[ESPN] – Tue, 16 Jul 2024 02:37:00 GMT
- Knicks’ Dolan criticizes new media deal in letter
- Knicks James Dolan lashes out at NBA over $74.6 billion media deal in scathing letter
- NBA finalizes TV deals with ESPN, NBC, Amazon, but TNT could still match: Sources – The Athletic
- NBC Poised to Grab NBA All-Star Game Rights
- Heres what NBAs new media-rights deal means for possible Sonics return | Analysis
[New York Post] – Mon, 15 Jul 2024 22:04:00 GMT
- Mikal Bridges could follow Jalen Brunsons lead with Knicks contract discount
- NBA Rumors: Mikal Bridges Expected to Sign Knicks-Friendly Contract After Nets Trade
- Mikal Bridges expected to sign team-friendly extension with Knicks; Knicks sign veteran guard Cameron Payne
- REPORT: Mikal Bridges expected to sign a team-friendly deal when eligible
- Knicks Mikal Bridges Expected To Sign Team-Friendly Extension
[ESPN] – Tue, 16 Jul 2024 00:08:00 GMT
- Sources: Knicks agree to 1-year deal with Payne
- Cameron Payne gets playful fake name arrest jab from Josh Hart after his Knicks deal
- New York Knicks Sign Cam Payne
- Knicks signing veteran guard Cameron Payne to one-year deal
- NBA Rumors: Cameron Payne, Knicks Agree to $3.1M Contract After Jalen Brunson Deal
[Bleacher Report] – Mon, 15 Jul 2024 20:17:17 GMT
Knicks Rumors: NBA Insiders Question If Jalen Brunson Can Be Top Player on Title Team
[New York Post] – Mon, 15 Jul 2024 06:02:00 GMT
- Knicks’ Tyler Kolek thinks skillset is ‘little closer’ to Jalen Brunson’s than ‘lazy’ comparison
- Knicks Rookie Tyler Kolek Has One Word to Describe T.J. McConnell Comparison
- Knicks Bulletin: “Ive got to be that scrappy junkyard dog”
- Ishaan Bhattacharya: Nikola Jokic is always locked in when it comes to watching his horse race back
- Knicks rookie Tyler Kolek poised to quickly become a fan favorite
[Sports Illustrated] – Mon, 15 Jul 2024 14:00:00 GMT
New York Knicks Miscalculated Isaiah Hartenstein Value
[Sports Illustrated] – Mon, 15 Jul 2024 11:00:05 GMT
How Leon Rose’s Draft Patience Helped Knicks
[Sports Illustrated] – Mon, 15 Jul 2024 17:00:01 GMT
New York Knicks Rookie Already Seeing Difference in Summer League
[Empire Sports Media] – Mon, 15 Jul 2024 13:39:02 GMT
Knicks superstar admits former team didnt need me to reach NBA Finals
[New York Post] – Mon, 15 Jul 2024 13:21:00 GMT
- Nets’ Dorian Finney-Smith reveals what is was like being with Mikal Bridges when Knicks trade went down
- Nets Starter Looking to Break Knicks ‘Nova S***’
- Sean Marks, Cam Johnson, Dorian Finney-Smith discuss future of the Brooklyn Nets in Vegas
- Dorian Finney-Smith addresses trade rumors, reacts to Nets trading Mikal Bridges
- New York Notes: Finney-Smith, Nets, Johnson, Kolek
202 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.07.16)”
“Donnie Walsh says:
July 16, 2024 at 01:04
strat-“win trades”o-matic complaining that Trader Danny wins too many trades is pretty good stuff.”
lol!
Danny “Big Love” Ainge is the only GM who tries to add wives swaps in trades…
ainge has been in utah for 2 1/2 years and has traded away
mike conley
jared vanderbilt
bojan bogdanovic
kelly olynyk
malik beasley
royce o’neal
patrick beverley
nickeil alexander-walker
simone fontecchio
ochai agbaji
oh and donovan mitchell and rudy gobert
and he also traded for john collins, who was paying property taxes on the trade block
but yeah let’s whine about how he is so intransigent all the other owners should just freeze him out.
I had Lowry and Payne in my roster for this season as the backup PG, so i like this signing very much. Now we don’t need Kolek to deliver right away, he can develop slowly and that’ll be just fine. And if he surprises everybody, we play him and Payne is expendable.
Cyber, your boy Queta had a big game yesterday…
Clarence Beeks says:
July 16, 2024 at 02:06
7th pick. He’s better than Kevin.
Downtown Doogie Brown says:
July 16, 2024 at 04:35
Yes, Donovan Clingan was the 7th pick…….at least that’s what I remember. And yes, I agree that he’s likely better than Kevin Knox. Time will tell, however!
Yes, he did. Too bad we can’t get him to help our C problem.
Knicks fans would be demanding Ainge’s head if he were in charge here. Despite shipping out pt’s list of good players, he hasn’t exactly been killing it in the draft thus far… and now he has put arguably his best draft selection on the block.
Doogie, your obsession with Beeks is starting to get a little creepy.
“but yeah let’s whine about how he is so intransigent all the other owners should just freeze him out.”
Not to mention that a couple of these deals were not well received…e.g Bojan to the Pistons was widely panned, Royce O’Neale was traded for what turned out to be the 28th pick in the 2023 draft, Olynyk and Ogbaji went out for two stiffs and what turned into the 29th pick in this draft…those are hardly what I would call “sure wins”.
“Doogie, your obsession with Beeks is starting to get a little creepy.”
Starting to?!
Josh Hart is too funny! 😀
Yeah ess, Ainge is an excellent GM/POBO, but he has his warts. He got his chip with the Pierce-Garnett-Allen Big 3 and followed that up with killer deals, but never got a second one. Then he leaves the C’s and novice Brad puts them over the top in short order. Now he’s in year 3 of his rebuild in Utah and doesn’t have a lot to show for it. I get that they will be in a great position asset-wise for the next few years, but if he were here, we’d be miserable and the press and Dolan would be all over him.
I find myself in the odd position of wildly applauding dolan’s stance against the small-market cartel that runs basketball.
Of particular note is the league office somehow grabbed 8% of total revenue, an increase from 0.5%. The commissioner’s office is going to make $8 billion on this deal!
Meanwhile the quality of non regional broadcasts gets worse year after year. We all dread when the games shift from MSG to ESPN. This deal ensures more of that going forward.
We’re about to enter a decade of Oklahoma City and San Antonio being the dominant forces of the NBA largely bc their owners figured out how to apron the competition while protecting tanking (the scourge of sports) and leaving asset hoarding strategies unregulated (if payroll can be taxed so should your draft stash).
It’s past time the large market owners stand up for themselves.
Not sure why it is “creepy” that I respond to a specific poster. I also 1) respond to other posters, and 2) do not respond to all posts from that specific poster. How is this different than what all others are doing every single day? Not sure why I’m being called out on that. LOL
I liked Koka Kolek and Kolek the Barbarian tbh
Well done CB
He can’t even let it die on the previous thread; he has to repost it for us all to see and enjoy with our morning scones.
I’ll go to a different direction giving Vintage Polish Animation charm to our SL sensation!
Kolek Ballek
The Athletic’s team rankings are out, and as usual, there’s a lot of recency bias. I guess Denver must be considered a contender because of Jokic, but they got worse and weren’t exactly killing it last year. NO definitely got worse and are somehow ranked just behind the Knicks, which strikes me as laughable. Philly is down at #8, when they are absolutely a contender and have more depth to keep Embiid healthy. Nothing truly egregious, but not impressive insight either.
The piece did get me thinking about where the Knicks belong, and assuming some center depth is taken care of, I’m actually feeling #3 behind Boston and OKC. We are deep, deep, deep, and almost everyone has played together before either on the Knicks or elsewhere. We still have a few question marks – Julius’ shoulder, a backup (or main) big – but damn this team is good.
Which got me thinking about Leon and Ainge. Many if not most here agree that the best way to rebuild is through the draft, but Ainge is guilty not of extorting other teams in trades (a la Strat) but of being so focused on winning trades that he’s missing a window to get franchise-altering talent. The Jazz are in the purgatory the Knicks dominated for so long, and Ainge has been missing the forest for the trees. He could have tanked for Wemby; he should be tanking this year. But he’s not; he’ll re-sign Markannen, because he is waiting for the best deal.
On the flip side, Leon has pursued a path many here hated – the hybrid rebuild. So, so difficult to do, but he has succeeded. The Knicks have a legit shot at the championship, and a good long window as well. What’s been lost in appreciation for his moves, though, is the incredible trust he’s built in a very short time, with an organization run by, well, not the most beloved owner in the league. Again many here downplayed the importance of building a good reputation, but it’s had a measurable impact, including in Brunson’s deal and in general players wanting to come here. They know they will be treated well even if it doesn’t work out – Obi, RJ and IQ were sent to ideal situations for them, not treated as cattle awaiting the highest bidder…a la Ainge. A good reputation actually does help lead to winning, and perhaps is essential when you’re trying to go the hybrid model. I mean, he traded with Toronto while we’re suing then! That’s insane. And the extremely rare Nets trade – again thought impossible, but he did it. Rep counts for something after all.
I guess it’s just weird to be sitting here feeling we have a better front office than just about any team in the league other than Presti. So weird. But good!
Drafts and salary caps are massively anti-competitive and it’s kind of surprising there isn’t more of an outcry against them just on their fundamental merits. (*)
A bunch of whiners spend a couple decades whining about the NCAA and student-athletes while they stand entirely silent while people roughly the same age don’t get to choose their employer and find their salaries limited by cartel agreement.
What of course they’ll say is that it “promotes competition” on the floor, but that’s no different a stance analytically than the people who said NCAA student athlete rules “promote amateurism.”(**)
All the best soccer players in Europe wind up in Madrid or Munich or London or Paris or Manchester and European soccer seems to have survived quite well, so why shouldn’t New York be able to pay market prices for professional basketball players?
(*) If I’m an elite baseball pitcher, why should I be bound to a single employer I didn’t choose for roughly 10 years? There’s no ethical or moral basis for that. And making it worse is that the elite baseball pitcher is entirely at the mercy of the unchosen employer for the management of the health of his arm and body. Essentially, an unchosen employer could abuse the guys arm and he’d have no recourse and potentially be out nine figures lifetime. Absurd. All so America’s couch potatoes can be entertained while they get chubby in front of their TV sets.
(**) Which was way more of an actual real substantive thing than “I’ll get the sads if Oklahoma City can’t compete with New York in professional basketball.”
I’ve done that with other posters, as well, when the posts were very late on the previous day and no one saw them. I’m not the only one who copies late posts from the previous day over to the current day. Again, not sure why I am being called out for literally doing the same thing as many others do. 🙂
https://sny.tv/articles/knicks-signing-cameron-payne-one-year-deal
Ian reiterates the point that Payne’s arrival has nothing to do with Deuce, since the team views Deuce as an off-ball player, primarily. (Assuming a 9-man rotation, it sounds like DDV and Mikal will be the guys counted on to keep the offense running when Brunson is on the bench.)
“All the best soccer players in Europe wind up in Madrid or Munich or London or Paris or Manchester and European soccer seems to have survived quite well, so why shouldn’t New York be able to pay market prices for professional basketball players?”
While I agree with the gist of your post, I would argue that European soccer has survived, but not well. It is still in a state of civil war and could easily see blowing itself up along the fractures that currently exist.
Here’s the roster as of now:
C: Mitch / Sims / Hukporti (two-way deal)
PF: Randle / Hart / Bates-Diop
SF: OG / Dadiet
SG: Bridges / DDV / Deuce
PG: Brunson / Payne / Kolek
We have two more spots on the main roster, and two more two-way deals, I think? (Ian says we only have one player on a two-way right now, which would be Hukporti. I could have sworn we also signed Jacob Toppin, but apparently not?) I’m not sure what the plan is for McCullar, and we know that Leon generally prefers to roster only 14 guys on big league contracts to make trades slightly easier to facilitate.
But in theory, that 14th spot goes to another backup center, and McCullar and Toppin get the other two-way spots, and poor Archie has to assume Mikal’s old meme role as Squidward.
This might be fun for some of our NYC contingent to attend:
I will be extremely surprised if Markkenen is on the Jazz roster opening night. It is pretty hard to criticize Ainge for keeping Markkenen while literally tripling his market value. There was no one to tank for this year and they started out 10-3 the Wemby draft year.
IMO RSNs (regional sports networks, for Doogie) are largely incompetent enterprises (MSG excepted, actually) that function, essentially, as middle men between the sports products that justify their existence and the end-user. Production standards at RSNs are, at least to my untrained eye, astonishingly low (dear lord the announcers are bad!)
And the fewer games that are subject to regional blackouts and general balkanization, the better–for both the consumer and the league. As such, I don’t think Dolan’s complaint represents much of anything beyond “this deal hurts my pocket because it hurts MSG.”
I don’t really have a problem with revenue sharing and the comparison to soccer is inapt as most soccer leagues have a revenue sharing scheme in place so that the smaller teams can remain financially–and therefore competitively–viable. That said, I agree that things like the rookie-scale, the individual max, and the draft get in the way of market function and general competitiveness, rather than enabling it.
Revenue sharing is a vital component to a healthy league but it shouldn’t go to support intentional losing that ultimately grants you a decisive advantage.
Every time a new CBA comes along there’s more and more measures to prevent the Knicks from asserting the financial might but never a damn thing about the tanking.
What’s worse for a league: 1/3 of the teams spending too much money or 1/3 of the teams intentionally trying to lose?
It’s self evident which of the two should be regulated.
Of course Dolan didn’t actually touch on any of this, but any standing up to the league is good IMO.
Pretty sure we just extended him the QO to make him a RFA, so I’m kinda assuming we bring him back. However, we’re running out of room if we want to sign all our rookies, Toppin, and bring in Precious plus a taxpayer MLE player.
Roster
14) Precious?
15) Rokas?
2-way
1) Toppin?
2) Hukporti
3) McCullar
Hold for buyouts: Taxpayer MLE?
Season Ticketholder: Archie?
Unless Rokas absolutely balls out over the remaining Vegas games, and/or it appears that McCullar isn’t going to get healthy at all this year, I have a feeling Rokas is heading back to Europe summer league is done.
Interesting question and comment. Probably an overbid though.
Starting from first principles, obviously if the “Oklahoma City” team plays the “New York” team in New York, the Oklahoma City team should get a cut of the gate and the media revenue the game generates. I don’t think anyone would argue with that, or with the idea that there ethically and competitively could be a central office that centralizes it and even agrees on a set percentage. (*)
But to then go a step further and share revenue and have beneficiaries of the share that go far beyond what they actually generated, far different question. And there’s really no ethical or economically competitive basis to share revenue solely to subsidize smaller teams so they can perform relatively better on the court or field.
So I guess I disagree with the idea that there’s a broader “league health” that has any merit as a factor.
There’s simply no just basis to limit Victor Wembayama’s American employer options to the San Antonio Spurs, or to cap his salary at far below its real value. (**) “League health” or “better basketball competition” doesn’t begin to justify it. And obviously “the entertainment product put in front of couch potatoes” can’t, either.
(*) As opposed to, say, college football wherein a football factory will host a tomato can and the tomato can’s fee will be the product of a one-off contractual negotiation.
(**) This nonsense really doesn’t happen anywhere but in sports. Top law school grads aren’t “drafted” by law firms in San Antonio and law firms across the country haven’t conspired to collude on a “max salary” for incoming and veteran lawyers. It doesn’t even happen in non-sports entertainment. There’s no “draft” among the producing studios for a Tom Cruise or a Leo Dicaprio.
It’s also weird to list Deuce as an off-guard. We have Donte/Hart/Mikal/OG to fill the wing minutes, so I’m not sure how saying he’s a 2 makes him a rotation player either.
Feels like we should offer Donte or Hart for a C if Kolek looks like a legit backup PG. Give the backup SG minutes to Deuce and it solves a lot of issues.
That a bunch of relative Hootervilles shouldn’t be able to take New York’s money is his essential point and it’s spot-on, clueless and buffoonish though he was in execution.
Basketball players are free to play in other leagues, they aren’t limited to the NBA.
Players can gain employ in Spain or France or China or Puerto Rico or the NBL or the G-League or the Big 3 or the Globetrotters or the And1 team if that’s still a thing.
Generally speaking, the NBA is the best employer and pays the most money.
RIP Joe Jelly Bean Bryant, Kobe’s father.
After his NBA days he spent 8 seasons playing in Italy, scoring tons of points (including 69 in a game) while young Kobe was a pre-game mainstay.
That makes the most sense to me. I just wanted to illustrate that we can't fit all these guys. I put him on the roster because he's definitely going to Europe if we only offer a 2-way.
If he does want to come over, then I bet we trade his draft rights to a team without so many players in front of him as part of Leon's player appeasement program.
I do kind of want to see him stay as part of an end of the bench youth movement.
damn doogie, how many different ways does someone need to tell you to fuck off before you wake up and take notice…
seriously bro, pull your head out of your ass – open up your ears, and realize dude don’t really wanna fuck with you…
back the fuck up doogie…your ignorance in the matter doesn’t really count for shit…
wake the fuck up…what you are doing ain’t cool – at all…
Truly unsure as to what I did to arouse anyone’s ire today. I’ve barely posted. <shrug emoji>
geo…geo…geo….geo…
It’s hysterical that Doogie’s utter lack of self-awareness has triggered gentle geo and turned him into a raging tiger. Breathe, geo, breathe…
To badly paraphrase Raylan Givens, Doogie: If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. But if everyone is saying you’re the asshole all day long…
…….then they can still all be incorrect. I mean, generally I agree with you, but just because the “masses” all think or say something doesn’t make them right. I mean, we’re about to elect Donald Trump as President again after we dodged a bullet with him last time. Thousands of people write “ya’ll” instead of “y’all” and “opps” instead of “oops” on a daily basis, but they’re still wrong. 🙂
Big European clubs in the cities you listed just tried – unsuccessfully – to form a so-called Super League exactly because they didn’t think it was useful for them to be in the same league as smaller clubs who do not generate as much league.
Meanwhile, while European club football may be ‘healthy’, over the last 2-3 decades it has decimated national leagues in other parts of the world, particularly South America, as even tiny European clubs are able to purchase the rights to teenagers who are not even playing for their main clubs because these clubs cannot match offers in the same stratosphere.
Ironically the fact that you guys have beaten this quote to death with so many different posters literally makes you the ones who keep running into assholes.
Interesting perspective, Hubert. I wouldn’t have thought of that on my own, but I like it.
As a point of order, this quote is badly bollixed up.
And there’s really no ethical or economically competitive basis to share revenue solely to subsidize smaller teams so they can perform relatively better on the court or field.
I give you the ABA, for those old enough to remember it, as a counter. No revenue share, smaller market teams folded as their rosters’ G league type players attracted hardly any fans, and soon you had a “league” with too few teams to make it interesting.
The point that it’s pretty off-putting for small market teams to both accept generous revenue sharing and continue to tank does resonate with me, but I think that speaks more to the need for serious tanking reform than anything else. Of course, that doesn’t mean revenue sharing should be as generous as it is, or that it shouldn’t be contingent on its beneficiaries actually spending the shared revenue!
I’m not totally convinced that New York, LA, etc. would naturally come to dominate a league without a draft, salary cap, and all of the rest of the anti-competitive accoutrements. Obviously their financial might would be a major advantage, but you don’t have to look any further than MLB to see there’s still no substitute for sound management (MLB does still have a draft of course, but is otherwise much closer to the capitalist wild west than the NBA–especially when you account for international free agents).
Repost
I’m arguing the extremity of how Ainge operates is not good for the NBA/players and as result not good for the fans.
By way of comparison, Presti is a great dealmaker. He gets good value on almost all his deals. But I don’t hear any complaints about how he treats players and he doesn’t badly damage the teams he does business with.
Ainge is similar to Hinkie in that there is nothing wrong with tanking or winning trades, but Hinkie took tanking to a distasteful extreme and treated players like spread sheet entries so they pushed him out of the league.
Yes, I think owners and agents should avoid doing business with Ainge.
The core of the complaint is not his activity level. It’s that he’ll almost never deal unless he thinks he’s fleecing the other team. He often deals with the weakest link in the league, fleeces them, and leaves them damaged long term.
How is this good for the NBA and fans?
You can make good value oriented deals without that as many other managements have done including Rose.
The Celtics also basically destroyed Isaiah Thomas’s career and then cast him aside like a POS when he was done. Nice guy. I’d love to play for him…NOT.
IMO, you have to think of the league as an umbrella corporation and each team as a separate business under the umbrella. Each team (business) is working to maximize their own results as an individual, but the primary goal is to maximize the whole corporation while competing with other sports and forms of entertainment.
The goal is not for one team to keep totally fleecing the weakest links, to use their financial advantages to dominate the others, or to tank into oblivion and make some games unwatchable for some long term gain.
How best to simultaneously maximize the league and allow for the best run franchises in the best cities to make the most money is debatable, but there are clearly multiple goals.
It’s not much different in other major corporations that are in multiple businesses. The various businesses compete internally for salaries, bonuses, budgets, employees, expansion capital etc… but the primary goal is the success of the umbrella corporation.
Yes, the quote was definitely bolloxed up. However, I knew what they were so badly attempting to say. 🙂
Strat I feel like what you’re saying is applicable to the Nets trade but not much else.
Minnesota and Cleveland are hardly some weak links who got taken advantage of. They’re two of the top teams in their respective conferences who would likely make those trades again if they had to.
Our direct competition for titles is the Oklahoma City Thunder and we have to sit here and make cuts and sacrifices to keep our team afloat while they get to raid our team for players and have no such concerns bc they got to tank and hoard assets on our dime.
The upcoming dominance of OKC and the birth of another San Antonio dynasty should serve as catalysts for change in the same way Miami’s big 3 and Golden State adding Durant did.
The pendulum has swung too far.
They didn’t tank. They rebuilt after their superstar left them. They won 8 more game from 2020-‘22 (aka their “tank years”) than the Knicks’ won from 2018-‘19. They had good management and the Knicks didn’t. I’m sure there’s a basis for reasonable criticism here, but this just seems like privileged whining to me.
The league seems to have fixed the tanking problem. Only the Pistons, Hornets, Wizards, and Spurs haven’t legitimately competed for a playoff spot until the final weeks over the past two seasons. That is good for the league, they are doing a good job.
Did I make an opps to ya’ll when I wrote “To badly paraphrase”?
I agree with not classifying Cleveland and Minnesota as weak links, but I think he robbed both of them even though both are good teams now.
Let’s just leave it at I don’t like Ainge and think he’s bad for the league.
I’m not a big fan of the way Morey does business and treats players either, but imo he’s less competent and the players are starting to figure him out. 😉
I see it more as relatively rich ownership groups dominating less rich ones without some guardrails and disincentives.
I do feel that there are serious inefficiencies in all three areas: revenue sharing, draft structure, and salary cap. But the league undoubtedly benefits as a whole from some degree of competitive balance.
It’s interesting that the Knicks have rebuilt via a method most here vehemently disparaged, and a method that seemed organic and healthy for the league even with the nepotism and tampering aspects of it. They didn’t get lucky ever in the lottery, didn’t hit any homers in the draft, and squandered some draft opportunities. They even got burned by Dallas tanking in 2023! And by the iHart salary issue!
I think the rigidity of the cap is harmful. Having amnesty of some sort might help teams like Chicago and Washington not consider full-on tanking as the only way out. Limiting even further the amount of draft picks in a deal might help.
Owners operate within the salary cap structure in their own interests. Can’t regulate individual owners just the rules via whatever players/owners agree to in the CBA.
In terms of what the owners/players should agree to, each in their own interests. They both want to maximize total pot of revenue but also try to win split. Competitive balance maximizes revenue (look at NFL vs. Baseball). From the players perspective, it is a balance between maximizing revenue via competitive balance and maximizing pot split which often goes against competitive balance.
It’s kind of like taxes from the perspective of rich vs. poor. You can tax only so much before the pot starts getting smaller and it stops helping the poor. Not making a political argument here as to what that level is, only that there is some level at which point the pot starts getting smaller via the economy stopping working and individual productivity incentives getting screwed up.
The analogy being zero cap (free market) delivers a larger split to the players but not necessarily a larger total pot.
Ainge is a dick. He was a dick when he played hoops, he was a dick when he played baseball, he was (and appears to still be) a dick as an exec. Doesn’t automatically make him a ‘bad’ exec, however. I suspect an awful lot of execs are dicks (except Leon, who is just soft and cuddly).
And geo, you asked a few days ago about what was toxic about my work environs from before; that pretty much sums it up. To me, narcissism is all seven deadly sins.
Sad story (for me) — for a while in the late 1990s and early 2000s I lived in western Mass, and back then the only basketball shown in the state was Celtics. So I held my nose and watched them. And they were TERRIBLE, Pierce doing his Melo impersonation and Antoine Walker wiggling his butt and so on. And I really felt like Ainge stunk up the joint for years, terrible decision after terrible decision, before in that tiny window Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett happened and he was crowned a genius.
He’s done some good stuff since then (NJ), and maybe he just had a slow learning curve. But I’m not too impressed and pretty agnostic about him overall. Just glad I got to move back to NY.
They won 22 and 24 games in back-to-back seasons while being subsidized for losing.
And yes, this is whining.
Every time a big market team does something good, the small market owners whine until they get the rules changes to prevent it from happening again.
Whining works.
Ainge doesn’t work for the league office. He works for his employing team and his job is to extract every single bit of value humanly possible to create the best product for his owner. He does a pretty fair job of it.
Let me put it in a different frame of reference. You bet horses professionally/semi-professionally, correct. You understand there are trainers who , shall we say, push the medication envelop beyond the rules and seem to get away with it 99% of the time.
Do you bet their horses when you perceive them at good value? Of course you do because that is what you want…. an edge over the opposition.
Ainge provides an edge over his competitors by being a better handeler than most of his opponents. Bully for him.
The CBA largely represents the interests of the small market owners.
Dolan and the big market owners should have held out for a republic instead of a democracy in their original Constitution and By Laws. Shows the lunacy of 50%+1. 🙂
At least 7 teams are gearing up to tank hard for Cooper Flagg next season:
Washington, Brooklyn, Utah, Chicago, Charlotte, Detroit, Portland.
Interesting case study, to be sure but I see it more as:
1. There’s nothing unethical in a business failing, it happens all the time and certainly there’s no ethical case that a bunch of cartel-ish anti-competitive (*) things can or should be done to prop it up.
2. The NBA cartel itself prevented potentially viable franchises from joining — it let only four of the teams into the league. Open up the market and Louisville, for example, could have given it a good go.
(*) Again, “competitive” meaning in the economic and business sense, not the on-the-floor basketball sense which, while interesting to a lot of us, doesn’t really carry much weight when we pass back-and-forth to the more advanced adult world.
The core of the complaint is not his activity level. It’s that he’ll almost never deal unless he thinks he’s fleecing the other team. He often deals with the weakest link in the league, fleeces them, and leaves them damaged long term.
How is this good for the NBA and fans?
it’s ok to not like danny ainge. most people don’t like danny ainge. but you are telling yourself fairy tales in the service of not liking danny ainge. tim connelly, masai ujiri, koby altman, sean marks…these are some of the arm’s length counterparties to recent danny ainge trades. they don’t need your protection, and your opinion as to whether they did good deals, while premium content for knickerblogger dot net, is not going to convince anyone on planet earth to sign your boycott petition.
Nope, not then, Raven. But you did now, multiple times in fact.
Now you’re complaining about stuff that hasn’t even happened yet.
Utah was geared up to tank after trading Gobert and Mitchell, but ended up competing for a playoff spot into April; OKC tanked their way into the play-in.
I know your thing here is to make damning universal statements about undetermined future events, but your thing here is also to be wrong a lot. Dolan may need a better advocate, since he’s starting out on this crusade with no friends to begin with.
New York needs a better voice than Dolan to be sure, but there’s a very real question as to why the ridiculous amount of money we pay for tickets here goes to prop up the owners of Oklahoma City and San Antonio — places that charge far less for tickets — and the like … rather than into better players that we’ve proven more than willing to pay for.
Why am I paying for their players? Or to prop up their non-free-market franchise values? Or, as Hubert said, to put in their owners’ pockets while they tank to get players New York might be willing to pay more for?
There’s really no other realm of economic life that works this way. The best theater actors (in English) by and large flock to New York and London because they get paid more in those places. No reason basketball or baseball should be any different.
Dolan’s attacking the issue from the angle of MSG Network, his RSN, getting screwed — but the same issue runs even broader.
Open up the market and Louisville, for example, could have given it a good go.
Agreed. One of the most interesting sport franchise stories ever. Sharing NBA revenue without a team then giving it to Madoff!
Bob, you’re thinking of the Spirits of St. Louis. Not Louisville.
E, you’re making far more of a free market argument than I am. And while I largely agree with you, it’s pie-in-the-sky at this point.
What I’m getting at is more about how teams like the Knicks right now are currently dealing with aprons and transaction rules largely due to the success of the Golden State Warriors, which was entirely within the rules and accomplished through smart management.
Similarly when the Miami Heat used smart management to acquire a big three, they changed the rules then to make that harder, too.
There have been so many reactions to the success of teams in favorable markets while the methods of small market teams have been almost entirely unregulated. So start balancing out the legislation. If you can artificially limit the number of players a large market team can pay, why not start limiting the amount the of surplus picks a small market team can horde?
why not start limiting the amount the of surplus picks a small market team can horde?
Like this …the anti Stepien rule. And surely would be given more thought than the original which seemed very kneejerk/vindictative.
Dumb question: where is Precious Achiuwa today?
Not on this forum.
One thing I ‘d like to see is a rule like MLB where you can’t trade draft picks at all. If the idea is to make sure the worst teams get the best incoming talent, then make sure that happens.
I’ve thought about the idea of not allowing teams to trade draft picks until a year after they have been exercised. (meaning not at all, and not right after the draft either.)
The easiest way to solve the narrow issue of small-market teams pocketing revenue sharing money is to require acceptance of it to come with a higher salary floor. If the whole idea is to level the playing field spending wise, well, let’s literally level the playing field.
Of course, this wouldn’t solve the tanking issue because it’s plenty easy to tank even if you have to spend a lot. Ultimately I continue to think the league would be healthiest if it just completely decoupled record from draft position. The draft wheel idea remains my preferred method of doling out picks. It comes with issues of its own that are obvious enough, but I think they’re all the lesser evil compared to literally rewarding losing, and worse yet, doing so in an arbitrary fashion in which equally moribund teams can wind up with drastically different draft fates.
They could just keep the lottery but just do something like 2 tiers and make the percentages the same for 1-7, 8-14. That would help with the tanking more I would think.
Oh, gosh
Any chance anyone else here in Vegas?
tyler needs to stop going under so much
Looking a lot like a G-league game.
lol dadiet squeezed the melon too hard
well…at least no brandon miller or the other dude who was a monster from 3…we should be ok once karpotsev starts to dominate…
I saw a lot of negatives about Huk from the last game. I watched from Q2 to the end and saw a lot of good from him. He’s a presence. I think he needs some work on perimeter defense and general seasoning, but he’s showing that he’s a presence down low with plus offensive game.
When the ball is in TK’s hands the Knicks seemingly always wind up with a good shot. When the other guys try to create it usually is a disaster.
So kind of like Frank?
washington jjr should stick to shooting only
Gary Trent is a much better player than I thought the Bucks would be able to add.
That was a crazy perfect cross court inbounds pass by TK.
Dadiet has lost his guy on defense at least twice, just zero idea where he was
At least Pacome’s shoulder stayed in socket there.
love to see the jaquez charge attempt in summer league
hey early bird…are you sitting next to thibs?
Would basketball be any worse if they eliminated the possibility of a help charge?
didi i say tyco roman orgy or what
I’m on the Nets bench side because I got better seats there
Rokas can dunk!
I think Dadiet is moving his feet better on D this game. Huk’s motor also seems better.
Skapintscrub is making hay out there!
Jacob Toppin is not far from being intriguing as an end of bench guy…
told you samsonov would dominate….
nets better not be counting on their youth to bolster the team this yr..
Duane Washington Jr. has the vibe of a Rucker League legend…
Not loving Duane taking the ball up instead of Rokas. Maybe it’s a lack of practice and not knowing plays thing, still don’t like it
That’s a real insult to the G-League
the dadiet motor doesn’t idle
Is Skapintstiff all that much worse than Sims?
skapinstozev is baryshnikov like in his forays to the hoop…
kolek is erring a bit too far toward pass only but he still looks great doing it
number 17 is fast and can pass on the break…we don’t have anyone on our roster that does that…
Dadiet’s shot looks much flatter than it did in his film.
that last catch shoot was definitely ugly but he also looked a bit winded
kolek makes very early decisions, mostly in a good way. he’s the new chad pennington.
Dadiet can’t make a shot to save his life but he’s rebounding and running around all over the place.
washington jr is our ringer in this game…
i remember thinking duane washington looked nice when he played summer league for the pacers
I wonder if Duane Washington Jr. can stick as a deep bench scoring guard, either with us or someone else. But he seems to not have much court vision.
kolek and huk just did the jalen and ihart short roll play
its summer league…everyone makes a run
Huk’s got a bit of a Julius vibe to him…
huk has nice composure with the ball. he needs a lot of pnr reps on d though.
13 turnovers in 1st half, 0 from TK though. Reiterates my point from earlier…
I remember liking Jaylen Wilson when he was briefly on the Knicks last year or whenever…
Kolek has 7pts through 6Qs, don’t love it. He can’t get to the basket at all. I’m worried Duane takes the ball up because Kolek can’t.
Nets can’t get across half court against Baugh, lots of pressure
Dmytro is like 4″ taller than everyone on the Nets and it’s really obvious from here
I can see only 5 guys with roster potential: Kolek, Dadiet, Toppin, Hukporti and Skapintsev.
dadiayyyy…c’est bien!
Dadiet!
Now we have some NBA basketball being played!
defense has picked up…coaches must have yelled at halftime..
Dadiet with the overpass there…
skapinsky is our spark plug
RoKolekas backcourt?
If this was a real game Thibs would be having a heart attack with all these turnovers.
I’m getting tired of Washington’s turn-overs.
i like how that guy 00 on nets just made the motion to do a video replay on that push off call…like dude…its summer league…
I can’t spell either name, but I want to see if Skapintsev and Hukporti are both on the pre-season roster. I think that’ll be a good competition.
Teams still drilling shot clock beating 35ft prayers against the Knicks even during Summer League.
If Skap and Huk are competing for anything important in preseason, we’re in trouble.
Nothing is black and white or 100%.
When major deals get discussed you typically get “grades” or opinions on who won from people that follow basketball closely. Occasionally, a major deal looks highly suspect. Ainge has been part of a few of those.
I’m not here to convince anyone in the NBA how to run their business. No one in the NBA cares what I think. I’m simply stating that IMO it’s never in the interests of the NBA to have one sided major deals.
It’s just conversation.
He will continue to pull off the occasional major deal I think is a robbery.
The loser’s position will be damaged badly relative to where it was.
He’ll do it again and again.
I’m not sure if he’s going to get what he wants for Markkanen. That’s what provoked this venting to begin with. But if he does, it will be another robbery – just as getting him, a pile of picks and swaps, and other young players was to land Mitchell (a potential debacle we avoided). I happen to like Markkanen quite a bit, just not anywhere near as much as he’s asking and teams might pay.
Skap on D moves like the bronze giant in the original Jason and the Argonauts…
I will say both SL Knick bigs clearly have much more basketball skill than Sims.
Sims can at least move his feet and box out. Huk can’t get a rebound and Skap just stands there with his arms up like Chief in Cuckoo’s Nest.
Sims is 1000% a better athlete than both of them no doubt.
nice z-man 😊
Hard to not root for Gilyard, a bona fide short king.
Speaking of which, surprised this insane story about Nate went unmentioned today: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40565273/inside-three-nba-dunk-champion-nate-robinson-silent-battle-fight-life?ex_cid=espnapi_affiliate_abcotv
Sounds like everything is more or less settled now, but he almost died due to bureaucratic nonsense and his own sensitivity. Crazy, thank god someone got to him.
If Duane Washington Jr. keeps this up I will fully commit to memory that he is a separate, distinct person from DaQuan Jeffries.
the war criminal Duane Washington Jr must face justice
I saw your comments the other day and can say that we are in disagreement. I’m not calling them NBA starters but both have skills to build on.
Washington shoots everything that come close to his hands, he makes Zo Trier look like John Stockton…
I only watched a couple minutes here and there but Dadiet moves around like he’s 6’5″ which is promising
44 of the 69 FGA by the Nets have been 3pters.
I’m done with Washington.
we need to fire our summer league coach
Toppin getting injured has derailed the SL Knicks.
kolek not getting the whistle
Skap for 3!
skaaaaaaapinkskeeee
I was all set to say Skap has a bunch of skills, but all sub-NBA level. Then he hit a 3. I mean. That’s something.
The Knicks 3pt defense in this game might be the worst ever played in the history of organized basketball.
Tyler doesn’t seem to want anything to do with the basket himself…
Edit: yay, he went to the hoop finally…
if kolek gets more agressive…he will be a decent back up…not much else out there to get excited about…no 17 has physical skills…not sure what his chances are though…
Koka Kolek had two nice drives there at the end. Skapadoodle apparently hit 30% of his threes last year (and that was a nice stroke).
That’s Baugh who me and geo liked yesterday. Excellent, disruptive defense without getting out of position. His offense is a question mark though.
Biggest bright spot is Kolek thru 2 games has 14 asts and 0 tos. Shooting 4 for 7 from 2pt range but only 1 for 7 from 3pt range while hitting both his FTs.
It’d be nice if Kolek tried to score at the basket before the last minute of the game
Hukporti some good passes out of the PnR
Toppin always goes to the same move when attacking closeouts, Nets read that and got a steal
Rokas should not get a roster spot
Dadiet might be good if he could shoot at all
yeah…baugh seems like a thibs type of guy…defense oriented
Skapintsev is 26 years old, so I think his ship has sailed. He showed very little in even the G-League over the last two years. I don’t see any way that he is going to be on our roster. My guess is that he would be an absolute disaster in anything but garbage time in an actual NBA game.
Huk is young and raw, so he sucks right now but who knows whether he will develop. He was the last guy picked in a meh draft so I don’t expect a whole lot. But at least there’s hope.
“His offense is a question mark though.”
Not really. The question has been answered.
Toppin got hurt so he may miss rest of the games. If Washington sits out any games would be nice to see Kolek playing without those 2 cause he’d then clearly be the guy always with the ball in his hands and might lead to seeing him try to score more.
well, after just 2 summer league games my confidence in the team getting much help from any rookies this season has gone down a bit…
thank goodness we signed cameron payne…
let’s wrap up precious now…
Skapintsev is 26 years old, so I think his ship has sailed. He showed very little in even the G-League over the last two years. I don’t see any way that he is going to be on our roster. My guess is that he would be an absolute disaster in anything but garbage time in an actual NBA game.
zman you should love him. he was born the same day as mo bamba.
This is such low-quality basketball that it’s hard to take anything of value away. Guys like Gilyard, Washington, and Wilson look like stars, but we know that they are utter scrubs at the NBA level. The stories of guys who have been around for a few years suddenly becoming viable NBA players are few and far between. It does happen…see: Miami Heat. But no non-rookie I saw on the Knicks SL roster seems like they have a legit chance.
“zman you should love him. he was born the same day as mo bamba.”
Not quite Arnold and Danny in Twins…
Kolek feels like a good pickup. He’s a got two very important NBA skills… he can dribble and he can pass. Maybe his shooting translates, but for a break in case of emergency roster spot he seems fine. Dadiet is not the best French player picked in this year’s draft. We need a backup center option. These big guys would all be minced meat at the next level. Baugh is quick and forceful….
also More Than Ever is a helluva movie… it’s not for everyone but Vicky Krieps is just so incredible in it
Isn’t AST% one of the summer league stats that correlates the most with NBA performance? Kolek is encouraging from that perspective.
Vickie Creeps
Scott Perry has been very good in interviews about the Knicks over the last couple of years. He analysis of what he thinks the Knicks should do has tended to precede what they eventually did do. I suspect he’s still as closely plugged in as anyone. He’s saying the same things we have been saying. He thinks if Mitch stays healthy they have enough to compete for a conference final. However, since that’s a risk they need a higher quality backup C. IMO, a trade is coming. I don’t think we are going into the season with Precious as the backup unless they have something big in mind for the trade deadline.
Kolek doesn’t really seem to be even trying to score. Dadiet was a bit of a mess but the quarter or so I watched he looked much more impactful than in the first game
Here’s the Scott Perry interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH5wVSt5w7o
tell me clarence – you ever have a someone want to stick their tongue up your ass so badly as doogie seems too…
seriously, you do not want to turn your back on that untrustworthy motherfucker…
I’m not exactly one to turn the other cheek too much…hopefully you can try to ignore them…
seems short of being able to put hands on doogie – he refuses to let you be…
fucking creepy behavior was the perfect thing to call it…
Uh oh, I feel like a long, graphic list might be in the works…
It’s starting to get creepy how much people are paying specific attention to me and what I am posting, even when I am not specifically responding to anyone at all. I guess it’s OK if most people on here purposely misspell people’s names (see Burks, Alec), but not OK if I literally do the exact same thing. And now my trustworthiness is being questioned, as if that has anything at all to do with purposely misspelling people’s names. I’m actually one of the most trustworthy people you’d ever know. 🙂
Glad we’re keeping these games close. Need much more information on these guys before coming to any kind of conclusion.
fuck you…leave clarence the fuck alone…
understand that…
LOL I wasn’t posting to anyone specifically. Only one person on here is currently doing that. Why ya buggin’?
It’s true. It didn’t really look like Kolek was looking for his shot. I didn’t get the feeling that the “moment was too big for him” or anything like that, though. I definitely have the sense that he was coached in these games (and maybe especially in this specific game) to concentrate on his playmaking for others. I don’t know that assist percentage is specifically telling, but I do tend to look at a player’s assist-to-turnover ratio.
It’s a really good movie. I loved her in Corsage. Wanna see her in the Viggo Mortenson Western now. Really captures a person at the end of their line grappling with consent.
You go for it.
Kolek has a 14:0 AST:TO ratio over two games. It doesn’t get any better than that. (Well, I guess it would be “better than that” if he had amassed even more assists without getting any turnovers, but y’all know what I mean.)
I don’t want to overrate Kolek’s ast/to ratio, he had some very loose moments under pressure and was kinda lucky to not be credited with a TO. That said, he looked more than competent, and in these helter-skelter games he was fine.
geo, you’ve offered fair commentary when I’ve gotten heated, now it’s my turn to return the favor. Doogie is in the wrong here, but Beeks is hardly an innocent bystander. Jus’ sayin’, chillax my friend! Doesn’t even sound like you!
Alex Sarr putting on a show
Of that we can be sure I have played my part and I am sorry for being careless with your feelings, Doogie. Can we, for the sake of all the innocent bystanders on this forum we so enjoy, agree to live and let live.
Holy shit you pulled this reference from deep down in your bag.
I see you zman
Did I read it right that Sarr shot 0 for 15 tonight?
“Holy shit you pulled this reference from deep down in your bag.
I see you zman”
For the unenlightened…
What happened to Toppin?
Just want to check on geo here. Very unlike him to blow a fuse, no matter how insufferable certain contributors can be. You okay, uncle geo?! Love to you and your fam. Safe travels!
Second that. I’m also sorry to be part of shenanigans that would upset ya. Appreciate you.
I’m fine donnie…certain stuff I’m just short on patience with…
stop apologizing clarence, you tried to squash shit a couple of days ago…
you’ve actually tried a couple of times now…
I don’t know why doogie does what he does…after a while motivations don’t matter much to me…
the snide sniping comments thing though triggers me…
it triggers me even more when it triggers someone else and they ask that person to stop, and that person refuses to do so…
I have no doubt that you are more than capable of speaking for yourself…didn’t mean to overstep…
I don’t know, just felt like doogie had found a soft spot on you, and wouldn’t leave it alone, even after you asked him to…
hopefully the issue has passed…we shall see…