Knicks Morning News (2023.05.22)

The problem with yesterday’s thread (okay, there were many, including someone taking up 30% of a 50-post section, or nearly a third of all posts, as if we needed to hear from him that frequently) is that there tend to be two cantankerous positions, neither of which are really sensible.

There’s the Swiftian position (amusing because Swift was a satirist) that we can run it back and who knows maybe win a chip.

Then there’s the purgatory mezzanine position (and yeah, the mezzanine is better because it has hot dogs and beer, but it’s still saying we’re stuck) where we will not get better, and likely get worse.

Neither position makes much sense. The first is not terribly likely, as nice as it sounds (I’m actually amenable to trying it as I love most of the players and the alternatives could be disastrous, so sayeth Knicks PTSD), and the second is incredibly myopic as of course we’re frozen in this moment of time, but all kinds of things will likely happen between this frozen moment and the start of next season. So saying “We’re here, and we always will be!” isn’t very useful.

Just some thoughts as we start a new day, or so I hope.

I’ve learnt never to dance on the Celtics’ grave…but I can’t help being in an excellent mood today.

Bernie, the Celtics are done. Their demeanor during the game, Mazzulla’s post-game comments, etc., all point to a team that has imploded. Maybe we get a pair of gentleman’s sweeps, but a Nuggets/Heat Finals is inevitable. First time in a while where I’d be content with either team winning the title.

Given how many teams with title aspirations have not only failed this spring, but failed in mortifying ways that all but demand huge changes, I of course am fascinated by the possibilities of the Knicks taking advantage of this. Macri’s newsletter today lays out all the reasons why Embiid to New York is incredibly unlikely — not least of which is that even if Morey has the stomach to deal him, Portland can send them a package, centered around the number 3 pick and Shaedon Sharpe, that would trump anything we could offer — and there are other players I just don’t want like Ayton or KAT. But there will be so much talent in play this summer that the Knicks should be able to get someone. I just hope it’s the right someone.

Which leads to a Question of the Day that will hopefully prevent a repeat of yesterday’s unreadable thread: Of all the players likely to be available in trade this summer (i.e., not Giannis, Taytum, Jokic, or Jimmy), whom would you most want the Knicks to pursue, regardless of the cost in players and picks?

So much craziness this post season, but the Celtics getting blown out by the 8 seed in a season defining game 3 definitely tops the list. Might have to drop in on the Celtics blog today. (-:

And what an intriguing off season this is gonna be, so much has changed in the last few weeks.

I do some work in the Boston area, so have a subscription to the Boston Globe. Today’s leading headline:

“Game 3 was a disgraceful performance by the once-proud Celtics. Even though it’s not over, don’t you want it to be?”

(smile emoji)

So now the made-up BS narrative has shifted to the Heat would have swept us if Jimmy Butler didn’t tweak his ankle…while ignoring that Randle, Brunson, IQ and Mitch were all injured…including Game 2 when both Randle and Brunson were questionable going into the game…

I just went back and read the commentary going into and early in the Knicks-Heat series. It’s pretty comical how all over the fucking place the purveyers of the above narrative were….

Z-man, everyone, I am begging you to leave yesterday’s arguments in yesterday’s thread. Nobody is going to convince the other side at this point, so it’s the same rhetoric comment after comment, day after day. There is actually new stuff to talk about. I swear.

Alan, I agree. It would be absolutely fantastic if the same posters didn’t feel to need to rehash the same 5 talking points in a million different ways. Or went back to their self-imposed 5-post limits because even THEY got tired of hearing themselves!

Let’s all move on.

Nice of our friendly neighborhood Knicks to take the potentials champions to 6 games.

Its all downhill from here unfortunately as we have no assets/young talent to trade and horrible contracts.

Of all the players likely to be available in trade this summer (i.e., not Giannis, Taytum, Jokic, or Jimmy), whom would you most want the Knicks to pursue, regardless of the cost in players and picks?

Sorry Alan, I can’t answer.

We don’t really know who’s available and, maybe more important, to me the cost in players and picks is the main factor in every trade, I’ll never do a trade “regardless” of the cost, not even for Jokic or Giannis.

So maybe my answer is “no one”? 😀

(nah, for the right price I have some, probably unlikely, targets 😉 )

I was about to say the same thing Max just did. No one. The price matters. You shouldn’t pursue a player
”regardless of the cost in players and picks?”

Alan, since you have taken Joel out of the equation, here is my top 5 list. Ranking purely on who I would want to see in the Orange and Blue, in other words, not factoring that some players may cost more in assets than others or that we might be a better trading partner fit for some teams:

1. SGA (I know likely unavailable but who knows?)
2. Booker
3. Mikal (I don’t see why there has to be a blanket prohibition on trading with us, if for example it helps them land Dame)
4. PG
5. Jaylen Brown

And those are the only ones where I would feel comfortable going for broke. I would not pursue Dame, Zach, Beal, KAT, or Kawhi–the first 4 because I don’t think they are the missing piece and Kawhi because I don’t think you can rely on him being healthy for a deep playoff run.

EDIT. Replying to Max. I assume any of the above would cost many draft picks and 2 of IQ, RJ,Obi, or Mitch. I could live with that.

Okay, fine. You guys are no fun. Let me rephrase:

What player who might actually be available in trade this summer would you most want the Knicks to pursue, assuming the price is not crippling?

Alan, if price is no concern, I’d say Mikal Bridges. It’s not going to happen for all the reasons previously posted, but he brings exactly the multiple scoring capabilities, the defensive acumen, and the athleticism that we want our current small forward to exhibit except he doesn’t/can’t. For the team we currently have (minus that guy), he’d be the best fit outside of the superstars you mention.

My big issue with the mezzanine purgatory position is that it reeks of goal post moving.

For years on this blog purgatory was defined as barely missing the playoffs or being a low seed that loses in the first round with a team full of vets.

Now the Knicks are young, good, won a playoff series, competed reasonably well in the second round against a team that’s going to go to the Finals, has draft capital and all good contracts (for the most part) and suddenly it’s “we’re now in mezzanine purgatory.” It’s complete and utter bullshit created by certain posters who can’t admit how wrong they were about Leon, Thibs and this team and now want to move the goalposts.

Only one team wins a title. By this new definition basically every team that doesn’t win a title is stuck in purgatory.

Just admit you were wrong and you don’t know everything about team building and that you’re preferred tear it all down and tank method isn’t the only way to build a contender. Just be fucking happy that the knicks are good and humble that you don’t know everything. It’s ok, I swear. I’ve been wrong on so many things for so many years on this blog.

Before the playoffs, my ideal trade would have been one that sent RJ plus a “reasonable” amount of stuff to Toronto for OG Anunoby. But a) RJ showed some really good stuff in the playoffs and b) Ujiri is not the guy you want to set the price, and there will definitely be competition.

Kawhi has too much wear and tear on that knee. Pass. Paul George? Injury concerns too.

I dunno, seems like we should sit back and see what teams that underachieved this year are willing to do, in either direction. Maybe someone makes a stoopid offer for IQ or RJ.

Another Subject of the Day: Melo officially retired.

https://twitter.com/carmeloanthony/status/1660639136242343936

Such a strange career for a guy who will go into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot. Spent about one season more with Denver than with us, but his legacy will largely be viewed through a New York lens, as the Nuggets fans resent how his tenure there ended, while there’s a whole generation of Knicks fandom who blindly adore Melo and don’t consider any of the failures of his tenure here to be his fault. Hell of a scorer who was nonetheless not especially fun to watch play by the time he got here, had an overinflated sense of his abilities relative to the genuinely elite players in the league, refused to play the position to which he was best suited, engineered a disastrous trade here rather than waiting for free agency, etc. Outside of the 12-13 season, I enjoyed almost none of his time here, but the guy was a bucket.

What would his legacy be like if he’d either stayed in Denver much longer, or at least waited to be a FA in 2011 and joined a much deeper Knicks roster? For that matter, what would a Knicks roster with Melo, Amar’e, Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, et al have even looked/played like?

Swifty, I am also begging you to stop. You are not going to get a concession from the others. They are not going to get a concession from you. We’ve been round and round and round on this. It makes the comments as much fun to read as it was to watch Melo jab step for 17 seconds out of a 24-second possession.

OK, I will. I promise!

I think we should go after someone we can get for Fournier plus 2 or 3 first round picks.

Keep everyone on the team. Have everyone work on their 3 point shooting. Mitch on his free throws and a couple of post moves, mid range shot. Work on the team offense so there’s more ball sharing and less standing around.

Continuity and team building is so underrated in this league. Look at the Heat though. We should continue to look to them as our ideal. The price for stars or pseudo stars is too high right now and this season proved that when those stars are traded, the team that trades for them almost always regrets it.

If not trade like the one I mentioned above is available, keep this team and sign Alex Burks for one year off the bench.

We could use a little more ball handling in the lineup. Aside from injuries and nobody making a shot turnovers were a real problem for us against Miami

Regarding Melo, I don’t think his legacy would be that much different if he stayed in Denver or came to us via FA–ie, fantastic player, very good career, could have been better. All of his “flaws” stemmed from him refusing to evolve his game for the ultimate benefit of the team, and god knows he had the physical gifts to evolve.

@Alan

Re: Melo

Great talent, walking bucket, wrong basketball models, poor self awareness and one of the great “what if”.

He had all the tools (in his prime, when engaged, he was a stout defender, a very good rebounder and a brilliant passer) but lacked the instruction manual…

Re: The Knicks with Melo but without the Melo Trade

Don’t forget Mozgov! 🙂

Perennial Top-4 in the East.
The Heaties would have sweat more to get out of our side of the bracket…

You may be right, Bernie. But he was in a great situation in Denver where they could have gone on another run at some point. And then the way he engineered his way to New York left the team in a huge asset hole that our various incompetent executives kept making worse in a futile attempt to compete for a title with a guy who could only be the top option on a contending team if the roster was way deeper than he ever had.

The reason so much discussion on the internet is so toxic and the perception is that it’s so polarizing is that most people will only engage on the things that trigger them for some reason… it’s readily apparent here when there’s so many who will call someone a troll but still engage with them anyway…. when you do that they’re not really trolls… that’s just some word you use to label people so you feel comfortable in your position…

there’s also this overwhelming need to have everyone agree with them… sometimes it’s insecurity… most people feel the need for others to validate…. and a lot of times it’s both… this is how mobs operate and how most online communities covering controversial topics devolve.. if you can’t argue the merits you appeal to authority or the crowds…

i think this blog has done better than most but generally there’s this toxic need to have everyone on one side…. and there’s no room for disagreement…. because for the most part people handle disagreement not very well.. here or anywhere…. from mvp debates… about election forecasts… to the age old toxic topic of politics… nobody is going to convnce anyone of anything because the internet has armed people with their own universe of facts and pretend-facts that they can always feel comfort when their world gets threatened….

and if you can accept that…. then you can accept that people will disagree with you.. and then move onto actually understanding the other position… which there’s also very little going on here…. and i know that there’s very little because nobody actually asks each other questions… and when you disagree that’s when you should be asking the most questions…. it’s not a discussion forum in the sense that it’s a soapbox forum…

the good news is that you can change that… you don’t even have to change topics for temporary reprieves.. we can have healthy discussions about tough topics in adult ways… i bet many of you guys do this all the time when you’re in this weird thing called real life… i know this because tough topics with even strangers go incredibly well… and i bet a lot of it has to do with teh demographic that’s chronically online but for whatever reason even normal people think that a screen between them gives them a license to act completely differently….

you don’t have to….

Yeah Leon is in a tough position because it would be very easy to give up multiple good players/picks for the wrong guy. I know they were free agents, but look at the Kemba/Fournier offseason. And trades are even trickier because you’re giving up real players/assets not just cap space.

I agree with Katz that Paul George would be a great fit on this team, but they aren’t going to move him and the price would likely be too steep.

Maybe things will change, but I don’t see a star trade out there as of now. Maybe one of the Chicago guys if they blow it up. Maybe OG? But neither of those will move the needle much IMO and will cost us our depth.

On the flip side, if we were going to move anyone, Randle seems the most likely because of his age, consistency issues, and lack of defense. But you’d have to get enough promising young players back to make the deal worth it, and I don’t think anyone wants Randle that badly. Maybe Wiggins/Moody and a late 1st for Randle and Fournier? I don’t think you can do better than that.

Another aspect of the “what if we had gotten Melo in FA and not via trade” that I often wondered about is Deron Williams, who was traded the day after Melo. I think we may very well have traded for him, having to top the Nets offer and lose a couple of players and draft picks. If we still were able to grab Melo in FA (fixing whatever cap issues needed to be fixed) I have no idea what a potentially threadbare Melo/Williams led team would have accomplished.

Signing Melo got us ruru and you have to look at that.

It is fascinating to me how many younger Knicks fans absolutely adore Melo.

ess-dog, I think the Randle vs Barrett conundrum was well articulated a few days ago by somebody, I forget who, saying that RJ makes more sense to move because: 1)Even though he’s not as good as Randle (and, I would argue, unlikely to ever be as good), he’s a less complicated fit with other teams and thus easier to trade; and 2)Because RJ is still young with theoretical room to grow, you will more easily be able to send him to a rebuilding team that will give you back good veterans who can help immediately, whereas Julius has no value to the bottom-feeders, while any contending team he can help wouldn’t be able to send back win-now assets.

There is certainly some kind of challenge trade scenario that could involve Julius being sent out for veteran help — once upon a time, I imagine he and Sabonis could have been the centerpieces of a deal with Indy, even though Sacramento wouldn’t swap one for the other now — but the path is much narrower for that.

Given what happened to Williams with the Nets, we were certainly better off having acquired Melo, as much as I disliked most of the Melo era. Unless you think Deron imploded specifically because he was on the Nets?

Melo came into the league at the wrong time…. he came in towards the end of teh Jordan and then Kobe eras where isolation scoring was too prioritized and then the league transformed moved away to prioritizing 3s…. it’s not a coincidence that his best years came when he was playing mostly as a 4….

if he came in 10 years earlier he’d have been way too quick and skillful for most of those SFs and i think if he came in 10 years later… he’d be deployed much more efficiently as a 4 that can iso… which if you look at today’s rosters… a lot of teams would have a lot of trouble with that…

ultimately he was a good but flawed player that needed the right environment and whether it was time or his own ego.. he couldn’t make that happen…

The problem with moving Randle, and while I like the guy he’s enraging to watch (like Melo, if different) and may put a ceiling on this team, is that it would leave a gaping hole. Between the usage, points, and rebounding, I don’t know how we make that up.

I just looked at the list of free agent power forwards and it’s Draymond, KP, and Jerami Grant. All big steps down and/or terrible fits. Then it’s Harrison Barnes to Grant Williams and so on. Ugh.

We need to improve our 3-pt shooting. Maybe, Grimes and IQ level up to the point where teams will get punished for building a wall in front of JB as the Heat did. Mikal Bridges seems to be a great fit, but at what cost? If the cost is to high, maybe take a flyer on Dorian Finney Smith, who while not a lights out 3 pt shooter also defends well.

There’s trolls and there’s trolls who do backflips to defend trolls….

None of the guys on Bernie’s list really excite me other than SGA and to a degree Mikal. All of them have either too much age, too many warts, or a combination thereof.(*)

I’d get excited if they got Embiid, but he’s come up small in the playoffs too much for comfort and is always getting some kind of nick that limits his playoff effectiveness.

I’d rather use assets to get a Scoot or something similar.

(*) One can’t help but recall here the money question I asked in the Spida Chronicles — “if Utah wants to get rid of him so bad and his team’s whiffed four straight years in the playoffs, why do I want him?” This spot-on, obvious question was of course denominated “trolling” and whatnot for reasons along the line of djphan’s insightful remarks on internet process and factionalism.

Z-Man’s continuing obsessions ….

Satire and humor are timeless forms of communication, including of ideas. I’m not sacrificing them for a bunch of internet whiners.(*)

In that vein, that “BOSTON CELTICS, 2022-23 SRS CHAMPIONS” banner is gonna look bitchin’ up in the TD Garden rafters.

(*) “Teams don’t target SRS”– “trolling.”

“What a shame we traded for Josh Hart” one game into the postseason — jus’ friends.

I think not.

Melo was never suited to be the #1 of a championship team, i.e to be the “brain” and “heart” of the team. Nice guy, great scorer, not a leader.

He shot his hope for a Knicks championship to hell when he chose not to be patient and wait to become a free agent in an uncertain atmosphere of collective bargaining. If the Knicks didn’t have to gut the team to acquire him a few months later, there would have been a much better chance of hanging a banner or two…although far from a certainty given that they would still have had to get through LeBron and the Heat.

Still, there were a lot of great regular season moments and a couple of playoff ones. No ill will here, just a lack of reverence.

I think PG-13 would fit great on this team.

Good riddance to Melo.

The answers for a total all-in trade are Giannis and Jokic. Not to say a deal for either is reasonable or that we’d be better off stripping down in year 1. But those are the guys I would feel comfortable with for the next five years. Captain Obvious I know.

Still in shock about the Celtics.

And feeling mildly uncomfortable with the degree to which I enjoyed last night relative to the degree i enjoy a Knicks playoff win.

The moves this offseason are still to get a new coach, modernize the offense and defense, get rid of the old-NBA types, and proceed accordingly.

While I’m not crazy about most of the players on Bernie’s list, they at least all play a modern style and can be adequately deployed in a modern style.

You were never going to be able to win anything with Melo because he didn’t have the game or temperament to be able to function with the second star his limitations forced you to get. Basically Allen Iverson syndrome.

Celtics never scared me in the least, said it multiple times. Joe Mazzulla needs to learn the principle that self-deprecation really doesn’t work if you’re actually mediocre.

Between the usage, points, and rebounding, I don’t know how we make that up.

This is definitely something I considered, but we undoubtedly need better passing, 3pt shooting, and defense from Randle’s position. Even at his absolute best, he’s a pretty inefficient player. And as bad as RJ has been, at least he defends decently and has room to improve.

That said, I agree that RJ is more tradeable as a switchable wing, even with his woeful shooting, because he’s still young.

But the Mitch/Randle combo is still a problem if Randle can’t become at least an average 3pt shooter. It seems obvious that Randle is much better in the midrange and would work better next to a stretch 5, which are hard to come by.

So then you’re talking about trading Mitch to ease the fit for Randle, which seems dumb given Randle’s age versus Mitch’s.

In this league, there is an age cliff that is best to avoid.

What’s the over-under on how many times E will raise the same 5 talking points between now and October?

E, all merc’d outsays:
September 30, 2022 at 13:13
Fanduel sportsbook has Knicks over 38.5 wins right now at only -105. Basically a nothingburger house vig. (*). That’s the easiest money imaginable for Team Optimism. Any of them going to take it?

E, all merc’d outsays:
September 30, 2022 at 17:45
I wouldn’t take the under or the over. The line is just about right and it would just be a coin flip for me and it’s pointless to bet coin flips.

lol, it was easy money, thank you

I just hope this FO stays fairly patient. The last time this FO was in this situation they made a bunch of not killer but bad in the aggregate win now moves and had to pay to undue them a year later.

Without spending a half hour on Spotrac studying the Knicks cap sheet at the start of the 2010-11 season, and what it would have been had they not made the Melo trade, let’s pretend they could have just signed Melo in the summer of 2011 and kept all the other pieces on the team, that they still drafted Shumpert (as opposed to having 2020 hindsight and taking Jimmy Butler, or even Tobias Harris), the roster could have looked like this:

PF: Amare Stoudemire, Anthony Randolph

SF: Carmelo Anthony, Danilo Gallinari,

C: Timofey Mozgov, Ronny Turiaf, Eddy Curry

SG: Landry Fields, Wilson Chandler

PG: Raymond Felton, Iman Shumpert, Toney Douglas

It’s a waste of Gallo (who would probably have backed up both forward spots), Stat would still have his injury concerns, and we’d be solid but not great at center, SG, and PG. But that’s a really deep team, and we could have used the spare parts to do an upgrade on top of acquiring Melo. Probably still not a title team, but way better, and with a chance of making a run with one or two other smart moves.

I just hope this FO stays fairly patient. The last time this FO was in this situation they made a bunch of not killer but bad in the aggregate win now moves and had to pay to undue them a year later.

Yup. Imagine if we didn’t have to pay to unload Noel, Burks, and Kemba, and could have just drafted Jalen Williams or Tari Eason or whomever. The Rose administration seems capable of learning from its mistakes, but we’re now at a stage of the win curve where the mistakes can hurt a whole lot more if they keep making them.

Ess-dog, yeah dumping Randle would make sense but there’s no obvious patch to the hole. Ditto moving Mich for the reason you posit, but there goes our defensive stopper that covers a plenitude of faults and THAT’S hard to impossible to make up. Especially with the rest of our front line acting like turnstiles.

I do take a different opinion of RJ on defense. Yes he mostly tries, but he’s slow and often out of position and usually blown by. Randle is actually much better in my book when he’s focused, but doesn’t even try half the time. Hence the importance of Mitch.

I’ve been burned by RJ too often to think playoff RJ is anything more than lipstick on a pig. And he was still burned on D more than he should have been.

I’d run him back on a wing (such as it is) and a prayer given that we’re not getting Mikal or OG, and you know SOME day he’ll turn that ol’ corner. But he’s the player I think is most expendable on this team, especially as he’d bring something back, most likely.

Zion should go on the list, too. I’d be excited to get him. He’s probably gettable.

RJ actually played excellent defense in the playoffs — which helped lead the Knicks to the best DRat in the 2023 postseason. The strange and inexplicable bias against him during the regular season has obviously bled into the playoffs and now the offseason.

General principle: If you look hard enough for something, eventually you’ll be able to find it.

He’s nothing close to untouchable, but neither is he anything close to the Knickerblogger caricature. The Knickerblogger caricature of him is actually kind of weird.

This is definitely something I considered, but we undoubtedly need better passing, 3pt shooting, and defense from Randle’s position.

Randle does things well.. but this is the problem when you rely on a PF… many teams have ran into this issue with the likes of barkley.. malone.. webber… griffin….

the areas in the court that they operate in and how they get there is very limited… especialy when you have a big taking up some of that space also…. which is why brown just moved sabonis to center…

the good news is that randle is more skilled in some ways than some of those since he has range on his 3pt shot… the bad news is that he takes too many pullups and doesn’t have nearly the same midrange games as those…

and so we need an offense that gets Randle to operate better in the midrange… where he’s not strong in… and something this offense does not want to do… it runs antithesis to the whole modern era of offense but in the playoffs where defenses get tougher all that gets thrown out the window and you’re not going to get the shot you want so you have to be able to hit shots you need….

if we don’t make any changes it’s a good probability that randle regresses anyway… and moving some shots out to the midrange might be a net negative but it’s a lot harder to stop….

The Melo trade knocked me off this blog for a few years and put a serious damper on my Knicks enthusiasm. You want to talk about “mezzanine” moves, that was the ne plus ultra. Signing Tyson kept me in the fold, but it was touch and go there.

You can’t win with Randle in any kind of significant role in the playoffs. It’s time to move on. I’m not remotely afraid of any kind of risk of “what he might turn into on another team.”

This one was also predicted long in advance; it’s not a second-guess, it’s a first guess. I’m sure it too suffered the slings and arrows of fortune and the oh-so-witty-and-adult “troll” moniker.

You don’t *have* to dump him for dreck, but neither are you going to win anything with him. That’s what happens when you sign players from the mezzanine aisle. Tough dilemma. Maybe the Pelis would take him back in a Zion deal, but I doubt it.

I still think the real crime of the Melo era was not dumping Stat when we had the chance. He was a very fun player but he meshed terribly with Melo and it was obvious by the time the amnesty was available he was going to be a huge injury risk going forward.

What I think we should do this offseason —

1) Trade Randle – he has successfully rehabilitated his value to the point he’s probably a positive asset on his contract. I applaud him having a strong year, and 3rd team All-NBA is no joke. But I don’t think you can have a player with his obvious attitude/mental issues on a championship team — certainly not as one of the so-called leaders. His shooting is not good enough to be a plug-and-play guy on offense – you are sort of stuck having to do a little bit of your-turn-my-turn offense with him on the floor, which makes little sense since most of the time you would just want Brunson to be the guy with the ball. The combo of him/RJ/Brunson probably has a 2nd round ceiling unless one of RJ or Randle really ups his 3P%. I wouldn’t bet on that happening though.

I think you could move Randle in a deal similar to Sabonis – to a team that isn’t trying to win a title but just to be relevant again. Depending on who the Wizards hire as GM, that might be a reasonable spot. With Charlotte probably getting Miles Bridges back, I doubt they would want Randle.

Honestly – he wouldn’t be terrible in Dallas, and 3D chess move might be to send him there, have him sabotage the playoffs, then have Luka ask out.

Does anyone have any appetite for bringing back Porzingis? I actually think he would fit great.

I advocated trading Randle for Porzingis two trading deadlines ago — of course to various scoffs and catcalls and then eventually and laughably Porzingis was deemed to have been “salary dumped.”

I’d take him back in a heartbeat. Big health worry though, unfortunately. He’d have to be load managed and kept healthy for the playoffs and I’m not sure the current administration is into that. I bet he’d like to come back, too. Probably won’t happen though.

TS% .627 on over 27 USG. 385 from downtown. Guy’s a stud.

It is fascinating to me how many younger Knicks fans absolutely adore Melo.

I was at my friend’s house the other day and his 9 year old son told me his favorite basketball player was D’Angelo Russell. I was like “what’s wrong with your kid?”. It turned out he had just been to a Lakers playoff game where D’Angelo Russell had scored a bunch of first half points. Tube takeaway is that kids don’t like what adults like. They don’t give a shit about BPM or efficiency ratings. They just like seeing the ball go in the fucking basket.

I do take a different opinion of RJ on defense. Yes he mostly tries, but he’s slow and often out of position and usually blown by. Randle is actually much better in my book when he’s focused, but doesn’t even try half the time. Hence the importance of Mitch.

I agree Raven,
but maybe this is why we’d probably better dangling Randle and RJ this offseason?*

Can we take the next step with our three “best players” being 2 below average defenders (for different reasons) plus Brunson (who at least always try…)?

* I’m against trading for the sake of trade, but still, let’s see if anyone bit the bait no?

Although we didn’t reach the levels we hoped, i don’t regret the Melo era with the Knicks. At least he restored hope in the fanbase, hope that we could go far in the playoffs, the title seemed out of our reach but the ECF seemed achievable, and with some luck maybe go to the finals. Of course, now that we know the 2nd round was the peak of that era, we don’t talk about it so fondly, but i try to remember us filled with hope in 2012-13, and that memory is enough to not regret those times. Also it was not only Melo the main culprit for the shortcomings of those teams, the front-office helped a lot in that regard. And Melo was a great player, a little hard to watch, like Harden, but a really great player. He looks like a nice guy that loves the Knicks, the way he was celebrating the team winning against the Cavs filled my heart. So long, Melo, and good luck on your future endeavors.

E, all merc’d outsays:
September 7, 2022 at 10:18
Isiah had several individual moments of success. The current regime hasn’t done anything close to as worthy as, say, David Lee at 30.

E, all merc’d outsays:
September 8, 2022 at 07:59
Answer: Cam Reddish

********************

I can see the logic behind this. Reddish is really the only guy on the roster with the size and athleticism that superstars tend to have, and he has a ton of skill. They should clearly try to play and develop him.

Reddish tops out at a 1; RJ as a 1A. It’s way more likely RJ becomes a 1A, though.

E, all merc’d outsays:
September 8, 2022 at 08:01
Grimes wasn’t even the best pick in his slot, much less a proper substitute for a high lottery pick. Bones Hyland would have been way better.

ahahaha

So the idea is to trade the 4 BPM guy in hopes that the -3 BPM guy becomes a 4 BPM guy.

What could possibly go wrong

The Knicks still should have kept and developed Cam Reddish. Bizarre that that’s seen as some kind of “L.”

Nor is Grimes even close to a substitute for a high lottery pick.

I’m fine with the comments.

Trade a healthy 3rd team all NBA player for a guy who literally is injured every year and also came up short in the playoffs multiple times.

What an idiotic idea.

Counterpoint: Cam Reddish is ass

I guess we’re back on the “Julius Randle is better than Zion Williamson” train today.

Counterpoint: Cam Reddish is ass

He indeed might wind up being ass. Doesn’t bother me. Still worth a swing.

Somebody must have said Quentin Grimes was akin to a high lottery pick, but nobody’s ever been over their skis about him, no sirree, no never.

Fundamentally, the Knicks weren’t and aren’t in a place where they should be giving a bunch of minutes to low-ceiling “hustlebunnies.” Or mezzanine aisle guys. Not much more to say about it than that, and I’ll hang up and listen for awhile.

I was at my friend’s house the other day and his 9 year old son told me his favorite basketball player was D’Angelo Russell. I was like “what’s wrong with your kid?”. It turned out he had just been to a Lakers playoff game where D’Angelo Russell had scored a bunch of first half points. Tube takeaway is that kids don’t like what adults like. They don’t give a shit about BPM or efficiency ratings. They just like seeing the ball go in the fucking basket.

I was talking more about young adults, people in their mid-late 20s. I guess it’s just who they enjoyed watching as a kid, and it’s the guy who scored all the points.

What about Cam Reddish makes him a good prospect compared to any other lottery bust of the past several years? All I see is a guy who doesn’t really do anything well. Low basketball IQ, is allergic to rebounds, plays soft, prone to severe mental lapses, turns the ball over a lot.

I think you just like him because Tom Thibodeau didn’t like him. There is nothing in his stat line that says “prospect” and he’s even worse by the eye test.

What the Melo era showed us is what happens when you hitch your wagon to the wrong guy. I really liked Melo, but the original sin was Melo thinking he was so good that it didn’t matter who was on his team –> ergo the last minute leverage play on Dolan (by bringing the Nets in) to give up everything so that he could get every last dollar (we shouldn’t forget Leon Rose was the one who negotiated that!). Multiple assets thrown away that could’ve been kept.

Then (amongst other things) basically sabotaging Jeremy Lin’s contract negotiations, thereby losing another asset for nothing.

Refusing to play the 4 until forced to.

etc etc

Brunson seems like the right guy to hitch your wagon to. Randle is not. Randle is a good player but does not have a championship mentality. I am definitely sympathetic re: whatever mental health issues he may or may not have, but I am not sure that at age 28+ that he is going to find the answer in time to make it matter for this team. seriously, what % chance would you guys give it that he has another great season in 23-24 as opposed to a rerun of the disastrous 21-22 season?

(and by the way, I would be fully fine with trading RJ also)

Okay, fine. You guys are no fun. Let me rephrase:

What player who might actually be available in trade this summer would you most want the Knicks to pursue, assuming the price is not crippling?

For me, the ideal scenario would be a trade around RJ, Fournier Picks for…

1. Mikal Bridges: Unlikely, because Nets seemingly will rebuild around him
2. Paul George: An injury concern, but a great fit if healthy.
3. OG Anunoby: Lower ceiling, injury concern, but good fit
4. Jaylen Brown: I have always been skeptical of him, but he might be available and “good enough” to round this team
5. Bogdan Bogdanovic: He should have a lower cost, but would be good as a secondary playmaker and a threat from deep.

Kawhi is too much of an injury risk, and brings a lot of attention to himself. Zach Lavine is an injury risk while not being as good fit as the other ones i listed. Beal has cap-destroying contract that I would only consider if he costs next to nothing in terms of draft capital. I dont consider we can get SGA. DeMar is more of a PF these days and does not solve spacing issues. Bojan Bogdanovic is too old, I think. Trading RJ for the original Wiggins would be an improvement, but I would only do it if it costs next to nothing in terms of draft picks. Ingram would be a good one, but I don’t think NO will trade him.

What about Cam Johnson? I guess we’re too capped out to sign him?

I’m really fascinated by Miami’s run here and the model they have — sort of similar to the Warriors —

1. Defense-breaker –> Jimmy, Steph
2. Jack of all-trades defensive big –> Bam, Draymond – anchor the defense, have enough skill to bring opposing centers out of the paint when on offense
3. Tons of shooting around that, with guys that generally speaking are not obviously target-able on defense (Duncan Robinson notwithstanding – but at least Robinson is tall).

We have a defense breaker in Brunson
We have maybe a poor man’s version of Bam/Draymond in Hartenstein
We have almost no shooting
We also don’t have a coach that is nearly as creative as Kerr/Spo.

He indeed might wind up being ass. Doesn’t bother me. Still worth a swing.

People in this blog have been saying that Cam Reddish is ass since before he was drafted. At that time, you could argue he is worth “a swing”, but not now. He is in Frank Ntilikina’s career territory, the time for believing he will turn it around has passed.

by the way I would be 100% into re-signing Alec Burks, depending on whose spot in the rotation he takes. we all had issues with Burks last season, but that was because he was put into a role that was way too big for him. But as a 6th/7th man who is big enough on D, can shoot/ballhandle a bit — he’s great.

What if the offseason brought something like Paul George for RJ/Quickley + filler + 2 picks and then we signed Burks with some exception?

Starting lineup would be Brunson/Grimes/PG/Randle/Mitch
rest of rotation = Burks/Hart/Obi/Hartenstein

We’d obviously greatly miss Quickley, but that’s a freaking great team.

(I doubt the Clips would ever trade PG though)

If we could ever trade Randle for Porzingis somehow and then have the ability to put KP at center with Brunson/Grimes/PG/Hart — that would be an amazing offensive lineup

What about Cam Johnson? I guess we’re too capped out to sign him?

For my scenario of replacing RJ, I think he is more of a PF than a SF, and although he might be able to play at SF, I don’t think he has the defensive versatility to make it work with our team.

PG is still a terrific player but there’s no way you can count on him to be on the court in the playoffs.

Man, just looking at Jimmy Butler’s stats… who the hell gets significantly BETTER when he hits 30?? He is just a different animal altogether. Sadly, there are not many Jimmy Butlers available ever.

E pretending the “bias” against RJ Barrett only exists on Knickerblogger would be a hilarious bit if it wasn’t so insufferable.

Go to any other Knicks blog, or listen to any NBA podcast, or consume literally any NBA media at all. When RJ Barrett comes up, there are people who cite his inefficiency on offense and inconsistency on defense through four seasons as reasons they’re not high on him.

You may disagree with them and that’s fine. There are reasons to think RJ might get better and reasonable people can disagree on the extent to which they’re compelling.

But for the love of god you need to drop the brave truth teller act in this context and for that matter all others. The guy will have doubters as long as he fails to put up a TS+ of ninety fuckin’ five, forget 100, over the course of a full season.

“I still think the real crime of the Melo era was not dumping Stat when we had the chance. He was a very fun player but he meshed terribly with Melo and it was obvious by the time the amnesty was available he was going to be a huge injury risk going forward.”

I doubt that a FO dumb enough to make the Melo trade and sign Amare to a long max deal would have considered making this cold-blooded move. And amnestying Billups led to the Chandler acquisition, which folks here loved at the time…remember the whole MTA thing?

It was third-rate desperation GMing with Dolan’s starfucking meddling acting as a roadblock to any rational teambuilding strategy. Melo was a fine piece, just not in the context of the reality of the situation with Dolan.

The other argument is that the Brunson/Randle combo is enough on offense so just surround them with 3-and-D guys. This is probably the easiest/safest path for Leon to tread. It would just involve trading RJ for a 3-and-D wing while getting a few more for the bench by dangling Obi. This probably isn’t a Chip winner, but it safely puts you on playoff runs for another few years at least.

EDIT: in which case, Cam Johnson is probably the guy you want.

@FredKatz
My favorite Carmelo Anthony memory will always be the time he spent 20 minutes before a game trying to convince me that Joe DiMaggio was Jewish.

This is the biggest smile Carmelo Anthony has ever given me.

KP isn’t the right guy.. at least to replace randle.. you might be able to get away with him replacing mitch….

he’s still too reliant on others creating for him (62% assisted 2pfg)…. and thibs offense requires you to iso a fair bit if you’re not playing the reggie bullock role or the defensive C role….

so KP on the knicks is going to look a lot like KP on the mavs or thibs having towns… it might work out ok durign the reg season but he will disppear in the playoffs anyway because he cannot create his own shot and he will be expected to… that was the whole issue on the mavs…

the solution to that is to run a lot more two man action.. and a general overhaul of the offense…. but you can probably run that with randle also… if we don’t expect the offense to change then you just need a guy who iso’s better than who is currently here…

Also, we should go after DiVincenzo and/or Kenrich Williams for the bench.

If we could sign KP for Mitch money, sure, go for it!

As a Randle salary dump? I’d way rather hope that Randle carries his regular season renaissance into the playoffs. I’ve seen a bunch of guys overcome the playoff choke artist label to be totally out on the possibility. And he’s durable and regular season seeding is still important.

It’s hard for me to look back at the Melo era fondly even if I have nothing personal against the guy. Out of seven possible seasons there was exactly one (2012-2013) in which we could reasonably be described as even fringe contenders, and even then the word “fringe” was doing a lot of work.

A lot of fans in my generation do hold Melo in pretty high esteem, I guess because it was the first time in our lives (not literally, but since we were ~5) the Knicks were relevant in any sense of the word. I guess that just didn’t do much for me. Those seasons felt like actual purgatory (0% chance at a title, 0% chance at a high pick, pretty old roster) as opposed to the silly definition some folks throw around now. Phil Jackson didn’t help.

As far as the biggest regret of that era, the trade itself, not amnestying STAT, and not matching the Lin offer sheet all standout, but I have one that trumps them all if I’m remembering it correctly: I could swear that in the 2014 offseason when Melo was a free agent there was some chatter that the Bulls were willing to include one Jimmy Butler in a sign-and-trade…

Somehow I think that in the next few years there’s a real possibility either Giannis or Doncic is going to wind up in a Knicks uniform. It may be a pipe dream, sort of like the recurrent dream that Ainge had of signing AD, but at the very least, the Knicks are cool again.

There was no reason to trade Gallo for Melo. Gallo was arguably the better player and certainly the better contract and anyone who doesn’t believe it should check Denver’s record with Gallo until he blew his knee out.

Signing Amare was a disaster you can’t blame Melo for. I would argue that the Tyson acquisition completely salvaged Melo’s tenure here. If we hadn’t gotten him it would have been an abject failure. As it was, while it sucked, we got one playoff run out of it.

But I hope we have moved on from the kind of thinking that led to that trade.

And I would do a deal for Luka too.

“I could swear that in the 2014 offseason when Melo was a free agent there was some chatter that the Bulls were willing to include one Jimmy Butler in a sign-and-trade…”

lol Butler would never have survived the Phil’s Head Shop days…

I’m tempted to say that we’re playing in the ECFs right now if we kept Alec Burks and salary dumped Cam Reddish’s sorry ass instead, but he still makes me a little queasy as a target with the full MLE unless it’s a 1 or 2 year deal.

He’s at an age where non-elite players can fall off pretty quickly. I’m definitely interested in a reunion in general because he brings a lot to the table (i.e. shotmaking) that we need, but I could see a 4/$60M deal aging poorly.

I also don’t blame Melo for making the same kinds of business decisions that Patrick Ewing made before him. It’s perfectly fine for players to sell their legacy for a few extra tens of millions.

But when they do that and come up short, they should be self-aware to know that their prioritizing of maximizing income over winning championships, even if only marginally, had a hand in it.

A lot of fans in my generation do hold Melo in pretty high esteem, I guess because it was the first time in our lives (not literally, but since we were ~5) the Knicks were relevant in any sense of the word.

Melo’s enduring popularity among a younger generation is definitely an effective counter-argument to the idea of NY fans being fine with a rebuild if we can just watch the kids grow up in front of us. The trade took away all our young prospects save for Fields, who turned into a pumpkin either through injury or the Plexiglass Principle. Thanks to a series of terrible short-sighted trades, prior to KP the only young guys we had were role player types like Shump and TH2 (or guys who turned out to not even be that, like Jerian Grant), plus those few weeks of Linsanity. These were vet-heavy teams, designed to make the playoffs but not built for much more than that. Medium floor, low ceiling, not aesthetically pleasing outside of 2012-13. Yet they freaking love Melo because he made the playoffs several times.

Hard no on KP. Because of the hair.

i’m pretty surprised at how much people like paul george especially in relation to zach lavine….

bpm last 4 seasons
age 29 – 4.9
30 – 4.2
31- 3.7
32 – 2.8

all without playing more than 56 games in any of those years… george is in … likely.. terminal decline.. and while he probably could have a better swan song in his twilight by retooling into a lower usg role…. the paul george you’re likely anchoring on… is long gone…

I never begrudged Melo for having a different take on how to build an NBA career than we did. He never complained about the teams the Knicks put around him, because he knew that he was responsible for it (and partially because his ego couldn’t say “I need help”). Had he done that, I would have given him shit, but he never did, so he was cool in my book. I hated the deal for him, and the mega max, but that wasn’t his fault.

The fatal flaw of the Melo/Stat Knicks was Amar’e Stoudemire, one of the more overrated star players of his time.

Amar’e was good when he had a cheat code PG feeding him the ball, but even his one “good” season with the Knicks was mediocre. The other years of his Knick tenure he was a black hole, a pure salary albatross.

Yes we gave up way too much to get Melo, for dumb reasons, and that was at least partially Melo’s own fault. But let’s not forget that Stat stunk out the joint quite badly for the vast majority of that ill-considered contract.

KP back to play PF next to Mitch . . .Woody is getting excited

Out of all the guys mentioned I wouldn’t mind backing up the truck for Ingram. some combination of Obi or Grimes and RJ plus all the picks we can give up get it done? I’d like to keep IQ because I think we need him as backup PG and I think he’ll keep getting better.

Hmm. KP? If he’s past the “unicorn” nonsense, maybe. As pointed out, the Knicks could use some 3 and D guys, and he might work there, but not in a swap for Randle.

If they got him in some sort of deal involving RJ or Mitch, maybe. I wouldn’t worry about him needing to create on offense, b/c he’d be better just sitting behind the arc somewhere every possession to let Brunson and Randle do their shake and bake things. Maybe occasionally crash the boards for an odd follow up dunk.

Hopefully a trade for someone better/more reliable than KP can be worked out, though.

I don’t remember Dred being pissed at another poster, but I’m enjoying the hell out of it. To answer djphan, it’s very difficult to ignore a troll when every other post is by him and each is more inane than the next. Difficult, but not impossible. I hate scrolling past anyone’s thoughts, but don’t feel E’s posts are made in good faith, and so see no other recourse. Life is too short. I’ll get my fill through Dred eviscerating him simply by quoting him back at himself.

As for trades, I agree that it would be very difficult to replace Randle’s regular season production. Based on age I’d rather trade him, but RJ should be bring a better return. There’s is both a non-zero chance that RJ becomes the player he was for much of the playoffs and that Randle becomes the player he was in the regular season during the playoffs…but Randle has carried the team team through the regular season two out of the last three years, and that’s not nothing. RJ had a handful of excellent games…which he has done before, but never sustained. If RJ plus picks brings one of the Nets’ wings, I think you have to do it.

OG for RJ plus 3 picks would be my trade priority. He’s a plus defender at the 2, 3, or 4 and a good enough offensive player to fill most of RJ’s usage. If that didn’t work out, I would look to sign Watanabe. He’s a 39% career shooter from 3 and a decent defender. The Nets are over the cap and have excess wings as it is. He might be available for less than the full MLE. After him, I wouldn’t mind bringing back our old friend Alec Burks, a perfectly cromulent bench piece.

I am also very curious to see what happens with Obi. I could see the Knicks trading him, maybe for a late first, and slotting in Roby as the backup 4.

Brian, that’s entirely fair, and Melo never seemed like a bad guy to me, or even a bad teammate outside of the Linsanity mess (which sucked). And as various NBA pundits have pointed out today, did a number of really admirable pro-social things with his celebrity. I didn’t mind him as a representation of the team I rooted for, especially compared to a number of other guys past and (for the moment) present. It was the basketball experience of Melo that was miserable, even when he was good.

This number, meanwhile, is insane:

@davidaldridgedc
Pat Riley is one win away from his 19th appearance in an NBA Finals as a player, coach or executive. Nineteen! That will mean Riley has either played in, coached in or been his team’s top decision maker in 24.7 percent of ALL THE FINALS in NBA history!

Riley understood NBA players like LA & Miami better than anyone

And Riley oversaw some good years in New York too. That is amazing.

I didn’t have a problem with Melo as a person either. But leaving aside the statistical perspective of his play, the aesthetics were absolutely dreadful.

I am not sure OG is worth RJ + 3 picks.
OG is clearly the superior defender but RJ has a lot more on-ball skill the OG.

But agreed with whoever wrote above that trading with Masai may not be the way we want to go. Trouble with having all these picks is that the negotiating partner will of course ask for all them.

Whenever I bring it up people object for wholly understandable reasons, but if we’re looking for a guy who might be able to make a star-level impact and might be gettable at something lower than the typical “empty your wallet” price for a star…Zach LaVine continues to intrigue me a bit.

Because of the injury concerns and the fact that he’s mostly a one-way guy I definitely would draw a hard line in the sand somewhere, but he would do wonders for us offensively. He’d ease the pressure on Brunson, move Randle down the totem pole, and give us a huge shot in the arm in terms of 3PT shooting (and shotmaking in general, obviously).

The fact of the matter is our next major transaction, whatever it may be, will almost certainly not be an unambiguous grand slam like signing Jalen Brunson. Those just don’t come around very often. We’re going to have to make peace with a transaction that forces us to weigh real risks against reward.

I really worry about putting Brunson and Lavine out there defensively with Randle. That seems like it would be a regular disaster.

If I had OG in tow, I would throw the rest of my assets at getting LaVine. Brunson, LaVine, OG, Randle, and Mitch is my dream starting lineup.

I think our identity is defense, I wouldn’t sacrifice defense at all if can be helped in any trade. Agree with Lavine and probably KP being poor fits for that reason. PG and Mikal would be great, but probably not happening. We keep seeing the same names over which is why I floated Ingram (also like him because his age fits with the rest of the team, they can all come into their prime together) — does no one like that or just think the pellies wouldn’t do it? Any other ideas outside the box? Doubt Indiana would trade Halliburton for anything we have to offer but he’d fit.

The proposed Melo s&t to the Bulls in 2024 didn’t involve Butler. It would have been some combination of Taj Gibson, Mirotic, Boozer’s expiring and the two 1st rounders they had that year (the ones they consolidated into Doug McDermott). Butler wasn’t gonna happen, but neither was any other combination because Phil had no intention of trading Anthony regardless.

LaVine would be a terrible idea. It would be as bad as the Amar’e signing. His knee is constantly balky, he is a terrible defender, and he has a player option for almost $50 million in 2026-27. And Thibs woud grind what’s left of his knee cartilage into dust.

While anyone can get injured, if you are going to acquire a max player with chronic knee problems, let it be more of an alpha like Paul George or Kawhi. Otherwise just settle for an Alec Burks type or try to find the next Max Strus and continue to be patient until the right guy becomes available for the right cost.

I’m not out on the Bojan idea…although Thibs might Fournier him too…

I’m somewhat OG-skeptical simply because the price being discussed seems way out of line with what he brings to the table, but if we can get him AND LaVine without giving up much in the way of present production that could be a pretty damn good team.

It sounds like the Lakers will match anything for Reaves, which is a shame because I will repeat that I desperately want that guy on the Knicks. We should’ve taken him with the 19th pick in the 2021 draft hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I guess we’re back on the “Julius Randle is better than Zion Williamson” train today.

Well, one player is a two time all-star, two time all NBA player who rarely gets injured and the other is Zion. So yeah, RAndle is better than Zion.

75 games where you score 25 and snag 10 plus rebounds is better than 20 games where you score 28 and snag 10 rebounds.

Speaking of Zion, Barkley has been on his case, and I think they are very similar in some ways. Barkley was out of shape with Philly but dominated anyway and got spoiled. It took the late, great, and blunt Moses Malone to set his straight:
https://clutchpoints.com/pelicans-news-zion-williamson-gets-charles-barkley-message-amid-injury

Barkley also spoke about the massive role former teammate Moses Malone played in his career. At one point in time, Malone told Barkley straight up that he was “fat and lazy.” Chuck admits that he cried when he was slapped with this hurtful truth bomb, but eventually, he sought Malone’s help to lose 50 lbs. The rest, as they say, is history.

E, I’ve noticed something.

KP. Cam. Zion.

You seem to have fetish for athletically talented players that have potential but get hurt all the time.

To answer djphan, it’s very difficult to ignore a troll when every other post is by him and each is more inane than the next.

is what E does any more in bad faith than anyone else? before E showed up it was basically strat as the blog’s whipping boy…. and there were other various hostile back and forths with numerous ppl to varying degrees… some of whom got banned….

and strat hasn’t stopped his daily monologue about team building… it’s just there’s another target or subject to draw people’s ire now…. and guess what .. maaaaybe some part of what he was saying wasn’t totally wrong (still mostly wrong tho)…. we wouldn’t know because we’d just engage with all the outlandish stuff (which there were plenty of)…

on any given day.. even in this thread.. there’s a whole lot of misguided.. sometimes even bad faith arguments… nobody has any time to respond to every one of these.. and you don’t have energy to make 50 posts a day.. so why do you spend what little you have to feed what you consider a troll?

if you want better discussion you have every power to encourage it… and if everyone does that it would help everyone else… it’s like sitting in traffic and rubbernecking… just go about your day and stop looking at other ppl’s car accidents and everyone will be able to get to where they want to go…

and i know it’s tough.. this is human behaviour… i’m as guilty as anyone else… but if you’re more conscious about it… then maybe we can have disagreements without people taking things personally… and we can actually learn things from these discussions about the topic and each other…

You’re a smart man, Swifty. Now take what you wrote about the high-ceiling guys and consider my oft-stated perspective on low-ceiling intangible-y hustle bunnies and you basically have my Tao of basketball (such as it is).

Now I’ll go back to hanging up and listening.

Thinking Cam Reddish is a “high-ceiling guy” while Quentin Grimes is a “hustle bunny” is really funny, because there is literally no basis for it whatsoever except for the 2018 high school recruiting rankings (Reddish was #2 and Grimes was #8).

Grimes was better in college, has been much better in the NBA, and even has a higher career high in points!

It’s not a matter of their roles being vastly different either. Reddish has averaged a grand total of 1.6 more PTS/36, so they’ve both been low-usage players. Grimes has just been a lot better at it.

Amar’e Stoudamire and Zion Williamson are two of the most relentless, unstoppable forces I’ve ever watched play basketball (adding peak Shaq to that). Sure he had the help of a fairly good point guard, but back in the day watching Amar’e go to the rim was a thing of beauty and terror, even through the TV. Too bad it was basically over by the time he got to the Knicks.

Here’s hoping Zion’s career doesn’t match up the same. If it does, who here thinks he doesn’t force his way to the Knicks to end his last days watching from the bench…

Remember back in 2016 there was a guy here who was convinced that Tony Wroten was going to save the Knicks from the abyss… Was that E?

is what E does any more in bad faith than anyone else?

Yes.

and you don’t have energy to make 50 posts a day.. so why do you spend what little you have to feed what you consider a troll?

I don’t. As said, I’ve moved on. I hoped E was an actual fan with real points to make, but it didn’t seem that way, and having him pop up after every loss and go silent after wins was tedious AF. Say what you will about Strat’s points, he is very obviously a long-time fan and is here whether times are good or bad. TNFH and others exposed the lack of specific content and suggestions that would have made good posts more effective, but he’s never been completely ignored or dismissed, because he clearly loves this team. Poor, poor man.

i think trying to atrribute someoen’s personality or preferences to what they’re doing on the internet is probably the first problem… at the end of the day these are basketball opinions.. if someone is a fair weather fan (or whatever the inverse of that is).. i gotta ask… so what?

there isn’t a bigger thing in any conversation that leads to more toxicity and hostility than attributing things to someone’s personality and identity…. and you can do whatever you want… and believe whatever you do… but you’re attachment to ‘punish’ personality flaws for whoever the troll of the day is does more to contribute to this outrage culture than what any of these trolls do…

these trolls… if they are trolls… don’t know any better.. but guys like you supposedly do.. so if you stoop down to their level you just doubled the problem you had…. or you might actually be worse than the original troll.. do you think that’s a possibility too with that mentality?

look if you don’t care about any of that.. that’s fine too.. but don’t act like you do and continue to contribute to the problem… cause you have every power as E or whoever to just stop…

I consider myself a foulweather fan. I watched more Knicks games during the garbage years than I did this year. Missed some playoffs games to play doubles at the club, and I don’t even like doubles that much. Donnie Walsh is become me.

Man, I just saw a tweet about last night’s game and it struck me as how weird it is that I am so happy about the Heat kicking ass in the playoffs. 🙂

@THCJ What is your take on the current state of the Knicks?

Of all the players likely to be available in trade this summer (i.e., not Giannis, Taytum, Jokic, or Jimmy), whom would you most want the Knicks to pursue, regardless of the cost in players and picks?

I don’t think Giannis belongs in that parenthetical list.

He’s the guy that can make Leon’s plan work, and I think he’s nearing the end there.

That’s partly why the one guy I would pursue most heavily this summer is Brook Lopez. Signing him does so much for us.

1. It solves our spacing issue without sacrificing defense.
2. It weakens Milwaukee, accelerates the pace of their demise
3. It allows us to trade Mitch for more help
4. It sets us up perfectly to acquire Giannis

Focus on Brook. It’s the most impactful move we can make.

and yeah, the mezzanine is better because it has hot dogs and beer, but it’s still saying we’re stuck

Raven, I’m going to politely correct you one final time:

– “Purgatory”, as used by E, means we’re stuck.

– “Mezzanine”, as used by me, means currently we are not there.

Please stop conflating the two. They are nothing alike.

Fair enough, Hubert. Although purgatorial mezzanine has a nice ring to it.

And I like your Brook four-dimensional chess. Not entirely convinced it’s a good idea, but I like that you’re playing it.

Djphan, you make a good point, or at least the take-home I get, which is to ignore things you think are trollish. I am afraid I’ve fallen into that camp lately, it’s a good reminder.

And my comment a thread or two back about you still being on the same sentence since you started posting (in response to you saying someone was preoccupied with one of your sentences) — your use of ellipses. They can mean either a long, drawn out end of a sentence, or just a pause in it. Since you eschew initial caps, the impression is it’s all one great long Faulknerian sentence that never ends!

Not at ALL a criticism. I love the style, it makes for fun reading you in my head, regardless of whether I agree with you or not.

I think dj phan has an excellent way of communicating…

the ellipses simply unburden the mind from the stifling constraints of grammar…

If you’re Nick Nurse, what job do you want the most? Bucks or Suns? Or the Sixers if Harden somehow returns (if he doesn’t, then that Philly job can’t be too enticing).

i think for those that are able… they should just avoid labeling ppl and just argue.. if they choose… whatever it is they are saying on the merits… anyone.. and i mean anyone is capable of contributing something insightful… and that could get lost in these heated convos… but with as many times as things get misconstrued or misunderstood… i don’t even think people are actually trying to understand one another and just interested in just saying what they want… over and over again…

but if you feel yourself getting angry over someone’s opinion on basketball …or calling someone names.. then yea you should keep it movin and take a look at your life choices… but that would require introspection and admitting fault so that’s probably a pretty foreign concept for most…

and i have no problem engaging at any level anyone wants to engage in… but if you want better discussions… you gotta follow through… you can’t just be piling on like everyone else and then complaining about the mess you helped create…. this is a relatively small community so it should be relatively easy to facilitate if its members are motivated enough… you can’t just expect to change the subject whenever things get uncomfortable and think the problem just goes away forever…or just be passive aggressive … (when i say you i don’t actually mean you specifically raven… i mean you as in kb)…

so if you find yourself complaining about polarized discussions on the internet… how everyone is so unreasonable… take a look at what you do… you could make a big difference by just doing less of the bad and more of the good and maybe things might actually change for the better… you could most definitely make a big impact on this relatively small corner of the internet at the very least…

I think I’ve gotten heated recently and for that I apologize. I just thought naturally that once we were good and young and had good prospects for the future that a lot of these petty arguments would go away and people would largely be happy but it feels like there’s a contingency of fans who are more vocal and more negative than ever and that just confuses me. It’s not just here too and maybe I take it out on people here bc it’s actually much worse on Facebook threads, etc. So for that I apologize. I just have a hard time understanding why right now we aren’t just fucking stoked to be where we are. If in another season or two we’re still at this same level then I can understand being pissed and negative. But right now? We should all be happy!

Bucks. They have Giannis and won a title recently. Their core is getting older but still has a window and the vets will listen to him. With embiid you got injury issues and the suns cp3 is ancient and who knows with Durant cause he’ll jump ship the second he doesn’t vibe with you or try to get you fired.

Agreed. Giannis plus Jrue is a better starting point than he’s going to get in any of the other jobs, especially for a guy whose calling card is defense. Even if Harden returns to Philly, they have issues.

Lopez is going to be 36 and I’m not sure he wouldn’t hurt our defense, which was not awesome last year. He plays with Giannis, who is a vastly different defensive presence than Julius Randle and can probably cover for some of Lopez’s problems in space.

If in another season or two we’re still at this same level then I can understand being pissed and negative. But right now? We should all be happy!

I agree, but hey, opinions vary. There’s always people preaching the end of the world. 😀

Here’s the interplay of “purgatory” and “mezzanine” as I use them. (*)

“Purgatory” has been done to death, no need to re-define.

The “shopping aisle” for assets is a good one and I like the “mezzanine” aisle for those assets that the vast majority of teams don’t want — because they’ll eventually put you in purgatory. As Hubert first touched on yesterday, and I expanded on — perhaps in a way he doesn’t agree with, not sure — Leon Rose has shopped in the mezzanine aisle since he became the Knicks GM, both directly, and indirectly by squandering a bunch of first round draft picks. Those are basically players the vast majority of teams don’t want. Those teams are shopping in different aisles — the far more crowded and picked over ones.(**) Leon doesn’t fight for draft position and he doesn’t fight for modern players for the sake of their modernity. That’s mezzanine shopping.

There are three mezzanine aisle players on the Knicks now — in no particular order, Julius Randle, Mitchell Robinson, and Josh Hart. No one wanted Julius Randle in his first free agency and his market value is far below the surface numbers he puts up. That’s the virtual definition of the mezzanine aisle player. Mitchell Robinson is a rim hanging, paint protecting center who can’t shoot the basketball beyond two feet. No one wants those kinds of players. Josh Hart is a little different, but he too is very limited from deep, a poor outside shooter, and all the rest. The Blazers are “hybrid-ing” and they wanted nothing to do with him. His issues showed clearly in the Heat series. The premature ejaculating over him was one for the Knickerblogger ages.

Hubert put RJ in that bin; I don’t. Vive la difference.

Of the three, Josh Hart is the one I’d do the most to hang onto, although I wouldn’t pay him anything like $20 million per year and I wouldn’t have given up a 1 for him, although the damage is somewhat limited since the 1 wound up 23. I can see the argument to keep him — his professionalism and work ethic and swiss army knife talents can be good “innings fillers” for those long boring February Wednesday nights and he does do some good things on the floor — but net/net, I don’t need him.(****)

The coach is an sublimely quintessential example of a mezzanine aisle coach. Central casting. Leon shopped mezzanine for years, simple as that.

If I was running the team, Mitch and Julius would be on different teams by Opening Night. They’re just good enough to win too much but yet not enough with. Not even an issue. I’d have moved Julius long ago.(***)

I second Hubert’s call on Brook Lopez.

In terms of whether they’re “stuck,” that depends on a couple things. The first is the “Brunson delta” — the difference between the league’s perspective on Brunson when Leon got him, and what Brunson actually is. (Yes, Leon lucked into that delta, but that’s a side issue and doesn’t matter. He gets credit.) There’s a definite delta there, but I’m still not sure how big it is. If he’s a superstar, then you probably aren’t stuck.

The other is how much this freak openness we saw this year is here to stay. It could be that because of the spread floor and all the 3s, that superstars don’t have quite the leverage and impact that they did when a superstar was a guy you gave the ball to down the stretch and he couldn’t be stopped. Or, as is more likely, this year is just a complete fluke and things will normalize next year.

(*) “Mezzanine” is Hubert’s term, and it’s an awesome one, and I don’t want to use it and then butcher it — so I’ll defer if this deviates too much from his intended use and I’ll find a different term.

(**) And, yes, notwithstanding all the SRS stuff from yesterday, give any GM the assets Leon inherited and make that GM not care whether his team wound up in purgatory … and any of those GMs could have done what Leon did. With the caveat about the Brunson delta I mentioned yesterday and will get to later.

(***) If I had to add one more thing to the “Tao,” it would be this. If you identify a guy you know you aren’t going to ever be able to win with, be confident in your evaluation and get rid of him immediately. Don’t be tempted to waver or to pretend he isn’t what he is. That’s Julius.

(****) In terms of his co-hustle bunny, though I don’t think he’s that good and he was terrible in the postseason, at the very least he fits in a modern style. So the thing to do there is hope for improvement and make the best use of his catch and shoot talents as you can. He can stay around, though there should be no hesitation to move him in a package and it wouldn’t be any great loss. The idea that he’s somehow “untouchable” — probably a Thibs leak — is and always was laughable.

We don’t actually know what Randle’s trade value is bc we haven’t actually tried to trade him.

After his first season when Leon got here I think they drafted OBI in the hopes of him replacing Randle eventually but they didn’t try to trade him and then he put up an all star all NBA season. After that season they resigned him and had no intention of trading him. After last season his value was low bc of the season he had, so they didn’t try to trade him.

This is the first summer where they might consider doing that and his trade value might be where it should be based on the season he had.

Can you believe Brook and Mitch have a difference of exactly 10 years. Both were born on April 1, and this is no April fool’s prank. 😀 Now more seriously, why would a team that is still getting better replace their young C with a guy 10 years older with only 1 to 3 seasons left before falling off a cliff? And most likely with no trade value, which is a currency we need as we’re waiting for a trade to put us over the hump.

We also have never tried to trade Mitchell Robinson so we don’t know what his value is either in a trade.

It’s very easy to say a player has no trade value when they haven’t been traded bc you can pretend that means no one wants them but the reality could be the team that has him doesn’t want to trade him.

I just thought naturally that once we were good and young and had good prospects for the future that a lot of these petty arguments would go away and people would largely be happy but it feels like there’s a contingency of fans who are more vocal and more negative than ever and that just confuses me.

I’ll explain it to you.

I appears nothing is going to satisfy some people. They’d apparently rather we suck for as many years as it takes until we draft a superstar, draft wisely around him, they all remain healthy, they all remain in NY, we add some pieces later and we win a title (as if that path is a lock before some of us die of old age).

I have news for you.

If we add a top tier player this summer or next and actually win a title in the next 3-4 years (not just get better and contend ), they are going to be whining that Brunson is closing in on 30, Hart and Randle are on the downside, and our widow for a dynasty was too short. So it was all a failure.

I can’t even pay attention this nonsense.

Every qualified analyst that knows basketball really well has been praising our position as young, with plenty of upside, expiring contracts that could be put to good use, and a boatload of picks for trading.

Only extreme whiners are complaining at this point.

We all know this is not a finished product.

We all know there are no guarantees Leon Rose will make the right moves.

But there are about 29 teams that still have more work to do with no guarantees either.

If you aren’t happy now, it’s not the position we are in. It’s you.

The first is the “Brunson delta” — the difference between the league’s perspective on Brunson when Leon got him, and what Brunson actually is. (Yes, Leon lucked into that delta, but that’s a side issue and doesn’t matter. He gets credit.)

He didn’t luck into it.

Brunson’s stats last year with Doncic off the court were terrific. Then he carried the team on his back for a couple of games in the playoffs when Doncic was hurt. We even discussed that here at the time.

There was every indication he was improving last year and was way better than his per 36 minutes stats for the season and perceptions around the league indicated. Most of us (including me) were reluctant to assume the best. We wanted to see it first. But there was a good case for expecting a very good player.

Second, even if you want to attribute some of it to luck. A LOT of luck goes into building a championship contender. There are injuries (Zion), young guys go off the rails (Morant). Guys fail to develop at the hoped for pace (RJ). And there are others that were just expected to be pretty good that become all time superstars (Jokic). All you can do is hope is the luck component shines on you a little or is at least neutral.

What is your take on the current state of the Knicks?

James Dolan can kiss my white ass

“James Dolan can kiss my white ass”

Lol. Not exactly the analysis I was looking for.

On the coaching front, I think the prize job will be Boston. That’s the one the top coaches should be waiting for.

take a look at what you do… you could make a big difference by just doing less of the bad and more of the good and maybe things might actually change for the better… you could most definitely make a big impact on this relatively small corner of the internet at the very least…

the biggest thing I took from being close to gone was just how important it was to leave a clean slate when I left…

maybe it’s the belief of having to answer afterwards for what’s happened and will happen while here…fear of retribution…

a was subjected to a big dose of catholicism as a young person 🙂

i tell myself most often though it’s for pragmatic reasons…allow for a smoother more pleasant ride along the journey…

I understand though different folks have different needs…

the excitement of conflict is very alluring…

I haven’t felt bored or lonely since, so long i can’t remember…i know though that other people have other needs to fill…

somehow, consistent “conflict” fills a need…

I grew up in a house where for the brief times dad was there, there was a lot of arguing/drama…

conflict without purpose seems madness to me…that’s only me though…

it’s interesting to read the comments of others and how the constant, sometimes vitriolic discourse is physically upsetting to them…

no doubt a not so pleasant reminder of the past…

@Geo Have you done a will yet, bro?

by squandering a bunch of first round draft picks.

Atlanta Hawks trade Cam Reddish to New York Knicks for Kevin Knox, first-round pick

If you identify a guy you know you aren’t going to ever be able to win with, be confident in your evaluation and get rid of him immediately.

The Knicks still should have kept and developed Cam Reddish. Bizarre that that’s seen as some kind of “L.”

lol

Wonder if LeBron would want to come to NY now? Might be something that comes up in the off-season. I’m not a fan but I could see that as a long shot possibility.

I think Lebron’s thing is going to be going wherever Bronny winds up (assuming he’s good enough to be drafted) or staying in LA.

can you help me g-man?

edit: on my list of things to do…once I regain my wits a bit, and get a little stronger – there’s a bunch of tasks I need to address…

bam’s dirty illegal screens aside – i definitely am enjoying the scarcity of whistles in the post season…

Bronny will get drafted, even if it’s solely to woo Lebron

But the risk he leaves in a year stops me from going after him until Bronny is in the league, or just go after Bronny in the draft if you confirm LBJ is in tow

actually thought about it a bunch last year when I was going through a nuerogical review…I wasn’t so sure of a positive outcome at the time…

identified someone in town to speak with, but never followed through…

got a clean bill of health on my brain…the original damage exists, but, upon initial recovery 6 months to a couple of years – your brain re-wires itself to compensate as best it can…

I need to look after the kids though, and make my eventual departure a little less stressful for those I love…

Jokic with his quietest first quarter with only 2 pts (and 6ast 2stls 1 blk) guy is a chump

Edit: glad you got a clean bill of health, hopefully you feel it and not just the doctor saying it

Why are people making wild assumptions about other poster’s level of happiness?

Did you read, like, any game thread? I am quite happy with the Knicks.

oh, and I ain’t planning on leaving here anytime soon…this absolutely maddening health situation aside – I’m having a pretty good time…

did though just come to the realization now that last week I began this 6 to 8 week period of an anxiety episode…

the last one ended around Feb. 20, so weird…makes no biological sense for me to experience 6 to 8 week continuous 24/7 anxiety and then go for about a 10 to 12 week period wherein I’m relatively relaxed throughout that time…

I still get panic attacks during that 10 to 12 week period of “peace”…they just only last a half hour or so, and I can pull myself together easier…

one day at a time…

Tristan Thompson. ….hahaha

It ain’t over till it’s over…

Just a hunch but I dont think Lebron Is ready to leave LA

Glad LeBron is having a throwback game.

This was interesting on Embiid.

https://twitter.com/letstalkknicks_/status/1660740343262846976?s=46&t=0wqff4cNt-sCGcDs-uMExw

Jokic is an absolute unicorn on offense but as a rim protector he has nothing on the turnstile formerly known as Enes Kanter…

How does AD not dunk that?

Is 31 points on 13 shots in one half good?

say what you want about Lebron that is an amazing half of basketball from a 38 year old man

I think Jokic is much better on defense then Kanter. But he does seem quite passive at times on defense. He doesn’t overreact or panic on defense.

He uses his strength so effectively on both ends.

Tristan getting the halftime interview is hilarious

say what you want about Lebron that is an amazing half of basketball from a 38 year old man

He sat the last 3 seconds of the half, he’s no Brunson or Grimes

I guess a good strategy for LA is just play LeBron the whole game.

“I think Jokic is much better on defense then Kanter. But he does seem quite passive at times on defense. He doesn’t overreact or panic on defense.”

Yeah, Kanter and Willy H were on a whole different level….but it is a knock that will forever keep him out of the GOAT discussion for me no matter what he does on the other end. Defense is half the game, and Jokic would probably not be in the league if he played O like, say, Mozgov. All of the true GOAT candidates could have been HOFers or close just on their defensive abilities alone.

“He sat the last 3 seconds of the half, he’s no Brunson or Grimes”

lol

I liked that Mark Jackson quip: “I may not be as great as I once was, but I can be as great as I was, once.”

Nice D by Jokic there…

I’m curious what Reaves is gonna get

Geez Rui, what are you doing?!

Jokic musta been told what I said about him…

Better get Tristan Thompson back in there asap….

What we see in Jokic is what I wish Mitch was. It’s the offense that is lacking and I think that’s something need from the center position. While people are complaining about all-NBA Randle, opposing teams can focus on stopping him because there’s no alternative big that’s a threat from anywhere other than under the hoop.

GNYGNYG obviously you’re not saying that you wish Mitch was one of the greatest offensive players of all time…just that there was more balance and diversity on the offensive end while maybe sacrificing some defense, right?

I wish RJ could jump like Fred McMurray in son of flubber…while we’re wishing for stuff…

I wish my hair was still as thick and full as Thibs’ was in this pic: https://assets-cms.thescore.com/uploads/image/file/174294/w768xh576_thibs.jpg?ts=1461180105

As opposed to inching terrifyingly close to Thibs’ hair now.

I too wish Mitch could play offense like Jokic

Is that thibs or the dice man?

I’m at this Lakers game w a Warriors fan friend and he’s telling me 100% Jordan Poole is going be traded bc of the punch. Says it’s common knowledge that the doesn’t want to stay and the Warriors want to trade him.

That’s a guy I’d love to have if they’d be willing to do something like RJ & picks.

Just wondering, whose game was closer to Jokic’s, Jorts or Cole?

JORTS! Remember when some of us(*) were excited by the possibilities of Jorts’ game(**)?

(*) “Some of us” = me.
(**) “Possibilities of Jorts’ game” = “getting to say ‘Jorts’ all the time.”

Although I just realized that the probability of Draymond wanting to punch RJ is pretty high, too.

The Great Cole Aldrich played 3,389 minutes in his 8-year career. He beat LeBron’s second season by one minute.

I didn’t like the call on that first charge by Jokic on LeFlop but that one was pretty obvious…

Silver sent the word down to the refs…

AD with a brainfart closeout…

Jokic made some questionable decisions there

I think his defense is solid, average.

His ability to run the break off rebounds is so amazing. I think it’s a really underrated aspect of basketball, the ability to immediately attack off a board.

I find myself rooting for the Lakers because I want to see more of this…

Jokic is picking them apart

That was a ridiculous shot by Joker…holy shit!

D’Angelo Russell has to be one of the worst contracts in the league

Seriously. Insane shot. And Z Man kind of with you

I can’t believe how much time LeBron took there…

Schroeder fouled jokic too…shoulda been and one

LeBron for 3 to win it?

Oops….never mind

Congrats to Denver. Great team.

Well deserved for Joker, the Nuggets, and CDiggy.

Aaron Gordon did play great.

Z-man, Yeah. I mean he can’t be a total zero on offense. He can’t hit foul shots and has not post-up game, no baby jumper, no hook shot. To top it off, he has a poor handle. All of these are workable skills. He’ll never put up Jokic numbers but he should be able to be some sort of threat on the offense.

… and why would he need to sacrifice defense?

Those last 2 FGA by LeBron…

As someone said on Twitter, the Lakers didn’t even get swept by the MVP.

His numbers just ludicrous.

https://twitter.com/thehoopcentral/status/1660846913586077696?s=46&t=0wqff4cNt-sCGcDs-uMExw

That’s great for Denver on first trip to finals ever. They certainly paid their dues and Jokic is utterly fantastic. Will they be heavy favorites in the finals?

Kudos to LeBron also, for taking that team further than anyone imagined just a couple of months ago.

Am I the only one excited by a Nuggets-Heat final? (Other than you gamblers….)

the nuggets/heat final is going to be interesting…denver will be big favorites…

who knows, maybe the heat can beat them too…

I like Mike Malone a lot. Ty Lue did well for a rookie coach.

Mike Malone is Brendan’s son, right? Any other Nuggets have Jnicks connections, or has the Melo trade finally run it’s course?

pretty sure deandre jordan logged some minutes in a knicks uni…not too many highlight reel moments though…

I’m excited for Nuggets-Heat. All season I was reading how the East was the tougher conference while in the West it was a bunch of mediocrity plus the Nuggets. The Heat are close to making it to the finals and I am conceding they are really good, but I’m really wondering how they will stack up against the Nuggets. There is no team like them in the West.

I didn’t know D’Andre Jordan had played for the Knicks or the Nuggets.

Well…he sat on the bench in a uniform…so …saying he played for them might be erroneous…

@ Geo That’s not my area of expertise, but a decent lawyer can do one for a couple hundred bucks. Also, provides good peace of mind.

Very happy for Strat, who is going to win big on his Denver bet.

This was my first time seeing Jokic live and I was awestruck. He is going to pick Miami apart.

Also can’t believe that Jamal Murray is this good. Acquired in the Melo trade, of course.

What Miami has done so far is incredible but defensively they are using so much zone to cover up their weaknesses. We lacked the smarts to figure it out and Boston lacks the compete level to try. But I don’t think Jokic will have any trouble.

Nuggets in 5. Drinks on Strat.

I’m sure many casuals will bemoan not getting Lakers/Celtics in the finals again, but I think Heat/Nugs can be sneaky good: has Denver faced a defense as good as the Heat in these playoffs?

The Laker trolls are predictably upset, and have pivoted hard to bragging that they had a better season than the Knicks b/c they lasted a round further. That’s like the Yankees getting swept out of an ALCS but me bragging to, idk, a Royals fan whose team lost in the ALDS after a 5-yr playoff absence, that we did better than them.

One franchise has vastly different expectations than the other.

And yes I told them that, in context, the Knicks had a better season. That riled up #lolKnicksSupv pretty good, haha.

Random question that will not be answered: Who will get the better next contract: DLo or Austin Reeves ?

It’s a very good question, i think they’ll get around the same amount (20M AAV). No way they’ll keep paying big money to D’Angelo, right? He isn’t worth it.

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