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132 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.13)”
very elegant solution to the like button overtaking the screen thank you oh wait now it changed back to the thumbs up being there regardless at the end of the day yesterday that was not there only numbers were there and it was not nearly as flamboyant
I cannot wait until Kevin Durant is finally traded to another team so we can be saved from the inevitable deluge of “The Knicks should trade for Kevin Durant!” “This trade would send Kevin Durant to the Knicks,” “A great trade for the Knicks to acquire Kevin Durant would be…” articles.
I am starting to think Leon won’t be able to pass up KD and that KD won’t be able to pass up the Knicks.
Assuming we are able to keep KAT, a trade would probably be something like OG, Mitch, signed #50 pick to make the math work, and any other possible picks. That leaves a lineup of:
Brunson
Hart
Mikal
KD
KAT
with a bench of:
Deuce
Hukporti
Kolek
Dadiet
Shamet?
Tucker?
I assume they’d have to move some/all of the rookies to get more bench help. Also, if they do go for KD, they’ll probably decide to go all in and blow by the 2nd apron to get extra help. I’m not sure how much they could spend there, but it’s a possible route.
Clearly I’m not in favor of this, but it’s good to brace oneself for anything that could happen.
I’m simultaneously not in favor of it while accepting this may be the best move Leon has left after squandering all his assets.
Honestly what’s more likely to get us over the hump: 2-3 seasons of Kevin Durant or the TPMLE + the 50th pick?
It’s not like you can trade OG & Mitch for a different potential 7.0 BPM player. Only extreme circumstances put this in play.
(It’s unclear if Durant actually wants to play here, though; most of the scuttle right now is about San Antonio and that makes more sense for him.)
Yeah, that was part of my thought process too, Hubie:
– Leon doesn’t have the OKC route available anymore (pick stash is long gone)
– He has a few good role players but they are overpaid (OG)
– His main guys are already close to 30 yrs old
– KD could conceivably state he’ll only re-sign with NYK
So the “3 Star” model that now seems somewhat outdated might be Leon’s best/only play.
Do the Suns want some of these packages that we’re discussing? I guess you could do a lot worse than:
Booker- Beal-Grayson Allen-OG-Nick Richards with a bench of Tyus Jones, Mitch, Ryan Dunn, Royce O’Neale, and Collin Gillespie
Still probably a play-in team.
That said, his current group did pretty well this year, so he may want to roll the dice on a new coach for one year and then look for another star in the 26-27 season (although “waiting” doesn’t feel very Leon).
I don’t love it for a couple reasons:
1. Durant thrives in the mid range space Mikal wants to occupy. Mikal would obviously have to cede this to Durant, which will marginalize him even further.
2. We still have the Josh Hart problem. And in doing a 2-for-1 we’d have an even greater need to play him heavy minutes.
In the end we have better players but the fit is still suboptimal so you probably still have to explore trades for Hart or Bridges. And that’s more massive upheaval. Although I guess we have massive upheaval 2-3 times a year now so we should be used to it.
If you could somehow make it work with Bridges and Hart instead of OG & Mitch it’s a different story but there’s only so much Aller magic.
Two thoughts re: Durant.
1. No fucking way.
2. Maybe they would want Bridges instead of OG and we could do a sign and trade where Bridges gets a new contract extension? He did play for Phoenix before and had great success there.
3. I’m of the opinion that if you do get Durant (again, no fucking way), it would be best to trade them KAT straight up.
Then you start Mitch at the 5, Durant at the 4, OG at the 3 and Mikal at the 2.
Hart moves to the bench. This route requires you to get an upgrade at back up center over Huk/Precious because you can’t rely on Mitch to play starter’s minutes for a full season. So Leon would need to recreate the mitch/iHart Center tandem but IMO, this is a much easier task to do with a vet minimum or mini-mid level to spend on a back up center.
I guess that was actually 3 thoughts.
i hate hate hate hate hate hate it both for what is coming in and what would be going out i do not want to lose either og or mitch i could live with losing mikal i really kind of wish that we would stop even discussing it i cannot help but feel that we are speaking it into existence please please please please please let us not do that
i like kat but would not mind losing him it is not seeming to work i like deuce starting and i like hart as super bench leader what is not being said is that kd makes 55 million dollars and might want an extension hardest of hard nos
KAT for Durant is nuts, though.
Run it back, add a vet or two to the bench, and see what a new coach can do with this group (and that includes Kolek et al). If they still can’t get over the hump, attempt bigger changes next summer, when we’ll have more assets to begin with.
#startbrunsondeuceoggiannismitch #benchhartmikaldelonkolekhuk
everyone else can go to get giannis with kat leading the way
If the Knicks make that trade I’m done with this team. I’m already coming around the opinion that Rose is not any good, but that would cinch it.
You’ll be back
much like pagucci who has posted 99 times since his likely last post
For who? I’m just curious.
KAT is in his prime. Give Phoenix a perrenial all-star in his prime to pair with Booker. Honestly KAT and Booker is a VERY nice 1-2 bunch. Put 3 defensive players around those 2 and you’ve got a nice starting 5.
I would almost say we should receive some compensation with a pick if we did that deal because we’re shortening our window considerably. We give KAT a hard time but dude has just been to the Conference Finals as the #2 option on 2 different teams 2 years in a row.
I agree with all 3 thoughts.
The issues here are defense (Towns/Brunson pairing), offense (Towns/Hart pairing) and rebounding if you take Hart out of the starting lineup.
There are multiple paths to fixing the lineup issues (all difficult), but you can’t trade your two best defenders for a 37 year old scorer that will probably miss 15-20 games.
Happy Friday around here. Jesus.
I’m actually at peace w Rose right now and the coach search. He knows there is nothing to be gained by speaking to the media. They’ll just twist his words. He’s throwing smoke screens on reaching out to all these guys under contract except for Kidd. And he’s got a pretty decent lineup of assistants and re-hires to choose from. And he’s the only game in town w a pretty nice vacancy.
I’d trade Bridges in a KD deal if they could make the math work. No on OG. No on KAT. Ps: whoever said KD is a potential 7 BPM guy is living in 2019. He’s a 3.
And yes, I dod not want Durant either!
My ideal off season is we get a new coach who is more creative with the offense, line-ups, plays younger players more, etc…and then we shore up the bench and run it back. Keep it simple for now and see if we can take the next step with continuity, an improved bench and a new coach.
If the final move on the chess board is “get Kevin Durant and hope he is able to hold off steep decline for a few more years,” that doesn’t seem great. At that point you’re racing against time until Durant’s wheels fall off.
Kind of an anxiety-inducing proposition. Durant has already declined from a 7.0 BPM player to a 3.2 BPM player. Rebound and assist rates were at a career low last year. You’d be buying his age 37-39 seasons, where a further decline is exponentially more likely than a return to 7 BPM territory. Seems kind of dumb to put all of the chips into a “stars and scrubs” strategy when maybe only one of the “stars” is a top 20 player in the league.
if leon is really trying to get kidd why would he be telegraphing it most every other big thing he does seems pretty much out of the blue because he is so tight lipped
It’s Kidd doing the telegraphing. Very Jason Kidd of him. You want self-serving drama, he’s your dude.
KD may is a dick and an old one to be more precise but i prefer Him & DDV over Kat’s lazy ass
Idk how the fuck can we get these two for Kat but i’d prefer it over any other move not involving Freak
I don’t know, after seeing how PG blew up in Philly’s faces, I really don’t want us getting into the “let’s go all in on someone who is more than 35 years old business.”
I also don’t think KAT is “lazy.” He commits dumb fouls and often when he drives to the hoop and scores in a crazy way, he falls down and if a foul isn’t called the other team (aka The Pacers) can run down and have a 5-4 advantage because he’s a big dude and it takes him a second to get back up. I don’t think that is lazy. Those drives are amazing and he scores on them at a really high clip, but IMO, a lot of them were the result of him having to create something because our offense was so stagnant.
I’d love having Kat as a teammate on a 3×3 pick up HALF court game before going to eat burgers afterwards but i prefer having KD(ick) while hunting a chip
The 3Ks!
Me Kat and KKnox!
Try to beat us b****s!!
I wouldn’t love a KD trade, but idk if you can identify him as a 3 bpm guy based on one ridic Phoenix year. If you put him back into Golden State’s lineup, he’d surely be closer to 7 bpm again.
I just saw a report that KD prefers to go to a Texas team anyway, so maybe we’ve dodged that bullet…
KD is an all time great (despite being a dick) and We’re an inch away from a chip.
Kat is nowhere near despite being slightly more valuable due to his age and his Offensive stats.
I’m definitely in on a “good” KD trade
Dear Leon, RUN IT BACK. Get a new coach that can install a more player and ball movement focused offense, has the ability and willingness to adjust in game as needed, can build an aggressive, defensive scheme that generates turnovers, and limits 3Ps that complements our talent (Towns in drop is not it), and can build rapport and motivate our guys to perform at the highest level. The coach also needs to invest in our young guys and assess how good they really are. He doesn’t have to be the biggest name – if that’s Johnnie Byrant, fine – just pick someone based on who maps to these skill-sets.
Fix the starting line up – install Deuce or Shamet as the 2 guard to create a true 5-out, 3P shooting offense, and bring Hart off the bench. It likely needs to be Deuce b/c I trust him the most to dribble and that’s saying something lol –> see need for more ball handling.
Build out the bench – we need more shooting and playmaking off the bench (strong dribbler/passer).
Durant is 37 and had a 4.0 BPM two years ago, 3.2 BPM last year while missing about a quarter of the season.
Decline phases are real, they exist. Pretty impressive to still put up 3.2 at that age but there’s a substantial risk it could decline further.
I might retire and come back again if it gets me more adoring fans like you, Doogie
Was an all time great. KAT is better than him now and will be for the rest of their lives.
I think that there is an argument to be made for swapping KAT + min for KD. It is not a knock-down argument, but I think it’s a less bad idea than many here think.
1. KD and KAT are approximately equivalent players right now, but KD is a better fit on both offense and defense than KAT. There is downside risk with KD that there isn’t with KAT, but I think this looks much less bad once one keeps in mind 2. and 3.
2. KAT is simply unplayable at the 5 in the playoffs. You cannot have a center that bad on defense and win a championship. Full stop. So, it’s either KAT at the 4, which is likely worse offensively and defensively than Durant at the 4, or we try to win a chip in with one of the ten worst defenders in the league at the most important defensive position.
3. KD is on an expiring. This means a ton of cap space will free up over the next two years. One should think of the trade not as KD for KAT straight up, but KD and a much cleaner cap for KAT. That is a much more even value proposition, contingent on two things: it being true that KAT is unplayable at the 5 in the playoffs, and there being free agents in the next few years that together can make up for the delta of losing KAT/KD. I think both of those things are plausible. Given this, one shouldn’t think of this trade as making us better–it’s rather making a lateral move that allows us to repair our short-term cap, which gives us needed flexibility if one doesn’t think we have what it takes to win it all as currently constructed.
We should not trade KD for OG and Mitch. We would turn out worse, not better. The only trade that even remotely works for both parties, in my view, is KD for KAT and retooling. If we’re not going to do a version of that trade, we should stand pat and roll the dice one more time with this squad.
If you fire the coach because he’s not getting what he should out of this team that you think is championship caliber wouldn’t it make more sense to keep it mostly the same and get a new coach?
What johnlocke said.
I don’t think you can treat KD like an expiring. He’s going to demand a (terrible) extension from anybody who trades for him.
I guess you don’t have to give him the extension and can still trade for him, but then you have to deal with an attitude problem version of Kevin Durant.
Still give me KD
Unless he fucks up the locker room
Doubt this happens, but I wonder if Orlando would be willing to trade with us. Getting Johnathan Isaac + some other dudes for KAT could be interesting. They do also have center depth to spare – we’d likely be able to get Wendell Carter or Goga back in that deal.
Yes
Dear lord, I can’t deal with headlines like this on a Friday:
i could care less about isaac but i could certainly be happy about wcj or goga plus spare parts for kat we could use a pf who can shoot 3s so that we can move hart to anchor the bench they can maybe have mikal too if it gets us better spare parts do not know if it is possible to split up the wagner brothers but mo is not bad
Here’s a neat magic trick that is easy to do in 4 simple steps
-Go to ESPN.com
-Click MLB
-Click Standings
-Click Overall
And Voila The Mets are on top
Wow that makes no more sense for any of those teams than it does for us
It would be nuts for us to do that, Swift.
I am of the opinion that Durant likely has two elite seasons left, and a third one that will probably still be very good. But the age gap is too much. Phoenix isn’t going to get anything close to a player like KAT for KD.
which is why if we are stupid enough to do it we have to insist on also getting nick richards ryan dunn oso ighodaro mason plumlee not all of them but probably two of them i would prefer plumlee and dunn or richards and dunn
Sing it one more time:
🎵 PHOENIX CAN’T CONSOLIDATE IN A TRADE BECAUSE THEY’RE OVER THE 2ND APRON 🎵
then definitely do not do it i was thinking three team trade but probably impossible to pull off given kd salary of 55M it would probably have to be a four team trade quite honestly
a sure sign that some new york knickerbocker progress is occurring…
i don’t think KD moves the needle enough to give the heat anything but a play-in appearance…
the t-wolves may be a great fit – if they can get rid of mike connelly as their starting point guard (one old guy in the rotation is more than enough), and use julius to make the deal work…
houston may work even better, not sure who beyond jalen green they’d be sending out…
both of those teams though would be championship contenders to start the season…
The Heat, Timberwolves or Rockets do not have a better player than KaT they are willing to trade. I also don’t think our front office is interested in trading KaT for KD.
I’m with Silky/Alecto on this – the only trade that makes sense is KAT for KD, and it’s similar to the Julius/DDV for KAT move where it may make us marginally better, comes with some risk, and is ultimately best seen as a cap move. I wouldn’t love it, but wouldn’t be radically vs it either. I can see KD returning to a 4 BPM, I could see us not guaranteeing him an extension, I could see Aller & crew figuring out how to make good use of that potential cap space.
How can this be the case when his last elite season was 2022-23?
That was the last time he was measurably better than Towns. Banking on a breakout season at 37 isn’t a great bet…
Also, how does KD measurably benefit our cap? We’d still not have nearly enough room to add a quality FA, so aren’t we better off being as close to the hard cap as possible?
I am in the JohnLocke camp. Boston game 6, championship level effort and result after a players only meeting. Get the NBA proven coach who nails the interview by saying how this roster, or specific changes to the roster gets them to the finals. No platitudes, but particulars.
Going back to Durant’s first season in Brooklyn (age-32), his BPM has been 7.2, 7.2, 7.1, 4.0, 3.2.
3.2 is still good, it would have been 3rd after KAT and Brunson among Knicks with more than 2k minutes.
What I don’t like about that 3.2 is the trend, and the fact that he put up -0.7 DBPM to get there. That -0.7 total would have been the 3rd worst DBPM among Knicks with real minutes after -1.3 Brunson (oof) and -0.9 Mikal (an even bigger oof).
Durant for KAT makes us too thin at C. Even if you don’t like KAT at C, going into the season with Mitch + Huk + dirt cheap 3rd C does not strike me as a formula for success. If there’s a second trade for a C, then *maybe* I could buy in.
KD worries me a lot.
Kevin Durant had the same bpm as Brunson this year.
Outliers aren’t like normal players.
We had this same argument back in 2019 when you guys didn’t want to trade for Chris Paul.
there should be a bunch of information to be gained by listening to some of the more experienced/championship coaches explain how they would best utilize our roster…
also firmly in the camp of run it back, with our top 7…bring back delon, commit to huk as backup center, and find a backup four…
great value contract with deuce and jalen…good value with josh and mitch (if he can play)…even value on the KAT and OG contracts…
let’s hope mikal doesn’t get much more than a mid 30’s million type annual salary…
keep building on player continuity, get a new voice with rotations and in the locker room…get someone on the staff who at least has some sort of basketball offense philosophy…
rick brunson’s time with the coaching staff should end…send him to westchester or something…
cannot get rid of rick brunson he is the dad of our best player i thought that was understood if rick was not already here then jalen probably would have never been plus he took 110M less in pay than he could have gotten i would not mnd at all if rick was gone just outlining why it absolutely cannot and will not happen especially after just getting rid of thibs who jalen truly loves as a member of his family who he has known since he was a little kid in chicago
good points doogie…
it is that time in the story though where jalen needs to go be his own man, and get daddy the fuck off the court and out of the locker room…
no doubt rick digs in to his son harder than anyone else around, no doubt rick was to some extent a heat shield for the players versus thibs…
however, thibs is gone and basketball is a business…easy enough to figure out a way to keep him in new york and still pay him, you are off the coaching staff rick, pick another job, be cool and we will keep sending you checks…
at this point, to do otherwise is bad optics for all…
what is funny, in some of the after season reporting/guessing/conjecturing it sort of sounded like Rick Brunson single handedly led the new york knicks to the eastern conference final…
were it not for our previous stubborn to the core coach, we would already be about to sweep the oklahoma city thunder and getting ready to plan the parade…
I like the idea of giving Rick the head coaching job at Westchester… bigger fish in a smaller pond might suit him, and they could pay him a ton just to do what he loves and be in charge.
I get that RickyB. Is a pro and he may dreams of coaching in the nba someday but getting the knicks job right now won’t be classy
So did Paul George last season. How’d that go for the Sixers this year?
Decline is logarithmic at this stage. If the trend on his BPM continues we can expect something from 2.0-2.5. A George-esque fall off a cliff is also possible, and much more likely than a miraculous return to All-NBA form.
Paul George is not an outlier.
The best historical comp for Durant is probably LeBron.
Is Phoenix trying to compete again?
They should really be looking at a package of young players + picks. Houston makes a lot of sense to me.
He was on the all NBA second team one year ago. And he probably could have made it this year if Phoenix hadn’t been garbage. No miracle is required. It’s not even a return. He’s still there.
Curry, James, Durant, and Paul are a singular group of NBA players. The decline phases of mortals does not inform us about them.
The upgrade from Bridges or OG to Durant would be incredible, probably for all three years.
It does not seem like we are on his list, though, so it’s all moot.
Towns was on the All-NBA 2nd team this year. That’s who we’d have to trade for him so it’s at best a lateral move for a depreciating asset.
Chris Paul started falling off a cliff at the exact age Durant will be next season. If he wasn’t a ‘mere mortal’ he’d have put up more than 10 ppg the last two seasons.
These guys decline like anyone else, they just do it from a higher peak so they can stay viable longer. The list of superstars who were still All-NBA level at age 37
This is just crazy talk. No player that isn’t LeBron has ever even been close to All-NBA level at 39. This is an extremely poor bet.
I don’t know why we’d have to give up KAT when Miami is considered a front runner offering Jacquez, Wiggins, and Duncan Robinson.
Neither has Mikal Bridges or OG Anunoby, at any age.
Rose has made some moves out of nowhere, but he has also made moves that were telegraphed well ahead of time (like signing Jalen Brunson or drafting Obi Toppin). So attributing some sort of ninja-like secrecy behind all of his moves isn’t reasonable.
Similarly, the whole “Asking other teams for their coaches is so dumb that it must be a smoke screen” is also heavy on magical thinking.
I don’t know that I want KAT here long term.
I am sure I don’t want Durant long term though.
I do not want KD at all, but I have to point out that Kareem came very close to this. He won finals MVP in 1985 when he was 37 and continued to be an all star for several years after that. But KD is no Kareem.
Two ex-Knicks getting testy with each other. Did Toppin and Hartenstein ever play together on the Knicks?
Maybe losing in 6 to the Pacers was not a reason to despair.
So yeah, maybe Indiana is better.
What the hell is going on here?
OKC has made 1 three pointer
I don’t know about you, but I don’t see Oklahoma City winning this series.
They need to win one in Indy, not impossible
SGA has played 23 minutes and has 0 assist. He is similar to Brunson in the sense both stop the ball alot
OBI …. LOL
Glad you finally heard me, ep!
OKC total assists – 7
Indiana total assists – 19
Kinda tells you all you need to know about this game and maybe the series
Part of the Pacers’ “secret sauce” is that Siakim & Toppin play with tremendous velocity. They sprint until they are exhausted, then they sit.
Who’s this obi toppin guy? We could use a guy like him
Fate truly hates us, Obi dominating a Finals game, who could have ever dreamed those words would be uttered LOLOLOL
Yesterday I used Toppin as the reason Thibs had to go. And right now, Toppin just hit back to back treys, blocked a three, had a dunk & an offensive rebound.
What a wasted asset.
OKC looks like ….. us? SGA one on one not gonna cut it
If Toppin can provide positive value, I’m pretty sure Towns can
I will say Brunson iso ball isn’t going to cut it though. Whoever the new coach is has to get the ball moving. Obi wouldn’t look that like here. He made a comment before the finals, it’s good to play on team where one player doesn’t dominate the ball while everybody watches.
“
Glad you finally heard me, ep!”
But wait, we lost to the lower seed!!!
Obi’s career high regular season BPM came in his 2nd season with the Knicks.
OKC gonna win this game
The argument being made by some at that time was that Obi was better than Julius Randle, and that Randle should be traded for a bag of dicks because Obi would be a better starting PF and Randle was about to become the worst contract in the NBA.
Caruso is having an unbelievably impactful game…
Caruso was the best player on the court to me in Game 7 vs the Nuggets and has been the second best player on OKC in the playoffs
Halliburton is hitting some tough shots
So is Nembhard, right over iHart
Indiana beating OKC to offensive rebounding position and drawing fouls…
Indiana’s full court pressure is really bothering OKC.
Hali taking over…
Another offensive rebound foul…
Need a rebound ..maybe dust off your 30 million dollar center
If Brunson had 0 assists like SGA he’d be getting roasted on this blog
Massive clutch run by the MVP…
this series is much better than anticipated…
Feels like Indiana is about to blow their chance at winning this series.
I like how OKC makes their free throws. We should look into that.
And yet ANOTHER offensive rebound foul!!!
Mathurin never missed both FTs against us…
Indy’s not gonna pull this game out of their asses, are they?
And just like that the Thundet are favorites to win it all
Ha
Donny ya boy maturing with a dumb foul
Mathurin goes from hero in game 3 to king of the dumbasses in game 4.
Mathurin with two horrible fouls and 3 missed FTs…
Is Mathurin Choke going to turn into Nick Anderson, rest of the series….?
Thibs must be drawing up okc’s inbounds plays now
I stand by my original belief in OKC
Just a little wobble
The East is big, I mean. Dumb, man
Hey donnie…don’t put that champagne on ice just yet…
Pacers didn’t make a shot in the final 3 minutes????
Good comments from SGA
Hell of a game
If they lose this series, this game will be hard for pacers fans. Title in your hands at home in control of the game
Caruso being one of the best players on the court is not news.
Mathurin being a dumbass, for as good as he can be at scoring, is also not news.
You hate to see it
Did SGA run the court making the choke sign? 🤭
Not one of Math’s finer minutes; however, the Pacers were down 4 the entire time. The fouls and missed FT’s didn’t cost the game, just the chance of yet another miracle finale.
We Pacer fans have long memories, not of the whydfml variety.
“Not one of Math’s finer minutes; however, the Pacers were down 4 the entire time. The fouls and missed FT’s didn’t cost the game, just the chance of yet another miracle finale.”
True, but this is sugar-coating things quite a bit. He had a chance to cut the lead to 2 but missed both FTs, leaving the lead at 4. Then he commits dumb foul #1 and SGA converts, making the lead 5. Then they get a steal and he makes only one of two, making the lead 4 instead of 3. So sure, Pacers were down 4, but if he makes his 3 FTs and doesn’t commit the first foul, they could have been tied. The second one was more moot.
Point being that it wouldn’t have been a miracle finale. Just one based on better execution.
Just saw a theory floated in the wilds of the internet that it’s not Giannis that the Knicks are targeting, but it’ll be Luka.
We are def assembling a significant ex-Mavs group within the org – maybe the overtures toward Kidd are part of a larger long term plan??
Also, as someone who has watched very little Memphis ball – how are people feeling about Taylor Jenkins? What are his tenets? I’m reading that he was primarily a defense oriented coach who had to bring in an offensive co-ordinator…
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