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Post-Game Recap

ESPN: Jalen Brunson, Knicks outlast Hornets 134-131 in OT

From the AP:

Jalen Brunson scored 27 points, hitting the go-ahead basket in overtime, and the New York Knicks beat the Charlotte Hornets 134-131 on Wednesday night.

Brunson also had 13 assists and seven rebounds. RJ Barrett scored 22 points, and Julius Randle had 17 for New York, at 3-1 off to its best start in 10 years.

Gordon Hayward led Charlotte with 21 points. PJ Washington, Kelly Oubre Jr. and Jalen McDaniels each had 17.

Brunson’s 3-pointer with 3:14 left in overtime gave the Knicks the lead for good — at 124-122.

“We kept fighting,” Brunson said. “We found a way to win this game. We stayed poised and kept finding plays to make at the end of the game.”

It should really be said more that Brunson kept fighting (well, Mitch, too, but guys like Mitch, as good as they are, really rely on the other players on offense, so he can be having a good game and if the guys around him suck, he won’t score). He wouldn’t let the Knicks lose tonight. Him and the Hornets lack of cohesion (playing without their All-Star point guard, LaMelo Bell, as well as their second best plater, and other lead guard, Terry Rozier) were the decisive things keeping this from being a loss for the Knicks. If this was last year’s Knicks team, this was a guaranteed loss. So that was nice to see.

But boy, the Hornets sure played d-u-m DUMB, right down to PJ Washington not making sure his foot was behind the line on what could have been a game-tying three.

The Knicks’ perimeter defense was pathetic tonight. Luckily, Mitch played very well on defense in the paint, but Hartenstein was left in no man’s land a lot and it did not look good (it reminds me of some similar breakdowns last year where Mitch and Noel were just stuck with every perimeter player just letting their man go right to the hoop).

Randle played well at times, but often also fell back into the awful ISO stuff (at least they were terrible drives to the basket as opposed to even worst fadeaways). I swear, when Brunson was forced to give the ball up, the other Knicks didn’t seem to want any part of the ball (I really though Charlotte should have tried harder to get the ball out of Brunson’s hands late).

But, whatever, it was an ugly win, but it was a win, and it shows how valuable Brunson is to this team. Without him, hoo boy, they would not be any good.

145 replies on “ESPN: Jalen Brunson, Knicks outlast Hornets 134-131 in OT”

Somebody on the coaching staff has to give RJ a Come to Jesus speech, because at the moment, he doesn’t seem to get it at all. Like, Cam can play stupidly a lot of the time, but he has athletic gifts and skills that RJ just doesn’t, so he can get away with the stupid play a bit more easily. (And it’s not like Cam played brilliantly last night; I just ground my teeth a bit less when he had the ball than when RJ did.)

Thank God for Jalen Brunson. He outclasses the rest of the team on offense by a wiiiiiide margin.

He’s basically the grownup in the room. We can pretty much trust him not to do something stupid, which we can’t say for the other guys.

By far the worst show of the year so far and the Hornets gave their best to help us, but a win is a win no matter what and winning with so many players having mediocre nights is a good thing.

Charlotte is a run and gun team, heavily undermanned (albeit fresh from drumming Atlanta on the road) and Clifford is Thibs’ missing twin, so his team never give up, but down the stretch they played as a reharsal of Dumb & Dumber.

The Knicks started well on offense but then got sloppy and the perimeter defense was made of swiss cheese, forcing Mitch (who did it very well) and I-Hart (less effective but still decent) to try endlessy to cover for the highways others let open.

Now we are where we expected to be, at 3-1 before a 7-game stretch against teams with a better reputation that were in the playoffs/play-in last year.
If we’ll go 3-4 I’ll be happy, anything more is gravy and I’ll be ecstatic.

Play(s) Of The Game
JB 3-pointer to take the lead in OT.
He followed it with a technical FT (thanks Oubre!), an assist for a Mitch’s dunk and then, with the Hornets back within one after RJ’s and Randle’s horrific sequence of errors, sank another shot.

Stat(s) Of The Day
86.4 (3 misses) vs. 66.7 (10 misses). FTs stats for the game.
and
3. Points we give to the Hornets thanks to take fouls. I’m still angry 🙂
and
6. As in Mitch’s block.

Brunson A +
Sensational, superb game. 27 on 15 shots, 13-to-3 AST/TO ratio, 7 boards… and a block!
The guy’s a proven winner, unshakable no matter what and did really shine down the stretch.
Yes, he’s targeted on defense (and Trae? and Spida? and Harden? and Kyrie? And Kemba in his good old days?) but Thibs will scheme to cover for him, it’s only the 4th game and Grimes will be back (will he?).

Fournier C-
Hit 5 of his first 6 shots then got cold and fouled out(!).
Sometimes he vanish from the offense while I think his shooting ability from deep must be use better but he had a couple of good floater attacking the painted area.
I’m often puzzled by his defensive effort, he look he’s able to defend well for 20 seconds, then disappear in the last 4, like there’s a switch turning off.

Barrett C- (Half a grade prize thanks to his clutch FTs)
You read the boxscore and believe he had a nice game. No, he didn’t. He sleepwalked on defense all night (was particularty burned in backdoor plays), couldn’t hit a three, missed a lot of easy layups and had 4 very dumb TOs.
While he’s 14-16 on FTs for the season, he has no respect from the refs, they has come to the conclusion that he’s a bad finisher and defenders can do him whatever they want, RJ don’t get the whistle (his FTr is down from .340 to .216, by far a career low).
I console myself by thinking that he can only get better but he needs to do it fast.

Randle C-
Blah. A nice start but later Bad Julius reared his ugly head, a forced shot here, a tantrum foul there… In the clutch he mixed good plays with bad ones and honestly I will never have faith in his decision making when the ball weight a lot. But I appreciate the effort, he’s trying.

Robinson A-
The blocks, the defense… and a jump shot! Nice to see him do something “new” on offense.
We need him to be so steady during the upcoming 7 games.

IQ C-
A decent stat line, but a strange game for him, sometimes undecided and sometimes careless with the ball. But a decent shooting night.

Rose A-
12 points in 12 minutes, a very solid game on offense. Thibs is using him sparingly and I think it’s a shared decision.

Toppin B
The usual energy, he hit 3 bombs on 4 tries, but limited to 13 minutes. I don’t like him playing so little, not with Randle in an off day.

Reddish C-
Well into his “lanes”, didn’t force shots but had a couple of trademark Cam’s turnovers. Thibs showed faith in his size/atheleticism for 25 minutes… :-O

Hartenstein B-
I like him as Mitch’s half-salary backup, he’s always in motion and was left on an island thousand times against droves of blazing Hornets by his lazy teammates. I’m surpresid he’s not used better on offense, where they’s drifting away from his distributor role that worked so well in Memphis.

Thibs C
To me his worst game so far. He couldn’t straight his team on defense and made some questionable decision about rotations. But he trust Brunson.

Since someone was inevitably going to do it, I’ll go ahead and kvetch about the 40/13 minutes distribution between Randle/Obi last night. There were stretches in the 4th and OT where Randle was both clearly gassed and simply playing like shit. Not sure what the point of rostering a highly capable backup is if you’re not going to play him in that situation.

Jalen Brunson is the best player to change teams in free agency since _________?

Fell asleep midway through the 2nd quarter, so by reading the game thread looks like i missed the Knicks getting back to the old Knicks plus a good player (Brunson) that saved them. 4th game and counting for bad RJ, that’s the worst, but i guess the Randle redemption tour took a bump in the road, let’s hope he learns from this. This is a pivotal season for the hybrid method, and there’s a decent chance it all will come to what i’m saying for a long time, Randle and RJ are the same, we can’t have both, we must choose one. My preference is to keep RJ, but he’s trying hard to change my mind. We need to upgrade one of the two and check how we stand.

I totally agree about the minutes distribution, Noble. Randle looked so so so tired by the end.

That being said, this kind of bad Julius game is vastly preferable to the bad Julius games from last season. He went back to the over dribbling and twirling and all of that nonsense, but it was usually in-service of getting to the basket. And on some of those drives, he got a good shot, and it just rattled in an out. The process wasn’t great, but it was decent. And last year, it was just stupid almost all of the time.

And regarding the minutes split, the problem is that our coach feels he needs a lot of shot creation in the closing lineup, and thus far, Obi has not really demonstrated that ability. But I feel like he would have been more useful, especially since he had fresh legs that nobody else in that group did buy overtime.

My recollection is that the starters handed the bench a double-digit lead and they promptly blew it. Did that not happen? In particular, recall IQ making two horrific passing turnovers in that stretch.

P.J. Washington is a nice young player, drafted #12 in the RJ draft, 2 spots after Cam.

Thank god for Jalen Brunson. I mean, if he keeps this up and we’re 500 or better, he’s an all-star, right?

I will say this. Ugly win but a win nonetheless. We knew coming into this season that 3 point shooting was going to be a weakness for us and even if Charlotte isn’t great and was undermanned, it’s still good to eek out a win when we didn’t shoot from 3 well.

And you know…RJ was 4 for 4 from the line. I said going into this season if he can at least get the free throw percentage up to something good that would be a huge step in the right direction for him.

But seriously…is Jalen Brunson the best free agent signing the Knicks have ever made? I mean…Tyson Chandler was a pretty good one but holy hell what a difference this dude is making.

My goodness, all the threads today…

We would kind of be tanking, Hubert. RJ has played terribly, but Julius has mostly played well, and Rose has been great in limited minutes. You can argue that Sims can slide in relatively seamlessly into the iHart role (though iHart can’t be traded until mid-December anyway), but let’s look at the lineup post-trade:

C: Mitch and Sims, with no emergency backup
PF: Obi and… Obi. I guess Feron Hunt gets signed to the main roster?
SF: Cam and Fournier
SG: Grimes, Quickley, Svi, Trevor Keels
PG: Brunson, Deuce, Ryan Arcidiacono

Honestly I see that as potentially better. Competent play from Obi and Quickley — plus increased usage from Brunson, Mitch, and Fournier — would offset the loss of RJ and Randle. It could even surpass them considering the subtraction of the inefficiency and the turnovers.

The real short-term pain is losing Rose and iHart. But we’re talking about two franchise-altering picks from the Lakers. Leon could actually get his superstar with that kind of ammo.

I really feel for Obi because I don’t know how much more he can be doing. 22/8/4 per 36 minutes on 66% TS and 20% usage while for the second consecutive year the team dominates when he’s on the court, and his minutes are down relative to last year. Don’t get me wrong, Julius is playing great also and earning his minutes this season for sure it just feels like we don’t even know what we have in Obi. I understand all the limitations in his game and all the reasons why he might be over exposed in a bigger role, but is there not like a 5% chance that he is what those numbers say he is?

The Knicks were -5 with Quick on the floor for a 2:30 stretch at the start of the 4th quarter.

Does RJ stand for “Rlandry Jfields”?

Excellent game by Brunson. This is exactly what Randle needs. Someone else willing to come in, control the offense, & take (and make) the big shots. He’s not the 1A player we need, but you can see that it aids Randle, who obviously loses his cool at times. Most notably, when he doesn’t get a call. He gets so mad at those junctures. It’s one thing to act hurt/angry when you don’t get a call to signal to the officials that you’ve been wronged. It’s another to then go hack another player and hurt your team when it happens. Randle did the latter at least twice yesterday by my count. I wonder if the coaching staff has addressed this???

Blergh, hate two threads in one day. Mike, is there a way to program the bot to be inactive the morning after a game so we can all stick to Brian’s post-game threads?

I do always kind of feel for coaches when games go into OT after they’ve played their starters a lot of minutes.

But Thibs should give Obi a few more minutes to avoid this exact type of situation. Because once you get to OT, I get why it’s hard to play a sub when it’s only 5 more minutes because it’s not really enough time to get a guy going and then if you get behind you put a starter back in with only a few minutes?

But that can be avoided if you play Obi a bit more earlier in the game. He’s playing well and scoring pointz. At this point it’s not even a trying to get Randle going/out of a funk thing because Randle is also playing well but you aren’t losing that much giving Obi a few more minutes.

I fully concur with everyone saying this kind of bad Randle game is vastly preferable to the kind we saw last year. I even said as much in the game thread.

Given how gassed Randle clearly was, I think playing Obi more would’ve actually been to Randle’s benefit. I have to think a few more of those looks at the rim go in if the split was closer to 32/21.

Generally I don’t see any reason Randle absolutely has to play more than 30 minutes a night regardless of how he’s actually playing. It feels like such a waste of what Obi brings to the table.

I understand the shot creation advantage Randle comes with, but I’ve long said I think Obi has a little more in that department than he’s had the chance to show. It’s also not like Obi doesn’t come with advantages of his own. We can deploy 48 minutes of rested, quality play at the position. Don’t know why we choose not to.

Anyway, at least there’s proof of concept for Julius Randle: good NBA player. I’m at a bit of a loss for RJ. I know his current role is not well-suited for him, but to be blunt I just don’t know what he’s good enough at to imagine an optimized RJ. The only thing that comes to mind right now is…a smaller one.

It’s game 4 and I need to keep my stress level very low, so I’m taking this very calmly, but yesterday 40-13 playing time at PF was clearly a mistake and Obi’s management looks back at square one.

At the end Randle did look gassed and dangerously surfing close to a tantrum (Oubre did a good job subbing for him in that role).

I think both things can be avoided if he arrives at the end of games fresher.
He played the entire 3rd quarter yesterday and this is a nonsense when you have a productive backup.

So far it was the game that most resembled last year, luckily this year we have Brunson.

RJ is getting to the rim more but finishing like he did last season (not good, but still a good shot for the offense) but he’s shooting 15% from 3, and that’s a big part of why we’re moaning about his finishing. He’s also not generating FTAs for whatever reason this season, which sucks because he’s been making them so far. I think we all need to be more patient.

Went back and watched the highlights. I guess Oubre actually just bodied Mitch out of the way to get that late layup on the block that confused me last night. It’s kind of puzzling since Mitch has looked quite stout overall in taking contact so far this year. He may have just slipped a bit. Overall, he looks to be in shape with the right mix of bulk and spring this year. I expect big things. He is 15-17 from the field to start the season and once again leading the league in fg%.

Watching the highlights, holy hell did Jalen hit a bunch of big shots. Two huge threes and that insanely difficult fadeaway from just inside the foul line. The question was which Brunson we would get, the one with Luka or the one who dominated without Luka. Either would have been fine but the latter showed up last night and I am well pleased.

It is amazing that we got Brunson at such a reasonable price. It’s going to be the exception that proves the rule that you can’t find great value in free agency.

And I agree RJ will prob come raging back with a few good games. Hitting his FTs will put a floor under his value. But I don’t know, been a skeptic from the start and I have yet to see anything to make me change my mind.

It’s pretty clear that Thibs at his core does not trust Obi enough to balance his minutes more that he does in tight games. I don’t think he truly trusts any aspect of Obi’s game on either end beyond transition baskets and dunks. And Thibs’ MO is that he will be rigid once he decides on who he trusts and who he doesn’t. He clearly trusts RJ and Julius more, for whatever reason.

Now if the second unit played better as a whole rather than blowing a lead that the starters scratched and clawed to establish in the 3rd I’d be even more critical of Thibs’ decision last night. It wasn’t Obi’s fault that they squandered the lead, but it seems that he took a disproportional share of the blame for it. He was out there with IQ, Reddish and Hart for most of his minutes and none of them played well in the second half.

So I didn’t see it as much of an Obi thing as a second unit thing. Only Reddish and IQ saw more than 16 minutes, and that was largely due to Fournier having all kinds of problems defensively and fouling out.

What’s the o/u on Mitch triple doubles, needing to cleanup bad defense all season?

“It’s kind of puzzling since Mitch has looked quite stout overall in taking contact so far this year. He may have just slipped a bit.”

I think Mitch was hedging on the wraparound pass and got caught in between. There were plays earlier where he switched too hard and it led to an open dunk. Credit Oubre for lulling him to sleep and making a tough little floater. I can live with that.

I concur with DRed and also think that RJ requires patience. He’s had stretches like this before and then long stretches of better play.

I know some will say that 3 years and 4 games is a lot of patience, but he’s been very streaky and is still just 22 years old. He’s gonna get a lot of rope after signing that contract, so I’m fine with rolling with him until he really starts losing critical games for us.

Choosing to post here now b/c chronologically later.

Agree on the trust issues between Thibs and Obi. Also wonder if Obi’s loose “unserious” demeanor on and off court costs him points with Scowl-Coach.

And: not wanting to start a (new) war about the front office — but this season (so far) is going just as Leon drew it up. Brunson is a win. Hart has played well. Mitch’s contract looks good. And Cam is in the rotation somehow, more trusted than Obi (hitting clutch 3s?). At times it looks like we have more weapons 1-12 than the other team. Depth.

Leon has done all of this without saying a single word to us about how it’s goink 😉 And — yes, yes, yes – many more questions linger on the roster, but credit where credit is due (so far).

If we had just kept DSJ, we wouldn’t have even needed Brunson! (ducks)

But seriously, I’m happy for DSJ. He had lingering injuries for a long time and is just now showing off his full repertoire.

Now literally the only player from that draft who hasn’t done shit is Frank. Whoopsy!

I don’t know where this narrative that RJ’s a slow starter began but I want to nip it in the bud.

Last year, his “slow start” took place over 30 games in the first 3 months of the season; that’s over 1/3 of the regular season and 40% of the 70 games RJ actually played in. He then was either warmed up or just randomly got hot from 3 for 20 games. Then, he ended the season just as badly as he began it but he took more FGA while doing it.

RJ started and ended the season poorly last year and has started the season, after a supposed offseason of him working hard on some of his deficiencies, even worse this year. Even if he does round into form after a slow start, if that form is the same as we’ve gotten the last three years what’s the point?

The point is that RJ was just signed to a long extension and is 22 years old, younger than the guy drafted at #14 this year. He is going to get every opportunity to become consistent.

I’m going to give RJ more leash, partly because I need to, but he’s been garbage so far.

Regardless of how you feel longterm on RJ, he should not be the least efficient scorer, lead the team in TOs, and lead the team in usage.

Now if the second unit played better as a whole rather than blowing a lead that the starters scratched and clawed to establish in the 3rd I’d be even more critical of Thibs’ decision last night. It wasn’t Obi’s fault that they squandered the lead, but it seems that he took a disproportional share of the blame for it. He was out there with IQ, Reddish and Hart for most of his minutes and none of them played well in the second half.

It was 98-90 at the start of the 4th when Obi checked in and 111-106 (Knicks had the ball) when he checked out. “Blowing the lead” seems a little strong.

EB offers exactly the content for that “Come to Jesus” chat with RJ. Your move, Thibs (or guy with iPad).

Regardless of how you feel longterm on RJ, he should not be the least efficient scorer, lead the team in TOs, and lead the team in usage.

RJ started and ended the season poorly last year and has started the season, after a supposed offseason of him working hard on some of his deficiencies, even worse this year.

That his primary goal this offseason was to improve his finishing at the rim and also his passing when defenders close on him at the rim, and that he is still struggling mightily at doing both of those things, is not great, Bob.

Oh, I don’t blame anyone for feeling that way about RJ or being totally out on him. I just wouldn’t expect any change in his minutes distribution or role for a long time. It is what it is.

I’m not talking about why the Knicks are playing him, though there’s definitely a discussion to be had about the amount of leash Thibs gives him compared to all the other young players on the team. I’m talking about the BS narrative of this just being his typical slow start.

Yeah not gonna worry about RJ. He’s still very young and is signed here long term and the team is 3-1. We can win games with him being bad.

Maybe he just needs to adjust to having Brunson?

Put more generally, the worst case (i.e. most likely) scenario is that the FO is banking on a nominal “Big 3” of Brunson-Randle-RJ for the next 3 years. Their respective contracts say as much.

Now if a trade possibility presents itself, that can change, but I doubt that this FO and coach see any path to being over .500 that doesn’t involve those 3 being the reason for it. That may change, but it would take a looong time and some significant improvement from others on the roster to derail the RJ-Randle-Brunson train, no matter where it’s headed.

On the brightside of small sample theater, Knicks are 6th in SRS, 5th in net rating, 5th in ORTG, & 8th in DRTG.

We’re 13th in efg% despite being 24th in 3p%.

We’re an elite team as long as we keep playing the Pistons once every 4 games.

The bench is made up mostly of guys who aren’t plus defenders. Quickley is probably the best of the bunch but then it’s Rose, Cam, Obi… we just really don’t have enough good defensive players on the roster. It’s not like the starting lineup is full of plus defenders either.

I think we need at least one strong point of attack defender and another switchable wing who plays plus defense. I don’t see a good defense with the parts we currently have.

Ptmilo recently posted about the highest standard deviations in terms of TS% from players on a game-to-game basis and it confirmed something I’ve always kind of suspected: “streakiness” is a bit of a myth.

At the end of the day you’re either good enough consistently to contribute to winning over the course of an 82 game season or you’re not. I suppose in theory you could imagine a player who is great for 60 games, but so unfathomably dreadful for 22 that his stats genuinely belie his contributions. In reality things like that do not happen for RJ Barrett or anyone else. He’s mostly been bad and his stats correctly reflect that.

To me this raises a few interesting questions:

1) if/when Grimes gets healthy, and if RJ doesn’t substantially improve, how long does the guaranteed 32 minutes/15+ shots treatment last?

2) what does a scaled back version of the RJ Barrett experience look like? I suppose 2020-2021 is a good template. He wasn’t “good” per se but I don’t think he was actively detrimental either. Of course, he succeeded in that role because he hit 40% of his 3s. It’s not a template that works all that well if he never approaches that again.

IIRC, there was a time fairly early in the 4th quarter when Obi was in there with the other 4 starters. So, maybe Thibs is taking peeks at him with the starters to see how things fare?

Cam has flashed both good and bad, but I really hope Grimes can start getting worked in soon.

My hope was that RJ would add a little bit of skill in the offseason and improve his decision making with the ball from the experience last year. If you throw in an occasional extra easy basket from Brunson and take away an occasional desperation shot because we have a more functional offense his TS% should rise.

Maybe he has improved his FT shooting a little (we’ll see) and he’ll probably get that extra easy look once in awhile. So he’ll ultimately raise his TS% a bit as the season moves on. But I see zero evidence that his shot selection, decision making, and control over his game has changed at all. That’s a problem. It’s really the major difference between being the high usage low efficiency player he is now and being quite good.

He’s not the #1 option. He has to stop thinking about points per game and start focusing on efficiency, adding 1 assist a game, adding 1 rebound a game and then suddenly he’s a damn good player.

It’s not like he’s just a scorer and we need him to be hyper efficient. He’s fine on defense and does a few other things OK. He just has to inch forward and start playing the right way.

@EB

Yeah, rest of the team has played well so far and I’d love to eat my words on Randle but I definitely don’t trust him yet. I do wonder how long our offense is going to look good if our early numbers stay basically where they are. So far we’re not getting to the line at all (last in FTr), we can’t shoot 3s (33%), and we can’t finish at the rim (we’re shooting 65.6% at the rim which is basically identical to last year when we finished 5th worst in the league).

“I’m talking about the BS narrative of this just being his typical slow start.”

His career TS% splits are by far the worst in Nov (.451) and Dec (.458) so there is some truth to him being a slow starter since those months are around 50 points lower than all of his other months. What is deeply concerning is that his high water mark for Nov-Mar (those 5 months include 80% of his games) is .537. So even if you accept the narrative that he’s a slow starter, he only goes from “vomit-inducing” to “extremely mediocre.”

But the hope (!) is that he’s one of those guys for whom improvement in his TS% is not linear, that his efficiency will catch up to his expanding role. It’s the exact opposite of the approach with Obi, whose role is extremely limited to higher percentage opportunities and who doesn’t get more minutes no matter how efficiently he scores.

Alas, all I can do is hope that the “individualized” approach to player development works out well for both.

RJ is not playing well, yesterday’s turnovers were very annoying, it’s a problem and the coaching staff must work on his “tendencies”, but every Knicks’ fan must pray for him to improve (or return to normalcy or whatever) because he’s not going anywhere until, if ever, he’ll be traded.
He’s gonna play 30-40 minutes a game for the foreseeable future maybe, but just maybe, 30 if he’s bad and 40 if he’s good.

I’m not saying I agree, just “tuning my expectations” (and keeping my blood pressure low).

A team can’t change his view on a just-extended 22 years old player after 4 games of the season.
The extension put the previous seasons “away”, it’s the FO’s judgement on his previous production and a hope for his next one, no matter what we think about how he played.

You know Alan, for someone who talks up their GIF game a lot I’m pretty disappointed in your comment:

My philosophy is that if you can’t embed the pic, it’s not worth linking to it elsewhere.

Our roster was better than last night’s CHA. That’s why it’s frustrating that they struggled. They didn’t pay attention to detail resulting in blown defensive assignments and TO’s. I can forgive that. It’s early and next time, hopefully, they win this kind of game by 20. What I don’t like are two plays by Julius. One, not getting back after not getting a call and giving up an unguarded three. And the frustration foul, just putting his hands on a guys chest. These are avoidable mistakes.
That being said, CHA shot almost 50 percent from the field. So, that’s hard to pull away from. Good game. Brunson a gem.

“Ptmilo recently posted about the highest standard deviations in terms of TS% from players on a game-to-game basis and it confirmed something I’ve always kind of suspected: “streakiness” is a bit of a myth.”

I missed that post.

I’m not buying it when it comes to RJ.

If you want to say he’s a bad shooter, we all know that.

If you want to say his shooting is not volatile, I’d even buy that.

However, his decision making changes when he’s going bad. That changes his shot selection and that leads to even worse results.

IMO, there’s almost no question that when RJ is going bad, his aggression level rises and it brings out all his bad tendencies to a higher degree. For most players it’s actually the other way around. They get a little gun shy and will pass on their normal tougher ones.

Is it 1 extra bad shot, 2 extra bad shots etc.. in the game?

I couldn’t tell you.

Taking an extra couple of 30% shots that can exacerbate a problem once in awhile is going to be hard to measure.

But he’s on record saying that he doesn’t let misses impact his confidence and IMO it’s obvious he overcompensates.

“Gambling” value is often located in the exceptions. It’s in the exceptions that aggregate stats/models break down.

My mind really hasn’t changed about RJ. Progress isn’t always linear, so hopefully this is just one of those awkward phases before he improves.

I’m just apoplectic about Twitter’s RJ apologism. Except it’s not even apologism, they legitimately think he’s been decent-to-good.

If we weren’t 3-1 KB would be discussing who is having a worse season, RJ or Russ?

RJ -7.7 BPM. Russ -6.8 BPM.

Just for the record, since we are making such a huge deal over RJ’s shooting, his 2p% and FT% are both the highest of his career and 3 point shooting is notoriously volatile.

We know before it’s all over he’s going to get that 3p% somewhere in the 30s. So if he sustains his a career high 2p% and FT% he’ll ultimately have a higher TS% than he had last year.

The immediate problem is the things he’s doing wrong as a basketball player in his decision making that are impacting his TS%. Some of those things are easier to correct. The shooting itself is a multi year process.

As I said last thread, RJ’s marginally better 2p% over his best year (.005 better). He shot 40% from 3 that year and still finished with a far below average .535 TS%.

If he gets his 3p% into the 30s, he’s still awful.

RJ needs to be better everywhere.

There’s still a lot of small sample size theater going on with the Knicks writ large.

Last year the team was the #1 defensive rebounding team in the league. This year, with mostly similar personnel, they’re 26th. I’d imagine we end up doing better than 26th there.

Last year the Knicks were #2 in FT/FGA, this year they’re 30th. That’s just an odd anomaly and I imagine we’ll be quite a bit better there too.

So far the Knicks are avoiding turnovers (the Brunson effect) and getting a lot of offensive rebounds, so we’re not having too many empty possessions. Which is good! But the team numbers are still wonky due to SSS. We don’t really know what kind of team we are yet.

My mind really hasn’t changed about RJ. Progress isn’t always linear, so hopefully this is just one of those awkward phases before he improves.

Problem is, has he made any improvement at all in 4 years? Other than his FT shooting, what can we say he’s actually better at today than he was as a rookie?

Just for the record, since we are making such a huge deal over RJ’s shooting, his 2p% and FT% are both the highest of his career and 3 point shooting is notoriously volatile.

RJ’s 2FG% is the highest of his career by 0.5%, not exactly a real improvement. Also, all of that improvement has come from 3-10 feet where he’s shooting 35% vs 30% for the rest of his career; his shooting at the rim and on long 2s is exactly in line with his career numbers. Also, what are we basing “3 point shooting is notoriously volatile” on?

fun game right…we won 🙂

coming to realize all this constant introspection makes me feel like i’m about to, or am, crumbling all the time…i get it though, it’s the way to heal…

thought for the days: Unconditional Positive Regard for Yourself

be aware of the small victories, feel joy, not mania…

not really doing the xani’s or edibles anymore…

pot luck at work, dressing up as a knick fan (finallyt get to start wearing my gear)…i’ll compromise and go with the edible and a muscle relaxant…

just gotta remember to hit the clear eyes, otherwise my peeps start glowing red, not a good look with the lights on…

>As I said last thread, RJ’s marginally better 2p% over his best year (.005 better). He shot 40% from 3 that year and still finished with a far below average .535 TS%.<

Getting to the FT line more and hitting a higher % of those helps also.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

He has to improve his decision making when he drives. That alone will add a little to both his TS% and AST%.

He has to stay under control when things are going badly.

He has to stop thinking like a "star player and #1 option" when at this stage he's actually more of a 3rd or 4th option that previously had high usage because our team was so bad and he was one of the few players that could create off the bounce at all.

These are mostly mental things that can be changed quickly. He's not a low IQ player. He has the wrong mindset for his skill level. It's mostly on Thibs to reign him in, but without damaging his confidence.

Improving his shooting noticeably will take years “if” it ever comes.

“We know before it’s all over he’s going to get that 3p% somewhere in the 30s. So if he sustains his a career high 2p% and FT% he’ll ultimately have a higher TS% than he had last year.”

Give him his 3PT% from last year and his TS% on the season blossoms to a whopping .518, even with the .875 FT% that isn’t gonna last. This goes well beyond a missing threes problem.

I’m not sure what everyone else was hoping for from RJ, but I was hoping for something around 17 points per 36, a TS% of 54%-55%, and getting close to 4 assists and 7 rebounds per 36.

IMO, those are all still very achievable numbers if he changes his mindset.

Knicks are right were we hopped they’d be at 3:1 with similar ratio on promising vs. concerning things to watch.

Thought 5:5 at the end of 10 games was an optimisticly reasonable goal at the start of the season, – is that bar too low now?

“Give him his 3PT% from last year and his TS% on the season blossoms to a whopping .518, even with the .875 FT% that isn’t gonna last. This goes well beyond a missing threes problem”

TNFH, – Spot on. RJ is not an elite basketball player.

On the brighter side, Katz has a short but fascinating write up of a phenomenon I’ve noticed: we’ve been taking a lot of floaters. I won’t spoil too much, but seems like there’s reason to believe they’re much more effective than most midrange shots.

Also, as an avowed skeptic, I give Thibs credit for what seems like a genuine application of analytics when it comes to our shot distribution.

https://theathletic.com/3735994/2022/10/27/knicks-floaters-offensively/

Jalen is the best point guard we have had since Clyde.

Strat – the only post PT has made in like a month was a direct response to you. Proof-of-life kind of stuff. Can’t believe you missed it.

“Strat – the only post PT has made in like a month was a direct response to you. Proof-of-life kind of stuff. Can’t believe you missed it.”

If you can find it, let me know. I can never find anything using the search function.

Once I’m done posting for the day, I usually don’t catch up with the rest of the thread the next day. I start off fresh.

I’m sure the stats will be correct in aggregate, but they won’t capture what I am talking about.

If you guys think RJ-a career 35% 3 point shooter-is going to make 14% of his 3PA going forward you should panic. If not you should be more realistic about things

Literally no one thinks that and that’s not at all what we’ve been discussing.

The play the most annoyed me by Randle last night was near the end of OT when Charlotte airballed a 3 and Randle inexplicably tried to save the ball instead of just letting it go out of bounds. It ended up with Charlotte getting the ball again. They didn’t score so it lucked out but that was a really boneheaded play. Clyde even pointed it out that he was playing hard but not smart. That could have been a worst case scenario where he “saved” the ball but it got into Charlotte’s hands and they get an easy bucket because Randle is on the floor out of bounds and Charlotte has an advantage.

At least it wasn’t a frustration/pouty thing, he was legitimately trying hard. But just not super smart.

I hate using terms like “smart” and “dumb” when it comes to basketball players but Randle in crunch times isn’t always the smartest player. This is why Brunson helps so much. Dude just knows what needs to happen in certain situations and doesn’t make many unforced errors.

Is Jalen the best PG we’ve seen since prime Marbury?

The Marbury period turned out to be such a dumpster fire that it’s hard to remember the good parts of it, and/or the good parts of his individual play. Certainly, Brunson is the most confident I’ve felt in a Knicks point guard at least since the three weeks of Linsanity ended, and possibly since the days of Mark Jackson and Rod Strickland. But Owen may be right about going back to Clyde. We have been SO bad at this position for so long.

I think the conversation about RJ here would be functionally the same if he had hit 35% of his 3s this year

One of the big problems (there are so many…) with RJ four games in is the visuals. He’s making consistent boneheaded unforced errors, on offense and defense. He’s completely replaced Randle as the guy who gets my stomach muscles clenching the moment he touches the ball.

Yesterday was the first time I can remember this season that Randle made similar boneheaded plays (e.g., the foul). He’s been far from perfect, but he’s mostly stayed in the flow. With lots of those “No Julius, don’t… okay, that worked.”

They’re a bit like Dumb and Dumber. Which was a movie I struggled to watch in parts, much like these games.

Edit: Just saw what Walker posted. Apparently I have no such qualms.

Excellent game by Brunson. This is exactly what Randle needs. Someone else willing to come in, control the offense, & take (and make) the big shots. He’s not the 1A player we need, but you can see that it aids Randle, who obviously loses his cool at times. Most notably, when he doesn’t get a call. He gets so mad at those junctures. It’s one thing to act hurt/angry when you don’t get a call to signal to the officials that you’ve been wronged. It’s another to then go hack another player and hurt your team when it happens. Randle did the latter at least twice yesterday by my count. I wonder if the coaching staff has addressed this???

And this is exhibit A as to why I believed Randle is tradable for assets. If this is what Brunson can do for him, imagine what LeBron or Kawhi could.

Also, Mike K counted two yesterday, I counted three in the Memphis game, that’s five times his emotions led to negative plays in crunch time during two overtime games. I don’t know if that meditation’s working.

The play the most annoyed me by Randle last night was near the end of OT when Charlotte airballed a 3 and Randle inexplicably tried to save the ball instead of just letting it go out of bounds. It ended up with Charlotte getting the ball again.

If it’s the same play I’m thinking, the ball had already hit him before he tried to save it;

if/when Grimes gets healthy, and if RJ doesn’t substantially improve, how long does the guaranteed 32 minutes/15+ shots treatment last?

My honest answer is probably all year.

We don’t adjust here. We repeat and try harder.

Edit: great minds think alike apparently but I can’t delete it now

Randle jumping out of bounds to recover an airball at the end of the game rather than just boxing out his man and letting it fall harmlessly was the kind of play that he routinely makes that other star player’s don’t. Just totally inexplicable on top of that take foul on Oubre.

And Randle was right about getting fouled but you can’t be that petulant if you want to win the game.

Great piece on the floater from the Ringer (actually from the Athletic ty Hubert), thank you for posting

Yes, that piece was good. And I almost didn’t read it bc Owen said it was from the ringer (it’s the athletic, i.e. it’s good).

Like Noble, I too will give Thibs credit for this adjustment. He’s been more pliable than I give him credit for.

I just re-watched the last 4+ minutes of regulation and all of overtime, keying on RJ’s D. He was mostly guarding Hayward, battling over and through screens, staying either in front of him or on his hip. At the 3 minute mark, RJ committed a turnover on a lob to Mitch and recovered to stop a 4-on-1 fast break by blocking DSJ’s shot. On the last possession of regulation, he switched with Julius onto P.J. and wouldn’t allow P.J. to get open for a 3. Hayward then blew by Julius and missed a very makeable floater. In OT, RJ’s only “negative” play on D was in the last minute, RJ was guarding Oubre, who drove right, got bottled up by Mitch and RJ and then hit that little floater mostly over Mitch but you could argue that they both relaxed too much. Hayward had one “open” 20-footer in OT that he missed, so that could be seen as a negative. But everyone else-Mitch, Julius, Cam, and especially Brunson-had much more egregious defensive lapses than RJ, and Hayward is a very good offensive player.

So if he got beat back door, it certainly wasn’t in crunch time.

RJ’s D is a huge part of why Thibs loves him, and he was very, very good in the last 9 minutes of this game.

“Randle jumping out of bounds to recover an airball at the end of the game rather than just boxing out his man and letting it fall harmlessly was the kind of play that he routinely makes that other star player’s don’t. Just totally inexplicable on top of that take foul on Oubre.”

If you look carefully, it seems that he had already touched it and knew that it would be out on him.

Z-Man – I didn’t tape the game and couldn’t find the highlight on Youtube. And the announcers didn’t mention it touching him. But that would explain it for sure.

If you look carefully, it seems that he had already touched it and knew that it would be out on him.

Interesting. I would still say the better move would be to let the ball go out of bounds. I don’t think you should ever try to “rescue” a ball like that when you’re on defense. Too big of a chance it gets in the opponent’s hands. On offense it makes more sense. You’re already on your end of the basket.

(1) RJ is tied for the worst 2p% on the team. It’s not just his 3p%. See also TOs, wtf

(2) RJ has a lower FT rate than any previous year. It likely regresses to his career average, but it doesn’t make his last 4 games look any better.

(3) RJ played a lot more minutes than just crunch time and got beat backdoor repeatedly

RJ Barrett is the worst Knick draft pick signed past his rookie deal since _____________.

*** We can win games with him being bad.***

It helps for the other team to be bad too.

Damn, Donnie.

Did Greg Anthony sign an extension?

Is RJ Barrett better than my namesake, Hubert Davis?

Was Charlie Ward good?

These are not the questions I thought I’d be pondering today.

RJ Barrett is the worst Knick draft pick signed past his rookie deal since _____________.

Charlie Ward. Duh.

Z–Man, happy to stand corrected on RJ’s defense at the end of the game. There seemed to be a lot of open backdoors toward the end where RJ was kind of standing around but there could have been switches where it wasn’t his responsibility.

Speaking of interesting D, there were two really nice plays where D Rose got through picks with some brilliant and wily vet moves, one a quick spin move that got him under (and avoiding any contact) but right back on the ball before anything bad could happen. Small things, but smart things.

Here’s the problem. Typically we use data and we say that if a guy’s a good FT shooter, ultimately his “regular” shot will come around. But there’s an embedded assumption within that data, which is that a guy’s free throw form is essentially the same as his “regular” shot form. When that embedded assumption holds, then, yes, it doesn’t really “make sense” that a guy could be a, say, 82% FT shooter and a bricklayer from deep or in general.

(The opposite also holds true, of course — if a guy’s a bricklayer from the line, it doesn’t surprise if he lays brick “regularly,” but again, there’s typically a form match that keeps the relationship and the correlation tight.)

But if you’ll notice, RJ Barrett has decided to try to improve his FT shooting by spreading his feet very wide when he shoots free throws (*) and as a result has severed the typical mainstream relationship between FT shooting and “regular” shooting. So there’s no longer any real reason to think his FT shooting improvement will lead to better “regular” shooting.

It’s actually potentially worse. In the effort to improve his FT shooting and in taking all the shooting reps with his feet and legs unnaturally splayed, he might have, subtly or otherwise, fucked up his “regular” shooting form.(**) In fact, I strongly suspect that has happened.

(*) Most likely in an effort to eliminate or greatly reduce “excess movement” or drift.

(**) Yes, his regular shooting form wasn’t great to begin with — but it’s always possible to get worse.

I understand why Joe Schoen did it but I hate giving up on a talent like Toney so soon. Also would have been cool if they had traded him to a team that didn’t have Pat Mahomes.

Schubert, I have made peace with the idea that it just wasn’t going to happen with him on the Giants. It’s better to get something of value for him, rather than going with the sunk cost fallacy.

Another great job by Dave Gettleman!

The play the most annoyed me by Randle last night was near the end of OT when Charlotte airballed a 3 and Randle inexplicably tried to save the ball instead of just letting it go out of bounds.

That shot missed so badly that I think Julius thought it was partially blocked. I remember at the time wondering if it had been blocked myself.

Well, if we are so sure RJ still sucks and has made no progress after 4 games we must also be pretty sure Cam is very good and made a lot of progress because he’s averaging 16.7 points per 36 with a TS% 63.9%.

Then again, maybe RJ made some progress that has been revealed in the data yet and Cam got better too, but not that much better.

RJ got legit back-doored down the lane by Hayward at around the 5 minute mark of the 3rd. Then he lost Hayward on a rebound for an easy putback. But the team in general had issues with back-door plays and boxing out. Seems like CHA’s hot shooting had them leaning out.

Give CHA credit, they seem well-coached and can score. Bouknight and Maledon are interesting, and if DSJ keeps it up, they are going to have a very deep, young bench, maybe better than ours. Beating the Hawks on the road w/o LaMelo and Rozier is a pretty big deal.

Quote for Cdiggy to send around to his ‘pals,’ from The Athletic:

The Lakers “continued the worst 3-point shooting start by a team in NBA history. Los Angeles has yet to shoot even 30 percent from 3 in a game this season.”

And that’s without Westbrook last night!

I rewatched most of the game. Brunson has a long, long way to go on the defensive end. He’ll be going up against some very good PGs in the next two weeks, so that needs to improve.

he’s 26 and has only been playing ball for 20 years or so — cut him some slack

Saying that Brunson is the best NYK PG since Clyde is like saying Mitch is the best NYK C since Patrick Ewing.

I don’t want Jimmy Butler because of his age but a younger 2 way Shooting Guard all-star level player like Jimmy Butler who is a good defender and can give an offensive punch is what will take this team to the next level. And no…I don’t mean Grimes.

Saying that Brunson is the best NYK PG since Clyde is like saying Mitch is the best NYK C since Patrick Ewing.

I won’t abide any Derek Harper slander.

“I won’t abide any Derek Harper slander.”

I think you can make an argument for Harper, Rivers, Strickland, Jackson, and Richardson. But strictly on the offensive side of the ball, Brunson might be the best since Clyde. Steph’s 2004-05 season seems pretty special on the surface, but he only averaged 19.5 pts and 7.3 assists per 36 on a TS% of .575. He also had no leadership ability and that team went 33-49 (it was a lousy team, so maybe he needed to shoot more than he did, his usage was under 25%.)

Brunson is averaging 20.9 pts and 8.9 assists per 36 with more rebounds and less turnovers, and on a 21.6% usage. And he’s doing it the same way he did in Dallas, except with a higher AST%, although his numbers when Luka was out are similar, I think.

But his defense is really a concern, and pairing him with Spida would have been a really bad idea. I don’t know if Grimes is the answer, but Fournier definitely isn’t the answer. Thibs seems to realize this and is trying IQ and Cam, but neither guy has really distinguished himself yet.

Can we get Reggie Bullock back? (just kidding!)

Well, if we are so sure RJ still sucks and has made no progress after 4 games we must also be pretty sure Cam is very good and made a lot of progress because he’s averaging 16.7 points per 36 with a TS% 63.9%.

Then again, maybe RJ made some progress that has been revealed in the data yet and Cam got better too, but not that much better.

I’ve not neen talking about longterm potential. I’ve been talking about the last 4 games. He’s sucked.

– But in regards to long term potential:

– RJ has now sucked for 3 years and 4 games.

Cam sucked for 4 straight years and has played 1 very good game and 3 meh games.

It’s not the 4 games, it’s the 3 or 4 years.

For Brunson & Marburyand comparing across eras it’s important to use per 100 stats and league-adjusted numbers because the pace of play and efficiency has shifted upwards in the last couple decades.

When Marbury had a .575 TS% the league average was .528. That’s a 109TS+. Brunson is currently at 108 TS+.

Per 100 possessions Marbury put up more points than Brunson has ( but just barely 28.7 to 28). Note, Brunson benefits from greater awareness of efficient shots, there will be a much greater difference if you compare to league averages at the time.

Marbury still has fewer assists than Brunson and more TOs per 100 possessions but the assist gap also closes. Offensive schemes and league averages may have also changed for these.

Also, probably want to wait for the Knicks to play more than 4 games.

2-way point guards are a pretty rare commodity in the NBA (and I mean excelling on both sides of the ball) The only ones I can think of are Jrue Holiday and Marcus Smart, and they both are not great offensive players.

If Brunson were a great defender, he would be one of the top PG”s in the league, just behind Luka and Steph.

>It’s not the 4 games, it’s the 3 or 4 years.<

It you look beyond stats to role, skills and other factors, IMO RJ has gotten better each year. It didn't translate into improved boxscore metrics last year in part because he started doing more difficult things last year than the year before.

His pace of his improvement is slower than the typical future star player on the same age curve. That improvement is unlikely to accelerate. I’d say He's on a slow pace to become a very good player. But as I keep saying, some of what is holding back now is attitude. That can be fixed quickly if Thibs reigns him in. The rest will come slowly.

Cam is probably improving faster than RJ, but from a lower base and with a series of injuries all the way back to college that delayed his development. It would not surprise me if Cam is the better scorer/offensive player soon. He may already be. Cam has to be reigned in too. He also tries to do too much, but he also has to do more than just score. He's less well rounded than RJ.

I think both are going to be good to very good players eventually. They just won't be real star players.

Tyson Chandler was pretty good. Mitch isn’t better than him yet.

Marbury ate vaseline, something Jalen Brunson has never done

Best PG since Clyde was Michael Ray Richardson. Traded for the best player we’ve had since Clyde, Bernard King. I liked Doc Rivers when he played point for us. I loved Derrick Harper, but he wasn’t really an iconic PG. Perfect on those Knicks but not a prolific creator. If JB keeps this up and the team plays a couple of rounds in the playoffs, he’ll put himself on a short list.

Progression isn’t linear, so hopefully this is a prelude to RJ getting his 20 efficiently. Maybe it helps him work out the kinks, idk.

But what countervailing forces might contradict his supposed playmaker.

We can’t just look at what he’s doing right or assume things will get better.

If anything this attitude towards getting 20 is a recent development. Perhaps he’s trending the wrong way?

If my math is right, he’s taking about 1 more shot at the basket and picking up 1 less assist than last year. His becoming a “scorer” might just be sacrificing his playmaking.

Michael Ray Richardson’s numbers don’t exactly jump off the page.

Starbury had one great season as a Knick but his career was super meh overall.

EB those are all good points. I was never a fan of Steph’s game or demeanor, but in a vacuum he was supremely talented and was really good that particular year. But that’s it! That year was the only one he put up a BPM of over 4 for us and we still sucked. And then after that he was never above 0.2. Since he was acquired in a lopsided trade and was on a supermax contract, it’s hard to paint him in any kind of positive light in retrospect.

And that’s what makes Brunson so refreshing. He’s on a favorable contract and cost virtually nothing to acquire (I don’t count the cap-clearing moves as a direct cost, as they were fine moves on their own whether we ended up with Brunson or not.) He doesn’t come with the mind-blowing rags-to-riches bound to turn into a pumpkin at midnight hype that Lin did, or the outsized expectations that come with a max contract or a high draft pick. Nothing he is doing so far is inconsistent with what he was doing in Dallas. He’s been exactly what we had the right to expect him to be, without the “if he can only improve (fill in the blanks)” caveats, and there’s no reason in looking at his stats (especially those without Luka) to think that he will become something much different.

And maybe that’s where he brings me way back to Clyde. Based on his age, health, attitude, skillset, b-ball IQ, and desire to come to NY despite better opportunity in DAL, he seems like someone who will play around this level for at least 3 years and probably beyond, although that player option is concerning if he keeps it up.

“It you look beyond stats to role, skills and other factors, IMO RJ has gotten better each year.”

…at driving the bus. …at playing cards on the plane. …at wordle.

It didn’t translate into improved boxscore metrics last year in part because he started doing more difficult things last year than the year before.

Okay, but I don’t want him to do more difficult things I want him to do easy things… like make layups, pass to open teammates, and not drive into 3 defenders. Those would make him better than doing hard things.

Why would anyone want a player to do harder things when they can get better by doing easier things?

What specifically is he doing anyways?

I’m just not seeing how RJ improves his FG%. He’s not fast or especially athletic. He’s not strong enough to move his defender out of the way. He always goes left. Every shot at the rim is contested, and he hasn’t shown much additional craft in getting the ball around defenders in a way that has a prayer of dropping in.

I was hoping he’d work on that last part this off-season, but it looks worse than ever. So while his willingness to attack the basket is admirable, he’ll never be efficient there unless he learns to get fouled a lot more.

IMO Marbury was overrated. He put up numbers, but he wasn’t a good defender and didn’t make his teams or teammates much better.

One of the better indications of that was what happened when Kidd replaced Marbury for NJ.

>I’m just not seeing how RJ improves his FG%. <

Setting aside the potential for long term improvement of his shot, he can get now better by doing less. Part of his problem is exactly what you are describing. He's trying to do things he's not efficient at. That was somewhat excusable last year because we had no PG and very little shot creation. In some ways he was one of the least bad options to create. But Brunson solved two problem. He can be a major scoring option on this team and get RJ/Randle etc.. an occasional easier look as the PG. But right now, RJ think of himself as an all-star or at least that's his goal. It's the wrong goal. How we get him to accept what he is now and stay in his lane is on Thibs. But it can and should be done this year if he keeps throwing up bricks and getting his shot blocked. We have good options snow.

” Part of his problem is exactly what you are describing. He’s trying to do things he’s not efficient at.”

Ok but then what is he efficient at? Because from my perspective he seems to be efficient at nothing except maybe FTs.

I think RJ’s main issue so far is missing wide open 3’s. If he can’t consistently make those there is no chance for him to be an efficient scorer.

Rj’s main issue is that he thinks that he is better than he is..and plays like it…..just like strat sayz above…and that act wears thin with teammates after awhile

RJ’s main issue this season is he’s hitting 15% of his catch and shoot shots and 18% of his off the dribble shots. Those numbers are going up.

If you’re wondering how can he get his shooting numbers up, the really easy solution is to stop taking shots between 10′ and the 3 point line, because he sucks at making them.

Alert. Heresy to follow.

I read a stupid post that said RJ sucked because he had to cover for Jalen on defense. I don’t want to enter the RJ fray but here are opponent starting PGs for the 1st 4 games:

Ja Morant 34 pts (11 for 24) 9 ast 4 reb 0 stl 1 to
Cade Cunningham 15 pts (6 for 16) 7 ast 8 reb 2 stl 4 to
Cole Anthony 14 pts (6 for 18) 4 ast 4 reb 1 stl 1 to
Dennis Smith Jr 14 pts (7 for 16) 11 ast 3 reb 2 stl 1 to

Total is effectively 40% FG%, 19.25 ppg which does point out a scary trend – being a poor defender.

Not sure what you are driving at exactly but will say that Dennis Smith Jr actually impressed me. That clutch layup over Mitch was incredible, his passing was excellent, and he showed quick hands on defense.

I thought he would be out of the league by now but he appears to have a future in the NBA.

This Nets-Mavs game is good. Can’t wait to watch Simmons on Luka in crunch time.

Simmons strips Luka and then gets it to KD for the tying bucket.

May have a future in the NBA still

Ja Morant kills and eats dragons for breakfast.
Cade Cunningham is eleven feet tall (well 6’7″), and .375 from the field isn’t exactly all-star level. In fact it kind of sucks.
Cole Anthony shot .333. That is pretty much in RJ’s opening camp suckitude.
Dennis Smith Jr. was enacting revenge, and while he played a nice game, and his assist total is great, he didn’t exactly torch the Knicks.

Honestly, hard to glean anything from these first four. One was against a transcendent superstar with MVP chatter. Three were against the meh of point guards. I’d argue he does fine against meh players.

Meanwhile, Dr. Brunson is averaging 20.0 ppg, with 51.7% accuracy, 8.5 asts, 4.5 reb, and 1 steal per game. Either he’s pretty damn good, or they’re all really pretty damn bad at defense.

I know Luka is a great player and has some amazing highlights but I don’t like watching him and his team play. Similar to James Harden for me.

Having said that those behind the back assists on back to back possessions was insane.

I enjoy Luka. I would enjoy him more if he were a Knick. He is an idiot savant. Don’t know how he does it but he is incredible at basketball.

If three point shots aren’t your thing I can understand not liking the Mavs.

I find it kind of hilarious the Nets have a guy named David Duke Jr. on the team. Does not appear to be the son of one of the major bogeymen of my youth.

I won’t be able to see much of the game tomorrow night but I hope we can fuck up the bucks. we need to be fired up and take it to them.

Friday night Knicks is Saturday morning here and so usually not actually during work hours for once in the week. I’m looking forward to watching the whole game

Fred VanVleet, Desmond Bane and Jalen Brunson fell into the same category in the draft. Worship of the False Gods of wingspan. height, athleticism, efficiency, etc. obscured the essential question: can he play basketball or not?

I have to say that looking at standings and seeing the Kings tied with the Lakers at the bottom of the west with 0-4 records that I am rooting for the Kings to win the VW sweepstakes.

***Jimmy Butler’s age-36 season: $52M***

Jimmy Butler is 33 and hasn’t begun to decline yet. In fact, I’m not sure he has even peaked. (His line from today vs GS is almost worth $52M alone)

I am rooting for the Kings to win the VW sweepstakes.

What did Victor Wembanyama ever do to you?

took a nap this afternoon, like for a couple of hours…

I could do some work, but I won’t, did take my dragonknight for a stroll through cyrodiil…re-watching the charlotte game now…

a couple of folks have mentioned it already – julius and RJ aren’t complementary players, they’re duplicative…

point of the story, if I had to chose to keep just one of them, I’d hang on to julius…

he’s a passionate person (read: somewhat seemingly emotionally unstable, at times), his physical toolset though as it relates to basketball is phenomenal…

it far exceeds RJ’s…

the thing that maybe bugs me the most about julius is the cheapshots he takes at other players…

it looks weird for such a big guy to be so petty in the moment…I don’t know, best I not judge…

What did Victor Wembanyama ever do to you

I feel sorry for Kings fans. I never thought about how Victor would feel. I did have the thought that the Kings being the Kings they might even trade down in the draft or pick someone other than him and repeat their Doncic mistake but I pushed that thought aside.

Sacramento is a beautiful place. So, for that matter, are San Antonio, Indianapolis, and Oklahoma City.

Although with the way things are going New Orleans may be in the conversation thanks to the Lakers.

The French invented the buffet and I am sure VW loves his options

Steph’s 2004-05 season seems pretty special on the surface, but he only averaged 19.5 pts and 7.3 assists per 36 on a TS% of .575. He also had no leadership ability and that team went 33-49 (it was a lousy team, so maybe he needed to shoot more than he did, his usage was under 25%.)

Marbury led the Beijing Ducks to 3 championships, and they had a winning record every year he was there. Clearly he had great leadership abilities!

One of the better indications of that was what happened when Kidd replaced Marbury for NJ.

1. Kidd was a HOF PG.
2. Marbury/Kidd wasn’t the only swap. They added Kittles & Jefferson, and Kmart was a rookie with Steph. If you look at the rosters of those two teams, it’s not even close.

I can’t believe I’m defending Stephon Marbury, but here we are.

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