Knicks Morning News (2022.12.08)

That’s great news indeed about Griner!

Obi’s injury reminds me of my daughter’s. After an initial scare, she only missed a couple of weeks but is still affected by it now, 3 months later.

“If they think he’s a permanent knucklehead and want to move on, I’m fine with a trade that brings back anything, but they gave up a pick for him and never really gave him a real shot. That’s bad enough. If they attach him to Fournier and take back trash the accumulation of small forgivable errors starts becoming less forgivable.”

To me, using that CHA protected pick on Cam was a bigger error than the original pick swap. I would much rather have used the pick on a similar high upside 19-20yo than on a guy like Cam, and said so at the time. It wasn’t the worst flier in the world, but definitely a low percentage move, similar to Mudiay, Hezonja, Frank, Knox, DSJ, etc. The occasional flashes are tantalizing, but ultimately, it’s just not there and it’s a waste of time to wait around for it.

Think about how Thibs praised Grimes yesterday. The most telling thing he said is that he practices the same way he plays. He made a veiled reference to “guys who practice at half speed and then it’s hard to ramp up.”

Cam has enormous gifts, he has the body and skills of a potential superstar. But there’s an unfixable motor issue. He’s got a MiniCooper motor in a Corvette body. that car looks great when driving downhill on a mountain road. Once the terrain flattens out and goes uphill again it gets exposed for what it is.

“I’m gonna plead ignorance here, but what exactly is the point of trying to dump Randle? If we’re getting decent picks back, fine (and all I’ve heard about is picks out in 2028 or something) but if it’s just to shed salary, what would be the end game? There really aren’t any big time free agents on the horizon; cap space ain’t what it used to be

Once again, I’m ready to be enlightened…”

My opinion is that there is a lingering, even entrenched, disgust with Randle’s performance and demeanor starting from the ATL series and carrying through all of last year.

The rhetoric was pretty extreme. Most Detrimental to Winning! Selfish. Lunatic! Physically diminished! Incapable of changing his game! Not cut out for New York! Could only play well in empty arenas! Worst contract in the NBA! Horrific defender! Holding the Great Obi Toppin back! Dump him at all costs, even a first rounder!

And all of that before his extension even kicked in. Before he had a chance to share the floor with a decent PG. Before he had a chance to process what happened last year and work on things during the offseason.

I think a lot of discerning Knicks fans were traumatized by him last year, expecially in the face of his extension. And like a trauma victim, there’s still PTSD to deal with before he can be viewed objectively.

Right now he is earning every penny of his extension, and probably outperforming it. As I indicated previously (only to be scoffed at) he is playing at roughly the same level as Brunson. The numbers get closer and closer. And they are making the same money. Yet folks will laud Brunson as the second coming while hoping Randle’s good play will make it easier to dump him for peanuts, or even with an asset attached.

Have at it, haterz!

“The reason we should trade him is because we should generally be looking to trade present wins, which are doing absolutely nothing for us, for future assets. There’s a minuscule chance Julius Randle is on the next contending Knicks team, so we might as well get assets for him if possible (still doubt it, but now wouldn’t be shocked).”

This is a curious statement, put politely.

Why do you consider the chances that Randle playing like a borderline all-star would be part of the next contending Knicks team “miniscule?” And even beyond that, is there really any downside to having an all-star (or even all-NBA) level Julius Randle, 28 years old and making less than half of what max players at his age and experience make, playing winning basketball?

“You were scoffed at because you compared the efficiency of a high-usage point guard to that of a high-usage power forward. It was a bad comparison and still is. Again, if a first baseman and a catcher have similar offensive stats, that does not mean they are equally valuable.”

Where did I say “equally valuable?” I said “playing at a similar level statistically. Similar usage. Similar efficiency. Similar shot profile.”

PGs are by definition more valuable than PFs. That’s a given. So why diminish what Randle is doing relative to Brunson because he doesn’t play the same position?

How is Brunson doing in his realm of responsibility compared to Randle? Where does Brunson rank among starting PGs compared to where Randle ranks among starting PFs?

“Sam Presti blew up a 49 win Thunder team because he thought they were too far from contention to justify continuing to pursue present wins. We’re a ~41 win team.”

Sam Presti? You mean the guy who preferred Kendrick Perkins to James Harden?

After the Thunder lost all-time great in his prime Kevin Durant for nothing under his brilliant leadership, they continued to win in the 40’s for 4 more years before engaging in a tank. Oh, and they benefitted immensly from having SGA into their lap at #11 after some stupid team drafting above them preferred his 3-on-3 whiz college teammate. They are in their 3rd year of tanking and are at least 3 years from being a contender.

So I’d be hesitant to hold a guy who is on a 10-year rebuild plan up as a paragon of effective GMing. He’s got plenty of warts.

“Maybe we have one more win with him instead of RJ, or maybe Cam is even worse if you give him a bigger role.”

Bet the house on door #2

I think that among the so-called pessimists, JK’s feelings on the team are the ones I can relate to the most. for example, this take:

Some of us just like to have something you can dream on. “Championship or bust” isn’t my mentality, but REAL contention, like 1990’s Knicks-style contention, is something I could get into. I don’t really see that kind of potential with this particular group of players nor with this front office. If this group tops out at “never won a playoff series” I’m going to consider that a pretty disappointing outcome even if there are a few low-40ish seasons mixed in there. Maybe they’ll pleasantly surprise me– I certainly hope they do.

This is interesting because the entire ’90s stretch was build on having on HOFer we acquired during an accidentank season with flat lottery odds, whose high water marks for BPM were 5.5 and 5.2 with a single first team all-NBA appearance, and who never had a single multiple all-star for a teammate during his prime. Is there really no conceivable path to something like that level?

I would expect that we won’t see Cam until after December 15 (a weel from today). That way there’s no injury risk. If a trade doesn’t happen by then, maybe they’ll play him until Obi gets back.

“Cam is such a bad rebounder that I’m not sure he’d be a good fit for PF”

No, but RJ and Randle can’t play 48 minutes…so if RJ plays the 4 with the second unit, someone has to play the 3.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Svi in there playing some 2, he can really shoot. Thibs said some nice things about him recently, or so Breen says…

strat, I wish I was with you on Cam but don’t see much to be optimisitic about. I’ve already seen RJ play consistently well for reasonably long stretches. Cam puts up those binary code box score lines way too often for me.

Cam is a 4th year player and 23 years old. If he’s not figured out how to get stronger by now, he never will while he here.