2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Thunder, AKA “Soon to be Six Under. Don’t Call It a Comeback!”

The Knicks host the OKC Thunder on Valentine’s Day night for a meaningless win that will push their pursuit of the play-in game at all costs.

Oh boy!

Let’s go give our Valentine a kiss or hug or whatever!

224 replies on “2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Thunder, AKA “Soon to be Six Under. Don’t Call It a Comeback!””

Just ate country potatoes with blue cheese sauce and churros with caramel sauce
I’m ready to embrace any path the team is willing to take!

Mitch really clogs the floor on offense and allows constant doubling on Randle due to his lack of skills. A sign and trade could be the way to go.

If It’s Mitch or Randle I’m choosing Mitch.

Wally: Julius’s “decision making was phenomenal” on the west coast trip.

Sure thing, Wally.

I dont really care to make things easier for Julius but clearing the lane for RJ makes more sense

cybersoze:
Max, you don’t believe in Randle, our tank commander? 😀

Not even Randle can succeed in the enterprise tonight.
And btw why did they snub him for the ASG? Look at those numbers! 😉

If kid 6 were barreling down on me I would not feel what Wally is feeling. But good for him.

Good to see Mitch not wearing a boot. He may need one and Thibs said no, but it’s good to see him without it anyways.

A depressing but true thing is Josh Giddey, who I like a lot but is kind of an afterthought in discussions of young NBA talent generally, would probably be our best young player

Evan!!!!

Shooters shoot.

I thought Giddey would bust. He looks pretty good though. Two triple doubles this year already.

I wish Mitch had finished that dunk

Not a great start, but I’m confident our win now team can come back at home against this group of teenagers

Great pass by Randle after a dehumanizing block by Mitch.

Grimes is comically hesitant on offense. He had a clear lane and passed out on the play before.

Owen:
Great pass by Randle after a dehumanizing block by Mitch.

Grimes is comically hesitant on offense. He had a clear lane and passed out on the play before.

I think he needs practices against non-Mitch centers

Mitch stole the ball and went all the way to the rack for a huge dunk

A lot of people have a hard on for Kenrich on twitter I have noticed…

“That’s what stars do, they can bail you out of tough situations”
Wally, Wally… that might be right, but not for Randle, have you been paying attention to this season?

Max:
My personal fave glue guy Kenrich Williams with 6 quick points.

When your name is Kenrich and you can rock the Robert Reid Throwback hairdo, you’re good with me.

Let’s petition the League: a win by less than 30 points over OKC without SGA and Dort must count as a loss in the standings.

We can still win this!

We can still lose this!

It’s great that it doesn’t really matter. But regardless, it’s actually a quite entertaining game… at least from a one-play-to-the-next way…

Grimes looks great. Not sure it showing in his numbers but I love the way he plays. That strip of Giddey. A few great boards in traffic. He threw a pass to Mitch that looked excellent but ended a turnover.

I predict his sophomore year will be special

Did not love the Grimes shot after the steal. He can hit it but he didn’t stay balanced on the attempt.

Grimes quick and high release is gonna be a lethal weapon for years to come. Not your average 3&D guy there is a lot more potential there

I think Grimes will make Fournier expendable, so in the offseason we can trade Fournier and get back an asset.

Grimes is looking like a legitimately great pick. That dude would get minutes on all 30 teams already.

I think RJ is probably better as a 2 guard but him and Grimes as our main 2-3 for the next few years would be really fun.

Max:
I didn’t know him well at draft time, but I’m very impressed by Giddey…

He shot up draft boards in the weeks before the draft…

Giddey is something else. The efficiency isn’t there as a rookie but who cares? He’s got everything he needs to be a terror for a while.

My wife chimed in from out of nowhere with her second NBA comment of the year noting that Josh Giddey looks like Timothee Chalamet

Either IQ had the same empty arena boost that Randle did or maybe the 3pt variance around the whole league is affecting him especially hard

Owen I did a search for Giddey Chalamet on twitter 10 minutes ago and apparently a bunch of people call him NBA Chalamet

Owen:
My wife chimed in from out of nowhere with her second NBA comment of the year noting that Josh Giddey looks like Timothee Chalamet

He looks like something out of The Breakfast Club…

My wife is very proud now but nothing will ever top her coining Mr Pringles as a nickname for D’Antoni and then having Mike K make that his avatar….

The Baghdad Bob routine has to be explicitly written into Wally’s contract right? I mean we’re struggling to put an SGA-less OKC away at home and he’s talking about the 10th seed.

Owen:
People don’t know this but Dua Lipa wrote Levitating about Obi….

Or did she write it about Fournier on that last bound 😉

RJ is the Knick I trust the most with the ball in his hands down the stretch and that’s not exactly a compliment.

KJG:
Saw Randles TO count go from 4 to 5 on gamecast prior to TV feed… it all made sense…

Good news is the Knicks now game plan for 2 Randle turnovers per 4th and one wasted timeout, so it’s all under control.

I’m obsessed with Giddey. I get Alec Burks isn’t the hardest guy to cover but he defended that perfectly.

I’ve never EVER seen a team take so many bad shots when it’s imperative to take good ones

Man Mitch got a good move put on him … and Randle decided he had to take a fadeaway 19 footer

So, yeah, Darius Bazley.

Mitch, I think you have to lock him down if you want Jarretts deal….

Or foul him since it looked like he shoots free throws worse than you

Sure, why not go to OT and waste everyone a little more against one of the league’s shittiest teams?! So, Knicksey!

Bing Bong Hits:
Sure, why not go to OT and waste everyone a little more against one of the league’s shittiest teams?!So, Knicksey!

It’s our time they waste too

Live line after 1 was like Knicks -9.5… should have known how easy a bet that was …

Randles 6th TO… can he eek out 4 more …

KJG:
Man Mitch got a good move put on him … and Randle decided he had to take a fadeaway 19 footer

Well, when you have two lights out shooters on the floor with you, sometimes you just gotta put the team on your shoulder.

Randle is celebrating Linsanity to the T, turnovers and all …

And Mitch needed extra time tonight to go into limp-mode

Wait. Last shot to tie, but Randle fouled out. What can we possibly do?

Gotta go with the cold hand. Boots is indeed the stealth tank commander. Good on him.

I could use some Wally’s drugs to feel phenomenal outstanding!

i think i heard it’s called rebecca…

i can see why wally is such a happy guy…

So we designed a play for the player that was 0-6 in the game?

Do Thibs convert o tanking? 🙂

I’m at work and can’t watch the game, but from the box score it just seems like we can’t defend anymore. The Thunder are shooting 50% overall and 38% on threes. And this is the Thunder, not the Warriors. I don’t agree with Strat that having Bullock instead of Fournier and a more defensive minded point guard than Walker would give us a team as good as last seasons, but there is definitely something to be said for giving Thibs defensive minded players.

Giddy is that guy you’re confident you can hustle and then his hair movement alone out-hustles you …

Max:
So we designed a play for the player that was 0-6 in the game?

Hey, that’s the best after-timeout play we’ve run since Thibs got here.

Max:
So we designed a play for the player that was 0-6 in the game?

Do Thibs convert o tanking? 🙂

Thibs follows the science… or the law of averages… one of those

Well, when we luck into a high draft pick we will remember this loss fondly. They were 10.5 point favorites.

vincoug: Hey, that’s the best after-timeout play we’ve run since Thibs got here.

So it’s Process AND result, great play and a good loss.

Well done Thibs!

They lost to a bunch of high schoolers most of whom haven’t even grown a beard yet. What a humiliation! Wow!

Brutal bricked FTs there.

Finally got to watch a part of a game!

Too bad Grimes didn’t get to take that 3 – normally I wouldn’t say that w/Quickley on the floor but he’s been cold this season.

I think tonight plus the Portland loss formally sticks a fork in this team. I know some of yall have said the team was toast before tonight, but yeah its definitely a wrap for them. No way that even a decent team blows this game.

The Burks/Randle/Fournier 3-man game late in the fourth looked a bit unimaginative. JK47, we spoke that the Knicks don’t have anyone to tilt the opponents’ D and you said they can be defended 1-on-1. Randle was able to get in the paint, but instead of going up strong or str8 up for a paint jumper, he passes out erroneously.

Julius… NYC is NOT the place to put up good counting #s but show deficiencies/come up short in the clutch.

On the plus side, both Portland and New Orleans won tonight so this loss moves us 1.5 games back of the 8th spot in the lottery which would boost our odds of getting a top 4 pick from 13% to 23%.

Knick fan not in NJ:
I’m at work and can’t watch the game, but from the box score it just seems like we can’t defend anymore.The Thunder are shooting 50% overall and 38% on threes. And this is the Thunder, not the Warriors.I don’t agree with Strat that having Bullock instead of Fournier and a more defensive minded point guard than Walker would give us a team as good as last seasons, but there is definitely something to be said for giving Thibs defensive minded players.

Knicks failure of offensive execution late in the fourth is what ultimately sunk them. OKC wasn’t blowing the doors off at that point, but the K’s clogged offense gave the Thunder juuussst enough room.

vincoug: this loss moves us 1.5 games back of the 8th spot in the lottery which would boost our odds of getting a top 4 pick from 13% to 23%.

This.

Sure would like to see Deuce out there…

How in the fuck do they just keep running Burks out there who doesn’t know how to play the point without even trying to give Deuce some burn?

Brian Cronin: How in the fuck do they just keep running Burks out there who doesn’t know how to play the point without even trying to give Deuce some burn?

Boots: “I thought Alec gave us a lot of toughness, tonight. He’s a warrior out there. You know, we’re gonna get our shots if we make our reads and let the game come to us.”

There have been many dubious losses this season, from those two games early on against the Magic to the one three days ago in Portland. But this one against those young kids tonight? Wow! It’s a season low. Ultimate and pure humiliation. Very tough to wrap my mind around this one.

Brian Cronin: How in the fuck do they just keep running Burks out there who doesn’t know how to play the point without even trying to give Deuce some burn?

Obviously, Burks just isn’t trying hard enough. If Thibs yells some more and gives him more minutes I’m sure he’ll figure it out. There’s literally no reason to change anything about how this team is run.

I didn’t get to see this one, but obviously we shouldn’t be going basket for basket with a team as bad as OKC minus SGA.

We need a hard reset on this situation. Thibs has to go. This team is underachieving even relative to its own talent level and this veteran group is not going to be winning anything. We need a coach who is going to play the kids, and who knows how to run a modern NBA offense.

I’d go into next year with Grimes-RJ-Randle at the 2-3-4. We’re obviously going to need a PG and will probably need a C, long term. IQ and Obi both have toilet-level value at the moment and let’s be honest about Cam Reddish, right now the likely outcome for him is journeyman. It’s going to be hard to package that collection of damaged assets for anything we need. It’s probably best to try to bring in a coach who can rehabilitate Obi and IQ as players. They both have talent but are dying on the vine under Thibs.

The problems of this team don’t have easy short-term solutions. But I don’t think there’s any way you can do another season like this with Thibs. He’s not the right coach for this situation. I appreciate what this team did last season, and I have been supportive of him in the past, but it is time to move on.

It just can’t go on like this. It’s one thing if you are playing for the lottery, and another if you are trying your best to win and use what is — in words — an NBA lineup. Won’t be surprised if serious decisions are in the making after such an embarrassing loss tonight. From changes in the lineup, to even the coach being in a hot seat.

Seemed like three big problems. One was, as Z-man said, the ripple effect of Kemba flailing around like small cod on the deck among man-sized sailors all game. All-star smile, fish-out-of-water defense. Then Randle suddenly deciding the Knicks had WAY too many possessions already, and just giving it back to OKC without a shot, over and over. Seven turnovers! And finally, as mentioned above, an incredibly stagnant three-man game at the end.

There were other problems, but it feels those three really sank the team.

Then again, a post-mortem feels almost senseless at this point.

If Doc Rivers could be on the hot seat in Philly, then Thibs sure as fuck shouldn’t have a cold seat here.

At least we’re not the win-now Kings, who got smoked by a Nets team with no Durant, Kyrie, Harden, or Simmons.

The point about firing Thibs would be to finally get the kids some legitimate playing time, instead of playing Obi Toppin 7 minutes in a fucking home game against OKC only to lose anyway.

I would at least give Thibs a chance to play the kids before firing him. Tell him it has to be done, and if he’s not on board it’s time to let him go.

Btw I’m going to take a victory lap on behalf of my man djphan. Everything he said about Immanuel Quickley has turned out to be true. Hopefully it’s just bc Thibs has ruined his confidence and D Rose can help him get it back. But the kid looks lost.

Bruno Almeida: The point about firing Thibs would be to finally get the kids some legitimate playing time, instead of playing Obi Toppin 7 minutes in a fucking home game against OKC only to lose anyway.

Bingo

Let Thibs coach out the string. He’ll help us accidentitank at least. Then next year get a guy who will play the kids.

JK47:
Let Thibs coach out the string. He’ll help us accidentitank at least. Then next year get a guy who will play the kids.

Idk, we’re gonna lose a ton of games based on the remaining schedule whether we play kids or not.

So I’d rather see the kids play and lose, but unfortunately our stubborn ass coach won’t go that route.

One of the reasons the Knicks are disappointing this year is Thibs has played RJ and Quickley a lot of minutes and they suck.

I don’t think we’ll have to worry about getting too many wins giving minutes right now to Deuce, Reddish, Toppin or Sims, they’re not at the level necessary to be net positives even over our horrible vets. But starting this process of evaluation right now gives us an extra 25 games to help evaluate if any of them are even worth investing resources for the next season. Grimes looks like a keeper, IQ, as bad as he’s been, he’s shown a good level before, but we need to see if any of these dudes is going to show something towards becoming a rotational piece or even just have any trade value going forward. The season is dead, and there’s no way we’re ever out tanking the Magic, Pistons and Rockets anyway to get best odds at the top spot. I don’t think we’re even out tanking OKC or the Pacers at this point. The damage has been done by standing pat on the trade deadline and never committing one way or the other. Playing the kids is the only way I see to get some tangible value at least out of those last 25 or so meaningless games

The problem with Thibs is not that he is not playing young players enough. Given the circumstances, I think he does. And the circumstances are that he tries to win (hence, not benching all vets) but loses way more games than he should, and, as of now, has not been able to turn things around. That is the problem. On top of all, team confidence is at all time low right now and this shows at the end of games.

The above having been said, I don’t know if firing Thibs is the right answer. All things that went well last season went the wrong way this season, and that is not necessarily the coach’s fault. From Julius’s play to Noel’s injuries, to incredibly dubious signings and trades. That led to a glaring lack of depth and balance: there is a bunch of wings without a good point guard, no depth in the center position, defense is worse than last year, etc.

Lol this board really shines once things go to shit, like a steely-eyed team of top-trained paramedics.

Thibs is not a problem solver of a coach. He coaches one way, and is not going to deviate from that one way, and worse than that he plays favorites and tolerates all sorts of bullshit play and behavior from his teachers pets. There are certain players who have earned the “veteran” stamp and get long leashes no matter how shitty they play, and there are other players who don’t get an opportunity because they have the “not veteran” stamp, and that’s that.

That’s fine if you’re at a spot on the win curve where it makes sense, but we are not at that spot. And there will never come a day when Thibs gives up his Taj Gibson security blanket and takes the training wheels of Obi Toppin, or gives some meaningful minutes to Miles McBride to see what he can do.

Another problem is that he plays players out of position and destroys their value, notably PG Alec Burks and PG Isaiah Quickley. That was the secret hidden value of Elfrid Payton: you had all the suck contained in one player, and everybody else was at least playing their proper roles. In that very strange way, I do believe that Elf was kind of the linchpin of last year’s team. Yes, he stunk, but at least he stunk in a way that allowed off-ball players to play in off-ball roles. This year that is gone, and since Miles McBride doesn’t have the “veteran” label like Elf, Thibs’ solution is to just go ahead and keep jamming the square pegs into the round holes.

I haven’t even mentioned RJ Barrett’s utterly preventable and also utterly predictable walking boot. Enough already.

I don’t think the damage was done at the trade deadline. I think the damage was done last summer when management (and Knickerblogger, for that matter) thought the team was better than it was and acted on that basis. A contributing factor is also not having our centers for many winnable games and having Rose out for so long too.

All of the above is true to whatever degree, but there are some mitigating factors that go beyond coaching and roster construction alone:
-We have not had a decent C rotation all year. Mitch is formidable when healthy but constantly gimpy (anyone notice that he got burned badly on the game-tying layup in regulation? Can’t really move laterally on sore ankles…) Noel probably needs knee surgery or worse, Taj is skilled but undersized and old.
-We have not had a decent PG rotation all year. Rose has been out since December. Kemba is a massive defensive liability. Burks and IQ are simply not PGs. Deuce isn’t ready, if he’ll ever be.
-Fournier will either win you or lose you games, depending on whether he’s hot or not. His defense is well below average in an increasingly athletic league. Unless he’s on fire he’s a liability in the 4th.
-Julius is a very talented but low-IQ point forward who has massively regressed as a shooter. Thibs offensive schemes require high-IQ play, but when he’s not shooting 40% from 3, Randle is a dumb player…not always but enough to lose close games.
-RJ had a long stretch of horrible play. Just when he’s playing better he gets hurt due to a Thibs decision. But he has been a big part of the losing.
-Obi is totally dependent on a skilled PG running the offense. He hasn’t had one since Rose went down.

It’s valid to criticize the FO and Thibs, they deserve it. That said, not sure another coach makes much of a difference in Ws and Ls given the above circumstances. You’re not winning in this league without any of elite athleticism, rim protection, shooting and PG play. So given that we clearly suck, play the fucking kids already.

Well, Knicks Twitter is fun at times like these too. Where Alan goes to release his GIFs….

JK47: In that very strange way, I do believe that Elf was kind of the linchpin of last year’s team. Yes, he stunk, but at least he stunk in a way that allowed off-ball players to play in off-ball roles. This year that is gone, and since Miles McBride doesn’t have the “veteran” label like Elf, Thibs’ solution is to just go ahead and keep jamming the square pegs into the round holes.

That’s part of if for sure. But if you combine Elf and Bullock, and have Randle, RJ and either Mitch or Nerlens, your team has a defensive identity. Even when you’re missing shots, you can stay in games. Combine that with a legit closer in Rose and you have an ability to score when the offense starts grinding its gears.

Instead, we have a) guys who can’t keep the other team from going on massive 4th quarter runs and have to go basket for basket so if you are cold, leads melt away like butter on a hot frying pan; b) no 2-headed rim protection to give you 12 fouls and neutralize bigs like Nurkic; c) no defensive rebounding to end our opponent’s possessions; d) guys playing roles they aren’t suited for, which gets worse as the pressure rises when opponents go on late runs; All of these things can lay dormant for 3 quarters and then explode in a team’s face, and there isn’t much a coach can do about it. Macri has been saying as much.

So since this team is virtually uncoachable in a winning sense until Rose comes back (too late!) and Noel and Mitch are both healthy (don’t hold your breath) just throw in the towel and play the kids.

They’re 3.5 games out of the 6th spot in the lottery, with a really tough set of games coming up. The Kings are in that spot and are in “win now” mode. Several teams right around that level that can be “passed.”

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything as stupid and stubborn at the association level as Alec Burks, point guard.

Thibodeau is and has been a clear and present danger to the careers of Obi Toppin and Immanuel Quickley.

I started at the end of the 1st, and then fell asleep at the half. Looks like it was for the best. 😛
In the summer, we have a lot of roads to which we can go, but right now just play the kids and especially Deuce. Have a PG on the court at all times, please. If Kemba and DRose are unavailable, play Deuce and Arch (he’s a PG). Play IQ and Burks at their natural position, not PG. Sit Taj once and for all, play Sims. And then let’s evaluate what we have in the young players, and hope for the best in the lottery. I have a feeling this is the year we’ll jump to Top4. Jabari Smith or Jaden Ivey, please.

If we don’t jump to Top4, i have my eyes on JD Davison (Alabama). I think he has great potential. He has been climbing the board, he’s now #21 at ESPN and Kennedy Chandler is down to #28. I think Davison might be available if we pick on our usual spot (8 to 10). Anyone else paying attention to Davison? And on top of his potential, he’s electric, with crazy blocks and putback dunks Ja’s style.

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