[New York Post] – Sun, 10 Dec 2023 20:05:00 GMT
Mitchell Robinson in Knicks limbo after concerning injury
[New York Post] – Sun, 10 Dec 2023 07:50:00 GMT
Knicks defense has take turn for the worse: ‘intensity’ missing
[New York Post] – Mon, 11 Dec 2023 00:29:00 GMT
Knicks’ Donte DiVincenzo sees offensive dip as starter
[Posting and Toasting] – Sun, 10 Dec 2023 15:49:45 GMT
When the Knicks host the Raptors Monday, watch this potential trade target
[New York Post] – Sun, 10 Dec 2023 09:00:00 GMT
- Knicks Jalen Brunson walking fine during on-court ceremony at Villanova
- Knicks make concerning Jalen Brunson move ahead of Raptors game
- Jalen Brunson ankle injury not serious?
- Thibodeau: Brunson ‘Good’ For Monday vs. Raptors – New York Knicks Injury Tracker
- NBA Rumors: Jalen Brunson, Kyrie Irving, Anthony Edwards, & Joel Embiid Injury Updates, Plus More
[Nets Daily] – Mon, 11 Dec 2023 00:24:50 GMT
Dariq Whitehead scores 15 points in 19 minutes but Long Island Nets lose
[Posting and Toasting] – Sun, 10 Dec 2023 13:00:00 GMT
Who becomes eligible to trade from the New York Knicks on December 15?
[Posting and Toasting] – Sun, 10 Dec 2023 21:00:00 GMT
Who Wore it Best? Knicks #6
[Winners and Whiners] – Sun, 10 Dec 2023 20:11:03 GMT
Toronto Raptors vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 12-11-2023
[Basketball Network] – Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:59:00 GMT
“We both didn’t know exactly what we were doing” – Derek Fisher on his mediocre coaching stint with the NY Knicks under Phil Jackson
[Sports Illustrated] – Mon, 11 Dec 2023 11:00:00 GMT
NBA Standings Forecast Wary On Knicks After In-Season Tournament
66 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.12.11)”
It will be nice to see Hartenstein with the starters and for Sims to get some time.
Not sure how nice it will be to have Sims out there but at least we will get a status report on his play
Found the fact that we lost ground last week very annoying especially because both games were unwatchable for me. Got zero enjoyment from Bucks game and very little from Boston.
However, think it’s very good that we battle top teams and see them a lot during regular season to better prepare us for playoffs. Macri’s email from KFS this morning showed that majority of the open threes were not caused by drop coverage. The more looks and practice sets they get against them, the better they will defend Boston and Bucks when it matters most.
Also, not sure that Adam Silver will change the format to reward teams that get out of group stage and have them play against lottery teams. While Knickerbloggers watch every game, most casual fans only watch games against top super star filled teams. Think format maximizes revenue and won’t be changed anytime soon.
Beyond Poeltl, TOR doesn’t really have a true C on the roster. It will likely be Sims vs. Achiuwa. So it’s probably as good of a matchup as possible. I don’t think the game will be won or lost at the C position. Like last time, it will likely come down to 3pt shooting.
Mitch is out tonight. Again, damn curious how a system that’s more than ever designed largely around one guy functions without that guy, even in the short term.
Meanwhile, I haven’t finished Fred Katz’s appearance on Macri’s podcast yet, but Fred argues that he’s no more concerned about the team now than he was before we got spanked by Milwaukee and Boston. And noted that we really got screwed by the IST in terms of the match-ups we were given, losing a home game (and potentially all the revenue for a home game), etc.
Facts, but it’s nice to know that iHart+Sims > Poetl+Achiuwa anyway
The consolation game is the killer. At the very least, no knockout team should have to play two road games.
I actually enjoyed the first half of that Bucks game. Both teams were on fire offensively, and we looked like we “belonged” with the Bucks (if you squinted a little bit). Of course, our team collapsed in the second half, so bummer. And, yeah, I def. agree the Boston game was a sad slog of a head cold from start to finish. I hope we’ve recovered.
Re tonight: I love Mitch, but I am curious to see how a passing Center can change our look a bit, and I’m always curious to see if Sims can improve like Mitch did in his first years. It’s early enough in the season. Data data data love data.
Mitch was pretty great right out of the block. I remember watching him early, maybe in Vegas, maybe in preseason, and being immediately smitten. You could tell immediately that he had very very rare NBA athleticism.
Never had that feeling with Sims, who is the same age as Mitch. (true fact! both 25)
We may be headed for a stretch where the wisdom of having 5 2-3s and 3.5 4-5s is tested. Should still be a credible product out their though.
Ok hear me out. I know we don’t have many DeRozan fans here but how about this trade:
Knicks get:
DeRozan
Caruso
Pat Williams
Bulls get:
RJ
Grimes
Fournier
2024 1st
Bucks 2025 1st
This would give us a lineup of 5 above-average starters in Brunson, Caruso, DeRozan, Randle, and Mitch, plus, 4 above-average bench guys in Quickley, DDV, Hart, and Hartenstein, giving us a super solid rotation.
Caruso would be a great fit because he’s the original hustlebunny, won’t demand shots, and will give us great shooting and defense. And even though he’s old, DeRozan is simply a better version of RJ, who I’ve completely given up on.
Obviously we would be mortgaging the future a bit, but I believe we could still flip a lot of these guys for firsts in case that elusive star trade comes along. And if DeRozan looks shot, we can replace him in free agency and still keep Caruso, who is shooting and defending like a madman this year. Williams possibly nets us a cheap backup PF.
It’s far from ideal, but this team is clearly “all in” with Thibs to get Dolan his playoff ticket revenue, which is why complainers don’t stick around long. There’s just no point in pining for a rebuild here.
For Chicago, they get a nice young player in Grimes, a tank commander in RJ and two firsts that will convey. Plus, they get their young guys more pt and can move on from that terrible Williams pick.
Objectively that would be a fine trade, I don’t think it’s worth discussing trades involving key players (in the Knicks FO’s mind) for anything less than actual stars. Until then, RJ isn’t going anywhere, certainly not for DeRozan, who is a scorer but not anything else, and who scores in the same way that their two other scorers score.
That trade seems like more or less fair value but agree that we’re not going to trade that much for a haul that doesn’t make us contenders. We’d be better, but still not good enough and our ability to swing another big trade would be significantly hampered. At this point it feels like our next significant trade has to be the haymaker–there’s so little room left for incremental improvement that you can argue all the remaining chips should be saved for the big one.
The only Hart-sized trade I could see is one for Bogdanović because the protected Pistons’ pick means a lot more to them than it does to anyone else (getting it back would free up trade possibilities for them).
Pun intended, I assume. 😉
Yes, Mitch is/was clearly a freak with more upside than Sims from the get go. I do, however, believe Mitch has learned so much, come so far, in BB intelligence over his years. I want Sims to show same and have opportunity to prove it or be dispatched to Europe.
Clearly Sims is nowhere near as good as Mitch. With iHart it’s a bit more murky. Mitch is still better overall, but by how much?
I know that I’m persona non grata around here for being less enamored with Mitch than most, and just to be clear, I am not advocating for replacing Mitch with iHart. In the long run, I’d like to acquire a better starting C with a more diversified game. I don’t see Mitch as the starting C of a championship-level team, unless that team has someone like LeBron, or Steph..you know, a top-10 of all time-type. Until then, I’ll just have to accept that we will get outplayed at that position by BOS, PHI, MIA, MIL, eventually CLE when Mobley gets it together, and probably IND…not to mention DEN, MIN, LAL, probably OKC, and soon SAS…and whatever advantage he provides against other teams will continue the illusion that he’s the answer there.
Here is what I would pay for the only non super-star players, I can see Leon trade for are
a) Mikal – Send IQ, Grimes, Fournier + as many picks as it takes
b) OG – Send RJ, Grimes + as many picks as it takes
c) Sadiq Bey – Send Grimes + salary fills + as many picks as it takes
Re: Donovan Mitchel
Cavs overpaid for him and will never take a haircut to send him to NY. In real estate terms, Gansey is not a “qualified seller”. He needs to find a buyer who will overpay again. Will likely end up holding on to DM and risk loosing him in free agency.
Count me in but it has to be alongside a better head coach too.
“Here is what I would pay for the only non super-star players, I can see Leon trade for are
a) Mikal – Send IQ, Grimes, Fournier + as many picks as it takes
b) OG – Send RJ, Grimes + as many picks as it takes
c) Sadiq Bey – Send Grimes + salary fills + as many picks as it takes”
I don’t know what “as many picks as it takes” means. but beyond that:
-Mikal would cost as much as a superstar. So you are basically saying that our team would be whatever it is after that trade.
-OG is theoretically possible, but the current lawsuit almost certainly prices us out….TOR would probably take less from the other 28 teams to avoid trading him to the Knicks. So again, we’d have to pay superstar prices.
-Saddiq is probably the most gettable. If we could get him for Grimes and a pick, I’d be all for it. ATL probably wants more, but unless/until he is extended, who knows?
“Count me in but it has to be alongside a better head coach too.”
Yeah, that’s the rub. Thibs and Mitch are perfect for each other..unless one thinks that Thibs is holding Mitch back on O. So it really comes down to enjoying/living with him, or the FO forcing a situation on Thibs by making a trade.
pat williams is due for an extension that is most certainly not going to be worth it….
i love derozan and as a placeholder to tide over until mitchell becomes available.. probably an ok idea… the team desperately needs another initiator to hopefully get randle easier shots so he can play more offball… he also excels in the midrange where we need better shotmakers to take advantage of when things get tough….
that also gets into the issue of the mediocrity treadmill…. you get addicted to winning 42-44 games and as soon as one leg of that starts getting wobbly (randle) you have to keep investing to keep being mediocre…. sooner or later you run out of legs….
caruso is amazing…. but most certainly wasted here… he needs way more minutes and he’d be cannibalizing even more from guys that should be playing more…
giving up draft picks is just a bad idea… they need to be invested into high upside pieces…. whether its for a star or finding the energy to look at more than a handful of guys in the draft….. at this point in the win curve they are more valuable than ever to avoid the bottom from falling out….
“At this point it feels like our next significant trade has to be the haymaker–there’s so little room left for incremental improvement that you can argue all the remaining chips should be saved for the big one.
The only Hart-sized trade I could see is one for Bogdanović because the protected Pistons’ pick means a lot more to them than it does to anyone else (getting it back would free up trade possibilities for them).”
That’s the only obvious one at this time…but there is a load of time before the trade deadline and there’s certainly a chance that teams will get desperate…either to unload salary or to acquire missing pieces…that players like IQ and Grimes, or even Fournier, might have utility in a deal, maybe even facilitating a 3-way trade.
Obviously I want to keep IQ in the fold, but unless he’s given a chance to be a starter here, he may be the best asset for addressing the void at longer wing. In a perfect world, OG for IQ (plus whatever) at the deadline would make sense for both teams. Alas…
This is a winnable game tonight if Brunson plays, but I hope we don’t push the envelope too much with that ankle. If he rests, I’m curious to see how a starting lineup of iHart, Julius, RJ, DDV and IQ would do, with a bench of Sims, Grimes, Deuce, and Hart…obviously Julius would have to be the wrecking ball he was last time and our two C’s would have to stay out of foul trouble. But I wouldn’t write us off.
This raises a mostly-serious question: does the CBA allow for trade compensation to be part of a settlement agreement?
Yeah, the Bulls trade would be kind of a last resort… only if we are not moving the needle much and we can get them at the deadline. I’m not a huge fan of trading picks either, but this FO seems like it really wants to win each season, and I think it will make a move if it has to.
And there aren’t many moves to make, big or small. I very highly doubt BKN or TOR will do business with us, and the Nets probably don’t want to trade their best player. Bey would be fine, but does he really change much for us?
I know folks here are not fans of Zach Edey’s lumbering game translating to the NBA, but his college stats are, like, eyeball-exploding. I mean, Boban had a niche, and Edey moves better than him.
Mitch had some cryptic posts late last night on social media, he might be more seriously injured than initially thought?
“This raises a mostly-serious question: does the CBA allow for trade compensation to be part of a settlement agreement?”
I had thought of that possibility…seems pretty far-fetched.
note to future self – avoid monday morning mental health appointments…
that sucked, i’m going back to bed to play video games, maybe make and eat breakfast first…fuck it, maybe just get high(er) instead…
hey, so you think mitch brought the old guy from louisiana up to his spot just to babysit the dozen or so rottweilers he’s got now…
fucking ‘eh…if all else fails – i wouldn’t mind a gig like that…i wonder if coach there gets high? louisiana is pretty much like everywhere – a lot of old people get high now…
i bet they hand out edibles like candy in old folks homes…fuck a pill, eat some candy…
number one change in dispensary clientele these days, everyone standing in line got gray hair…
“Mitch had some cryptic posts late last night on social media, he might be more seriously injured than initially thought?”
Well, initially he had an x-ray in the locker room which came back negative, and then gave it a go and had to come out. So who knows? Doesn’t sound great to me.
whoa, i distinctly note a serious lack of bickering in the thread today – what gives?
see, right there, shit like that can throw me off balance a bit…
any minute though pags and E will show up to let loose some sunshine in to all our days…and swifty will just get mad about being mad…
The Mitch situation doesn’t sound good and it definitely sounds like we are going to get an extended run of IHart.
I love Hartenstein too. I think Mitch is better overall but I don’t think anyone in the NBA has a center platoon as excellently balanced as us.
Mitch should shoot his free throws underhanded but he’s good enough to be the center on a championship team, even will all his manifest limitations.
“This raises a mostly-serious question: does the CBA allow for trade compensation to be part of a settlement agreement?”
I had thought of that possibility…seems pretty far-fetched.
The only way it could work is in lieu of paying us $10million, Toronto agrees to (1) engage in trade talks with us; and (2) Masai agrees not to completely rip us off like he normally does. I think that would be fair.
More seriously, I could easily see that the reason we cannot do a trade with Toronto is an edict from a spiteful Dolan rather than their side.
fuck
That’s very bad. We may well be studying up on prospects soon.
Sucks that Mitch is out that long but it doesn’t mean the Knicks are lottery bound c’mon now TNFH I expect better from you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBATalk/comments/oyx1z7/isaiah_hartenstein_is_a_superstar_center_who_has/
Time to fulfill the prophecy
“Mitch should shoot his free throws underhanded but he’s good enough to be the center on a championship team, even will all his manifest limitations.”
Virtually any starting C in the NBA could theoretically be the center on a championship team. The question is: how does a given C’s limitations impact what you need from the other 4 positions?
If Embiid or Jokic or AD or KP or Bam is your starting C, it makes Brunson’s and Randle’s flaws less relevant. Alternatively, if Steph or LeBron or Durant is your starting alpha, then it makes Mitch’s flaws less relevant. So it’s all about how to create a championship mix, given where you are right now. I see Mitch’s trade value as a consideration, i.e. he’s far from untouchable. And if he is moved, I doubt that he’d be missed for long (except for his off-court demeanor…that’s special!)
*I wrote this before learning about the surgery….yikes! Hopefully no one will take my post to suggest anything other than that we’d be fine without Mitch if and only if we we replace him with a better player at another position.
i hope Sims has been keeping up on the playbook…
Maybe this would be a good time to see what Taj is doing these days…
Well, that really blows
let me guess: you had posted the exact sam eshit i did, but, hadn’t really read the thread, yet…upon reading the thread you realized this, and edited/deleted your comment and instead wrote: fuck…
or, just maybe, you got part of your gentlemanly part of your body stuck somewhere it shouldn’t be, hence: fuck…
i don’t know, this is a tough, fuck can just mean sooooo many things…one more word perhaps, and i think we’ll know what’s going on…hope you’re well…
Edit: oh fuck – mitch got a broken ankle…
see, in this case, the exclamation before the word fuck – let’s you know what’s up…
Despite Geo’s prediction that I’d post doom and gloom, I don’t think losing Mitch actually hurts us that much. I think his impact has been significantly overstated, and his deep flaws hurt us as much as his strengths help us.
I’m somewhat optimistic about what a healthy iHart can do as our starting C. He’s always had some skill as a passer and I wish Thibs were willing to try to play to his strengths instead of making him do his best Mitch impression. At the very least, the opposition can’t just foul him under the basket to turn a layup/dunk into a 35% TS possession.
Also hoping this leads to more small ball experimentation because I don’t think Sims is an NBA player.
And if we do just collapse without Mitch and go on a big losing streak, it’s still early enough to tank!
This has been your daily dose of optimism from your friendly neighborhood Pagliacci.
don’t worry about it pags, i got compulsions i ain’t even imagined on, yet…always time to learn though, always time to learn…
Bad news: Mitch has the 13th ranked Defensive EPM in the NBA and he’s gonna be out for a while
Good news: Hartenstein has the 6th ranked Defensive EPM in the NBA and he’ll presumably play a lot more
In all seriousness these samples are way too small to care about, but it’ll be morbidly interesting to see how we’re impacted.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we can weather the storm more on defense than on offense. Mitch might not be able to shoot a free throw but his offensive rebounding really is essential to what we do here. With our paltry shooting we need a lot of do-overs.
Maybe Hartenstein will really step up, earn himself a nice payday in the process, and our record won’t be effected much. Or maybe we’ll be counting ping-pong balls soon. I really could see it going either way.
iHart about to destroy Jokic’s legacy
Unless Sims leveled up his defense, we’re going to miss Mitch quite a bit. Luckily we have iHart to play 30+ mpg and mediate the impact. We’re still a top-10 defense and that was despite fielding 2 awful defenders with the starters.
Maybe, but Mitch also stops a lot of guards & forwards. It’s not really about the Cs. And if we’re just looking at C matchups, there aren’t many guys I’d take over Mitch to bang in the post against Embiid and Jokic.
IHart has an OReb rate of 15%…not Mitch’s 20% but not nothing either.
I think we will most miss Mitch’s non-fouling pnr defense…that’s the magic stat that doesn’t show up in the box score. IHart gets handsy and I’m worried that he has trouble staying on the floor, plus sends teams to the line, whereas Mitch just blows up those plays and gets no credit for stops. The drop off to Sims is pretty steep, so this isn’t the same as swapping iHart for Mitch as a starter. We need to dig up a 3rd string C somewhere.
IQ is also questionable tonight with knee inflammation.
If I remember we had a stretch last year where Mitch was out and it was actually during one of our win streaks.
We just gotta get through December and early January.
What’s Noel doing these days?
If Dolan hears about this… 😀
Earl Barron still around?
We won’t be counting ping pong balls.
Even though Sims is obviously close to a 1-1 replacement in the rotation I do think we need to look at FA pickups or low level trades probably because this leaves us frighteningly thin up front – only 3 guys over 6’6″.
this is gonna hurt and assuming this isn’t just a cleanup procedure like with randle this has the potential to linger all season…. (and even in the case of randle it can linger for 6 months supposedly)….
from a back of the napkin standpoint this will probably cost us at least 2 wins and that’s if Mitch comes back close to 100% at the 8 week mark….
2 wins is a lot.. but also not a lot… you can get hot and have a lot of things happen over the course of a couple months to offset that and hopefully Mitch comes back healthy… of course a lot of different things can also happen and it winds up exacerbating all the festering problems we’ve had also…
ihart will have to play a lot of minutes… he’s not mitch… so we lose things there… but also playing sims we outright lose ihart’s minutes on the bench.. so ihart can mitigate this.. but the guy who’s key to this is sims since he’s effectively replacing mitch’s minutes….
i hope this finally turns on the lightbulb for thibs to play randle at center and truly going more uptempo… we can at least do that for 12 minutes a game for 30 games if for nothing else to see how it works… yes it can be disastrous…. but this is what you get for not trying it out before… the alternative is not going to be much better..
a lot of things were already trending downwards and this couldn’t have come at a worse time for us… the wheels can definitely fall off this thing…
I’m sorry for Mitch who could have been in the mix for a spot in an NBA All-Defensive Teams.
I-Hart did his job last year during Mitch’s absence, let’s see if he can do it again…
we were 12-11 last year with mitch out so it’s very possible to weather this storm… but again… some variance each way can make things better/worse by a couple of games… the plus side is that ihart seems to have hit his groove as opposed to last year where he was not doing great… we were actually starting sims in a lot of those games mitch was out…
i don’t think we’ll be as fortunate but we’ll see.. hopefully we get more creative with the lineups especially with a minutes crunch at the wings as this could open things up a bit…
feel bad for mitch…seems depressed…as he should be…being in and out of physical rehab is mentally and physically draining…
Blast from the past!
This ^^^^^
Too bad Queta is unavailable, he’d be a great get to fight with Sims for the backup role.
I think he is available. If he’s healthy it’d be a great option.
We should have held on to Knight.
Say what? 🤔
It’s very Thibsian, thus keeping iHart in his normal role.