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Does LeBron James’ admission mean Lakers should trade for Evan Fournier? Daily Knicks
57 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.10.24)”
I assume JazzBlogger.net is under turmoil. What the hell are they doing?
100%
Remember they lucked themselves into a last second win, so the record is slightly misleading.
This team is similar to the Sanchez Jets. Good defense. Strong running attack. Decent options at WR. And a questionable QB. So the team will only be able to go so far. Wilson will probably (incorrectly) get credit for the Jets’ turnabout, partially because Flacco is so so bad. (How is he still the backup???) But really he’s the worst part of the team, at the most critical position.
I’m not saying Wilson is garbage, but he’s in the bottom tier in QBR. And the Jets have a decent core to workaround. Either Wilson will need to take another big step, or the Jets are going to repeat what they did with Sanchez. Wait too long to figure out he’s not the right guy, and lose the window they have on winning.
The Yankees have consistently underperformed expectations for most of the last 21 years. Are we not supposed to discuss the reasons and potential solutions?
I realize that Yankees fans as a whole are obnoxious and entitled, booing everyone and everything they can. But the ones on this particular board are pretty reasonable and the conversations we have focus on real problems just like when talk is about the Jets, Mets, or Knicks.
Thib’s latest comments are either geared towards improving Cam’s market value for trade purposes or an indication that he likes what he is seeing so far this year in practice and on the court.
He also stressed what I’ve been saying about him. He said “practice” is a big part of what he uses to determine who gets minutes because he finds that if a player is practicing well he’ll tend to perform well in games.
Not a football guy but it has always seemed to me that spending money on defense and on your offensive line is the optimal strategy.
Maybe I think this due to having seen Jeff Hostetler win a Super Bowl as a kid but given how cheap running backs are and how fungible receiver seems to be (Super Bowl hero David Tyree?) and given the fact you can score points on defense, I don’t know, it just makes sense.
Quarterback performance oscillates very very widely from year to year, see Russell Wilson and Geno Smith, and the simplest answer as to why is that offensive lines explain more of offense than they are given credit for.
And yes, I know this is all naive rambling, but it’s too late in life to tackle pigskinmetrics….
Mostly agree, Mike, although I’m not as pessimistic on Zach as you seem to be. The offensive line is so very bad that I don’t want to judge too quickly. But for example that miss on a little possession pass to the TE in the 4th is a pass that a good QB never misses. That really bugged me.
And Saleh is interesting as a young head coach. He’s got lots of charisma and seems to have a good feel for the flow of the game. But what was up with waiting for the quarter to end to punt into the wind rather than speed things up to get that punt off? That probably cost 25 yards of field position.
Mostly though the offense looks imaginative enough to score a few points, but this team is all about a legit defense being trusted to win a field position game of attrition. I just don’t see that working against a team that can put lots of points on the board. The two Bills games will be an excellent measuring stick for where the franchise stands.
Some of the Yankees takes have been a bit out there for my tastes. I guess that’s inevitable after the playoffs. They’re basically designed to generate narratives in what is realistically too short of a period of time to draw any real conclusions.
I would not let Aaron Judge’s 2022 playoff performance impact my evaluation of the wisdom of re-signing him. Until two weeks ago he had a very good playoff track record. It is what it is.
Personally I think when you have a 95-100 win team it would be extremely lame to let the steroid era Barry Bonds-adjacent guy walk. I also think Judge has as good a chance as basically anyone to be productive for, say, 5-7 more years. My issues with the Yankees are at many of the other positions.
For the first time in a while I actually feel decent about the rotation going forward. You could do a lot worse than having Cole, Nestor, Severino, and Montas under contract. Obviously you can never have too much pitching but it’s not an area we really need to prioritize.
The bullpen is a god damn mess. We need about 5 high-leverage relievers. I have no idea how that will get done, but Cashman has impressed me in the past with bullpen additions. Maybe he can pull more rabbits out of that particular hat.
Other than that, we all know the weaknesses in the lineup. Donaldson and IKF are trash. Rizzo is fine, but not getting any younger and rather unremarkable for a 1B. Stanton is certainly not bad, but if he’s gonna be a full-time DH going forward his production is pretty disappointing by those standards.
We’ll either spend to upgrade, or just hope Volpe/Peraza/Cabrera/Dominguez et al. can give us what we need on the cheap, and do so soon enough to capitalize on the Judge/Cole/Cortes/Stanton window. It will probably be the latter. It probably won’t work.
When we look back at the Judge era (2017–????), I think what we’ll takeaway is just how much elite talent we passed on. Harper, Machado, Correa, Arenado, Freeman, Verlander, and Darvish were all available at some point, and we went with the Rizzos and IKFs and Donaldsons of the world instead. The results have been unsurprising.
Lastly, I think a lot of non-Yankee fans misunderstand gripes about Hal’s spending constraints. It’s absolutely true that the Yankees are still a high payroll team, even if they no longer blow away the competition. What makes Hal uniquely kind of shitty in this regard is he refuses to blow away the competition, but also refuses to engage in anything resembling a multiyear rebuild.
The Astros and Red Sox don’t spend more than the Yankees, but they’ve shown a willingness to miss the playoffs if it serves a larger goal. The Mets and the Dodgers don’t really have to do that, because they’re willing to spend their way through potential rough patches.
The Yankees are the only team that has a mandate to be competitive every single year, but also has a mandate to not ever pay the repeater tax. Cashman has his hits and misses, but I’m a little hesitant to criticize him too harshly because it’s a pretty difficult framework.
“I assume JazzBlogger.net is under turmoil. What the hell are they doing?”
Ainge still has veterans like Conley, Gay, Clarkson and Beasley on the team. He took Olynyk back in a trade!
Markkanen and Sexton are still young, but they are experienced enough to help win games NOW and long term.
That’s not a good team, but it’s not a team that’s all out tanking for the #1 pick either.
It’s a team that’s transitioning from the unsuccessful Mitchell/Gobert era to accumulating players and picks that can be part of the present and future or help be part of trades for more core pieces and assets at a later date.
He’ll probably move on from a few of the older players later this year. But this is not a team that’s all out tanking. He’s in year one of a faster transition and rebuild using all options open to him.
In a way, I’m glad that Grimes’ injury is giving Thibs an excuse to let Cam play some meaningful rotation minutes. It would be a real plus if Cam’s trade value can be upped, or if Cam can make Grimes expendable in a trade when a better player that shakes loose.
The thing about the Yankees’ spending is that it hasn’t gone up substantially since the 2000s, even as team and league revenue has. So it looks like Hal is giving Cashman a lot of money to work with — which allows Cashman to take a gamble on something like the Stanton trade, which mostly hasn’t worked out — even though the percentage of overall revenue that the team spends on the on-field product is one of the smaller ones in all of MLB.
Meanwhile, on my Giants, Football Outsiders’ Mike Tanier (one of the better guys at balancing football analytics knowledge with the understanding that these guys are human beings and not automatons) argued today that the Giants’ success reminds him of that Tim Tebow-led Broncos team, and that this is as much fools’ gold as the idea that Tebow could be a successful long-term quarterback for any team. The counter I would make is that, because of all the terrible decisions of Dave Gettleman, the Giants have one of the least talented rosters in the NFL, but they appear to have a brilliant coaching staff that has been getting the most out of what they have. The team gets out of cap hell next season, which means they could add a lot of talent in free agency, trades, and the draft. So if Daboll and company can make chicken salad out of chicken shit, imagine what they can do with actual chicken, right?
“The Yankees have consistently underperformed expectations for most of the last 21 years.”
The New York Yankees have won 2,110 games since 2000, which is the most in the MLB. Their record in that timespan was 2,110-1,510. They’ve made the Postseason 19 times in the 23 seasons, which is the most in the MLB. During this span they made the playoffs 82% of the time, only missing the Postseason 4 times in 23 seasons. Since the year 2000, the Yankees have won the World Series 2 times, in 2000 and 2009. The New York Yankees, St. Louis Cardinals, Boston Red Sox, Houston Astros and San Francisco Giants are tied for the most World Series appearances in the MLB since 2000. They each made the World Series 4 times.
I believe we call this first-world problems…
Yeah it’s pretty clear that Ainge and the Jazz are not tanking, did not do the full tear down and rebound. There are plenty of viable NBA players on that team.
I truly don’t know what those takes are. I’m sure they’re terrible. I never see them discussed here.
What I personally discuss is the institutional rot that complacency and frugalness has brought.
The Yankees postseason failures are always written in the winter. When they decided to bring back Boone and go with Hicks, Donaldson, IKF, and a catcher who can’t hit, that was the day this outcome became obvious. You can’t start a season with 4 easy outs in your lineup and not expect it to end like it did. I wasn’t very vocal about it bc I know I can be a downer, but their demise was obvious and inevitable. I was short this team all year, and never wavered.
There’s some institutional arrogance here that refuses to learn its lesson and continues to make the same mistakes over and over.
I completely concur that it was unacceptable to go into the season with a lineup chock full of placeholders. It was arguably even worse to not actually do the replacing of some of those placeholders when guys like Volpe and Peraza looked like they could be contributors this year.
The whole Donaldson boondoggle is probably the worst transaction on Cashman’s record. I write off a lot as the product of Hal being a god awful owner (again, the spending constraints combined with the inflexibility when it comes to rebuilding is what really makes him terrible), but Donaldson involved Cashman spending elite-player money on a replacement level player, and it was obvious at the time.
At the same time, various Cashman moves are the only reason Hal’s pathetic ownership hasn’t totally tanked the team. I don’t think he’s a top-5 or so GM, but I think he’s comfortably top-10 and I don’t trust Hal for one second to find someone better. As crazy and unpopular as it sounds right now, I’d give him a chance to fix this and hope for the best.
I like that both of our PGs seem truly invested in making the players around them better. Brunson and Rose are so similar out there, almost like carbon copies of each other. I suppose that has a downside in that their deficiencies on defense are similar, but there are some ways to mitigate that with schemes.
And the article in today’s NYP about Thibs’ embracing of an uptempo approach is encouraging. It helps that Randle is looking to outlet the ball more and pushing the pace, being that he is one of the best defensive rebounders in the NBA. We didn’t really thoroughly consider the question of whether Randle could thrive in an uptempo offense, probably because most here felt that a Thibs team would not be capable of going uptempo to any significant degree (and the jury is still out on how real this shift is, being that we only have 2 games worth of data and haven’t been punched in the mouth yet.) But so far, Julius has looked great both physically and mentally. He gets most of the credit for that, but Thibs and Leon deserve some for creating a better ecosystem for him. This team is going nowhere without Julius playing something like an all-star, and that seems like at least a possibility right now.
And that’s what this team comes down to. Can it be a “the whole is greater than the sum of the parts” team that is crazy fun to root for because you look forward to every substitution without dreading someone being on the floor? That’s what I’m hoping for.
For all you happy Lakers fans out there:
@kirkgoldsberry
‘Russell Westbrook has made 3 of 17 jump shots this season.
Also, he is the only player that has attempted a jump shot with under 30 seconds to go and 15+ seconds left on the shot clock with their team up by 1 possession in the last 4 seasons.’
It’s always fascinated me that Russell can’t improve his jump shooting. How can someone play for years in the NBA and still be this bad?
“I believe we call this first-world problems…”
Very well said, Raven. As a Mets, Knicks, Jets, and Rangers fan, I don’t even know what it’s like to root for a team that is “championship or bust” for decade upon decade with actual multiple championships. I get that there are legit reasons for the sense of entitlement, but Yankees fans shouldn’t be upset when fans of other teams hate them for it.
Personally, there are other things I can’t stand about the Yankees…the strictness about facial hair and traditional uniforms while being amenable to bringing on insufferable assholes and cheaters like A-Rod and Clemens, and the new Yankee Stadium being such a bandbox are two biggies for me personally. But objectively, there are certainly reasons for Yankees fans to lament managerial moves…they certainly should have more banners than they have.
And I don’t blame others for hating Knicks, Jets and Mets fans either. Dolan is a world-class asshole, and their fans are a loud, obnoxious presence in arenas and fields across the country. When they win a single playoff game they act like they should shut the city down. They constantly talk shit and don’t back it up. The 1986 Mets and the 1990’s Knicks were hardly a bunch of refined gentlemen.
Raven, Russ is indeed a special kind of failure. He is the opposite of Derrick Rose. Russ retained most of his athleticism and never adapted his game. Rose lost most of his, and became a superb below-the-rim player. It’s all between the ears.
“the new Yankee Stadium being such a bandbox”
Just as a heads up, this is a myth top-to-bottom. The new Yankee stadium ranks 21st over the past 3 seasons in Statcast’s park factor statistic. Its specific figure is 99, so very slightly below average in terms of offense added.
Even with regards to home runs specifically, it’s totally unremarkable. 8th in Statcast’s home runs added statistic, 12th in 2021, 10th in 2020.
You know, the Yankee issues are first-world problems indeed, but they’re in the same boat as the Lakers – they’re held to a different standard due to their blueblood pedigree. Maybe we need to hold a spoiled brat protest the way Laker fans did after LeBron’s 1st year in purple n gold (btw I’m almost certain half of those protesters, including the young man who cried about his dad or whomever having Kobe and Magic win, had agents lol).
Feels like Hal is fine with using the mystique of the Yankees as a cash cow of sorts. I just wish he’d realize that that’s not how the Yankees got to be the damn Yankees.
Also btw I never cared for the facial hair policy either, Z–man.
The Lakers deserve what they are getting for some of the trades they made. If they were smart they’d trade both James and Davis and start over. But they won’t. GM James will probably force them to trade away their only good assets for some washed up has been. It’s interesting that you can have a reasonable debate about whether Jordan or James is the best player ever and also who is worse at team building.
TNFH, you can find noisy stats to make whatever point you want, but in the vast majority of seasons since 2009, the Yankees have hit more home runs at home than away. Left and center fields are definitely legit but right field is a total joke.
There are, and always have been, lots of bandboxes around MLB, so between that and Yankee Stadium’s left and center field dimensions, it’s not surprising that it ranks only 9th on the HR-friendly list. Still, that’s a pretty high number, and it emphasizes how lopsided right field is relative to center and left. And when you combine a team full of sluggers with a HR-friendly park, and then go out of your way to defend the dimensions, you give haters more ammunition, deservedly or not.
Here’s an interesting look at some issues with the right field dimensions:
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-yankee-stadium-effect/
More generally, I think that the proliferation of HR-friendly parks in an era when players are bigger, stronger, and using more tricked-up bats have hurt the game, especialy when combined with how pitching has evolved. It exacerbates the HR or bust approach that many hitters have, which leads to hitters pulling the ball no matter what, which leads to the dramatic shifts in the infield. Fewer base hits and more strikeouts doesn’t seem great for the game to me.
Neither Shea Stadium nor Citi Field are/were hitter-friendly parks (the original dimensions of Citi Field were ridiculous, the Great Wall of Flushing might have been partially responsible for shortening David Wright’s career!
Trade AD. Go after Middleton & Kyrie this offseason. Maybe Myles Turner could fit too?
Christian Wood, Harrison Barnes, either Bogdanovic, Seth Curry…
Or do the hilarious thing and bring in Kyrie & Love
The thing about the Yankees is that they could have done better in that timespan. Historically they are literally the gold standard for sports excellence. And because of this, they have advantages over other organizations. They can (and do) attract players that want to be a part of that history. It’s pretty much like the Lakers + Celtics, every era they can attract and acquire players who want to join in that legacy. As long as ownership understands that advantage and are willing to “go all in” at times, they can cash in and win championships.
And there’s the Yankees problem. They’re fine with using that advantage to merely be good. And as a Knicks and Jets fan, that seems like heaven. But it’s not — because they have the potential to be more. They could have easily gotten Harper and Machado, and blown the rest of the league out of the water for 2-3 years. Then torch the roster when the team starts to fall apart or when the luxury tax is too much.
But Hal Jr. seems fine with just being good. And as a Yankees fan, I have a different set of expectations. So a near championship team is a joyous occasion for my Jets or Knicks. But it’s a bitter disappointment for a Yankees fan. And eventually that competitive edge can wear off (see: Cowboys, Dallas)
I think the Yankees’ issue is not wanting to be just good…it’s going all in on the wrong types of players. They seem to load up their roster with streaky free swingers who have giant strike zones. They go all in on the Stantons and pass on Freemans.
What’s ironic is that their most prolonged period of success was with a team who could both hit HRs and scratch out hits when necessary, where Jeter was the heart and soul rather than A-Rod. Seems like the Astros are all-in on the late 1990s model of the Yankees. They don’t have HR hitters per se, they have good hitters who are HR threats.
I mean, sometimes well-constructed teams like the Dodgers and Braves just get cold at the wrong time and get outplayed by a hot team. That wasn’t the case with the Yanks and Mets, seems more like their flaws were exposed by teams with less flaws.
that sounds exactly right…
You’re probably right. I’d just like to see him go about it less foolishly. 80% of Cashman’s work is outstanding. But the 20% that is dumb, you can see it coming a mile away (like Boone, Donaldson, all the pitchers he’s ever traded for). But he just keeps doing it!! To me, nothing sums up his arrogance more than letting Javy Vazquez ruin our chances twice.
“TNFH, you can find noisy stats to make whatever point you want, but in the vast majority of seasons since 2009, the Yankees have hit more home runs at home than away.”
You’re going to have to do a lot better than that if you want to dispute a decade plus of statcast data. I mean, the statcast data indicates it is indeed an above average, though again not all that remarkable, home run environment. But it’s been about an average run environment overall.
There’s more to a park’s offensive profile than its conduciveness to home runs. Yankee Stadium is deeper than the average park in other areas (i.e. center, “death valley” in left-center) and it comes out to being run-neutral.
‘Russ is indeed a special kind of failure. He is the opposite of Derrick Rose. Russ retained most of his athleticism and never adapted his game. Rose lost most of his, and became a superb below-the-rim player. It’s all between the ears.
that sounds exactly right…’
Totally agree. What’s gobsmacking is that Russell Westbrook must have shot thousands upon thousands of jump shots in practice every year, year after year, for 15 years in the NBA, two years at UCLA, and 4 years of high school.
I realize he didn’t ‘need’ a jump shot when his violent athleticism made him a superstar. It just seems you would naturally get better at something when doing it over and over and over again every day, even if you’re not paying much attention to it.
The Yankees had an 11.5 WAR player in their lineup, and he skews their stats so heavily that you can lose sight of how many mediocre players were on the team.
The second highest ranking Yankee after Judge in WAR was Jose Trevino, whose value came heavily from his glove, as he was one of the most valuable defensive players in the majors last year. DJ LeMahieu is next, followed by Gleyber Torres. Those guys are decent hitters but don’t strike terror in your heart.
Judge was so good that the Yankees still managed to rank 2nd in the AL in runs scored.
100% agree. And that’s the institutional rot of the Yankees. They make this mistake every single year. That and the small market pitcher with nice peripherals that Cashman gets infatuated with. They make that one a lot too. It’s like every year he’s trying to prove that it’s randomness by building the same exact team.
I personally am not a “championship or bust” Yankees fan. All I want is for them to stop doing the things everyone knows won’t work. I find it insulting when they bring Boone back and expect us to think it will be different this time. Or all the years they shoved Gary Sanchez down our throat when we all knew he was going to hit .205, strike out a ton, and let a million passed balls go by.
Just try to get better. I’m not saying spend money. Bring up kids. I don’t care. Just try.
Given his injury history, regression in his jump shooting, contract, etc, what do you think the Lakers could get in an AD trade? Definitely not what they gave up to NOLA to get him. Would it be less than the Spida package? Certainly more than the KP-to-Dallas package, right?
Athletic on Brunson
https://theathletic.com/3722641/2022/10/24/jalen-brunson-knicks/
Enjoying having him aboard and he will likely be the reason I regret my preseason prediction, if that ends up happening.
It’s hard to argue against him being the kind of guy who could make the Knicks more than the sum of their parts, even if I don’t generally believe in that kind of alchemy
I love Obi Toppin and for that reason I am doing everything I can to ignore Tyrese Haliburton’s start to the season…but sheesh.
Want Leon to trade for AD, Alan? It’s hard to say what the Lakers could get for him, are we assuming they’re still trying to win, or would that be the first move towards a full rebuild? If it’s the latter i think they would ask for a good young player and maybe 2 unprotected picks.
I’d be terrified to trade for AD in his current state of health and play, Cyber. I was just responding to Early Bird’s suggestion that the Lakers should trade him now so they can sign both Kyrie and Middleton next season.
I’m pretty AD skeptical personally, but I think he still carries enough of a luster of superstardom that they could get a haul for him. If he’d been on the block this offseason I think Minny probably would’ve prioritized him over Gobert for example, and obviously Minny got a massive haul there. Part of the problem for the Lakers though is they’re still out so many of their draft assets that “just trade Lebron and AD and rebuild” isn’t very appealing.
Now AVT, their best OL, is out for the rest of the season for the Jets. Just horrible luck with injuries at OT.
That’s why its so hard to evaluate Zach Wilson. As I said yesterday, I’m not optimistic about him at all, but he’s facing totally unblocked pass rushers on far too many plays and running for his life.
Tonight’s Knicks game is a bit scary. You’d think an 0-3 team might be due for a good game, but in Brunson We Trust.
I am excited 10 games in for some advanced stat evaluation telling me that Tyrese gives it all back on defense and then some. Like Kevin Martin, who I always think about when I watch him.
That’s not because I love Obi, though I do, but just because it’s too distressing to think about the Knicks passing on a guy who would obviously be perfect for them.
Yes, small sample, but Hali has been all-star level thus far. At least Duarte has been shit and so has Hield. But you know who has been good? Fournier! Grab him before it’s too late, Lakers!
It’s also cool how the Knick leader in shot attempts thus far has a team-worst ts% of .397 — that’s a smart signing right there.
Just wandered over to see Knicks counting stats after two games and noticed that Cam is only a half point behind RJ in ppg at 14.5 vs. 14 even though Cam has averaged 9 minutes less. 4.5 rebs vs. 3.5, which okay, and then the assists.
3.5 vs. 0.0.
You do you, Cam…
Idk what the Lakers can get for AD, but I’m very out on him ever being healthy again. I’d move him for literally anything before he gets hurt again.
AD has 2 more years on his deal after this one, if they want to win with Lebron he shouldn’t be there.
Grab some expirings & picks to free up cap space?
Also Obi’s hitting 40% of his three-pointers.
Haters gonna hate.
(I love me some small sample size…)
Edit — if I’m reading this right, RJ is 0-9 from three so far. That’s probably not helping…
It would be hard for me to say no to a trade for Anthony Davis. Especially if it would be an exchange for Randle and a couple of pics, and maybe one other young player. I know he has been hurt quite a bit, but he’s still relatively young and one of the best players in the NBA when healthy. Even with a sore back, he put up ridiculous stats the other night.
People have accused me of being a shill for Leon Rose, but I felt that passing on Haliburton to draft Obi Toppin was a massive blunder, probably the biggest one Leon has made to date. Nearly everyone here was unanimous and thinking that Haliburton was the best pick at that spot. That’s what incinerating a chunk of the value of a lottery pick really looks like.
Obi still has a legit shot to close the gap somewhat, and he’s far better than Frank or Knox were, but there’s really no sugarcoating that unforced error. In my view, that is 10 times worse than trading out of a 19th pick.
I know the minutes distribution has been great so far but, beyond the obvious reasons to not trade for Anthony Davis, I wouldn’t trust Thibodeau to not grind him into dust.
It will never not be amazing that we passed on Haliburton and then 3 more teams did as well.
On the bright side of the small samples, at least he is 7 of 8 on FTs for .875
I’m looking at this Hornets team and it should be a laugher but some part of me is afeared. DJS is trying to pull a Mickey Rourke in Sin City, Kelly Oubre’s hair is on fire in a good way, the corpse of Gordon Hayward is raising from the dead like the widow of Zarephath’s son, somehow there’s still a Plumlee of one sort or another, and some guy with a name from a random bad ’70s sitcom was 9-9 with 11 rebounds in their last game.
Plus they absolutely thrashed the Hawks.
“What’s ironic is that their most prolonged period of success was with a team who could both hit HRs and scratch out hits when necessary, where Jeter was the heart and soul rather than A-Rod. Seems like the Astros are all-in on the late 1990s model of the Yankees. They don’t have HR hitters per se, they have good hitters who are HR threats.”
That’s what I was saying the other day.
Obviously, the team that can hit more homeruns has an advantage. But hitting homeruns tends to be streaky. So even if you have the best team over a season of 162 games and even if homeruns are an important part of winning the World Series, there’s a significant risk the best teams will go cold or get shut down by excellent pitching over a short series and get knocked out by an inferior team if they are too dependent on them. I want homeruns. I just don’t want to be too dependent on them. I’d sacrifice a bit of homerun power for some balance.
“It will never not be amazing that we passed on Haliburton and then 3 more teams did as well.”
I believe the common thinking was that he was a good passer but not a highly athletic modern penetrating, scoring, P&R PG. I’m not sure what the thinking was on his defense.
In other words, he looked like the kind of PG that would fit perfectly for a team coached by Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, or Gregg Popovich, but not for most teams.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34871315/adam-silver-says-nba-changes-greatly-reduced-incentives-tanking
Admittedly only a casual Yankees observer, but I feel like a lot of discourse on their season underrates losing King from the bullpen and Benintendi and LeMahieu on offence.
On the Knicks front, this one feels like one of those danger games. Plucky young Magic team looking to play well at MSG similar to what we saw about this time last season.
Quentin Grimes absolutely cooked Haliburton twice last season. I like Grimes’s penetration upside but he didn’t exactly go at guys last year.
I don’t have anything else to go on, but I’m standing by the claim that Hali is a bad defender until proven otherwise.
PG is so damn valuable it might not matter though.