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Knicks Morning News (2023.06.15)

  • Knicks Rumors: RJ Barrett 3-Team Trade Idea Involves Clippers, Blazers – Heavy.com
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, June 15, 2023 12:12:54 AM

    Knicks Rumors: RJ Barrett 3-Team Trade Idea Involves Clippers, Blazers  Heavy.com

  • Knicks Primed To Trade For Raptors’ OG Anunoby – Yardbarker
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 11:03:37 PM

    Knicks Primed To Trade For Raptors’ OG Anunoby  Yardbarker

  • Walker Kessler Joins Jalen Brunson on Team USA World Cup … – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 10:25:19 PM

    Walker Kessler Joins Jalen Brunson on Team USA World Cup …  Sports Illustrated

  • Better Late Than Never? Knicks Land Zion Williamson in Trade Idea – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 10:00:34 PM

    Better Late Than Never? Knicks Land Zion Williamson in Trade Idea  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks Primed To Trade For Raptors’ OG Anunoby – NBA Analysis Network
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 8:21:20 PM

    Knicks Primed To Trade For Raptors’ OG Anunoby  NBA Analysis Network

  • Zach LaVine to the New York Knicks? Here’s the proposed deal – ChiCitySports.com
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 7:42:14 PM

    Zach LaVine to the New York Knicks? Here’s the proposed deal  ChiCitySports.com

  • Ex-Knicks Star Can’t Oust Judge In MSG Suit – Law360
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 6:56:00 PM

    Ex-Knicks Star Can’t Oust Judge In MSG Suit  Law360

  • Massive Paul George, Damian Lillard, Knicks Trade Idea – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 3:10:04 PM

    Massive Paul George, Damian Lillard, Knicks Trade Idea  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks reportedly discussed potential Bradley Beal deal during the season – Posting and Toasting
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:50:55 PM

    Knicks reportedly discussed potential Bradley Beal deal during the season  Posting and Toasting

  • Knicks Rumors: Wizards’ Bradley Beal Previously Discussed as Potential Trade Target – Bleacher Report
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:46:13 PM

    Knicks Rumors: Wizards’ Bradley Beal Previously Discussed as Potential Trade Target  Bleacher Report

  • Nets Rumors: ‘Ball of Energy’ Floated as Target for Knicks – Heavy.com
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:46:02 PM

    Nets Rumors: ‘Ball of Energy’ Floated as Target for Knicks  Heavy.com

  • NBA Rumors: Knicks emerge as possible suitor for Bradley Beal – ClutchPoints
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:36:11 PM

    NBA Rumors: Knicks emerge as possible suitor for Bradley Beal  ClutchPoints

  • Adding Beal, Paul Would Tear Down Knicks’ Brunson Based Foundation – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:35:19 PM

    Adding Beal, Paul Would Tear Down Knicks’ Brunson Based Foundation  Sports IllustratedKnicks reportedly discussed potential Bradley Beal deal during the season  Posting and ToastingNBA Rumors: Bradley Beal trade report opens door for Knicks deal  Daily Knicks

  • What Knicks pre-draft workouts reveal about their NBA Draft plan – AMNY
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 1:54:43 PM

    What Knicks pre-draft workouts reveal about their NBA Draft plan  AMNY

  • Knicks are Karl-Anthony Towns favorites if he leaves Timberwolves – ClutchPoints
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 1:29:57 PM

    Knicks are Karl-Anthony Towns favorites if he leaves Timberwolves  ClutchPoints

  • New York Knicks PG Derrick Rose Reunion with Chicago Bulls? – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 1:24:28 PM

    New York Knicks PG Derrick Rose Reunion with Chicago Bulls?  Sports Illustrated

  • “Rolling Along” film about Knicks legend and N.J. Sen. Bill Bradley set to premiere at Tribeca Festival – CBS News
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 12:35:58 PM

    “Rolling Along” film about Knicks legend and N.J. Sen. Bill Bradley set to premiere at Tribeca Festival  CBS News

  • Knicks the betting favorite to land Russell Westbrook if he leaves … – ClutchPoints
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 12:32:16 PM

    Knicks the betting favorite to land Russell Westbrook if he leaves …  ClutchPoints

  • “Rolling Along” tells story behind Knicks legend and former N.J. Sen … – YouTube
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 12:15:54 PM

    “Rolling Along” tells story behind Knicks legend and former N.J. Sen …  YouTube

  • How to watch the NBA Draft with and without cable: Full streaming … – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 10:00:45 AM

    How to watch the NBA Draft with and without cable: Full streaming …  Daily Knicks

  • Knicks’ Off-Season Targets: Josh Hart Working to Bring in Villanova sharp-shooter – Empire Sports Media
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 9:52:47 AM

    Knicks’ Off-Season Targets: Josh Hart Working to Bring in Villanova sharp-shooter  Empire Sports Media

  • Knicks fans are evenly split on the idea of trading Obi Toppin this summer – Posting and Toasting
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 9:23:03 AM

    Knicks fans are evenly split on the idea of trading Obi Toppin this summer  Posting and Toasting

  • Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley extension: How much will it take? – The Athletic
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 9:10:41 AM

    Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley extension: How much will it take?  The Athletic

  • Pod Strickland: Episode 305 – The Strickland
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 8:43:55 AM

    Pod Strickland: Episode 305  The Strickland

  • Three-team trade proposal sees Knicks gain from Pelicans’ obsession – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 8:00:12 AM

    Three-team trade proposal sees Knicks gain from Pelicans’ obsession  Daily Knicks

  • Atlanta Hawks’ Trae Young once thought he would be a New York … – Soaring Down South
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, June 14, 2023 7:55:18 AM

    Atlanta Hawks’ Trae Young once thought he would be a New York …  Soaring Down South

  • 56 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.06.15)”

    I’m far more interested in OG Anunoby and Zach Lavine than players like Beal/Towns/etc.

    OG is an elite defensive player at the premium position in the league. He can guard 1-4 at an elite level and is an event creator –> led the league in steals this year. He has a career usage of about 20, which is probably what you want in a lineup that will have Brunson and Randle, and has shot about 38.5% from 3 on roughly 6 3PA/36 over the last 4 years. When healthy, he’s the king of 3/D players, perhaps even more so than Mikal because Mikal really can’t handle the apex predator wings because he’s just too skinny (Mikal has way more creator-type juice on offense though). Having Grimes+OG in the starting lineup will transform the defense, and I can’t even imagine teams trying to score against Quickley+Grimes+OG. He is about to turn 26, won’t command anywhere close to a max contract…. I am not totally sure what would have to go into the trade to get him, but he is a very worthy target. Presumably RJ would go out in this trade, which would be addition by subtraction also.

    Re Lavine – our offense really needs an injection of real athleticism – everything is plodding outside of Obi, who barely plays. In the postseason, our offense completely fell apart without Brunson on the floor. Julius has shown himself to be incapable of carrying an offense in the playoffs — we need another guy who can draw 2 to the ball. He’s not great on defense, but he is not worse than Barrett.

    Lavine’s on a “max contract” but it is a much lesser contract than Towns or Beal (in fact about $10MM less/season) – much more palatable. We’d have to lean on the team docs re: his knees of course.

    re: IQ’s extension. We should offer 5/110 with descending structure. It might not be everything he wants but IMHO it’s hard to turn down $110 million when he hasn’t really made generational money yet. He can turn it down, but if I were his agent — I am not at all sure how RFA will turn out for him in the new CBA.

    Of all the off-season issues, the one I am least fazed about is the IQ extension. Leon, the former agent, will pay a fair price, erring on the side of keeping the player happy. It is what it is.

    On the mega trade front, I am worried. Not so much about what and how much goes out, but who comes in. I just hope Leon keeps on the same path of highly valuing good character/team first over splashiness. So you know where I stand in the OG-Zion spectrum

    Haven’t finished today’s Macri podcast with Fred Katz, but it’s a good conversation so far about the IQ extension. Katz is of the opinion that the Knicks should just wait, since it would become much more complicated to trade IQ in this upcoming season if he has the same poison-pill contract issue that RJ had this past season. And Macri seems convinced that IQ is being traded at some point or other, simply because he wants to start and that opportunity is never going to be there on this team with Brunson here.

    I know many here have argued that we should just start an IQ/Brunson backcourt. That’s pretty small, though, even if IQ has a huge wingspan. And it also makes having another real PG to come off the bench into a necessity. Regardless, it does not appear that Thibs wants to do it outside of situations where one of his wings is out with an injury. Even though Thibs loves IQ.

    No interest in making moves that rely on even more usage being placed on Julius Randle’s plate, which makes the whole OG idea pretty unappealing to this armchair GM.

    The moves that are made should be with the mindset of asking less of Julius Randle, not more.

    I would simply start him at 2 guard.

    We should probably get another PG anyway since we were pretty boned when IQ got hurt in the playoffs

    OG for RJ would be a great trade for the Knicks, but the problem is what assets would go out with RJ? Another young player? Maybe Obi? And how many draft picks? Without knowing the asking price i can’t say i’d do it. But let’s say it’d be RJ and 2 picks (1 protected + 1 unprotected), and that i’d do in a heartbeat.

    It’s kinda crazy that we’ve had RJ and IQ on this team for three years and the FO thinks Barrett is the one who should be starting and getting paid.

    My only issue with IQ contract is leverage. I want us to win that negotiation.

    But more importantly, I want IQ in that starting lineup next to Brunson.

    Btw, happy 23rd birthday (yesterday) to RJ!

    “RJ Barrett and Luka Doncic are the only players in NBA history with 4000 points, 1400 rebounds, 700 assists, and 430 3PM before turning 23 years old!”

    OG for RJ would be a great trade for the Knicks, but the problem is what assets would go out with RJ?

    Probably all of them bc RJ Barrett isn’t good and Toronto isn’t dumb.

    Seriously, though, you guys consistently underestimate OG’s value. Someone laughed at the Athletic’s trade proposal the other day but it was spot on. OG will cost a fortune.

    OG will cost a fortune.

    That was exactly what i was talking about (“Without knowing the asking price i can’t say i’d do it“). I don’t think OG is worth a fortune, so i wouldn’t pay it. Would you?

    I think the salary floor rule is being phased in. Teams that are under the floor on the first day of the 2023-2024 season will lose half their otherwise due luxury tax payment. Teams that are under the floor on the first day of the 2024-2025 season will lose all their otherwise due luxury tax payment.

    I feel similarly about IQ, Mitch, and Grimes. At this time they are nice pieces on value deals, meaning that their value in a trade for a core piece might be higher than their long-term value as core pieces themselves.

    I’d be the most reluctant to part with Grimes. He’s elite at attacking closeouts and a potentially top-tier 3pt shooter. He’s a very strong defender with good but not great size. I expect him to add wrinkles to his inside-the-arc offensive game, but the lightening-quick reads and willingness to keep his head up and pass are already there. I expect his usage to approach 20% next year.

    IQ is a quandary. I mostly love him but also worry that there is a built-in inconsistency to his game. It’s hard to pinpoint a ceiling for his offensive game, but it appears to me that he’s working hard at his attack-the-rim game and some results are evident. Seems like a guy who will just get better and better, but there’s a non-negligible probability that he will top out at around this level and might be overpaid at $20+M AAV. Cashing him in for more of a sure thing is certainly rational. But I love rooting for him, and so do all the ladies in my life.

    Mitch, Mitch, Mitch….I just cringe every time he goes to the FT line, not just because of his percentage but that his form shows a wilfull rejection of the basic physics of the FT. It almost looks like he’s saying “f you, I know what I’m doing and don’t need your help” to those who look to correct that line-drive bullshit he throws up there. And that suggests to me that he is at his ceiling. Now to be fair, it’s a high ceiling on several fronts…the rim protection, the offensive rebounding, the vertical threat on lobs…but I’d be fine moving on from him if it nets a vast improvement either at C or at another position. No question that he is likely to outperform his contract by a significant margin in the next 3 years, so keeping him is fine…but out of these 3, he’d be my first option to move in a trade for a sure-fire star.

    I don’t think OG is worth a fortune, so i wouldn’t pay it. Would you?

    I think he is worth it, but I don’t think we can afford it.

    It’s the same as Josh Hart, IMO, except at a much higher price point.

    starting iq and brunson isn’t all that great… they operate in mostly the same areas (floater range).. so it’s even more of a your turn my turn offense that gets stopped by similar things….

    iq’s value is almost entirely predicated on someone giving him starting pg money.. that’s where all the crazy 20+mm rumors are coming from… as a starting 2 he’s way down the totem pole.. and as a bench piece he’s even further…. which is why if someone gives him that money it’s really hard to match because there’s almost no scenario where he recoups value….

    the brunson extension represents a clock but the IQ and hart deals also necessitate a trade being done relatively soon because tying a lot of money in the bench is untenable and needs to be consolidated ….

    Seriously, though, you guys consistently underestimate OG’s value.

    Because too much of it is tied up in defense and too much of the defense is premised on steals and/or stocks.

    I don’t actually think he’s the perfect player for this team at all, especially for the usage reasons I noted above.

    Which isn’t to say he isn’t a nice player — he is — he’s just an overrated player, including on Knickerblogger. I wouldn’t mind adding him to this team, just not at anything like these prices and not as a replacement for Barrett.

    Brunson/IQ doesn’t work as a starting backcourt. IQ works terrifically as an off the bench sixth man; I’d certainly pay him way before I’d pay Josh Hart (or looking ahead, Quentin Grimes).

    Here’s a question: How many teams in the NBA would view Immanuel Quickley as a better starting PG option than what they currently have?

    Discuss.

    Mikal and Og are far from superstars. Some, not all of their playoff stats are actually worse than RJ’s. You guys are way overestimating their value.

    I know, I know, they’re better defenders. Since when do you send multiple unprotected picks and multiple promising young players (IQ, Grimes) for good defenders in the NBA?

    Brunson/IQ doesn’t work as a starting backcourt.

    They played 900 minutes together last year and the Knicks were a +8.5 in those minutes, so sure, pretty clearly wouldn’t work if they were both starting.

    Here’s a question: How many teams in the NBA would view Immanuel Quickley as a better starting PG option than what they currently have?

    I’ll take a stab –> “yes” = team is better off with IQ than current PG

    Atlanta – no (Trae)
    Boston – no (Derrick White)
    Nets – yes (Dinwiddie?)
    Charlotte – no (Lamelo –> but actually would slot very nicely next to him)
    Chicago – MAYBE (Caruso)
    Cleveland – no (Mitchell/Garland)
    Dallas – lol
    Denver – no (Murray)
    Detroit – yes (Killian Hayes?)
    Golden State – no (Curry)
    Houston – yes (who IS their PG?)
    Indiana – yes (with Halliburton over Nembhard)
    Lakers – he’d be great there
    Memphis – no (Ja)
    Miami – yes (Vincent)
    Milwaukee – no (Jrue)
    Minnesota – probably (old Conley)
    Pelicans – probably not (can’t play him and CJ together)
    OKC – no (SGA)
    Orlando – probably (Fultz)
    Sixers – probably over Melton
    Phoenix – yes (assuming CP3 leaving or transitioning to bench role)
    Portland – no (Dame)
    Sac – no (Fox)
    San Antonio – yes
    Toronto – yes if FVV leaves
    Utah – yes (Sexton)
    Wizards – probably (I love Monte Morris)

    Basically most teams whose primary initiator is not the PG would be better with IQ, and some whose current primary initiator is bad would be better with IQ.

    So something roughly around 1/3 to 1/2 the league would be better off with IQ in my estimation…

    I never understood the old salary cap very well and I damn sure don’t understand the new one, so that caveat applies here. That said, if I’m running this team I’m trying to maintain flexibility and win some games until there’s an opportunity to bring in a real difference maker, a Giannis-Embiid-Doncic type player.

    That might never happen, and as a result this version of the team might never truly contend for a title. But here’s the thing: the Brunson-OG-Randle-Turner type teams that are being discussed here won’t truly contend for a title either.

    We need chrome and leather. Not more nuts and bolts.

    I’ve always liked OG, stumped for him before the 2017 draft, think he’s a lot better than the box score AIOs indicate.

    That said, doesn’t seem like there’s any kind of market inefficiency here. Other teams like him just as much as we do and it sounds like the bidding will get pretty intense. Not sure how much sense it makes to trade for him at a price that largely locks us into this team + OG.

    If we’re just swapping out RJ though, absolutely go for it.

    you can’t just throw out lineup data and give binary analysis… randle and brunson have played the most minutes together and they only have a 0.3 net rating… does that mean we shouldn’t play them together?

    when brunson and iq play together it’s usually somewhere in the 2nd and start of the 4th that probably has a lot of bench units involved on either side… that’s generally where undersized two guards get exploited less… he’s also replacing rj’s usage in those lineups so just that alone will skew numbers because he was pretty terrible last year… that’s basically what the lineup data is telling you but we already know iq was better than rj last year… it doesn’t tell you that it works in general….

    can iq and brunson work? i think precedence on multiple small/pg lineups and their relative success is more informative but devoting long term money into that pairing is absolutely very risky….

    doesn’t seem like there’s any kind of market inefficiency here.

    The only market inefficiency is the possibility that the value of RJ is greater to Toronto than elsewhere because he is Canadian. I know that is a stretch but I think that is the basis of most of the RJ to Toronto ideas.

    We could always hire OG’s dad as a coach to create another inefficiency though.

    I’m always a bit surprised more teams don’t skip the extension process and just deal with restricted free agency. By all means lock up the Lukas et al. of the world the first second you can, but for more borderline cases going into restricted free agency seems to make a lot of sense.

    Other teams don’t love tying up their cap space in offer sheets that they know will be matched, and the risk of having to pay a bit more is easily counterbalanced by the reward of the extra year of flexibility (as Katz notes re: IQ) and the possibility of paying less.

    I think this is where the human element of NBA transactions come into play. The reason we see a lot of extensions is simply because not giving them out can create an unpleasant atmosphere. NBA GMs have in many cases concluded that’s more harmful than any damage stemming from the extension.

    I still think that with very, um, borderline cases like RJ Barrett the RFA route makes the most sense. No one was going to tie up a $120M+ offer sheet on him. It’s something to think about with IQ though, who stands to have more leverage to leave the Knicks at his first opportunity.

    I think the salary floor rule is being phased in.

    Thanks, KnickFan, and in that case i think teams will avoid being below the salary floor starting this season. There’s no reason to give up half of the luxury money. Even if they don’t find the right player, they can sign a player to a non guaranteed contract and worry about getting the right player later.

    I’ll take a stab –> “yes” = team is better off with IQ than current PG

    I agree with all of Frank’s answers to Alan’s question. But in terms of teams that would pull the trigger once they saw IQ as better the universe shrinks a lot because they would have to commit the $100million or so to get him, which they may not have, have but see a better use of the money on other parts of the roster, or are not willing to free it up by shedding assets to do so.

    when brunson and iq play together it’s usually somewhere in the 2nd and start of the 4th that probably has a lot of bench units involved on either side… that’s generally where undersized two guards get exploited less…

    can confirm. iq/brunson lineups were roughly net flat (-.5 ppp) when playing ~470 minutes against 4 or more starters but were plus 19/100 in 350 minutes against 2 or fewer opponent starters.

    Detroit – yes (Killian Hayes?)
    Houston – yes (who IS their PG?)

    Cade is Detroit’s PG, so they won’t be interested. Houston’s PG is Kevin Porter Jr, don’t know him very well, but i’d say they might be interested.
    There’s rumors that the Suns want IQ, but what can they give us that makes trading him worthwhile?

    I never understood the old salary cap very well and I damn sure don’t understand the new one, so that caveat applies here.

    Seconded

    I don’t really understand the IQ discourse. His defensive numbers are fantastic and he rates extremely well overall. He is one of the highest impact perimeter defenders the Knicks have had in my lifetime. I agree his offense often seems haphazard and erratic. It’s a strange blend of “no no yes” shots, awkward floaters, and dubious free throws. But at this point you have to say it looks like the offensive floor is in and there is a demonstrable skill set.

    In sum, he’s a really fucking good player and I think still a fairly underrated one. If you had to pick one Knicks player to build around from scratch, with their current market value as their salary, I am not sure IQ wouldn’t be the pick. (i.e. Brunson would have a salary at least 50% higher in this hypothetical.)

    I will await the PTMilo correction but that’s how it feels to me.

    I like the OG idea but he feels quite duplicative with Hart. I know he’s bigger and different but it’s hard to see how we could manage both. I would absolutely love to watch IQ, OG, QG and Mitch defending though.

    Other teams don’t love tying up their cap space in offer sheets that they know will be matched, and the risk of having to pay a bit more is easily counterbalanced by the reward of the extra year of flexibility (as Katz notes re: IQ) and the possibility of paying less.

    The risk isn’t that you pay a bit more in RFA, the risk is that you pay multiples of the proposed salary.

    There’s a very obvious example that everyone on this board is familiar with.

    (Also the moratorium is dropping to 24hrs, fwiw)

    Mikal and Og are far from superstars. Some, not all of their playoff stats are actually worse than RJ’s. You guys are way overestimating their value.

    On a scale of 1-10 :

    Mikal Bridges = 7
    OG Anunoby = 5
    RJ Barrett = 2

    While recognizing the weakneses of RJs game, I think we’re over reacting a bit here. He’s become last summers Julius Randle. Pretty soon, folks are going to want to add a draft pick as a sweetner to get rid of him.

    While recognizing the weakneses of RJs game, I think we’re over reacting a bit here. He’s become last summers Julius Randle.

    Randle had recently been an all-star and an All-NBA player. In his 2 seasons before NY he put up a .600 TS% ON 25% usage.

    RJ Barrett had a pretty nice 11 game playoff run.

    They aren’t all that similar even if you believe RJ will be good some day

    Katz on the idea of the Knicks trading for Beal: https://theathletic.com/4613088/2023/06/15/bradley-beal-knicks-trade/

    As always, I urge everybody to click on the link and read it, but some of the highlights:

    1)Knicks FO has made it clear to Washington for a while that they’re interested if Beal ever hits the market.
    2)Asset cost may not be that high because of Beal’s contract and his no-trade clause, since he gets to pick where to go. (Though his first choice is Miami, and he prefers warm weather in general.) Thinks it could be as little as Fournier and DRose for salary matching, giving Washington back its protected pick, and maybe one of the young guys.
    3)Thinks Beal would be a great offensive fit next to Brunson, as his best seasons came alongside ball-dominant PGs Wall and Westbrook.
    4)Is aware the defense could be a disaster, but wonders if Beal just isn’t trying as hard on defense these days because the team is bad, and that in the right team/culture, he’d go back to being the good defender he was earlier in his career.
    5)The no-trade clause would transfer with him, so if we acquire him and he doesn’t work out, we are kind of stuck with him, unless he agrees to go to a team with enough cap/tax space to fit him in, and that is likely to be a bad team.

    In other words, pass.

    Pretty soon, folks are going to want to add a draft pick as a sweetner to get rid of him.

    Pretty soon? That’s all Noble talked about before the playoffs started. Then, of course, he turned to trolling everyone who didn’t like the Josh Hart trade.

    I would not add a sweetener to get rid of RJ, but I’d happily move him out for either neutral value or if he was part of a package for an upgrade.

    beal is a tough sell but the appeal is getting him without giving up any picks or anything of consequence… that gives you an ability to possibly upgrade other spots….

    so something like beal + og becomes a real possibility for the low low price of rj, iq and all of the non-knicks picks… we’d still have all our picks so you’d upgrade the roster without having to go all-in…. and provides some insurance in case it doesn’t go well….

    i still might not do that but i think it’s worth kicking the idea around and there are some instances where it can be worth it…

    I don’t believe I ever said we should add sweetener to get rid of RJ, much less made it the only thing I talked about.

    Katz also mentioned the Wizards’ own pick is uniquely valuable to them, since getting it back would un-Stepien them for the purposes of other trades. The only relevant question re: Beal is whether we should be willing to take him on for salary and that pick, because anything else is too much IMO.

    you can’t just throw out lineup data and give binary analysis

    Yeah that’s why I didn’t do that. I don’t think that data is super useful but it is better than asserting, based on absolutely nothing, that IQ and Brunson can’t work. Maybe they won’t, but the limited data we have doesn’t seem to suggest that.

    Katz also mentioned the Wizards’ own pick is uniquely valuable to them, since getting it back would un-Stepien them for the purposes of other trades. The only relevant question re: Beal is whether we should be willing to take him on for salary and that pick, because anything else is too much IMO.

    It’s just how much does he handicap you, cap/tax-wise, that makes it difficult to then make another move? That’s a huge worry for me, on top of him missing a lot of games over the last few years.

    Katz did make an interesting point with Macri about the salary thing: the cap generally rises about 10 percent a year, and is expected to keep doing so for a long time to come, but rises on max contracts only rise 8% a year. So some of these terrifying-sounding numbers we’re hearing, like the $62 million that KAT will make if he takes his player option, will actually be less onerous than the salary he’s making right now.

    Still don’t want a fugazi star, though.

    Katz did make an interesting point with Macri about the salary thing: the cap generally rises about 10 percent a year, and is expected to keep doing so for a long time to come, but rises on max contracts only rise 8% a year. So some of these terrifying-sounding numbers we’re hearing, like the $62 million that KAT will make if he takes his player option, will actually be less onerous than the salary he’s making right now.

    I mentioned something similar the last couple threads in regards to IQ & Hart.

    In the first year of IQs extension, $20M will be equivalent to about $16M from this past year while $25M will be about $20.

    But it’ll be cheaper in year 1 if it’s ascending or it’ll be a massive bargain by year 4 if it’s descending.

    I like LaVine. His offensive game is so good and can typically score at 3 levels. He has good size too and can pass. If his knee is healthy, I think he is the player I would go after. I think a potential starting lineup of JB, Lavine, Grimes, JR, and Mitch would be very good. Better outside shooting. Also, if the Bulls rebuild, what about DeMar? Or would DeMar take too many similar shots at the mid-range as our other players?

    On a scale of 1-10 :

    Mikal Bridges = 7
    OG Anunoby = 5
    RJ Barrett = 2

    So like I said, far from superstars. You don’t break the bank for this kind of players. RJ plus a 1st and a 2nd for Mikal and the Nets get to sell tickets as the team that fleeced the Knicks out of their young, budding superstar.

    Maybe they won’t, but the limited data we have doesn’t seem to suggest that.

    but lineup data doesn’t suggest anything… limited amount of data is worse than no data if you’re drawing too many conclusions from it…

    Bradley Beal is not going anywhere unless they treat it as a salary dump. The idiot GM that handed him that stupid contracts has already been fired. Who does Beal think he is, Ron Baker? – even Lebron coudn’t get a no trade clause. Only offer Leon should consider making for Beal is Obi, Fournier, Rose + Washington pick and hope Winger doesn’t actually accept it.

    Still more from Katz with Macri: Fred says the Knicks “know” they need to improve their shooting this offseason, and in a significant way rather than just picking up “another 3-and-D guy who’ll play 20 minutes” a night. But he’s also heard from around the league that, as of now, when teams have talked to them about acquiring Mitch — presumably in a trade for shooting — the Knicks have been adamant that he’s not moving. Fred says it could just be posturing, but if it’s not, by process of elimination, that has to mean they’re looking to move RJ or Julius.

    Still more from Katz with Macri: Fred says the Knicks “know” they need to improve their shooting this offseason, and in a significant way rather than just picking up “another 3-and-D guy who’ll play 20 minutes” a night

    I really hope this doesn’t lead to something stupid like let’s get Bradley Beal

    I want no part of Bradley Beal’s contract. I also think that if we are interested in more spacing it should be moving Randle not Robinson.

    KAT would be interesting, if you think Randle can’t hack it in the playoffs. He’d then make sense as priority #1. It’s a huge shooting upgrade.

    Note, KAT gets assisted on a much higher % of his shots from 2 & 3 than Randle. So that means the Knicks need more motion or RJ & Brunson to take on a bigger load. (Or maybe this is a statistical artifact of some sort). But having 3 ball dominant players wasn’t exactly ideal anyways.

    Wouldn’t be terrible to sell high on Randle either.

    Another note, LaVine has played ~3000 more minutes than KAT over the last 4yrs.

    Beal’s salary is a concern – his contract is similar to KAT and Levine in that he’s a low-level all star that got paid the Please Stay With Us Premium Reup. They ain’t Steph or LeBron, but the teams that inked them hoped they’d grow to be their version of said guys.
    I’m also looking at his 3ball %s. If you look at his first six seasons and split them from his last five, there’s a notable avg downtick. He’s got some good assist averages, and last year had a TS of .593.

    He’s a clear upgrade over Barrett, but you’d have to pay basically double RJ’s salary. And Beal is almost 30.

    Also, looking at these guys makes me feel much more appreciative of Randle’s contract. Is he really 13-16mil per year less of a player than those three? Not this past season, nor in 2020-21.

    RJ plus a 1st and a 2nd for Mikal

    Wouldn’t come close to getting it done. We would need at least 2 more picks, and FOR US, RIGHT NOW, Mikal would be worth it.

    And probably we’d need to do something more, like take Simmons off their hands, which, again, I think we should do.

    Man, reading that Katz piece on Beal makes me even more certain trading for him would be a disaster.

    I can’t say for certain that I’ve ever seen Bradley Beal play. If he was standing with 4 other Wizards teammates from the past 8 years I don’t think I’d be able to pick him out of a lineup.

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