The Knicks host the disappointing Dallas Mavericks as the Knickerbockers try to keep the Mavericks’ record as low as possible so that the Knicks will get a good pick from the Mavericks in this year’s draft. It’s protected Top 10, and the Mavericks are likely not going to be picking in the Top 10 this year, but they’re also not looking like they’re going to be picking in the 20s, either, so every loss they receive, the more they get pushed down to a really nice number, like, say, 15 or so.
That’d be swell.
Jalen Brunson faces his old teammates in one of those classic, “We both made a big mistake!” matchups. This is a very winnable game.
Let’s go, Knicks!
126 replies on “2022-23 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Mavericks – The Battle to Convey the Mavericks Pick”
Here’s the thing about LeBron, and why I think he’s the best non-center of all time (centers deserve their own category, IMO):
He’s a monster on defense.
Jordan, Magic, Bird, these guys could all defend, sure. MJ largely conserved his energy on that side of the ball, though, picking his spots while Pippen (most underrated player, IMO) did the heavy lifting.
Bird and Magic were good defenders. Their innate sense of where the ball was going made them terrors in the passing lane, and I think they both led the league in steals at one point.
But LeBron. I watched those clips Jowles posted. He’s a one-man wrecking crew on the defensive end. He’s got to be the best rim protector who wasn’t a center or shot-blocking specialist of all time. He could be guarding the three point line and still be able to protect the rim bc he could cover so much ground so quickly.
And in transition, well, his transition D is well known to be god-like (e.g. the Iggy chase down).
I’m really shocked that Strat, of all people, is overlooking this and rating the guys who left most of the defense to their teammates over him.
Let’s Go Matinee Darlings Knicks!
There are a lot of “7-footers” in the post-3pt era and were not that many in the 60’s and early 70’s…and some of the taller guys totally sucked, like Tom Boerwinkle. Many of the all-time great “pivot men” of the past would be considered small by today’s standards. It was a common practice to inflate the height of players. Russell, Reed, Cowens, Hayes, Sikma, Lucas, McAdoo were all 6’8-9″-ish. Wes Unseld was 6’7″.
6’5″ guys like Oscar and Baylor had huge rebound numbers. Clyde and West were excellent rebounders. But they weren’t battling with the Cs, they were just closer to the basket than today’s guards typically are. You could lay off a lot of guys back then. Clyde often mentions how he got a lot of rebounds by hanging at the FT line extended. I see IQ doing the same thing.
Cowens is a great example of a guy would have been a terrific small-ball C in today’s game. Lucas and McAdoo would have been monster stretch-bigs.
Two things that have gone by the wayside in today’s game are the back-to-the-basket pivot game (although Jokic gives you some of that), and the art of blocking out. It’s common for most players to concede defensive rebounds after a shot to cut off transition baskets, especially 3’s, rather than pursuing rebounds or blocking out.
We’re going to have to hit our threes to stay in this game today. Can’t go 6 for 30. Only if we had a 40% shooter on the bench. Someone who holds the all time Knick single season record for 3FGM. Instead Thibs will play RJ for 40 minutes because everyone knows he’s a superstar star who starts the season in February.
Not sure what the new rallying cry should be. Other than that it should NOT be the name of the imaginary friend from Inside Out.
What if I told you there was a team in 2022 that can’t hit 3pters? What if I told you that team played in NYC?
ESPN’S 30 FOR 30 PRESENTS 6 FOR 30.
we haven’t lost yet…
EB, Katz had an interesting story earlier this week about how efficient our offense has been despite our awful shooting from downtown. Basically, our shot profile is great, even if the shooting itself isn’t always. And somehow it’s working despite 4/5 of the starting lineup all preferring to operate inside the arc.
Speaking of Wemby, for anyone concerned about his skinniness, take a look at these pictures:
LBJ — “He could be guarding the three point line and still be able to protect the rim bc he could cover so much ground so quickly.”
I’ve always wished LeBron would take a Jordan-baseball-year or two and try to play soccer with the US National team. No joke. I think he would have been amazing.
How about LeBron as a linebacker or tight end? He would have punished people.
Totally. Or DB or free safety. No one would ever catch the ball. Hahaha. But our football may not need him as much as our futbol does 😉
Alan, that’s 100% correct. Our offense is systemically hyper efficient despite horrendous three point shooting. If your point is not to throw the baby with the bath water, I agree.
I’m just saying hopping that RJ will become a sniper is not an exciting strategy. Lower his minutes to 28-30 for ten games and figure out how to play Evian.
gotta believe to achieve
I wonder who holds the record for most improved free throw shooting from season to season. Mitch should hang out with that guy this summer.
Let’s Do it!
Three minutes in and no Knick has done anything really stupid. Keep up the good work, guys!
Long way to go, but Grimes is doing a great job guarding Luka so far
Nice way to start a game…all 5 players contributing…
Quentin Grimes is an all-time non-controversial Knick
I like the way Mitch discouraged Luka from getting his face in his armpits…
December 3, 2022 at 13:49
Quentin Grimes is an all-time non-controversial Knick”
I think he sucks.
This looks like a different team with Mitch and Grimes healthy and in shape.
mavs probably shouldn’t be running powell pnr every play w grimes on luka. luka has a huge strength/bulk advantage on grimes, better off taking him alone and forcing a natural double than bringing mitch into the play in a familiar drop position.
would love to see this breakdown but i am pretty sure mitch now gets more blocks w his left hand
“would love to see this breakdown but i am pretty sure mitch now gets more blocks w his left hand”
That was often noted since his rookie year…
I like the way Randle and RJ have played on both ends thus far…
I’m starting a little late… gooooo Knicks!
hmmmm, a little concerned with the luka/julius back and forth matchup…
although, between mitch swinging his elbows and julius moving wildly around the basket – luka may look pretty beat up by the end of the game…
Avatar trailer now makes the percentage of movies in which the main character “only wants to keep his family safe” close to 99%.
Great pass by Rose
Luka pretty awful so far. Let’s hope he keeps it up.
Hart is looking great today
What do you mean? “i’m going to be coming at you all game” 😀
Great full court shot by Luka, but too late to count.
Excellent 2-way quarter by the Knicks. Glad that last heave didn’t count!
That Randle contract is not looking so bad right now.
Yeah, let’s trade him at the half.
Hart putting it on the floor! Haha!
nah clyde bertans is actually one of the dirtier players in the league
What happened with Brunson?
“Yeah, let’s trade him at the half.”
Why wait that long?
He might have 6 TOs in the 2nd half.
Cam doing his imitation of Cam.
Clyde’s typical “not wide enough for” – check. 😀
Easy to tell who the worst Knick is today…
Cam clearly needs more sleep.
Reddish perhaps not fully in love with playing matinee games.
Dinwiddie is better than he used to be.
We’d be up 20 if it wasn’t for Reddish…
OK, I’ve seen enough of Cam today.
When the Knicks inevitably lose this game blame the first 5 mins of the 2nd quarter.
just popping in to say Cam Reddish still stinks
Dinwiddie has always been good…staying healthy is his problem.
def good for us that woods is out. bertans at the 5 is pretty rough for them.
Cam Reddish can entice you, he can intrigue you, but he will always break your heart…
Truly amazing how the Knicks can’t buy a rebound.
EYETEST ALERT: the teams are roughly equal in rebounds. Go figure.
Brunson is useless on the boards.
Obi terrible sequence on O and then D. I want/need more from him to justify all our complaints about his few minutes.
Hahaha. I’m starting to like Randle’s offense this season, if he could get back to the defense he showed in 2020-21, he’d be a lot more valuable to us. But i’d still try to trade him because he’s volatile and we never know when he’ll have a meltdown again.
We’ve gone from a well oiled machine to a rusty clunker
“We’ve gone from a well oiled machine to a rusty clunker”
That’s what a faulty cam will do…
Can we just play Grimes 48 min?
LOVE that play by Grimes!!
Brunson now misses FTs!? 😮
One of the trivia answers is super easy
So I skip the 3rd Q and … WTF?
41 – 15
And then the site crashes. Seems about right.
Messi is on the board for Argentina, so ..
hopefully …a few more of these and they can Thibs…and then try to make a few moves to get randle and fournier out of town (and rose)…
Fitting that the site was down for the second half shit show. Pathetic on both ends.
The KB bots must have seen that disaster coming…
Yeah, when i started the score was 78-68 i think, and i thought “cool, we still have a 10 pt lead”, but then i looked closer… it was a Dallas lead… 🙁 …and then it got even worse, 19 pt at the end of the 3rd. Then i watched the beginning of the 4th, and it got worse (30 pt), so i switched to the World Cup.
Mavs attempted 61 3 pointers. I guess when no one guards you you might as well fire away
Didn’t Thibs used to me known as a defensive whiz?
What the hell happened? All I got was Tim Hardaway Jr made us sad.
We were up at the half. SMH.
I think the new car smell of the 3-2 west coast trip has worn off. A blowout tomorrow might move the Fire Thibs needle into the red zone…
Whoever is watching the Knicks on a game-by-game basis( according to a recent Tweet) cannot be happy and if another dumpster fire takes place vs. the Cavs tomorrow might mean someone’s head will be sacrificed.
Box score doesn’t really point to a culprit other than Cam the somnambulist. And that can’t be it. Looks like IQ played well in the loss. Silver lining …
Zero perimeter rotations in the second half. RJ and Brunson might as well have not been on the floor defensively. Embarrassing effort from them. And the offense completely fell apart as well- no ball/player movement at all. Brunson’s worst game as a Knick by far. And Cam, holy crap, I don’t even know what to say. He’s flashed a decent ceiling this year but his floor is subterranean. Brutal afternoon.
Holy fuck. I went to a mediocre Hinge date after the first half and thought we’d win. This could be firings worthy.
IQ got a lot of his points in extended GAHBAGE time.
Oof. Do we think Thibs is running a particular scheme to defend the three that is flawed at conception? Or are our guys just too f-ing slow and would suck in anyone’s scheme? Obviously opponents are thrilled to shoot against us.
EDIT: copy that, on IQ
Holy fuck. I went to a mediocre Hinge date after the first half and thought we’d win. This could be firings worthy.
tough L, sure, but if we’ve become negatively correlated to noble’s sex life today is extremely bullish.
Lol lots of Cam hate considering he only played 9 minutes.
Glad I missed this one. Hope it leads to a robust restructuring.
If we’re not tanking then we suck hard
9 minutes in which he was -16, went 0-4 with 3 TOs and 115 missed defensive assignement. 🙂
You came back in the middle of the Dallas’ run that broke the game, once upon a time the score was tied at 68, before that 17-0 run…
He’s a Randle-Level master at inflating his stats in garbage time and tonight he did just that…
One thing I’ve noticed the last few games is that Grimes has done a very good job at the point of attack in the first half but teams adjust at half time and set more screens to get him off of the ball. SGA, Simons, and Luka all were much better in the second half. The Knicks have two slow perimeter rotators in RJ and Brunson plus Randle who’s both slow and lazy- when the Knicks double it’s just too easy to swing the ball and find a wide open three. Thibs has shown he can adjust his offensive schemes- now it’s clear he’s got to adjust his defensive schemes as well.
I woke up this morning fired up for back to back USMT and Knicks
Wish I had stayed in bed ):-
The Knicks don’t have the length or quickness to defend the three point line, nor do they have a good gameplan. Also some of the key rotation players seem to lack defensive awareness.
Not sure how this problem gets fixed without some coaching and personnel changes. The Knicks are hapless at preventing three point attempts.
To be honest I thought the Knicks had been playing a bit better over the last week or so, and looked like they might be turning a corner a little bit, but that seems to have been premature. Today they looked like a poorly coached team that didn’t even belong on the floor with the opponent once the opponent started taking the game seriously.
Games like this should give hope that changes are coming.
But watch us beat the Cavs tomorrow in scintillating fashion…
I don’t watch many other teams but it is probably true that lots of their losses are ugly too. When a couple of guy get hot from three and you are cold, things get ugly in a hurry.
But consistently losing at home, whether heartbreakers like the last 3 or blowouts like today, is the formula for change.
30 for 30 presents 6-30: The Story of the 2022 Knicks. That’s funny.
So uh what happened?
I stopped paying attention at halftime-things were going pretty well
Tony Reali saying that Wilt benched 500 lbs. makes me think that Tony Reali has never bench pressed in his life
A win over the Cavs is pretty much guaranteed tomorrow.
“Tony Reali saying that Wilt benched 500 lbs. makes me think that Tony Reali has never bench pressed in his life”
Correct, because if Tony Reali ever did, he would have known that Wilt actually benched 950 lbs and had a 58-in vertical.
Seriously, there is a lot of mythology out there about Wilt, much of it promulgated bt Wilt himself. His tall tales about himself got taller as he got older. But he also gets unfairly diminished by a lot of revisionist historians.
Thibs needs to go ASAP. Failed to develop a team identity. Even Drose is sick of his lack of game and roster management. Two years ago they defended and consistently outworked their opponent. What are their team core principles?
Even in the 1st half it looked to me like the rotations were slow on the perimeter.
Mitch & Grimes absolutely shutdown Luka but they’d still can a 3 because everyone not involved in the PnR were wide open on 100% of plays despite there being no reason to help on 90% of them.
Willing to say that there has never been a more drastic difference between the top 2 defenders and the other 3.
Took a nap during the 2nd half. Not surprised we lost, surprised we got blown out.
One of the other problems with surrounding Mitch and Grimes with terrible defenders is that Mitch clearly gets gassed by the end of the game from covering for all the shitty late rotators.
I hate the reactions on Knicks Twitter to bad Knicks losses. “Leon Rose is not doing a good job!” You can’t say that just after Knick losses, dudes! This loss shouldn’t change your take on the Knicks. If you are not into the job Leon Rose is doing, then you shouldn’t be swayed by a game-to-game result. The same if you’re into the job he has been doing. The rollercoaster reactions are absurd.
And yet, the Knicks upper brass somehow apparently is looking at things on a game-to-game basis, which is just inane.
Thibs doesn’t have long left. It’s still kinda early in the season, so I’ll say 10 games if he doesn’t turn it around.
Even if it’s personnel and not scheme something needs to change & coach is the easiest.
FEED HIM TO THE FUCKIN SHARKS
We are a little worse than our predicted record, but playing a tough stretch of opponents. So overall we’re probably roughly the team that was expected (by us and by Vegas, not necessarily by Dolan, Rose or Thibs). Those predictions were made by comparing our personnel to that of our competitors. They didn’t assume anything about the coaching. So maybe Thibs is on thin ice, but it only makes sense that he is if you had inflated expectations for the team in the first place.
I don’t think they sold Dolan on 38 wins and not making a play in. The brass doesn’t care what the Behas win prediction was or our SRS. They sold a playoff team. This is a farce.
But if Thibs isn’t getting them to play better than their expected results, then why even have the guy as the coach?
our record in close games since thibs’ arrival is not good…
thibs must go…
You have to wonder if Brunson feels like he’s playing for his dad’s career- if Thibs goes, Rick goes eventually. And for Rose: does Thibs long relationship with Jalen give him a little more rope than he would have otherwise.
UPDATE: So I’ve been fighting a years long battle vs. bots/hackers. They have been probing KB for years now, trying to find weaknesses. I noticed that one or two IP addresses would hit the site over & over again trying various loopholes to get access.
So over the last few days I’ve implemented a number of changes to the back-end and found that it stopped a bunch of attacks. However it appears whoever is behind this is adapting (or their script has moved on to try more vicious attacks), which recently took the site down. So I’m going to implement some more counter measures.
Funny thing is – there’s literally nothing of value to gain. I don’t run a business, store credit cards, SSNs, personal info, etc. Not sure who I pissed off, or if this just happens to every web site out there. Nevertheless I’m going to keep trying to get this sorted out. I have some other stuff to try. Just need the time to get it up & configured.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
Sorry you’re dealing with this nonsense, Mike!
Sorry for the hassle and thank you for keeping it running…
Probably a meme here about the similarities between hackers trying to profit off this site and people rooting for the Knicks but too tipsy to pull it together…
ditto on what owen said…best of luck trying to get it sorted…
really sorry it’s digging in to your time…
I was just about to beg for a subway magic act vid…I would happily participate in one of these events, just in case you need another sidekick…
are there costumes involved?
Dang, sorry Mike. Thanks for keeping this place alive.
(although perhaps the hackers are just trying to improve our mental health so we spend less time contemplating this franchise)
Steve Mills was pilloried for signing 24 year old Tim Hardaway to a 4 year, $71MM contract.
How many multi-year contracts did Phil Jackson and Leon Rose sign that were better than Steve Mills’ worst signing?
29 other NBA teams beg to differ.
You obviously need a coach, but most of them aren’t impact coaches. Early Bird is right, changing the coach is the easiest thing to do. I expect it will happen. But I don’t expect it to make much difference. Just look at Ham replacing Vogel. The Lakers aren’t any better than last year; and that is even though Ham actually has Westbrook coming off of the bench, which should actually help them.
I’d rather have RJ & Randle, adjusting for salary cap. They’re bad contracts but better than what THJr signed.
RJ & Randle have upside that THJr never did. Randle is much better on offense & RJ could theoretically improve. Hardaway was 25 when we signed him to that deal, he had zero upside and had never shown any ability to carry an offense.
Mitch’s contracts have been reasonable too. The first one was a real steal. Now he’s probably close to getting fairly paid.
Many people here seem to think that if someone isn’t tradeable for real value in return he is overpaid. But that’s not how the market works. Players signed in free agency typically get enough that they are neutral in trade value. That is, other teams would be willing to pay the same that you did, but not also give up assets for the player. The test of the value of the contract is would some other team hire the player as a free agent for the same salary if they need that type of player? Hardaway failed that test miserably. No one would have paid that much for him as a free agent. I’m sure that teams who need someone like Brunson would pay his salary as a free agent. I’m not as sure about Randle, but it’s close. If he keeps up the stats he’s getting now, probably yes.
Mike, I’m sorry that you have to work so much for some nonsense bullshit (what are they think they’re gonna find here?) and thanks for keeping the site alive.
Hey Mike, Sorry for all the inconvenience on the site. Once again: If there are any steps that we — the mob — can take to help you sort things, do let us know.
As for Thibs, if we have logical offense/defense schemes, play the kids, and lose close games against better teams, that’s all fine. If Randle and RJ play 48 minutes a game, iso every shot, and chase, chase (or snooze) on defense, then no bueno.
Thibs can keep his job if we lose the right way. I’ve missed most of the last few games, so I don’t really know what’s up, but things don’t sound too good on the site here.