[ESPN] – Thu, 20 Jun 2024 12:00:00 GMT
NBA trades we want to see: Major moves in Cleveland and New York
[CBS Sports] – Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:01:00 GMT
2024 NBA mock draft: Alex Sarr still No. 1 despite rumors, Lakers take big swing, Knicks go offense-defense
[sny.tv] – Thu, 20 Jun 2024 11:25:02 GMT
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[New York Post] – Thu, 20 Jun 2024 23:43:00 GMT
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[sny.tv] – Thu, 20 Jun 2024 14:30:43 GMT
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[The Philadelphia Inquirer] – Thu, 20 Jun 2024 22:32:27 GMT
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[New York Daily News] – Thu, 20 Jun 2024 16:36:02 GMT
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[New York Post] – Thu, 20 Jun 2024 13:30:00 GMT
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104 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.06.21)”
Re Giddey’s improved FT shooting. I’d be concerned that his improvement is random variance just because he takes so few FT. He took a Jared Jeffries-esque 1.6 FTA/game this season. If he has missed 10 more FT he would have been at least season’s percentage, missing 12 more would’ve put him back at his rookie year percentage. Of course, it does work the other way as well.
About last thread, i’m with KFNINJ, if you can trade for a 22 yo goddess, you should do it. 😀
“Giddey isn’t awful, he’s young, he’s big for his position, he’s an excellent passer. . but he also just got played off the court in the playoffs and he’s got one year left on his rookie deal. Nobody is drafting 1 year of Josh Giddey in the high lottery.”
Giddey was excellent in his first playoff series. Then he ran into Kyrie and Doncic, a team that disposed of the Clips and Wolves, and was replaced in the starting lineup. And as JK pointed out, he was really good after the all-star break. If RJ Barrett had put up a single season as good as Giddey’s 2023-24 season, the whole pre-trade narrative on him would have been blown up.
Good luck hitting on a better 21yo prospect than him in the top 5 of this draft.
“Re Giddey’s improved FT shooting. I’d be concerned that his improvement is random variance just because he takes so few FT. He took a Jared Jeffries-esque 1.6 FTA/game this season. If he has missed 10 more FT he would have been at least season’s percentage, missing 12 more would’ve put him back at his rookie year percentage. Of course, it does work the other way as well.”
I, for one, don’t place a lot of stock in the FT vs. 3PT shot thing. There’s enough variance to take it with a grain of salt.
The larger point is that all three of Giddey’s %s (2, 3, FT) have improved each year. He also improved on his in-season percentages in the playoffs (.537/.353/.875.) Has he topped out? He doesn’t turn 22 for another 4 months. I’ll take the over.
BTW DRed, Chicago is not getting one year of Giddey. They are getting one year of him at $8.3M and the opportunity to match any offer he might get as a RFA. No one here was bailing on IQ after he put up 13 games and 252 minutes of playoff vomit at ages 23-24 and folks here were ready to throw $25-30M AAV at him to keep him in the fold. Is IQ a better bet than Giddey? Maybe, maybe not.
I wouldn’t put any stock in Giddey’s improvement from 2 and 3 this year since it amounted to a 0.6% and 1.2% improvement over last season. He obviously still has upside, and he would definitely go in the top 5 of this draft, but it seems like a pretty poor return for a player as in demand as Caruso.
Whether he was right or wrong will only be found in the fullness of time, but Leon certainly wasn’t interested in throwing 25-30M at IQ and was ready to bail on him.
Chicago seems to be buying something that isn’t there yet. They either think he’ll blossom with the ball in his hands more or they think he’ll be able to shoot.
Defense can be improved, but he looks really damn slow out there and that’s hard to overcome.
There’s worse bets than a 6’8″ player who can pass, rebound, and score
But enough sideshow, SGA-Caruso-Jalen-Dort-Chet is a scary team and they’ve still got a lot of picks to unload.
I don’t like the Giddy trade for the simple reason that I think it slightly increases the chances of an OKC aggressive iHart pursuit. A win now and less devotion to 5-out move.
Giddey, not Giddy, is a replacement for Lonzo Ball. They do the same stuff.
And thongs on dudes are a horrific concept.
BE, I see the opposite, having Caruso out there makes it less necessary to spend a lot of money on a rim protector with limitations. But we’ll see soon enough!
Missed this last night:
Tom Ziller also says the Kings will try to move/upgrade Harrison Barnes or Kevin Huerter.
Giddey can’t really shoot yet, his 3pt percentage looks okay until you realize he only takes wide open 3s. The Bulls preferring a young player over Caruso makes perfect sense, since they’re not going anywhere soon, but they have one year of Giddey before they have to pay him and they didn’t even get a pick from a team that has so many picks they won’t be able to roster them all.
If I were OKC, I’d prefer to grab another wing like Caldwell-Pope, Bridges, or Bruce Brown (fortunately they can’t afford OG). They really only need a backup big like Garuba… overpaying for iHart doesn’t make a lot of sense IMO.
Jeez has anyone else heard about this guy?:
Just looking at the list of UFAs and wondering if there should be any interest under various scenarios in Jalen Smith C/PF from Indiana who is said to be likely to decline his 5M player option?
I saw a piece about him the other day and there was some film of him playing where unsurprisingly he needs a lot of work on his limited skills and moves glacially. He appears to be ranked 69th among this year’s class entering college. He is gigantic, but actually has a fairly normal weight distribution, unlike Manute Bol.
I hope for his sake he has been checked for Marfan’s Syndrome.
Solid rebounder and if his 3P% is real he’d be pretty interesting. But his defensive stats don’t look good and you have to figure that Thibs would bury him if he can’t play D.
giddey is fun as hell but it’s a long road for him to really work on a good team. he’s usually the worst defender on the court guarded by the other team’s worst defender. some of that comes from being miscast off the ball and ignored on the perimeter. but one yellow flag is that his numbers without sga don’t pop the way, say, FVV’s did without lowry or jalen’s did without luka. my biggest concern with him is that three years in and on a good, well coached team he still floats around on defense like he thinks he’s draymond when he’s actually doug mcdermott. if his shot really comes around all is forgiven for sure but i’m skeptical given the visuals. might already be the best slobber i’ve ever seen. in all likelihood okc isn’t done and i expect them to going into 24-25 as the favorite in the west. let’s hope they dip into another cookie jar for their next get.
“might already be the best slobber i’ve ever seen.”
Pretty sure I don’t know what this means. Not even sure that I want to.
Espn+ has a contender tier rating today…we’re in 3…celts..in tier 1…denver…dallas…minny…okc tier 2 ..us and Philly in tier 3…though the tiers have funky names…and mezzanine is not used
That’s pretty much how I view us. LAC, Phoenix, and Milwaukee could all be in our tier as well depending on what happens this summer.
I mean, the kid is 21, I kind of feel the same way about him as I did about RJ, you can at least somewhat discount the seasons he started just after his 19th, 20th, and 21st birthday and think of him as a guy who was drafted too soon and yet still hung with NBA starters on a playoff caliber team. Like RJ, he’s been coddled and spoiled, but also like RJ, he’s getting a wake-up call. Now he’s playing for a contract and a veteran old school coach. I don’t like the trade per se, but how it ages depends on whether Giddey makes just enough of a leap that he won’t get a crazy offer and will extend on the kind of deal IQ wanted.
Slobber (noun) (slob-ber): Someone who loves getting fucked up to the point of dribbling.
I think Giddey is going to be better with the ball in his hands making plays. He didn’t really fit with OKC. Whether he improves his shot and defense only time will tell. I don’t think it was a bad gamble for the Bulls if they are going to rebuild, but I don’t think they got full value for Caruso. It was a great deal for OKC because Giddey didn’t fit and they are shifting into win now mode. Caruso will help them now.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned about Caruso is that up until the last two years he seem to be pretty injury prone, and then he again seem injured going into the playoffs. He only has one year left on his current deal, is he going to get overpaid for his age 31+ seasons?
BE, I see the opposite, having Caruso out there makes it less necessary to spend a lot of money on a rim protector with limitations. But we’ll see soon enough!
Z-man, I was of your opinion until I realised that “asset hoarder/payroll is just a function of assets created by cap space” Presti switched Giddey for Caruso without shedding an asset. He can currently plug a small hole and pick up elite rebounding without shedding an asset. That should be a better and more balanced roster (as if they needed it, damn).
I also think that folks should hesitate a bit before coronating OKC as inevitable western conference champs. I expect that Memphis will be roaring back, Denver will rebound, Minnesota will learn from the Dallas series and upgrade, and of course, Dallas proved that they belong in the conversation. Even a sleeper team like the Dubs, Lakers, Suns, Kings could make noise.
BE, Giddey was in fact an asset, probably worth a lottery pick in this year’s draft. There comes a point where draft picks are not worth as much in trades as people think. It could very well be that Chicago actually preferred Giddey to draft picks, similar to how Toronto and Detroit seemed to prefer our young players to first rounders. OKC’s own picks will not be in the lottery any time soon, and everyone knows that, so their pick cache is not as glorious as it appears.
I wasn’t loving the idea of Ryan Dunn, but he might be good enough on the defensive end to help mitigate any loss of OG, should that occur.
CP3? Please no, not at this point.
Caleb Martin? Seems like a good idea to me.
That Chicago didn’t come out of this with any draft picks — even a couple of seconds, or a protected pick OKC has from another team — seems like poor asset management to me. Even if Giddey is the prize AK sought, OKC has way more picks than it can ever roster, and he should have been able to get his hands on one of them.
Not shocking if true. I thought there was a good chance Mitch was going to be moved. The question is for who and is it a deal including Bojan for an upgrade somewhere else. We’ll see if it’s true.
I think it’s a fair criticism to say that the Bulls should have also gotten a draft pick in the deal. There’s only one year left on Giddey’s contract and Caruso is the better player right now. Chicago is not a particularly well run team.
Here’s the full Jake Fischer column that mentions the iHart/Mitch stuff: https://sports.yahoo.com/with-bulls-roster-shakeup-underway-is-zach-lavine-the-next-piece-on-the-move-150136313.html
Related:
This is what always made more sense to me for OKC
I’m not sure what the point of trading Mitch would be as a stand alone deal. What are we going to get back that makes us better? It makes more sense trying to combine him Bojan and getting an upgrade somewhere. It’s a shame he got hurt again. That can’t be helping his trade value.
Moving Caruso for a young player is at least directionally correct and I’ve always been intrigued by John Griddy, but he might be caught in the liminal space where he’s not good enough to be a primary ball handler but also doesn’t have the skillset to be a deep playoffs worthy off-ball player.
At a minimum, I would’ve insisted on a real first from OKC. Were they really going to draw the line there given how perfectly Caruso fits with them? I doubt it.
There’s a new B/R mock draft that has us trading Mitch and #24 for #6 and Nance, but it’s not from Wasserman so I’m assuming it’s clickbait based on zero intel. Needless to say I would make that trade in a heartbeat even as a well-known Mitch-optimist, which is exactly why it will not be on the table.
I hate to say it, but with us approaching the aprons it makes sense to see if we can trade Mitch for a worthwhile asset of some kind and replace him with a draft pick (the class is reasonably deep with centers). It goes without saying this only applies if we’re confident iHart is coming back.
The rumored 5/200 for OG that circulated overnight makes sense to me. Escalating contracts starting at about $35m. Nobody would bat an eye at a 4/150 deal, and guaranteeing that fifth year probably puts them over the top of any possible offer. It’s fine.
I’m guessing part of the Mitch plan is drafting a C and bringing Achiuwa back.
The hope is that he learns how to shoot, but he’s dreadful at everything on offense except maybe rebounding. I’m not sure how you put Dunn on an NBA court during the playoffs unless you’re playing him at C, which begets further questions.
Who is John Griddy?
Dunn would be a really long term project. You couldn’t even put him on the court in the regular season in competetive games.
Yeah, love some Mitch but with the injury woes and ascension of iHart, it does make sense to move him. Even with the injury woes, his contract is short enough and cheap enough that teams might be willing to take a flyer on him, especially if we’re including Bojan and maybe a pick (god forbid). The question is what is the upgrade?
NO and Memphis seem like good spots for Mitch culture wise (close to home). He’s always been a country boy at heart.
It does sadden me, though. He was having his best defensive season EVER before he got hurt and if he’s gone and we do bring back iHart and OG, we will never get to see the healthy Mitch at C with OG defensive pairing that would wreck havoc.
Gotta love, though, that we found him in the 2nd round when we were absolutely dreadful and he’s been a part of the turn around. “Once a Knick, always a Knick” gets thrown around way too often but in his case, it would definitely be true. He’s grown up a lot here.
Not loving the Mitch trade talk. Really think it’s a mistake. Sure he’s injury-prone, but many centers are (many basketball players are). When he’s healthy though, he’s an actual game-changer with his rim protection, which is a rare thing and not something Precious or some rookie can emulate. Sure his free throws suck, but that’s why you have the two-headed center monster, just play iHart at the end of games.
I do also like Mitch, but I objectively think we’d be worse as a team without him unless he brought back real riches (and we’d still have a hole at center that iHart/Precious/rookie wouldn’t fill).
Edit: and while I type, Swift of all people counters. Still sticking to my guns, however.
I was hoping we would trade up for Johan Gridlock during his draft. I think it’s a good move for Chicago.
I think the upgrade non-superstar trade was always going to be Bojan+Mitch, but I have no clue who would be available that would also help the Knicks at that 30-35m/year price point.
It’s pretty simple, Strat. If OG has us by the balls and is squeezing them, we might have to ditch Mitch to afford OG.
Whoever Johan Gridlock is, I hope he’s wrecking havoc somewhere.
WreAking Havoc… in a thong. Being super gay.
I seem to be the outlier here, but 4/150 always struck me as the worst case scenario.
5/200 makes me want to puke. If fully guaranteed, this might be the riskiest NBA contract since we signed Amar’e.
Visiting my mother in law in New England and, while searching for Euro24, passed three separate channels showing the Celtics parade.
It was sickening. Although the “state your source” shirt is pretty funny
We’ve been connected to Filipowski and Holmes in the draft, and now with rumors of us entertaining Mitch trades a plausible reading of the tea leaves is that the front office has concluded we need to be able to put out some bona fide five-out lineups.
I’m hard pressed to disagree, with the important caveat that people way overestimate the number of true “stretch fives.” So if we’re trading Mitch with the idea that we can draft or sign one, we better be pretty damn sure he is in fact one.
A much simpler reading:
If OG starts at $37.5MM and we make our two picks, we have over $184MM committed to 12 players, so we have to dump salary.
There’s no way Charlotte does this. They already have Mark Williams, who was pretty damn good as a rookie. And who would we even take? Knecht?
I would guess Devin Carter if we’re in that range. But, yeah, can’t see Charlotte doing it.
Big if…
I’m pretty sure OG is getting his 200 mil. Then we’ll probably trade at least one of our 1sts for a 2nd and a future 2nd.
I guess Mitch (and to a lesser degree, Julius) and Bojan will be shopped along with picks for a needle-mover, but that move seems unlikely at this point bc all three of those guys are coming of injuries. The smart money is on a “run it back” with a few cheap rookies and aging vets added to the mix.
Besides the regular click bait stuff, wouldn’t it be prudent to at least wait for a trade to happen and evaluate what compensation was received before thinking it is a mistake.
The kvetching quotient here really would make an interesting sociology study….
The rumors are so funny at this point. “OG is unhappy because he didn’t have a larger role in the offense” and his alternative is to join a team with Embiid and Maxey. The writers (or those leaking these silly rumors) need better stories, come on now.
There remains one extremely notable star we can acquire without apron complications:
Lauri Markkanen still makes $18MM next year.
I love me some Julius Randle but an OG-Markkanen forward pairing would be something else. If we have to start dumping assets and burning first round picks to avoid the 2nd apron, I’d consider making the godfather offer to Utah first.
We don’t beat Philly without Mitch. We need a big who can check Embiid and Hartenstein isn’t it. I’m incredibly skeptical the Precious/OG formation works a full 4Qs let alone a whole series. Not saying it needs to be Mitch, but it needs to be somebody.
For that contract, keep Randle and Mitch. Throw Bojan, Deuce, and as many picks as you can at Ainge. We’ll be stuck, but I’m okay being stuck with that group.
I think trading Mitch would be a mistake. I still think when healthy and in shape he is more valuable than IHart and together they are the perfect two headed center rotation. Especially because both are a bit fragile.
If we got a star back sure but honestly I’d rather trade Randle than Mitch. Randle is about to get overpaid and his next contract will probably be an overpay especially as he gets into his 30s.
We need to get a center in the draft because of their injury-proneness and a 3rd center on a cost-controlled contract is exactly what we need. No one we can draft should be viewed as a replacement especially not this year or next.
Charlotte has the #6 pick, but Nance plays for New Orleans still, right? So who is this not-worth-the-time-to-even-ask trade rumor supposed to be with?
What if it’s for a player who gives you 80% of his production, but is only injured 20% of the time?
How do folks feel about Paul George for Mitch, Bojan, and picks? Windhorst was floating that…
I thought about that, EB. But I really don’t see how Brunson, Randle and Markkanen can coexist on defense.
Part of the appeal is if you trade Randle, Bojan, and picks for Markkanen, we’d get the full MLE to use this summer and the BAE.
Bleacher Report has a convoluted 3 team trade with Charlotte moving up to 3rd with Houston and NO and the NO #6 coming to the knicks along with Larry Nance for #24 and MR. We then take the U CONN shooting guard who can’t shoot from distance, but can do everything else, Stephon Castle.
Sounds like a fever dream click-bait delux…
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10125486-2024-nba-mock-draft-with-5-trades-in-round-1
+1
It’s also weird that OG would be “unhappy” with his role in the offense.
He played for less than a month before getting injured and then basically missed the rest of the regular season (except for a few games) until the playoffs.
Was thibs supposed to instantly make him a focal point of the offense with no real practice time for the team to implement that?
I call BS on some of these reports.
I would move heaven and earth for this guy, but his 18M is only for this year and then you are in the same spot as we are today with OG.
But we’d have our team set.
I hope it’s been clear that I don’t care if OG makes $50MM and we have a championship-caliber team. I care if paying him $50MM prevents us from becoming a championship-caliber team.
Trading for Markkanen solves that problem, so it wouldn’t matter what we pay them.
“We don’t beat Philly without Mitch. We need a big who can check Embiid and Hartenstein isn’t it. I’m incredibly skeptical the Precious/OG formation works a full 4Qs let alone a whole series. Not saying it needs to be Mitch, but it needs to be somebody.”
We *did* beat Philly without Mitch. He was already a bit injured going into the series, and then Embiid took him out completely with that leg grab from below.
“For that contract, keep Randle and Mitch. Throw Bojan, Deuce, and as many picks as you can at Ainge. We’ll be stuck, but I’m okay being stuck with that group.”
No Deuce? OK, then, we’d better get a backup point guard.
OG’s hankering for a larger role in the offense — which significantly predates his arrival in NYC — evinces a pretty acute lack of self-awareness.
Oh…….Johan Gridlock (whoever he is) is gay. Very cool.
Got it. Thanks, Clarence.
I fully expected this to be a video of Josh Hart grabbing offensive rebounds in traffic.
Recent mocks suggest Tyler Kolek isn’t going to be an option for us.
OG = Claw 2.0…
not exactly, not even close statistically – however, it’s easy to see OG developing his offenses skills to the point where he can efficiently score 20 + points a game…and still wreck opposing offenses…
Half baked idea….
Let’s say we make our pick at 24. At 25 there’s no one Leon likes and he’s about to punt. The offers suck. No one’s giving us a real future first.
Let’s just take Bronny. It would be worth it just to fuck with LeBron. But eventually he’s going to force whatever team he’s playing for to trade for him, right? Cool. Deal with us.
I think a Randle and picks trade for Markkanen would be great. That way we can waive Bojan, use the MLE, and not really care how much we pay OG and IHart.
I also think Markkanen and on his next contract will be much better than Randle on his next one. He’s just enough younger to fit better with Brunson and OG and helps with spacing while being about even on defense.
Bill Simmons lightly floated the Bronny arbitrage idea but I think there’s a way higher chance of it pissing off a whole slew of people we shouldn’t be pissing off than it doing anything good for us. If that scenario comes to pass we should simply pick the highest remaining player on my personal big board, IMHO.
You know where Markkaken would really fit? In OKC. And if he’s available, they can top the Knicks’ offer and still have plenty for the future.
Actually, thongs on almost anyone are a pretty horrific concept, in general. Not my thing; very cool if it is yours.
I think Markkanen is going to end up with us somehow, one way or another. Jury is out depending on who we would lose in that transaction.
I can’t imagine OKC is willing to max 4 guys.
Btw doesn’t the NBA have some rule about 5 year deals? My vague understanding is that if you have a 5 year deal, you have a special designation, and teams are only allowed to have 2 such players on their team.
😉 😀
No, under the new CBA you can have as many 5-year contracts as you want provided you’re compliant with all other cap rules. Even under the old one the limit was two Designated Player/super max extension contracts, which a 5-year OG contract wouldn’t be anyway.
That’s a relief.
I’m surprised there aren’t more. Hard to believe the league developed so much collective restraint.
You sound very much like Marvin Miller. Looking for a new job? 🙂
How would a Paul George trade even happen? He would opt into the last year of his contract and we would have to extend him at 50 mil per? I guess trading Mitch/Julius/Jericho/picks would work, but is he worth that plus the cap hit? PG at 50 mil, OG at 40 mil, and Brunson? Feels pretty risky.
IMO George is the best two way player and a good fit, but we’d be shortening our window given he’s 34. If we are hell bent on something like a two year widow to win it all and then retooling soon after, it would give us a good chance if everyone is healthy. It feels like a deal Pat Riley would do that would make some other people squeamish.
Here’s the quote from the realgm.com article:
““They’ve got a whole bevy of trades that they can make with their draft picks, plus they have tradable pieces on their roster,” said Windhorst. “Their front office has done a great job to do this, specifically Bojan Bogdanovich, who has a team option for around $20 million in his contract. They could pick that up and use it with the draft picks as a big trade piece. You could add another big piece there.”
Did the article really misspell “Bogdanovic”? Yuck. Now I can’t believe a word of it (not that I really want PG-13, anyway).
OGPG sounds nice
Sounds awful. But that may be just me. Your mileage may vary.
For the record, I’m lukewarm on the PG13 idea. He’s up there in years and injury is always a concern with him. But the idealized version of him, if it could be done without including any of IHart, OG, Brunson, and Julius makes our starting lineup pretty freaking awesome in theory, and having DDV, Hart, and fill in the blanks on the bench would be sufficient. But I am not jonesing for that at all…and it is definitely not a long-term solution.
PG turning down 50 million a year seems bonkers
You’re blessed
I mean, Bogey, Mitch, Sims, and a lot of picks for George works under the cap. And the healthy version of that starting lineup would be incredible. But how healthy would it be? And how painful will George’s new contract be within two seasons, or even one, of trading for him?
Paul George is so old and make so much money lol
I’m so with Jowles on this one.
Trying to decide if I like the statement more, or less, without the ‘s’.
I think without, as is.
Sorry, Doogie. Sometimes less is more. And wrong is right.
We’ll be unstoppable for the 4 games a season OG & PG play together
When I occasionally read prospect reviews for the upcoming draft, I seem to often read about centers or four/fives. Is this a draft with a lot more reasonable big men than usual?
now it’s an arms race to see who can get a tall guy to stop Wemby from averaging 38/18/8/8/5 as he single-handedly sweeps your 1 or 2 seed from the West playoffs for five consecutive years