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Knicks Morning News (2025.06.22)
06/22/2025 11:00:01
06/22/2025 10:30:00
06/22/2025 08:12:12
06/22/2025 03:59:00
06/22/2025 04:08:05
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06/22/2025 01:40:00
06/22/2025 00:04:07
06/22/2025 00:09:00
06/21/2025 23:50:55
204 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.22)”
This reminded me of Shawne “Extra E” Williams! 😀
Can they take it to 10 of 20 tonight? What do you say, Donnie?
“Julius Randle is a very similar player, and possibly better – and he rarely missed time, whereas Siakam was injured a bit during the the preceding years. It would have made no sense whatsoever.”
They are actually not all that similar, and the degree to which they are redundant is actually a good thing, in part because it would have made Randle even more expendable given his contract situation. Moreover, they are both all-NBA level players and you can’t have too many of them. The only knock on him is that he’s not a particularly good 3pt shooter, which he has in common with Randle.
As to injury concerns, in his last two full seasons in Toronto, Siakam led the league in minutes. He played 68 of 72 games (all-NBA), and then 71 of 82 (all-star.) Dollar for dollar, he’s a waaaay better player than OG.
Sorry Donnie, your boys are going down tonight.
OG’s CAA, Siakam isn’t. Both were pending UFA’s, both on the block as a consequence, both traded within weeks of each other, both from an Eastern Conference team to an Eastern Conference team.
The difference between the Knicks and Pacers as we sit here today is essentially the difference in the relative costs and relative impacts of OG and Siakam.
When one team has an owner who for whatever reason — probably his band — makes common cause with one single talent agency, which in turn leads to worse relationships with other talent agencies, and then hires as his senior personnel guy an alum of said talent agency with close family members still working there … and the other teams don’t do these things, it creates an inherent disadvantage that is going to be very difficult to overcome.
The OG/Knicks, Pacers/Siakam transactions and results are a sublimely distilled, chef’s kiss example of the principle. That it’s now clear to all that OG, advertised as “a guy who can guard 1 through 5,” really can’t guard Siakam is just an extra half chef’s kiss — a chef’s peck — on the whole episode.
Today is a great day to be a fan of NBA basketball.
Finals Game 7.
One game to decide the 2024-25 Championship.
I wish that the Knicks were playing.
I’m going to tune in.
I’ll tune in, but then TJ will make his requisite three-straight dribble-drive jump shots and I’ll go do something else for a while…
(it’s not even that I hate TJ or the Pacers anymore, it’s just annoying!)
Pascal Siakam shot .544 from 3-10 feet this year, and .441 from 10-16 feet.
He can shoot the basketball.
And it’s not just that he can shoot the basketball. The ability to do that is the direct result of and proxies other athletic and basketball skills that reveal themselves to a greater or lesser degree in other areas of his BB-ref page. Those athletic and basketball skills without question lead to helping win basketball games. (As it does with guys like Shai Gilgeous Alexander and Jalen Williams.)
We were there in 1994, and i hope we’ll be there again soon. 🧡💙
Who isn’t? Even i, that almost never watch games of other teams, am going to tune in.
And may the best team win.
TJ is one of those miracle players, like Brunson is. You have to love him. These a**holes have two exciting point guards, damnit.
Well, we’re waking up nightly to missile alerts here, hopefully the Iranians time it to align with the game this time, otherwise I’m taking the opportunity to sleep.
Nice piece on my hero Breen in the Athletic. Worth a read.
My prediction for tonight is that Hali puts up his usual every other game stinker, and walks off the court dramatically wincing in pain as the Pacers lose game 7.
Nothing left to extend, but nonetheless, The Extender deemed surplus to requirements for Game 7.
You are from Israel? Stay safe, man. 🙏
Thanks, yes. It’s insane all around here. But I won’t get into politics.
Nice piece on Breen. Like this quote from Stockton
“Whenever I hear someone in the role I had for over half a century, I can tell in seconds if the announcer is humble and not looking to prove something to the audience. Mike is one of those.”
I would take Siakam over Randolph because of defense. I also think the transition ability puts a lot of pressure on other teams.
Will of course watch. Still rooting for OKC but have been disappointed in them. They have gone away from what worked for them all season too much.
I have become a TJ admirer and think it would be great if he wins the MVP of the series. He would have to be the most unlikely MVP in memory, even more so than Iggy.
Come on, Z-man. I did a deep dive at the time of the trade on this very subject. If I had THCJ’s search chops I’d be able to find it, but in short:
He averaged 64 games played over the previous 4 seasons. Julius averaged 72. Advantage Julius.
He shot 33% from 3 with a 3PAr of only .247, below average even for a power forward. Julius shot 34%, at higher .301 3PAr. Not a huge difference, but advantage Julius.
Overall he had a .574% TS, again below league average for a power forward. Julius had a .561%. Advantage Siakam.
He averaged 7.7 rpg, pretty average. Julius averaged 9.7, which is good even for a power forward. Advantage Julius.
A very good 4.8 apg for power forward, offset by 2.5 TOs per game. 4.4 for Julius, with 3 TOs. Advantage Siakam.
AIO:
Siakam 2.6 VORP, 3.1 Julius
2.1 BPM , Julius 2
WS (4 years) 25.5, Julius 27.8
Beyond that, he was due for a contact extension; Julius was in the middle of a team-friendly deal.
The idea of trading for that player – deniably similar to Julius, and less available, in an era of limited resources is risible. Had you advocated for it, you would have deserved the opprobrium that would have come your way.
Or maybe you could have joined the prior front office, when they signed Portis, Randle, Morris, and Gibson in what was universally hailed as great management.
TL;dr — E agrees with you
OG Anunoby and Julius Randle played like 10 games together.
OG Anunoby played Julius Randle’s position the entire 2024-25 season.
Stay safe, darules!
Thibs getting cashiered has freed up Z-Man to say what he really thinks about Leon and his moves, and the roster generally. It’s been quite the sight to witness and he’s been doing excellent work. Like Hubert, he’ll now try to find some way to “create distance” from my posts so as to maintain perceived bona fides — but that won’t change the underlying core truths and overlaps.
Julius is better than OG. Not really seeing the need for comparisons with Pascal.
Sorry Donnie, your boys are going down tonight.
you obviously don’t know the first thing about donnie mechanics since this would violate the principle of superdispositon, where all possible loyalties immediately collapse to the winner when observed.
“He averaged 64 games played over the previous 4 seasons. Julius averaged 72. Advantage Julius.”
This is a disingenuous use of averaging, and I’m surprised you would even go there. Neither player had serious injury concerns during the preceding 3.5 years, and any advantage was random. If anything, OG was the guy with the checkered injury history, so if you want to go there, you are actually strengthening the case for picking Siakam over OG.
“He shot 33% from 3 with a 3PAr of only .247, below average even for a power forward. Julius shot 34%, at higher .301 3PAr. Not a huge difference, but advantage Julius.”
lol, this is actually a disadvantage for Julius, as he chose to shoot more from 3 in spite of being just as bad. And again, your averaging is bad practice, as during the two full seasons prior to the trade, Siakam shot .344 and .324 while Randle shot .308 and .343.
Randle is the better rebounder, but far worse as a passer and a lower IQ player, as we are seeing now with Siakam and saw point blank with Siakam.
I have no doubt that Siakam could have moved to the 3 next to Randle and made the team better than we were with OG at the 3, or even played the 4 next to Julius at the 5 in a small-ball lineup. He’s a far more skilled and versatile player (you know, one that can actually take 3 dribbles towards the rim in traffic without falling down, or getting stripped or blocked, or make a smart pass) than both Randle and OG, and he’s an excellent defender, not Julius’ strong suit.
PS Siakam is shooting 38+% from 3 at higher volume since joining the Pacers…who knew?
the thing that really jumps off the page about siakam is how much better his defense has looked in than it used to, including lots of playoff games with toronto and even his early days in indy. caitlin cooper has done a great job documenting this evolution during his pacer tenure.
It is not disingenuous to use a larger sample size. And your main point was
when in fact they are remarkably similar. Whether Julius is better is certainly disputable; whether it would have been a good idea to trade for a player who plays the same position and does similar things is not. Could Siakam play the 3? Maybe, but then we’d have had two players who aren’t great from distance, which clearly would not have complemented the game of Brunson, the player we chose to build around.
I can agree with this. But again, at the time we made the trade, what we knew was that he was not at that time a good defender. Kudos to him for his improvement! But to make any claims now about how he would have been a better trade target is pure hindsight.
Having little ability to dribble or navigate traffic inside the trifecta line doesn’t really “complement” anyone’s game, be it Jalen Brunson’s or anyone else’s.
“But to make any claims now about how he would have been a better trade target is pure hindsight.”
People said these things about OG at the time — a bunch of people just didn’t want to listen and plugged their ears.
All the stuff about how everyone wanted him was just echo chamber material from a few self-referential internet posts bounced around between people who really wanted to believe.
And he’s not RJ Barrett, so there was that ….
“Thibs getting cashiered has freed up Z-Man to say what he really thinks about Leon and his moves, and the roster generally. It’s been quite the sight to witness and he’s been doing excellent work. Like Hubert, he’ll now try to find some way to “create distance” from my posts so as to maintain perceived bona fides — but that won’t change the underlying core truths and overlaps.”
Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back, my posts about the Knicks players, coaches, and executives are the same as they always were. You and others have had the annoying and deeply offensive habit of dismissing anyone who had anything positive to say about Thibs, or Julius, or Leon as an unbridled apologist.
You are to shallow of an individual with whom to have an honest conversation. Your opinions on Leon, Julius, and Thibs are uniquely lacking in substance and nuance, they are just bluster with a veneer of schlocky lawyerese. Pretty much everyone here sees right through you, and probably elsewhere as well.
Keep telling it like it is, Z-Man. It’s good stuff.
“I can agree with this. But again, at the time we made the trade, what we knew was that he was not at that time a good defender. Kudos to him for his improvement! But to make any claims now about how he would have been a better trade target is pure hindsight.”
Siakam has always been a capable and versatile defender. Nothing he is doing with the Pacers is new or improved. He was a 2X all-star and 2X all-NBA player who was in his 3rd straight big minutes season playing most games. No hindsight is necessary to have known at the time that he was a steal at the price Indy paid for him.
IMO Siakam is lot better than Randle (at least the Pacer version). He’s not a ball stopper, he’s more consistent on defense and he’s less prone to brain farts under pressure. I’d way rather have Siakam.
One area where E and I have been in closer alignment than E and most other posters is I think RJ is generally underrated here. However, I think OG is a much better all-around player and contributor to winning basketball than RJ. That trade was well worth the price for many reasons, but hardly a steal. However, if it were straight up for RJ, it would definitely have been a massive heist.
But neither guy is close to as good Siakam. Pritchard saw an opportunity and jumped on it.
This is where we get into team building.
Julius has a wider range of skills than OG, but imo he’s not a more valuable player to a top team.
Being elite at a couple of things is what adds a lot of value. The goal is to build a team where your starting 5 covers all the essential skills at an elite overall level (2-3 elite scorers, spacers, rebounders, playmakers, defenders etc…). The more of it you have the better, but “jacks of all trades, masters of none” don’t add a lot of value to very good teams. They add more value to bad teams.
OG is an elite switchable defender, an excellent 3 point shooter when open, and excellent finisher on cuts. You can plug him into any very good team and he’s going to add more value than Julius and massively more than a guy like RJ who can also do things OG can’t do.
so now the rockets have traded for harden westbrook and kd
Foster, who has worked more Finals series (18) and games (26) than any of the 12 referees selected to officiate the series by the NBA, had been expected to be chosen to not only officiate this game but also likely to serve as its crew chief — the role he held for his lone appearance during these Finals in Game 4 in Indiana on June 13.
After a lot of online discussion — particularly among Pacers fans — about the officiating in that Thunder win and about Foster specifically, Indiana coach Rick Carlisle went out of his way to defend Foster prior to Game 5.
hmmm
If you want to defend RJ and Quickley the best way to do it is to acknowledge that both were young enough to continue improving when they were traded, both had a lot of injuries last year and Toronto was in all out tank mode last year. I would draw a line through the year. I think we’ll learn a lot more about both players this year (assuming better health) wherever they wind up.
durant to rockets for jalen green dillon brooks #10 pick in this years draft and five second rounders
There’s an “X” efficiency point gain that makes RJ clearly better than OG, and I’m fine saying he needs that. I’m also of the mind and always have been that RJ’s shooting mechanics — a skill!” — make it less likely, all else equal that he’ll gain those X number of points, whatever they are.
But Immanuel Quickley was a 3.2 OBPM player last year and makes the overall cost a complete overpay, particularly in light of what Indy paid for Siakim a couple weeks later.(*)
We’re also left in the uncomfortable position of wondering, given that the player is out-of-network, whether Leon even bothered inquiring about Siakim, if for no other reason than to try to tease out the real market for OG.
(*) Even one of the three ones they paid was the lesser of a bunch of teams’ ones, including OKC. It projected to convey in the very high 20s, and did convey at 29.
seems like a pretty fair trade…
until durant misses 50 games
I don’t want to knock Jalen Green’s long term potential, but based on his current contributions getting rid of him made the Rockets better even without getting Durant. lmao
The Suns are the new dumping ground for overrated players.
TO’s package was better (so was Minny’s) but once KD reiterated that he didn’t want to go to TO, Phoenix’s bluff about Minny and TO couldn’t and didn’t hold. Kind of a weak sauce bluff in the first instance, and I’m sure Rich Kleiman laughed it off, particularly since he’s been through this like four times now with KD.
If you’re of the mind, as I am, that some risk is going to have to be taken to get this team to the next level, Jalen Green is worth at least a very serious kick of the tires.
There are better options in his bucket, but all indications are that PHO wants to re-route him. That could have been part of the bluff and pre-trade machinations, though.
Nothing to apologize for, it’s been an amazing run and the Thunder are a great team. I’m hoping for a fun and entertaining game and maybe even a little more magic.
Really glad we stayed out of the Durant sweepstakes, trading KAT for him would have been as dumb as starting a war in the Middle East.
Wait, someone else thinks he’s a very good player at this stage? 😉
Stop trying to make RJ Barrett a thing
I think Phoenix made a terrible trade. Any other franchise and I’d have faith they can make another move to balance the roster. But now they have backed themselves into a corner and pretty much have to move Booker. LOL SUNS. I can’t imagine being a fan of a team that has to move forward with Beal at this stage of his career, Jalen Green, and Dillon Brooks as the best players. That’s awful. On the surface, it’s a good haul for a 36 year old Durant. But the implications of that trade spells even more doom for Phoenix- even if Beal retires. They can’t trade Beal without attaching a 1st, and they are a team of wings.
On the flipside of it, how can the Knicks take advantage of Phoenix’ tomfoolery? Who would we want to steal from them? Can we throw Bridges, KAT, and Dadiet their way for Book, Richards, Martin and cap filler. Someone like Micic if that would get the numbers close enough?
for the record we did not start the war in the middle east we just maybe stupidly got ourselves involved in it
Great get by Houston. They needed some better scorers and they got one.
durant scored almost 7 points per game more than jalen green
3.2 more per 36. The point?
because ebw specifically said that they need better scorers and they actually got worse in that department if scoring is going to be the measuring stick which i personally do not think it is
“You can plug him into any very good team and he’s going to add more value than Julius”
I think this is an absurd statement, especially after the season and playoffs Randle just had with Minny.
The only way OG adds more value is if you already have a Julius Randle on your team in the Julius Randle role. In other words, Randle + OG > Randle1 + Randle 2.
At least it makes sense for them to roll the dice on younger players.
as if the find your team on a million different streaming services wasn’t wild enough – the yanks are playing on “Roku” streaming channel…
which just happens to be one of the “free” TV channels that come with the tv…
go yanks on a Sunday morning…
thoughts and prayers are with yourself and your family darules 🙏
good move by houston…
what a dumpster fire in the valley of the sun…
devin booker would be a really valuable player to get a hold of if at all possible…
Booker’s in network and his salary matches with KAT’s.
“There’s an “X” efficiency point gain that makes RJ clearly better than OG, and I’m fine saying he needs that. I’m also of the mind and always have been that RJ’s shooting mechanics — a skill!” — make it less likely, all else equal that he’ll gain those X number of points, whatever they are.”
There’s an “X” efficiency point that makes Cam Reddish clearly better than SGA.
There’s an “X” efficiency point that makes DeJounte Murray better than Steph Curry.
“But Immanuel Quickley was a 3.2 OBPM player last year and makes the overall cost a complete overpay, particularly in light of what Indy paid for Siakim a couple weeks later.”
I agree that IQ is the player that will determine in hindsight whether OG was an overpay. But IQ at $32M doesn’t seem like a bargain, and he has kinda sucked since signing that deal. Still think we needed OG more than we needed either IQ or RJ, and that given the salaries involved it was at worst a wash.
Jalen Green is also in-network. Unlike RJ, he doesn’t have the shooting mechanics issue; he just takes a lot of stupid shots. He’s at 27.3 USG, so he has significant slack in which to clean that up and still be a very, very good player. He’s uber-athletic and very skilled, creative and on-balance and agile with and without the ball in traffic (among other skills).
He also upped his trifecta percentage to an acceptable .354 last year, and the OBPM trended up from 0.4 to 1.1. His needle is on an upward trajectory, but obviously needs to uptrend more.
Devin Booker is the KAT of the shooting guard position. Hard no for me.
Jalen Green’s $33M extension kicks in this year. I could see him in sort of the Ben Mathurin role on our team, but not at that price. Maybe he improves, maybe he doesn’t, but let some other team find out.
I’d love to get Matheson on this team, but Indy would likely never trade him to such a close competitor.
The Knicks have a skill and creativity deficit. It’s probably their biggest problem. They should try to fill it with risky, younger guys in a trade that could turn out down the road to look like a steal. It’ll probably never happen with Leon/Dolan, but they need to get out of the “pay retail-plus for already-established guys” business. The “trade the entire asset chest for the OG Anunobys, Josh Harts, and Mikal Bridgeses of the world” is well past its sell-by date.
KAT is a very unique player/piece in the nba, you don’t get a KAT just to flip it a season later…
paul goldschmidt, age 57 goes in the the game late as a PINCH RUNNER…
jazz does some jazzy stuff and sends a ball to the wall in the gap and paul scores all the way from first in a close play at the plate…way to get a sunday going…
Jazz Rizzholm.
Jalen Green’s efficiency doesn’t look all that impressive at first glance, but he is creating his own shot a very high percentage of the time: only 26% of his 2pt makes and a very low 53% of his 3pt makes were assisted. Mathurin’s assisted basket percentage on 2pt shots is double what Green’s is.
He’s only 22, so if he had an efficiency bump then you’re looking at a guy with league average efficiency who creates his own shot 75% of the time, and that has value.
Jalen Green is fun and has some plausible upside, it’s not a bad return for KD, who pretty clearly doesn’t have much value at this point. Phoenix is in better than nothing mode
Never been a Jalen Green guy. Maybe he figures it out.
PHX has $140M locked up in the SG position. Assuming it’s 100% that Beal picks up his option, they’re stuck with him, waiving and stretching him would be suicide unless they are totally going into tank mode for the next 5 years. That is one fugly cap sheet!
“He’s only 22…”
Actually 23, will turn 24 in February. He’s young enough to get it together, and it seems like Houston should have kept him around.
Houston may have improved on paper, but they seem like a clunky, wing-PF-heavy team.
The point is where they were two years ago, which was not the same place as today. Their numbers were, as demonstrated, very close. The “ball stopper” and “brain fart” issues show up in the very minor difference in assists and TOs. Very minor. And Julius rated better on D, though obviously those metrics suck so who knows. But 2 rebounds better per game is statistically significant.
The thing that’s laughable about this is that I was the only one here posting about Siakam at the time. I decided (for myself) that the delta between him and Julius was small and Julius had (at that time) been healthier, so Siakam did not make as much sense as OG. But at least I was talking about it – all the people on the bandwagon now are purely hindsight champions.
If I’m Phoenix, I move Booker for picks and eat the Beal contract unless someone is dumb enough to take him off my hands. Maybe he has a bounce back season and you get some for him later.
It sucks seeing a situation where I team should trade it’s franchise star, but they’re shooting themselves in the foot if they don’t cash in.
No idea why we’re arguing about Siakam vs Randle. Siakam is clearly better on defense and a better shooter today. On Toronto he wasn’t nearly as good on defense or as a shooter, though I’m sure he was still better than Randle.
Either way, paying multiple 1sts to add Siakam to Randle would be really dumb. Upgrading from RJ, worst high-volume 10-16ft shooter in the association, was a good idea.
RJ shot .542 from 10-16 this season, less than half his twos assisted, but in any event upgrading him into Siakam would have been a better idea than upgrading (*) him into OG.
(*) Or, depending on one’s preference, “upgrading.”
He would have had more value if he hadn’t made clear that he only wanted to go to one of three teams (Houston, San Antonio, Miami). Toronto and Minnesota both would have given up more for him. How much more? I don’t know.
re: OG vs Siakam:
Two things:
1) That January team was unbelivable (parts greater than whole same as Indiana) and would have been in the finals this year. Injuries + i-Hart leaving ruined everything.
2) If Siakam was soo good and had so much value at the time, how come Ujiri didn’t get more for him?
Both life and markets are all about timing. After we got our guy, no one had any interest in paying market price for Siakam. Timing is everything. Its not a rational or a lienar type thing. People who haven’t made a ton of trade deals don’t undestand this. I used to buy and sell cars, – only reason why I get it. Leon did well and if game one broke diferently, this would not be a conversation topic.
Ps. There was only one team possible and credible threats to OG and iHart (OKC and Philly). We lost one and had to overpay for the other. If there was another more established center available in free agency, Presti doesn’t overpay i-Hart. Both players are making ~ $10m each year extra due to perfect timing.
The Thunder are already 0-1 in finals elimination games this year, fwiw
so, what is the donnie pacers’ fan viewing experience set to be this evening?
solo viewing or a pacers’ party?
“so now the rockets have traded for harden westbrook and kd”
“You are from Israel? Stay safe, man”
“Thanks, yes. It’s insane all around here. But I won’t get into politics.”
Everything good about this blog in a nutshell.
One more thought on the Durant trade- in theory KD is a good get for Houston. But…wowsers! They will now be relying on a goin on 37 year old Durant who’s been injury prone of late to be their top option on offense. As great as Udoka is as a coach, they might just take a step back too. Especially with the West having as many playoff worthy teams as they have. Yikes
I said
“You can plug him (OG) into any very good team and he’s going to add more value than Julius”
You made my point in a different way.
OG is an elite 3&D or what I would call a 3&D+ (elite switchable defense, excellent spacing, finishing on cuts and transition and maybe more). He’s the perfect piece on almost any very good team because you can’t have too much of why he adds. You’ll need to find your #1 and #2 elsewhere, but if you are already very good you already have at least your #1.
Put another way, if I took over a team, was going to rebuild hybrid and my goal was to win a championship within 3-5 years, I would add OG over Randle. I would be satsified that I had one position covered with elite skills.
If I took over a team, was going to rebuild hybrid and my goal was to win a championship within 3-5 years, I would not be interested in Randle. He’s not efficient enough scorer to be my #1 or #2, has inconsistent effort and defense, is a ball stopper. There are no elite skills.
The only time I’d be interested in Randle over OG is if my team was bad, I needed almost everything and my goal was to win some more games now and put fans in the seat.
You are probably right.
There was no point in their careers that I wouldn’t take Siakam over Randle. I’d do so with extreme ethusiasm. Keep in mind, when Randle was here I expressed frustration with him from time to time, but I was also a big defender of his when things were going badly and other people thought we had to attach a pick to get rid of him and his shit contract.
I’m not going to use boxscore stats defend my position because I agree they “look” similar based on boxcore at times, but imo Siakam always been a better and more consistent defender, was never a ball stopper and played a better brand of basketball. IMO, he had a much bigger impact on winning that is not captured by AIO or boxscore stats.
long read but very very good.
https://x.com/TheStrickland/status/1935405428357120366
You don’t “pin down” the niche skills position until you have an excess of skills and the Knicks don’t have that, in large measure because they traded for OG and Mikal.
Skills are far tougher to acquire and far more valuable than niche.
And it doesn’t really matter if there’s a theoretical world where you’d take Randle and OG over Randle 1 and Randle 2 (*), because there’s no world in which you’d ever take OG 1 and OG 2 over Randle 1 and Randle 2.
This is just more fuzzy, unfalsifiable stuff around OG’s “intangibles” and “doing winning things.”
(*) I agree that there probably is, but that’s a world with a team possessing far more skills up and down the roster than the Knicks possess.
Even the “elite” defensive label is very much unproven. He’s played on one top 10 defense — 10th three years ago — since Covid, and his teams’ ability to reduce threes and depress three percentages have been bottom third consistently since then. He hasn’t moved the Knicks’ defensive needle really at all and they aren’t even close to as good defensively playoff-wise as they were two years ago.
OG’s been failed and let down by a *lot* of players in the last six years. JB and KAT, the most recent “offenders,” have a whole lot of company.
“Either way, paying multiple 1sts to add Siakam to Randle would be really dumb.”
Right, it was much smarter to pay 5 unprotected firsts and a pick swap for Bridges.
Really, one of the dumbest arguments made over my 60 years of being a basketball fan is that all-NBA players in their primes who are similar are redundant. It wasn’t true when The Knicks acquired Earl Monroe, or when the Spurs drafted Tim Duncan, or any other time it has happened. Siakam is a versatile player who could slot in next to anyone.
And it would not have cost multiple unprotected first. The price for Siakam was about the same as the price for OG. The reason that the price wasn’t higher is because he was about to be an UFA and was largely viewed as a rental.
And the reason no one was talking about it is because no one believed that any deal with Toronto was possible until it was made, due to the historical animosity between Dolan and the Raptors, as well as the intellectual property lawsuit that was pending.
There is no reason to believe that Ujiri would not have taken the same price for Siakam as he did for OG…maybe a legit unprotected first instead of the one we included. But do folks actually believe we were better with OG and Randle than we would have been with Siakam and Randle, assuming Siakam would have extended on the same contract? Sorry, I’m not buying it.
The Raps had Kawhi, an elite defender, in 2019 and then Marc Gasol, an elite defender, (*) in 2020 when the Raps ranked two overall in D. Then after they lost Gasol in that offseason, the defense went down the tubes and stayed there every year thereafter.
They drafted Barnes, a long and good defender (**), and had a slight bounce up to 10th in 2022 (they also had FVV and Siakam) and then it was back down the rankings in 2023 and 2024 and then the Raps finally threw in the towel on the nucleus that should have been significantly better.(****)
OG got here and the team had a nice bounce (***) for a spell, including on the defensive end, and then the playoff defense wasn’t all that great — nowhere near ’23 — and then the defense took yet another step back this year even in the wake of the acquisition of another wing with an excellent defensive reputation.
So notwithstanding all the noise, just not really all that much there. Certainly nothing even close to justify sacrificing overall skill for.
(*) Albeit near the end of the line.
(**) In part, almost assuredly, to try to get the defense overall and on the wing back up to snuff.
(***) As they did when they moved Deuce and Jericho into the lineup in the wake of The Cam Hangover game, and as they did after they acquired Josh Hart.
(****) There’s really no sense in which OG had the “fit tool” in Toronto. The looks pretty good on paper nucleus underachieved and they spent the fourth pick overall on a dude that played his position. In fact, the idea of “fit” based on what happened in TO is kinda laughable.
From pregame presser
Pacers Coach Rick Carlisle opens his pregame presser: “I just saw a video that’s probably going to go viral, with open-top buses presumably for the parade, already painted with them as champions. So that’s what I’m thinking about right now.” (Video from @JayHardy252)
Oh, that’s good.
Another day another pointless debate about some theoretical way we could have done something better. So tired of these debates. We get it. You’re all smarter than Leon!
We had an all NBA power forward. We didn’t need to trade for another one.
David Robinson was getting g near the end of his career and coming off an injury. Tim Duncan was the consensus number one pick regarded as a future franchise player. They are not similar situations at all.
Matheson got an assist!
Fun fact: Only twice this postseason the Pacers were held to 100 pts or below and both times came against the horrible, you have to blow up their core Knicks.
Early minutes for Obi.
They just showed me on the jumbotron at the Gainbridge viewing party wearing my harvest-gold onesie.
Hopefully that’s not Hali’s Achilles. Always the danger with calf strains.
oh come on no
man that did not look good
I guess now the Knicks a lock for the 1st seed next season…
Just wanted to see the best battle the best in a Game 7. Nice things, can’t have.
Stage is set for tj to lock down the mvp
Well, if SGA tears his Achilles we’re the favorites to win it all next season
Feel bad on a human level for Hali but I’m still calling him overrated forever if McConnell brings it home
S***t
ngl the Knicks halfcourt offense is way better than whatever shit OKC is doing
OKC has realized they have to out-Tj TJ
that’s just rotten…a lot of credit to him for playing on it when that was the exact thing that could’ve gone wrong…ouch…
pacers aren’t done yet…
Just to be clear, Siakam is a versatile wing who slots in at PF. He could easily play SF with his skillset. Julius could not.
Well if OKC keeps missing FTs they will keep the Pacers in it.
you are such the tease donnie…good luck tonight 😊
Cleveland is going to be back next season. They are more likely to keep the team together (even above second apron) with Tatum & Haliburton unlikely to play next season.
Indy shooting 54% from 3, OKC 22% lmao. Put Isaiah Joe in
OKC playing tight.
We discussed OKC getting lots of turnovers that make their offense go. They are doing it tonight
Refs letting OKC perimeter defenders get away with murder.
Agree on refs. OKC offense does look bad
lol TJ is unstoppable
OKC is so unimpressive sometimes
game 7, you won 68 games, your 50 win opponent lost it’s best player, and you have no idea what you’re doing on offense
Just saw the Hali news. Not like this…
Jaylen Williams playing scared …
It’s still a close game, but the Hali news took a lot of the air out of the game, especially the way he started.
IHart does something.
Can’t figure out why OKC can’t get it together
—
Damn. Achilles for Hali … Damn. Tatum and Hali my missing big time next year
Considering the circumstances if OKC loses this game they’re the biggest frauds in NBA history.
If OKC somehow loses this game, worst loss and worst series loss in NBA history?
Three Achilles tears in the playoffs. Lillard, Tatum and Haliburton … All wear the number Zero. Wow, Ban that # !!!
OKC 4-18 from downtown.
Delon Wright defied the odds.
24 more minutes of magic, that is all.
Bennedict wears 00, he’s safe right?
Excellent. It covered all the reasons firing Thibs was the right decision given how he coached this season. Now they just have to make the right decision for who is next.
Knicks new strategy for next year is to hope every star player in the east tears an Achilles.
Quite a finish from Jalen
Indiana better be careful here.
Thou shalt not make the choke gesture on an opposing team’s court
OKC just remembered you’re allowed to make 3s
Team they have been all season just poked its head out of the hole it’s been hiding in
OKC has a bit of a head of steam right now.
Can’t stop TJ
It’s unreal
Nope…can only hope to contain him
Heroic performance by McConnell
Quick lil bastard
The TJ show
TJ Barea at it again…
OKC’s got the turnover offense going in the third.
Pacers should enjoy the moment, they might not be back here for a long time
I was about to say why the hell is Bradley in there for Indiana.
TOs killing the Pacers
Maybe, but its the East
TJ committed a few bad turnovers too tbf and one hospital pass that resulted in another one
Announcers seem pretty convinced that J-Dub has a bad shooting wrist.
Looks like this will be the 2nd time in these playoffs that a team will hold Indiana below 100 pts.
“Don’t turn the ball over” is a lot easier said than done, this is a world class defense the Thunder are putting out there.
Easy to hold them under 100 when the star PG gets injured
TJ McJordan is great and all, but Siakam has to decide that he, too, would like to be Finals MVP, or else neither of them are going to get it.
Yeah, Pascal needs to make my buddy some cash
Obi scoreless so far tonight…
Nearing the end.
Obi without Hali = Bum?
Vice is tightening. They have done it so many times but not without Hali
Well…indy did themselves proud…unless they really have one more miracle left
Obi’s performance is more about Hali’s HOF case than Thibs’ folly
Chet finally showing up
That should do it
OKC finally got their flying turnover death machine working
Gotta admit, the Thunder are playing this half a lot better. Unbelievable defensive show.
The ‘92 Dream Team would struggle to score on this.
It’s like Adam S. Called OKC and told em:
Now you can start playing!
When the Celts acquired KP and Jrue, I kinda felt that a championship season was inevitable. This offseason I sort of felt the same way with OKC picking up iHart and Caruso.
“The ‘92 Dream Team would struggle to score on this.”
Let’s not get crazy.
The OKC turnover-based blitzkriegs are very impressive, no question about it.
Against OKC the 1992 Dream Team would probably grab every offensive reb available to them.
McConnell is a freaking maniac (in a good way)
TJ got injured?
Maybe hold off on the confetti for a couple more minutes?
PS that was a terrible shot by SGA
Never say never. No quit in the Pacers
The B in Benedict is for bucket
Double-double for Matheson.
So maybe I’m still seeing things, but anyone watch this later on, at ~ 6 minutes, when Dort is taking those foul shots, I swear Mathurin patted Dort’s cheek when he walked by.
Certainly created some kind of minor kerfuffle with the refs.
Wtf are Doris and Jefferson talking about? That’s never a travel in the NBA.
They grew up together.
SGA going iso over and over again while bricking shot after shot
Lu Dort wow
Lu Dort is Josh Hart on steroids
Obi going to finish this game stuck on zero
On the bright side at this time next year we’ll finally be celebrating a Knicks championship!
People saying Obi put up a zero are haters, he had 2 rebounds an assist and 3 turnovers in 20 minutes
And after all that seven turnovers for TJ
Congrats to IHart. I guess he’s the reason I wanted this for OKC. Well deserved.
Well Hali’s stupid MSG villain schtick and Reggie Miller’s legacy definitely had me rooting hard for the Thunder, but I give the Pacers a ton of credit, they played the right way and left it all on the floor. Really entertaining series. Congrats to Sam Presti, took a couple of decades but he finally got it done, and again, the right way.
I would never root for an injury, but I can’t complain about it benefiting the Knicks.
SGA finishes the finals with a 56 TS
Came up one half short, a great run though. OKC defense is championship quality, they deserve everything they get during this potential dynasty. Too bad Hali couldn’t have limped out of the tunnel.
Shai and J-Will were 15-47 and they won pretty easily, that’s wild. I think Indy actually wins if Hali doesn’t get hurt. He played 6 minutes and lead both teams in made 3s
Congrats to OKC. While I’d pump the breaks on a dynasty talk, their elite defense and Shai will always have them in the mix. Their offense needs a lot of work. Their offseason acquisitions of Caruso and iHart (why couldn’t you stay in NY brother man?) were so key.
As for the Pacers, I’m a bitter Knicks fan so hard to give them their props but it was an insane run… one of those runs you HAVE to take advantage of. Miracle wins, players playing our of their minds, injuries and inept coaching from opponents…you don’t win then than a hard time getting this close again.
No comment on Hali injury except second straight playoff with leg injuries… approaching injury-prone/can he stay healthy the whole year status
Yeah, it appears OKC struggles if you don’t turn the ball over and Hali is amazing at that.
Credit to him for playing hurt. Probably shouldnt have been out there.
Honestly I thought Indy’s defense was excellent in this series, they played just as hard on defense if not harder but just didn’t have the same quality of defensive personnel.
Hali with the epic choke job
Must be tough for Pacers fans you get injury luck, crazy late game heroics, all sorts of flukey shots going in, you play great against OKC, you start to believe holy shit it’s actually real we’re going to do it and then Hali tears his achilles and it’s over. Just brutal.
Touching to see iHart with his kids up on the podium.
But you know what? The ‘96 Bulls this OKC team isn’t. After that Strickland article, I’m even more convinced: Let’s get the right coach to unlock our boys’ true potential, and let’s win the whole fucking thing next season.
I wonder if there’s an E on thunderblogger who has been hating on presti for the last 15 years for being stuck in the mezzanine
I love how the analysts are assuming Hali was gonna have a monster game based on a half of a quarter
With this championship, I think OKC keeps this core together. They might trade some of their bench depth, but they are not likely to cash in their draft picks to bring in another big star.
So does OKC use their picks on players who might be competent right away or do they go for projects who need a lot of development?