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Leon Rose must decide what Knicks really are in loaded East
[sny.tv] – Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:07:43 GMT
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[Liberty Ballers] – Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:29:54 GMT
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[Posting and Toasting] – Tue, 18 Jun 2024 11:00:00 GMT
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[Pounding The Rock] – Tue, 18 Jun 2024 15:00:00 GMT
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[Sports Illustrated] – Tue, 18 Jun 2024 11:01:25 GMT
New York Knicks Should Make Another Raptors Trade
117 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.06.19)”
Please do!
The prediction was “Leon could get us to the mezzanine, not to the top.” Arguing about the strictest definition of a mezzanine is pedantry of the highest order because we all know where the top of the NBA is.
How about we stop using Buddhist metaphors immediately?
The argument that it was virtually impossible for Leon to build a legit contender via the hybrid method has been refuted. No amount of metaphorical spin will change that. Same with the rudderless mess stuff. Seems like most have moved on from there, thankfully.
This is not to say that the current roster, as it exists right now (assuming that iHart and OG return) is a “legit contender.” But there is a path to that status from this point. It is not a given by any means.
To frame it differently, if the very best executives and draft scouts took over this team right now, and was told by Dolan that under no circumstances would a total rebuild be tolerated, or even a one-year accidentank, what are the chances that they could get from this point to being a true contender, i.e. in the same conversation as Boston, Denver, OKC and Minny? Remote, reasonably likely, or very likely?
Unless one thinks they are remote, one should concede the larger point because it becomes a matter of what Leon does, rather than where the team stands. Since his detractors have already conceded that the team is much further along and better positioned than they expected, it seems lame and petty to modify that into “yeah, but he hasn’t gotten there yet, so I haven’t been proven wrong yet!”
In other words, while most critical part of Leon’s tenure is still in front of him, the possibilities are pretty open-ended. A great exec could do it. Is Leon that guy? We’ll see, but he has earned the benefit of the doubt. I don’t see how that can be disputed.
If anyone thinks the job is finished, i.e. that the team as is should be mentioned in the same breath as Boston or OKC or Minny or Denver, I would respectfully disagree. But there is a legit path.
The “mezzanine” concept is easy to figure out and easy to apply. People are resisting it for the sake of resisting it.
It has not been.
And this is why.
They really aren’t. The team’s going to start getting very expensive and aproned out. They don’t have much rookie-scale value. The “possibilities” were much more “open-ended” two/three years ago.
I’ll refrain from the insulting adjectives, but the flip side to this is “well, the only reason he hasn’t succeeded is that he hasn’t had enough time — just you wait!!!!” Can’t get much more unfalsifiable than that.
(See, e.g., “the most critical part of Leon’s tenure is still in front of him.” One suspects that for true believers that will always be the case.)
Bully for you. That’s not the mezzanine argument. Never was, never will be.
The mezzanine argument, plainly and clearly, is that Leon’s annual mismanagement of the draft is a fatal flaw that will prevent us from winning an NBA championship.
When you argue over the definition of mezzanine, you are shamelessly attempting to move the goal posts so you can run a narcissistic victory lap that you haven’t earned.
Until there’s confetti streaming in MSG, there’s no I-Told-You-So to be had in this particular argument.
So just retire the meme like Raven said. By the time you win it, we’ll all be drunk with glee.
And FWIW baked in to the mezzanine argument is actually the assumption that Leon could build a contender! That’s what the mezzanine was supposed to be!!
The whole idea was he could get us exactly where we are today, at which point having a pile of ashes instead of Jalen Johnson, or having a bag of dicks instead of Jalen Williams, would be what separates us from the top.
And frankly I gotta say that one’s looking pretty damn good right now. If anything, I should be the one running shameless victory laps.
Not at all. Strange tactics and the wrong cast to execute it lead to it. All in all, we were able to make the comeback and win the game, so that was good. But i hope they learn from this game, if we keep trying the same in the next games we’re setting ourselves for disappointment and an early exit.
Doogie, live life man. You seem averse to changes and everything that is not on the “script”, and what fun is that?
I have plenty of fun, cyber! 🙂
In my attempt to find some discussional ground that we haven’t endlessly trod already, I went looking at mock drafts this morning, and… it’s mostly the same names we’ve been seeing for weeks.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10125089-2024-nba-mock-draft-full-2-round-predictions-with-one-week-to-go
Wasserman, for instance, has us taking Ryan Dunn, DaRon Holmes II, and Adem Bona. I’m not an ESPN+ subscriber, so I don’t know who Givony slotted for us today, but he repeated the line that the league assumes we’re going to try to move one of the firsts. Question is whether we can actually find a taker for it. Given how in love everyone seems to be in next year’s draft, a future pick seems unlikely. Maybe we get a pick for player trade?
I like our situation, Rome wasn’t built in a day, you know?
There’s posters that seem to root for Leon to fail, let the man work. This offseason has what? Two days? And it looks like Leon has already failed in the eyes of some of you.
For now the goals is to re-sign OG and iHart, and after it we can chase a star, if the opportunity is there. If we only re-sign OG, i think the plan stays almost the same, we just have to grab a decent C to pair with Mitch. I don’t even want to think about not re-signing OG, that will be a huge setback and it won’t be easy to get back to the current situation quickly (see what i did here?).
I have plenty of fun, cyber! 🙂
so does cysticercosis. take it from fellow buddhist metaphor lover hesse: “it is possible to for one to never transgress a single law and still stink up the loge.”
Givony had us taking filipkowski…dunn…and mcCullar from kansas
He can get $40 million in multiple places, and he can get $40 million while playing with Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxey if he wants to. I agree he will definitely be returning to the Knicks, but the only reason I ever thought he was signing for less than $40 million was if he was another one of those guys who just inexplicably gives the Knicks a team-friendly deal, and, well, apparently he doesn’t plan on being one of those guys.
okay brian this leads to my biannual poll request:
do you (still) like the OG trade if the available information at the time gave the knicks no compelling reason to expect anything but very close to the max range of ~4/$185 (or 5/$245!)?
hard for me to guess how this would poll out. guessing maybe 2/3 yes.
Are you going to actually dispute going from a 21-45 team in 2020 to a 50-32 team 4 years later isn’t yeoman’s work? He took a shitfor team and turned it into a very good team in short order without mortgaging future picks or signing 33 year old vets on the clear down slope. Pretty handy work according to most folks.
But they didn’t win the championship, yada, yada….
Damn, Siakim is getting a lot of money. Good for him
Speaking of someone getting a lot of money — and, in this case, not having to work for it…
As I recall, the mezzanine argument was more about never being a contender unless you bottomed out and got great players with top draft picks. Therefore, since León is determined to be competitive as much as possible, the Knicks will never be true contenders. To still buy this argument you have to believe the Knicks are not real contenders now and have no chance of being so. I don’t think many people believe we have no chance, but the definition of the mezzanine seems to have changed over time.
if you’re monty williams it might hard to resist the urge to buy pistons floor seats like the way some serial killers like to show up at the crime scene
Getting 65 million dollars to do nothing would be so cool
“I have plenty of fun, cyber! 🙂
so does cysticercosis. take it from fellow buddhist metaphor lover hesse: “it is possible to for one to never transgress a single law and still stink up the loge.”.”
Wait. A tissue infection has fun? Color me confused. LOL
Is that the domino’s pizza guy that gave Monty that money or one of the Ford bozos…or maybe it is the little Ceasars guy…
That’s a shame about Monty. The team was starting to
play better for him at the end of the season.
Nothing like taking victory laps in an empty stadium!
I have no idea if any of what I hearing or reading from media is accurate or just a way of generating interest. It’s probably 50-50, but even I may not be cynical enough.
The market is set. Stop F’ning around. OG is a critical piece to becoming a championship contender and would be the same for any number of other teams.
In the words of the immortal Teddy “KGB”, “Pay him. Pay that man his money”.
YES.
There is a significant risk that Quickley and RJ may develop into very good players and we may be questioning that move a few years from now. But the Knicks were looking to operate on an accelerated path. RJ was not a good fit and OG was the perfect fit. The cost was Quickley, who the coach/management did not want to start next to Brunson and who was going to get too much money for a backup role.
I keep saying this. I understand that there are apron issues that are part of this, but if we want to contend, OG is the PERFECT player for us (and a lot of other teams). IMHO, he my not be done improving. It would not shock me if he comes back next year with an improved handle and is more of a solid 3rd option that gives is all that impactful defense.
When you have player like that, you pay him PERIOD and you worry about how to manage the apron issues later. We are not at the stage where we are many pieces a away and have to count every dollar. We are at the stage where we are going to fill out the bench with a draft pick and one of exceptions and use Bojan + picks + another contract to upgrade a position THIS YEAR (either now or at the deadline). Then we are done. That’s the team that will compete for title for years. We should also have a few picks left where we can hope to get lucky late in the 1st round like some other teams. Pay him, move on and stop worrying about salary at this stage.
OG is not as good as Siakam, who was the best player on a team that reached the Eastern conf finals, and the 2nd best on a team that won it all behind Kawhi. He’d probably get between 35-40M a year.
A new (presumably) $40+ mil contract somewhat changes the math. I think if OG was a pillar of health, I would unequivocally still like the trade. But the injury concerns are real (and why we should draft Dunn and teach him to shoot ASAP). In short, for me, it’s less about missing RJ and IQ and more about getting capped out from a guy on the IR and then having to give heavy minutes to scrubs.
James Edwards III put Johnny Bryant on the list of potential candidates to replace Monty, but there’s not a direct connection to the team/FO in the way there are with a lot of Edwards’ other selections.
How would we feel about filipowski? Too bad on defense?
What is a player worth when your team is 30-29 when he doesn’t play for you and 20-3 when he does?
My argument against the hybrid method was this: it can work in the hands of somebody like Pat Riley, who is so good at player evaluation that he consistently manages to come out with surplus value in free agent deals. By nature it’s tough to beat the market and consistently find that surplus value.
Leon actually did that! He was able to find good value repeatedly in free agency. He didn’t nail every signing but did well enough to build a good team. Considering his background as an agent, I’m surprised he has managed to do this, but I tip my cap. He even found that rarest of birds, the superstar player, via this method.
We now have more high class problems than we did before, as it seems that we are quite good but relatively near our ceiling, and probably need to acquire at least one more very significant piece to truly contend. And that is not going to be easy. We have some future assets but most are of the fugazy variety. We traded out of a couple drafts ostensibly to hoard picks for a consolidation trade, but it doesn’t really look like a consolidation trade for a major star is in the cards. The asset pile might not be big enough.
Or maybe it would be. We still own all of our picks plus the fugazy picks. Maybe that gets something done. (insert shrug emoticon)
He looks like a total zero on offense to me, but it still may be a good idea, especially if we upgrade the SG position with a more diverse scoring threat than DDV. If we have Brunson, Randle and player “X” (Ingram?) we’d have enough scoring to get through an OG injury period even with I-Hart and Dunn. Plus we’d still have J-Hart to play in that role until Dunn is ready.
I would guess that besides being a great promoter, elite agents must understand the marketplace and player value. The ability to evaluate players, their value and their relative place in the hierarchy is sort of an essential quality to be a strong agent.
Pat Riley has overpaid plenty of times (as has Morey).
What Riley has done fabulously well is finding good value in the draft (when he doesn’t trade his picks) and among undrafted players. He turns some of them into very good players that are in great shape and fit the team’s culture. He’s also not wed to picks. He considers them an asset that can be used in a trade to accelerate his almost constant retooling. Where he screwed up last was in making moves to clear the way for Damon but then he didn’t get him. That set him back a year.
Doogie, man, you spend half your time here asking other people to post stuff and the other half telling people to stop posting stuff. What is it you want from us?
I’m very conflicted on Filipowski. He’s actually a really good, active defender for a big: can stay in front of guards, closes out quickly, good off the ball… he’s just not a great rim protector. He’s not terrible because he’s a 7-footer, but he has shorter arms and isn’t a great jumper.
I actually think he might be a great fit for what we need, which is a guy who can backup both the C and PF, can shoot a little, and can handle the ball and pass. I just know that Thibs demands rim protection from his bigs. Maybe if they see him as more of a backup PF who can play center in a pinch, it would work? I’m also just not sure he’s good enough at any one thing… jack of all trades master of none maybe… but he’s also young and should improve in a lot of areas. At #24, I wouldn’t be against drafting him.
🙂
I wouldn’t have thought Filipowski would be there by the 20s, let alone #24, and yet he keeps getting mocked around this point in the draft. Weird.
I am not sure Filipowski would be good right away but if he can play passable defense he looks like a good bet to develop as an offensive big, probably worth a shot in the 20s-maybe he could backup randle if we manage to hold on to IHart, or give us a different look at center if we lose him.
“…probably need to acquire at least one more very significant piece to truly contend.”
I want to touch on something I mentioned in yesterday’s post. I am unequivocally of the position that if healthy and everyone comes back, we are already ‘contenders.’ Two reasons, one a pedantic definition, the other about this team.
First the latter — we went to the seventh game of the second round, one win from the conference finals, with a team that resembled the patients from a WW2 military hospital in Normandy. That means we were one of the four best teams in the East while operating on one leg and one arm. I don’t think we give them enough credit for this.
We come back healthy and whole (neither a guarantee of course, but that’s true of all teams), we are hugely dangerous contenders.
Second, the former — a ‘contender’ is one who is legitimately attempting to win a championship. If you want to be really pedantic, you can argue that about 25 NBA teams are doing that. That gets us into the definition of ‘legitimately.’ I would argue that given that most of our weapons were missing and we were STILL in the mix, if Julius and Mitch (and Jalen, and OG) come back healthy and OG and iHart come back, we are sure as shit legit.
Not to say that adding one more significant piece wouldn’t make us better (although one can imagine examples of how it might make us worse, given how cleverly this team is currently assembled).
I’m on what you would consider the mezzanine of an international delta flight. Am I a bad person? I farted (my partner is sleeping blissfully) knowing that no blame can be assigned as the there are nine people all sitting within a 7×7 square. BUT…but!… if were to have stood up and moved from my middle seat in a row of four it would have required me to make my partner suffer waking. It’s madness further back. Madness.
Two other thoughts, and then I’ll leave everyone alone to enjoy Juneteenth.
On that last point — the esteemed Donovan Mitchell would have been a no-brainer go-get-him back in the days of drawers-full of random power forwards and Kevin Knox. With the team as currently built, however, a second short, ball-dominant scorer with questionable defensive chops is a real question mark from a fit perspective. I could see it work, but my current thinking is pass.
Also, I don’t think this team gets enough credit for being the second coming of the Grit-and-Grind Grizzlies (but I would argue with more talent). Yeah our defense sucked there at the end, but that was against the otherworldly Pacers and with two of our biggest defensive weapons out, OG and “He’s a DPOY candidate” Mitch (remember those days, earlier this past season?).
And with that, Happy Juneteenth All!
A portuguese playing basketball in NY, and it’s not Queta. 😛
https://nypost.com/2024/06/19/sports/rick-pitino-lands-ruben-prey-to-complete-st-johns-roster/
Happy Juneteenth!
Happy Juneteenth!
I’m not the biggest Ingram fan. IMO, he’s good but not special in any way. But it’s very likely he’s available and the Knicks will at least consider him.
He can shoot, score in variety of ways, switch several positions defensively and will put more size and length on the court.
Depending on his character, there are worse ideas than trading for Ingram.
It looks like it can be done with Bojan and Mitchell Robinson. That would send Mitch back to New Orleans where he’s spent a lot of time and was happy. It would give New Orleans a backup C or replacement for Valančiūnas depending on how that all works out. We could keep Precious as our backup C.
The question is how many picks will it take, will the fit be right and will Brunson, Ingram, OG, Randle and I-Hart be enough to be serious competition for a title with J-Hart, DDV, Precious, Deuce, maybe Burks and whoever else off the bench?
I like the idea of Mikal Bridges better, but if the Net are hell bent on continuing to build with him instead of starting over he may be impossible to get unless he starts making noise that he wants out.
Just finished listening to this week’s two-part Macri/Cohen podcast. Cohen argued that, even in a circumstance where the Nets were willing to deal with us, Mikal isn’t so much better than DDV overall — and isn’t quite as good a shooter — that it would be worth all the assets it would take to get him and move Donte to the bench. Given the Mikal love-fest around here, am I correct in assuming some/all of you disagree with that take?
You recall incorrectly. It was about incinerating draft picks. You can get a team to the mezzanine, but you’re never going to get to the top if you keep punting draft picks in shitty draft day trades.
another endless day on mezzanineblogger
with Ingram, could he plausibly play guard for us? If not then he’s coming off the bench, and while I think he’d be an awesome 6th man I am not sure Ingram and his agent want that for him
Ahhhhhhh…….shaddup.
Who gives a shit whether we’re in the mezzanine or not in the mezzanine or if mezzanine means middle or the exact definition of the mezzanine or if someone’s argument once upon a time was right or wrong? No one here is right all the time and the nonstop airing of grievances makes the board a fucking slog on most days. Could we talk about the Knicks and basketball instead of these fucking meta-narratives?
-That the proponents of the “mezzanine” metaphor can’t seem to agree on what it actually means seems like a fatal flaw to its utility.
-Leon Rose has done a very good job since taking over the Knicks, but winning a championship in the NBA requires even more than that. He has given himself room to improve on that very good job, but, as always, it’ll be difficult.
-If Filipowski is available with one of our picks I’d be thrilled to take him without overthinking it. I’m not even super high on him, but it also wouldn’t shock me if he became the best big in the class. He may yet be a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none washout, but his upside is being one of the very, very few bona fide stretch 5s in the NBA i.e. someone who can do the basic things you expect a center to do while also being a threat from 3 defenses have to respect.
-I’m a yes on ptmilo’s question for a simple reason: it was the premise I was already operating under when I initially approved of the trade.
Begley on Macri’s new podcast:
Whole thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgcyiU57Fzk
Yes, Ingram mostly plays the 2, but I don’t like that trade for many reasons:
– Ingram is going to want a max contract soon, which is way more than he’s worth production-wise (he currently makes 36 mil per and would be wanting upwards of 50 mil!)
– we would be sending out two rotation players (Mitch and Bojan) for one, and depth is already an issue.
– Ingram isn’t really an upgrade from DDV.
It doesn’t really make us better, just taller in the backcourt.
“Who gives a shit whether… someone’s argument once upon a time was right or wrong?”
100%. We’ve got a draft, a potential UFA overpay, a potential UFA loss,a shitload of post surgery evaluations, Rokas summer league, and trade targets to talk about.
it was the premise I was already operating under when I initially approved of the trade.
at the time i think i actually believed the idea that he may have quietly agreed to a mid 30s starting point. in retrospect i may have been self soothing from the loss of iq.
Depending on his character, there are worse ideas than trading for Ingram.
not many.
So here’s my thinking:
I am bracing for someone to make Hartenstein an offer he can’t refuse. So I’m thinking we make all 3 picks in the draft for high floor players- at least 2. I would not mind Filipowski and Terrence Shannon to boost bench scoring, and possibly trading up from 38 to get Dunn if Thibs really loves him. Now if the team decides to keep Bogdanovic, that changes things. Hell, even if Hartenstein stays, I might still draft Filipowski if he’s there to groom him behind Hartenstein, Mitch, and Randle. Our starting 5 is set, but we need to give Thibs scoring options on the bench. And bring Rokas over too. Inexpensive way to fill roles behind your established rotation and make room for OG and Brunson’s deals..and Randle if he’s the same player he was last season once he got rolling. Now..I’d much rather have Klintman over Dunn, but Thibs deserves to get a player he asks for- I just don’t think 24 or 25 are the right spots for him. Outside of that, I’m kinda hoping Edey falls to us, and then we draft another shooter or sign McBuckets
Mogbo would be a decent Dunn alternative. He can’t shoot either, but he can score a bit and he can handle the ball
Ingram seems like a guy who’s just good enough to help a bad/mediocre team get to respectability but doesn’t improve an already good team. I’m also not sure what role he would play here assuming we re-sign OG. Unless we’re trading Randle he’d have to come off the bench and my understanding is that one of the reasons NOP isn’t planning on keeping him is because he’s unhappy deferring to Zion. Also, he’s always hurt.
I’m sorry but I find the idea that NBA teams are lining up to pay OG Anunoby $40MM a little preposterous. Let him test the market.
Philadelphia clearly wants Paul George or Jimmy Butler. OG is a very long way down.
Katz article on the market for iHart: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5575723/2024/06/19/knicks-isaiah-hartenstein-free-agency/
Reading between the lines, it seems to be saying the same thing I’ve heard from a few sports journo types: if the Knicks give iHart the full Early Bird amount, he probably takes it. And definitely if OKC and the others all try to offer shorter deals with higher AAV.
Went to see if Mrs I Hart Sr was in her place of work today to get the low down. Haven’t seen her in a while. No luck.
There’s been reports for years that teams covet him and considering he’s a DPOY-caliber player who can hit 3s I’m not surprised if he got $40M on the open market. Also, you have to factor in the expected increase in the cap that’ll be happening. Most sites I’ve found are expecting the cap to rise by something like $15M/year starting in 2026 because of the new TV deal.
okay, so OG wants his money (near max, around 42 million a year i believe)…
it’s reading like our home town deal means he’ll sign for about 39.999whatever million…
can not blame the man, gotta wonder how it will affect jalen’s and julius’s future negotiations…it won’t help any is my thought…
OG is probably the best available FA under 30, he fits just about any team, and he’s a big, 2 way wing in a league that prioritizes that sort of player
I’d play chicken with him.
Leon isn’t the lowball kind of guy. I trust he made OG a fair offer. Presumably they discussed this at the trade deadline, but OG now wants more.
So let him test the market. GMs look at games played, especially with role players. I’d bet no one comes close to 4 years, 120MM.
Once you start with the “let him test the market stuff” and he goes for the interviews and gets courted then you are playing a risky game that something in the sales pitch resonates with him and he decides to move on.
I believe that the last time the Knicks told a FA to test the market and get back to them, it was a guy named Jeremy Lin. Seems like a lot of folks here were not happy with how that turned out.
To be clear, OG is the one who said he’s testing the market.
I would make him a really good above-market offer first (around $35MM) to keep him from doing that, and I trust that’s what Leon did.
But I’m sorry but I just can’t believe the same league that didn’t want to give Jalen Brunson $20MM is tripping over themselves to give OG $40MM.
Jon Hollinger wrote that he expected OG to get a bit below max, something like 140-150 for 4.
It’s the same league that paid Tobias Harris $40M
hahahahahahhahaha
“Mezzanine” is the title of Massive Attack’s third album and one of my favorite of all time. So I’ve made peace with the term. We’re in the mezzanine!
So is every other team not named Boston.
I think everyone across the basketball world thought that Dallas was stupid for not locking up Brunson when they had multiple chances to do so. But also, OG is more of a known quantity than Brunson was.
It’s nearly impossible to add young, really good players in unrestricted free agency. Teams will absolutely leap at the opportunity to do it. If we get too cute with OG he’ll be enjoying the silver lining of how much further $240M goes in Detroit.
If the Knicks are not offering anything close to a max deal to OG, they are in effect telling him to test the market. That’s not to say they should do that, only that, as TNFH pointed out, they shouldn’t get too cute and piss him off. It’s possible that he might just sign a deal without giving the Knicks a chance to counter, or even take an equal or lesser offer to a more desirable situation…in other words, the Knicks have absolutely zero leverage here.
At the end of the day, I think Leon is smart enough to read the tea leaves and not lose him by getting cute, especially as OG is CAA and tied to Leon’s son. 4/$150M sounds about right, give or take.
“…he’ll be enjoying the silver lining of how much further $240M goes in Detroit.”
You meant $140M I hope…
Alan, I’m a Mikal stan and yet I agree with you regarding a comparison with Divo. My eye says Divo’s a bit better shooter now, but Mikal is more of a playmaker (is better at making his shot), but a) I could just be wrong, and b) Divo is starting to do that a bit more himself.
I ran the usual bref comparison, and they’re actually surprisingly similar, with big differences being Mikal being .480 vs. 428 in FG% (which surprised me) and .846 vs. .771 on FT% (also a bit surprising). Divo wins on 3P% .376 vs. .375, which is surprisingly close. Checked chucking, Divo wins by not much, 8.7 3PA per game vs. 7.2 for Mikal. BPM is Divo at 1.0 vs. Mikal at 0.9. DBPM is 1.0 for Divo and 0.4 for Mikal (he kind of sucked at that since hitting Brooklyn, both years negative, it was pretty decent before that).
Mikal has a nicer smile, and is two inches taller. And the East is big, man.
I am willing to test this.
Pascal Siakim was expecting 5/245 and just settled for 4/189. I know it only takes one team, but I don’t see anyone mistaking OG Anunoby for Jimmy Butler this summer.
That was almost the same situation, too. They traded for a guy, irrationally feared someone would offer him a max, paid him stupid money, regretted it ever since.
Let’s not be that team.
FWIW this is what I’m assuming Leon offered him. I’m just guessing, but I don’t think Leon lowballed him.
What is the most that an opposing team could have offered Siakam?
What is the most that an opposing team could have offered Siakam?
4/182
Well, that kind of blows a hole in the Siakam to OG comparison, being that Siakam “settled for” $7M more than he could have gotten anywhere else!
There are two plausible scenarios here:
A. The Knicks offered OG something in the neighborhood of 4/115, which is a lowball offer, and OG is testing the market to get into the 4/140 range most insiders expect he will command.
B. The Knicks offered him the 4/140 most insiders expect he will command, and OG is hitting the market to leverage an extra $40mm that he likely does not deserve (deserve having nothing to do with it, of course).
B seems more likely to me because A is the most extreme high risk/low reward scenario I can fathom, and it just doesn’t seem like Leon’s game. But I am just guessing. Could be either one.
This is why the phrase “fuck around and find out” exists. Over the years, there have been rumors connecting OG to basically every team in the NBA looking to get better. This is a game of chicken we would lose.
I’m not saying Leon should just throw 5/$245M on the table and be done with it, but I am saying if I woke up to a notification that OG signed for that I’d feel more relief than anything else.
All that said, Leon has mostly navigated negotiations well and until something bad happens I’ll trust him to continue to do so. I’m not going to get mad about how badly we bungled the OG free agency unless we bungle the OG free agency.
People have to be whispering in OG’s ear that his agent is conflicted (or OG’s figured that out on his own), and part of this has to be that he’s going to make sure that conflict doesn’t cost him money. When you do that, it’s easy to misjudge or overshoot.(*) Puts an unfortunate variable into the negotiations.
(*) And the son, in order to prove to the world and future clients that he’s not conflicted, also has an incentive to misjudge.
I am fairly certain there are more than two plausible scenarios. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,/Than are dreamt of in your philosophy”
The other Knicksy variable at play is of course Dolan. OG really isn’t a “star” in Dolan’s eyes and as with Lin, one has to wonder how Dolan will react to a non-“star” not being “thankful” with the Knicks’ “generous” offer and instead going out and shopping around.
Tons of teams are willing to pay OG 40 million a year BUT Leon overpaid in the trade to get him.
A bit late for Metsblogger, but since May 31 the Mets now lead the majors in wins (12) and OPS (.863), and lead the NL in batting average (.298).
Back to our regularly programmed mezzanine…
Hopefully the Knicks have some McDonald’s mascots scheduled to visit the garden next season
“Hopefully the Knicks have some McDonald’s mascots scheduled to visit the garden next season”
Why would they need or want that?
The Mets are 7-0 since Grimace threw out the first pitch at a Mets game for some reason
Gotcha. They’re hanging on by a thread tonight. Heaney certainly isn’t doing normal Heaney things (9 strikeouts).
just ordered the pooch some weed chews…now I don’t have to blow smoke in her face…
there’s a lot of cool stuff out there today if your a dog…
This baffles me a bit. I just don’t see Clingan ever becoming anything super special, and he’ll probably be a foul machine early on.
Clingan projects pretty well and it’s a draft without real high end dudes, so getting a guy who you can feel pretty sure will be a good player is attractive
Doesn’t seem like the right thing to do to a dog. There is no consent there!
And after all those rumors, the Raptors jumped — and I mean jumped! — on the extremely tepid offer of RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickly with nearly two months to go before the trade deadline.
His ceiling is low and his availability record is pathetic. He had three major stints on the injury list after we traded for him.
You don’t think other teams noticed that? I do.
This isn’t a Leon thing. I trust Leon did his homework before the trade and is making a fair offer in line with what he and OG’s agents discussed.
This is an OG thing. I loved the guy when he played, but his shitty availability record plus this bullshit is really making me wonder if he actually fits the culture here. He’s giving major prima donna vibes.
July 1st is the day of the year where all reasonable projections for contract offers are annually obliterated, leaving right-minded dudes like Hubert saying things like “Allen Crabb got what?!?”.
As for the binary of possible scenarios, all I can say is hahahaha. We’ve all been around long enough to see the pragmatic, rational-choice, market-based American economic system be dictated by emotion, pettiness, and clinical insanity. There are scenarios at play that we can’t even dream up. James Dolan is still signing the checks!
We just had a trade market for OG, though, and we won it with an extremely tepid offer.
It’s not easy to square the idea that “tons of teams want to pay OG $40MM” with the fact that not one single team beat the fairly low price we paid to acquire him.
I came here to apologize to Thibs for ever criticizing him, he’s Red Auerbach compared to the fucking idiot the Yankees continue to employ as manager.
And the Grimace Wonderfulness is over, too.
Ever hear of catnip, Doogie?
As for dogs, they eat random feces they find in the dirt. I think they can handle a little grass.
You want to discuss the medication of dogs in the age of consent, but farting and Buddhism are out of the question? C’mon, man.
I didn’t say that dogs couldn’t *handle* the weed. I said that they weren’t *consenting* to it. They *are* consenting to eating feces because they are choosing to eat it of their own free will, and no one is making them do so. If you can’t see the difference between the two things, then I really don’t know what to tell you. And I don’t dig the concept behind catnip, either. 🙂
I think you’ll know quickly if the dog likes the edible.