[Sports Illustrated] – Wed, 31 Jul 2024 18:37:17 GMT
New York Knicks Linked to Pelicans Trade
[Posting and Toasting] – Wed, 31 Jul 2024 10:00:00 GMT
Knickslammed: John Wallace SLAM No. 15 (Feb. 1997)
[Sports Illustrated] – Wed, 31 Jul 2024 17:00:02 GMT
- Paul George Can’t Wait for Knicks
- Behind the Scenes of the Philadelphia 76ers Go-for-Broke Summer
- Tyrese Maxey talks waiting for his contract, Joel Embiids growth, Sixers fans and more on Paul Georges podcast
- Paul George’s challenge to Boston Celtics and NY Knicks deemed ‘unwise’
- Tyrese Maxey shares his initial reaction to Paul George joining 76ers
[The Hudson Reporter] – Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:39:01 GMT
- Knicks Eye Trade for 3-Time NBA Champ Kevin Looney
- Knicks Linked to Warriors Trade
- Knicks trade for championship center in recent mock trade
- Proposed Trade Has Knicks Landing Warriors $22 Million 3-Time NBA Champ
- Curious trade proposal sees Warriors flip 3x champion for 24-year-old big man
[Empire Sports Media] – Wed, 31 Jul 2024 22:18:53 GMT
- The Knicks would need a ‘major shift’ to consider extending veteran power forward
- What should the Knicks and Julius Randle expect in contract extension negotiations?
- Eastern Notes: Randle, Pistons, Raptors Camp, Ware
- How Will Julius Randle Approach Knicks Contract Negotiation?
- Do Knicks Have A Deadline To Trade Julius Randle? New York Tracker
[Sportskeeda] – Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:40:00 GMT
Jalen Brunson blocks comments on wedding anniversary post after Knicks fans’ comical proposals
[Basketball Network] – Wed, 31 Jul 2024 21:23:17 GMT
I was just an All-Star in New York the year before – Carmelo Anthony recalls being told to play off the bench for the first time
109 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.08.01)”
Atkinson.
Typically excellent Katz breakdown on all the complicated factors regarding a potential Randle contract extension:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5672708/2024/08/01/knicks-julius-randle-contract-negotiations/
Meanwhile, Bondy is reporting that Sims has basically spent every offseason prior to this one rehabbing injuries or surgeries, and that this is the first summer since he turned pro where he’s really been able to work on his game:
https://nypost.com/2024/08/01/sports/jericho-sims-finally-healthy-for-knicks-after-surgeries/
As with all the Mitch offseason workout videos, I’ll believe any expansion in Sims’ game when he starts doing it against real competition. But just FYI.
US Olympic shooting team is dead last. 0 medals. Thats shooting with guns.
Not every one of our teams can be expected to win a medal. That would be a little bit unrealistic.
Alan, of course these offseason workout videos should be taken with a grain of salt. But I do think he can have quite a bit of utility for this team if he can round off some of the rough edges of his game.
Sadly, my biggest worry about Sims is that he does not process and react fast enough to ever be as good as his physical profile suggests he can be. He is an awesome physical specimen with a 45″ vertical. When he doesn’t have to process, such as in 1-on-1 in the post with Embiid, he has the ability to be as good as anyone. But he seems to have a combination of slowish processing and long load-up time that makes him late on rotations. I don’t know if any amount of offseason work can effectively address that. Amar’e was a tireless worker and he never got one iota better at it.
Doogie, did you not get the irony in CB’s statement?
Sims should be trying to be Ben Wallace.
Z-man: Admittedly I did not, and still don’t. Tired and preoccupied this morning.
CB that’s the rub, isn’t it? Ben had elite reaction speed. Sims does not. I don’t think you can teach that stuff. But their physical profiles are very similar.
“Z-man: Admittedly I did not, and still don’t. Tired and preoccupied this morning.”
USA is a second amendment kinda country, where there are millions of assault weapons in circulation. One would think that they could produce some world-class olympic shooters. Apparently there is no relationship between guns per capita and shooting accuracy.
Got it; thanks.
Z-man, I am in the opposite camp and think that a lack of “elite reaction speed” can be mitigated by off-season work. Not that you can develop it as such, but rather cheat your way into it by working on routines.
This has been a big emphasis of mine when it comes to young player development.
Players benefit from experience in games, but they do most of their skill development in practice. Most of that development occurs during the summer. If a young player is constantly hurt and rehabbing in the summer, there’s not much chance they are going to get better. That was a problem for several young players that passed through the organization. I was less aware of it for Sims for some reason, but I would not be shocked if he comes back better this year. How much better is anyone’s guess but maybe he’ll be a bright spot and handle the backup role netter than we expect until we get to the trade deadline. He has some positive attributes already.
“Z-man, I am in the opposite camp and think that a lack of “elite reaction speed” can be mitigated by off-season work. Not that you can develop it as such, but rather cheat your way into it by working on routines.”
I am pretty confident that this is not the case. Think Josh Hart. You can’t teach the stuff that he does that makes him an elite rebounder for his size. If you could, everyone would do it!
If you watch Ben Wallace highlights carefully, you can see how his “read and react” speed was just a gift. He just had it.
Now Sims can obviously improve by doing what you suggest above and some modest improvements can add up to make him a better defender. He has good feet and moves well laterally for a guy his size, so there are definitely things to build on. Lord knows we could really use an improved Sims vs. Embiid, Bam, KP, and other bigger C’s in the case that Mitch either gets into foul trouble or injured.
I’m not sure about the lack of reaction time. The Post article makes it clear that he’s very good at a lot of areas of defense and, to me, those areas (like defending stretch bigs) require quick reactions. And when have watched him, he doesn’t seem slow reacting to me.
No one who is second amendment friendly has any interest in winning a gold medal at the Olympics.
The guy who I think has the most potential to make significant improvement this offseason is Hukporti. I think he was not physically, mentally, or technically prepared for even the NBA summer league level of speed, strength and athleticism. If he busts his ass for three months with a big-man coach, maybe he can get good enough to dominate in G-League and get some call-up minutes with the big team. If Mitch (or Precious or Sims for that matter) goes down for any length of time, he might have to be our 3rd stringer. Hopefully he’s crazy hungry to get better because the physical potential and motor seems to be there.
“No one who is second amendment friendly has any interest in winning a gold medal at the Olympics.”
Not unless they come up with an event that involves taking kill shots at cutouts of Hillary and Barack…
Really? You think the all the Americans participating in the shooting events are anti-2nd Amendment? Weird hobby for them if that were the case.
Apparently, we sent people to the Olympics more likely to take shots at Trump. They aren’t very good shots.
One thing that stands out negatively about Hukporti is that he has atrocious footwork on offense. If you watch his highlights closely, both in summer league and NBL, he travels way more than it has gotten called. That alone will make him virtually unplayable until he cleans that up.
We are never going to be a 5-out team, so if one of Sims/Precious can learn to shoot this year, things could work out. We will probably be screwed if we lose Mitch to injury, but most teams are screwed once they lose an important starter, so c’est la vie.
“…but most teams are screwed once they lose an important starter, so c’est la vie.”
Well the Celts lost KP and didn’t bat an eye. Helps to have an aging all-star as your backup rather than a vet’s minimum level player. But in general, I agree with you.
“We are never going to be a 5-out team…”
Hopefully Thibs will tinker with a 5-out small-ball lineup. The problem is that Randle would likely be one of the five, but it’s not like Jaylen Brown is a deadeye shooter from 3. It also makes me wonder if bringing on one of the remaining 3pt shooters on the UFA list for spot #15 makes sense as a 5-out lineup specialist. Bertans, Hayward, Bullock, Gallo, McBuckets, Crowder, Walker, etc.
The Katz article has me convinced that, at a minimum, Randle should go ahead and pick up his 2025-2026 option. He and the Knicks can discuss a potential extension from there, but I actually think he should pick it up regardless.
I just don’t know who’s going to pay him $32.4M for that season, not to mention the seasons following. Houston seems like the strongest possibility and even that feels like a stretch unless they make significant moves between now and then. For the reasons we’ve discussed ad nauseam, he’s a good-but-niche player who I don’t think will get paid like a typical multi-time all-NBA player still presumably in his prime.
Seems to me picking up the option gives both him and the Knicks a little added security no matter what happens with the extension talks.
“Hopefully Thibs will tinker with a 5-out small-ball lineup. The problem is that Randle would likely be one of the five, but it’s not like Jaylen Brown is a deadeye shooter from 3. It also makes me wonder if bringing on one of the remaining 3pt shooters on the UFA list for spot #15 makes sense as a 5-out lineup specialist. Bertans, Hayward, Bullock, Gallo, McBuckets, Crowder, Walker, etc.”
Who is “Walker”? Lonnie IV?
Yeah
No to Hayward since he officially retired earlier today.
No to Hayward, regardless. It was time for him to retire.
Lol bad timing on Hayward!
Honestly, Bullock, Gallo, Crowder, McBuckets, and Bertans are all pretty much as washed as Hayward, but that’s kinda who you want as a #15 roster filler guy.
Not strongly, but I would probably pick Crowder from that list of washed-ups without doing any research on any of them.
Randle is a 24/9/5 player , 3 time all star and 2nd and 3rd team all NBA player in the last 4 seasons. That’s a “niche” player? You don’t know who will pay him 32.4M next year? Have you taken a look at some of the NBA players making more than that?
I get it that the guy isn’t the perfect player…. buy we’ll see what his market value is soon enough.
Hey Doogie, why did the snail paint the S on his car?
“I just don’t know who’s going to pay him $32.4M for that season, not to mention the seasons following. Houston seems like the strongest possibility and even that feels like a stretch unless they make significant moves between now and then. For the reasons we’ve discussed ad nauseam, he’s a good-but-niche player who I don’t think will get paid like a typical multi-time all-NBA player still presumably in his prime.”
Considering some of the extreme opinions about Randle posted here at this time two years ago, he probably shouldn’t look to KB for career advice.
Katz does a good job laying down the groundwork for the Knicks’ FO. Not that he’s wrong, but a lot of it is stuff Julius won’t want to hear. The reality is, under the new CBA, max deals are going to be hard to come by except for irreplaceable players – players that every team could always use. Julius’ best value is to a bad team that needs a floor raiser. That doesn’t mean he’s a bad player, but the few teams that can offer a max deal, and do, are likely going to be bad teams.
Randle is an odd fit offensively in the modern NBA, is a bad defender, has played atrociously in the two playoffs he’s been in, and is about to turn 30. Which teams do we think would be interested in trading for him?
I don’t know, but iHart just got $29 million. I think someone would pay Julius $32.4, assuming healthy.
That said, whether someone *should* do that is a different discussion.
Sorry, Clarence, I know that joke.
Julius Randle can single handedly make a bottom dwelling team respectable, just like he did here.
I suspect teams with clean cap sheets who are tired of tanking (like Detroit, Charlotte, Washington) would be very happy to max him.
Maybe even we play the games this year and discover that we have a little boy and fat man on the team and Randle doesn’t have to go anywhere.
The reason we legalized assault rifles is we can’t hit the broadside of a barn without emptying an entire magazine. America is the Earth equivalent of Star Wars stormtroopers.
I’m at a clam shack right now and their motto is always whole bellies and always beef-fat fried.
Yuck.
Who might be the fat man on the team? Based on how you described it, maybe he’s eating at that clam shack.
I’m in Celtic country so I doubt it. But if I were in charge of assigning – Brunson would be fat man and Jules Little boy.
Weird that Sims’ injuries are so underreported, I don’t recall hearing about them before. Feels like a “best shape of my life” play.
He looks slow at times because he loads up for his jumps. He can get up but he’s not particularly tall and he isn’t as fast off the floor as Mitch. Makes him look slow to react even though he’s quick on his feet.
He still gets lost defending PnRs. Hes not as atrocious as his rookie season, but he’s really bad. This also seems like something you could at least partially work on while injured, just walk through the play slowly or watch video.
He’ll be 26 this year. Even if he starts improving now, isn’t it a bit too late?
So the worst run teams in the league? The ones who have been terrible for a decade+? And would Charlotte even want him considering they already have Brandon Miller and Miles Bridges?
I actually liked Okeke a good amount in the 2019 draft but he, well, hasn’t done shit in the NBA. I wonder if this is a 2-way because it seems like a weird way to spend our last roster spot.
Oh EB, it’s never too late to improve! At least that’s what Lady Raven keeps telling me.
But I get your point. I do think there’s a time line where Sims becomes a perfectly cromulent back-up center. Just not sure it’s the one we’re on.
Okeke!
Great 2nd draft candidate. Nice, Leon.
Noble, I’m guessing it’s an Exhibit 10 or training camp invite, two-way deal at the most. But, again, I have to assume McCullar is getting one of the two-way slots (unless his injury is just super dire), and I’d be surprised if Jacob Toppin didn’t get the other.
It worked for us, didn’t it?
Look at what Detroit just paid Tobias. I am pretty sure they would offer Julius more than 1/32.
You make a good point about fit in Charlotte, though. Probably shouldn’t have listed them.
I like Randle and am bullish on his chances to be a major contributor to a contending Knicks team. That’s why I think his highest earning potential comes from the Knicks, actually. If you disagree with what I said, instead of doing this vague snarky shit, identify a team that plausibly:
1) will have $30M in cap space in the summer of 2025
2) will want to spend that cap space on Randle
He’s not an easy, plug-and-play fit like Paul George, Bridges, OG, etc. because he’s a non-center who isn’t a reliable shooter and isn’t a particularly versatile defender. I don’t say this stuff to rag on him and it’s annoying that acknowledging these obvious things is viewed that way. He’s better than most NBA players!
It’s just obviously true that a high-usage, non-stretch 4 who comes with defensive challenges is not the easiest guy to fit into most rosters. If I’m wrong, identify the teams!
If I were Randle’s agent, I would tell the Knicks that he would only opt in if offered an extension, and if they didn’t extend him he would opt out and walk. I might settle for roughly the same numbers as Brunson, with a starting salary of $38M in 2026-27 and increasing the max amount in the ensuing 3 years with a player option in year 4. That’s 21-22% of the cap. If the Knicks think that’s too much, I’d tell them we are going to test the market.
If I were Leon, I’d offer him that money, but not the full max of 4/$181M. I’d do it sooner rather than later. If he refused the offer, I’d look at the trade market, probably starting with investigating teams like home town Dallas, or SAS, Portland, and Houston.
In other words, if the over/under on what Randle is going to get paid in 2026-27 is $35M, I’d take the over without blinking. Hes going to get paid.
I don’t think it’s the least bit snarky to point out that lots of folks here grossly (in every sense of the word) underestimated Randle’s market value just two years ago, and that that should be factored into the weighing of their current opinions on his future market value.
Should support for the Bargnani trade be be factored into weighing of peoples’ current opinions on stuff?
Not to be our backup for now.
Okeke is a 6-foot-6 PF who can’t shoot a lick. Why not get a C for that spot? Not impressed.
“identify a team that plausibly:
1) will have $30M in cap space in the summer of 2025
2) will want to spend that cap space on Randle
He’s not an easy, plug-and-play fit like Paul George, Bridges, OG, etc. because he’s a non-center who isn’t a reliable shooter and isn’t a particularly versatile defender.”
There are a number of teams that can create that cap space if they want to. He might be an excellent fit on a team like the Spurs in two years, when Wemby is in the MVP hunt.
I also dispute the “he’s not a plug-and-play, but he’s better than most NBA players” narrative as a thinly-veiled backhanded compliment. We saw it right here over the last 4 years. He has been an all-star level player on three very different teams, and was on his way to being all-NBA once again this year before getting hurt. The only role he hasn’t thrived in is the unquestioned alpha role that he had in 2021-22
Meanwhile, Jarrett fucking Allen just got 3 years @ $30M AAV at the league’s most fungible position.
There’s also something called a sign-and-trade, which I’m sure some teams would be happy to consider for a player like Randle at 20% of the cap.
But I’ll tell you what, when he turns down his player option because you refused to offer him anything in the ball park of a $40M AAV extension, tell me how you plan to replace his production.
As I have said before, TNFH, I was dead wrong in defending the Bargnani trade back in 2013, you know, 11 years ago, and have never weighed in defensively about it since or bristled when someone brought it up. It was a dreadfully stupid take, and I knew that it was like 3 games into the season.
I have also learned from it to make sure I research things more thoroughly before forming an opinion such as that one.
But how about coming up with something I have strenuously argued for or against in the last 5, or even 10 years? I kinda like my track record against yours. Specifically, your takes on Leon’s approach generally and on Randle specifically couldn’t have been more wrong in retrospect. So pardon me if I find it odd that you are once again selling him short.
I think the league knows what Randle is. I’m less sure sportwriters do. They keep making him all NBA.
I think we may still need his scoring because we can’t count on Brunson to play at his playoff level every night.
IMO, that’s what the first half of the season is going to be about.
They are going to look at Bunson, Bridges and OG and see if we can get enough efficient scoring help from either Bridges and/or OG to not need Randle.
If we can, then we are potentially looking at something like OG, Bridges, DDV/J-Hart, Brunson starting and trading Randle for a C either directly or as part of a 3 team deal.
If the offense struggles without Randle and Brunson has to do too much, then Randle stays and it gets tougher to figure out how to upgrade C and keep the Villanova players together.
The only other alternative is bringing in a C that can score for Randle plus whatever. That’s why we keep hearing about Towns.
I was really suprised that Leon dropped the bag on OG like he did. I get that the market andcondition forced him but its unlike him. With Mikal and Hart in the mix, could OG be the matching salary going out if there is a top ~15 level player available in the next 18 months?
Yeah, I can’t imagine they’re signing him to the roster or even a 2-way unless it’s to immediately cut him and re-sign him to the training camp squad, the Leon special.
He shoots a lot from the midrange and hits his FTs at a decent rate, but needs to start sinking shots from behind the arc. Supposedly has a great feel for the game on both offense and defense.
I don’t want to go all Michael Corleone on you but, “If history has taught us anything…”
If history has taught us anything, you can’t predict big trades in the NBA. Did you ever think the TWolves would give up the kitchen sink for Rudy Gobert with Kat on that roster? Did you think the Knicks would make a deal for Bridges with the Nyets?
His contract isn’t massive or way out of whack with the marketplace, so I don’t see any impediment to trading him/Sign and trade/ someone opening cap space.
I don’t think trading OG is something that anyone in the organization has thought about at all. I think the 3 cast in stone are Brunson, Bridges and OG. I think J-Hart and DDV are next most solid pieces because of their relationship with Brunson. Unless one is unhappy they are staying. After that, almost anything goes if the right deal is on the table. But I don’t think they are anxious to trade Randle. I think the organization loves him and he loves playing in NY. It may just come down to that depending on what the season looks like.
watching women’s olympic gymnastics…this stuff is crazy stressful…so little room for any errors…
Strat, maybe you’re right but both KD and Dame had return packages consisting of a couple of picks + high value players that the teams could flip for more assets and not expiring deals + a ton of draft picks type hauls. Just saying OG is that “special” guy and has the salary to match now.
Would a Randle-for-Jarrett Allen swap (after Dec 15 I guess) be crazy?
From our perspective, it re-balances the roster and makes center a position of strength again (though more like it was during the Mitch/Noel year than the all-too-brief IHart era). I think we could even get meaningful draft compensation, since Randle’s the better player.
For Cle, clearing out Allen lets Mobley move over as the starting 5, where he seemed to thrive last year when Allen was out. Could a Randle-Mobley front court work?
Just some idle thoughts while we discuss Randle’s future. Personally, I’m not looking to offload him.
Simone Biles no longer a quitter I guess
Well, that’s just a personal thing you’re going to have to get over because it was hardly a backhanded compliment. It is just very obviously true that he cannot seamlessly slide into any lineup the way e.g. Paul George can. If you are choosing to interpret that as some kind of slight, I don’t know what to tell you.
I will repeat that I like Julius Randle and think he can succeed here. I hope we find a way to keep him long-term (assuming we can’t find a trade that makes us better).
None of this changes the fact that it’s hard to conceive of a team with the cap space to make him a large offer (or the willingness to clear it) and the desire to tie up the money that way. I mean, if it was easy you would’ve answered the question instead of doing whatever it is you did instead.
I don’t believe I said I would refuse to offer anything, actually. I said I think it makes the most sense for him to pick up his player option and continue negotiating. If I were his agent and looking out for nothing other than his best interests, that’s what I would advise him to do because, again, it’s not easy to identify a free agency suitor.
Centers are no longer the market inefficiency. They went fast and got paid this offseason. I think the days of 80% of the production for 20% of the cost are over.
If we want to adequately replace IHart we will probably need to give up assets. That’s why a Randle for Allen move is probably a fair trade. It’s debatable whether it’s a good move but I don’t think Randle necessarily has any more trade value than Allen.
Allen isn’t even that good. He got pounded into submission on the glass by the Knicks in the playoffs.
Allen isn’t a guy I’d want, either. Mitch is the uber version of him.
We need a two-way center.
Crazy idea, but next summer we should just try to trade for Isaiah Hartenstein.
And Randle put up 14/6/3 shooting 23% from 3 and 33% overall.
I would call Allen a two-way center. He averaged over 18 pts and 3 asts per/36 last year. He is as good of an offensive player as IHart.
You don’t have to be a stretch 5 to be a two-way center.
Allen can’t shine iHarts shoes offensively or defensively. He was manhadled like a cild by Mitch and iHart to the point where even Randle wanted some of the hustle smoke.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. Hartenstein was certainly no stretch 5. But Allen is no Hartenstein.
Maybe because the “seamlessly slide into any lineup” thing is largely irrelevant. By that definition, guys like Brunson, heck, Embiid, Jokic, Bam, etc. are less valuable because they don’t fit “seamlessly” into any lineup. I can’t think of many teams that wouldn’t benefit greatly from having Julius Randle on their team.
First he was the most detrimental player in the NBA on an albatross contract and the team would be better with Obi as its starting PF. Then he was “physically diminished.” Now he’s “not a plug-and-play” player so no team would want to pay him $30M AAV. The disrespect never ends.
Personally, I hope that no one in the FO thinks that this is the case. However, if Leon tries to low-ball Randle by not offering him a near-max extension (meaning somewhere in the 4/160M range), we’ll probably find out. Better to trade him than lose him for nothing when someone figures out a way to pay him 20% of their cap for three years.
18 pts 3 assists per 36 vs 11 pts 3.6 assists per 36, idk, I doubt there’s a huge gulf betweet iHart & Allen offensively. Allen’s a good player
“18 pts 3 assists per 36 vs 11 pts 3.6 assists per 36, idk, I doubt there’s a huge gulf betweet iHart & Allen offensively. Allen’s a good player”
Which one is which?
Yes… on a pair of ankles that needed to be surgically repaired and were so bad he wasn’t ready by mid the start of the following season…. you kinda neglected to mention that reality.
Would you prefer using 18/11/4, 33% 3FG, 29% FG?
I think we are in different mode of thinking now.
IMO we should not be trying to maximize assets or win trades.
We are close to having a team that is solid on both sides, that can rebound, make plays, where the bench is solid at every position, the player’s skills compliment each other and the finances give us some flexibility to tweak if we have to.
Right now imo we have an almost perfect team. It has been a masterclass in team building.
We’ll see how the backup PG situation looks after a few months when we see Kolek in an NBA uniform. I think that’s going to work. But other than that the only major question mark is at C because we lost I-Hart. We are less sure about Mitch because of the injury history and spacing. Maybe we just need a solid backup and but maybe we need an upgrade for Mitch and he becomes the backup. If it’s the latter, that brings Randle into the conversation because he’s the only good player we have that can potentially be moved without rocking the perfection boat. I’m not anxious to do that until we see Brunson, Mikal and OG for awhile.
Other than that, I don’t think we should even think about messing with perfection. This is the team we are going to war with for a few years give or take one more significant trade.
Jokic and Embiid don’t fit into lineups, lineups fit around them. And Bam fits seamlessly onto any team that needs a C.
Really? The 7 other EC teams that were in the playoffs last year were: Boston (no), Milwaukee (no), Cleveland (maybe with the right trade), Orlando (no), Indy (maybe but he slows down their fast paced offense), Philly (no), and Miami (yes).
What about the 8 WC playoff teams? OKC (no), Denver (no), Minnesota (no), LAC (no), Dallas (maybe), Phoenix (no unless they’re dumping Beal), NOP (no), LAL (no).
I pretty much agree with everything that Strat said, and I also find it very sweet that the players’ skills compliment each other.
Is Richaun Holmes available? He’s more like a center than these guys we seem to keep picking up (KBD, Okeke, and the like). I’d still like to give Skap a contract and see what he can do. I feel like some team is going to, so it might as well be us.
“Really? The 7 other EC teams that were in the playoffs last year were: Boston (no), Milwaukee (no), Cleveland (maybe with the right trade), Orlando (no), Indy (maybe but he slows down their fast paced offense), Philly (no), and Miami (yes).
What about the 8 WC playoff teams? OKC (no), Denver (no), Minnesota (no), LAC (no), Dallas (maybe), Phoenix (no unless they’re dumping Beal), NOP (no), LAL (no).”
——
ThisChicanery, interesting exercise. I think I mostly agree, but just curious: how would you describe the profile of a team that would benefit from Randle?
Randle is a streaky player, and has often started off the season in a weird funk that makes him look horrible. If he’s not in his groove he generally looks pretty bad.
He usually DOES get into his groove though, and when he is playing well he’s a very good player. In a good Julius Randle season you can count on him for high volume/league average efficiency scoring, shot creation, tons of rebounding, and a good amount of playmaking.
There’s a tendency to write him off when he is out of sorts, because he looks genuinely very bad when he’s not in his comfort zone. He forces shots, complains to refs, fails to get back on defense, and generally looks like an eyesore out there. The hope is that one of these years we get “good Julius” during the playoffs. He has underwhelmed in two of his playoff stints here, first because of role (he’s not a 1A) and then because of injury, and of course he missed last year’s playoffs entirely. But I think our best shot is to hope he’s playing well heading into the playoffs. Good Julius is good indeed.
Strat, I sort of agree. For example, I’m not sure what OG might have gotten if Leon took a harder line, but there was no way to replace him or the assets Leon gave up to get him, so you had to take whatever L was involved in signing him to an overpay.
Same with Mikal, I’m not sure what the Nets could have gotten for him, or what we could have gotten for the same picks package, but the fit was so good that you could justify what looks on the surfact to be an overpay.
The same is true with Randle. Whether he can get more by shopping around next offseason or not is less important than how you can replace him. I get that he comes with some risk of being an overpay, but the bottom line is that replacing his production as a taxpayer with very limited trade capital other than guys you want to keep will be virtually impossible. I don’t see any reason to believe that he won’t be at least reasonably productive for the next 4 years, certainly enough to not worry about him becoming an albatross. So long as we stay below the 2nd apron, which seems doable, and that he doesn’t have a no-trade clause or prohibitive trade kicker, I think the sooner you lock him up, the better. And if Leon doesn’t feel that way, he should be on the phone right now trying to trade him.
I’ll give you Boston and now that they’ve acquired iHart, OKC. Minny has a big team, but he probably could be 6MoY there. Or you could trade KAT for a lot of assets and improve the team that way.
Milwaukee would have benefitted tremendously by moving Giannis to C and playing Randle at the 4 instead of Lopez.
Cleveland would have been better with Randle starting at the 4 than Mobley.
Randle would definitely improve Indy, the idea that he couldn’t adapt to a faster paced offense is horseshit. That’s a Thibs thing, not a Randle thing.
Orlando would have been better with Randle starting over one of Banchero or Wagner, take your pick.
Philly would be awesome between Embiid and PG13, you know, the seamless guy who can blend with anyone.
Randle would probably help Denver. Aaron Gordon would be awesome off the bench.
The Clippers can use all the help they can get. Of course he’d easily improve them without PG13.
He’s be awesome on the Lakers as a 3rd option.
The Suns could move Durant to the 3 and be better with Randle than they are right now.
Any bad team that doesn’t want to tank and doesn’t have a prospect at the 4 would find him useful. Hubert’s suggestion earlier if Washington makes sense.
Good teams are a harder fit. Teams like Boston, Milwaukee, LAL, LAC would never swap their 4s for Randle. Other teams Denver and Philly already have bigs that Randle wouldn’t fit next to.
Thinking about it, I feel like GSW could be a good fit. Dray covers some of his defensive shortcomings, it gives Curry another score/creator to work off, and GSW has enough shooting that Randle doesn’t fuck to their spacing.
So long as it’s clear that everything you’re saying is conjecture based on false assumptions about Randle only being able to play one way. For example, that he wouldn’t fit in an up-tempo offense.
In other words, I think he’s way more versatile than you are giving him credit for being. He can handle the ball, pass, shoot create and rebound and is not as bad defensively as you seem to think he is. Any team could use some of like him no matter who is on their roster.
You can’t play Randle and Gobert at the same time. It would totally fuck up the spacing for Anthony Edwards.
This is as insane as E complaining about OG and Mikal’s overlapping skill set. Randle hurts their spacing and their defense while taking the ball out of Gianni’s hands.
Maybe but there’s less than zero chance that Orlando would ever swap them.
Randle is a terrible fit next to Embiid. They play in the same spots and would just get in each other’s way.
Gordon is a lynch pin of their defense. And taking the ball out of Jokic’s and Murray’s hands doesn’t make sense.
This year, sure. I was discussing last year’s rosters.
What position is he playing? SG?! LeBron and Anthony Davis have been their full time 4 and 5 for years now.
The absolute last thing Phoenix needs is another ball dominant player next to Booker, Beal, and Durant. Not to mention, one that doesn’t stretch the floor for them.
The skillset matters more than the points. Allen is an excellent roll man but that’s not the ideal fit for us.
No fucking shit. Unless you’re reciting stats or CBA rules, everything everyone here is saying is pure conjecture including everything you’ve said.
Fat boy junior’s Jr premium vanilla ice cream sandwiches are fucking delicious. No conjuring there.
Dude…the whole point of Katz’s article is the math behind giving Randle something close to a max extension *and* saying below the second apron is very tricky! I don’t think anyone disagrees with the proposition that we should extend Randle so long as it doesn’t financially impair us at all.
I don’t even know what you think you’re arguing against. I’ve said a million times I think Randle is good, has a clear role on this team, and there should be no particular impetus whatsoever to trade him.
It’s also the case that there are clear barriers to him getting a max contract from another team. Some of those are endemic to Randle, others have more to do with the new CBA and the league landscape writ large. If you disagree, name the team!
“Fat boy junior’s Jr premium vanilla ice cream sandwiches are fucking delicious. No conjuring there.”
But would you trade it for a chipwich? And if so, who gets draft compensation?
Well listen here fuckety. I’m on record as predicting a career year from Randle. Mostly because I think his biggest flaws are mental conjurings. Being surrounded by a team of good guys can really help sort that shit out. I wouldn’t trade him for a chipwich. I would eat a chipwich. Three. He’s gonna earn more money than we want to pay him and then he will take less. Or Gianni’s forces his way here and the conversation shifts.
Yeah…. I actually would, when you consider 3 of the other 4 starters are out of the league 3 years later (Noel, Bullock and Payton) and he led that crew to a #4 seed and a ten game over .500 regular season.
He is, but he averaged fewer than 3 pnr FGAs a game.
But Bullock isn’t necessarily out of the league yet, unless I missed something
And 3 years can be a very long time in basketball
Aren’t you one of the folks that was convinced that we’d be over the second apron by now? Katz actually discusses a possibility that even on a max extension, we’d be under the second apron until 2026-27…and that’s if we retained everyone else in our rotation under contract. What I don’t understand is why Randle would opt in without an extension. Why take that risk?
This is what I’m arguing against:
I think this is a terribly flawed assumption. Care to venture a guess as to what he will be getting paid in 2026-27? I’ll go with $40M +/- $2M. We can bookmark it and have fun coming back to it in a couple of years.
Well you already named one. I have a feeling that there will be other teams with ample cap space (or the ability to easily generate it) that would be happy to bring an all-NBA player aboard for well more than his player option. Do we really need to go through the exercise of which teams can possibly have enough cap space to bring him on board, or would be willing to do a sign-and-trade with assets attached to swap him out at his extension number?
The NBA is pretty unpredictable. There are several teams that have done stuff that no one saw coming a year prior, including the Knicks. If he gets pissed and declines his option, I’m confident that he will be offered a contract something like the one Brunson took, if not for more.
“You can’t play Randle and Gobert at the same time. It would totally fuck up the spacing for Anthony Edwards.”
Right, because no coach could ever figure that out.
“Randle is a terrible fit next to Embiid. They play in the same spots and would just get in each other’s way.”
This is ludicrous.
“Gordon is a lynch pin of their defense. And taking the ball out of Jokic’s and Murray’s hands doesn’t make sense.”
All of your points are based on the deeply flawed assumption that Randle can only play one role effectively. A three forward rotation or Randle-Gordon-Porter Jr. would be awesomely flexible.
“This is as insane as E complaining about OG and Mikal’s overlapping skill set. Randle hurts their spacing and their defense while taking the ball out of Gianni’s hands.”
This is pretty funny because it is actually you who is making an E-like (i.e. insane) argument about overlapping skillsets and spacing.
BTW to be clear, I am not against trying to trade Randle if he doesn’t immediately accept a Brunson-like extension, i.e. one that involves him opting in and then starts at around $38M in 2026-27 with the same raises as Brunson.
Randle is a very good player who is difficult to build a contender around. I have believed that for a while.
Can’t believe Iga lost at Roland Garros.
Very happy for Simone. I had no idea about her personal story, her childhood etc. Just a fantastic capstone.
“Randle is a very good player who is difficult to build a contender around. I have believed that for a while.”
He is not an alpha on a contender. He’s similar to Melo in that way. That’s why when 40yo Jason Kidd had fumes left in the tank, Melo was at his best as a Knick.
Since he’s been on the Knicks, Randle has mostly been miscast as the team’s alpha out of necessity, and was pretty decent at it in 3 of 4 years, given the status of the team’s roster. Then last year he became a complementary star to alpha Brunson, and was playing some of the best ball of his career before he got submarined and blew out his shoulder.
I think he could be just as excellent as a complementary star to alpha (insert name here) if the Knicks decide that he’s too rich for their blood.
Windmills everywhere today