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Knicks Morning News (2022.12.23)

  • NBA Rumors: This Knicks-Wolves Trade Lands Karl-Anthony Towns – NBA Analysis Network
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 7:07:33 AM

    NBA Rumors: This Knicks-Wolves Trade Lands Karl-Anthony Towns  NBA Analysis Network

  • Magic Starting 5: Terrence Ross Trade Rumors to Lakers, Knicks – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 6:00:00 AM

    Magic Starting 5: Terrence Ross Trade Rumors to Lakers, Knicks  Sports Illustrated

  • How the New York Knicks saved my life – The Guardian
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 4:30:00 AM

    How the New York Knicks saved my life  The Guardian

  • Bulls vs. Knicks: Start time, where to watch, what’s the latest – Hoops Hype
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 3:39:37 AM

    Bulls vs. Knicks: Start time, where to watch, what’s the latest  Hoops Hype

  • Injury report: Lonzo Ball, Javonte Green, Derrick Jones Jr., Alex Caruso, Goran Dragic vs. New York Knicks – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 3:35:24 AM

    Injury report: Lonzo Ball, Javonte Green, Derrick Jones Jr., Alex Caruso, Goran Dragic vs. New York Knicks  Sports Illustrated

  • The keys to Chicago Bulls’ road game vs. New York Knicks – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 3:32:06 AM

    The keys to Chicago Bulls’ road game vs. New York Knicks  Sports Illustrated

  • Chicago Bulls vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds … – Stat Salt
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 1:51:48 AM

    Chicago Bulls vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds …  Stat Salt

  • Liberty’s Becky Hammon Among 2023 Hall of Fame Candidates – Knicks & NBA Tracker – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 1:45:28 AM

    Liberty’s Becky Hammon Among 2023 Hall of Fame Candidates – Knicks & NBA Tracker  Sports Illustrated

  • LA Lakers trade rumors: Cam Reddish of New York Knicks “intrigues” 17x NBA champions – Sportskeeda
    [news.google.com] — Friday, December 23, 2022 12:02:00 AM

    LA Lakers trade rumors: Cam Reddish of New York Knicks “intrigues” 17x NBA champions  Sportskeeda

  • Knicks’ RJ Barrett is heating up after another slow start – The Athletic
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 11:16:55 PM

    Knicks’ RJ Barrett is heating up after another slow start  The Athletic

  • Knicks’ Quentin Grimes could return vs. Bulls after injury status upgrade – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 8:27:00 PM

    Knicks’ Quentin Grimes could return vs. Bulls after injury status upgrade  New York Post

  • Quentin Grimes questionable to play in Knicks-Chicago rematch – Empire Sports Media
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 7:42:24 PM

    Quentin Grimes questionable to play in Knicks-Chicago rematch  Empire Sports Media

  • NBA Trade Rumors: Lakers ‘very intrigued’ by Cam Reddish – Silver Screen and Roll
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 7:10:39 PM

    NBA Trade Rumors: Lakers ‘very intrigued’ by Cam Reddish  Silver Screen and Roll

  • Kevin Durant: Knicks-Nets on Christmas ‘Would’ve Been Perfect’ – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 3:08:58 PM

    Kevin Durant: Knicks-Nets on Christmas ‘Would’ve Been Perfect’  Sports Illustrated

  • Chicago Bulls vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 12-23-2022 – Winners and Whiners
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 2:46:06 PM

    Chicago Bulls vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 12-23-2022  Winners and Whiners

  • Knicks, Quentin Grimes Hit a Painful, Telling Landmark – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 2:15:23 PM

    Knicks, Quentin Grimes Hit a Painful, Telling Landmark  Sports Illustrated

  • Hustle Defeat Knicks In NBA G League Winter Showcase – DeSoto County News
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 1:55:31 PM

    Hustle Defeat Knicks In NBA G League Winter Showcase  DeSoto County News

  • Lakers can’t match Knicks’ outrageous asking price for Cam Reddish – Lakeshow Life
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 1:00:00 PM

    Lakers can’t match Knicks’ outrageous asking price for Cam Reddish  Lakeshow Life

  • Tyrese Haliburton fires back at Wally Szczerbiak over ‘wannabe All-Star’ dig – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 12:55:00 PM

    Tyrese Haliburton fires back at Wally Szczerbiak over ‘wannabe All-Star’ dig  New York Post

  • NBA Trade Rumors: Lakers, Knicks Interested in Magic Vet Terrence Ross? – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 12:25:41 PM

    NBA Trade Rumors: Lakers, Knicks Interested in Magic Vet Terrence Ross?  Sports Illustrated

  • Q&A: Action Bronson on creating #NBAXMas Grub Guide, Knicks … – NBA.com
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 12:00:59 PM

    Q&A: Action Bronson on creating #NBAXMas Grub Guide, Knicks …  NBA.com

  • NBA trade rumors: Can Knicks land a star or should they focus on solidifying bench rotation? – DraftKings Nation
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 11:51:10 AM

    NBA trade rumors: Can Knicks land a star or should they focus on solidifying bench rotation?  DraftKings Nation

  • Knicks Trade Try for OG Anunoby from Raptors; Still Interested? – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 11:27:06 AM

    Knicks Trade Try for OG Anunoby from Raptors; Still Interested?  Sports Illustrated

  • Cam’ron doesn’t want Spike Lee attending Knicks games: “You’re bad luck” – Yahoo Entertainment
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 10:43:54 AM

    Cam’ron doesn’t want Spike Lee attending Knicks games: “You’re bad luck”  Yahoo Entertainment

  • Is NBA Lottery Draft Rigged? Closer Look at the Patrick Ewing and … – Sportsmanor
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 10:42:11 AM

    Is NBA Lottery Draft Rigged? Closer Look at the Patrick Ewing and …  Sportsmanor

  • Cam’ron Tells Spike Lee To Stop Attending New York Knicks Games – Yahoo Entertainment
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 10:24:20 AM

    Cam’ron Tells Spike Lee To Stop Attending New York Knicks Games  Yahoo Entertainment

  • New York Knicks tampered in their pursuit of Jalen Brunson, per NBA – Mavs Moneyball
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 10:00:00 AM

    New York Knicks tampered in their pursuit of Jalen Brunson, per NBA  Mavs Moneyball NBA imposes penalty on Knicks for early free agency discussions  NBA.comNBA docks Knicks 2025 second-round pick for Jalen Brunson tampering  New York Post

  • NY Knicks: 3 reasons Zach LaVine should be trade deadline target – Daily Knicks
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, December 22, 2022 8:00:00 AM

    NY Knicks: 3 reasons Zach LaVine should be trade deadline target  Daily Knicks

  • 55 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.12.23)”

    “If RJ is the leading minutes getter on a 19-15 team after playing like dogshit for 15 games or so, we must be missing something. Mitch isn’t Wilt, Randle isn’t LeBron, Grimes/Cam isn’t Michael Jordan, and Brunson, bless his heart, isn’t CP3. And no one on our bench is all that good either’

    I may be reading this out of context. But my new reference stat favored by our GM in waiting suggests that Randle, Mitch, and Grimes rate in the top 50 on EPM and Brunson is not far behind. And RJ is far behind.

    So why is this about RJ?

    Or were you making a joke I didn’t pick up on?

    Happy Festivus! But how do we celebrate it when every day on Knickerblogger features an Airing of the Grievances?

    The Bulls are coming to play tonight with revenge on their minds. We better be ready or it’s going to be 2 losses in a row with the 76ers up next.

    Just to elaborate, I think RJ’s value is underappreciated by the all-in-one stats. He fills a “space” that is hard to fill, and I doubt that plugging in a random wing with a higher EPM necessarily would result in a better team performance. He’s a weird kind of higher-usage glue guy.

    Of course this is entirely conjecture…but one I think will age well.

    I remember back in 2010-11 when WP48 and WS48 were all the rage and some were adamant that Tyson Chandler was the best player on the championship Mavs, and some like me argued that it was Dirk and that it wasn’t particularly close. Suffice it to say that that take was not warmly received by some respected posters. Meanwhile PER had Dirk ahead of Chandler (13.4 to 18.4) but god forbid anyone referred to PER as being more accurate than WS when considering differences in USG.

    We can now look back and see that according to BPM, widely regarded as a better metric than both WS and PER, Dirk was at 5.1 while Chandler was at 1.5. That is a huge difference in favor of Dirk.

    The point is that even the most “advanced” advanced stats are still to be viewed with some skepticism. Put differently, EPM is the worst all-in-one stat out there…except for all the rest.

    It’s fascinating, the Bullets are kind of in the same place we were back when we had Melo and KP: an aging star and… KP… piloting a sinking ship.

    And I get that they want to embrace the mid and keep their stars to sell tickets because they have to. Maybe if they just move Kuz and parts for some really good glue guy(s) they could make the play-in and get us our 1st rounder lol.

    “It’s fascinating, the Bullets are kind of in the same place we were back when we had Melo and KP: an aging star and… KP… piloting a sinking ship.”

    There’s some similarities. I wouldn’t call Beal an “aging” star at age 29…just an injury-prone star, kind of like AD.

    KP is playing rather well and while also injury-prone he isn’t detrimental and has some value on his contract. He’s not the albatross that Amare was. In fact, seems like WAS did a nice job in pivoting away from the Wall albatross…and then Russ.

    They just seem clunky and oft-injured, and their bench is terrible.

    And so far, Johnny Davis is looking like a huge miss in the draft…so they have the Frank and Knox thing down! Kispert, Rui, and Avdija aren’t all that exciting either. Drafting is not helping them.

    It will be interesting to see whether they pivot to an accidentank, which they should.

    You can argue that efficient low use players have hidden value a lot easier than you can argue that inefficient high use players have hidden value. Ruru tried it for years here, but he don’t do it no more.

    I struggle to believe Tyson at 28 was the fourth best player on that Mavs team. Or fifth best in the playoffs.

    Or that he wasn’t the best player in his first Knicks season when we went from 22nd to 5th on defense.

    I will buy that Jeremy Lin was better than Melo thst year. But this seems relevant.

    “What does this mean? Box Plus/Minus is good at measuring offense and solid overall, but the defensive numbers in particular should not be considered definitive. Look at the defensive values as a guide, but don’t hesitate to discount them when a player is well known as a good or bad defender.”

    Some people here have suggested swapping in Cam for RJ, and point to Cam’s efficiency. Some people have also pined for Mikal Bridges and a Brunson-Grimes-Bridges-Randle-Robinson lineup.

    Those things wouldn’t really work well, because that is just stuffing too many low usage players into your lineup. Either those guys will have to shoot more, or Brunson and Randle would have to push their usage to absurd levels.

    I think it’s clear that RJ is a better and more useful player than a guy like Cam, and that in general we do need a high usage wing, because we already have low usage players in the lineup in Grimes and Mitch. When RJ is playing passably well, the team starts to look pretty well balanced.

    When he’s stinking out the joint though, he really kills us.

    The all-in-one models don’t discredit guys enough who have to slough off shots to their teammates.

    At that point, we get to questions like, “Is he sloughing off shots because he has to, or because he wants to, or are his teammates taking them from him?” but that’s the art, not science, part of the whole enterprise — a/k/a the fun part.

    The thing I’ve never understood is why so many people so desperately yearn for a single metric that explains all.

    Cam’s clearly capable of higher usage if deployed properly. He’s not really your guy for “go stand in the corner every possession” duty.

    “You can argue that efficient low use players have hidden value a lot easier than you can argue that inefficient high use players have hidden value. Ruru tried it for years here, but he don’t do it no more.”

    Ruru made a lot of preposterous arguments about Melo. But there were some anti-Melo arguments made back then that look pretty dumb in retrospect. In his first 6 years his BPM was at 2.9 or higher, peaking at 5.0 in 2013-14. Maybe not max player stuff, and certainly not what Ruru stood by, but he was an excellent player for us for 6 straight years. Problem was always the lopsided trade and the max contract, not Melo’s play or impact on winning.

    In 2012-13, Melo’s BPM was 4.3 while Chandler was at 1.3, tied with JR Smith. Yet pity the fool who suggested at that time that Melo was a lot better than Mr. League-Low USG%.

    “I think it’s clear that RJ is a better and more useful player than a guy like Cam, and that in general we do need a high usage wing, because we already have low usage players in the lineup in Grimes and Mitch.”

    ***********************

    Exactly. (Not the Cam part, the other part, though the Cam part might be right.)

    If that high usage wing happens to be kind of inefficient, he gets hit with that “cost.” It should be borne far more by the Grimes’s and Mitch’s of the basketball world.

    It’s a bit analogous to the defensive “penalty” the baseball WAR models hit DHs and 1Bs with — they slough off SS, 2B, CF, RF, etc. defensive duties to others in a similar way that the Mitch’s of the world slough off shots to teammates.

    What do you think Cam’s TS% would look like with RJ’s usage?

    *********************
    Same answer as when TNFH posed the “challenge.” Deployment-dependent.

    “What does this mean? Box Plus/Minus is good at measuring offense and solid overall, but the defensive numbers in particular should not be considered definitive. Look at the defensive values as a guide, but don’t hesitate to discount them when a player is well known as a good or bad defender.”

    Melo’s DBPM was a negative number in every year he played for us. So it seems like BPM captured his negative value there. Let’s not make prime Melo out to be current Kemba Walker on D.

    The Bulls are coming to play tonight with revenge on their minds. We better be ready or it’s going to be 2 losses in a row with the 76ers up next.

    Yeah and then all the pessimists might resurface.

    I am not making Melo out to be anything. I think he had a couple very good seasons for us, as JK47 said.

    I just think BPM is not capturing what Tyson brought to the table.

    Time machine, 1978:

    “Ah, I see the Spurs beat the Rockets last night. Ice played 34 minutes, was 15-22 from the floor, 6-7 from the line, 36 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds. Spurs won 122-111.”

    When we’re considering how good a game Gervin had, there’s an awful lot of signal there, right — particularly on the offensive end? Ice had a really good game on offense, right?

    So let’s add in, “The Rockets’ 2 guards were 5-20 from the floor, and Gervin had 4 fouls.”

    Decent amount of signal about Ice on defense, too, right?

    Fast forward to 2022: What signal is BPM “finding” that was being “missed” in 1978?

    Not much, if any — right?

    Let’s ask another question. If you’re sitting at Rucker Park and LeBron James shows up, and does three 20 minute runs, you don’t really need to have a box score to be able to tell that LeBron James is a really good basketball player and way better than the other dudes on the blacktop, right? What signal(s) are you using to come to that conclusion?

    Let’s add another factor: Quentin Grimes (*) shows up, checks LBJ. They do three 20 minute runs against each other with the other dudes who were playing before they got there. Do you really need the data the game churns out to be able to figure out that LBJ is the better player?

    (*) Note to KB friends — I like Quentin Grimes. This is not about Quentin Grimes. He’s a jumping off point.

    I am struggling with the idea that the solution to Cam’s inefficiency at low usage is to give him more usage

    “I am struggling with the idea that the solution to Cam’s inefficiency at low usage is to give him more usage”

    **************************

    Apparently so. I’m not sure why. Do you have an opinion about his deployment as a “stand in the corner every possession” option? Maybe we can start there.

    You’re familiar with the law school hypothetical, so let’s try one. Bucket one: Mitchell Robinson gets the ball 40 feet from the basket in 100 possessions. Bucket two: Mitchell Robinson gets the ball two feet from the basket in 100 possessions.

    In which of these buckets do you reckon he’ll be more efficient/effective?

    Now do the same with Steph Curry or Trae Young.

    Deployment matters. The Knicks literally run zero plays for that 5th option/corner guy. How on Earth would that not matter?

    The data you see on BB-ref and the other sites is downstream from both skill set/talent and deployment. It’s all derivative of primary factors. That’s probably the disconnect here.

    Stipulating for a second that “stand in the corner every possession” was Cam’s role with the Knicks, that’s a role that should maximize one’s efficiency. Cam still couldn’t even manage a 100 TS+.

    Your hypothetical doesn’t address the question: why would that number be *higher* if he were permitted to take more difficult shots?

    Stipulating for a second that “stand in the corner every possession” was Cam’s role with the Knicks, that’s a role that should maximize one’s efficiency.

    ******************************

    No.

    I mean, this one isn’t even complicated. Player 1 shoots way better from the elbow than the corner. How would his efficiency then be maximized by standing in the corner?

    “When he’s stinking out the joint though, he really kills us.”

    Yeah, but probably not as much as some think. It’s just more glaring because he is so involved in every play on both ends and his misses are often bricks and blocks.

    I agree that he killed us in the following games:
    @MEM (UGH!)
    OKC
    DEN (we won, no thanks to him)
    @GSW (but Brunson was way worse)
    @PHX (multiple players bad)
    POR (UGH!)

    Beyond that he’s either been neutral or a net positive (especially in our last baker’s dozen games)

    There are also some losses where he played reasonably well but other guys stunk, e.g. MIL, DAL…

    All this is to say we need to have patience with RJ and somewhat discount his prior 3 years due to his age. He certainly seems capable of playing like he is right now going forward, nothing super quirky about it, and that is a pretty good player.

    It’s also been asked around here more than once “What would a good RJ Barrett look like?” or “What would a good Cam Reddish look like?” That question has always confused, and there’s a simple answer:

    A good RJ Barrett would look an awful lot like the guy last game against the Raptors.

    A good Cam Reddish would look an awful lot like the guy in the opener against Memphis. (Although given his age and inexperience, probably even better.)

    Here’s the issue/problem: Their BB-ref pages are not RJ Barrett or Cam Reddish, and thinking a player “looks like” their BB-ref page confuses primary and derivative factors. Data’s really cheap and easy to come by now, and it’s unfortunately often confused for precedent things.

    Put another way, if a team/coach/player could get RJ Barrett to play more often like the TO game, or Cam Reddish to play more often like the MEM game, the data would take care of itself. But the precipitating factor isn’t the “data” it’s the “play more often like.”

    Owen, I agree that BPM et. al. might have missed some of Chandler’s defensive value. But I think the same is true for some of Melo’s offensive value, which was the main bone to pick back then. At the end of the day, I think it’s pretty safe to say that Melo was a this year’s Julius Randle-level player for 6 years. Problem was his contract was to rich for that level of player, and the cost to acquire him was exorbitant.

    Chandler was a Mitch-level player. If you think Mitch is our best player now, we will probably have to agree to disagree…then and now.

    “I mean, this one isn’t even complicated. Player 1 shoots way better from the elbow than the corner. How would his efficiency then be maximized by standing in the corner?”

    Ah but alas, Cam Reddish is not “Player 1.” He is Cam Reddish.

    This means there is a wealth of data on what types of shots, which areas of the floor, etc. facilitate his efficiency, or more commonly his lack thereof.

    Using that data, i.e. the real data that actual existing basketball player Cam Reddish has compiled over four years, what is the case that Cam Reddish’s efficiency would *improve* if given more shots?

    I’m seeing someone with consistently dreadful statistics from the midrange, so the idea that getting him started from the elbow is the key to unlocking his success seems…far-fetched.

    “Melo was a this year’s Julius Randle-level player for 6 years. Problem was his contract was to rich for that level of player, and the cost to acquire him was exorbitant.”

    I agree, but I think Julius is the better passer and rebounder by a wide margin. He goes to the line more as well. Melo was a better pure shooter, scorer and 3 baller, but NYKDr. J is pretty good at that too. If this year goes like two years ago, Julius will have the upper hand in this comparison.

    I’ve pretty much stopped using WS entirely because it seems to make little-to-no distinctions based on usage, which leaves you with Mitchell Robinson and Steph Curry having offensive win shares in the same neighborhood. That obviously defies common sense, but also contradicts tons of other more rigorous empirical measures of value.

    BPM seems to do a much, much better job of accounting for offensive burdens. The top 20 are all very high usage players. You have to go all the way down to the 23rd ranked player to get to a low-usage guy, and his BPM is primarily made up of his DBPM. His name is Mitchell Robinson.

    All this to say I am very accepting of the idea that not all efficiency is created equal and offensive burden matters, but I am skeptical of the idea that even guys with *poor* efficiency aren’t detrimental if their usage is high enough.

    It’s true that the makeup of our lineup basically calls for a high-usage wing because the other 4 positions would be overburdened with shots if we replaced RJ with someone in the average usage range. However, I still think the other 4 positions could beat a 91 TS+ with the extra shots they’d hypothetically get, largely because that’s a very easy number to beat.

    If RJ can get to the ~100 TS+ range, which is where he’s been for the past 13 games or so, he’ll have a much stronger case that BPM is slighting him. Then again, if he can do that over the course of a full season I think BPM will come close to accurately reflecting the value it would bring.

    On usage. Dag, I know I’m unworthy but it’s pretty simple. Some guys are really good and others want them to shoot so the team wins. This is true in a pickup game. I once watched the Giants and Jets run a basketball scrimmage. Who took the most shots? Boomer Esiason and Phil Simms. Some guys in that position take dumb shots, so they miss some, and seem less efficient, but they earn their shots by being the best players.

    Cam needs to like make shots and then he’ll get more. But his teammates aren’t trusting him and they didn’t win with him getting minutes

    Conversely, when you play with a really good player, it’s easy to look good. That is fun in a pickup game. Just run and you get perfect passes and layups. Throw it to that person on the three point that’s an assist…

    Question:

    Would you do Cam AND Quickley for that 2027 Laker 1st (plus maybe a 2023 2nd)?

    It’s a lot to give up, but it sounds like that pick has a lot of value around the league… I love good-shooting Quickley, but I might have to at least think about it.

    Maybe Cam Reddish is better at certain types of shots. There’s definitely data out there on ppp by shot type.

    However, the absence of us having this data isn’t an argument in favor of Cam Reddish. It’s just an absence of data.

    If anyone has access to Zach Lowe’s ESPN+ piece, curious what he has to say about the Knicks… copy and paste encouraged…

    here is what lowe route…its mostly on Grimes (an ode to E)

    4. Well, hello, Quentin Grimes!
    The Knicks found themselves almost the instant Tom Thibodeau inserted Grimes into the starting lineup, benched Derrick Rose and Evan Fournier, and slotted Miles McBride into reserve units. Everyone in New York’s nine-man rotation is an average defender at worst (at least when dialed in). Immanuel Quickley is thriving as something of a sixth starter. RJ Barrett eats as the lone starter on bench units.

    The Knicks’ revamped starting five is plus-75 in 255 minutes — a complete flip-flop after two years of rollicking bench groups carrying punchless starting lineups. Grimes’s 3-and-D skill set meshes around three ball-dominant starters in Jalen Brunson, Julius Randle, and Barrett.

    Brunson is a stabilizer who fits New York’s smash-mouth style. Having a competent point guard allows you to swap out ball handling (i.e. Fournier and Rose) for defense and spot-up shooting.

    Grimes has hit 38.6% on 3s, but he’s more than a stand-still shooter. He can pump-and-go when defenders run him off the arc, and make the next play. He’s cutting and screening away from the ball, relocating for open 3s with defenses in scramble mode — injecting some needed unpredictability into New York’s thudding offense:

    Grimes is as advertised on defense. In the past week alone, New York has used him on Zach LaVine, DeMar DeRozan, and Tyrese Haliburton. The Knicks are not afraid to switch him onto bigger players. (Randle seems to enjoy switching lately.)

    Grimes is smart and stout, with impeccable balance.
    He diagnoses that set early. Grimes trails Haliburton around one screen, and then flies out to Buddy Hield on an impromptu switch — staying down and attached on multiple fakes before inhaling Hield’s triple. (The Knicks on offense use Grimes as the back-screener — Hield’s role — in this same action.)

    Time will tell whether New York’s (divided) brain trust was right to hold off on trading Grimes (and everything else) for Donovan Mitchell. I understood it at the time; New York did not have a ready-made contender around Mitchell as the Cleveland Cavaliers did. The Knicks’ path after a theoretical Mitchell trade was murky.

    Their path to real contention now is murky. They remain a middle-of-the-road team. They’ll need a tentpole star, either via free agency or trade. Extending Quickley and Obi Toppin could shut off their future cap space.

    But keep this up, and that’s two solid seasons in three years. Small victories lead to bigger ones.

    he also wrote on Brunson:

    Brunson is averaging 21 points and 6 dimes on solid shooting — living up to his new contract. Few ball handlers combine Brunson’s fire-hydrant physicality with so much creativity. He has a deep bag of moves and fakes, and he strings them together in sequences — sometimes very long ones — that make sense to only him.

    That is 11 seconds of continuous, circular dribbling that somehow leads to a wide-open 3. Brunson stabs at defenders, fades back, hits them with hesitations and half-spins (he might be the reigning king of the Smitty fake spin) until something opens. Brunson is not super quick, but he’s really hard to grasp.

    Look at him zig-zag through a zone defense!

    Brunson might start possessions with an improvised guard-guard screen aimed at drawing a smaller defender he can overpower. The Knicks have scored 1.17 points per possession out of Brunson isolations — 14th among 103 ball handlers who have run at least 50 such plays, per Second Spectrum. Brunson going one-on-one more means Randle is doing it less — and as a result, with greater efficiency.

    Brunson can screen for Randle and Barrett in inverted pick-and-rolls too. Switch, and the Knicks choose between mismatches. Help and recover, and someone pops open. New York has scored an astounding 1.33 points per possession trips featuring a Brunson ball screen — sixth among 249 players who have set at least 50, per Second Spectrum.

    New York’s offense isn’t pretty. It’s still a blunt force weapon. But Brunson gives the Knicks more ways to aim that force in more directions. It’s brutality with variety, and it’s working.

    4. Well, hello, Quentin Grimes!
    The Knicks found themselves almost the instant Tom Thibodeau inserted Grimes into the starting lineup, benched Derrick Rose and Evan Fournier, and slotted Miles McBride into reserve units. Everyone in New York’s nine-man rotation is an average defender at worst (at least when dialed in). Immanuel Quickley is thriving as something of a sixth starter. RJ Barrett eats as the lone starter on bench units.

    The Knicks’ revamped starting five is plus-75 in 255 minutes — a complete flip-flop after two years of rollicking bench groups carrying punchless starting lineups. Grimes’s 3-and-D skill set meshes around three ball-dominant starters in Jalen Brunson, Julius Randle, and Barrett.

    Brunson is a stabilizer who fits New York’s smash-mouth style. Having a competent point guard allows you to swap out ball handling (i.e. Fournier and Rose) for defense and spot-up shooting.

    Grimes has hit 38.6% on 3s, but he’s more than a stand-still shooter. He can pump-and-go when defenders run him off the arc, and make the next play. He’s cutting and screening away from the ball, relocating for open 3s with defenses in scramble mode — injecting some needed unpredictability into New York’s thudding offense:

    Grimes is as advertised on defense. In the past week alone, New York has used him on Zach LaVine, DeMar DeRozan, and Tyrese Haliburton. The Knicks are not afraid to switch him onto bigger players. (Randle seems to enjoy switching lately.)

    Grimes is smart and stout, with impeccable balance.

    He diagnoses that set early. Grimes trails Haliburton around one screen, and then flies out to Buddy Hield on an impromptu switch — staying down and attached on multiple fakes before inhaling Hield’s triple. (The Knicks on offense use Grimes as the back-screener — Hield’s role — in this same action.)

    Time will tell whether New York’s (divided) brain trust was right to hold off on trading Grimes (and everything else) for Donovan Mitchell. I understood it at the time; New York did not have a ready-made contender around Mitchell as the Cleveland Cavaliers did. The Knicks’ path after a theoretical Mitchell trade was murky.

    Their path to real contention now is murky. They remain a middle-of-the-road team. They’ll need a tentpole star, either via free agency or trade. Extending Quickley and Obi Toppin could shut off their future cap space.

    But keep this up, and that’s two solid seasons in three years. Small victories lead to bigger ones.

    5. The zig-zaggy creativity of Jalen Brunson
    Brunson is averaging 21 points and 6 dimes on solid shooting — living up to his new contract. Few ball handlers combine Brunson’s fire-hydrant physicality with so much creativity. He has a deep bag of moves and fakes, and he strings them together in sequences — sometimes very long ones — that make sense to only him.

    Like, what even is this:

    That is 11 seconds of continuous, circular dribbling that somehow leads to a wide-open 3. Brunson stabs at defenders, fades back, hits them with hesitations and half-spins (he might be the reigning king of the Smitty fake spin) until something opens. Brunson is not super quick, but he’s really hard to grasp.

    Look at him zig-zag through a zone defense!

    Brunson might start possessions with an improvised guard-guard screen aimed at drawing a smaller defender he can overpower. The Knicks have scored 1.17 points per possession out of Brunson isolations — 14th among 103 ball handlers who have run at least 50 such plays, per Second Spectrum. Brunson going one-on-one more means Randle is doing it less — and as a result, with greater efficiency.

    Brunson can screen for Randle and Barrett in inverted pick-and-rolls too. Switch, and the Knicks choose between mismatches. Help and recover, and someone pops open. New York has scored an astounding 1.33 points per possession trips featuring a Brunson ball screen — sixth among 249 players who have set at least 50, per Second Spectrum.

    New York’s offense isn’t pretty. It’s still a blunt force weapon. But Brunson gives the Knicks more ways to aim that force in more directions. It’s brutality with variety, and it’s working.

    Grimes has had the highest degree of difficulty defensive assignments in the entire NBA this year according to a stat someone posted after his last game. And he has been killing it on defense.

    We have four pretty good players in the starting lineup right now and RJ’s past couple of weeks have been excellent. Everyone important is under 28.

    I am not unhappy

    If the argument is Cam can’t realize his potentail because he is not/never deployed properly…but to date…the guys who have coached him at the professional level…have deemed him not even really worthy of “being deployed at all”…make it moot about suboptimal deployment masking his real ability…other than you need to argue that the dude before Nate, Nate and Thibs all have grossly misjudged his capabilities/proficiency?

    “Their path to real contention now is murky. They remain a middle-of-the-road team. They’ll need a tentpole star, either via free agency or trade. Extending Quickley and Obi Toppin could shut off their future cap space.”

    **********************

    Pretty much this, yeah.

    Welcome to “Team Pessimism,” Zach — new members buy first round!!

    Barf. Hornets and Miles Bridges working towards a new deal.

    I know I’m throwing stones from a glass house on this one, but I still hate it.

    Cam: lowest usage in his career and highest efficiency in his career

    Therefore, it follows logically that the reason he’s not scoring more efficiently is that he’s not shooting enough.

    He’s still fairly young, he’s still tall and fairly mobile etc, so maybe you can make a case for keeping him around as a last 2-3 guys on the bench guy while you try to develop him, but there’s no real reason to play him if you’re trying to win games.

    Cam doesn’t pass and he doesn’t personally score particularly efficiently-why would you want him to have the ball more? Guys with that profile kill offenses.

    Disappointed in the CLT Hornets, and the NBA generally.

    @Alan,

    Have you ever made a list of best Christmas episodes?

    “I am skeptical of the idea that even guys with *poor* efficiency aren’t detrimental if their usage is high enough.”

    The word “detrimental” is hard to quantify. Does it mean that the team would be better off if the player shot better, or the team would be better off if his minutes were replaced with any random player at his “position” (another nebulous term in today’s nba, I prefer “role” such as high-usage/high-minutes starting large wing). This harkens back to the Randle vs. Obi debate last year, where I argued that the team would have lost even more games by reversing Randle’s and Obi’s minutes. The point being that a) Obi is simply not capable of playing as well as Randle is right now, he doesn’t have the skillset, and b) Obi is not suited for a high usage/high minutes starting big wing role…because he would be likely be targeted on both ends in a way that rendered him more detrimental than even Randle if his minutes were increased, probably winding up in foul trouble continuously.

    I don’t know how to prove this other than for Randle to get hurt, and the guy had been pretty indestructable since we got him, so I’ll just have to agree to disagree with anyone who feels differently.

    Z-Man is right about Obi and he’s right about what he said about “proving” what he’s saying about Obi.

    If all you go on is the data these guys generate, you’re missing a whole lot — both analytically and aesthetically.

    Bears repeating: The BB-ref page is downstream from and secondary to talent and skill set. That talent and skill set can be observed (*), though it can’t really be “quantified” and at some level can’t be “explained” to the novitiate — particularly the headstrong or stubborn versions thereof.

    (*) It generates data that can certainly be observed, but that data is merely a conditional manifestation of the talent and skill set.

    On the season RJ is at a point where he could easily be replaced and we’d have a net gain. Over his healthy games I’m satisfied enough with him at least longterm.

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