Knicks Morning News (2025.06.05)

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https://xcancel.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1930101539563094434

guy who insanely joked that knicks rehired thibs after they saw this does not make sense clyde said it on a telecast against the miami heat back in 23 so it is not like the first time the knicks knew about this but then i saw more of that guys postings and it all made sense

Some Kidd rumors abound. I made it clear I wanted to move on from Thibs, and I even think it’s pretty likely Kidd would be a better basketball coach.

But man, that would be a substantial vibes downgrade. One thing I admired about Thibs is he never wanted to be the story. Whatever his flaws, and I complained about many of them, the guy was focused on basketball and never embarrassed us. It was quite the breath of fresh air after Phil Jackson’s guy Derek Fisher was snapchatting players’ girlfriends.

Much more Page Six potential with Kidd, and for all the wrong reasons. Wouldn’t be a disaster, but I wouldn’t like it at all.

Hard pass on Kidd, for a variety of reasons.

Couple of notable excerpts from Macri’s newsletter today:

I can tell you this: from what I’ve heard, a more motion-based, egalitarian offense is priority No. 1 when it comes to the next hire.

and

As for realistic candidates, don’t kill me, but I wouldn’t hate Frank Vogel. The man knows how to deal with a circus (LA) and has experience dealing with a collective of strong personalities and not getting run over. His teams always defend and he’d probably be very amenable to working with an offensive coordinator if that’s what the front office wanted.

I’m having trouble finding the time to keep up with all the comments, but I want to make a point that may not have been made yet.

Firing Thibs for his minutes distribution, lineup choices, stubborness and lack of creativity on offense can be the correct thing to do but still wind up with a bad result. Fo this to work out well, they still have to hire a coach that does a better job with this team given its strengths and weaknesses.

Dodgers, Schmodgers.

Thibs = Buck Showalter

Knicks need to find their Joe Torre now.

I can tell you this: from what I’ve heard, a more motion-based, egalitarian offense is priority No. 1 when it comes to the next hire.

I have mixed feelings about Rose. I look at where he’s taken us and I feel great about the approach and results, but I also think he’s made quite a few mistakes (though my view on what those mistakes were may be different than some others here).

If the above is true, this would not be a mistake. It would be 100% exactly what this team offense needs.

It needs way less of Brunson dominating the ball (and clock) while everyone else is standing around watching and way more purposeful ball and player movement. It’s a lot tougher to defend players that are moving, cutting, setting picks, creating space etc.. than it is to defend a guy standing around watching someone else dribble.

There’s like no way in hell Spo finds his way here right??? It would be a story for the ages – the reverse betrayal from Riley’s Knicks to Heat defection.

I think Spo is the one of the best if not the best in the business. And a long term solution coach wise. But probably impossible right?

Other than the usual names I too wouldn’t mind Frank Vogel – thought he was dealt a bad (Lebron) hand – or even Mike Brown provided they hire an offensive coordinator like James Borrego

There’s like no way in hell Spo finds his way here right??? It would be a story for the ages – the reverse betrayal from Riley’s Knicks to Heat defection.

The Knicks already gave up the draft picks it would take to even begin a conversation about it.

Nor is there really any indication that Leon has an unlimited checkbook with which to undertake his cleanup duty. Even less likely given that the guy that made the mess is out $30 million more for Thibs.

Other than the floor here being way lower than Vogel, he doesn’t excite me in the least.

It needs way less of Brunson dominating the ball (and clock) while everyone else is standing around watching and way more purposeful ball and player movement. It’s a lot tougher to defend players that are moving, cutting, setting picks, creating space etc.. than it is to defend a guy standing around watching someone else dribble.

Will be interesting to see whether the new guy has to keep Rick Brunson around (assuming Rick Brunson isn’t your new HC of the NYK, that is.)

Shocking but not shocking — Knicksian, really — to hear that there are some close to the situation who think Rick Brunson had the most power in the organization. DDV’s foul line blowup in preseason starts to make a bit more sense now.

I am pretty confident Leon and team will make a considered, informed choice, name recognition/optics be damned. But geez…if its flipping Thibs for Frank Vogel it better work out because the optics don’t look good.

In terms of Kidd, he’s another guy under contract, so — unless he agitates his way out, which is possible — they’d have to effectively trade for him and again, they don’t have any draft picks with which to do that (other than fugazy Wiz, which doesn’t carry much value.)(*)

I personally don’t think he’s even worth a full-on 1 in any event. Just my opinion. There are some guys I’d give up a 1 for. Spitballing initial pass, could be forgetting someone:

Spo
Carlisle
Atkinson
Ime (90% certain)
Mosley (probably)

(*) I assume the idea of trading a material player for him is a non-starter on both ends.

There’s like no way in hell Spo finds his way here right???

I actually think it is in play.

It doesn’t seem like the Knicks are limiting themselves to coaches who are unemployed. And I heard several media people over the last few days suggest Spo may be eager to flee the nest.

It wouldn’t take draft pick compensation. It would take Dolan giving Micky Arison a fat pile of money, and Arison telling Riley “listen, Pat, I love you but this is a very fat pile of money, I have to say yes.” (Arison may not be excited about paying $15M/year for the coach of a play in team, either.)

Even Dolan has limits, though. We’re talking $30M to Thibs, probably $20M/year for Spo, and a fat pile of cash to Arison. All for a coach. I’d balk if I were him, but who knows how deep the pockets are.

Dang, Luke Walton’s being floated as a name? Hoping that’s a favor to an agent…

Will be interesting to see whether the new guy has to keep Rick Brunson around (assuming Rick Brunson isn’t your new HC of the NYK, that is.)

Shocking but not shocking — Knicksian, really — to hear that there are some close to the situation who think Rick Brunson had the most power in the organization. DDV’s foul line blowup in preseason starts to make a bit more sense now.

There’s two ways to look at it.

IMO Rick Brunson’s presence on the bench is not necessarily a plus because no one is going to want to hold Jalen responsible for his lack of defense or ball dominance. And let’s be clear, imo the bigger problem on defense is Jalen not Towns. A lot of those wide open 3s occur because OG, Mikal, and Hart are helping Brunson. That said, if you are the new coach you are going to want a good relationship with Jalen. Firing his father would not be a good start. If they make Rick the headcoach I surrender.

I’d feel much better about this if the FO had leaked to the press, to put out the bait to the coaches and their agents, that “cost will be no object in the Knicks’ search.”

The lack of that doesn’t necessarily mean cost is an object, but it probably does.

anyone else forget that carlisle coached the pistons to a 61 percent winning percentage back in 2001-2003 prior to going to the pacers 2003-2007 prior to going to the mavericks for 13 years prior to returning to the pacers for the past 4 years

Steve Cohen would just cut the check and not think twice about it.

Even Dolan has limits, though. We’re talking $30M to Thibs, probably $20M/year for Spo, and a fat pile of cash to Arison. All for a coach. I’d balk if I were him, but who knows how deep the pockets are.

If he did that, no one could ever question his desire to win and make the fans happy even if they didn’t agree with his decision making in the early years when he was overly involved.

I think he has learned. It’s his team. So he gets to decide what to spend money on and how much, but I think he listens to his basketball people now. We just have to make sure Isiah is never one of his basketball people. 😉

I’d also give up a 1 for Kerr, but he’s already told Dolan once to stick it where the sun don’t shine … so that ain’t happening.

The other way you get a Spo here is to give him Leon’s job, too — but that ain’t happening either. (Most likely, anyway. I certainly would.)

spo might be a horrible gm he has never done it anywhere before plus giving him those double duties makes it even more likely that his attentions would be divided and that he would do both jobs worse than if he only had one of them

Dolan’s companies are under more financial pressure than ever, though. And unlike Uncle Steve he has to answer to a board.

i am somewhat surprised that trump has not yet installed himself as our new hc that is a joke

i think

The Knicks for once actually appear to be a desirable destination for a coach, so it makes sense that they’re doing due diligence with guys who already have jobs.

The Heat are in some real purgatory right now, not bad enough to be fully terrible and not good enough to aspire to more than the play-in with their Bam-Herro-Wiggins core. They have a couple of decent young players but none that look like stars. One incoming draft pick from Golden State, which is the #20 pick this year.

Not at all an exciting situation.

it would certainly open up a new era in the nba and in american big league sports in general if teams start poaching other teams coaches by just offering enough whenever there are vacancies

There are probably limits on the cash that can be used in a coach trade situation (as there are with, say, cash for draft pick trades), and Silver probably has “best interests of the game” residual authority to block it.

In terms of the dual jobs, it doesn’t mean the guy does all the legwork; it just means he has final say on the roster. Pop did both jobs for decades. Pretty sure Riley was both in Miami for multiple years.

And unlike Uncle Steve he has to answer to a board.

but not actually

anyone else forget that carlisle coached the pistons to a 61 percent winning percentage back in 2001-2003 prior to going to the pacers 2003-2007 prior to going to the mavericks for 13 years prior to returning to the pacers for the past 4 years

They also won the NBA championship and lost in the finals the following year to the Spurs as soon as he was replaced by Larry Brown.

Ignoring the basketball win curve side of things, Spo has worked in the same place for 30 years for an organization known to have one of the best owners in the NBA, has a job for life and a legacy as an all time great even if he falters, and has lived in the sunny Miami area for the same amount of time. Unless he is having a severe late mid-life crisis (noticed he got divorced from a Miami dancer in 2023, so perhaps?) why would he give that up to work for James Dolan, in a job that getting to the finals in 3 years is the minimum criteria for success, and putting up with New York weather?

There are probably limits on the cash that can be used in a coach trade situation

I would think coaches aren’t part of the cash considerations in a trade limit since they exist outside the CBA, but I can’t say for sure.

great questions BE and you are right sometimes we forget that these are actual people with actual lives who could very easily have life reasons why they might want to stay or leave somewhere i would not want to leave that cushy situation for new york if i were him

Hot take: the weather in South Florida actually sucks

And unlike Uncle Steve he has to answer to a board.

but not actually

As a reminder, the board James reports to: 11 members, 7 with Dolan in their name, 2 others with in-law Sweeney in their name.

but the women are amazing they are amazing in nyc as well but still quite a cut above in south beach spoelstra is still relatively young at 54 and he obviously likes dancer cheerleader types

Pat Riley is 80. How much longer is he gonna do that gig?

Leon should hire David Stearns.

He’s a genius.

Just saying…

My family moved to South Florida when I was 6, taking me out of Riverdale and dooming me to a childhood spent in a cultural abyss. It pours rain every day and then the sun comes out and it’s like 90 degrees with 99 percent humidity. Everybody wears flip flops.

It’s hideous

Steve Cohen would just cut the check and not think twice about it.

Yeah, isn’t he dreamy?

I have to say, the Griffin Canning signing was just brilliant. I’ve seen this dude handle the Yankees and Dodgers lineups pitching backwards with killer offspeed stuff. Angels are the perfect type of organization to poach misdeveloped talent from and that’s what Sterns did by getting the guy for just a 1 year deal.

Unless he is having a severe late mid-life crisis (noticed he got divorced from a Miami dancer in 2023, so perhaps?) why would he give that up to work for James Dolan, in a job that getting to the finals in 3 years is the minimum criteria for success, and putting up with New York weather?

As Sir Edmund Hillary famously replied when asked why he climbed Everest: “Because it’s there.”

While we all enjoy discussing coaching and the future GOAT RJ Barrett, remember that we are at least not the Sixers or their fans

https://www.instagram.com/p/DKfPfc7MHQa/?igsh=ZzV1Y2JudDE3Z3l1

noticed he got divorced from a Miami dancer in 2023

there is no greater trial in times of peace than divorcing a woman who can ostensibly put both legs behind her head

And unlike Uncle Steve he has to answer to a board.

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard someone refer to the MSG board of directors on this site.

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard someone refer to the MSG board of directors on this site.

Zach Lowe probably reported on it.

i am pretty certain that he was able to pick up another one the very next day if he was of the mind to do so

Fair points on the board but I presume there is some shareholder consequence if a public company that’s widely known to be hemorrhaging money does something so frivolous. Or maybe it’s just that good to be a Dolan.

Why Spoelstra might leave Miami for New York is not complicated. Ego. Ambition. Legacy. Maybe he doesn’t want the last word on his legacy to be tied to Lebron. “He won two rings with a superteam, and got to the Finals twice with a scrappy underdog group but couldn’t win the big one.” Maybe that eats at him.

Now is that what he thinks and feels? Who knows! It’s impossible to know. But a potential motive is easy to figure out.

Zach Lowe probably reported on it.

If so, I’m surprised that he might perceive of them as anything more than a rubber stamp.

from men’s journal: Rumors have been swirling on social media about Nikki Spoelstra, the former Miami Heat dancer who was married to the head coach from 2016-23. There were rumors that Nikki Spoelstra had been dating one of the players on the Heat roster. Social media detectives thought that Nikki Spoelstra had been dating Heat forward Jaime Jaquez Jr., a 24-year-old big man.

had no idea that jaquez was considered a big man at 6-6

I promise you Dolan is more likely to be in trouble with the board of MSG Entertainment over how The Sphere is hemorrhaging money than anything involving the Knicks.

Also, Jaime Jacquez blowing up his own team because of a clumsy move would be poetic justice.

That was the whole point, Doug. I’m not sure he has his normal appetite for waste with the Sphere causing him this much trouble.

Fair points on the board but I presume there is some shareholder consequence if a public company that’s famously hemorrhaging money right now does something so frivolous. Or maybe it’s just that good to be a Dolan.

you are thinking of msg networks maybe, which was acquired by sphere and then recently prepacked, but msg sports is a separate public entity and basically just owns the knicks and rangers, isn’t hemorrhaging money and only has a $250 million revolver as its entire debt table. dolan is a minority shareholder economically, but controls all of the 10X super-voting stock so even if the dolan family choir and old friend steve mills types on the board somehow went all robespierre on him, he could pretty much just vote them off and pick a new board.

The Braves traded a decent MLB player (Jorge Soler) for Canning at the end of the season, then non-tendered Canning. Stearns signed him for a song and he’s on pace to put up a 3.0 WAR for $4M in salary. Paying a player $1.3M per WAR is quite nice! I’m not used to the Mets taking advantage of dumb things done by the Braves’ front office.

Canning’s velo is up and he throws his breaking pitches for strikes. Stearns has definitely gravitated towards a type of pitcher: the Mets have lots of guys who throw breaking pitches down in the zone, generating tons of ground balls, keeping HR/9 low, and living with an above average number of walks. They’re also second in the majors in fastball velo. They were one bad pitch away from beating the Dodgers on the road with their 6, 7, and 8 starters.

I’m a little worried about Frankie Montas, who has completed his rehab assignment and has stunk out the joint every time. They really don’t need him. At full strength they can run out a Senga-Manaea-Holmes-Peterson-Canning rotation. Nasty.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6405194/2025/06/05/nba-finals-shai-gilgeous-alexander-thunder-tyrese-haliburton-pacers-nba-the-bounce/

Zach Harper looks at the history of teams that fired coaches who had been successful for them, and the move worked out more often than it didn’t. (And at least one of those times when it didn’t was because the team was pivoting to a rebuild anyway.)

yeah PT is right (surprise!). Its MSG Sports that is the entity where 7 Dolans, 1 in-law, and player-option savant Steve Mills are on the board of 15.

you are thinking of msg networks maybe, which was acquired by sphere and then recently prepacked, but msg sports is a separate public entity and basically just owns the knicks and rangers, isn’t hemorrhaging money and only has a $250 million revolver as its entire debt table.

You’re a fucking AI, dude. I’m on to you.

Should’ve called your bluff and met you in Indianapolis.

South Miami is terrible and full of shady people according to the last book I read to my daughter, the Sherlock Society.

And I have been doing a lot of walking in this city the last couple of days and can confirm with 100% certainty that the women here are second to none.

PT – Bletchley Riddle is next. Working our way through the Thirteen Secrets, which is frankly terrible and part of a 2000 page trilogy. So painful giving your children autonomy in reading choices.

I don’t care that much about the coach. The retreads feel unexciting. I think I’d like the unknown type who everyone is a bit in awe of. Kind of like Spo before he became Spo. But I don’t think it’s going to matter that much.

Should’ve called your bluff and met you in Indianapolis.

bluff is probably harsh but fair. we went as far as scouring seat geek and flight change options but it was probably fake hustle from the start.

PT – Bletchley Riddle is next. Working our way through the Thirteen Secrets, which is frankly terrible and part of a 2000 page trilogy. So painful giving your children autonomy in reading choices.

it will deliver. we are actually halfway through the peter nimble book that rama i think recommended in that same thread. been slowed down but a sudden obsession with the oversimplified youtube channel that i thought would land flat but has in fact been a massive hit.

The Braves traded a decent MLB player (Jorge Soler) for Canning at the end of the season, then non-tendered Canning. Stearns signed him for a song and he’s on pace to put up a 3.0 WAR for $4M in salary. Paying a player $1.3M per WAR is quite nice! I’m not used to the Mets taking advantage of dumb things done by the Braves’ front office.

Canning’s velo is up and he throws his breaking pitches for strikes. Stearns has definitely gravitated towards a type of pitcher: the Mets have lots of guys who throw breaking pitches down in the zone, generating tons of ground balls, keeping HR/9 low, and living with an above average number of walks. They’re also second in the majors in fastball velo. They were one bad pitch away from beating the Dodgers on the road with their 6, 7, and 8 starters.

I’m a little worried about Frankie Montas, who has completed his rehab assignment and has stunk out the joint every time. They really don’t need him. At full strength they can run out a Senga-Manaea-Holmes-Peterson-Canning rotation. Nasty.

100% this. So much good stuff here. This pitching approach is exactly what we leaned into against the Dodgers—staying away from the four-seamer, leaning hard on two-seamers and offspeed filth. We threw a steady diet of breaking stuff and changeups, even to elite hitters like Ohtani, and it worked beautifully.

The one game we dropped in that Dodgers series came down to Brazoban. Alvarez called for the changeup, which was clearly part of the plan, but Brazoban shook him off and went four-seamer instead. That pitch got absolutely shelled by Muncy. That one deviation from the script cost us.

As for Montas….yeah, he hasn’t looked great in the minors, but (like you say) he’s basically depth at this point. If an arm goes down, he’s emergency filler in the minors. No harm in keeping him tucked away.

And we’ve got real upside in the system. Jonah Tong is going to hit AAA soon, and he’s the kind of guy who could crack the bigs by the end of the season. The only hole right now is replacing Minter—we need a quality lefty in the pen. Minter was nails, and we don’t have someone who can replicate that just yet.

I am so sorry for your loss, Jowles…

Not bluff bc you didn’t mean it, bluff bc you’re not a real person!

Thank god no one took me up on my offer. It would’ve sucked to have been at that game and then been in Indianapolis on a Saturday night.

Sounds like you guys are about 5 years ahead of me in books but if you have any tips for a fella about to begin the first summer when his boy (age 6) can read on his own I’ll hang up and listen.

Hard pass on Kidd, for a variety of reasons

HWHAT? Alan! You mean to tell me you don’t want Coach Kidd to tell Jalen Brunson to hit him so he can spill his drink all over the floor when he’s out of timeouts?? BLASPHEMER! LOL!

All jokes aside though- what’s the consensus on Chris Quinn? I only remember him as a player, and I haven’t really paid much attention to his coaching. All accounts say he’s a really good up and coming assistant. Makes me wonder if we can get Bryant as HC and Quinn as Assistant HC

Maybe this has already been said here, and I apologize if it has- but what if 5 years was always the plan and Rose gave Thibs the extension as an appreciation gift?

you remember chris quinn as a player he played about 3300 total minutes started a total of 26 games and averaged 4.5 points about 15 years ago and you remember him you have a great memory

and reading a book to ones daughter about shady characters in miami is interesting i mean the fact that a book was written about shady characters that is meant to be read to children is interesting

I didn’t even get halfway through this article before I stopped to google “is Ramona Shelburne a CAA client” and wouldn’t you know it, the answer is yes.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45453816/he-got-outcoached-why-new-york-knicks-fired-tom-thibodeau-their-most-successful-coach-decades

Probably about as close to inside info as you’ll get

Ostensibly similar to the kind of exit meetings teams hold with players after each season, in this case, only a handful of players — essentially the top rotation players — were summoned to meet with Rose and Dolan to give their opinions on the state of the franchise and how the team should move forward.

“Ostensibly” is being worked harder there than Thibs worked Luol Deng.

didn’t even get halfway through this article before I stopped to google “is Ramona Shelburne a CAA client”

“The Fence” rolls off the tongue better than “The Launderer,” but in either case, Leon has — unsurprisingly — found a friendly release outlet for his … cough … material.

The Knicks are bringing in legendary Aussie coach Brian Goorjian to serve as an Assistant Coach for their NBA Summer League squad. Make of it what you will.

you remember chris quinn as a player he played about 3300 total minutes started a total of 26 games and averaged 4.5 points about 15 years ago and you remember him you have a great memory

Yea..I’m a Georgetown fan too. He used to tear my Hoyas up at Notre Dame

Hmm. What is the Thibsian nickname equivalent for Brian Goorjian should he get the job? Goor? Goo? Gojo?

This seems a make-or-break kind of question.

goorjian is 71 years old so no

Leon should have kept the players’ role in this quiet. Bad form.

Can’t blame him too, too much because he was probably scrambling around to try to control the surprising situation, but should have just said I evaluated things as I do every year, it was my call, and left it at that.

Hopefully, he’ll succeed in his cleanup duty. I make it 50/50, maybe slightly lower.

Can’t blame him too, too much because he was probably scrambling around to try to control the surprising situation, but should have just said I evaluated things as I do every year, it was my call, and left it at that.

For what? It was coming out anyways that he lost the clubhouse if that’s what happened. You’re better off getting in front of that than behind it.

why are we not talking about calipari close to leon and www and seems to have a hankering for getting back to nba

The floor is him or lower.

He’s a terrible coach. Clownish reputation with his Nets players BITD, so shitty at x’s and o’s and game coaching that he had to bail from Kentucky.

I’m OK with 2 second round picks or a two 1st swaps for teh picks we’re already swapping with Brooklyn for Ty Lue or Jason Kid. Otherwise, just hire Bryant and go with a young prospect.

Can’t see neither Lou nor Kid excited about next season in their current situation. Clippers are old and Dallas has a roster balance situation with Irving redshirt season.

fair but https://www.si.com/college/kentucky/men-s-basketball/former-kentucky-coach-john-calipari-listed-as-candidate-for-new-york-knicks-coaching-vacancy from sports illustrated

yes yes yes for lue not so much for kidd

Do we know that Jason Kidd is actually a good coach?

i would push for lue over spo he is just as good a coach and probably at least a little bit more attainable if not a lot more attainable

kidd is barely over .500 in regular season and barely under .500 in playoffs lue is .607 in regular season and .672 in playoffs case closed

thibs .579 in regular season .466 in playoffs

Hopefully the next Knicks coach will fare better than the coaches who replaced Thibs the last two times he was fired. Scalabrini and Isola were harping on this during their show this morning.

I don’t have a lot of skin in the “Who’s the next coach and will he be any better than Thibs?” game because I am pretty confident that we have a much more serious issue with personnel than we did with coaching. So, if we run the same 7 primary rotation players out there next year, sign me up for the under (meaning under how we did this year).

But I am opimistic that change is coming in that regard because I believe that, just as Leon & Co. concluded that Thibs had essentially run his course, Leon & Co. does not believe that this is a championship roster, and that the answer is NOT to simply tweak positions 8-12 on the depth chart. If something very significant doesn’t happen, I will be very, very disappointed, and bracing myself for some backsliding.

Here is what Haberstroh had to say about Calipari in regard to the Knicks coaching vacancy, “There’s a man who knows how to win with Karl-Anthony Towns. This man also won an NBA Coach of the Year award and also happens to know what it’s like to hold an NBA coaching job in the Tri-State area. Step right up, John Calipari!”

Maybe his mom gave him a plaque to that effect or somesuch, or maybe he went out himself and got one made — but no, he’s never actually been NBA Coach of the Year.

Here is my poetic tribute to Pete Alonso’s performance yesterday:

There once was a slugger named Pete,
Whose homers were so very sweet.
He launched one so high,
It lit up the sky—
Oh my, what a marvelous feat!

i totally believe you that haberstroh made that false claim about calipari but wonder why it was not as big a deal at the time he said it as it should have been

Calipari probably tells people he was NBA Coach of the Year, it filtered to Haberstroh, he didn’t check it, and now he thinks it.

Would be entirely on-brand.

i do not know how one does not check that in fact i do not know how one does not already know that to be false in his line of work

did he write that or say it verbally if written then shame on the people who did not notice before it was published

Calipari was 26-56, 43-39, and 3-17 as the Nets coach. His players were basically laughing at him by the time he was unceremoniously sent packing.

Anything’s possible with WWW and Dolan, unfortunately — but he’s not a serious NBA coaching candidate.

The Nets declowned themselves, stole Kidd for Marbury, and within three years of Calipari’s departure at 3-17, made two straight NBA finals.

It’s the E and Doogie Show!

On the other hand I have almost nothing to say. I’m with Z-Man on one side, in that I don’t really have skin in the coach choices, there’s nobody that stands out to me and the subtleties of what I think we need are hard to articulate so not sure I’d know who to pick if you gave me a lineup and a gun to my head.

On the other hand, not so completely in lockstep with Z-Man on his second point about the roster. While I would not be surprised if it gets churned up a bit, I think with the right coach pushing the right buttons (and not pushing the wrong ones, i.e., covering our holes effectively, which Thibs failed at), we could go a long way as is. All the way? With a bit of luck, which is always the case. So maybe.

We have some gaping holes. We can cover them by trades, which is really hard to do, or with new systems and lineups and playcalling and creativity. Which is also not easy and entirely dependent on getting the right coach.

I don’t have a lot of skin in the “Who’s the next coach and will he be any better than Thibs?” game because I am pretty confident that we have a much more serious issue with personnel than we did with coaching. So, if we run the same 7 primary rotation players out there next year, sign me up for the under (meaning under how we did this year).

I actually see it differently. How can we say this roster hit its ceiling if we don’t believe Thibs maximized its strengths? That’s kind of the whole issue. If the system over-relied on Brunson, underused Towns, misused the two wings we traded for, and was late adjusting in the playoffs—then how do we know what this group is truly capable of?

Before we break the roster apart, maybe let’s see what it looks like with a coach who’s more adaptable offensively and better at managing rotations. It’s not about running it back blindly—it’s about giving this talent a different framework to thrive in before we start shipping core guys out.

Bottom line: if you’re not convinced the coach got the most out of the team, then it’s premature to declare the roster flawed.

hunter sallis out of wake forest blecccch but then again not sure what we could expect at 50

I was just thinking about the Suns (since their weird owner said he will be more hands on now, which is hilarious). Has there ever been a more obviously doomed trade than the Bradley Beal deal? Everyone knew it would work out terribly, and that’s exactly what happened. You rarely have a deal that everyone knew would fail, and still do it. It was so, so weird.

To follow up, I don’t think personnel moves just for the sake of making them will automatically improve our lot. With the paltry assets we have, it will take a sharp eye for talent and clever negotiating to make mover that will significantly alter our fortunes. I don’t think anyone other than Brunson is untouchable, and nobody else has all that much positive value.

OG: his contract is no better than market value, so at best you’re getting a similar player in terms of impact, and probably someone not as impactful.

Mitch: Might be our best trade chip now that he’s “proven” that he is fully recovered from the foot injury, but as with OG, replacing his impact at his salary point seems highly unlikely. But he can definitely sweeten a mullti-player deal if Giannis insists on coming here.

KAT: my guess is that the FO is convinced that another coach can unlock more of his magical powers on offense and do a better job of masking his issues on defense (it may be the main reason Thibs was fired), so they will be reluctant to trade him without giving the new guy that chance. My personal opinion is that it’s a fool’s errand and that KAT should be moved before it’s too late, but alas. If Leon WAS amenable to trading him, again, it’s hard to see a move that doesn’t result in a step backward rather than forward. But who knows, there might be a mediocre GM out there who values him higher than the more savvy ones.

Mikal: the main reason to trade him would be to not have to extend him. On his salary, you might be able to package him with Mitch, Deuce, etc. to bring back someone exciting. But I think he stays.

Deuce: Probably the only guy besides Brunson who is being significantly underpaid. I see him as sweetener, probably equivalent to a lightly-protected first.

…or what ras said.

we are actually halfway through the peter nimble book that rama i think recommended

I did! Hope you’re happy about it and not disappointed lol

Has there ever been a more obviously doomed trade than the Bradley Beal deal?

Two words: Andrea Bargnani.

It certainly sounds like Leon is looking into making significant roster moves. Z-man’s analysis seems reasonable, but with Leon, nothing seems to be off the table. Since it’s much harder with the aprons, though, his intentions may not matter.

I was just thinking about the Suns (since their weird owner said he will be more hands on now, which is hilarious). Has there ever been a more obviously doomed trade than the Bradley Beal deal? Everyone knew it would work out terribly, and that’s exactly what happened. You rarely have a deal that everyone knew would fail, and still do it. It was so, so weird.

Dallas trading Doncic for Anthony Davis.

Lakers trading for Russell Westbrook.

Memphis trading Pau Gasol to LAL though that ended up working out pretty well for Memphis.

Minnesota trading Garnett to Boston for Al Jefferson.

Knicks trading for Eddy Curry? I actually can’t remember if everyone hated that trade at the time.

I didn’t even get halfway through this article before I stopped to google “is Ramona Shelburne a CAA client” and wouldn’t you know it, the answer is yes.

Friend sent me a part of this that talked about Leon Rose got Dolan’s trust by understanding when it was time to go all in

Knicks trading for Eddy Curry? I actually can’t remember if everyone hated that trade at the time.

Oh, we hated it.

I mean, I’m sure if you were to look at my posts at the time, I was doing my usual wishcasting routine of trying to articulate a path where it wouldn’t be a disaster. But deep down, I knew that it was.

Really? No one thinks the Andrea Bargnani trade was worse than the Eddy Curry one? Bargnani only played 62 games for us, and we gave up a first-round pick, two second-rounders, and players to get him.

The pick we gave up for Bargnani turned into Jakob Poeltl. The picks we gave up for Curry turned into Lamarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah. No contest.

Friend sent me a part of this that talked about Leon Rose got Dolan’s trust by understanding when it was time to go all in

That material lends (substantial) credence (*) to my earlier musings that Dolan’s fingerprints are on the Mikal trade.

(*) Tons of evidence. Dolan has conceptualizing the idea of “all-in,” formulating his idea that there’s a “right time” to do it, and using it as a criteria of judgment of his personnel.

And Leon himself has internalized the idea that the boss wants him to go all-in at some point in time. All-in is not his idea, not his concept, or his criteria (**) — it’s Dolan’s.

Smoke, meet fire.

(**) Though he may generally agree with the approach.

True, the picks we gave up in the Curry deal turned into better players. But wasn’t the question about which trade was more obviously doomed at the time it was made? Because the Bargnani trade looked like a disaster from day one. Curry at least had potential—Bargnani was already a sunk cost.

The Curry trade was what brought me here.

We hated it.

Crafty of Leon to basically get out there that managing Dolan is really tough but by god, I’m doing a fine job of it.

Because I went all-in at the right time. (*)

And to get out to Thibs the idea from when Russell saved Deniro from the “Jew mob” in the Irishman, after Deniro blew up one of their businesses and Harvey Keitel the mob boss told him, “You don’t know how good a friend you have.”

“Oh, I do.” (Not really getting it.)

“No. You don’t.”

(*) Even though he didn’t, and certainly not in the right way for the right guy.

who knows, there might be a mediocre GM out there who values [KAT] higher than the more savvy ones.

We already know there is but I’d be surprised if there is a second one 😉

Managing Dolan was a different feat altogether. Rose did that by earning Dolan’s trust with his methodical approach to team-building and by being right about when to go all-in and when to wait for the next hand.

Dolan “agreed” with Leon that it was the right time to go all-in in the same way that he “agreed” with Leon that Thibs should go.

Excellent corporate and office politics and PR work by Leon — A-plus, really — but not convincing at all on the underlying substance. And brought to the fore another issue — the “all-in” stuff — that hadn’t even been raised yet.

with his methodical approach to team-building

Methodical like forgoing the NBA draft and spending 55% of the salary cap in one summer on a bunch of bums your coach had to bench then wasting priceless draft capital to get rid of them all a year later.

You sure you don’t a byline on this one, Leon?

You sure you don’t a byline on this one, Leon?

Hey, after all the fat commissions Leon’s sent CAA the past few years, he deserves it!!!

The Curry trade was what brought me here.

We hated it.

Same. I was trying to explain this blog to my sister and went back to that trade as the catalyst for me finding my people. So obviously bad.

We gave up more for Curry, but he was only 22 and you could at least squint your eyes at him and try to pretend that he wasn’t a godawful player. Bargnani was acquired for his age 28 season and had already compiled a long, distinguished resume of suck. The Bargnani trade made me howl in agony the second it was announced.

The one other time I was immediately like OH GOD NO was when I saw the details of the Joakim Noah contract.

Has there ever been a more obviously doomed trade than the Bradley Beal deal? Everyone knew it would work out terribly, and that’s exactly what happened. You rarely have a deal that everyone knew would fail, and still do it. It was so, so weird.

KG and Paul Pierce to the Nets.

It was bad even before the picks/swaps turned into Tatum and Brown.

ESPN literally picked the Knicks to make the playoffs in Curry’s first year, in part because they liked the Curry trade. As others noted, what made this blog such a cool place at the time was that it was one of the few places that knew just how bad that deal was, and Mike would have to routinely explain why it was a bad deal. Early on, it would be, like, every other post, “No, the Curry deal IS bad. Eddy Curry is NOT good.”

1. Curry was 22, but he was overweight and had a heart condition that he was refusing to follow his team’s treatment plan for.

2. At the time we made the Bargnani trade — which, again, was obviously bad from the second we made it — the Nuggets had swap rights for that 2016 pick from the Melo trade, which they used to take Jamal Murray. And the assumption was that one or both of us and Denver would still be at least competent in 2016. (In that same summer that we traded for Bargnani, we picked 24th and they picked 27th.) Whereas Zeke just gave the Bulls two unprotected picks at a time when we were already bad, to acquire a one-way player with serious health and conditioning problems who had shown no evidence in his first stop that he could in any way elevate a team.

It was ultimately proven worse, but it seemed worse at the time.

I’m pretty sure Isiah invented the unprotected pick swap in the Eddy Curry trade.

I recall being struck by the irony of a stupid GM creating a brilliant way to circumvent the stepien rule.

Fair points from all sides, but they actually reinforce why the Bargnani trade was more indefensible at the time it was made. With Curry, yes, we gave up unprotected picks and ignored serious red flags — terrible decision. But at least he theoretically had upside and could “mature”: a young big with a decent post game in an era that still valued it.

But with Bargnani, there was no upside left. He had already proven to be an inefficient volume scorer, a minus defender, and constantly injured. And we still gave up a first, two seconds, and players for a guy the Raptors were dying to unload. Worse, we made that move after winning 54 games — when we should’ve been consolidating, not panicking.

The fact that we’re even having a debate about which deal was worse tells you all you need to know: Curry was a disaster in hindsight; Bargnani was a disaster on contact.

ras and Raven, I don’t think Thibs necessarily pushed the wrong buttons, just different ones than a different coach might push. I believe that coaches approach things differently depending on their individual view of the personnel, how they fit, and manage their strengths and weaknesses on both ends individually and collectively, but at the end of the day, a roster has its ceiling no matter who the coach is or what strategy is chosen. Maybe there’s a very, very short list of coaches who would have gotten this team to the finals if they were handed the job last October, or maybe Thibs actually maxed them out (again assuming that they were there from beginning to end.)

Put differently, I think there is a higher likelihood that a different coach would have done worse and have been eliminated sooner.

That’s not to say that Thibs should not have been fired. Only that the notion that some new coach is going to get this particular roster further than he did doesn’t pass my personal smell test. I also think that there comes a point where players start to tune the same voice out, and a new voice can make a difference, but usually that’s something pretty short-lived. We found that out when Mike Dantoni was replaced by Mike Woodson, and there are many other examples. At the end of the day, it’s a player’s league, and the team with the better personnel usually wins.

I would go as far as to say that if you want to punch above the weight of your personnel, then Thibs is one of the guys who can do that.

Looking at the Eastern Conference right now, if Toronto gets Giannis, they wouldn’t be competitors year one, right? Just hoping that a Giannis trade could knock both the Bucks and the Raptors out of consideration for “teams the Knicks have to worry about next season.”

Now, if the Magic actually get a guard who can do anything on offense, they might be scary.

I’m sorry, Ras. Two unprotected picks is much worse than one pick that another team already had swap rights on, regardless of the age of the player coming back. I was here when the Curry trade happened. There was justified apoplexy at the moment.

The Knicks made an offer for Durant at the trade deadline?

Shams:

“On Kevin Durant I will say this: There was mutual interest between Kevin Durant and the Knicks at the trade deadline. The Knicks made an offer for KD”

ruh roh scooby

Z-man, I hear where you’re coming from, and you lay it out thoughtfully as always. But I do think we see this a bit differently.

To me, it wasn’t just that Thibs pushed “different” buttons than another coach might have — it’s that he often refused to push new ones at all. We saw him ride the same favorites, stick with stagnant lineups even when others worked, and show little interest in experimentation even in moments that called for adjustment. That goes beyond just philosophical preference — it borders on inflexibility, and that will cap any team’s potential.

I also don’t buy that this roster has a hard ceiling regardless of who’s coaching. Maybe no coach was taking this group to a Finals championship, sure — but I’m not convinced Thibs maximized them either. There’s more to that than effort and defense. It’s about adaptation, creativity, and trust in your full rotation. That’s where I think a fresh voice could make a difference — to unlock things Thibs either didn’t see or didn’t trust so we get a real look into what this team is or isn’t when its been optimized according to its greatest strengths.

I do agree with you that Thibs can get teams to punch above their weight — he’s done that before. But eventually, if a coach becomes part of the ceiling, then it’s fair to ask what might be possible with a different approach before its too late.

Now, if the Magic actually get a guard who can do anything on offense, they might be scary.

That’s why last off season I thought the right move was simply to trade DDV to Orlando for one of their surplus bigs and continue on with Julius. Seemed like a win-win.

Things went a little differently.

Meanwhile, it’s peak KB to be arguing about which trade was worse. What a franchise. Maybe we should just get ready for the next coach to be a disaster now. But the last few years HAVE been different, so ya never know.

Looking at the Eastern Conference right now, if Toronto gets Giannis, they wouldn’t be competitors year one, right?

I think a lot of people have gotten ahead of themselves about the east being weak because Boston is going to drop down. There are a bunch of teams just below the Knicks that could look VERY tough with a little development and one significant addition.

What ras said, yet again (thanks ras).

Z-Man, a lot of my take is based on how frustrating this season was despite winning a whole basket full of games, and then making it into the ECF. I wasn’t delirious, and I should have been.

Sure there was a fair amount of yelling at KAT and Hart, and being exasperated at Mikal and even OG for stretches. But most of my yelling was at Thibs — put him in, take him out, stop playing drop, that’s not working! Much more so than any previous season it felt like opportunities were missed or willfully ignored.

Thibs got his team prepared, and had them play hard. Maybe the new guy will ‘put him in, take him out, stop playing drop, and stop what else isn’t working,’ but the team won’t be as prepared or work as hard. That’d be a shame, but damn it I don’t think we topped out.

I don’t know if anyone has heard of hot hand theory, it’s another talking heads podcast (the style not the awesome band)

But they have a video on why thibs should have been fired, and I think it covers most of what av lot have been saying

also: Brian goorjian coaching Summer League? From his time in the NBL (Australian League) I will say one thing, expect a whole heap of 3s. NBL isn’t known for it’s inside game prowess, but they’ve never met a player who didn’t love jacking 3s

The problem with Toronto is the problem with Dallas — anything you can dream (*) on with them falls apart with the realization that Ingram (like AD) is never going to stay healthy.

(*) I mean, make Ingram as durable as Mikal and you trade OG, Mikal, and Hart for Ingram, Himself, and IQ in a tenth of a blink of an eye.

But most of my yelling was at Thibs — put him in, take him out, stop playing drop, that’s not working! Much more so than any previous season it felt like opportunities were missed or willfully ignored.

Pretty much this. My sister, who never watched them before this playoffs, really loved Brunson, loved Mitch, and was impressed by KAT’s touch and scripting ability (though she called him Baby Elephant because of how he moved. But she constantly was pointing out what we could have been doing to free up shooters (something about back screens low in the paint or whatever, it went by too fast for me to track), and how poorly we were coached at times. How players didn’t seem to know their roles and where to be. How we kept “playing their game” in the Indiana series instead of slowing it down and playing ours. Just a lot of small stuff that added up. I assume even more experienced people were seeing the same stuff in heater detail than we were taking about here.

So yeah, Thibs did a great job establishing a floor. The team never quit, despite whatever dissension they felt. We won a lot more games than in the previous decade. But if casuals, no matter how experienced, could take us apart without even looking at the film, there probably is some pretty low-hanging fruit.

I don’t know if anyone has heard of hot hand theory, it’s another talking heads podcast

Thanks, will check out

Given all the (not really surprising) stuff that’s come out in the last few days, base case is that the Knick ceiling for coaches in terms of talent, empowerment, GM “protection” from ownership, and general leaving alone to do his thing is Thibs.

Jeff Van Gundy got ground to dust, Mike D’Antoni got ground to dust, Larry Brown got ground to dust. Thibs was the outlier exception, not remotely the rule. And even he wound up getting whacked under bizarre circumstances.

So, again base case, the next coach projects to be worse. Hopefully a pleasant surprise is around the corner but for me it’s the ol’ hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

The KD leak is the typical thing the team does as a “sop” to the masses when in defensive crisis mode.

Seen this one more times than can be counted.

At least it won’t wind up with them signing Marcus Morris, Elfrid Payton, and Reggie Bullock.

lol, E looking for any reason to shit on the Knicks right now. He’s been saving it up for the entire playoffs. Must have been killing you to not be negative during our playoff run.

KD trade is tough because he’s making ~$55 million and we’d have to send Hart/Mikal/Mitch or OG/Mitch or KAT by himself to make the money work.

The Suns are also a 2nd apron team, so they cannot combine players in trades. That means no sweetener from their roster like Dunn.

KD is not really all that appetizing in a vacuum. He already ruptured the Achilles, is over 35, and just wrapped up a 36-win season on a team with an Olympic teammate and Budenholzer (2x COTY, 1x title).

It’s hard to imagine a deal to acquire KD that is a better use of our player assets than trading them for other people or just playing them.

we are about to see just how incredibly magical a coach rick carlisle is…

no hard feelings against the pacers, they’ve put together a good team and have had two really good seasons in a row…particularly noteworthy is myles and TJ who seem like they’ve been there since forever…

hoping they show well tonight and throughout the series…

sign me up for spo or ty lue, of the other folks names mentioned – i kind of like the idea of frank vogel…

don’t want another dinosaur in there, but maybe a newbie coach ain’t the way to go…

I mostly wake up feeling like I just chased down a couple of expressos with a few mountain dews…

E makes me feel like I’m riding along in the slow lane…zoom, there goes E…

remember to breathe…deeply…go long on the exhales if you can…

you know, I can’t really remember what the E thing was even about…

still and all, brand recognition with a single letter is mighty impressive…well done sir…

Could we give Mikhal a raise and ship him + one other player (Hart or Mitch) only for Durant? Starting line up: Towns, KD, OG, deuce, Brunson ….. Beastly 5 out offense?

I can cancel my CP3 backup PG plan

SleeperKnicks

@SleeperKnicks

NEW: Chris Paul admits that being away from family for the past 6 years (Phoenix, OKC, San Antonio, and Golden State) didn’t sit right with him.

(🎥 @PatMcAfeeShow)

Losing iHart was such a blow

Losing Obi, not so much

Petition to retire the username g or G in honour of geo’s posts. You always make me smile Sir, thanks!

Ihart steal off obi… Makes me think of what could’nt have been

Nine turnovers in the first quarter?

Richard Jefferson just suggested that the Thunder’s inexperience won’t matter bc “Alex Caruso will tell them what it’s like so they pretty much all have finals experience bc of that.”

I don’t think we’re gonna see too much of Hali’s dumb smile this series (thank god)

I don’t know if anyone has heard of hot hand theory, it’s another talking heads podcast (the style not the awesome band)

But they have a video on why thibs should have been fired, and I think it covers most of what av lot have been saying

I also recently discovered Hot Hand Theory, started listening to them when Brunson got hurt. They’re who blackpilled me on Thibs, basically.

The Dorture Chamber…

I think Vogel and Budenholzer would be upgrades over Thibs, if for no other reason, then that this isn’t a Thibs roster.

The OKC defense is on another level, whoa

As a person who is heavily rooting for the Thunder, I don’t feel great about only having a 12 point lead after that half.

I also recently discovered Hot Hand Theory, started listening to them when Brunson got hurt. They’re who blackpilled me on Thibs, basically.

Like I understand emotion in sports. But considering the Knicks have the highest funded analytics team in the NBA (reportedly) they seemed to ignore a lot of it for thibs philosophy. Then again does moneyball work in the NBA? Maybe with all these aprons, it’s time to find out

I also appreciate HHT called out Macri,always a plus in my books

Hot Hand Theory is excellent. I rarely miss it. They are mostly into on/off, lineup combinations, EPM and back their ideas with the data and common sense. I think one of them used to be a pro poker player.

19 TOs is ridiculous

Fire Carlisle! His offense sucks! 😜😜😜

We turned the ball over a lot, but also missed a lot of pretty decent shots. OKC is good, but I have faith in the boys in harvest gold.

Watching this Thunder team makes me miss my Deeefense name.

(Gotta get back to thunderblogger.org now where I am moonlighting under the handle Rick Sund)

I don’t know if anyone has heard of hot hand theory, it’s another talking heads podcast (the style not the awesome band

But they have a video on why thibs should have been fired, and I think it covers most of what av lot have been saying

lol I just checked it out and begins with them showing the Jeff Teague video 🤣🤣

Per that video KAT had the best defensive on/off numbers for any Knick. The Knicks were 7 pts per 100 possessions better defensively with KAT on the floor than without him.

I don’t know about those guys. They use stats but don’t seem to use them well. They basically blamed the whole thing on Thibs not playing 5 out with Deuce.

OKC looking kinda fugazy here. Had about a million chances to put this away and they’re letting Indiana hang around.

Pacers are going to win this game.

Thunder have missed a ton of offensive oppys and their defense has slowed down a bit since the opening, but defense is still super impressive. Brunson would have been swarmed in this series. Multiple competent ball handlers and passers critical against this team.

they got this donnie…I wouldn’t even worry that much ’til the pacers get down 3 – 0 in the series…

no chance they get swept, huh?
😛

oh, and thank you so much clyde fraziers blazers for the kind words…

hope your Friday evening – is just as awesome as every other night of the week…

yeah man, got off the road after taking this crazy GPS shortcut, I guess, which pulled me off the I5 heading south around Gorman and had me traveling on all these lonely 2 lane high desert roads to get back south…

yeah, that high desert environment is uh, definitely an acquired taste…

KB eases my nerves, I don’t know, who knows why…

even my friend tells me when I’m stressed: go read your blog

JK is catching Pacer Fever. He gets us!

Jalen Brunson worst defensive PG in the NBA

Tyrese Halliburton says hold my beer

Million missed bunnies for OKC in this

OKC playing terrified

Told y’all

Entertaining game. OkC missed so many good looks in that 1st half

Unbelievable

Oh boy

Called it

Again??????

Okc fans are stunned

You could see this coming from a million miles away. OKC had an infinite amount of chances to put this away

Knicks game 1 vibes

Can’t believe they fired Thibs for beating this devil team twice

Million missed bunnies for OKC in this

they should have won this game by 15

Anyone still think we’re better than the Pacers?

Magic.

Indy looks like it had destiny on its side. Wow.

Chokeeee..

Knicks should be up 1-0 in the NBA Finals.

Hahahaha traumatic flashbacks. Poor OkC fans

If this keeps up solidifies the knicks are not too far away, solidify that bench with more playmaking and shooting and get a coach with offensive creativity

Indy going on the road against a 68 win team, turning the ball over 24 times and winning is hysterical

This Pacer team is relentless. Anyone that takes them lightly is making a huge mistake. To do this against OKC in OKC is stunning. No one outplays the Thunder down the stretch, but the Pacers just did it!

Both teams made 39 shots and OKC took 16 more, just an incredible bucket missing performance

Strat gets us!

Jalen willaims 19 shots for 17 points

Chet 9 shots for 6 points

just an incredible bucket missing performance

I mean, they need to fire Daigneault for this, right?

Was the OkC offense bad tonight or is the Indy defense better than we think? YES

Well if you like OKC in the series – now is a good time to bet on them.

Anyone still think we’re better than the Pacers?

I still think we have better players, but they were the better team. Which is why I felt a coaching change was called for.

16 more shots come on, there’s no defense that good

Was the OkC offense bad tonight or is the Indy defense better than we think? YES

Outside of SGA, the thunder are hit or miss on offense

Strat gets us!

Just amazing. You must be over the top excited. This is a series!

The smallball lineup OKC played down the stretch stunk

what…no way…ha, they have been consistent…

Pacers invisible sixth man putting in work tonight, not just blocking 3 pointers but layups also.

The good thing about playing OKC is that they just don’t have that many threats one on one. SGA has to do so much. But they are relatively easy to stop when they aren’t turning you over constantly.

Since they do turn you over constantly, though, I still think OKC takes this. But props to Carlisle – what a great coach.

But they are relatively easy to stop when they aren’t turning you over constantly.

They turned Indy over constantly, it was 24/6 turnovers they just bricked everything

Rooting for Hubert to get paid

Cason Wallace -33 minutes, [-] 13

I-Hart 17 minutes

For much of this game OKC was badly outplaying Indiana and didn’t have enough of a lead to show for it. You can’t let that happen, you need to run the score up when the other team is turning the ball over 20 times in a half, because eventually they’re going to adjust and stop turning it over.

The smallball lineup down the stretch was also overly cute. It didn’t get any stops and Indiana got a lot more easy shots. Took all their length out of the game.

The smallball lineup down the stretch was also overly cute. It didn’t get any stops and Indiana got a lot more easy shots. Took all their length out of the game.

OKC should hire Thibs next year

“I still think we have better players”

We don’t.

How do you view it if the Pacers win the title? “They lost to the team that won the title, no shame in that” or “They could have won the title, too, had they defeated Indiana”?

The thing about OKC is that their defense is super elite, but their offense is really not as good as it looks at first glance. What makes their offense highly rated is that they kill teams with steals/TOs. Tonight they got loads of TOs in the first half, but some were dead ball TOs and they didn’t score that much off the rest. Once Indiana settled down, they outplayed OKC. OKC has to continue creating TOs and scoring off them at a high rate or this is going to be a really tough series because the Pacers have the better shooters, their defense is good enough and they are also deep enough.

Well we gave them a guy who scored 17 points on 9 FGA and was +13 because we felt he was unplayable so there’s that

**The coach didn’t want to play him… it’s not why he was fired, but it’s an issue with his style of coaching

The league needs to dissolve the Sacramento Kings for the good of the sport, stupid m@therfuckers.

You can’t let that happen, you need to run the score up when the other team is turning the ball over 20 times in a half

100%. They needed to be up 20 at the half and weren’t. And that closing lineup was a Thibs special – let’s let them get back in the game, d’oh!

Eh, Obi did OK, but he balanced his efficient scoring with 4 TOs and a couple dumb fouls. Typical Obi experience. I think it’s more about Carlisle being flexible and figuring out what’s working and why and sticking with it instead of having some dogmatic idea of who needs to be on the floor.

How do you view it? “They lost to the team that won the title, no shame in that” or “They could have won the title, too, had they defeated Indiana”?

Long way to go in this series.

I’m less results oriented than most people. When teams are very close a series can go either way based on a single shot, bad call, single hot or cold shooting night etc…

IMO, the Knicks and Pacers are very close.

I still think we have the more talented team by a slim margin, but they have the better coach. They had a historic shooting exhibition and hit a crazy shot to beat us in game 1 or we go 7 in MSG. IMO If we played 100 games it would be very close.

IMO OKC is clearly better than both of us, but you could see against Denver they are not invincible good, which is why I closed out my bet on them rather than sweating out more basketball to squeeze a little more out of the bet.

I said the other day that to win the Pacers had to shoot well from 3 (they did) and avoid TOs. They didn’t do the latter, but OKC didn’t score off the TOs. We’ll see if they can sustain that shooting and avoid the TOs because OKC is going to score more off them next time.

IMO OKC is better and the gap between them and the Pacers and us is not negligible.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmzaHR2ses&pp=ygUbQmJhbGxicmVha2Rvd24gdGhpYnMgZmlyaW5n0gcJCbIJAYcqIYzv don’t know if this Thibs vid has been posted yet

Just saw the score. unreal.

Time to cash out Hubert

“They could have won the title, too, had they defeated Indiana”?

But Indiana can’t be defeated.

The league needs to dissolve the Sacramento Kings for the good of the sport, stupid m@therfuckers

Did the Kings do something to prompt this post? All I can find in the news is the they are interested in Tyus Jones (a free advent who can shoot) and they might consider trading Lavine, Sabonis or Derozan if they can find the right deal; none of which seems like colossal stupidity.

kfninj….i believe it was a reference to getting rid of hali

“I’m just trying to make a play. Man, basketball is fun, winning is fun.”

Wow.

https://xcancel.com/buck4orlife/status/1930783508462555523

Thanks pepper

IMO, the Knicks and Pacers are very close.

On paper perhaps. But if you take every great moment in knicks history, Willis in the tunnel, The Dunk, LJ’s 4 point play, Linsanity, etc, and you compacted it all into a single playoff run you essentially have the 2025 Indiana Pacers. That’s 80 years of history matched in just a few weeks. Great coaching simply can’t overcome that.

well, aren’t you just in a downright giddy mood this evening donnie…pray tell from where does this joy spring 😊

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226 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.05)”