[Bleacher Report] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 21:36:13 GMT
- NBA Exec: Wolves ‘Took a Considerable Step Backward’ with Towns, Randle, Knicks Trade
- Captured locker room footage shows Timberwolves might regret hasty trade
- Nuggets Journal: Timberwolves no longer Denvers matchup nightmare after blockbuster Karl-Anthony Towns trade
- Nuggets Notes: Towns, Saric, Gordon, Westbrook
- T-wolves seek quick pivot from Towns trade to maintain last season’s NBA conference finals momentum
[New York Post] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 21:35:00 GMT
- Karl-Anthony Towns ready to give the Knicks some center stability
- Emotional return to New York for Timberwolves’ Donte DiVincenzo and Julius Randle
- Why Anthony Edwards’ big game vs. Knicks should have Wolves fans excited
- Knicks Notes: Randle, DiVincenzo, Backup Centers, Kolek
- SEE IT: Knicks welcome Julius Randle, Donte DiVincenzo back to MSG with tribute video
[Sports Business Journal] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 10:08:18 GMT
Hype around the Knicks brings fresh focus on the relationship between owner James Dolan and league
[Sports Illustrated] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 14:57:46 GMT
Julius Randle Offers Advice to Knicks’ Karl-Anthony Towns
[Empire Sports Media] – Mon, 14 Oct 2024 12:54:17 GMT
- Knicks developmental guard could break out this season
- Knicks’ Miles McBride: Gets green light Sunday
- Knicks swapped DiVincenzo for home-grown sharp-shooter as key bench piece
- Miles McBride Battling An Illness – NBA News | Fantasy Basketball
- Knicks Put Trust in Miles McBride for Sixth Man of the Year
[Yahoo Eurosport UK] – Tue, 15 Oct 2024 07:31:05 GMT
Hornets vs. Knicks: Start time, where to watch, what’s the latest
126 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.10.15)”
I’ll be on record as pro KAT trade. I think that even if we have to play him at the 4 because he is too soft, he is still better than Randle. Randle wasn’t a good defender anyway, and don’t forget he has a lot of games where he is arguing with the refs and stuff like that, instead of focusing on his play. He was also a ball stopper, and KAT doesn’t look to be. I think Randle is very good, but on offense KAT is better than him. So, let’s say we have to play him at the 4, i think he’s an improvement over Randle. The problem is that we lost DDV for “nothing”, in this comparison, of course. But i think we’re valuing DDV because of last season, and with Mikal he wasn’t going to play heavy minutes anymore, maybe even he’d be less effective given that he’d have to sacrifice a lot of PT for the greater good. What i’m trying to say is that we didn’t lose last season’s DDV, we lost a very good backup, and i guess that is not an irreplaceable damage.
I think Leon is going to make another move, using two or three of Hart, Mitch and Precious. Brunson, Mikal, OG and KAT are the untouchables for now. What move will that be will depend on how this season unfolds, and on the opportunities that arise, of course.
I’m hopeful we can be in the ECF, but we’ll probably have to face one of Celtics and Sixers before that, so the 2nd round will probably be one for the ages. Thank God we have that kind of series back, last time we had it we were in the 90s i guess. So now the youngsters among us will taste for themselves how were the 90s. š
Although at the time we had a mountain we cannot climb (Jordan) and it gave a different feel to those series against the Bulls because we were really close to be the ones that defeated him. I don’t think winning against Tatum and Brown will feel the same, but it is a lot more doable. š
I get the disagreement about the bottom of the Yankees order, btw. I remember when Cashman got Chisholm and called it a day I was like “wait, you think you only needed one guy?” If we had added a proper cleanup hitter at LF or 1B so we could move Wells down the lineup that would have finished the job.
The thing is, though, these guys can get their bat on the ball, and that is a huge difference from what we’re used to. Just being able to foul off pitches and put a ball in play is massive in October. The old lineups couldn’t do that. They just struck out all the time.
My sense is that the level of competition is really helping us, though, and I would imagine the warts Al is talking about will manifest against the Mets or Dodgers. Hopefully by then Judge is mashing the ball.
The pitching looks legitimately sick, though.
I wouldn’t expect an uptick in focus. KAT has a reputation for being one of the least focused players in the NBA. And unlike that soft nonsense, I think this one is well deserved. One of the ways it manifests itself seems to be stupid, costly, and untimely fouls.
My case for optimism is I think Bridges can replace Randle as our 2nd scorer and playmaker, leaving KAT to be a devastating 3rd option, floor spacer, and finisher.
IMO the KAT trade was almost certainly the correct basketball move.
I said this recently. I think in trades we tend to underrate the value of getting the best player and fit (I know I have in the past). Some players are way more replaceable than others.
We may have overpaid for OG in the trade and overpaid him in salary after that, but he’s the perfect player for us. It would be extremely difficult to find another OG.
IMO we overpaid for Bridges in the trade, but he’s the perfect player for us. It would be extremely difficult to find another Bridges.
We gave up a lot for KAT, but he’s the best player in the trade and a perfect fit.
Almost no individual player is perfect on both sides, but you can build a team of extremely talented and skilled players that create an almost perfect team on both sides. We have some VERY good players that fit like a glove.
Don’t forget the Randlesque TOs. He’s going to commit some really frustrating ones from time to time.
I agree that KAT is no softer than Charles Smith, you know, that guy who compiled gaudy stats on another team who was going to put us over the top?
Seriously, it’s more about losing DDV than anything else. I think DDV became a middle-class version of Klay, and at $12M AAV was one of the most valuable, i.e. underpaid non-star players in the NBA. I believe that he could have been a Sixth Man of the Year candidate. To give that up for whatever marginal improvement you get with KAT over Randle seems shortsighted to me.
Not to mention, is KAT even better than Randle? I sure hope so, but given that this site has a long history of vastly underestimating Randle, and that playing in NYC is a lot different than playing in Minneapolis, I will wait and see before passing judgment. Familiarity breeds contempt. Let’s see how KB reacts when the real games start and KAT’s very real flaws, however you want to characterize them, are exposed, and the media pounces. Last I checked, New Yorkers tend to have high expectations for $50+M AAV that cost them a perennial all-NBA candidate and a beloved and vastly underpaid role player who just happened to be part of the Nova connection.
I think they have confidence that Deuce can slide into the ābench DDVā role. Our main problem is still being able to put a ābigā next to KAT if need be. Precious is clearly the best option we have right now (and he still has a bit of upside), but we could use an upgrade there if possible.
Iām even less confident in Payne/Shamet. My fear is that Thibs will be tempted to use a 7-man rotation all season and will break all his new toys.
I love me some Deuce, bud don’t see him as an analog for DDV. Folks keep talking about DDV’s “bench” role, but I think he would have been more than that. Most importantly, I think he was a great insurance policy in the case that any of the starters missed significant time with injury, especially OG. I also think that the “death lineup” with Randle at C on the floor with Brunson, OG, Bridges and DDV would have been ridiculously fun to watch…specifically because of Donte’s shooting. Alas!
For 1 season, right? Then Randle will opt out and be paid just like KAT.
Honestly it’s the Bridges trade that is more questionable.
We had Donte and Deuce making $16M combined manning the 2 guard position. And it’s probably Josh Hart’s best position, too.
From that incredible position of strength, and knowing that Isaiah Hartenstein was likely a goner, we emptied the clip to get Bridges instead of just being patient and shopping for a new center.
It was at that point that basically said “I don’t believe in the team that just won 50 games” and blew it up. The KAT trade was a natural progression from there.
“For 1 season, right? Then Randle will opt out and be paid just like KAT.”
I don’t think DDV+Randle’s salary will be more than KAT’s salary. My guess was that Randle would earn $40M AAV in 2026-27, and that plus DDV would be 52.5M. KAT will make $57M that year. And folks like TNFH believed that Randle’s next contract would be for considerably less than $40M.
THIS.
This is why Leon made this move. That and we needed a center.
I can see your point, Hubie, about the Mikal trade being more questionable. But counter point with him and OG we have arguably two of the best defensive/most versatile wings in the NBA. And Mikal is capable of being the primary scorer in stretches.
The thing is, for all the hand wringing about losing DDV, trading Randle, losing iHart, giving up a bunch of picks for Mikal….end of the day we have on paper an incredibly efficient and modern offense with 4 plus 3 point shooters (including a stretch big who is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league). Plus two huge wing defenders who can guard multiple positions. The starting 5 is like the perfect compliment for Brunson. You can see Leon’s vision for hte team at work here.
I agree that on paper it was a significant overpay for Bridges. But the Nova thing was fun and it broke the streak of not doing business with the Nets so it was kind of tolerable. I also think that it kind of balanced out getting Brunson for essentially nothing…normally that’s the kind of player that costs you a million picks.
And that’s why I felt so strongly that Leon would not break up the Nova thing for at least a year under any circumstances. Boy was I wrong on that!
Yeah, I was looking forward to this greatly. When people talk about how Randle can’t shoot they seem to be missing the point that Randle would be handling the ball in this lineup, against some poor plodding center, with all 4 of those shooters moving around him. How the hell could Porzingis or Embiid handle Randle in those spots? They’d be dead meat. And on the other end we could get away with it by using OG to guard those centers.
Jalen Brunson was shooting something like 45% from 3 playing off Randle as the secondary ballhandler last year. Being able to have someone else run the offense for a few minutes would have been a huge bonus for him.
I think Minnesota is going to love this lineup when Gobert sits: Randle, Edwards, Donte, McDaniels, Reid. It’s essentially the same lineup we would have run with Edwards as Brunson.
I agree they have to deliver for the trades to be winning trades, so let’s see how they do.
I think Mikal’s value for us is on the defensive side, with him and OG making life hard for whatever wings the other team throw at us, including Tatum and Brown.
Donte was able to attempt 50% more 3s per 36 than Deuce. That’s a huge difference. Deuce is good but he needs a major leap to catch Donte. Donte was a starter, not a bench player.
There’s a reason Randle was never played at C. Randle is a complete non-factor when it comes to rim protection or off-ball defense. KAT may be a bad defender at C, but you can’t run drop at all with Randle there. It was purely speculative and not likely to work, even if it was intriguing.
Yeah, Thibs.
“The thing is, for all the hand wringing about losing DDV, trading Randle, losing iHart, giving up a bunch of picks for Mikalā¦.end of the day we have on paper an incredibly efficient and modern offense with 4 plus 3 point shooters (including a stretch big who is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league). Plus two huge wing defenders who can guard multiple positions. The starting 5 is like the perfect compliment for Brunson. You can see Leonās vision for hte team at work here.”
Oh, for sure! I’m not saying it can’t work or it won’t work. Just that I am not confident at the moment that it will work better than it would have if Leon had just stood pat. I will need convincing, but will keep an open mind and root my ass off. I hope that there will come a time in the near future when I am able to say, “Damn, what was I worried about?”
But for now, I am definitely worried.
By posting a 150 offensive rating, presumably.
I mean, at this point everything is about trying to win a championship, so I get the worry!
We could easily have a much better regular season than last year but still lose in the 2nd round. That leap is the hardest one to make, IMO. We’re going into the season with a new starting line up but most likely there isn’t going to be some big OG level trade that completely changes the team mid season. So we could easily win 55 or even 60 games this year and it all be for naught. We just won’t know till we get to the playoffs. But the same would be true if we stood pat.
If Embiid is putting up a 150 ORtg against OG Anunoby I’d like that $200M back.
It seemed to work ok in the postseason, though, both for the Knicks and Raptors.
And I’m sorry but I just don’t see Kristaps Porzingis domi
-nating Julius Randle in the paint. Randle, like Towns, has always been a pretty good one-on-one defender against size.
Towns can put up a .625 TS% on 25 USG in his sleep. For his career thatās a 111 TS+ on 26.8 USG. Julius Randle is not sniffing anywhere close to that. As a second option on offense Randle is simply not in Townsā class, even when you factor in Townsā higher assisted basket rate.
Thereās also the issue of screen setting: the Knicks had a dire lack of players who could set a good screen before Towns arrived, and that problem is now solved. Towns will be the Knicksā most productive and prolific screener.
I also think Townsā skill set will age better than Randleās. Randle puts a lot of wear and tear on his body with his playing style.
Hubs, interesting take but let me ask you this
Given KP’s injury history, would you rather have him chasing KAT around the perimeter trying to keep him off the 3 point line or would you rather have him remain in the paint against Randle?
He’s going to take more of a pounding against his chest, etc…if he’s defending Randle in the paint but he’s more likely to twist a knee or an ankle if he’s running around trying to guard KAT on the perimeter.
Not saying this cause I want KP to get hurt, just the reality of the two situations. I think an argument can be made for both.
Not to be a Charles Smith stan, but how about a reality check. Compare apples with apples, please.
Charles Smith DID compile gaudy stats his first 3 years in the league after being the 3rd pick in his draft. Not in the same zip code as KAT, but strong numbers. Smith’s first 3 seasons he was healthy scoring 16.7, 21.1 and 20.0 and playing between 71-78 games per season.
Then in October of 1991 he suffered a knee injury in an pre season game and was never the same. in the 91-2 season with the Clips his ppg dove to 14.6 and his rpg fell from 8.2 to 6.1
THEN the Knicks decided to trade Mark Jackson and 2 , #1 picks for damaged goods.
They played a 6’10” 230 pound guy with a damaged knee out of position as a small forward and he never scored more the 12.7 ppg again. Then Oakley fell on his knees in 1993 necessitating another knee surgery which completely finished him off as a good player.
Its fine to compare players, but it is disingenuous to compare KAT to the Knicks version of Charles Smith.
Hubert, a week ago you were saying he couldn’t handle 4s. Now you think he should be playing 5s?
For the record, Iām not comparing Deuce to what Donte was last year but what he wouldāve been this year.
Overall, Iām in favor of the trade. Randle was almost 30 and an injury risk. Donte is great, but Mikal is an all-world defender when engaged. KAT is in a league of his own when it comes to shooting bigs.
If all that happens is we have a top-4 team for the next three years, then so be it. Itās hard to ask for much more than that.
IMO salaries are the lowest factor on the totem pole right now. Salaries matter a lot in the early stages of a rebuild because you are trying to fit enough firepower on the team to contend. We are past that stage. We have more than enough efficient scoring in the starting unit.
We need an above average 3rd string C because Mitch is constantly hurt and Towns misses more games than is ideal. Our 3rd string C is going to have to start at times and not just be a backup. So he has to be pretty good. I don’t think Sims is the answer, but maybe Huk will be.
We may need a 6th man scorer off the bench. Personally, I don’t Deuce is the answer to replace DDV, but between Payne, Shamet, Deuce, Kolek and one of the starters (probably Mikal) the bench should be OK for now with various combinations of that.
We can get what we need with what we have to trade including some kind of move with Mitch (maybe even a 3 team deal) that addresses one of these issues. The money is a Dolan problem not a team building issue.
For 82 games a season, I don’t like OG against 4s.
For a few minutes a half, in the playoffs, when we run our death lineup, I would be happy putting OG against Embiid.
Embiid operates largely from the elbow and is usually best covered by strong perimeter defenders.
Sounds like an extremely niche scenario that would have minimal positive impact, if any.
And the answer to your earlier question is that KP and Embiid would stand in the paint and watch Randle brick a bunch of jumpers.
Consider what I said, Swifty:
“I was really looking forward to the Randle death lineups.”
I was expressing sadness and disappointment that I won’t get to see something I was very excited about. It’s not “I would rather have Randle than Towns.”
All your points are valid. I would rather have Towns than Randle in those situations.
It’s the same formula the Warriors used with their first death lineup, and that had a pretty large impact.
Green is (or at least was) was one of the best defensive players in the league. You can get away with a lot more with him at C than with Randle.
We’re talking about OG, Strat, not Randle.
Randle would have been the Harrison Barnes defensively in a death lineup; OG is the Draymond Green.
“We could easily have a much better regular season than last year but still lose in the 2nd round. That leap is the hardest one to make, IMO. Weāre going into the season with a new starting line up but most likely there isnāt going to be some big OG level trade that completely changes the team mid season. So we could easily win 55 or even 60 games this year and it all be for naught. We just wonāt know till we get to the playoffs. But the same would be true if we stood pat.”
Yeah, this is sort of where I am at, swift. It’s not like the trade turned a sure-fire finals situation into a crap shoot. And I’m not blaming Leon for rolling the dice once iHart left and Mitch was out and couldn’t be counted on. I just think we are going to miss DDV’s shooting and spirit, Randle’s shot creation and physicality, and iHart’s defense and decision-making, and I have never been a fan of KAT’s all-around game. Again, I’m not panicking or despondent. More wistful and disoriented than anything else, kind of still in shock that this happened. It will take some time for me to fully buy in, but if KAT proves to be everything folks are making him out to be, I’ll be as happy as anyone here!
The Warriorsā death lineup relied pretty heavily on Draymond Green being awesome at a bunch of different things. I guess Julius is kind of a destitute manās Draymond Green if you kind of squint at him hard enough, but the real Draymond Green he aināt.
Green also played point guard on offense in that lineup. Itās a model not easily reproduced.
Again…
I suggested that OG ANUNOBY could have filled Draymond Green’s role on defense, not Julius Randle.
Here is the DDV clipā¦
https://x.com/legendz_nba/status/1845929430067159412?s=46&t=0wqff4cNt-sCGcDs-uMExw
Co- sign what JK47 said above. I donāt think Randle will age well and I do think his next contract will be a disaster.
Draymond proved repeatedly, over oceanic sample sizes, that he could guard bigs very effectively. OG Anunoby is rather more unproven in this regard. Then you have the offensive side of the ball, where Draymond was one of the better playmaking bigs of his generation. Itās just very difficult to replicate what Draymond did in that lineup, even if you platoon his responsibilities out to a couple different players.
Randle at the 5 and our own version of the death lineup may have been somewhat effective, but for me that wasnāt enough reason to hold onto Randle. Heās 30, heās going to get expensive very soon, heās very streaky, doesnāt shoot as well as youād like, and he relies on a bruising style of play that is probably not going to age very well. He might have another good year or two in him but the decline phase/escalating salary ratio does not look very promising to me.
Towns has better āold manā skills. Shooting. Being tall. Pick and roll play. He should age better.
So we’re basically asking three related questions:
1)Are Bridges and KAT combined enough of an upgrade over DDV and Julius to make both deals worth it? (iHart should not be part of the equation, because he was gone from the moment Leon didn’t add a third year or team option to his initial deal.)
2)If they aren’t both worth it, then is one more worth it than the other?
3)Should we have just run it back with last year’s team and hoped for better health, plus some lesser center we could get for a few picks, rather than everything we sent to Brooklyn?
On the first, I don’t know yet. On paper, it’s an incredible starting lineup. But we’re now very thin, and there are some legitimate questions about KAT’s defense and about his mental makeup. (Which, to me, is different from toughness.)
On the second, I would argue you can’t do the KAT trade without the Bridges trade, because the only thing that makes losing DDV palatable is that Bridges was going to take over on the wing, and would significantly reduce the number of minutes DDV could play. Having KAT without DDV or Bridges feels untenable, lineup-wise. Getting Bridges but not KAT would be like a supercharged version of running it back, in that we wouldn’t be giving up any significant players (other than, again, not having iHart around) and would be adding one of the best complementary pieces in the entire NBA.
On the third, I have no idea who was available whom we could have gotten for, say, two of our picks and one of the fugazi picks, plus Bogey for salary matching. But in that version, we would also be relying on Randle coming back to full health, January being real, etc.
I think Randle has shown over a large body of work that he’s pretty good playmaker from the forward position, too.
Yes, that team is extremely hard to replicate. It was one of the greatest teams of all time. But we actually had a reasonable facsimile.
On offense:
Brunson = Steph
Donte = Klay
Bridges = Iggy
OG = Barnes
Randle = Green
On defense:
Brunson = Steph
Donte = Klay
Bridges = Iggy
Randle = Barnes
OG = Green
We even have Mitch as Bogut (but I will not compare Precious to David Lee).
I thought that was worth seeing before we blew it up, and all these “that team would have been lit up on defense” comments don’t hold much water.
Ever the optimist, I think KAT is going to prove a lot of doubters wrong on many different levels. I’m predicting his defense, rebounding and toughness will be better than most expect.
I have no real logical reason for believing this other than my gut tells me he’s at the point in his career where he’s matured.
He came into the league an 18 year old number one draft pick who had probably been coddled all through high school and had physical gifts that made the game come easy to him. He went through years of losing in Minny, being the guy. Had the whole Thibs/Butler drama where he finally tasted the playoffs but got called out for being immature. Took a step back career wise after that. Had a lot of bad family shit happen to him during Covid and then finally got to be part of a winning team where he was no longer “the man.” Then shockingly traded. I’m sure he’s still disoriented as well but now he’s in a fantastic situation with a real shot at winning a title. He’s no longer a kid. He’s coming back to the area where he grew up too. And he’s working with a coach who demands excellence but this time KAT knows what the expect from Thibs and I think Thibs has also mellowed a bit and is going to want to make this work because of how things ended last time.
And he’s got Jalen as the leader and example. Edwards is great and is going to be a superstar, but Jalen is on the next level as far as leadership and leading by example with his work ethic and willingness to sacrifice for the team.
I think we’re in for some very fun times these next few years. KAT and Jalen are going to be special together. Mikal and OG are gonna wreck opposing team’s offenses. We’re gonna rain 3’s on teams. It’s gonna be fun.
I will always respect and love Randle and, to a lesser degree, Donte. Losing them was tough. But once the dust settles, I think what we’re about to experience is going to be next level.
“I donāt think Randle will age well and I do think his next contract will be a disaster.”
Yet his contract will likely be 10s of millions less AAV than KAT’s. He is one of the most conditioned athletes in the NBA, with a LeBron-like offseason work ethic. His injuries have either been freakish (shoulder) or commonplace (ankle). And KAT hasn’t exactly been an iron man over the past 5 years. And remember, we’re talking about Julius plus Donte. How’s his contract gonna age?
“Towns has better āold manā skills. Shooting. Being tall. Pick and roll play. He should age better.”
This is true, but mainly in terms of trade value. I think KAT is at worst a great salary cap placeholder. I am way more confident that he can be unloaded in three years for good players, picks, and/or cap space than Julius. All things being equal, bigs who can shoot always hold their value more than any position except maybe point guards (see: CP3, Conley, Lowry.) It will definitely be easier to pivot away from KAT than from Randle. I’ve pointed that out before as a significant plus.
Lol friggin Jetsā¦
I’m “only” asking (or is it praying?) for a Finals appearance. š
I’m in the process of turning my son into a Knicks fan, and to get to the Finals would be of great help. š
He already is a Knicks fan on the east, but he’s still a Nuggets fan overall because of the Joker. If he could taste the feeling of being super close to winning it all, like we did in 1994 when we were up 3-2 against the Rockets, i’ll succeed.
Who cares at this stage other than Dolan?
That’s the point I was trying to make earlier.
At this point we want the best possible player at each position even if we are ovepaying a couple of them. Getting good value contracts can be critical when you are first building the team because you have to fit enough fire power under the cap and may want to make major deals, but once the team is built they don’t matter as much. As long as we are under the 2nd apron and still have enough flexibility to tinker with the bench, we are good. Even if they decide Hart is not ideal as a starter, they have assets that can be moved to make a change to the starting lineup.
Brother you were arguing the kat-JB team is going to get lit up on defense 24 hours ago.
I think the team would have been fun with Randle at the 5, and I was looking forward to seeing that. But we also would have been starting the season with Jericho Sims playing center, and he is not Andrew Bogut.
I agree that it makes more sense if you think OG can be as effective defending Cs as Green. I’m not sure that’s true, but let’s assume it is. I’d still rather have KAT for 36 minutes than a chances to see “IF” that death lineup would be so valuable the net of everything is better than having Towns. Even if that “death lineup” was very good against some matchups., it’s not we were going to get it 36 minutes every night or even every game.
“Who cares at this stage other than Dolan?”
If it works perfectly, nobody except maybe the players on the team who are better than him but making 10’s of million less than him, like Jalen and Mikal.
If it is not working specifically because of him, and the rest of the league sees that, it becomes a huge issue. First, we are in NY where the media will paint him the $50M dollar man, and if he doesn’t live up to that salary, he will be lambasted. Is he mentally tough enough to fight through that? Randle proved that he was, and that was at a much lower salary.
Whoa we play Charlotte tonight. Sweet.
Yeah, Julius “fought his way through” a bunch of stuff all the way to a .553 career Knick TS% and two dreadful, awful playoff performances. With mediocre defense.
I’d rather drop the “fighting” and just go instead with “putting the ball in the basket very efficiently.”
I get the “January” and the “death lineup” wistfulness for “what might have been,” but it’s both (a) massively overrated; and (b) unfalsifiable.
I feel the takes on Randle are bordering on some real revisionism. Yes, Randle was playing well last season before his injury, but that doesn’t erase the fact that he was a productive yet very frustrating player. Did we all forget how bad he looked in the playoffs before, or how up and down his shot was, or the endless stupid turnovers when he tried to create offense?
I don’t want to shit on the guy because I personally like him, but as a player for the Knicks I’m pretty sure I won’t miss the feeling that everytine he gets the ball he might score or spin into a triple team and cough up the ball, complaining to the refs instead of going back to defend. I don’t think we’ll miss his playmaking because his playmaking was bad, and that’s all before he had a major injury, we don’t know how he’ll come back from it.
KAT has his flaws and everyone has discussed them extensively, but his qualities give us a much higher ceiling than we had before, and teams looking for a finals appearance should be trying to raise the ceiling as much as possible. It might work terribly in the end, he might get injured often or suck terribly at defense to the point where he gives back his offensive production, but the point remains that for me, we’re inching closer and closer to an actual contender with the moves that were made.
So the plan was to play OG Anunoby at the 5, full-time, against Joel Embiid…? And do what, exactly, for rim protection?
Dunno guys, I guess we’ll just have to see how it plays out. A lot of the objections seem to be based on armchair psychology of KAT and a kind of romanticization of Randle, who I liked a lot and wish nothing but the best but is literally one of the worst performers in the history of the NBA playoffs.
There’s not really a KAT problem you can highlight to which “that would be an even bigger problem with Randle” is not an accurate rejoinder. That doesn’t mean the trade was a no-brainer since we also gave up Donte*, but it makes concerns about the specific Randle/KAT swap difficult for me to understand.
*I am confidently pro-trade because I think the Randle-to-KAT upgrade is significant while the DDV-to-Deuce/Mikal tradeoff is well worth the former.
Jet fans out there, are you excited about acquiring Davante Adams? I’m a Raider fan and I think that was a good trade for both teams. Seems like you guys might as well take one big swing while Rodgers can still play, and Adams was never going to be a part of a good Raiders team anyway. The Raiders get a ton of cap space back and now can happily tank the night away in hopes of landing a quarterback, plus they get a third rounder (possibly second) thrown in as well.
Yeah, I mean… why not just do the “death lineup” with Brunson/McBride/Bridges/Anunoby/KAT instead, and use Anunoby to guard 5’s if you don’t think KAT can do it. That’s a legit 5-out lineup and I actually think we will see a fair amount of that lineup. THAT death lineup seems superior to the “January” death lineup with Randle and DDV in it. Better on both sides of the ball.
This was in a ringer bit about the Wolves:
I don’t know how much this really matters, because if Randle is scoring on those possessions efficiently it’s sort of irrelevant how long he holds it, but there are probably some small benefits to kat being more decisive with the ball than Julius was
Not really, I have mentally checked out of this season already. Adams would have been useful 6 weeks ago if he has something left in the tank.
I’d be pretty surprised if an otherwise inefficient player was actually efficient in his nail-pounding, ball-stopping possessions — but I guess anything’s possible and it seems like an answerable empirical question in any event.
Last year I thought Randle was pretty efficient if you tossed the games at the start of the year where he was clearly not right, but I might be misremembering
Thibs wouldn’t have played the “death lineup” much anyway.
In all honesty, I think Thibs is going to have a lot of gritted-teeth moments this year with this team, wistful for the rosters that played hustlebunny Moneyball — particularly if the regular season has the kind of bumps it might have.(*) He can put whatever public lipstick on it he wants, but this is not in any sense his proven comfort zone.(**)
(*) On the way to a team that, if healthy, will be a very tough playoff out.
(**) And we should expect there to be not insignificant similar sentiment here on KB. This shapes up to be a turbulent regular season, which just shows again how wise God (or whomever) was in inventing the best-of-7, 16-team, playoff bracket.
While it sounds good on paper, I was never confident a line up with Julius at the 5 was going to work. I love Julius, but he is not adaptable, he plays one way. He’s good playmaker as he passes out of double teams well. But when tasked to “be” a playmaker with the second unit in January he couldn’t execute (small sample size admittedly, but thank god). He adapted his game to cater for JB, but I think that was more JB figuring out how to mesh with him to get the best outcome. I’d actually like to be proven wrong, because the trade occurred and unless we meet him in the finals I would be very happy if he plays well, gets paid, and is content.
Iām not really a fan, but they need linemen a lot more than WRs rn.
Randle could create his own shot, and did that more often than Towns does, but really “let Julius cook” is not a very efficient brand of basketball. At one time we played a low-turnover, iso-heavy brand of ball but it seems like we’re doing less of that, and as a result I’d expect to see a pretty big surge in our team eFG%.
The Knicks have been a poor eFG% team for so long, I have kind of forgotten what it looks like to be above average. The last time the Knicks were an above average eFG% team, Mike Woodson was manning the sidelines and Metta World Peace was on the team.
It’s no issue at all.
Brunson volunteered to take less up front early so we could add someone just like KAT. In fact, since his father is a coach he may have known they had KAT in mind and it was a factor in his decision.
Mikal is going to get his money.
Jalen wants to win. That’s why he did what he did with his contract. Growing up in the NBA means maybe having some perspective on that relative to career earnings which, one way or the other, are going to be more then enough for generations to come. Being a champion lasts forever (and probably correlates to post-career earnings as well).
The regular season/playoff conversation is odd to me. I seen to have the flip perspective of everyone here in believing the regular season will be a bit of a trial for us but we are far better positioned to go deep in the playoffs.
I’ve said all I have to say on the matter, nothing left but platitudes…what’s done is done, it is what it is, the proof is in the pudding, and all of that stuff. One thing I promise you all is that I will be 100% all in on this group and will give everyone in the orange and blue the full benefit of the doubt until we are either hoisting the O’Brien trophy or are eliminated from the playoffs. Let the season begin!
Sports world is having a day, isn’t it?
Adams to the Jets as if that will save them. Pssst…Ambassador Woody! Though he’s been “demoted”, Hackett is still there and Rodgers still has too much power! Oof..
Lindor not even nominated to be a Gold Glove finalist? Seriously yal..HWHAT IN THE ENTIRE FUCK??
Jerrah has to threaten his hometown radio show because they asked him tough questions for once. Shit is comedy..
Because while thereās a lot of good shooters in that lineup, none of them have Donteās quick trigger or high 3PAr. Both of those things are critical to any death lineup.
That’s the spirit! š š§”š
PS: And i’ll remember you of this… if at some point KAT is having 3 or 4 bad games in a row! š
For those among us that are talented, here’s a competition you might be interested in. š
I’m anticipating JK performing at MSG on game 7 of the NBA Finals! š
So it will just have to be a “critically injurying” line up.
5 three point shooters who all shoot near or over 40 percent from 3 with Jalen probing the paint and a KAT/Brunson pick and roll option plus OG, Mikal and Deuce being able to disrupt passing lanes for steals, cut to the basket, etc….will be deadly.
Seriously, I’m just excited to see the offense this season. Once everyone gets on the same page it’s gonna be REALLY fun to watch.
Donte shot .401 from 3PT last year, Deuce shot .410. Donte got up 10.8 trey attempts per 36 minutes, but Deuce wasn’t all that far behind at 7.2. That just doesn’t seem like that massive a downgrade. Deuce is pretty good!
You also replace Julius Randle’s .311 3PT% with KAT’s high volume .416 in this scenario. I would think that alone would more than offset whatever “quick trigger” kind of shooting you lose going from Donte to McBride.
I personally think the “death lineup” we actually have and that will probably actually play a fair number of minutes is superior to the hypothetical one with Randle and DDV in it.
I’m pretty much with JK’s position on this lineup (and with him playing at halftime of the finals). I do want to see Deuce replicate last year this year, as it felt very much like found money last year and this year he’s got some weight on his shoulders. But I have faith.
On the other hand, why does my son now listen to Ski Mask the Slump God…
It could be, JK, but I think it depends on Bridges and how well he handles being a ballhandler. Those off-ball actions we had for Brunson while Randle handled the ball were sick. The only guy who can replicate that is Bridges.
I think everyone looks at this like KAT is coming in for Randle. I see it as Bridges coming in for Randle, KAT coming in for Hartenstein, and Hart replacing Donte (which negates everything KAT for Hartenstein provides).
If Brunson and Bridges can maintain or surpass Brunson and Randle (RIP Brundle), then everything should be great. But Julius Randle is a pretty lofty bar for Mikal Bridges.
Brundges?
Phillyās really gonna have to thread the kneedle this year if they are to be taken seriously.
I like how nobody is willing to post after Clarence’s play.
Bridson?
Brinson is your winner.
We had a good offense last year without any Randle, so if Brinson isn’t Brundle I’m not sure it’s going to keep us from having a good offense.
š„
āSucka sāt man,ā Rick Brunson told DiVincenzo after the game when the former Knicks guard approached the New York bench, according to ESPN. āThat was some sucka sāt.ā
āIāma let you live brother,ā said DiVincenzo. āYou talked to me. I was talking to Thibs,ā DiVincenzo said, referencing Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau. āYou want to bring it out here for the camera.ā
[Early in the game] Rick Brunson, who was sitting next to Thibodeau, was seen getting animated on the sideline, but itās unclear what he said.
āThatās what happens when they let you run the show,ā DiVincenzo said. āLet daddy be in charge.ā
Starters aren’t playing tonight so I guess we’ll get a look at pacome
Is Thibs sick or something?
LOL
Seems weird if true. As has been stated here before, the starter cohesion quality ain’t there yet. We’re winning because a) we’re mostly playing crappy teams in the preseason, and b) we have quality talent that rises above the general running around; oh, and c) Browns (Townson?).
I’d think even just a first quarter run would be useful.
Maybe because we actually need to figure out the bottom of our depth-chart. Usually we have a locked and loaded (for better or worse) roster and rotation.
āGet a good look at some of these other guys & give the bench some extended minutesā
-Thibs
I’m seven days it’s my birthday and we beat the Celtics!
Rick Brunson is rarely in the news for good reasons
Idk if Sims survives this season.
I love the mustache and hate the chin fuzz for Sims. Heās gotta fix that before the season starts
Charlotte stinks but it’s probably promising our bench can hang with them
Seems like Dollar Tree Donte might actually be in the rotation
Appreciate the Guardians paying tribute to Luis Castillo
God wells is awful
In that spot I would have Wells bunt.
I heard good things about Wells here but it doesnāt look like this is gonna be his month.
Also it feels like Aaron Judge has come to the plate in the first inning with two on every single game now.
Charlotte has no semblance of an offensive scheme lol
Too many men LOB…it will come back to bite them in the butt…
is that Taj?
Presh with the triple!
Hukolec!
I’m gonna bite my tongue in regards to how embarrassing these Yankee at bats with RISP have been during the playoffs.
Shametās losing his job in real time. Dadietās in!
Yanks whole October offense is solo HRs, bases loaded walks, wild pitches with a runner on 3rd, and dropped fly balls.
And Aaron Boone be like āif aināt brokeā¦ā
Thank god the pitching is fire.
Jeez the Hornets stink.
Hukporti with the Michael Jordan jam!
HucDadiet slamming and jamming!
That Huk one was nuts
The amount Yankees fans complain boggles the mind
The Huk dunk was nice
Look at that bottom of the order, Al!!
I’ve wanted Verdugo benched since early August but he’s stepped it up in October.
Kolek makes things happen
Iām not even watching the Yankees game I canāt bear to watch Judge looking like this
Hubert is getting the Bizarro World version of the Yankees order
Kolek is feisty on the boards. Pretty three-ball from Dadiet.
The Indians have looked pathetic since the first pitch of this series. I wouldnāt be surprised if they get boatraced and never lead a single one of these games, thatās how terrible they look.
Edit: Guardians. Old habits die hard
Lmao Pacome with the 4 point play!
PAC-man!
Pacome Dadiet out there wrecking foos
Wowwwww
(Juan Soto just got IBBād so they could pitch to Judge with the bases loaded)
The Hornets and the Guardians are both unwatchable
“This is pre-season basketball at its finest” made me choke.
It’s funny Owen cause as I’ve said alot of my complaining about the Yankees here is said in jest but I was listening to the Michael Kay Show on my phone today and many of the calls were Yankee fans complaining about how they’re hitting. I was like damn are they really serious I mean shit who cares if every game is 1-0 as long as they win it’s the playoffs no style points needed!
TJ looks fairly smooth.
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