[ESPN] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 16:00:00 GMT
- How the Knicks’ and Wolves’ unique problems led to this unlikely trade
- Karl-Anthony Towns stat sheet: 15 key numbers after trade to Knicks
- Who won the Knicks-Wolves blockbuster? And how does it impact the NBA’s title picture?
- Are the Suns going to be right about the NBAs 2nd apron? Or is everyone else?
- Julius Randles new look revealed as mom acknowledges Knicks trade on Instagram: Lets go Wolves!
[New York Post] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 23:29:00 GMT
- Knicks 2024-25 training camp breakdown: Roster battles, rookies and newcomers
- Breaking down Knicks 2024-25 roster heading into NBA training camp
- 3 Knicks facing the most questions this season
- New York Knicks important preseason dates for 2024-25
- Jalen Brunsons MVP Hope: Knicks Training Camp Preview
[Yahoo Sports] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 15:04:49 GMT
The NBA Starting Lineup Power Rankings: Can Knicks’ new-look lineup compete with Celtics?
[New York Post] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 20:14:00 GMT
- Exclusive | Julius Randle says fans wanted him ‘to be a Knick forever,’ before shocking trade to Minnesota: ‘Never go anywhere’
- Knicks will be forever indebted to Julius Randle, who was the first brick in a patient path to contention
- Knicks Rumors: Julius Randle Had Made ‘No Progress’ on Contract Talks Before Trade
- Julius Randle was reportedly on trade block after no ‘progress’ on Knicks contract extension
- Julius Randle is a Knicks Legend
[New York Daily News] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 15:00:34 GMT
Karl-Anthony Towns trade analysis: Knicks’ roster-building options
[Bleacher Report] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 22:07:30 GMT
Knicks Waive Marcus Morris Sr., Chuma Okeke amid Rumored Karl-Anthony Towns Trade
[New York Post] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 16:25:00 GMT
- Josh Hart’s Chelsea anger sparks Karl-Anthony Towns Knicks uproar
- The Knicks finally made the move for Karl-Anthony Towns. Whats next? – The Athletic
- Knicks’ Josh Hart Clarifies Cryptic Post Was About Chelsea Match, Not Towns Trade
- Knicks Forward Confuses Fans With Four-Word Post After Karl-Anthony Towns Trade
- Knicks’ Josh Hart Clarifies Cryptic Social Media Post
[New York Daily News] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 13:18:10 GMT
Kristian Winfield: Knicks lack championship-caliber depth after Karl-Anthony Towns trade
[Hardwood Houdini] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 10:00:00 GMT
Massive Knicks, Wolves trade could foreshadow a scary reality for Celtics
[Bleacher Report] – Sun, 29 Sep 2024 01:18:45 GMT
Mitchell Robinson Reacts to Karl-Anthony Towns Trade with IG Photo: ‘Longest Knick’
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 13:32:07 GMT
Keita Bates-Diop heading to Timberwolves in Towns-Knicks trade, report says
[New York Daily News] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 17:26:06 GMT
Evaluating the Knicks 11 second-round picks as trade chips
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 16:00:01 GMT
New York Knicks Should Still Sign Center Despite Blockbuster Trade
[New York Post] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 15:24:00 GMT
Earl Monroe opens up about 1973 title, Knicks championship chances
[LakersNation.com] – Sat, 28 Sep 2024 23:30:20 GMT
Timberwolves Trade Karl-Anthony Towns To Knicks For Julius Randle & Donte DiVincenzo
[NBA.com] – Sun, 29 Sep 2024 04:30:40 GMT
30 Teams in 30 Days: New additions strengthen Knicks’ core
122 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.09.29)”
Always eager to keep my job of Director at the Department of Meaningless Informations, Euroleague will introduce a very complex Luxury Tax structure, starting this season with “transitional rules” with the target to go full effect in 2027-28.
I’ll spare you the floor, threshold and penalties rules (if interested you can find them here:
https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/1715894/euroleague-add-its-version-of-luxury-tax-in-the-financial-fair-play-regulations/),
to me the interesting thing is that, while they clearly stole some ideas from the NBA, they introduced some interesting concepts in their calculations (I’m pretty sure Mr. Silver is following this):
– All the indicators will be valued on “net amounts”, to harmonize the impact of the different taxation models used around the continent.
(I’ve a feeling that teams in Florida and Texas would not be happy if this is implemented in the NBA).
– Anchor Players: 2 key players’ contracts chosen by the team who will not be counted on the base remuneration level.
– Extended Tenure Players: 25% of their salary will not be counted if they complete more than three seasons on the same teams.
– Medium-Range Exception: which applies to one contract.
– U23 Players: salary will not be counted (EL isn’t a youngsters-oriented league, historically few of them are usually used for 10+ MPG).
– Long-Term Injured Players: salary will not be counted, until they’re back to active (doesn’t the NHL do something like this?).
Given all the exceptions many think all this will be useless, at first glance it sure gives GMs a lot of room to avoid the penalties…
While we’re here, these are EL’s unoffical top salaries for this season (remember, they’re “net”, so you should more or less double them up to confront with NBA’s ones, who are always “gross”, taxes & pension contributions are heavy in Europe):
1. Sasha Vezenkov $4,1M (Olympiacos)
2. Shane Larkin $3,75M (Anadolu Efes)
3. Mike James $3M (Monaco)
4. Kostas Sloukas $2,8M (Panathinaikos)
5. Walter Tavares $2,7M (Real Madrid)
6. Kevin Punter $2,6M (Barcelona)
7-tie. Κendrick Nunn $2,5M (Panathinaikos)
7-tie. Nikola Mirotic $2,5M (Olimpia Milano)
note that if you take into account the compensation he got for his buyout contract with Barcelona (close to 20M for 2 buyout years) he should be on top of the list by far.
9. Darius Thompson $2,3M (Anadolu Efes)
10-tie. Evan Fournier $2,2M (Olympiacos)
Olympiakos’ fans gave our old pal a warm welcome (also, to no one surprise, he refused a minimum offer from the Wizards, just like Gallo has done so far):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wILBk92eSZ8
10-tie. Nigel Hayes-Davis $2,2M (Fenerbahce)
10-tie. Willy Hernangomez $2,2M (FC Barcelona)
10-tie. Vincent Poirier $2,2M (Anadolu Efes)
14-tie Toko Shengelia $2,1M (Virtus Bologna)
14-tie Juancho Hernangomez $2,1M (Panathinaikos)
16. Markus Howard $2M (Baskonia)
Many other notables (including a bunch of players with Knicks ties, like Rokas Jokubaitis, Mario Hezonja, Luka Samanic, Jerian Grant, Frank Ntilikina, Duane Washington Jr., Ignas Bradzeikis, Luca Vildoza, Mathias Lessort, Leandro Bolmaro and Ognjen Jaramaz) are signed for less or sometimes much less than $2M.
For instance our friend Rokas’ contract with Maccabi calls for $700K.
Euroleague starts Thursday and it should be very fun, I’ve already set my recordings… 😀
https://x.com/krispursiainen/status/1840212041455358215
So 1)Would the Knicks turn around and try to trade Mitch right now, knowing his value has to be at a relatively low ebb with the injury, or would they try to wait for him to get back on the court and start Mitch-ing it up? 2)What kind of player would you want if we traded Mitch? 3)What caliber of player do you think we could get if we traded Mitch now?
Given the rumour that they shopped Julius to Atlanta, Detroit, and Miami, assume they were looking for a durable C (Clint, Duren, Bam?). Perhaps Duren is still a possibility if they included Detroit’s first (which would mean swapping that with the Washington 1st in the TWolves deal).
I doubt that happens as the Detroit pick has a reasonable chance to convey and the WAS pick had effectively 0% chance of conveying
I think it would be now. No sense in waiting if you know he won’t be part of the team. I’m also not sure he could regain enough trade value during a month of play between his return and the deadline. He struggles with cardio and he’ll have been sitting on his butt for the last 9 months (or whatever).
Only reasons to wait are (1) if the offers aren’t where you want them and (2) if you want to wait and see what the team needs after half a season of play.
I wasn’t actually talking about the emotional losses. I was talking about the tangible stuff. We’ve lost a tremendous amount of toughness, aggressiveness, and physicality in Randle, Donte, iHart, and even Grimes. Towns has a lot of skills but he has very little of that. And if we trade Mitch, too, that’s another blow to our strength & toughness
In hindsight, it would be nice to still have Grimes, since we could have used Fournier’s salary in the Mikal deal. Unless some of the rookies are improbably ready to ball out right away, we’re terribly thin at the moment.
If they’re really intent in trading Mitch:
1) I’d rather do it now and use training camp to build chemistry before the season.
2) A rim protector or a murderous wing shooter to cover for Donte’s departure.
3) Mitch has a great contract but he’s probably at the nadir of his trade value. Maybe a midlevel prospect with some one defined skill or a failed prospect that needs a change of scenery.
Or, given the apron situation, could we use Mitch to somehow replenish our draft capital (2 or 3 2nds, a strongly protected 1st?)…
Fully agree. It’s not the same Thibs-though team anymore.
I agree too,
this is not the team that subdued and bludgeoned the Cavs in the spring of 2023.
We have lost a lot of our grit & grind identity in the last trades and Mitch departure would only add to that (leaving only JB, Josh and Deuce from that team, if I’m not wrong).
On the other hand this team is probably more talented, now they must show they can be as tough.
Mikal and OG are plenty tough. But, yes, we’ve definitely shipped out some muscle over the last couple of seasons.
I’m confused as to what a Mitch deal would even look like. At this point I have to imagine other teams view him as a salary slot with any possible basketball contributions being a bonus, so the framework would have to be Mitch + whatever draft capital we have left for a player(s) who makes less than Mitch.
It’s hard to find someone who fits the latter description with more upside than…Mitch.
We could do Mitch + the WAS pick for Timelord, but I don’t see either team being crazy about that.
Well, the thing about players being soft or tough is that ultimately it changes with the narrative and the talent level. Remember when Dirk was too soft to win a title, until he won one and that argument was dead? Just before last season the Celtics were too soft to win, they got bullied by Miami then added Porzingis, notably soft big man who hates rebounding, and then they won the title because they were just better than everyone else.
Talent will win over toughness and grit, specially with how the NBA rules and strategy has evolved over the years. I love having a physical, tough team, but I’d rather have the better players at the end of the day.
Kicking around some other ideas:
-Mitch for Micic and Richards (gets us to 15 and safely under the 2nd apron, though we’d have to choose between Micic and Shamet)
-Mitch, Sims, and WAS 1st for Isaiah Stewart
-Mitch and Deuce for Huerter
Talentum Omnina Vincit….
Why on earth would they trade Mitch at this point when they don’t know what this new alignment looks like and knowing they will need more than one defensively capable large human to work against Embiid?
Our wing defense is much improved as is our outside shooting but our interior defense has definitely taken a step back. Healthy Mitch is actually perfect for us but he can’t stay healthy and waiting till January to find out for sure seems really risky bc he won’t be 100 percent when he gets back conditioning wise.
We still need another big man IMO.
I’m moving to Milan in January. I know nothing of Euroleague. What team should I support to have my heart broken for the next 30 years. Hahaha.
Leon has always been very good at keeping who we are shopping a complete secret. Knowing the phone lines are open for Mitch tells me he will be gone soon.
WOW!
When the time comes let me know,
we could set a meeting if you want and I’ll give you some infos 😉
Are you going to live in the city or in neighborhood?
Wow, KBA, is that permanent? Seems like a big deal. Hope it goes well!
As for trading Mitch now, his trade value is indeed at a nadir, and he’s exactly what we need, so I’m not sure any trades really make sense except for a similar but lesser player who can simply stay healthy. Lukewarm on that – though of course they know more about his ankles then we do.
Walker brings up a good point. Mitch can’t stay healthy. Talent acquisition is one thing. Player management and luck are factors that ultimately decide who is on the floor during a playoff run. Unless Hukporti comes out of the gate swinging- we need one more big man to help Precious and Towns.
I’m still hurting over DDV. He gave us that all time great moment in game 2 against Philadelphia, and all time great Monica McNutt moment calling that play on the Radio. Fuck this heartless business.
Plus he’s one of the best shooters in a shooters league. Him and Randle for KAT is too much.
2 things:
1. If the Knicks trade Mitch l, it had better be for a replacement C and a rotation wing. No way we get that unless there’s a team desperate for an upgrade at C and has a wing to give- preferably a SF. Which kinda goes toward my next thought..
2. After much thought, I kinda want Anunoby as a stretch 4- which would probably create the necessity to start Hart. Thibs could start Deuce, but we’d be small in the backcourt. We’d also have to lean on Payne and Kolek to play really well because they’d be the best lead guards our bench has to offer. Yikes! So we’ve got to grab a rotational wing somehow that can get some buckets off the bench. If we start Hart, Deuce could struggle as the guy. If we start Deuce, Hart would be our best creator on the 2nd unit until Kolek is consistent. Remember- life as a rookie PG is gonna be tough unless you’re an all world talent. It’s probably best to start Achiuwa at the 4 for now and hope to get something out of Sims and Hukporti until Mitch is back
Goal is in the city. Looking for housing over Thanksgiving break. We’ll see.
And, yes, Rama, goal is permanent-ish to let my two kids finish school there ~ 6 years.
Have to stay up all night on Central European Time as the Knicks march to the championship, but I’ll def fly to the Garden for the Finals 😉
Steven Adams and Tari Eason for Mitch and Sims… who says no?
Houston, probably.
KBA, are you Italian? What’s driving the move? I’m asking in part because my mother is pursuing Italian citizenship and will be living in Sicily the second half of next year and I’m thinking of joining her. (Living there gets around the need to make an appointment with the consulate, which is almost impossible to schedule.)
I would do that Adams/Eason for Mitch trade for sure – it perfectly addresses our needs, if leaving us with a similarly unavailable backup C. With the risk… But I can’t see why they’d do it.
Under the radar (I guess) is that aside from the Mitch rumors, the Knicks waived Morris and Okeke. More bigs gone – Shamet looks like a roster lock.
Reasons Against Trading Mitch:
(1) He handles the big bigs
There’s only a handful of guys in the league who can slow down Jokic and Embiid. Mitch is one of those guys.
(2) We lose his rebounding
He can’t hit 3s, but Boston is also vulnerable on the boards. I’d love to see Mitch crunch KP like a frat boy does his fifth empty beer can in a series against Boston. And let’s not forget Cleveland either. We free up Jarrett Allen to cause havoc on the defensive end without Mitch eating him alive.
(3) What if KAT can’t anchor a defense?
If we lose Mitch and KAT at the 5 proves unworkable, where do we get an elite defensive 5? We don’t have the picks or trade capital to make the shift.
On the other hand:
(1) It’s 50/50 we don’t have him anyway
He can’t bang with Embiid or Jokic if he’s not healthy. Even if he starts the series, can we trust him to finish it? (Fuck you, Embiid). With 4 rounds and up to 7 games a round of physical ball, I don’t trust him to hold up for even that much ball.
(2) We should switch out scheme
I’ve always thought that Thibs likes to run a single system for all his personnel. If he runs drop for his starting unit, he’ll run drop for his second unit. If he has a PF that shoots on his 1st unit, he’ll want a similar player on his 2nd unit.
Mitch is the odd man out. Our other C’s are best playing higher up against screens. Mitch is best in drop, which pretty much none of our other C’s should run (except maybe Huk?)
(3) Salary Cap
Mitch doesn’t make a lot of money, but for a backup C who is rarely healthy and a team brushing up against the 2nd apron, is he the best use of salary?
We have a top heavy team and we suddenly need to start being efficient with our backend dollars. We just sacrificed our depth and we can’t even fit 15 players on our roster.
Are we maybe better off spending Mitch’s money on a player who is actually available with some leftover for an emergency pickup?
Listened to Vecenie’s podcast. Apparently Donte was scoring over 20ppg during the final 30-35 games or whatever it was after Julius went down.
I really worry that Donte takes another step forward and basically plays like an all-star next year. Probably won’t happen, more likely he regresses, but he looked damn good down the stretch. If we regret this trade, it’ll be because of Donte.
We talked about this a little yesterday. They had to clear up roster spots so they can re-sign Charlie Brown Jr et al and then ship them to Charlotte. It’s not impossible that one or both of Morris and Okeke get brought back in for camp once the trade is finalized. That the Knicks opted to keep Shamet under contract, though, suggests he has a leg up on them. So let’s do a quick depth chart run-through, to see where we’re weakest at the moment.
PG: Brunson, Kolek, Payne. Unless Jalen is out for a while, I feel as secure about this position as any on the roster.
SG: Hart, Deuce, Shamet. Shamet wouldn’t play barring injury, Hart and Deuce are flawed players I would nonetheless gladly go to war with.
SF: Mikal, Dadiet, McCullar. The rookies likely won’t play at all, and you’ll see Hart or OG in this spot whenever Mikal is on the bench.
PF: OG, Precious, Jacob Toppin. Given OG’s availability questions, this feels thin. Now watch Precious go kick ass for 48 minutes a game for a month or something.
C: KAT, Mitch, Sims, Hukporti. Mitch is out for months, and I don’t trust either Sims or Hukporti to be of use right now.
So it seems like if we’re going to trade Mitch, it would have to be for another big man, if not more than one.
If we trade Mitch we obviously need another center, but who has a good center that they want to trade for Mitchell Robinson?
Re Mitch. No no no no please. I’m on the no-trade team. Unless he’s behaving unseriously in his rehabilitation and prep, we have to give him (and the new physio regime) one more chance to make Mitch (again) the guy in Owen’s profile pic (Owen help?).
Re Italy: Rama, Mrs KBA is European although not Italian. Our kids have EU passports along with their US ones, so we can make the move fairly easily admin-wise.
I’m a US citizen, but, as a “radically secular internationalist” along with my wife, I always wanted to raise our kids with as global a background/outlook as possible. Of course in Europe we may now be steering into the teeth of national-ethnic-essentialism and fascist populism, but we’ve been living in Austin, Texas for the last two years, so some of that may feel familiar? Haha.
In all seriousness — so far — Italy, especially Milan, has seemed a good fit for our family’s NYC-style values set — polyglot hustling strivers just kind of getting on with it. All of that is speaking as a ridiculous and naive American, of course.
If Donte doesn’t regress this whole summer looks stupid. We gave up 5 picks to get someone who plays his position.
Our starting five is going to be exceptional. We now have a center that is better than KP. He’s a hall of famer, everyone. We just added the best C we’ve had since Ewing. This is it. This is the dream. The rebuild is done. We lack depth because we consolidated into a league wrecking top 7 players. Health is everything, obviously. And you need to survive when guys are out. That’s an issue for everyone, but if Karl plays out like Willis Reed, it won’t matter so much who his backup is
“If Donte doesn’t regress this whole summer looks stupid. We gave up 5 picks to get someone who plays his position.“
So, last year’s team, fully healthy, beats this year’s?
Yeah — this and EB’s point.
I have very little eye test on Mikal, but his D has to be a big upgrade if he and Donte match on offense.
Of course I don’t *want* Donte to get worse — I love the guy — but if he levels up … we may have wasted a lot of resources to make a team that looks better on paper only.
Apologies if people have gone Cleaning-the-glass-diving in previous threads but I have to say there are some encouraging signs.
Birds Eye view last year:
Towns on, Gobert off -> ORtg 116.6 (84th %tile), DRtg 109.8 (91st%)
Most frequent lineup there was Ant, NAW, Slomo, Naz Reid, KAT -> that was a bad lineup with DRtg 122 in 300+ possessions.
Drill down to lineups that have KAT at the 5 and that have their best wing defender on the floor (McDaniels) and the DRtg is 108.2 (95th%) – 544 possessions.
Drill down even further (sample size disclaimer blah blah) to KAT + their TWO best wing defenders (McDaniels + NAW) and DRtg goes to 105.7 (98th%). Using Ant instead of NAW and you have roughly the same numbers.
Drill even further down to 3 PLUS perimeter defenders + KAT at the 5 (basically KAT + Ant + NAW + McDaniels) and it’s a 99th percentile defense and a DRtg of 103.1 in 155 possessions.
So I am thinking about the JB + Hart + Bridges + OG + KAT lineups –> those will be just fine defensively IMHO.
Unfortunately Minnesota basically never played Conley + 3 wings + KAT (only 10 possessions). So not totally analogous.
Now these are all 2023-24 numbers. the 2022-23 numbers are not nearly as promising.
This is what I think about KAT – he was 19-23 years old with Thibs the first time. I don’t think Mitch really hit his defensive stride with Thibs until the last 2 seasons (age 24-25 seasons). I think asking a 19-22 year old center with a huge workload on the offensive end to anchor a defense — that is not a recipe for success.
I am of course Captain Optimism, but I think this might be ok.
FYI I am very much against trading Mitch. we are going to need him against bigger teams, if OG gets in foul trouble / hurt, etc. let’s just get him healthy and I think the roster is very well balanced.
I’m clearly despondent about losing Donte because I’m trying to concoct trades that will bring him back… can we trade Mitch and parts for something Minny would prefer to Donte?
Also, re: the Houston trade: how about Mitch and Dadiet for Adams and Eason?
All that said, I’m probably just in favor of keeping Mitch.
I know this isn’t the topic of the day, but the interview with Earl Monroe in the post article linked to above is really good.
Last year’s version was a very good player, borderline all star if he plays like this from the start of the season. I don’t think he regresses, but if he takes another step he’s in superstar territory and I doubt he has it in him.
Donte in 35 games after Randle went down:
38.2 mpg
21 pts
4.4 rebs
3.3 asts
1.6 stls
11.9 3PA/g
.387 3P%
.580 TS%
He won’t get that many minutes, but those are peak Klay numbers on a per game basis and they don’t drop too much if you scale the minutes down.
We got Mikal because of his defense. Donte was a liability in that side when he wasn’t jumping passing lanes. He can’t hold up at the PoA against Maxey/Hali and we didn’t have anyone to guard them, OG was able to do more with his help defense and guarded Siakam in round 2. He also lacks the size to matchup with either of Boston’s wings, and we need to think in terms of beating Boston.
I’m skeptical Bridges is worth the assets we gave but he should solve a specific problem we faced in the playoffs.
But Donte was really damn good last year and might be a better offensive player. I’m not convinced the upgrade was worth the price.
I don’t think it’s a knock on this year’s team to say so, but I do believe last year’s team was better bc it was more balanced had less weak links. This team has a higher upside but Towns’ holes are begging to be exploited and it has few options off the bench to counter them.
Generally speaking teams that are built to outscore their problems are not my favorite.
We all like DDV but where was he playing this year? Post-Mikal Bridges trade, there’s barely 20 MPG for DDV once the roster is healthy. If you’re upset that we traded DDV because you feel that peak DDV last season is what we should expect this season then you should hate the Mikal Bridges trade, not this one.
No doubt Donte is the piece that most of us are upset about.
I think it is generally accepted that we overpaid in this trade.
This FO is very good at winning trades on the margins but when it comes to getting exactly the player they are targeting, I think we’ve seen that they are willing to pay a premium.
Just listened to the Vecenie podcast – and it does make you realize that even the very smart national writers/pundits do not have time to really watch every team. The idea that Randle has shooting gravity (which Vecenie said multiple times) is nuts. Yes you need to stay semi-close to him but teams dared him to shoot ALL THE TIME. And had zero concerns about cheating off him to deter Jalen drives. The gravity that Randle has is his on-ball gravity, not his off-ball gravity. And as much as the national media fawns over Gobert cleaning up all KAT’s messes on defense, we all know that Randle was basically the worst defender on the team, even worse than Brunson.
I do think the January version of Randle was really good – I just don’t know whether that was going to be sustainable. I was excited to see it, and I am still sort of +/- on the trade, but especially if Randle was not going to sign an extension, probably was best to move him.
Vecenie also made the point that Randle is basically in a contract year now — and that he’ll be unbelievably motivated. While that is definitely true, I’ve always felt that Randle is best when he lets the game come to him as opposed to when he feels like he needs to dominate. For his sake I hope he does great out there. Definitely appreciate all he did for this team. We all have flaws and New Yorkers more so than most lol.
One more thing about the Vecenie podcast – they spent all their time worrying about KAT defending at the 5, but spent almost no time talking about KAT at the 5 offensively.
Yes we might have trouble guarding PNRs when they bring both Jalen and KAT into the action. But there is the other side of the court, where Jalen absolutely destroyed other teams WITH a completely cluttered lane.
KBA!
When you’re gonna live in Italy we (you, Max and I) have to meet in person for a mini KB-covenant 🙂
Abso-fucking-lutely! 😀
I think you could argue a Brunson/DDV/Mikal/OG/Mitch lineup would maybe be as good as a Brunson/Hart/Mikal/OG/KAT lineup.
Both feature OG out of position and both have below-average shooters (Mitch and Hart). One trades a lot of rim protection for a little more shooting, rebounding, and better passing. Obviously the 2nd lineup doesn’t have the continued injuries, which is a factor. lineup #1 can go right out there on day one.
I think the bet for Leon is that KAT will return to being a top-10 scorer, giving us two 1A guys in effect, plus a devastating #2 in Mikal. Although Donte was amazing last year, he hasn’t proven to be that all-world scorer type just yet.
All in all, I can see why they made the move because having that 2nd go-to guy with high efficiency is pretty important for the playoffs.
I also listened to the Vecenie pod and was flabbergasted by the Randle gravity analysis. If there are numbers to this effect, they are distinctly at odds with my eye test, which tells me teams leave Randle all alone from the top of the key.
I think an important part of the DDV/Mikal swap is Mikal’s shot creation, which is a DDV weakness, and was even during his great stretch. DDV definitely got pretty good at pull-up threes (92% of his 3s were assisted, 64th percentile per CTG), but couldn’t do much else unassisted.
The idea is that Mikal can give Brunson (and KAT) a legit breather and/or release valve when they’re pressured–he’s assisted less frequently on basically every kind of FG than DDV. He was obviously overburdened as Brooklyn’s leading FGA guy last season, but I think he’s clearly a better “make something out of nothing” guy than DDV while maintaining most of DDV’s ability to convert off assists.
Viva KB Italia! Andiamo, ragazzi!
This team is so much more talented than last season’s team it’s laughable to even debate it.
Re the trades: even if I have some “wait and see” feeling, it’s mostly bc the guys haven’t played together. I *was* waiting/excited to see Brunson with a whole season of Mikal (and OG, for that matter). Now I’m doubly excited to see Jalen play with KAT.
And, let’s be honest, the first time Kat swishes a three from downtown while KP, Embiid or whoever else goes flailing at him too late — this is gonna feel so sweet for us, and … unprecedented?
Meantime, on D, if OG can play a full season and Mitch a strong half, I say we have a good chance to win it all (but I’m def on The Optimist Express).
It’s all about the health.
About the KAT trade:
I don’t like it. I know it had to be made, but it just feels wrong. I think our ceiling is way higher than before, but character-wise we got worse and I thank the overall experience will suffer for it.
Even if we won it all, I’m not sure I will be happy rooting for this team.
But that’s just my heart talking.
Offensive talent.
I’d take last year’s team (again, the fully healthy January version) in all 4 defensive factors and give it a major edge in offensive rebounding. Offensive turnovers is about the same. That’s 5.5 out of 8. Not to mention the depth and flexibility.
I’m not even sure what “shot gravity” is, but I am sure that a .553 TS%, indifferent at best defense, putrid playoff work, and a very tough fit (*) isn’t something this fan is going to miss much. (Understanding the personal fan affinity some may have for him, which I don’t discount, but I’m talking strictly in basketball terms.)
(*) Which is why, once the shock had worn off, the chatter and Wolves fan sentiment/hope was that he was going to be moved sooner rather than later. The first thought of virtually any decent team when they acquire him is “Yeah, but how and where does he fit?” By all indications, that’s the predominant sentiment in the intelligent part of the Wolves’ fanbase.
The risk of Randle coming back and having chronic problems with that shoulder was just too high. Combine that with Mitch’s chronic unavailability and we were staring down the barrel at a completely barren frontcourt with Precious Achiuwa playing 2500 minutes.
We needed a center, and a good one, and we got one. And Towns is not a center only, he can also play stretch four if and when Mitch returns if you want to play big. And I keep harping on this, but it’s important: we desperately needed Towns’ screen setting ability. Without Hartenstein we were really lacking in bigs who could set effective screens.
“This team is so much more talented than last season’s team it’s laughable to even debate it.”
Correct. We’re all fans, sure but pooh-poohing the high cost of OG — a 3-and-D guy — and at the same time kvetching about the smaller cost of KAT doesn’t really compute in basketball terms. If everyone stays healthy, I’m quite confident this will become crystal clear this season.
Farfa are you serious? KAT is considered soft for his playing style but by all indications he’s a great guy and grew up a Knicks fan living in Jersey. Bridges is another player who seems perfect for this team and will be fun to root for.
These are players still in their primes who will most likely be here long term. Along with of course Brunson, Hart and OG who we all love. We were debating not too long ago how the current team compares to the 90’s teams and now after getting KAT this team clearly has the chance to be the best Knicks team since the 70’s title teams if not the best Knicks team ever. Key part to me is not just for this season but for the rest of this decade, the championship window is now pretty wide open for the foreseeable future which is amazing to think about.
KAT has superstar skills. If he can stay injury-free and move the intelligence/effort level up to 100% consistency, he’s a superstar.
Thibs has a chance here to really show what he’s got. It’s easy when it’s all your guys built to play “your way,” not so much so when your best guys are a little out of your comfort zone. (In terms of what happens if it doesn’t work out as it should, I certainly haven’t adjusted my priors — “Thanks for your service, Coach.”)
What the hell has gotten into Sam Darnold?
I like that view bruno…it works for me…
They’ve now officially modernized the roster and the offense and can now curb stomp teams based not on Moneyball or gimmicks or “playing hard,” but on pure talent.
That’s what you want.
Bridges is a dream get.
It’s KAT that really irks me. It’s a gut feeling, but I know I’ll have a very hard time rooting for him. I don’t like his demeanor, his attitude, his apparent sleepiness.
But again… that’s just me as a lunchpail fan. If I were Leon, I would have made this trade without skipping a beat.
Fair enough. Yeah KAT will definitely be the most polarizing player to root for just like Randle was. But he is a 4 time All-Star who for his career is averaging 22.9 ppg and 10.8 reb with a 62% TS% which is pretty insane.
Yeah, rooting for KAT will take a bit of time — going from “Boy, he seems like a nice guy and he’s talented as all get-out but I’m so glad he’s not on my team” to “Boy, I’m glad he’s on my team” will take a bit. I suspect it’ll happen, though.
It’s a radically different team now. Start of the season will definitely feel like rooting for the laundry. I’ll need to focus on Deuce…
I’m willing to give KAT the chance to win me over (as if he cares, haha).
Point: If KAT legit rooted for the Knicks when he was 19 years old, that means he was right there with many of us having his heart broken open again and again. For starters, to be my new brother, that works for me.
Let’s go! ;-$
I’m not sure what apparent sleepiness is, but his ability to shoot 42% from above the break vs last year’s 5’s plus Randle clogging the lane interminably is going to lead to so many OG and Bridges backdoor cuts to the basket it is going to be laughable.
You are gaining defense with OG over Randle and Bridges over DDV and losing D with KAT vs I Hart. I don’t see how this doesn’t translate to a better team.
Kind of a different squad than Mitch, Randle, RJ, Bullock and E. Payton Leon inherited
I think I’ve mentioned before that I thought the Wolves made a curious decision (which isn’t to say wrong, necessarily) to pretty much immediately orient the offense towards Edwards at KAT’s expense as soon as they drafted Edwards. Maybe the idea was that an offense built around a wing was more sustainable in the playoffs, I’m not sure. I just found it curious because to this day KAT remains the more efficient scorer, and it’s not like he can’t handle serious usage.
All this to say, I’ll be fascinated to see how Thibs divvies up usage offensively now that Brunson is playing with, by far, the best shot creator he’s had in NY. I’m pretty sure Brunson will still unambiguously be the #1 option and I think that’s correct, but KAT has shown he can carry more of a load than he was during the Ant years without any efficiency drop off, and I wonder if we reactivate that.
The whole thing hinges on Brunson. He gets his teammates to play better. Did so with Julius and anticipating KAT will love him. And if that’s the case, leave it to Thibs and the injury Gods to see how far we go.
Awful loss by the Jets
I’m not a Jets fan but speaking about tough to root for how’s the Aaron Rodgers experience gone so far?
On the one hand he’s clearly the best QB the Jets have had in a decade or more, but their offensive system is pretty stupid and he’s probably got a big role in that.
i know right…at least the g-men didn’t lose today 🙂
i’m interested to see how harbaugh does with the chargers…so-fi is a pretty cool looking stadium…
Sounds like Shams is saying we were pushing a Mitch/Randle package on Minny, but we eventually had to up the offer to Donte/Randle to get it done. That tells me the team was really prepared to move forward with KAT as the starting center for the long haul.
Ramona Shelburne:
Seems like the Jets just aren’t all that good. Aaron Rogers is 40 years old and gimping all over the field. The Mets are hanging on by their fingernails. Bring on the Knicks!
Towns has never really played with a good PG-D’Angelo is alright, and old ass Mike Conley is still solid but the best offensive players he’s played with were Ant, I guess, and Jimmy Butler.
An absent-minded Duane Washington Jr. did play only 4 minutes for Partizan today (with no shots, really hard to believe if you know him), now with the next game fixed for thursday him, his agent and Partizan should be ready for Brock’s magical trick to alleviate our apron disease…
Well I have to take the L on my prediction that there was no way that Leon would break up the Villanova clique until at least after this year. Still shocked and somewhat saddened by that.
As to the trade itself, it’s pretty well documented here that I have never been much of a KAT fan. However, that was in the context of getting him for the king’s ransom I thought he would command. I never imagined that he would be attainable for a package equivalent to Randle, DDV, and an unlikely to convey protected first, more likely two seconds, plus flotsam and jetsam. I will very dearly miss DDV, and have consistently defended Randle here through the ups and downs. But given the concerns about how extending him was a murky but almost necessary proposition, and how doing so would almost certainly lock us in to his status as our 1A, seems like the move was a no-brainer. Still very unsettling…I feel totally blindsided and disoriented.
I was at that Jets game. I’m soaked, pissed off, stuck in traffic on the bus with warm cheap beer, but at least I’m with a bunch of friends I’ve known since kindergarten!
DDV was an ideal 6th man, but Bridges is the better two way player. I loved I-Hart and took that loss hard too, but we are underrating Towns. When’s he’s 100% he’s a great offensive C and will make it WAY easier for everyone else to penetrate and cut. This offense is going to be legitimately awesome if everyone is used properly!
I don’t want to go overboard, but the idea that he’s a weak defender is monumental bullshit. He’s big, strong, will get physical in the post, and moves well enough on the perimeter! He’s not going to block as many shots as some guys, but he’s not going to be a liability. He may even be good.
Start the season!
Strat is ready!
I expect Jalen Brunson and Tom Thibodeau to unlock the very best of Karl-Anthony Towns. More confidence in the former than the latter, but significant optimism here. Jalen Brunson is a more intelligent and willing and basketball-savvy lead teammate than Anthony Edwards or D’Angelo Russell by orders of magnitude.
I’m sure we’ll end up liking KAT just fine when he’s hitting threes as we’re pulling away against some playoff team that can’t match up with us.
Now that we have not just a bona fide stretch 5, but one of the better ones, well, ever, Precious at the 4 becomes a lot more viable in non-emergency situations. It opens up some interesting staggering possibilities. Deuce/The Wings/Precious/KAT should be a pretty solid two-way lineup when Brunson needs a breather.
Having a guy like KAT really just opens up so much lineup versatility we didn’t have before. I’m glad that dastardly Thibs finally stopped vetoing all the trades for stretch 5s we had lined up 😉
‘Breece Hall mustered a career-low four rushing yards on 10 attempts. Rodgers was sacked five times and hit 14 times. New York was penalized 13 times for a total of 90 yards.’
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer quarterback…
With the Celtics nursing KP for the start of the season we actually could land the top seed in the East.
As to the merits of the trade, not long ago, I posted here that I felt that DDV should be the guy to be traded if we wanted to fix the issue at C, but again I was almost certain that Leon wouldn’t do it. I truly never even considered whether KAT would be worth trading for, since it seemed like a total non-starter without having unprotected firsts to add. Not to mention the issues between KAT and Thibs a few years ago.
But now, what seemed unfathomable has actually happened. I don’t want to run away from my past concerns about KAT. At the same time, what Boston did last offseason by acquiring Jrue and KP on the cheap has changed the calculus, and so has the loss or iHart and the all-in trade of all of our firsts for Bridges. Deep down. I felt that out ceiling was not at a championship level before the trade because ultimately we would face a team that could exploit our thin C rotation. I did not believe that Randle was an ideal small-ball C option. I also felt that having three guys in the rotation who are at best spotty 3-pt shooters in the top 8 of our rotation (Randle, Mitch (!), Precious, and Hart) along with no true stretch-5 option for a true 5-out offense was a huge flaw. Seem like we have solved those problems with this move. But I still think we need a bigger player than Deuce as a shooting guard option in the 5-out lineup, and I don’t think Shamet is that guy.
As much as it pains me to say it, I think the C’s are still better than us on paper. But the gap is narrower than it was before the trade.
Fuck the Celtics!
“I expect Jalen Brunson and Tom Thibodeau to unlock the very best of Karl-Anthony Towns. More confidence in the former than the latter, but significant optimism here. Jalen Brunson is a more intelligent and willing and basketball-savvy lead teammate than Anthony Edwards or D’Angelo Russell by orders of magnitude.”
Mike Conley is about as intelligent and basketball-savvy as any PG in the NBA, but yeah, not just Jalen Brunson as captain but a critical mass of high-IQ players surrounding him should help bring out the best in him.
https://x.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1840515941198602376
Bobby Marks says he’s hearing right now that Mikal is likely going to wait until next year to sign an extension, since he could do 4 years then versus only 2 years in October, but he also acknowledges that things could change once the extension window opens up.
Randle tribute…
I must have missed what Rodgers did that was so awful other than be one of the best players of his generation and generally kept his nose clean (didn’t triple team any women while they were impaired)….
Suddenly the Pacome Dadiet devlopmental arc becomes much more interesting. There is a clear need for a player like him when/if he develops.
It’s a shame Alec Burks didn’t stick around. I presume he left bc he didn’t think there’d be any playing time. Whoops.
I still don’t really see the logic behind drafting Dadiet, who is very young and seems at least two years away from being able to play in the NBA. I’m not getting too attached to him. Seems like it’s only a matter of time before he’s included in a trade for a win-now piece.
We seem to obsess way too much on back of rotation and bench players when you consider how good the top 7 players are (if you count Mitch) not even counting decent veteran bench players like Precious, Payne and Shamet.
With Leon’s penchant for kicking the draft choice can down the road, Taking this clearly long term developmental piece makes me think they really like his upside and are willing to wait. They must want him being coached up in this system for a reason…
If Dadiet can follow the Deuce McBride arc (nothing in year 1, spotty in year 2, Eureka! in year 3) we’ll have a really nice player when this team is hitting its stride.
In the meantime, it’s so much easier to find a backup wing than a legit center these days. We really just need a Sam Hauser or Sam Merrill type to hold us over. Alec Burks would have been perfect. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s back next year.
Kolek’s development is much more critical. We need someone to be the Payton Pritchard of this team, and Cam Payne probably ain’t it.
It’s a good sign that the team already considers Kolek ahead of Payne on the depth chart. Payne is not a great player but he’s not an unplayable bum either. He can score and pass a little and is a reasonable backup PG. If Kolek as a rookie is already the better player, that’s good news. It would be huge for us if we could get 1000 decent minutes from Kolek.
Pretty sure they got stuck with the pick and decided he was the best player to stick in Westchester.
It’s amazing we actually have four rookies to root for. Given how many draft choices we’ve traded recently, that’s not going to happen again for a long time.
FWIW I hope we don’t trade Mitch because I love the idea of him as the 6th man. Everyone thinks “my 6th man should be instant offense” but instant rim protection and dominant offensive rebounding is probably more likely to lead to a positive net rating than someone who comes in and scores. If, when Jalen Brunson and KAT go to the bench, we can bring in a guy who adds possessions and locks down the lane, we may not score a lot of points but we’re very likely to maintain or extend the leads our first unit built. Not to mention playing him 18-20 minutes is much better for a guy with his injury history.
Early on, I hope Thibs tries the idea of putting Precious in the starting lineup as the PF. It would be as if he took over Randle’s rebounding and defending role and KAT took over his scoring role. Then our bench would initially be Hart (who can sub in for any of KAT, OG, Precious, or Mikal) Deuce, Sims, and Kolek/Payne. I do expect them to sign a vet, either after a 9th-10th man audition (someone like Shamet or Mook) or off the waiver wire.
When Mitch comes back, he can replace Sims in the rotation. I think Thibs will bring him off the bench at first, and then see how it goes from there.
But without question, the bench is a concern right now. Dadiet, Huk and McCullar, and to a lesser degree, Kolek, are impossible to count on for anything but spot minutes. Shamet kinda sucks and Mook is probably washed.
Are you happy now, E? 😉
I’ll tell you all that the trolls I work with were more obsessed with this trade than I was to start. They’re like you, E: they all hate Randle.
Now fwiw, Coach Mo weighed in yesterday before we hosted football (pls don’t Google ELAC vs Golden West final score lol). As someone who likes to run a motion offense, he said that he never liked Julius bc he processes the game too slowly, thus why he’s had issues moving the ball.
I will always think what could have been with the January Knicks.
https://x.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1840563464894317047 someone wants a training camp invite
This team is significantly better than last year’s, and it isn’t that close. It isn’t quite as deep, but championships are won on your top 7, not top 9. Once Mitch is healthy:
Mitch is Mitch
Towns is better than Randle
OG is laughably better than RJ
Mikal is significantly better then DDV
JB is JB
It’s not like Randle and DDV stunk. They were/are good players. But the upgrades we made are real, and the flexibility Towns (as an outside shooter) and Mikal (as a creator) gives us is also real. We match up against the Celtics where we didn’t quite before. I would have loved going to war with that team, like most others here, but our chance at a championship now is much higher.
Once Mitch is back I think you can say we’re 8 deep. We need injury luck, but who doesn’t? Our top 5/6 are as good as there is in the league.
Facts!!! – However, emotionally, last year’s team of under dawgs was a lot more fun to root for.
I wish we had signed IHart to a much longer deal. That’s my feeling about KAT. January was the happiest I have ever been as a Knicks fan. I do want that back.
But it was never happening so we move on….
We all know that both Rosas and Leon read this blog everyday.
There were so many different versions of last year’s team, so maybe there’s some confusion.
We’re talking about the January Knicks, fully healthy. That’s a team we never even saw.
1 Brunson, McBride
2 Donte, Grimes
3 OG, Hart
4 Randle, Precious
5 Hartenstein, Robinson
That team would have won 60 plus games. It has no weakness. It can score. It’s the best rebounding team in the world. It has dominant rim protection. And the Donte of last year was basically Klay Thompson.
No, this team is not better than that. It’s not even close.
Doesn’t Dwight know this team already has a farter?
(Assuming the farter wasn’t traded to the Nets, T-Wolves, or Hornets.)
They did this because they knew they weren’t going to have many draftees after this year. And it’s not a bad group! All 4 could eventually become nba rotation players. This will be helpful when some of our current guys age out in four years or so…
The current team is better than that team. Mikal is better then DDV. KAT is better then Randle. The rest are essentially the same minus iHart. He was great! But does he make up the entire difference between KAT/Randle and Mikal/DDV? I don’t think so.
I wonder if we were originally going to send Mitch to Charlotte for Nick Richards in this deal — because the money works that way — but maybe Charlotte balked in the end due to Mitch’s extended injury status?
Just watched that Randle tribute. I think I’m going to miss him more than most here – just had a lot of heart, a lot of fire. Immature often, argued with the refs too much, but he wanted to win and I could respect that desire. Without him, Quick, and iHart I don’t love this team nearly as much.
But I’ll get over it.
Yeah, Julius, DDV, Hart, and even Deuce slot in well next to JB as misfit toys I would be thrilled to see beat the rest of the league. You know, *that* Knicks narrative.
The new team — Mikal, KAT — needs to grow on me a bit.
Like the old Seinfeld joke. We’re just rooting for laundry.