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2023-24 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bucks: (Christmas Opener)

Maybe a thing?

150 replies on “2023-24 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bucks: (Christmas Opener)”

julius randle, single handedly sinking this game for us…

bobby portis has julius “selling his house”…

i have no idea what that means, i just hear the kids say something like that when they’re talking smack to their friends when they’re playing video games online…

RJ with the brain fart…get cleanly stripped then foul the guy who stripped you out of frustration…

We should bench RJ for the rest of the game before he blows what was a good first quarter with a few bad ones.

Instead of Randle giveth and Randle taketh away, so far today we are getting Randle taketh away and Randle taketh away.

randle does a half decent job on giannis but when giannis screens he is so bad as the big in the pnr

This feels like the 4th game in a 7 game series where you’re down 3-0 and suddenly you start to get all the breaks.

Those spots where an ESPN “journalist” coax-encourages some poor sucker in their ESPNBet bets are quite icky.

Randle is 5-12 but he took 2 shots at the end of the clock so he really isn’t shooting that badly. His physicality on D has been a factor. Has one really bad stretch with turnovers, forced shots, and fouls.

Nice reaction after last game, great half for JB and RJ.

The Bucks are 6-22 from three (after shooting 50% or better in the first 3 games), there are two possible explanations:

1. We changed our defensive schemes

or

2. ISM is back.

Make your choice folks!

Plus, it’s incredible what 2 nights of New York’s nightlife can do to a small market team… 😉

we struggled a bit against that 2-1-2 zone with giannis in the middle outside of the one divo to ihart drop pass, think bucks go back to that in h2

We’re so much better than these guys when RJ Barrett has twice as many points as Giannis.

Howdy E, I hope yourself and the family are all well today.

Man, the progression of fantasy sports and subsequent betting is FASCINATING.

Rivals: guns/drugs/alcohol/sex as incredibly profitable commercial enterprises.

Shoot, with sports betting – you don’t even need a whole “enterprise”.

Just unbelievable. Definitely not preaching against it.

Vices are truly some of the cornerstones of civilization. I’ll stand by that statement.

There are more than enough varied vices for everyone to have an opportunity to make their life a living hell. Gambling is simply one of many vices.

What fascinates me though is “our” (human folks) interaction/connection to those vices.

Edit: ha, just noticed good ‘ol doogie has got me trying to do a better job explaining myself.

I understand I can be a bit vague and incoherent at times 😊

We’re so much better than these guys when RJ Barrett has twice as many points as Giannis.

We’re so much better when RJ plays like a real NBA starter. So imagine if we had a two-way plus player in that slot.

There are more than enough varied vices for everyone to have an opportunity to make their life a living hell. Gambling is simply one of many vices.

That all these vices exist is probably inevitable.

That some people will get themselves into trouble because of them is probably inevitable.

I object to a government and society that encourages them, especially lotteries because the “take” is enormous and the people most likely to play lotteries and scratch offs are those that can least afford to throw away money.

I feel like at any second I’m gonna look up at the TV screen and see we’re either tied or behind.

Let’s hope the taj bandaid works.

Trying to contain dame is probably the biggest thing right now.

Howdy E, I hope yourself and the family are all well today.

Thanks, geo — same to you.

Yeah, I’m happy I’ve never needed to bet to get my endorphin rush from sports …. Could be dangerous.

I can barely look at a redbull or coffee these days without getting nervous.

I’m paranoid and pretty risk adverse though these days – one of the better side effects of aging and bad nerves 🙃

Yep, 2 keys to the game are julius’ and donte’s defense.

Oh yeah, endorphins are from:
– laughing
– working out
– listening to music
– art stuff

science, it’s your friend.

I’m paranoid and pretty risk adverse though these days – one of the better side effects of aging and bad nerves 🙃

I’ve been trying something crazy called “not drinking”. It’s like life but you’re sober, healthier, and happier.

Funniest thing I’ve noticed… when I’m out, I never actually want to have a drink, I just want to go home.

That’s exactly the end of the quarter we needed, although finishing that last basket would have been nice!

Awesome to still be up 11 after 3 quarters but how the fuck did they mess up that fast break at the end????

Hart is a one-man break. Every game, it amazes me. Scouting report has to mention it, but it’s uncanny how he can’t be stopped.

Unbelievable the ref swallowed his whistle on IQ’s layup was getting ready to call a foul but didn’t such bullshit.

Giannis looks like he’s ready to put the team on his back to try to get back in it. We have to put them away NOW.

I know he might be too expensive to keep but I hope the Knicks find a way to hold on to iHart next season.

Why is RJ in for IQ?????

Thibs has a mental health issue that translates into both extra wins and dumbass decisions?

We’ve gotta artificially deflate IQs open market value because we screwed up the extension

I assume Thibs wanted more size so going with Hart and RJ on the wings but they still can’t get a fucking defensive rebound.

Like I said after the 12/23 game, it’s really really hard to beat a team twice in a row

But that was an excellent performance overall

Giannis and Dame both get 32, and Knicks win. Go figure.

I’ll take it!

I think I just saw E fall out of his mezzanine seat…

I know he might be too expensive to keep but I hope the Knicks find a way to hold on to iHart next season.

Dolan has deep pockets and aside from the fact that he’s very good, we can’t risk being back in this same position when/if we actually have a serious contender given Mitch’s injury history. If we make that one significant upgrade, we can’t screw around with Mitch going down blowing up a season. We NEED a very good backup for him.

Nice win. The full spectrum RJ Barrett experience. I’ll take it.

Merry Christmas KBers!!!

How did Leon Rose and his mid team with 0 stars on it beat the Great bucks

Sad day for the haters

I just realized Brunson still has is right hand/wrist taped. I wonder what’s going on there.

So the question is really: is Jalen Brunson a 1a player that you can build a championship contender around? If so you build around the margins. If not you don’t. Certainly a fair debate.

Now starting on Wednesday Knicks play 3 games in 4 days at OKC, Orlando and Indiana…

Best game of the year and a nice Christmas gift.

Super Brunson and a steady supporting cast (IQ, the Hart Foudation), Barrett with a nice first half, Randle quiet but not harmful, Taj with a couple of defensive masterpieces on Giannis.

Taj has more left in the tank than I expected given he had no camp and hasn’t even been playing this season to keep in game shape.

Bucks play no defense. They will have to outscore teams to win, which they can do during the regular season but come playoff time might not get it done. This game and the first game against them are more in line with what I thought the Knicks matched up against them. Sucks when you can’t shoot above 50 percent on like 40 threes huh Bucks?

So the question is really: is Jalen Brunson a 1a player that you can build a championship contender around? If so you build around the margins. If not you don’t. Certainly a fair debate.

If by 1a you mean a player that will score efficiently on high usage, that can get a bucket and close out a game even though the defense knows he’s getting it, and that will make consistent good decisions under pressure, the answer is YES. There are better players than him at that and/or that also combine it with defense, but if we had another player like Brunson at the wing, we’d have enough to contend. IMO Randle is not that player and RJ certainly is not that player.

Now starting on Wednesday Knicks play 3 games in 4 days at OKC, Orlando and Indiana…

I’d not be surprised if we win all three or lose all three (home or road doesn’t make a great difference for us), I’d be happy if we go 2-1.

i do worry that if the bucks bigs were a few inches taller they might have held jalen under 35 today

‘Quick with 20 points in 22 minutes. Is that good?’

No. He should have played 30.

I love wins like this for more than just the win. It gives everyone that hates the way Leon is building the team or that thinks we are in some permanent hell, purgatory or mezzanine a chance to take a deep breath and see that we aren’t that far away from contention against the best teams in the NBA. We recently beat the Suns, Lakers, and Bucks.

There is obviously a difference between being in position to add the two way wing player we need to get us to the next level and actually landing him, but it’s just as hard to draft and develop those guys. Nothing is instant.

There’s no reason to panic on the nights we get our asses kicked.

You panic when you clearly don’t have enough yet, don’t have any way to add what you need, and the age window is closing.

We have the assets to add what we need and we have time to add it. We just can’t afford a major error when we finally pull the trigger.

Best part about this game it was a fairly easy win for the Knicks. They only won by 7 but lead by 16 in the 4th quarter and basically lead by double digits for majority of the final 3 quarters.

just finishing the game now – that charge by RJ, with isaiah standing open right next to him was amazing…

amazing…

saw jalen wave off julius going down the end of the game, that’s a very good sign…

I was very worried when iHart picked up that 4th foul with over 10 minutes left in the 3rd Q. Yet we pretty much held them off until Randle jacked up an ill-advised 3 and PC drilled a wide-open transition 3 that cut our lead to 4 with 5:28 left in the third. At that point the Bucks threw everything but the kitchen sink at us and we just coolly responded every time, especially Josh Hart. Then that run at the end of the 3rd happened.

Credit to Taj for holding down the fort during that critical stretch. And credit to IHart for not picking up any more fouls in the last 14 minutes.

The Knicks are not winning a championship this season, but doesn’t Brunson have to be in the MVP conversation?

My criteria is- where would the team be without that player? Obviously, the Nuggets without Jokic and the Sixers without Embiid would struggle, but I can’t imagine winning many close games without Brunson to hit the big time stabilizing hoops.

The man is just a flat out stud.

God bless us, everyone!

It’s a Christmas miracle!

Yipeekiwa muthafuckas!!!

I still maintain the general idea that Brunson is not a surefire 1A guy for all the reasons we have already discussed extensively, but it’s games like this and the Phoenix one where he keeps surprising me and showing he has an extra gear, that when he reaches this level he performs like a true 1A.

In the end I don’t care much if he can be the best guy on a top tier contender because he’s just so fun to watch and to root for, so I’m just happy to be along for the ride. He’s made a career of proving people wrong and continuing to grind and improve, and I’m just happy he’s a Knick.

I’m confused by the 1A definition.

Isn’t it supposed to be a 1, 2 or 3? So we’re debating if he’s a 1 or a 2 and people think he’s in between?

Dame is a better version of Brunson and I don’t think he’s quite in the top tier. If he’s your best player you’d need Celtics-type depth to win a championship, if then. Brunson’s a really good 2nd guy but I don’t think he’s a leading man on a championship team.

Brunson has a higher BPM/VORP than Lillard this year so far…

Since boasting is a big part of what we do around here, I’d like to point out that I said a few weeks ago our best path to real contention probably would be treating Brunson as our 1A, since I think he still has room to grow his game.

Building properly around him should be much easier than trading for Giannis or some other team’s star and less risky than trying to draft a star at this point. That likely means trading RJ and putting a 3&D player in his spot — or something similar — before the deadline if at all possible.

This Brunson season gives me 2012 – 2013 Melo vibes. Certainly not the most productive player in the NBA, but deserves to be in the MVP conversation (I.e.: obviously not MVP, but maybe on the short or longlist…) given where we’d be without him (though it’s not as if Denver or Philly would be terribly imposing without Jokic or Embiid…)

As far as whether he’s a “1A”: unclear. Again it feels like Melo to me where he can put together a complete offensive game against elite defense, but is maybe a touch below the truly tip-top offensive players like Steph, Luka, Jokic, Embiid, Lebron, etc. and as such is better suited to a second-man role. On the other hand, his bag is truly impressive, and that has some serious playoff equity come crunch time.

If he keeps dropping 30+ against teams destined for the 2nd round of the playoffs and beyond, I’ll update my conclusion accordingly.

I’d go as far as saying Brunson can be the leading shot taker on a contender. His volume and efficiency numbers are right there with the household names, and we all know it ain’t because he’s getting any easy looks.

As far as being the “best player,” that would still likely have to be more of a two-way guy who is almost as good offensively. If, for example, Brunson and Paul George were on the same team, Brunson would likely take a few more shots (and would deserve to on the merits), but George would be regarded as the “best player.”

In any event, it sure is nice to even be able to have this conversation about a guy on the Knicks. He’s the best Knick I’ve ever had the pleasure of rooting for IMO (sorry to the Melo hive), and also the most fun to watch cook.

Get him the help he deserves!

To legitimately be in the MVP hunt, you have to either be widely perceived as one of the top-5 players in the NBA, or have a game so gaudy and flashy that it fools voters into thinking that you are better than you really are. I don’t think Brunson will ever have the street cred to outshine other stars, even if he was statistically deserving.

And statistically, he’s just not anywhere near being in the running. He’s 22nd in BPM. You have to go back to Kobe Bryant in 2007 to find someone that was outside the top 3 in BPM, and he was 6th and was not really deserving. Steve Nash won it in 2006 finishing 17th, and he REALLY didn’t deserve it. Even so, Nash led the league in assists and his teams were considered legit contenders.

So I think it is very unlikely for Brunson to get anything but a passing mention in the MVP conversation this year. He’s not even a lock to make the all-star team (he should be, but is not…)

Where was Melo ranked in 2013 when he got the only 1st place vote for MVP besides LeBron?

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you all.

I’m enjoying a cigar and some courvoisier while i light this grill up here in the mezzanine 😉.

Enjoying this first Christmas with my son. Made even sweeter by a Knicks win today.

Not sure if Brunson is a 1, 1A, or whatever, but I do think that he can be the on-court leader of a championship team in a #2 role. It’s really about getting the right guys for him to lead and to have his back on D. Clearly he can score in iso with the best…

So there is not a situation where Brunson is the best player on a title team? Curious, why with better players around him, especially at the 2/3 can’t Brunson actually be even better than he already is?

Love Brunson but he’s not getting any sort of significant MVP share. His scoring and efficiency are good but not great, his playmaking is fine, and defense is terrible. On top of that, we’re almost certainly not going to win 50 games or finish with a top 3 seed (when Melo finished a distant 2nd we won 54 games and were the 2nd seed).

I would guess he receives fewer MVP votes than Randle did 3 years ago.

Brunson is very unlikely to win MVP without us having the best record or stepping up his game yet again. His 2p% is down this year, but even that ticking up to average probably doesn’t cut it.

As for a championship 1a, offensively he’s probably better than Dirk and whoever was #1 for the Pistons.

Those seem achievable, but certainly don’t give you the best a shot at winning a title. Regardless of who you consider the Pistons #1, he was way better on defense than Brunson anyway.

26 ppg on 60% TS% is more than just good and the Knicks most definitely can win 50 games and be as high as the 4th seed.

I agree he won’t and really shouldn’t be anywhere near the MVP discussion but still there should be no room for Brunson slander even on this site!

Brunson won’t win MVP this season but he’ll make up for it by winning the Finals MVP.

His eFG+ and TS+ are 102 and 103, not elite. He’s 15th in PPG.

Brunson is not better than Dirk

Philly now 0-4 without Embiid. Even with Maxey’s emergence I’m not sure if Philly would even be a play in team without Embiid.

“As for a championship 1a, offensively he’s probably better than Dirk…”

You’re kidding, right? I mean, at Brunson’s age, Dirk led the entire NBA in OBPM twice in a row! And that’s in a league with LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, etc., etc….Dirk had 8 seasons with an OBPM higher than Brunson’s, and he’d probably be even more effective in today’s game.

I know we are all thrilled at finally acquiring a guy of Brunson’s caliber and locking him up on maybe the best non-rookie deal in the NBA for a measly tampering charge. It is truly a joy to watch him kicking the league’s ass. But let’s see him make a couple of all-star teams before we start saying he is better than all-time great offensive players.

You’re kidding, right? I mean, at Brunson’s age, Dirk led the entire NBA in OBPM twice in a row! And that’s in a league with LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, etc., etc….Dirk had 8 seasons with an OBPM higher than Brunson’s, and he’d probably be even more effective in today’s game.

Notably, none of those were the year Dirk won a championship

Back on December 9, right after the Milwaukee-Boston IST debacle and Mitch going down, I very nervously said this about the upcoming 12 games through MIN on 1/1/24:

“So assuming Brunson’s ankle thing is just a tweak, 6-6 seems like a high-water mark, and 4-8 is not a disaster. I’d probably sign up for 5-7.”

Pretty happy I didn’t have a chance to sign up for 5-7!!

“Notably, none of those were the year Dirk won a championship”

Dirk was tied for 9th in OBPM that year. Of the 8 guys above him, 5 were league MVPs and the others were Kevin Love, Chris Paul, and Dwyane Wade. He was pretty much a 50-40-90 guy on a 32% usage. He went on to win finals MVP.

Brunson is not in the same stratosphere as Dirk was then.

It’s crazy that, for as good as Brunson has been, he really shouldn’t be in any reasonable MVP discussion. Not in a league that has Shai, Jokic, Doncic, and Embiid. (Shai, alone, plays the same position, has all of Brunson’s numbers supersized, plus leads the league in steals and never turns the ball over. It’s kind of ridiculous.)

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