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[news.google.com] — Monday, February 6, 2023 3:43:23 AM
76ers coach Rivers frustrated by bench unit and mentality in Knicks defeat Yahoo Eurosport UK
[news.google.com] — Monday, February 6, 2023 2:06:17 AM
Randle and the Knicks visit conference foe Orlando The Associated Press – en Espa?ol
[news.google.com] — Monday, February 6, 2023 12:52:44 AM
Kyrie Traded to the Mavs, Knicks Come Alive Against Philly, and AMA The Ringer
[news.google.com] — Monday, February 6, 2023 12:47:05 AM
Evan Fournier: Helping Knicks win Sunday ‘was like a fun one-night stand’ Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, February 6, 2023 12:36:00 AM
Knicks’ Tom Thibodeau not buying into criticism of RJ Barrett’s defense New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 11:45:00 PM
NBA roundup: Knicks rally from 21-point deficit to beat 76ers Reuters
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 11:44:00 PM
Knicks fans hilariously chant ‘Eagles suck’ during win vs Sixers ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 11:22:35 PM
Dueling Eagles Chants Break Out in MSG During 76ers-Knicks Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 10:47:38 PM
How the Kyrie Irving trade affects the Knicks ? New York Daily News New York Daily News
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 9:40:00 PM
Knicks rally from 21 points down, beat Sixers 108-97 CBS Philly
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 9:28:00 PM
Knicks rally from 21-point deficit to beat red-hot 76ers in stunning win New York Post NBA 76ers vs Knicks Same Game Parlay Predictions at +2155 odds PickswiseDoc Rivers Addresses Sixers’ Bench Struggles vs. Knicks on Sunday Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 9:14:03 PM
Evan Almighty! Embattled Knicks Shooter Sinks Sixers in Comeback Win Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 7:58:52 PM
New York Knicks insider claims team could move at least 3 players at NBA trade deadline Sportsnaut
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 7:41:49 PM
Eagles chant breaks out at Madison Square Garden during Sixers-Knicks game PhillyVoice.com
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 6:38:22 PM
Sports World Not Happy With ESPN’s Decision Sunday The Spun
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 6:27:42 PM
Philadelphia 76ers vs New York Knicks Feb 5, 2023 Game Summary NBA.com
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 6:24:08 PM
NBA: Philadelphia 76ers at New York Knicks | Fieldlevel … Rockdale Newton Citizen
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 2:29:24 PM
Clippers vs. Knicks Final Score: Three takeaways from New York Clips Nation
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 1:38:20 PM
The Knicks are dealing with an RJ Barrett problem Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 5, 2023 12:48:00 PM
New York Knicks vs. Philadelphia 76ers: Time, TV channel, free live stream, how to watch syracuse.com
142 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.02.06)”
I’m happy for this win and hope it did help DRed taking a little break from his sorrow. Stay strong my friend.
The New York Rollercoasters did it again!
Fresh from a heartbreaking overtime loss to the Clippers they did look ready for a monumental ass-whupping and were down by 21 after less than 10 minutes.
But they refused to give up and just as we were all bracing for a dispirited loss, the working class went to Heaven (paraphrasing the original title of the masterpiece known as “Lulu the tool”) as Deuce, I-Hart and Evan “one night stand” Fournier (cit.), with a little help from Obi, destroyed the Sixers’ bench AND the Sixers’ starters leading us to a juicy refreshing win.
This team is totally crazy and can literally win with everyone and lose with everyone but 99% of the time they won’t surrender and that’s a compliment to the coach and the staff.
Next game is at home with the frisky Magic, that started the season 5-20 but are 17-12 since then even with Paolo hitting the rookie wall a bit, so watch out, extreme focus is needed.
Play(s) Of The Game:
Not “plays” but “sequences”.
The biggest one (Courtesy of Z-Man):
4TH 3:35 Jalen Brunson misses free throw 2 of 2 (Phi 90 NY 95)
4TH 3:32 Isaiah Hartenstein offensive rebound
4TH 3:22 Miles McBride makes 23-foot three point jumper (Evan Fournier assists PHI 90 NY 98)
I-Hart snatched the board under a sleeping Embiid’s nose, Evian drove and kick to Deuce in the corner: bang!
With Brunson and Randle on the floor this was all cooked by the Bench Mob, and after that 76ers couldn’t made it a two possessions game anymore, basically the game ended there.
The other:
10:15 Miles McBride makes 23-foot three point jumper (Isaiah Hartenstein assists Phi 82 Ny 79)
9:29 Obi Toppin makes 24-foot three point jumper (Jalen Brunson assists Phi 82 NY 82)
9:15 Isaiah Hartenstein blocks Shake Milton’s driving layup (Phi 82 Ny 82)
9:12 Obi Toppin makes free throw 2 of 2 (Phi 82 NY 83)
Philly looked poised to retake control and went up by 6, but this sequence stymied their momentum and they never lead (or tied) again.
Stats Of The Day:
-43 Starters plus/minus.
+98 Bench plus/minus.
39-36. Knicks’ edge in FTA. It didn’t feel that way during the game, not for a moment. And we missed too much of them (11).
Grades:
Brunson B
He spoiled us a bit in the last few games. Didn’t shoot well (6-16, 4 missed FTs) but is hard to complain when in a “just decent” game you get a 21-5-7 line, especially after years of PG’s famine…
Quickley C+
He’s in a bit of a cold streak in february (8 PPG, 8-28 FG, the last 3 games), we’ve already seen spells like this, he’ll be back.
Grimes B-
He attacks closeout with the best of them, his cuts to the basket give good vibes to my basketball soul and his BB-IQ is nice.
He needs to become more reliable on open looks and he’s too small when forced to play the “3” role, but isn’t his fault.
Randle B-
Strange game for our All-Star. His shot was off (1-8 3FG) but he sank at least 3 very difficult high-arching pseudo-floater.
The 7 assists were good, his turnovers were of trademark variety, at times I was a bit confused by his body language.
He went to the line 8 times and to be honest he deserved more because he was mauled time and again without a whistle.
Sims B
8 points and 7 boards facing Embiid? I take it. He knocked out Paul Reed in the bout for “Best 58th pick of the century”.
McBride A
23 minutes, 14 points, plus-34. I’m so happy for the kid.
February’s Deuce is a rotation player (8 PPG, 9-17 FG) and his confidence’s growing. Keep it going Deuce!
Fournier A
Vibes of his MSG debut (it feels like a long time ago), his effort on defense was just as important as his offensive exploits, he fought with Harden in the true sense of the word.
As he said in his postgame he’s expecting to be benched again, but as far as one night stand goes it was the fuck of the season.
Toppin B-
He didn’t shine but his aforementioned three was very import and it took unconsciousness and cojones.
Hartenstein A
Another very good game (14 rebounds), he held his own against Embiid and, good or bad, he was as usual in the middle of everything.
We’ll never know the truth about his achilles but “this” player is one of the best backup centers in the league.
Thibs A
Freed from Barrett’s shackles he went with the hot hands, defrost Fournier and did mix lineups very well, even keeping IQ and Grimes on the bench for long stretches.
Plus, he deserves accolades for the team spirit.
He still needs an offensive coordinator, especially to draw inbounds plays…
Fred Katz wrote that piece a while back about how it only seems like the Knicks have more blown leads than other teams, in part because we have fewer instances where the reverse is true, because we don’t have the firepower to go on big runs when in a deep hole. But both Saturday and Sunday, we sure as hell did, even if only the second won resulted in a W.
So proud of Fournier for doing that after being in the dungeon for so long, and also for the even-keeled postgame comments where he recognized that he is dungeon-bound as soon as RJ is back. Fournier hasn’t shot well overall this year, so I can’t entirely kill Thibs for banishing him. But this version of him is absolutely a player the team could use.
Hopefully it greases the wheels on a trade sooner!
Man, if the Nets don’t add another point guard to their team, there is at least a possibility that the Knicks and the Heat can rise into the top six before the year is up.
If the Knicks and Nets actually made trades with each other, iHart for one of the Nets redundant wings would probably make a good deal of sense, even if we’d suffer in the short-term with Sims as our only real center. All the Nets beat writers say that if they’re not going to use their new capital to try to bring in a true number 2 for Durant, then they need “a backup center who can hit free throws.”
But since that’s not happening, who’s out there at the wing who might actually be available and not terribly expensive?
Seems like the Nets should draft Edey. He can hit free throws at least
Oh, I would never trade Brunson for Kyrie.
I was imagining pairing the two in a Walt & Earl kind of way, and thinking about the upgrade from RJ Barrett to Kyrie (which is about as big an upgrade as could be possibly made in a starting lineup).
Obviously it couldn’t be done in a straight fashion; Brooklyn has no use for Barrett. I was thinking of three-and-four-way deals where we use RJ, Obi, IQ, and our draft picks to acquire the pieces Brooklyn would want.
Given that Kyrie was available for so little, we still would have had enough left over to get the final piece, and Kyrie undoubtedly would have been able to recruit him.
But I guess it’s better to pretend Kyrie is the fictional character created for clickbait than to get one of the greatest players of all time at a ridiculously low cost.
Max,
You missed one rating.
I’d give RJ an A+ for getting sick before the game.
Thibs should play Fournier some. Go back to a 10 man rotation.
Brunson/McBride
Grimes/IQ
RJ/Fournier
Randle/Obi
Mitch/Hart
The bench is playing so much better, even beyond last night. If McBride can chip in 8 points a game efficiently it changes so much. Brunson can rest more, defense improves even more because McBride gets a few more minutes, etc. If Hart was dealing with an injury and is now healthy, that changes things even more.
And then if Thibs has the balls to give Fournier minutes every game and keep RJ on a much tighter leash going forward, that changes things too.
Just make some trades for Cam and Rose, otherwise call it a day.
Unless we can get OG for RJ and 2 picks.
Or, you know, RJ and 5 picks for Durant. 🙂
In pure basketball terms, Kyrie is an upgrade over Brunson, but they had to give up DFS and Dinwiddie to do it. DFS is arguably the best defender on the team and a good spacer for Doncic and Dinwddie was pretty critical for them off the bench in their run last year. They have more moves to make just to get back to where they were.
There some talk in Dallas of removing the protection from our Dallas pick and how that would free them to use a couple of their other 1st round picks in subsequent trades.
I’m not sure how that works.
On the one hand, I’d say “Sure”, maybe Donic will get hurt and we’ll wind up with a lottery pick”.
One the other hand I’d say, “We are getting that pick this year anyway. So why should we do you any favors unless you throw us a 2nd rounder?”
So why should we do you any favors unless you throw us a 2nd rounder?
Yeah, I mean I think that is how that would have to work. We have the right to keep the protection or not so even though it in theory could benefit us, we could say “only if you give us something.” They probably would be willing to do it since the odds of them totally flaming out of the playoffs if Doncic stays healthy are very slim.
But yeah, let’s squeeze them for some second rounders. We tend to draft pretty well in the second round, so why not?
As much as I’m a fan of Kyrie, I think the Mavs were hilariously stupid for making this trade.
I only see two paths for them:
A) Commit max money to Kyrie and ask him and Luka to win a title with no support.
B) Lose Kyrie for nothing this summer and make Luka go it all alone.
Either way, I don’t see Luka finishing his contract out in Dallas.
It’s a shame Mills and Perry didn’t have the foresight to extract future firsts from Dallas instead of opting for the near-term fix. It’s going to take a long time, but I think the unprotected pick Brooklyn acquired in this deal will eventually balance the scales of this trade’s perceived inequality.
LOL
Honestly I thought about it 🙂
But I still have a faint of hope that “The Most Maddening Player I’ve Ever Seen” can become a useful player… or a nice trade piece 😉
I would rather pay Deuce McBride a rookie max extension than offer a single top-59 protected second rounder for Kyrie Irving.
I think Kyrie leaving this summer is a feature, not a bug. They can create around $30M in cap space this offseason, and they weren’t going anywhere with the previous roster.
Cuban reminds me of a hyperactive stock investor that moves from stock to stock based on the very last quarterly data without ever understanding the long term intrinsic value of anything he’s trading. When it’s all over he winds up with a load of commissions and a worse return than if had done nothing at all to the original portfolio. How this guy made billions and more importantly “kept it” is a mystery to me. I may have to reconsider “luck” as a real thing but too metaphysical for us to understand because the math should have caught up by now. 🙂
Cuban has his warts but his trade to acquire Luca Doncic is one of the most brilliant moves in the history of the NBA. If nothing else, he makes big, bold moves. This one might be dumb, but it’s big and bold.
Hubert the Nets intentionally didn’t deal with the Lakers, so we already know there were some non-basketball considerations here. I highly doubt we were ever in play.
I won’t litigate the “fictional character created for clickbait” issue because that risks totally derailing what should be a celebratory thread, but as a purely factual matter the guy played 143 of a possible 278 games for the Nets. His, um, eccentricities actual matter a lot.
“Cuban has his warts but his trade to acquire Luca Doncic is one of the most brilliant moves in the history of the NBA. If nothing else, he makes big, bold moves.”
When you swing for the fences all the time, you’ll probably hit some homeruns and probably strike out a lot. That was one of his homeruns. But it’s the net of all your at bats over a longer period of time that tells you if the batter is actually any good. I’m not impressed with most of his basketball moves. I think a significant part of his success in basketball and perhaps business also has been short term luck because I’ve yet to hear a coherent consistent method of thinking in either. Unless you believe in some kind of metaphysical luck (that was said in jest), luck eventually runs out. But It does take courage to swing for the fences that I don’t have. So I’ll give him that.
Have to take some risks to get out of purgatory. Pretty much no way to do it without them.
Take this with a grain of salt because it’s Stephen A., but:
The same was reported over the summer but I can no longer find the article because of all the new Kyrie articles, so we have to live with the Stephen A quote.
Dallas is talking about using more 1st round picks to fill out the rest of the team – which they probably need to do to be competitive after this.
As it stands, Doncic, Irving, and Wood is probably the best #1, #2 and #3 punch in basketball. But they may need to play 40 minutes each and score 140 points to win.
If the Kyrie gamble blows up in Dallas’s face, I can’t see how Doncic stays. They’ll be a mess and without picks to trade to rebuild quickly or to at least draft talent along the way.
You’re most likely correct, Noble, about Brooklyn not wanting to trade him to us. We would have had to pay a major premium at the very least.
I suppose if you’re on Team Buy Low On Kyrie Irving (apparently a lonelier place that Ntilikina Island), trading him to Dallas is great news. Instead of having to pay an arm and a leg to trade with Brooklyn, all we have to do now is clear enough cap space to sign him outright or just do a sign and trade with Dallas after Kyrie calls his shot.
I would buckle up, haters. I think you’ll be hearing a lot about Kyrie to the Knicks this summer.
“Have to take some risks to get out of purgatory. Pretty much no way to do it without them.”
There are well thought out risks where you have a lower that ideal probability of success but a positive expectation over the long haul and there are wild man risks where you are praying to get lucky on an unsound move.
Why would anywhere here want Kyrie even if Brooklyn was willing to trade with us?
We have a very good PG that is a positive locker room and culture presence that’s helping make us a better and make us a more attractive destination in trades.
Kyrie has been poison to multiple locker rooms and cultures and wouldn’t move the needle enough to be worth the trouble.
Dallas did because they are desperate to keep Doncic and had to put someone next to him fairly quickly that would actually help and show they are trying. But if it blows up, IMO they are in even bigger danger of losing Doncic.
Kyrie is by far the best player Doncic has ever teamed up with and there’s really no contest here, but there’s just no way betting on Kyrie is a good choice, I’m sorry. He wanted to leave Cleveland to leave Lebron’s shadow and have his own team, had an incredible opportunity to do so with the Celtics and it failed miserably. Then he wanted Brooklyn to team up with other stars again, got Kevin Durant of all people and James Harden on his team, and still managed to fuck that situation up. He’s been in perfect situations basketball wise for almost his entire career and still manages to find ways to screw up everything.
It might work, I don’t know, maybe he stays quiet for a couple of seasons and works well with Luka, but this is a flat out desperation move from Cuban because he sees the writing is on the wall on Luka wanting to leave soon if they did nothing. I would not be happy or confident right now if I was a Mavs fan.
Kyrie has now quit on 3 different title contenders. I don’t really want him.
Why is he staying happy playing next to Brunson & Randle when he wasn’t happy next to KD or Lebron or Tatum & Brown?
I foresee Kyrie’s knee acting up again if he’s ever in a Knicks uni.
The reason you’d want Kyrie is obvious — he’s a tentpole superstar.
This whole thing isn’t always about making the “safe” call. That’s the road to purgatory.
If we wait 2-3 years for RJ, Grimes, IQ, Deuce, Mitch, Sims, Hartenstein (if he re-signs), and Toppin (if he re-signs) to be in their prime, then we’re also out of purgatory.
We should be building towards then, not now.
I’m at such a loss trying to predict how the Kyrie Mavs tenure will go. I know he’s the best player Doncic has ever played with for sure, I know Kyrie has successfully been a 1B in the past, and I have a strong inkling Doncic is delighted to have someone who can lighten his load and will have no problem adjusting accordingly. It should be a pretty smooth fit…
…on paper.
Realistically even if all goes well I don’t think they can throw together a good enough defense to truly contend, but no one will want to play the “all goes well” version of that team in the playoffs.
Anywho, it could be the case with Fournier that it’s not realistic to play him ~12 minutes a game and expect him to be in rhythm. I don’t think that would be an unreasonable quirk for someone who is used to playing starter’s minutes. If that’s the case, we should probably still look to trade him.
I do really like that guy though and wish it worked out better here.
The idea that Kyrie Irving would come to the Knicks and it would work out in any positive kind of way is just hilarious. That would have a one trillion percent chance of blowing up in our faces in epic LOLKnicks fashion.
He wouldn’t even wait six months, he’d just start eating the Vaseline out of the jar at the introductory press conference.
As it stands, Doncic, Irving, and Wood is probably the best #1, #2 and #3 punch in basketball.
Better than Randle, Brunson and Fournier?
Kyrie is one of the most talented basketball players I’ve ever seen, but I’d much rather stay in purgatory, than ever see him in a Knicks uniform. He’s just a restless soul, as my grandmother used to say, and I don’t think there is anything anybody can do about it.
If this is purgatory, it’s not so bad and we have plenty of company.
The Mavs were the #24 defense in the league before this trade, and just sent out their best defender. Kyrie himself isn’t exactly stour on that end of the floor. Obviously Kyrie is a net upgrade for them, but I just don’t know how far you can go in the playoffs with what would appear to be a bottom five defense.
The move also clears up their glut at PF/C. They still have Powell/Wood/Kleber which isn’t a bad rotation in a vacuum. I think they try and make another move for a plus defender. Maybe throw a 1st at Utah for Vanderbilt or PHX for Jae Crowder.
They should probably try and move Wood for a better defender.
The metrics don’t actually hate Kyrie or Luka on defense. They do hate Dinwiddie a lot though.
Kyrie will never, ever, ever wear a Knicks uniform. Neither will Kevin Durant.
I mean, is anyone here brain-fogged enough to forget who our owner is? Like maybe the single most petty, shallow, vindictive power broker in the entire sports galaxy?
And that he and his front office were battered into a grotesque laughingstock by KD and Kyrie after he himself that the Knicks “will have a very successful offseason when it comes to free agents” obviously referring to those two?
And how KD afterwords proclaimed that “the cool thing right now is not the Knicks…”?
And how since then the hated Nets have experienced nothing but humiliation, largely due to Kyrie?
And how Kyrie is utterly reviled by the vast majority of the Jewish community that happens to make up a major portion of the Knicks fan base, not to mention that the POBO is Jewish…
And how KD tried to fuck the Nets going into the season with a trade demand that tanked his trade value?
But sure, let’s ignore all of these things and troll all the “haters” about Kyrie being on the team’s radar this coming offseason.
“Kyrie himself isn’t exactly stour on that end of the floor.”
If stour means very shitty, I would disagree….
“Powell/Wood/Kleber which isn’t a bad rotation in a vacuum”
I think it’s a terrible rotation, but hey, that’s just me…
Not saying I’d want him, but it’s worth noting that prime Kyrie Irving would be the best player we’ve had in the past 50 years. We are a historically asset/talent poor franchise. Adding an asset like that on the cheap at least moves the needle on our chance of escaping purgatory.
Standing pat and waiting 2-3 years with our present team does not, because we put all our eggs in the basket of one #3 pick panning out and he has turned out to be a replacement level player.
Regardless of the merits of this move, taking swings to hit some home runs is undoubtedly superior to our approach, which all but rules home runs out.
Z-man, I suspect JK meant “stout”, not “stour”, and it was a typo. At least that’s how I interpreted it.
The issue is still that this uber talented player, which Kyrie undoubtedly is, is incredibly unreliable in the worst way. He’s had both injury issues AND crazy issues everywhere he went and those were 3 of the best imaginable destinations for a star in the NBA. How can you possibly trust the guy after all of this?
Could not have less interest in Kyrie at any point. Give me Brunson all day long.
I think the Mavs could pick up a good defender before the deadline and feel great about this. If Kyrie can fill the Brunson role they should be able to replicate what they had last year. They have to get Kleber healthy. Wood too. But it’s not crazy to me.
With a nod of appreciation to Jowles (always), this whole Kyrie as a big swing that could work on the Knicks makes me think of this:
‘A new survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 4% of respondents consumed or gargled diluted bleach solutions, soapy water and other disinfectants in an effort to protect themselves from the coronavirus.’
I mean, it’s an excellent disinfectant, so it should solve this whole purgatorial pandemic thing…
if there’s anybody who can break through to kyrie that isn’t lebron.. and it’s unclear whether lebron can actually do it now…. it might actually be nico harrison…. nico harrison was actually one of kobe’s inner circle people that he trusted and kobe was one of the guys kyrie looks up to…. nico and kyrie themselves have a relationship going back through that kobe and nike connection… that’s not to say he’s some sort of nba whisperer who breaks through to players… but from all that i’ve heard about him he’s not bred from the same cloth as the other front office people kyrie has had to deal with….
also cuban for all his warts is not a dumb person…. they didn’t actually give up much and at worst this is a cap clearer if they decide they can’t commit to kyrie… if they choose to go four years they’ll probably wind up regretting it but the trade itself was a nobrainer for them where they essentially freeroll a kyrie rental… and that might actually be their plan at the end of the day….
KFNINJ was just messing with JK. Agreed with him and then some.
Prime Kyrie is better than prime Ewing? BLASPHEMOUS.
From a basketball/non-fan of the Mavs point of view, I think it was a very good move. Kyrie is playing for his next contract so will not quit on them this season, they can lose him for nothing and have the cap space created by the trade for other Doncic approved players.
But as a life-long Knick fan, I would never want him on the team–even if you told me that there would be a championship guaranteed. Sleazeball Dolan is hard enough to stomach; the combo of him and Kyrie would stop me rooting, taking with it one of my life’s little enjoyments.
and the kyrie knicks speculation is crazy.. i have no idea where that came from… but the more funner speculation is a KD trade to the knicks who actually would significantly move us up the win curve and you could absolutely call us contenders at that point….
kyrie’s good but he’s not so good where he can carry your team anymore and he’s just not reliable to show up to games…. at this point brunson is probably better when you factor all that in…..
RJ and 5 firsts for KD.
I will keep saying it until I actualize it. So what if KD spurned us or if he said we weren’t cool. We’re cool now and he would make us instant contenders.
We could slot KD in at shooting guard. Not a perfect fit but Thibs can figure it out.
KD is far less abhorrent to me than Kyrie. I still would rather look elsewhere for a big fish, but if he’s the guy, it’s all good. I just don’t think Dolan would let it happen, stupidity be damned!
Re: Kyrie, just from a strict basketball perspective, sure, he’s a HOF-level offensive player. But he’s turning 31 next month and has been injury-prone his entire career. Cuban has not offered an extension yet, which speaks volumes.
Still, it’s a good move for Dallas no matter what. He needs to appease Doncic and this trade goes far to do that. There’s no team in the West that is truly scary right now…and Doncic + Kyrie is a lethal combo on offense. And if they can just put a servicable group of two-way players around them, they could theoretically get to the finals.
But there’s considerable downside too. If Kyrie either gets hurt or melts down, or something else leads to an early playoff exit, then what?
hey DRed, i hope yourself and your family are doing okay today…my thoughts and prayers are with you…
Then you took a sensible risk and it didn’t pan out. Way better than the safe, low ceiling, boring alternative.
I wonder if trading RJ + picks for OG is even being considered by either side. Would Masai even consider the marketing angle? Does he view RJ positively at all on his current deal?
i expect the kyrie thing to end in smoke and flames…like pretty much everything else the guy touches…he has like negative emotional quotient, and he ain’t making it up by being smart…
i’m not that big a fan of the mavs, so – i’m here for that show…no doubt they’ll be some promising moments along the way for the mavs, but, yeah…
For starters, because a backcourt of Brunson and Kyrie is infinity times better than Brunson and RJ Barrett.
“The Mavs were the #24 defense in the league before this trade, and just sent out their best defender. Kyrie himself isn’t exactly stour on that end of the floor. Obviously Kyrie is a net upgrade for them, but I just don’t know how far you can go in the playoffs with what would appear to be a bottom five defense.”
I understand the deal, but think it’s likely to end badly.
The Mavs were already way too thin. They needed a rim protecting defensive C and a backup PG because they lost Brunson and had to start Dinwiddie. Now they’ve given up arguable their best defender, a good spacer, and a good long term contract in DFS, their only other ball handler in Dinwiddie, and a 1st rounder.
So how do they get their backup PG, C, and replace DFS?
If they run with this team they may have the best offense in the NBA, but they’ll have to play Doncic, Irving, and Wood 40 minutes and score 140 points every night.
So the story is they may ask the Knicks to take the protection off their 1st round pick so they are free to trade a couple of others. Then they’ll use those other picks to get the remaining role players.
That’s a great plan IF they keep Kyrie and he doesn’t melt down.
It’s not such a great plan if he melts down, they are right back to where they were or worse, but have potentially exhausted 3 1st rounders and several 2nd rounders.
If they punt on Kyrie because he melts down, they’ll have cap space next year, but it’s no lock any star will want to come and they’ll still have to replace Wood and Powell.
We’ll see what they do next, but they are very top heavy and have some gaping holes in depth and on defense.
“Then you took a sensible risk and it didn’t pan out. Way better than the safe, low ceiling, boring alternative.”
Additionally, if it doesn’t pan out, you still have the most valuable trade asset in the NBA with which to start a rebuild locked up through 2026-27 at a ridiculously low (for him) salary. Even if Luka demanded a trade, there’d still be a soft landing.
“For starters, because a backcourt of Brunson and Kyrie is infinity times better than Brunson and Barrett.”
Almost any starting SG/SF in the NBA is better than Barrett right now. 🙂
We’d be giving up all kinds of ammo for an idiot that is highly likely to destroy years of effort and pain turning this team into a respectable franchise without all the drama that made us an unattractive laughing stock for years. There’s reason no one wanted to come here for years but do now.
“The Mavs were already way too thin. They needed a rim protecting defensive C”
Which is one of the easiest thing to find at low cost in today’s NBA.
“…and a backup PG because they lost Brunson and had to start Dinwiddie”
Not really because between Doncic and Kyrie you can allot all 48 PG minutes by having one of them on the floor at all times. Any vet’s minimum or rookie deal PG can serve as a backup so long as they stay healthy.
They have enough to fill in the blanks with low-cost options and still have a shot at the conference finals.
Uhhh… the Mavs have a backup PG—Kyrie. Or Doncic. They don’t need another one.
“Additionally, if it doesn’t pan out, you still have the most valuable trade asset in the NBA with which to start a rebuild locked up through 2026-27 at a ridiculously low (for him) salary. Even if Luka demanded a trade, there’d still be a soft landing.”
Being forced to trade Luka is a monumental disaster of epic proportions no matter how many picks you get. The absolute maximum number is still not enough because wherever he goes, they are automatically going to be very good for many years to come, you are never going to get another Luka with those picks, and it may set you back 5-10 years just drafting and developing with a clean slate.
So Dallas’s rotation is now:
Kyrie
Doncic
Wood
Kleber
TH2
Bullock
Powell
Green
Markieff
Maybe Frank?
Maybe Hardy?
They have enough to scrounge for another player or two, plus some waived players like a John Wall or something…
To elaborate on this, if Kyrie wants to come to the Knicks this summer, we could do a sign-and-trade with Dallas where we send out RJ Barrett and Evan Fournier. And Dallas would probably do that, because they would get nothing if he went to the Lakers. And he’d be on the Lakers.
It’s warm here on Kyrie Island. I’ll save a seat for you.
>Uhhh… the Mavs have a backup PG—Kyrie. Or Doncic. They don’t need another one.<
They have two players that can play PG and both start.
Last year they played Doncic and Brunson together and Dinwiddie was the backup PG. If any one of those guys got hurt they were a bit thin. This year it was Doncic and Dinwiddie starting and if either one was hurt they were screwed.
Now they have Doncic and Kyrie which is superior to Doncic and Brunson, but no Dinwiddie and no 4th player if one of the two is out.
They need a backup PG and maybe even a 4th string PG.
“Being forced to trade Luka is a monumental disaster of epic proportions no matter how many picks you get. The absolute maximum number is still not enough because wherever he goes, they are automatically going to be very good for many years to come, you are never going to get another Luka with those picks, and it may set you back 5-10 years just drafting and developing with a clean slate.”
Or it might not if you do it smartly. Utah just traded it’s two franchise players and are actually even better set up for the future than they were pre-trade. The Pels are coming around after trading AD.
I don’t see any circumstance in which it makes sense for us to remove protections on this year’s 1st.
The chance that a few extra DAL wins lowers the draft slot of this year’s 1st outweighs the benefit of a 2nd rd pick. I’d want a lot for it.
Man, reading all this Kyrie talk after the Knicks best win of the season is like watching flag football. Fuck that guy- Deuce is loose!
They can stagger Kyrie & Doncic’s minutes. I don’t see why they wouldn’t do that. They only lost 1 PG in the trade and they got 1 back.
If both go down, you’re running the offense through Wood. You’re also losing all those games anyway.
If you’re really desperate, play Frank or McKinley Wright IV or Jaden Hardy.
Or if you’re really, really desperate you can re-sign Kemba Walker.
“Which is one of the easiest thing to find at low cost in today’s NBA.”
It’s easy to get a garbage player. If it’s so easy to get a starting caliber rim protecting C why haven’t they been able to get one for so many years? They were so desperate this year they gave McGee 3 years and now they are looking at Nerlens (who would be a great idea if he was healthy but he’s not).
“Not really because between Doncic and Kyrie you can allot all 48 PG minutes by having one of them on the floor at all times. Any vet’s minimum or rookie deal PG can serve as a backup so long as they stay healthy.”
They aren’t going to be able to win a championship with a strategy like that. One of them is going to be hurt from time to time and you don’t want to play guys huge minutes. They need a legit backup.
They are going to have add some solid role players and it’s probably going to cost them. Also, if they give a contract to Wood now or trade him for a player they want to keep long term, there goes some of the cap space they’d have if they let Kyrie go.
IMO this a huge bet on Kyrie staying healthy, not melting down, and will require using up more of their future picks than they did in the Kyrie deal unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat with another trade or two.
I don’t think the Mavs paid so low a price for Irving. Dinwiddie and Finney Smith are good players, not throw-ins; and the pair of them are probably worth at least two first round picks if traded separately, if not more. So the Mavericks gave up the equivalent of at least three first round picks for a player on an expiring contract who will be quite expensive to re-sign.
Kyrie hasn’t missed many games from injury recently. He’s missed games for being a dumbass.
“They can stagger Kyrie & Doncic’s minutes. I don’t see why they wouldn’t do that. They only lost 1 PG in the trade and they got 1 back.”
Part of the reason they were struggling this year was that they had no backup PG after they lost Brunson. Dinwiddie was the backup last year and started this year. When Doncic was out it all on Dinwiddie and vice versa. Now you have Doncic and Irving, but Irving is more likely to miss time than Dinwiddie. IMO, they need someone solid off the bench. You can get away with that kind of nonsense for a few games, but not long term.
“I don’t think the Mavs paid so low a price for Irving. Dinwiddie and Finney Smith are good players, not throw-ins; and the pair of them are probably worth at least two first round picks if traded separately, if not more. So the Mavericks gave up the equivalent of at least three first round picks for a player on an expiring contract who will be quite expensive to re-sign.”
100%
Even if you want to debate Dinwiddie’s value a bit given his salary, DFS is highly regarded as a 3&D player on an attractive long term contract. Non Mavs fans don’t understand DFS’s value.
Sure, except there’s a very good chance that you end up with a backcourt of Brunson and nothing, because you can’t count on Kyrie to play. He might decide he doesn’t feel like it, and say his foot hurts, and shut himself down. Or he might actually get hurt, which happens pretty often too. Then there’s the fact that he’s entering his decline phase, and he’s not going to be giving anybody 7 BPM seasons anymore. The risk here is higher than the reward. The reward is that this douchebag wins you a chip (not likely) and the risk is… everything else.
The difference between the offense being all on Kyrie and the offense being all on Dinwiddie is not small.
Kyrie hasn’t missed many games from injury recently. He’s missed games for being a dumbass.
A brain injury is also an injury.
Yeah sure trading Doncic would get you back a lot of picks. That still doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be an epic fail to draft this generation’s best player and waste the first half of his career with nothing to show for it but one WCF.
I wouldn’t put Mitchell or Gobert or even AD on the same level as Doncic. This is losing prime Lebron level fail. Yes you get picks. But none of them would be lottery picks. Hell, you could have 10 top 5 lottery picks and the odds of drafting another Luka are still slim. Luka’s only come around every 4 or 5 drafts, if that.
“The difference between the offense being all on Kyrie and the offense being all on Dinwiddie is not small.”
It’s also definitely not as big as some people are making it out to be. Kyrie is no longer the 7 BPM player he used to be in his Boston years, and when you count availability, well, he has played less than 50% of the possible games as a Nets either due to craziness or injury.
Dinwiddie will obviously get you lower volume in terms of scoring but they’re very close efficiency wise in the .600 ts% region. Obviously I’d trade a player like Dinwiddie for a player like Kyrie in a vacuum, but this is so obviously a situation where context matters that I can’t really see the positive arguments.
“Kyrie hasn’t missed many games from injury recently. He’s missed games for being a dumbass.”
Hard to get injured when you are being a non-playing dumbass….
I don’t see Texas implementing a covid mandate anytime soon…
Kyrie’s 4.5 OBPM is a huge step up from Dinwiddie’s 2.1 OBPM. His 3.6 overall BPM is a massive improvement over Dinwiddie’s 0.9 BPM.
“This is losing prime Lebron level fail. Yes you get picks. But none of them would be lottery picks.”
If CLE got what LeBron was worth when he left them for nothing, their rebuild would not have been nearly as painful.
For Doncic, you could get all-star level players plus a multitude of picks. You could essentially turn Dallas into the current version of the Knicks. Not great, but hardly as catastrophic as losing a player like that for nothing in return.
Another example is the Thunder. They lost Durant for nothing and Harden for peanuts. If they had gotten the haul for those players that they were worth, they wouldn’t have had to go through a 3-year tanking period. Even so, they have SGA and a billion assets.
Anyway, the point isn’t to say that if they lost Doncic it would not be a disaster. The point is that they were smart to roll the dice on Kyrie because it makes it less likely that they will lose Doncic. But if they do get to where it seems likely that Doncic might leave and they have nothing else to do to keep him, they might as well trade him to avoid losing him for nothing, like CLE and OKC lost their generational player for nothing.
Re: Deuce, my hope for him when he was drafted was for him to become a mini-Marcus Smart except less of a hothead. So far, so good! (and he’s definitely not as ugly so there’s that…)
My very favorite part of every Knicks telecast is watching Deuce play middle linebacker…
Agree 1000%. I honestly would ask for another 1st round pick lol. Or give us Reggie for filler
I know Tsai would never do it but…
KD for Randle + Fillers (Cam, Obi, Deuce) and ~6 first round picks would make a lot of sense.
One play that highlighted Deuce’s defensive impact took place at around the 7-minute mark when I still didn’t believe that we would pull this one out. Harden was isolated at the top of the key on Fournier and I was expecting either the pull-up 3 or the flail in the lane. But after Fournier dug in well to eat some clock, Deuce first hedged and then doubled at the FT line. Harden picked up the dribble and was forced to pass to Paul Reed who was met at the rim by Hart, forcing a 24-second violation. His timing and toughness on that kind of stuff is awesome, and so is that of IQ and Grimes.
You can see the play here on Tom Piccolo’s twitter feed if you scroll down:
https://twitter.com/Tom_Piccolo?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1622416079606652928%7Ctwgr%5Ea0e7d7e6c2cdddeb139abe3658a276a902cdc336%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.postingandtoasting.com%2F2023%2F2%2F5%2F23587179%2Fknicks-108-76ers-97-dynamic-duo-of-evan-fournier-and-deuce-mcbride
sounds like the price for Jared Vanderbilt is coming down — saw something on twitter about Jazz having an offer for multiple 2nds…
if we’re going to trade Obi, I’d be happy to bring Vanderbilt in. Need more rebounding and defense, and wonder whether his great rebounding #s might convince Thibs that he could be a small ball 5 in some settings…
RAPTOR
Irving: +5.7
Dinwiddie: -1.8
Finney-Smith: -0.2
RPM
Irving 5.61 (13th)
Dinwiddie: 3.34 (49th)
Finney-Smith: -0.05 (141st)
You could call it a heist if it weren’t so likely that Irving destroys the locker room by mid-April.
Going by BPM, yes. Ewing maxed out at 5.5 BPM while Kyrie has had 3 seasons over 7.
We remember Ewing fondly but he was a clear tier or two below Hakeem/Robinson/Shaq. Ewing was never better than 10th in the league in BPM, and neither has any other Knick since BPM was tracked. Kyrie has been as high as 5th.
We truly are the have-nots of the NBA. It’s staggering how little success we’ve had in our history. In the last 50 years we’ve never had an MVP level player or exceeded 60 wins, and it looks likely that we won’t in my lifetime.
Might be more to the Kyrie trade. They’re looking to bring Toronto in.
Don’t think BPM is capturing the fact Ewing led the best defense in NBA history, up until 96 anyway
Z-man, isn’t it strange that in the examples you’ve cited as disastrous, where teams lost generational talent for nothing:
-The team was better than the Knicks have ever been, and in contention much more recently than we were
-The team is has already acquired one or more players better than any player we’ve had in the last 50 years
– The team is in a far better overall position in terms of assets and future prospects than we are
It looks to me like even the strategy of “losing generational talent for nothing” beats our FO’s handily.
A mysterious tweet from JB. A trade on the horizon, a terrific deadline troll, or a secret third thing?
https://twitter.com/jalenbrunson1/status/1622705582074462215?s=46&t=dmaLVm3ay5QPKBufNgIPJA
Ewing played a part, to be sure, but that ’94 team was a murderer’s row defensively. Every rotation player was a plus defender and our top 14 players all had positive BPM.
Compare with the Spurs where Robinson puts up better DBPM than Ewing, but only 3 other players are positive. Houston was 2nd on defense, with a similar pattern. The eye test and individual numbers tend to agree that those guys were much better individually than Ewing on both O and D.
Brunson’s tweet was in reference to there being a Wawa in Orlando.
https://twitter.com/jalenbrunson1/status/1622705922198962180
“It looks to me like even the strategy of “losing generational talent for nothing” beats our FO’s handily.”
It helps to be lucky, but there is no substitute for sound decision-making around a sound plan. We have had neither since the Knicks traded for Earl Monroe. Even Ewing was acquired by dumb luck (or a frozen envelope, if you believe in such things.)
50 fucking years of generalized dumbness.
And yet here we are, you and me and everyone else on this board…the best board in the business. Go figure!
It bring me amusement to watch the devotees of a James Dolan owned team take the moral high road when it comes to which players they’d tolerate rooting for.
I’m not a Kyrie fan, or an acolyte, or a bro, or whatever the term is for the people he supposedly influences. He says and does stuff that is irksome to say the least. But these are ball players, not UN diplomats. I go into it assuming that everybody on the court would be a shitty person to date and just want to watch good basketball. Kyrie is different simply because he is transparent. Everybody else has a team PR guy telling them what to say is all. With Irving, what you see is probably what you get.
Dolan, though, he‘s different. He’s all the unlike but without the J and the cross-over. And all the glory of a championship that the fans think they get a part of actually goes to him. So, yeah, boo Kyrie.
*** I would buckle up, haters. I think you’ll be hearing a lot about Kyrie to the Knicks this summer.***
Charlie Ward’s “the Jews killed Jesus” blibber-blabber didn’t go over so well in NY back in the pre-woke, pre-twitter days. I think NY and LA are both complicated places for Kyrie to land. Hence him going to Dallas (while LeBron facetiously says “maybe it’s me?”)
I’m very sorry for your loss, DRed. It’s very hard, and only time will let us try to live with it. At least, i hope so. Lost my father a few days before last christmas, and for a time i wasn’t able to talk about it. That was also the reason why at the time i went silent here, at least for my standards. I think it was JK that put it in a way i’ve never thought about it, and it is the best definition i’ve ever seen – we’ll never be complete again. When we lose someone that is very important to us, some % of ourselves goes with them and we’ll only have the memories, sometimes places or objects, to try to “be” with that person again. Stay strong, my friend, and although faraway if you think i can help, i’m here.
I don’t care what the numbers say, Ewing was the best!
Yesterday i gave up on the game at halftime, so reading the game thread i had the chance to feel the building up to the W. Thanks for that, guys. This team never quits, which is a label that goes very well with NY. I want to improve the team, but please Leon, don’t mess up with the team chemistry.
Team chemistry seems very good at the moment. Apparently the whole team celebrated when Randle made the all star team. Also Fournier commented yesterday that Cam and Svi were also in the non playing contingent with him and were happy for him and really rooting for him when he suddenly got extended minutes yesterday.
Cyber, what was great about that game was not just the juicy early comeback (on Deuce’s short but wide back, of course…; ), but how they kept up the pressure and didn’t collapse, as per usual. I was less gripped with terror than normal in the fourth quarter. Which is an unusual emotion to (not) have.
Donnie, there’s really no hypocrisy, at least the way I see it.
Most everyone here would rather have someone other than Dolan be the owner/governor. If we had a wonderful owner/governor who was selling the team and Dolan was among the suitors, most everyone here would vehemently oppose Dolan getting the nod.
But he owns the Knicks so we deal with it. Since we have no choice as Knicks fans other than to do what you did, we want him to be successful because we choose to remain Knicks fans.
Same with player acquisitions. Some/many/most/all of us oppose the acquisition of certain players for non-basketball-related reasons. Yet when management acquires those players, Some/many/most/all of us root for those players to be successful while they are wearing a Knicks uniform. Derrick Rose and Damyean Dotson are recent examples. The same would hold for Kyrie, or Grayson Allen.
In summary, there’s no moral disconnect as a sports fan between protesting something before it happens and lamenting it but hoping for the best if it does regrettibly happen.
Donnie, I disagree with your take about Kyrie. There are certainly hold your nose type rooting interests all the time in sports. However, the Kyrie craziness differs for me in one significant way. He repeatedly and consistently quits on his teams. He gets paid massive amounts of money and doesn’t come to work. And I don’t mean he’s soft and often injured. I mean he quits. To me that changes the conversation. When people tell you who they are believe them. He’s a quitter.
That’s nice to hear. The team seems to be improving as the season goes on, let’s hope this time around we’ll be able to put up a fight in the playoffs. With the Garden roaring, it’ll be epic.
Gotta co-sign w/Donnie on this one. I mean, this team did trade for a guy who literally choked out his coach, and we loved the guy because he helped us to a Finals run and then some.
I’ve believed for some time that professional athletes, from a personality standpoint, are a microcosm of what personality types exist in our society. A lot of these folks are just regular dudes (good and bad) that happen to have extraordinary physical talents and the mind to use them.
I’d rather have x number of asshole players and owners than x+1 asshole players and owners
And that’s factorial
Since when is strangling your coach a bad thing?
Asking for a friend… or better “un ami”
I’m with cgreene on Kyrie. If he was just, uh, eccentric, that would be one thing. But he repeatedly quits on his teams. If he quit on the Celtics and Nets you have to figure he’d quit on us. I’m not going to psychoanalyze the guy. His record speaks for itself.
Not for nothing but PJ Carleismo had a very chokable face
just to clarify my position, not only do i think this move will not put the mavs past the 2nd round, in fact, i want this to end badly…i would find entertainment in that, petty as i am…
not to wish anyone significant ill fortune, i’d just be very okay with the mavs losing a lot of games and kyrie imploding once more – just to see doncic’s reaction…
oh yeah, maybe bring dirk in to the room too – hahahahahaha
100%, the phrase – are you crazy? gets spoken within like the first week of proximity…
.
I don’t see this as a direct counter to what Donnie said, although I’ll say this is more damning from purely a basketball on-court perspective with Irving.
awwwwwwwwww, what an AWESOME pic!!!
dang, i forget what i was about to say – i am speechless…all the blessings there is, and then some cdiggy…
Cdiggy – that’s exactly what I mean. The thing one hates about him the most is that his worst quality directly correlates to killing his team’s chances of winning. All of a sudden he is going to show up in Dallas and not try to get out of playing? This is a data driven blog and the data says that’s a very foolish bet. The other bullshit flat earth, uneducated opinions on religion whatever if the guy shows up and plays his balls off. (And I’m Jewish by the way!)
Say what you want about Sprewell. Dude came back after his punishment and balled out… for our Knicks.
Sometimes the best ability is availability
it’s not even that so much with kyrie, forget the games when he isn’t there, when he is there he seems a disruptive force also…cavs, celts – yay 🙂 , nyets…i don’t think it’s coincidence, and, i don’t think it’s a thing that can be changed…
and now the dallas mavericks…owned by a flamboyant personality with a way passionate and expressive star on the team…truly a star…
although, luka, kyrie and frank in the backcourt – could be a thing…
yessssss yes yes yes – return of the frank
Couldn’t all this be applied to Sprewell? Choking your coach directly correlates to killing your team’s chance of winning, by bringing about a suspension and possibly injuring/killing the coach. All of a sudden Spree is just going to show up and play, and not choke anyone?
It may be a bad bet, much as winning the lottery is. But as when you play the lottery, there is a prize that it’s possible to win. Compare this to our established strategy of buying the lottery ticket and then setting it on fire (incinerating, one might say), and you can definitely find some appeal.
Spree choked one (very chokeable) coach. Choking happens.
Kyrie’s choked the equivalent of multiple coaches. He’s a recidivist.
Now Korkmaz is demanding a trade? This is CHAOS
cam thomas looks like he might make a run at back to back 40 pt games
It’s fascinating that the Nets put off the deal trying to flip Dinwiddie.
That was the best trade the Knicks have made in 50 years. And people hated it.
We traded a washed John Starks along with Chris Mills and Terry Cummings for an star in his prime and people were pissed off.
And boy did they try to smear him when he got here. “I’ve been on losing teams, I know what it takes” and all that other shit. The sanctimony on WFAN was as bad as it could get.
And then he played well. And everyone loved him.
So yeah, if we can steal Kyrie Irving, we steal Kyrie Irving and never think twice about it.
We think about it twice when his knee “gets injured” until LA signs him in free agency
“The Z-Men of ‘99 were on WFAN all the time crying about how much they hated this guy.”
Nah, Z-man was fine with acquiring Latrell because what he did in an emotional tirade did not compare in the least what Kyrie did in premeditated fashion over a long period of time spanning three franchises. If you recall, I was never one of the folks bemoaning either Derrick Rose or Damyean Dotson playing for our team.
But one thing I never did is blame the media or susceptibility to clickbait for how folks felt about a given player, coach or owner. If Hubert wants to die on the “Kyrie is just a poor, misunderstood victim” hill, well, that tells you all you need to know about Hubert.
Batum can still ball.
Fun Nets game
For the record, I don’t believe Kyrie is a victim.
I do think he’s a great basketball player, and the intense hatred for him is irrational.
If he can be stolen this summer, I hope we steal him and put him in the same backcourt as Brunson.
Ptmilo, Cam Thomas did it. He scored 47 total.
The Nets starters all had positive plus minuses but their bench didn’t and they lost. They could be quite good even without Irving once Durant gets back and Dinwiddie and Finney Smith are available.
Sprewell made one awful mistake in a heated moment of passion. He was suspended for basically an entire season because of it and showed up to NYC humbled and was never a problem to his coaches or teammates again.
Kyrie has repeatedly sabotaged his team even after getting everything he’s ever wanted. He’s a jackass.
“…and the intense hatred for him is irrational.”
I don’t see anyone here expressing “intense hatred” for him. When I intensely hate someone, I wish for harm to come to them. Example: I intensely hate Vladimir Putin.
My feelings towards Kyrie are more in the category of “utter disgust.” I don’t wish any harm on him, just would rather not be in the position to have to choke back my vomit and root for him. I truly don’t care about the Knicks contending for a championship enough to not be aghast at the thought of him being one of the guys responsible for it.
As to “irrational,” I also believe that anyone that feels the way I do about him has plenty of rational reasons for feeling that way. His professional record and direct statements over the past few years are hardly debatable, and Kyrie is totally comfortable with and unrepentant about who he is and what he has said and done.
Which is fine! I’m totally okay with him plying his trade on another franchise. Just not the one I root for.
What strikes me as irrational is wanting someone with his resume as a member of one’s team. But I guess if winning is all one cares about, he theoretically can help you win. Although it seems that in both Boston and Brooklyn the team did better with him out of the lineup that in it, but I stipulate that there are non-Kyrie reasons for some of that.
Anyway, there is no reason to believe that the Knicks FO or owner is the least bit interested in acquiring Kyrie…now, this summer, or ever. I don’t see why it is even being discussed.
Anti-semitism is irrational hate. Dislike for Kyrie seems fairly rational.
Also, I think he’d quit on this team almost immediately and don’t want him for that reason. I don’t think he does that for Dallas or LA.
There’s little to no basis for many of these assumptions. Especially the one about Dolan not wanting Kyrie.
Dolan stood by Stephon Marbury when he date raped an MSG intern. He stood by Isiah Thomas when he sexually harassed Anucha Brown Sanders. He stood by Steve Mills when he tried to silence Sanders. He’s actually the perfect guy for Kyrie Irving.
Steph, Isiah and Mills were all disasters for the franchise who cost Dolan millions of dollars each and are all gone. Even so, all of them were loyal to Dolan, i.e. none of them spurned the Knicks in free agency while his sidekick mocked his franchise about it. If your point is that Dolan is an utter dirtbag and fans shouldn’t put anything past him, sure, whatever. But coveting a player who publicly spurned him is not his MO. Nor is there any indication that Kyrie has any interest in returning to a city with a large Jewish population that is largely disgusted by him. But sure, keep making shit up!
(PS the intern testified definitlvely in court that their sexual encounter was entirely consensual. If you are going to troll the board, you don’t have to criminalize Steph by using terms like “date-raped” to do so.)
I guess a great win isn’t enough.
I stand by my assessment, and you’d be wise to let this one guy. But alas, you’re Z-Man.
Sure, but when it gets to here:
I’m comfortable calling it irrational.
*** his worst quality directly correlates to killing his team’s chances of winning… This is a data driven blog and the data says that’s a very foolish bet.***
Since you mention it, the data says that Kyrie has never gone to a team and made it worse. The Cavs won a championship (for which he hit the series winning shot against the best team ever); the Celtics won 55 and 53 games with him making two all star teams; the Nets came within a literal inch of making the finals.
I’m not saying he’s not a distraction, and that he’s not injury prone. But he helps the teams he plays for more than he hurts them, per the data.
Did Browne Sanders explain how she read Decker’s mind?
I think they really have to make one more move to be an actual contender. They need a legit point guard. Whether it be VanVleet or whoever. I think you can compete with Dinwiddie as one of your guards, but he can’t be, like, the lead guard on a contender (well, unless the frontcourt were all All-Stars, of course).
I think the Nets would be fine if Durant were healthy. They would have a chance to make the Finals. Not a great chance but Durant took a team without Irving to the conference finals before. I don’t think this squad would be worse.
“I stand by my assessment, and you’d be wise to let this one guy. But alas, you’re Z-Man.”
You hve established without question that you believe second-hand innuendo over what someone actually says on the record. The nice thing about that is that you can create a fantasy world where anything you want to be true actually is true no matter what the evidence says. I guess you anf Kyrie have that in common, no wonder you are such a fan!
“Dislike for Kyrie seems fairly rational.”
“Sure, but when it gets to here:
I would rather pay Deuce McBride a rookie max extension than offer a single top-59 protected second rounder for Kyrie Irving.
I’m comfortable calling it irrational.”
I used an extreme scenario that had no chance of occurring to make my feelings clear. I would not want Kyrie Irving on the Knicks under any circumstances, period. There is nothing irrational about that at all. Nor is there anything irrational about you wanting him on the team. Other than the inherent irrationality of being a sports fan in general, and a Knicks fan in particular.