2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Future Knick Donovan Mitchell’s Team

The Knicks host the Utah Jazz on Sunday at the Garden for a must-lose game. I assume Thibs will win this won with a 7-man rotation and the quest for the 10th seed will continue!

Let’s go!

91 replies on “2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Future Knick Donovan Mitchell’s Team”

First time watching Banchero. What’s the consensus here? His efficiency wasn’t great this year but he FT% is fine and everything else looks great. Tremendous mobility and size. Good passer. I realize he won’t be there when we are picking but I’m impressed. He’s a beast too. 6’10” 255

I assume Thibs will win this one with a 7-man rotation

Hahaha, probably. That, or Taj in the rotation again. 😛

cgreene: First time watching Banchero. What’s the consensus here? His efficiency wasn’t great this year but he FT% is fine and everything else looks great. Tremendous mobility and size. Good passer. I realize he won’t be there when we are picking but I’m impressed. He’s a beast too. 6’10” 255

I’m more into Ivey, but our pick and Randle for Banchero would be a huge upgrade for us. And all the lineup except PG would be on the same timeline (Grimes/Quick, RJ/Cam, Banchero/Obi, Mitch/Sims). That’s the kind of bold moves i’d like the FO to make.

Leon doesn’t strike me as bold. He can’t even talk to the media.

One of my biggest problems with Rose is that he isn’t bold and this team needed a good and bold GM. You think Masai, Arturus, Tim Connelly, Jerry West or Pat Riley gives a shit what the media thinks about their moves? It didn’t even need to be a teardown rebuild, but something other than “Just don’t do anything bold so that the media can’t judge you by it.” Granted, Isiah and Jax were bold and morons, but the answer isn’t to avoid bold moves! Just get a smart person who is also bold!

In Nerlens Noel hurt, or just not playing? (Wasn’t he cleared to return weeks ago?)

cybersoze: Hahaha, probably. That, or Taj in the rotation again. 😛

I did a little work last night looking at lineup data, on/off data, and some other metrics. I suspect his overall veteran experience makes up for his age and other limitations on defense and adds some hidden value. I’m not making the case to play him,. I just think I get why Thibs loves him so much.

Noel has plantar fasciitis and there are rumors,
not confirmed by the Knicks, that he’ll be out for the rest of the season, but who knows…

Brian Cronin: One of my biggest problems with Rose is that he isn’t bold and this team needed a good and bold GM. You think Masai, Arturus, Tim Connelly, Jerry West or Pat Riley gives a shit what the media thinks about their moves? It didn’t even need to be a teardown rebuild, but something other than “Just don’t do anything bold so that the media can’t judge you by it.” Granted, Isiah and Jax were bold and morons, but the answer isn’t to avoid bold moves! Just get a smart person who is also bold!

Couldn’t agree more. He’s absolutely afraid to make a mistake. And last year made them think they had more than they do. I expect them to play it safe again this off season and tinker around the edges under the guise of “it was a down year”

And ps I don’t think Thibs is the main problem. Take away the security blankets and he will play the best young players.

I have a dirty little secret — I know who can shut down Donovan Mitchell…

#FreetheDeuce

So I want the Knicks to lose, but I want the kids to play well and I also want Randle and Fournier to play well to make them more attractive trade targets.

I’m so confused

Donnie Walsh: I am with you, in general, that the order of operations for building a contender from nothing should be drafts > trades > free agents, and that interrupting the sequence will probably make the rebuild fruitless. But at the same time, I’m just not as bullish on the youth on the Knicks roster right now. The only one who projects to have a championship level ceiling is RJ Barrett, and though there’s some reasonable hope that he reaches that level, there’s a lot of developing guys in the league I’d rather go all-in on. I mean, even relatively unsung guys like Franz Wagner, Saddiq Bey, Desmond Bane, and Isaac Okoro project to be better than Barrett at this point, no? So, given that, I would be less worried about what Rose throws in for a trade for a superstar, especially since I already know the Knicks aren’t winning a championship regardless of what moves they make. At this point it’s just giving fans good players to watch for 82 regular season games and maybe 5 to 13 playoff games.

All fair points. I guess I want to see the Knicks at least try to build a team in a normal, smart way before I go full nihilist.

Looks like Fournier is going break that Starks record pretty easy if he keeps this up

KB Apprentice:
E4 wants us to love him and to stop finding trades for him 😉

Fournier seems to be playing better now that he doesn’t need that black tape on his shoulder.

thenoblefacehumper: All fair points. I guess I want to see the Knicks at least try to build a team in a normal, smart way before I go full nihilist.

The main thing we need around here is more patience with development.

Not every high lottery player a team drafts is going to be franchise changing top 5-10 player in the NBA quickly. Teams are more likely to get some very good but not great players (like KP and RJ) that take years to develop into solid options and have pay them before they know exactly what they have.

We can’t keep trading players like that for picks and resetting back to zero every time we don’t get a superstar.

We are going to have to take a gamble on RJ’s development over next 3-4 years and pay him or bundle him with picks to get a more established star (and possibly not even a top 5 player). Then we go from there.

Deeefense!!: We can’t keep trading players like that for picks and resetting back to zero every time we don’t get a superstar.

We’ve made one such trade and everyone else on the planet acknowledges it as one of our better moves of the past 10 years or so. Let it go.

Max: The Pels just beat the Hawks in Atlanta.

We’ll have chances to be the 10th seed until the last game of the season, won’t we?

We are just not equipped to beat this team with Mitch and Randle clogging the lanes

We’re shooting 61% from 3 and losing by 8

I don’t think we have to worry about accidentally winning this one

cybersoze: We’ll have chances to be the 10th seed until the last game of the season, won’t we?

The next two games will say a lot about it…

Trying to build around Randle is like building a castle in the sand very close to the waves…

Max: Trying to build around Randle is like building a castle in the sand very close to the waves…

And on a day with a forecast predicting a storm

I am really not worried about us trading Randle and him blowing up on another team.

Hopefully some GM will go with the “he needs a change of scenery” theory and give us something for Randle

RJ needs to make a phone call to George Gervin about how to use the glass on bank shots…

This is the point in the game where I always feel IQ should be able to drop ten points easy.

Watching RJ get his shot blocked so often is getting old. I wonder what his TS% would be if he just lowered that stat to around league average for a wing.

Some Deuce minutes looking good. The kids are playing much better than the starters. Obi isn’t a good defender but his athleticism & motor make a huge difference on rotations. Sims can slow the ballhandler and recover because Obi gets to the rollman so well

They’re young, they’re raw, they make mistakes,
but the energy and effort they bring to the game is like night and day…

Quicks ability to have every defender aware of him when hes on is Steph esque

IQ may be the franchise savior. All due respect to RJ but he doesn’t take over games the way IQ can.

MaxThey’re young, they’re raw, they make mistakes,
but the energy and effort they bring to the game is like night and day…

Totally. And with Randle off the floor, there’s no need to defer, so the kids all share the ball. By next year IQ will have earned the right to look off Randle, which may be the ticket to his big jump. When IQ wants to score, he should be able to just pour in 15 at will.

It’s cool, though, Julius is back. How many TOs to close out the game?

EDIT: There’s one.

Breen, “The Knicks had cut it to four, but the Jazz back up by ten.”

Maybe Thibs has bought in on the tank by now.

Gobert playing the good sport. Julius trying to make every single person in the NBA hate him. Good times….

cybersoze:
With 1:49 and down 16, Thibs calls timeout and keeps the starters in?? :O

This is why we’re going to keep him… 🙂

how could any GM worth their salt believe Fournier and Randle are long term solutions….

Missed most of this one because my Miami Hurricanes are putting on a way better show. Box score looks like more of the same.

Guess it takes Randle having an utterly Starksian night to get Obi up to a robust 13 minutes. Nice of Thibs to give McBride 3, even if it was hard to explain to Alec Burks why this relegated him to a mere 34.

Not to knock Robinson, but his was the kind of game that shows you his limitations. Granted Gobert is a top defender, but he kept him off the boards and that effectively shut him down because he can’t do much on offense other than get put backs and lobs. You are only going to get so many of those on some nights.

thenoblefacehumper: Nice of Thibs to give McBride 3, even if it was hard to explain to Alec Burks why this relegated him to a mere 34.

Deuce +6 in 3 min; all the rest of the team in minus in, well, all the rest of the minutes 😉

Psycho took out IQ and Obi (for Fournier and Randle) when we were down-5 and crawling back.

Meritocracy! You need to EARN your minutes!

He’s the perfect sidekick clown to his fake tough guy Point forward…

Deeefense!!:
Not to knock Robinson, but his was the kind of game that shows you his limitations.Granted Gobert is a top defender, but he kept him off the boards and that effectively shut him down because he can’t do much on offense other than get put backs and lobs.You are only going to get so many of those on some nights.

Didn’t Mitch have a great game against Gobert (last year?). I tuned in hoping to see more, but — Not so much.

I’m starting to suspect Randle has some mental health or other issues we don’t know about. He’s too much of a clown at his age to think otherwise.

KB Apprentice: Didn’t Mitch have a great game against Gobert (last year?). I tuned in hoping to see more, but — Not so much.

He may have. You can’t make too much of a single game either way, but he has enough of these games to at least note that he gets shut down more frequently than we’d like. That kind of thing will happen more often against tough matchups, especially in the playoffs. He has to add “something” eventually unless he can become a super elite defender.

Twisting the knife: — “In turn, Mitchell, the Westchester product and Leon Rose’s former client at CAA, pounded the Knicks with 36 points, making 7 of 12 3-pointers and throwing down a vicious lefty jam with 5:50 left and the Knicks rallying.”

But that wingspan …

Thibs playing RJ nearly 40 minutes a game since coming back from Ankle injury

KB Apprentice: Didn’t Mitch have a great game against Gobert (last year?). I tuned in hoping to see more, but — Not so much.

Yeah, the 1st game Mitch played really well. The 2nd time Gobert absolutely destroyed Mitch with 18pts & 19rebs.

pepper: Berman smelling blood in the water….

In a league full of millionaire kids, we may have the single most immature person in the league on the team.

Thibs playing RJ nearly 40 minutes a game since coming back from Ankle injury

that’s an issue…that would be a big red flag if i viewed the players on the roster as valuable assets – particularly in meaningless outcomes…sure, trying to help RJ reach 20 points a game for the season, but, dang, someone’s got to be the adult, if there’s some other reason to have him out there that long, that’s terrible coaching too…reckless…

i tuned in with like 8 minutes to play…whatever positive stuff was going on prior to that time, went to shit about the time quik missed those 2 free throws, and then we missed a whole bunch of shots, turned the ball over, just absolutely fell apart…

i must have been busy when julius had some issue with rudy…wow, julius has definitely shown his ass a bunch since the beginning of the atlanta series…

my faith in him is almost back to where it was the first season he was here…

the big concern now isn’t really even basketball related, one of our supposed team leaders is emotionally unreliable…actually that’s not true, his behavior is predictable, but not in a positive manner…

geo: i must have been busy when julius had some issue with rudy…

Basically Julius completely embarrassed himself with shitty play throughout the game, especially there at the close, with Gobert treating him like a lost puppy much of the time. He smacked Gobert in the jaw with an elbow late in the game, I’m sure there were words exchanged from there on out. But Randle did a fantastic job single-handedly losing the game at the end (okay, he had some help), so he had to take all the boos directed at him out on someone.

Because he’s five.

OMG BEN MATHURIN JUST BROUGHT THE HOUSE DOWN pic.twitter.com/e3bUzotPgw— CBS Sports (@CBSSports) March 21, 2022

Apropros of a reasonably good night for the tank, I definitely wouldn’t mind drafting a dude who can do this. Mathurin would be a good fit for a number of more serious reasons IMO, but also just from a god damn aesthetic point of view it would be nice to have more athletic dudes. Watching these guys can be a real slog sometimes.

You know why I love plus-minus so much? Poku plays 32 minutes in a game they lose, goes 3-20 including 1-10 from three, and is a plus 17.

I do love those kinds of statlines.

That’s a hell of a dunk

Gobert is the best interior defender the NBA has seen in a long time. But you do wish Motch would show up in a game like this so we can have a more graceful loss.

The tank rolls on

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