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Josh Hart and Jalen Brunson put on show in Knicks’ win over Jazz New York Post Josh Hart hoping Knicks will be his long-term ‘home’ New York Post Josh Hart’s Knicks arrival means less playing time for McBride, Grimes New York Post
[news.google.com] — Saturday, February 11, 2023 10:17:00 PM
Utah Jazz: 3 keys from the Jazz’s loss to the New York Knicks Deseret News
[news.google.com] — Saturday, February 11, 2023 10:11:51 PM
Knicks 126, Jazz 120: Scenes from Josh Hart’s Broadway arrival Posting and Toasting
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N.Y. Knicks 126, Utah 120 SFGATE
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Live stream: Jazz 120, Knicks 126 Hoops Hype
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Sixers down Knicks, 119-108; Tyrese Maxey’s parents MVP of the … Philly Sports Network
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124 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.02.12)”
The newcomer put a stamp on this game and the Knicks came out with a win from a contest they lead basically all night but had issues closing (the Jazz are a resilient bunch of overachieving spare parts with a couple of keepers).
B2B are never easy (the Jazz were B2B too) so this was a good win and 31-27 is a nice little record. Alas, it could have been at least a couple of games better.
The last two games before the ASG are very important for the playoffs chase, starting with the next home game against the new lovable Nets and their 12-men rotation. It’s time to stop the losing streak against our city rivals.
Now I’m going to take a nap, back-to-back sleepless nights always kill me… 🙂
Plays Of The Game:
Both involve J-Hart.
4th 3:48 Josh Hart offensive rebound
4th 3:46 RJ Barrett makes three point jumper (Josh Hart assists UTAH 109 NY 115)
First, a contested offensive rebound ended with an assisted corner three from the always clutch-y RJ.
4th 1:42 Josh Hart makes 25-foot three point jumper (Julius Randle assists UTAH 114 NY 123)
Then the dagger to close the game.
Stats Of The Day:
52-38 Knicks’ advantage in rebounds. Utah had the inches, we had the Harts (21 combined).
41.8%. The disappointing, at least for my basketball taste, Knicks’ assisted baskets rate (18-43).
We’re dead last (54.7% for the season) and the gap with the 29th (the Trae’s dominated Hawks) is widening.
Grades
Brunson A
38, 5:1 AST/TO, 14 consecutive FTs while his teammates were denting the rim. I’m still clinging to the hope of watching him in the ASG.
Randle A-
Another 30-points effort but with unusually low numbers (6 REB, 3 AST… luckily only 1 TO), maybe Utah’s skyscrapers lineup has something to do with this. A few bouts of lazy defense but he was good in crunch time with a three, a dunk and an assists for another three.
Barrett B-
The well known RJ’s tale of two halves. Unwatchable in the 1st half (3 points, 1-6, 2 shots blocked), way better in the 2nd (5-9, 17 points, another shot blocked but a big corner three, we know and respect his penchant for big shots). He’s unpredictable and watching him play make me dizzy but maybe J-Hart’s presence will light a well-timed fire under his maple ass…
Grimes C
Maybe, as Early Bird noted in the game thread, he’s hit a wall after doubling his minutes total in a season. Or this is just a little slump (2-15 3FG in the last 4 games)…
But if he doesn’t start again hitting his open shots he’s going to lose a lot of playing time, because J-Hart plays the same role and he does all the other things better.
Sims C
Don’t get fooled by his rebounds numbers. Thibs put him on the bench for the last 16:46 of the game and it’s everything you need to know. He’s better defending the perimeter than protecting the rim.
Quickley B+
He unusually went 0-2 from the line but was efficient from the floor (3-3 2FG, 3-6 3FG). Not his best defensive night and that’s why, after some thoughts, I lowered his grade a little bit.
Hartenstein A-
indispensable against Utah’s three 7-footers (14 boards), team best +9 (for what plus/minus is worth). I’d like to watch him start and play 30+ until Mitch’s back.
Toppin C-
Lost. He had just a moment, a fastbreak J-Hart assisted basket that reminded us who he could have been. Now he’s a corner howitzer with the powders wet (0-10 3FG last 3 games). Not happy when RJ ignored him completely alone under the basket.
Hart A
Nice way to start your MSG career Josh. His energy totally changed the game as he did all the little things and more (11-7-4 and 4 STLs). He’ll never be a star but he’ll be on the floor a lot in crunch time.
I hope RJ and Grimes will positively react to his energy, they could become a valuable bunch of wings to throw at the opponents.
Plus, if you watched his pregame, he’s going to re-sign.
Thibs A-
We knew he’s gonna love J-Hart and I don’t think he’s going to bury Grimes on the bench, but the kid needs to start hitting his shot.
I’d like him to have a shorter leash for bad-Barrett but he did find the right combination down the stretch.
9-men rotation means Deuce become “situational”, I think Jericho will follow the same road once Mitch returns.
I heart J Hart. What a fantastic debut.
Side note:
After adding J-Hart to I-Hart the Knicks now sports 2 of my personal All-Underrated team.
I’m gonna send Leon a thank you note… asking for another couple of fighting scrubs… 🙂
Interesting game and jersey number choice by Hart. I thought he played a good and balanced fill-in-the-gaps floor game last night. It was refreshing because we didn’t really have anyone to do that this season. Quickley has done it here and there maybe, but Hart just seems natural at doing it. The 2 corner 3’s he had looked pretty good too- we may have less to worry about his shooting from 3 this season than we thought. He just knows where to be. Maybe that’s a Jay Wright’s Nova thing because Jalen does that too. Hart seems really excited about being a Knick, so I hope we are able to keep him. Regardless of who the coach is, he fits any system
Besides being possible competition and replacement for RJ, maybe the FO brought him in to be a role model for how RJ should model his game?
Like hart isn’t some knockdown shooter or defender although he’s pretty good. But he just competes and does other stuff really well. He and RJ are actually kind of similar in that way if RJ focused on being a good team player and not just getting points.
“…if RJ focused on being a good team player and not just getting points.”
Why bother? He’s borderline all-star with 20 points in 34 minutes.
What Brunson is doing lately is remarkable. You can’t say enough about how dominant he has been in February. He has a 143 offensive rating off a 27% usg and a 70% ts%. This is one of the best runs of form we have seen from a Knick.
Hartenstein is playing a lot better lately. He is looking like the guy we expected him to be. The guy who dates Kourtney Kellar has arrived. The addition of Jart makes all the sense in the world given that and given how the Randle, Brunson, RJ and Grimes are performing respectively. We can actually be a pretty decent team. We have 7 average or above average players once Mitch comes back.
Everyone else has said it but the variance RJ introduces to this team is kind of crazy. He can literally lose us games we would otherwise win and I could see him losing us a playoff series if we give him 36. He has the ability to play that badly. He pulled himself together in the second half and made a genuine positive contribution but 20 points on 19 shots is kind of his thing lately and it’s not good enough. The idea that he could play like Jart is nice but unrealistic. Josh is a great live wire athlete. He has all the physical tools. The amount of ground he covered to get a couple of those boards yesterday was flat out remarkable. RJ isn’t close to having that gear.
Underrated factor last night. Just 6 turnovers. I guess the downside to putting 3 7 footers out there is less pressure on the ball.
I think he would bother bc he doesn’t want to get traded? I get a lot of people here think we’re just average and in purgatory, etc. but this franchise in on the way up right now. We got an all star, another guy who should be one, we’re above 500, clearly in the playoff hunt. We got a rotation full of young players, plenty of picks coming up. Oh and it’s NYC. If you’re on a team that is even halfway decent you gets ton of exposure. The garden was rocking last night. I would think RJ would be motivated to try and stay here bc we’re one of the better situations to be in right now as a player. We’re not contenders but we’re some internal improvement and one big move away from being one.
1. This team is closer to being very good than we thought. We need a taller longer stronger SF than RJ that’s big enough to guard guys like Tatum, Lebron, George, Leonard, Doncic etc… that can shoot 3s and score in other ways. I still think we should go after OGA in the off-season.
2. We have to figure out a way to get Obi going again or we are going to need a backup PF to replace him. Obi is not on the court for defense, rebounding and shooting 3s. He’s on the court for energy plays and to be a threat in transition and around the basket. I can’t tell how much is on the Knicks doing a better job getting him involved and how much is defenses finally taking away some of his stuff, but he’s not very playable just standing outside the 3 point line.
Owen, great call!
(back to napping)
His skill set is sort of what we do need, except that he has to be better at all the skills. The starting 5 needs a 3rd ball handler / secondary/tertiary initiator who can be the second side outlet when teams overload the Brunson/Randle 2 man game, who has enough size not to be targeted on defense, and who can shoot the 3. He is all those things, but just not really good at any of them on a consistent basis.
Seriously, if we had Paul George in that spot instead of RJ, I think we would be a contender. If we had Andrew Wiggins, Anunoby, Mikal Bridges, or even a healthy Gordon Hayward, I would feel very good about us making it to the second round.
Thibs has a lot of things to juggle now in terms of keeping players happy – probably 7 guys who realistically feel like they should be in the closing lineup – Mitch, Randle, Brunson, and two of Quickley, Hart, Grimes, and RJ.
Honestly think Thibs should do a lot more offense/defense switching down the stretch if there are timeouts – putting Quickley in for Brunson for a defensive lineup of Quick/Grimes/Hart/Randle/Mitch – that is a really tough lineup to score against.
lol deefense thinking the same thing — nice
Side note – Hart provides much of what Grimes does — wonder whether the Hart move is a prelude to a Grimes trade in the offseason to bring in the star. Grimes is undoubtedly one of the best assets on the team and would likely need to go out in said star trade, And I hope Zach Lavine is not that star.
Missed the game last night, sounds like JHart is as advertised.
Who does he best compare to? A cross between Marcus Smart and Iggy comes to mind, more heavy on the Smart side physically and the Iggy side positionally. Guys that lay low but make big plays when you need them most. Guys who get there first. At least that’s my hope.
It seems to me that Obi’s injury has coincided with his reduced playing impact on the game. I don’t know why it should be that way; a broken leg usually just heals. And he is still fast down the court, but he just doesn’t show the quickness and hops that he used to. I hope he gets it back. We need an effective back up four.
As advertised, Hart added the sauce! He is a synergy guy and his skill set ( perhaps excepting his 3 point shot) should be consistent since it springs from his attitude, hustle and athleticism. I think he’ll bring it every night. Having this type of consistency should help Thibs game plan as well.
There is no way I would pay Masai what he wants for OGA. If we could get him as a free agent, fine.
Teams are going to implode between now and offseason 2024. I would prefer that the FO continues to be opportunistic and not overpay for the quick fix. Keep running RJ out there with a somewhat shorter leash and see if JHart rubs off on him a bit.
I love Grimes and Obi but those guys are expendable. The core of this team is Brunson, Randle, JHart and to a lesser degree RJ, IQ and Mitch. None of them are untouchable, especially RJ, but you can build a contender around that core. Grimes needs to develop…he’s a nice young player but if not hitting 40% from 3 he’s a trade chip. iHart is a solid backup but unless we get a true superstar he’s not a starter and backup C’s are a dime a dozen.
There’s a lot of fog between us and the promised land but I can see glimpses of the other side.
I agree with everyone on J-Hart. He was as advertised.
I don’t mind giving up picks for players I think will be productive for the duration of their contract when they fill a need. I’m OK with this deal. But we clearly need one more upgrade. Whether that’s a trade for a SF and moving RJ back to SG or using RJ in trade I don’t know. But we aren’t a finished product yet and one way or the other we’ll need picks to finish the job. At least we didn’t do anything stupid like attaching a pick to Fournier to move him now when he’s contract could useful next year.
“There is no way I would pay Masai what he wants for OGA. If we could get him as a free agent, fine.”
It’s tough to deal with guys like Masai and Ainge, but it’s also tough to find wing defenders that can also shoot and score a bit that you can confidently put on some of the elite wing scorers around the NBA. That and the fact that’s he’s young is why everyone wants him. Someone has to guard guys like Tatum, James, Leonard, George, Doncic etc… or they’ll take over and beat you by themselves down the stretch of big games. Guys like DFS and Bridges, both on the Nets now, would also probably bring in a nice haul too. Bridge’s definitely would. I’m not sure I have an answer for who, but I don’t think it’s going to come cheap.
strat, while I agree in principle, the current rules vastly favor offense over defense. Every contending team is going to be able to score a lot of points no matter who is defending them.
OG is not going to win the scoring battle with all-NBA wings no matter how good his defense is. This team needs more offensive firepower, and that’s where we should be using big globs of our pick cache, not on glorified role players, which is what OGA is no matter how you slice it.
The dude is simply not worth 3 unprotected picks. Neither is Mikal Bridges, who I would WAAAAY prefer to OGA. Especially not with our current core.
What Brunson is doing lately is remarkable. You can’t say enough about how dominant he has been in February. He has a 143 offensive rating off a 27% usg and a 70% ts%. This is one of the best runs of form we have seen from a Knick.
last 20 games he is 29.3pts 5.7 ast 2.0 tov per game with a 61.3% ts. the only other time in nyk history someone went 29 and 5 for a 20 game span was clyde in 71-72.
On the offensive side of the ball, Brunson is very Clyde-esque. On defense, not so much…
brunson and randle have been playing out of their minds recently which has won us some games we absolutely shouldn’t have while mitch was away.. they are up to 4 bpm on the season…
some variance is definitely in play there tho…. brunson’s been particularly hot from 3 (46%) on a career high number of unassisted 3pa in the last 2 months…. and randle’s shooting an unreal 51% on the season in floater range largely off those fadeaways and various hooks…. randle in particular has a lot of crazy things going on his line which has made for a pretty weird season but that’s a discussion for another time….
i do think some of these will fall back down to earth but hopefully should coincide with mitch’s return… so in all we’re largely going to be the team we’ve been all season barring any more variance from RJ…
Nice win against a pretty decent Jazz team. Hart looked very useful, it would be good for the team as a whole if we can get a couple more fast break buckets a game.
Can someone say what picks we have coming up. We have DAL first rounder if they make the playoffs?
“OG is not going to win the scoring battle with all-NBA wings no matter how good his defense is.”
You aren’t going to win every matchup every night. What you are trying to do is make sure teams aren’t crushing you regularly at a particular spot because of a defensive weakness. You can’t allow Embiid to do what he did the other night. No one is going to stop Embiid or win the matchup except maybe Jokic, but you can’t let him dominate like he did. Mitch would do a better job…..until he fouled out. 😂
The NBA has a lot of elite wing scorers. IMO you need someone that can defend those guys. Grimes is good most nights, but he’s not tall/long and strong enough for those really tough matchups we’ll face in the playoffs and RJ is also too small and not quick enough.
“Grimes is good most nights, but he’s not tall/long and strong enough for those really tough matchups we’ll face in the playoffs and RJ is also too small and not quick enough.”
So, Josh Hart gets those assignments?
@Danvt
Dallas’ pick is top-10 protected.
strat, not disagreeing with you on that point, but you are missing mine. We need a better #1 scoring option than what we have. If you acquire OGA with multiple unprotected first rounders, you will never get that player. You will top out as a conference semis team. That’s why you sacrifice a lottery-protected current pick for someone like JHart. You get most of what OG gives you…he can defend guys like Tatum just as well because what he lacks in height/length he makes up for in Marcus Smart DPoY ways.
We would be picking 19th if the draft was tomorrow
Watching the replay, two second Q observations:
-two of JHart’s misses were at the rim on strong drives and were easily rebounded and converted by iHart.
-Obi was absolutely smoked on a straight-line drive by Gay. He will never, ever be able to defend his position well enough to start for a good team in this league.
-IQ and JHart are developing chemistry. More generally, JHart seems to have that elusive quality of making his teammates better.
Brunson has been astounding. JHart had a promising debut. Both have a grit reminding us of the “old days.” The subtle tampering landing both these guys makes me like Leon more than I prolly should.
I posted this at the end of the other thread, but I’ll say it again: the best lineup we can put on the floor is Brunson/Quickley/Hart/Randle/Robinson. That is a balanced lineup that is only lacking a true sniper. Three of those five are good defensive players, and three of the five are good offensive players, while the other two are high efficiency/low usage guys.
We should definitely be closing with that lineup. Quickley is simply a better player than RJ and when you factor in IQ’s defense it isn’t particularly close.
Going forward this team needs more floor spacing, better 3pt shooters. I’d be looking to package RJ/Obi for some guys who can shoot.
Z-man, I’m not sure we need a better number one scoring option. We are sixth in the league in offense according to Basketball Reference after all I do think we could use a higher three point shooting percentage. Our percentage isn’t that great and that’s already with a lot of our threes being relatively open since we get them after getting the ball down low and kicking it out.
The offense ranking #6 comes with one caveat: we rely heavily on offensive rebounding to pull that off, and that costs you on the other end because when you’re crashing the offensive boards you’re not getting back on defense.
“Z-man, I’m not sure we need a better number one scoring option. We are sixth in the league in offense according to Basketball Reference”
We’ve accomplished this in a very weird way that does speak to a need for a number one option. We’re 25th in the league in eFG%, we just rebound the hell out of the ball and limit turnovers well (2nd and 3rd in the league respectively).
There’s a lot of meat left on that bone if we can get a guy(s) who is really good at turning possessions into points. Of course, it would be ideal if that guy(s) is also a good wing defender.
JK I agree IFFFF IQ can become a more consistent shooter and IFFFF JHart can hit open corner 3’s in a PJ Tucker kind of way. If not, then it becomes a situational/matchup-based rotation.
The larger point is that if JHart is the “makes others better” kind of player he seems to be, then he has to be in there. Then you can rotate RJ, IQ and Grimes depending on matchups.
Knick Fan not in NJ and Z–Man: This is probably obvious, but another way to improve our 3 point scoring is to create more attempts. I think when Robinson returns and with the addition of Hart, our offensive rebounding will be elite and hopefully lead to more 3 point attempts.
We have:
A future 1st from Dallas which is top 10 protected this year, 2024, and 2025 and then it becomes a 2nd.
A future 1st from Detroit which is top 18 protected this year and 2024, top 13 in 2025, top 11 in 2026, top 9 in 2027, and then becomes a 2nd.
A future 1st from Washington which is top 14 protected this year, top 12 in 2024, top 10 in 2025, top 8 in 2026, and then becomes two 2nds.
A 2025 top 4 protected 1st from Milwaukee.
We owe:
A top 14 protected 2023 1st to Portland which becomes 4 2nds.
Warriors are gonna sue the Blazers over Payton II. What a fascinating sideshow to an already intriguing western conference.
Some scattered thoughts on our place on the win curve, among other things:
-Last season we were about as good as basically any team in the NBA can be if they aren’t tanking. There are 37 wins to be had if you really care to get them.
-That’s clearly no longer true–there are teams e.g. Charlotte and Washington who have been trying to be as good as we are now (~45 wins) for years to no avail. In that sense, the front office has already outcompeted *some* competitors.
-The biggest reason they were able to do this was by getting borderline all-star level talent without paying retail. Randle and Brunson are among the best players to change teams via unrestricted free agency over the past few years. The reasons we didn’t pay retail in both cases are varied: Randle came here and got better, and with Brunson there were, well, connections that helped (though I will say I still think his free agency didn’t get the attention it should’ve based on how good he is). Good drafting absolutely helped and shouldn’t be overlooked, but the primary reason we’re here is because we got fringe stars in the door at non-star prices.
-The fact that we didn’t pay retail to get to the 45 win range leaves us in a better position to improve than many other 45 win teams, because we didn’t go into a pick deficit and/or into insurmountable cap hell to do it. We can now pay retail for a bonafide star and, if the fit is good, probably pass Morey’s 5% test after doing so. Easier said than done, but “one semi-feasible transaction away” is much, much closer to genuine contention than we’ve been since 2000.
TNFH: This is a reasonable take and puts me in a good mood. It is a little bit like how I feel about the Giants relative to adding a “1” receiver.
Things I learned from scanning the game thread:
1) Josh Hart will command a lot of minutes at the wing.
2) Finland is not in Scandinavia.
We’re (surprisingly, to me) good at limiting fast break scoring. A lot of our ORB prowess is just Mitch and big Hart being very good at it.
As a Marylander, the Knicks have made my inner Old Bay Seasoning smile- as I just noticed that Hart is also from MD like Quickley is. I actually once lived maybe 7 minutes away from where Hart went to high school at in MD.
Horton-Tucker has that “should be on a second-level team in Eastern Europe look to him…
I’m not sure why we don’t think Brunson can keep this us — if you look at his splits, he’s actually shooting at or below his career averages from everywhere except slightly above on 3 pointers. I mean I have the same feeling that everyone has, that some regression is coming — but I think some of that comes the “there’s no way he can keep doing this” mentality that he’s probably had to deal with for his whole career as a 6 foot nothing guy with short arms. He’s entering his physical prime – why shouldn’t he be able to keep this up?
@Poindexter re: As a Marylander, the Knicks have made my inner Old Bay Seasoning smile- as I just noticed that Hart is also from MD like Quickley is. I actually once lived maybe 7 minutes away from where Hart went to high school at in MD.
Which high school are you referring to? I imagine you mean Wheaton. He also went to Sidwell Friends in DC.
BTW, I’m in the area. I live in Ashburn, but have also spent time living in Silver Spring (twice), Rockville, North Bethesda, and Germantown. Went to college (at Delaware) with a whole bunch of guys who went to Springbook.
Wayloncash, we are eighth in the league in number of three point attempts per game but our three point percentage is 26th in the league. It’s not as simple as taking more threes.
I approve of THCJ’s remarks…
Agree with Noble, and, a few years back, I suspect that exact take was written on a strategy paper from Leon to all.
I think the most attainable way for RJ to maximize his value is to become a 40% spot-up 3pt shooter. If he can do that, plus keep his head up and get more selective on his forays to the hoop he can be a plus player. He has already improved his mechanics both from the 3pt line and the FT line to give me hope that at age 22 there is still room to grow there.
In contrast, one thing that is immediately apparent about JHart is that he has shot mechanics issues. From my eye test, too much fingers, not enough wris…ball comes off with way too much spin on it, not gonna get any shooter’s bounces. Not sure if it’s fixable at his age…it’s so ingrained that tinkering might mess up his head. But I don’t see a path to above 34% with those mechanics.
I though the Sims critique was a bit harsh, he got lots of contested rebounds and while not his best effort at defending the paint, UTA hit some tough shots over him.
iHart was a monster on the offensive boards with three great putbacks. He and JHart are gonna keep lots of possessions alive on that second unit when Mitch returns.
Norwegian, Danish and Swedish are all descended from Old Norse. Finnish is a completely different language group. I am sorry I may have led people astray. It appears Finns are also somewhat prickly about having been part of Sweden for 700 years.
I don’t think I am shocked that Brunson is doing this. Certainly, he showed he was capable of it in his non Luka minutes.
My major interest with him is just how much he gives back on defense, which I think I am starting to feel is kind of a decent amount. His offense is so valuable that it’s obviously a plus but you need to complement him with good defensive players. It’s not a surprise that Villanova did so well with him out there alongside Hart and Bridges and Devincenzo.
JK – Totally agree on that closing lineup even if it feels a touch small 1-3
And also, the way we are winning is pretty funky. Limiting turnovers and rebounding are not generally the four factors people target. But if it works it works.
“…a few years back, I suspect that exact take was written on a strategy paper from Leon to all.”
At the very least, it seems clear to me that the negative takes about the direction taken and a bunch of decisions made, including the recent acquisition of JHart, were either misguided or overblown. Sure there’s been mistakes. On top of some admittedly dubious decisions in regard to who was drafted, or drafting vs. non-drafting, last year totally sucked, from the off-season until we were eliminated, and everyone from top to bottom deserved to be criticized for it.
But just think about where this team would be if we used a first to ditch Randle and had Obi as our starting 4. THAT’S the kind of enormous, unrecoverable setback that FOs have to avoid. Same with outbidding the Cavs for Mitchell. All he would have done is put Brunson on the back burner. Leon was saved from himself, but still, he drew a line in the sand and didn’t cross it. That’s huge.
This is turning out to be a very enjoyable season that is coming at minimal cost with lots of rounds still in the chamber. Still a ways to go to true contender status, but hopefully the Leon/Thibs serial detractors will chill for a bit.
For some eye candy, check out Josh Hart’s one-game advanced stats line in B-R. You don’t see double-digit BPMs very often!
And to follow up on Sims and iHart, they combined for 24 boards, 11 offensive. Considering that the opposing team has three 7-footers in their starting lineup, that’s pretty good!
How about Brunson for most improved? It’s probably less improvement than just getting a chance to show what he can do as a first option but the counting stats have gone up enough to where he should be in contention and it’d make up for the all-star snub.
Knick Fan not in NJ: Certainly agree, but, given that we don’t have a knock down shooter (yet?), the extra attempts should help.
Nicos, good call. Markkanen is another great candidate.
Although lol, Randle might be the guy if he didn’t play so well in 2020-21…
Memphis – Boston pretty good pre SB treat
I think Markannen has it locked. And if not him SGA.
Shams: “ Pelicans All-Star Zion Williamson – sidelined since Jan. 2 with hamstring strain – re-aggravated the injury and is expected to miss additional weeks after All-Star break, David Griffin says.”
Great player. Fragile as hell.
@ Z-Man
just to clarify the rationale behind my comments,
3 of Sims’ offensive boards aren’t “real” boards (a shot hitting the rim and going somewhere) but shots he tried, were blocked and went back to his hands* (in one instance, after two blocks, he did finally score, in another one he didn’t).
That’ s why I wasn’t impressed with his numbers (maybe I should have write that in my comments) even if his hustle is never in question.
Anyway different opinions are good for the world 🙂 and getting a rotation player at 58 is a great result.
* I always found that kind of “offensive rebounds” a bit fake…
Will Zion live forever as one of the great “what if ” of the League?
Or, given his physical structure this is to be expected?
I think if the Knicks are 6th or higher and Utah fades out of the playoff picture Brunson moves past Markannen. SGA on the other hand… it’d take some NYC media bias but never say never!
We narrowly beat a 28-30 team on our home court, and someone thinks all the doubters have been decisively defeated. That is precious.
This Payton affair between Portland and Golden State is fascinating. Per the Athletic, the medical staff at Portland was giving him pain killers so he could play (Oral Toradol, a modern NSAID), but they didn’t tell Golden State this. They just said he was healthy to play. Golden State’s medical staff examined him and concluded he will need three months to recover from his abdominal injury. Reportedly, once he got to Golden State he told them he still wasn’t healthy. He also told Golden State that part of the reason he was happy to be back there was he prefers their medical staff to Portland’s.
Golden State has complained to the league. League regulations require that medical data be disclosed as part of a trade. Golden State says Portland didn’t do that.
Hubie,
A huge chunk of the league is somewhere near 500. We’re at the top end of that chunk and easily can keep improving with internal growth from young players and player continuity and we’ve got picks and reasonable contracts. Making a trade for the right star at the right moment is very much within our reach. And if that person doesn’t come along we can also improve through free agency or drafting players. This is literally the best position the Knicks have been in since they went to the finals in 99. At this point it’s plain obtuseness to act otherwise.
“We narrowly beat a 28-30 team on our home court, and someone thinks all the doubters have been decisively defeated. That is precious.”
Not all. Just the more thoughtful and self-aware ones.
My Pelicans win the west ticket not looking too good right now.
Terrence Ross to the Suns, Reggie Jackson to the Nuggets, Danny Green to the Cavs…
Buyout market heating up.
I never sports bet but my buddy is begging me to open an account so we can bet the Lakers to win it all at 55-1. I suggested I need an extra 20-1 on top to root for them. Then he suggested the Sixers. Conversation devolved from there.
Don’t know anything about betting but my sense is that the Celtics are too heavy favorites to win and thst the odds for everyone else must be sweetened a bit.
Some people here conflate all the posters who they disagree with.
Noble thought the Knicks were in a worse position than any team in the NBA. He wanted to trade all we had for Donovan Mitchell. And he thought Julius Randle had the worst contract in the NBA. His take, which was arguably the most pessimistic on the entire board, has been decisively defeated.
I predicted Julius Randle would bounce back, wanted nothing to do with a Mitchell trade, and said that the Knicks would win 44 games and finish 7th.
The Knicks are currently in 7th place, on pace for 44 wins.
This is exactly what I believe Leon is capable of delivering. And I think he spends way too much in draft capital to deliver it.
Some people think that every generalized post is directed specifically at them. They shouldn’t flatter themselves.
I thought Randle would bounce back but not like this.
Another thing the Leon Fluffers like to do is attribute 100% of our current status to Leon. “We’re fun, we’re entertaining, ergo Leon’s done good.”
We are indeed fun and entertaining. I just can’t help noticing that Steve Mills and Scott Perry contributed way more to our current state than Leon Rose did, specifically Julius Randle, Mitchell Robinson, RJ Barrett, and the surplus draft picks we used to acquire Quickley & Grimes.
I don’t think this team isn’t good or fun. I’m simply cognizant of which GM did most of the work to make it that way. It ain’t Leon.
Straw man red alert!
Wait I thought RJ sucked though.
Leon is responsible for drafting IQ which people acted like was the worst pick ever when it was made. Pepperidge farms remembers that draft night.
He also drafted Grimes and signed Brunson. Traded for rose down the stretch two seasons ago and traded for hart now. Resigned Randle and Mitch to super team friendly contracts.
He’s made mistakes. All GM’s do. But it’s annoying when the team is actually fun and decent and has loads of ways to improve for people to be Debbie downers bc he didn’t do a “proper rebuild.”
Owen, Is your sports buddy an optimistic Lakers fan by any chance?
And above all rose has been patient, which people here have wanted for years. But apparently being patient ONLY applies to multi season tanks jobs.
One of the non-data based “metrics” I care about when evaluating new signings is how much they’re missed by the team that lost the player. It’s obviously never an exact science but the fans who watch their team religiously tend to know more about acquisitions than anyone else, and Josh Hart has been a fan favorite everywhere he went, Lakers, Pelicans and Blazers more recently. No one thinks he’s a star or will ever be one but he’s beloved because of how hard he plays, how much he hustles and compensates for his shortcomings with effort. Very glad to see that was on display last night.
Like with many moves from this front office I question the cost and the process, but I’m still happy that they’re doing this stuff to get actual productive basketball players like Brunson, Grimes, Hartenstein and now Hart. If you want to build progressively without focusing on high draft picks you need to hit on a large percentage of these moves and so far, so good, I’m happy with the results.
Leon also has kept Scott Perry on the payroll. He clearly doesn’t have some ego that needs to have only his guys and his players.
He’s a calming steady presence that this franchise has desperately needed. I just wish people would give him props for that instead of nitpicking over kate first round picks when he’s also made trades to get extra picks or harp on hiring a “win now” coach with thibs when thibs is clearly a good coach that has instilled a good culture here and the players love. Just give him some credit. Why is it so hard?
I will tell you why. Bc he didn’t do exactly what you would have done and people can’t admit that there are multiple right ways to do things.
Quickley was a great find by Leon, although I maintain they managed that draft horribly.
And his last off-season, after he incinerated a lottery pick, was excellent. No one else delivers Jalen Brunson except Leon. No one else incinerates a lottery pick, though.
Hart is a great addition, albeit too costly. So I’m not against giving the guy his due.
We just had someone come on here, though, and say a 6 point win over the Jazz should definitively silence anyone who doubts the direction of the team. I mean, come on. He’s Sammy Sideways.
“We just had someone come on here, though, and say a 6 point win over the Jazz should definitively silence anyone who doubts the direction of the team. I mean, come on.”
It’s really cozy here in this rent-free apartment!
My buddy is a transplant from Florida who is a huge Heat fan with strong philolebronic tendencies.
If we win 44 games after the Hart trade I think everyone can declare victory.
I am with DRed. I expected a Randle bounce back but he has been better than I expected. Still, we are basically where we were projected by most and unlikely to get out of the second round. Which is fine.
I think the confidence meter on the FO is swinging towards the positive side of the ledger lately. Which is good.
Long way from full faith and trust though.
Nah, man. It’s because he consistently does what no sensible GM would do, and we’re in worse shape than we should be because he’s not good at his job.
You can be not good at your job and still have a good team.
Doc Rivers is mailing it in, and his team his 3rd in the east.
They won 46 in Leon’s first year. I’d put that at the high end of the purgatorial range. They got demolished in the first round of the playoffs, confirming the requisite distance from true contention.
They won 37 last year.
They project to win less than 46 this year.
Hard to see how these aren’t just bounces within purgatory.
“I think the confidence meter on the FO is swinging towards the positive side of the ledger lately. Which is good.
Long way from full faith and trust though.”
Seems like a pretty fair take to me…
Big fan of the Stapleton national anthem
Steve Mills did not trade for the IQ pick. Steve Mills was fired because he *wouldn’t* trade for the IQ pick.
Let’s not start rumors Hubert!
Mills also incinerated the Knox pick.
When Leon took over, the roster he inherited had the worst preseason odds in the NBA, with the O/U set at 21.5; the Knicks were a league-wide laughingstock; and the Nets were primed for a dynastic run after humiliating Mills on an intergalactic level in free agency. But Vegas was wrong by 25 games because they didn’t understand the genius of Steve Mills as a stealth championship roster builder.
And Leon’s great fortune compares with Doc Rivers because Leon inherited a team that finished 43-30 the previous year on the shoulders of perennial MVP candidate. Oh wait, sorry, that was Doc….Leon inherited a roster that went 21-45 without a single 1X all-star.
The person who deserves the most credit for the turnaround in the 2020-21 season is Thibs.
We’re on a 44 win pace.*
*Ignoring the fact our 3rd best player, and probably our single most important player, has missed a third of the season
Sure, Mitch has missed some time but we played an extended series of games earlier in the season where our opponents were missing their superstar player. All in all I wouldn’t say we’ve had bad injury luck.
JK agreed, we’ve largely been pretty fortunate injury-wise.
Rooting for Philly but hope Mahomes is okay…
I liked the Stapleton National Anthem too
We’ve gone from a top-10 defense to a bottom-10 defense in the time Mitch has gone down
So is this the first half time show by a woman six months pregnant?
Is she pregnant? Didn’t she have a baby last year?
Curious how much is lipsynched. But she has put on a good show. Pretty good for not having performed in 7 years.
Definitely preggers…threw in a few trademark crotch grabs for good measure…and one good ass grab as well…
I think that was 100% lip synched.
Not my genre of music but visually spectacular…
Looked that way JK. Still enjoyed.
Quite a way to announce you are expecting
Lip-synced chorus lines- now that’s entertainment.
Bruh, you saw the bit where I said “and Scott Perry”, right? Don’t be so thirsty.
Remember that iconic Whitney Houston performance of the National Anthem back in the 90’s? That was lip synched.
No, it was Julius Randle, by 100 miles.
Some of you old guys got some pretty clear biases.
JK – you just rocked my world . Holy cow. Had no idea.
Liked the Miles Teller ad with his wife.
BBA can’t you see that Thibs just waltzed into a great personnel situation created by Steve Mills and Scott Perry and rode Randle’s coattails to a second undeserved CoTY award?
Lol, after your whole diatribe the other day that boiled down to inventing your own rumors?
And are you really giving credit to a guy who was gm for under a month and only made a move so obvious it got a guy fired?
This has to be the longest third quarter in Super Bowl history.
What gives with Philly’s goal line defense
They’re missing Mitchell Robinson
Not a bad game
It’s just Mitch and shooting variance – 1
It’s Thibs’ notoriously complex system of funnels – 0
Seems like a pretty great game, give or take an uncalled spear or two…
Thibs aka Forrest Gump 2.0
Ahmad Bradshaw scores there.
“They’re missing Mitchell Robinson”
funny!
Tough way to lose
i wish that ref had swallowed his whistle but the Chiefs probably still win so whatever, great game!
Who is Miles Teller?
Goose’s son and Maverick’s new wing man.
I’m not gonna lie, Clark Hunt is a funny name
Took me a second.
My wife says his daughter has had too much work