If They Required Multi-Year Market Rate Deals to Resign Them, Which Knick Free Agents Would You Bring Back?

The poll results so far demonstrate just how hard it is to handle the building of this squad for next season, really.

Does the definition of Win Curve actually even matter?

People are expressing views on team building strategy. You either agree with what they are saying or you don’t. What you call it is irrelevant.

On this point I actually agree with you, but…

We just did a great job of finding MULTIPLE attractive contracts this year alone. One could argue our mistake was not giving a couple of them more years. They aren’t as rare as you are suggesting.

See, this shows you fundamentally misunderstand the free agency market. There’s a reason we didn’t give them a couple more years: they wouldn’t have accepted them at such low AAVs!

I would like to know your answers to the above questions, because they involve having to actually take a stance on specifics instead of just talking about how you would simply always negotiate team-friendly contracts that you would then parlay into the pieces needed to win a championship.

First, I don’t eschew ANYTHING! You are the one limiting yourself to draft.

1) No I am not, and no one else is either. People make the obvious point that the draft produces a lot more value-added contracts than free agency.

2) You constantly criticize a strategy wherein teams take on bad contracts in exchange for future assets. That means you eschew doing so in favor of free agency. Sometimes that’s the correct choice, due to the existence of value-added contracts in free agency. It’s just meaningless to constantly repeat that we should sign value-added contracts in free agency without identifying specific opportunities because no one on Earth disagrees with such a vague and banal proposition.

I only voted “yes” on Bullock because I’m reasonably confident he’d maintain positive trade value for the duration of the contract. I think there’s room for disagreement on all fronts but Noel’s though (it would be silly to lock ourselves into him due to the widespread availability of bigs).

The whole “simply only signing team-friendly contracts” thing isn’t so easy when you actually have to attach names and numbers huh?

whew, finally moving on…i would bring back win-curve…

” feel like Taj outperformed Noel in the playoffs pretty thoroughly, though I haven’t actually looked at the stats. I just really can’t see giving money to a one way defensive player at a backup position.”

I do think this is important. Capela was able to cheat off of our Cs because they’re all such non-threats on offense. Taj has a few very basic offensive moves and was able to score a bit and Noel had that one game with 12 or so FTs. But it was more a result of the Hawks not caring than either playing good offense.

Another interesting question that has absolutely nothing to do with processes or curves:

1. Would you trade for Ben Simmons?
2. What would you be willing to give up?

1. To me, the answer is a pretty clear yes, unless the cost is prohibitive (young player + multiple firsts). Simmons is still a max level player except when he’s undergoing a world-historical case of the yips like this past playoffs. He needs to do something about his shot, but he’s pretty much otherwise the complete package, and he’s valuable even when the game slows down in the halfcourt–coaches are just unwilling, in my view, to experiment with him in the screener role, or even a point-center kind of role.

2. What I’d be willing to give up: I wouldn’t mind a Randle for Simmons swap straight up, but I can’t imagine the Knicks actually doing that. I imagine his value is somewhere around strong third option level player (e.g., Randle) or a young player plus a first. It doesn’t feel like Obi plus one of our firsts would be close to getting it done though, especially if McCollum is on the table…would something like a sign and trade for Bullock/Burks and a first for Ben get it done?

“Bullock-4 million”

He was going to sign for $10M per year prior to getting injured. That deal wasn’t representative of his value as a player. He was viewed as a really solid 3&D player at his previous stops.

Brian, our “win curve” saviour! 🙂

[edit] Or maybe not, i’m seeing people didn’t let go of the topic. 🙁

I’ll throw out there that part of wanting to re-sign Noel is that I’m worried Mitch might bolt after next year. I love Mitch but it’s hard to tell where his head is at in regards to the Knicks. Who knows what happened, but Mitch cycling through agents and leaving W. Kentucky in the lurch makes me nervous about his commitment to the Knicks.

Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada:
Another interesting question that has absolutely nothing to do with processes or curves:

1. Would you trade for Ben Simmons?
2. What would you be willing to give up?

I can answer both ways to the number 1 question while my answer to the number 2 change but not to much…

First combination:

1. No. I don’t want any non-shooter in my starting lineup (Mitch or “Center X” are enough), especially at 4Yr/140M
2. Nothing because I don’t want him

or I can go:

1. Yes, reluctantly, if the price is really low or Morey give me something (like a first plus Maxey) for the trouble of taking away a problem to him.
2. Close to nothing, let’s say Kevin Knox and a second in 2023.

We’re talking about a player that just ended his 4th playing season (techinically the 5th) and for years blatantly refused to work on his shot despite everyone in the organization begging him to do it.

He sees himself as a point guard and has taken 34 three pointers in 275 games (plus 2 in 34 playoffs games),
with a career FT% of 56,4% (52% in the playoffs).

I’m scared of taking a player like this during his max contract.

Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada: 1. Would you trade for Ben Simmons?
1. To me, the answer is a pretty clear yes (…) He needs to do something about his shot (…) coaches are just unwilling, in my view, to experiment with him in the screener role, or even a point-center kind of role.

I’m assuming you didn’t read the article Alan shared in the previous thread, or have you?

yes on reggie and alec, no on rose and nerlens…

you can’t just make some shit up in your head, call it something it’s not, and then argue like crazy when some other individual isn’t guessing your made up in your head definition…

It’s a simple concept, geo. Just about everybody here groks the concept except the borderline troll who disappears when the team starts winning games. It’s really not complicated, it’s just one poster being willfully obtuse about a concept that has been uncontroversial here for many years.

Well, again, let’s look at our new favorite team, the true NBA title contenders the Phoenix Suns. They have the following dudes under contract, for these numbers:

The extensions are coming and all won’t necessarily be clear. That also doesn’t include all the teams still buried in the lottery that tried the same thing.

More important, more than half the people on this forum used to think Booker was an overhyped mediocrity and a terrible signing when he was given the big bucks. They probably would have traded him for some picks to some sucker (lmao), still be in the lottery, and CP3 would be in NY because he wouldn’t play with Ayton, Bridges, and Johnson.

Hive Mind would have drafted Bridges, and would have drafted Ty Haliburton, both of whom would still be here on cheap ass contracts. We’d be in position to whoop some major ass if Knickerblogger Hive Mind had made those picks. Haliburton-Barrett-Bridges-Randle-Robinson could have very easily been our starting five, and that would have been with 4/5 of the lineup coming through the draft.

I know, Knickerblogger is full of geniuses that never get a draft wrong. Then again, maybe we remember all the ones we got right and forget the ones we got wrong.

well, just to be clear, i would step on e’s toes for you jk 🙂

you know what E – your information train is all jammed, man!!!

oh yeah, almost forgot – and your thought processes are all fucked up…

just kidding E, love ya and i still may need may need a lawyer some day…

Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada: @cyber
I did. I’m still a believer in Ben.

Ok, then you know how the player thinks and acts. I respect your opinion, of course, and maybe you’re right, maybe he can turn this around, maybe this humbled him and he’ll accept things he previously didn’t (like not playing at the PG spot). For me, i’d stay away after reading that the Sixers assigned him a shooting coach for the summer, one that had previous success, and he decided to do something else without them knowing it. If i was the owner of the team and knew about this, my next action would be to call the GM and instruct him to trade Ben for the most assets he could get.

My issue with Burks is he’s never been an efficient scorer and he’s generally been better with the ball in his hands than playing off the ball. Burks is a solid bench scorer, but unless he an figure out a way to up his efficiency he’s never going to warrant paying him much money.

Burks is a usage soaker whose offense is good enough when the Knicks are the #3 defense, but he doesn’t really cut it at the next-level. It’s helpful to have a secondary ballhandler, but longterm that will ideally be IQ’s role.

Deeefense: More important, more than half the people on this forum used to think Booker was an overhyped mediocrity and a terrible signing when he was given the big bucks. They probably would have traded him for some picks to some sucker (lmao), still be in the lottery, and CP3 would be in NY because he wouldn’t play with Ayton, Bridges, and Johnson.

I think this board has historically undersold high-volume players whose youth explains their inefficiency. I believe we’re re-evaluating that position. I don’t think the high-level strategy we’re considering should change as we’re reconsidering that position. It’s a fair and accurate critique, but it requires a change elsewhere and not necessarily the draft strategy

Alan: Assuming he is fully healthy and back to the player he was pre-injury, what kind of contract would you give Dinwiddie? He fulfills the attacking point guard archetype that Thibs loves, but as I understand it, his shooting isn’t the best.

Idk, I haven’t seen enough tape of Dinwiddie, but let’s just assume for the sake of argument that he returns to pre ACL-tear form. That’s a pretty solid drive-and-kick PG who doesn’t help solve your spacing issues and is a defensive sieve. He opted out of his contract at 12.5m or whatever it was, implying to me that he expects he’s going to be at least in the 15-20m AAV range, minimum. Not even counting the ACL tear downside risk, he’s a slightly above league average player in the vein of Derrick Rose. I think if the option space is re-sign Rose at multiyear (2-3) 13m plus some stopgap guard and sign Dinwiddie, I’d rather just re-sign Rose. To me, the only the good big-money PG options this year are: Lowry, CP3 (both depending on terms/years ofc), and Cam Payne. Everyone else just doesn’t present enough of a value, imo (maybe Rose, again depending on AAV years).

geo:
well, just to be clear, i would step on e’s toes for you jk 🙂

you know what E – your information train is all jammed, man!!!

oh yeah, almost forgot – and your thought processes are all fucked up…

just kidding E, love ya and i still may need may need a lawyer some day…

Mind … blown.

I don’t want any of the four on multi-year deals. Road to nowhere. Time for a reboot. If they resigned Noel or Burks at very cut rates, I might be able to stomach a second year.

The reboot starts with trying to buy low on Simmons and building things around him. Chance of occurrence — low. (Probably need to know whether he’s repped by CAA, that would change chance.)

Rose: Yes! Where else are we going to find a pg with a 1.9 bpm, .9 vorp, .565 ts, .411 from 3. We were 24-11 after trading for him for a reason.
Burks: Yes! .9 bpm, .9 vorp, Solid 2 way wing, who can play some pg in a pinch.
Bullock: No, He had a solid year as well, but seems redundant with RJ and Burks. I would like a bigger sf in the starting line up. Even though he got hot from 3, he felt like a liability on offense, who made too many boneheaded plays.
Noel: He had a good year, but backup centers make $5 mil. not 10 and he’s also a liability on offense.

All of this is really contingent on how the draft goes.

Deeefense: More important, more than half the people on this forum used to think Booker was an overhyped mediocrity and a terrible signing when he was given the big bucks.

If you can’t laugh about the fact that the reason they thought that almost certainly had a whole lot to do with the Suns not being “on the right place on the win curve” you have no sense of humor and there are serious questions whether you have a soul.

I don’t like the idea of giving Dinwiddie a big contract coming off a second major knee injury. I think he and his agent made a mistake declining that option.

I don’t like the idea of giving Dinwiddie a big contract coming off a second major knee injury. I think he and his agent made a mistake declining that option.

I don’t see how he could possibly do worse than $12.5 million for one more season. Especially since the Nets will likely be motivated to trading him in a sign and trade for an additional piece.

nice post ghenman, you’re making me seriously reconsider my votes…

We could probably draft Duarte to fill the Bullock role. Replacing Rose would be more difficult so I’d go 2 for 20 for him. Burks 2 for 18. I’d probably let Noel leave and draft one of 3 centers to replace him with, Queta, Bassey or Jackson.

So if the new foul rules actually work and there is less foul shooting, will league average eFG% go down?

Knick fan not in NJ:
So if the new foul rules actually work and there is less foul shooting, will league average eFG% go down?

Theoretically TS% would go down. Free throws aren’t factored into eFG%

I agree Dude. Duarte would be a nice addition to replace Bullock and I think we could keep enough flexibility for one max contract next year. Hopefully that would be LaVine to be our #1 scoring option.

I don’t like Dinwiddie’s game at all, especially coming off acl surgery. Rose on a minutes limit with Vildoza, Quickley, Burks and a first round rookie prospect would be more than enough in my opinion. I also think Thibs will want Rose back. 2 yr for 25 mil. should do it.

dinwiddie isn’t really much of a foul baiter.. i mean to a certain extent everyone does it… but the reason he gets to the line is that he’s pretty aggressive attacking the rack and he’s done that for most of his career..

it is fair to say that a chunk of his value does come at the line.. and coming off an acl it’s possible it tanks…. but i think generally there is more upside than downside… i think there’s room on his 3pt% to improve for a variety of reasons and that his overall handle is so good and so clever that there is still some growth to his dribble drive game…. he really just needs to improve his midrange shooting but we’re not asking him to be a cornerstone offensive player … just be competent offensively and he can be that if he’s healthy…

Rose

10-16ft: 55%
career: 44%

16+ ft: 50%
career: 42%

3pt: 41%
Career: 31%

I want to bring Rose back, but I’d be very hesitant to put much money into a multi-year deal.

Hubert: Basically you have to help our young core on the court for me. Noel & Burks don’t do that.

While I’m not at all sure Noel is worth any real money, he indisputably helped our young core by erasing their many mistakes at the rim. That’s worth something. Don’t know what.

If Mitch comes back totally healthy and able to play 30-35 a game, let Noel walk unless he plays for chump change. But Noel’s one-trick-pony act is worth something.

DudeInKnicksTown:
NBA Draft Lottery Preview:
We will NOT be drafting 8th this time.

LOL! Now the question is: who’s going to be the dumb team that will select out of pure faith (or after a 3 on 3) a projected late first in the Top10?

I voted NO to all.

My sense is that the NBA is getting saturated with talent and there will be bargain contracts galore to be had. None of those guys are bargains at the proposed contracts.

Toronto has a reeeeeally interesting decision to make

fertitta doesn’t deserve mobley

man what did cleveland do to deserve all this lottery luck….

No on all of them. Too much money and years for guys who should be replaceable in FA. Rose on a 2 year for 9-10mil a year wouldn’t be terrible, but I don’t think he signs for that.

I’d be cool with the TNFH plan of giving Dinwiddie a big one-year deal to see what he has in the tank. I don’t love any of the expensive FA’s that are going to be available.

Gonna be a tricky off-season, no doubt.

i do think dinwiddie is a guy who would be worth a multiyear deal.. the age is right… his game fits our system… and the money should make sense…

there just aren’t that many options and out of a bunch of bad ones… i’d probably prefer him over lowry and payne… payne might be a close decision… the only alternative besides that is to sign mcconnell to a big one year deal and punt til next year but the downside to that is trying to convince a FA to come here without a pg…

would i pay over 20mm? absolutely not.. but i think he comes well short of that and that’s enough for it to make sense… dinwiddie is a legitimately solid pg and it’s actually a pretty long track record at this point so if he’s healthy and in shape it would be a great investment….

Wow Ayton got WAY up there

i’d probably prefer him over lowry and payne

prefer him over graham or mcconnell?

ESPN’s first mock draft after the lottery has the Knicks taking Jared Butler at 19 and Sharife Cooper at 21. I’d love it if they get Butler, he’s 11th on Hollinger’s draft board.

Sign Cam Payne

prefer him over graham or mcconnell?

i don’t think these guys are real options… there’s just no real point in giving them a one year deal and i think a multiyear deal for these guys would be a big mistake… and i absolutely adore mcconnell… graham i think is really close to what IQ does already. and overall a bad fit for what thibs wants as a pg…

i think cp3 is the obvious first choice… but i assume he resigns given how far they got… i have some faith that sarver isn’t that dumb to cheap out on him…. then out of everyone else it’s either payne or dinwiddie… i wasn’t sure if he’d opt out but now that he has i think he’s the one…

Rose – Yes
Bullock – No
Burks – Yes
Noel – No.

Of these four, Noel is the only one about whom I feel strongly. Noel is a BAD offensive player because he fails to catch the ball. This was true during the regular season and the playoffs. His strong defense as a weak side helper at the rim is a plus, but he gives some of that back by being an average positional defender on the block.

Gotta give Payne so much credit for being literally out of the league to scoring 23 points through three quarters in the Conference Finals. Wow.

I think I know less about curves after all the curvature of today.

I voted yes for all but Burks. I don’t think 2021/22 is when we make a big splash in the FA market. We may sight one or two players, but I really think we’re going to build with youth. It’s a single point guard, to start. Maybe Quickley or Vildoza that starts? Thing is, we know the three I listed are good players. Rose as your backup PG/6th man is nice. The Mitch/Noel match was an awesome fit. Bullock is what Knox should have been.

It’s probably technically an offensive foul, but what the fuck kind of call was that?

I’ve just never seen anything like that before. They blew a whistle before they called a foul. What in the world?

Big shot by Booker, but wow, they didn’t do a good job of denying him the ball at all.

Booker is going to have nightmares about Patrick Beverley tonight.

Wow. JVG is right. They would never call that regular season.

But maybe its the right call. Seems like horseshit but Beverley might have got that one.

Holy shit, George! Choke city!

PG13 just choked.

I don’t get what Van Gundy is complaining about. Booker touched the ball last before it went out of bounds.

Because you’d never review it for the first 46 minutes of the game and then suddenly it is reviewed for the last two and what would never be called earlier now gets called.

Wow, what a game-winning shot! That’s some terrible defense by the Clippers.

How they going to job the Suns now. God that was awesome

Incredible

Also, I’ve resisted hopping on the anti-replay train but tonight’s use was god awful. Absolutely destroyed the viewing experience down the stretch. I’m not for getting rid of it entirely, but you can’t let whatever this was happen.

OH MY GOD. Shades of David Lee!

David Lee was more amazing because they didn’t even play poor defense on the lob that time. This time, there was some terrible defense.

This is an embarrassment

What a play by Ayton!!! That was amazing!

I mean, I had fun. If Ty Lue had put the right team on the court that would definitely have saved a ton of time.

Would PG’s shot have been good if it went?

Very fun game but the replay shit is awful. Scott Foster must be so mad at Paul George

The Crowder pass was definitely a thing of beauty
https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/1407551694003531776

Owen:
The Crowder pass was definitely a thing of beauty
https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/1407551694003531776

Wow, that angle really puts into perspective what a tough/great pass it was.

I’m usually a pessimist about these FA contracts, but I doubt Rose gets that much unless it’s just for one year. Yes, he had a nice part of a season with the Knicks, but he’s been volatile in terms of production for years and is really old in PG years. I would think if he wants multiple years, he’ll maybe get nontax MLE at near $10m.

The Knicks got several steals in FA this past year. That’s a big part of how they did well. These players are no longer gonna be steals as they all just had good seasons that drove up their value. You want to repeat or improve on last year, go find more steals. Easier said than done. That’s why I attribute last season’s upswing mostly to luck. Even a brilliant and well-connected GM isn’t gonna be able to get that much talent in that budget without a lot of high rolling. FA just isn’t built to provide that kind of value unless you sign a superstar.

But yeah, if you want a chance at repeating this year next year, you can’t re-sign these guys at those numbers.

Also, I would trade Randle for Ben Simmons in a heartbeat. Simmons is a two way player, monster athlete, who needs to improve maybe the most frequently improved skill in the game. Randle is already arguably worse than Simmons and is a lot less athletically gifted.

I’m usually a pessimist about these FA contracts, but I doubt Rose gets that much unless it’s just for one year. Yes, he had a nice part of a season with the Knicks, but he’s been volatile in terms of production for years and is really old in PG years. I would think if he wants multiple years, he’ll maybe get nontax MLE at near $10m.

$13.4 million is how much the Knicks can pay Rose using his Early Bird rights. I find it difficult to believe he’d take less than that from them.

Macri’s newsletter today raises an interesting point: the Cavs are likely to end up drafting either Suggs or Green, which would render one half of SexLand or the other redundant. And since Sexton’s about to get expensive, he’s probably the one they try to trade. I’m reluctant even if the trade cost is modest, because I don’t want to give him that next contract, but if the front office’s analytics can see him taking a leap, I wonder if Brock Aller might be willing to deal with his old team.

djphan: graham i think is really close to what IQ does already. and overall a bad fit for what thibs wants as a pg…

DJ, i usually don’t disagree with you, and you might be right about the 2nd part (bad fit), to which we can add him being a RFA (so he won’t be a bargain or the Hornets will match), but the 1st part i don’t agree at all.
One has a career 7.0 AST/36 with no season below 6.4 AST/36, and the other has 3.7 AST/36. Meaning only Graham is a PG as of now. I wouldn’t count out the possibility of Quick getting there, but it takes time to be good at setting up teammates and i don’t think any of the assists Quick had this year were of that kind.
I’m with Geo in wanting Graham, if it’s on the cheap, but that probably won’t happen.

Randle for Simmons straight up? Hell no!

Last night’s 0.9 second play would have never occurred with Elam ending.

seemed like a great ending but I fell asleep during the 45 minutes when they were reviewing if the ball went off zubuc’s leg or not.

Last night’s 0.9 second play would have never occurred with Elam ending.

wouldn’t have occurred if Thibs were coaching, either. Coach would have drawn up Booker taking a turnaround fadeaway from the logo like Game 1.

whispers, really, because cracking the Nets is kind of like breaking into the Kremlin, that Brooklyn GM Sean Marks would maybe, possibly, apparently be willing to at least listen to a trade offer for Kyrie this offseason.

There were reasons I wanted nothing to do with Kyrie and it wasn’t because of his handle or shot making.

It’s starting to look like the Suns didn’t make as big a mistake as it initially looked when they took Ayton over Doncic. He has a way to go to close the gap, but imo Ayton has the potential to become a two-way game changer. He has some good skills and terrific athleticism.

I think George simply missed the first free throw. His form and body language looked fine to me. But when he missed the first one the pressure to make the second one really spiked. He didn’t look as good on the second one. I feel bad when guys choke a shot. It’s the fear of choking in front of your peers and the blow to your ego that comes with it that causes you to choke to begin with. Even great players are human.

I don’t think there’s any question there was some “fluke” in the Knicks win total this year. That’s mostly irrelevant. This isn’t about counting wins and trying to top last year’s total. A lot of teams will improve, some will get worse, a few will be the same, there will injuries, a few players will have random above average or below average years etc.. All that will contribute to our win total next year eventually.

What we need to be concerned about is our position and ability to keep improving.

We are in good shape there.

We have several players with upside, multiple 1st round picks to draft players, move up, or package in a trade, an excess 1st round pick next year to make or trade, and plenty of cap space. We are positioned as well we have been in a very long time to improve. Now it’s on management to develop the younger talent we have and use that position to bring in better players on a net basis than we had last year. If we keep getting better, the win total will take care of itself.

I’m with Geo in wanting Graham, if it’s on the cheap, but that probably won’t happen.

i mean i have a pretty low opinion of graham so i could be biased… i’m just not a fan of guys with a low 2pt% and that’s a big reason why i think we’re not considering IQ as an option for the pg slot…. they just don’t bend defenses enough…. if they’re in the paint are people actually rotating over to stop their floaters? are they kicking it out enough times for it to matter? and for graham he’s not only had low 2pt% for 3 years… it’s actually declining…

the assists are there and graham plays a pretty heady game… he’s already a very unique player so his development could go in all sorts of directions… but looking at his game right now…. i’m not sure if adding a ton of pullup 3s is the answer we’re looking for in our offense… we run a ton of pick and roll so i’m not sure what part of his game moves the needle to unlock parts of randle or rj’s game ….

with dinwiddie i think it’s pretty clear… he’s good to very good in the pnr… he ran it in pretty well in brooklyn…. with .89 ppp in 2020 at a freq of 48% and .99 ppp in 2019 at 36%….. graham this year was 29.4% at ppp of .72 and last year 45% at .90…. i’m not a big fan of playtype metrics but this is just one way to show their fit differences…

i think you can justify graham… but i prefer to land the bigger fish than spreading out the cap money… because in my view come playoff time you need all the big guns you can muster….

d-mar: Luka is a once in a generation talent and a future multiple MVP winner. Young and Ayton are fine players, but any Hawks or Suns fan who says they’re fine with who they ended up with is full of shit

Obv, in a vacuum any sane GM takes Luka over Ayton 100 times out of 100. I don’t think anyone disputes that.

But, man, this Suns team is so beautifully constructed. All the pieces just fit so well together. Watching Ayton last night, I found myself wondering whether this team – as it presently stands – would have made it this far with Luka instead of Ayton.

Given the current devaluation of the C position on the NBA market, PHX may well have been able to find a reasonable facsimile w/o breaking the bank. That said, Ayton is quickly establishing himself as one of the best rim protectors and dive men in the league so I’m not sure how easily his production could be replicated. Luka, of course, would have made acquiring a Chris Paul unnecessary but one wonders how Doncic and his 36% Usg (CP3’s is 22%) would have co-existed with Booker and his 33% Usg.

The biggest problem with a Simmons/Randle trade, beyond whether or not you think Simmons is salvageable, is that Philly’s not going to want Randle. He doesn’t fit what they need, backcourt/wing help, and he fits terribly next to Embiid so you’d need to figure out a 3rd team that would want Randle and satisfies Philly’s needs.

djphan: i’m just not a fan of guys with a low 2pt% and that’s a big reason why i think we’re not considering IQ as an option for the pg slot

I’m pretty sure IQ isn’t being considered of PG is because he clearly isn’t a PG. I like him but he clearly doesn’t have much playmaking ability.

***Philly’s not going to want Randle. He doesn’t fit what they need, backcourt/wing help, and he fits terribly next to Embiid so you’d need to figure out a 3rd team that would want Randle and satisfies Philly’s needs.***

Randle/Simmons/McCollum then.

But, not sure how Simmons works with what NY needs, which is a bit more pertinent to this than what Philly needs.

I’m pretty sure IQ isn’t being considered of PG is because he clearly isn’t a PG. I like him but he clearly doesn’t have much playmaking ability.

i’m saying the 2pt% is reflective of his deficiencies in being a pg.. he’s not much of a threat once he breaks the 3pt line… same goes for graham… so the gravity that they cause with their dribble drive game is pretty weak… defenses will ignore them on the pnr and live with their floaters against medium pressure or just wait for them to dribble out to the 3pt line again….

if IQ were to become better in 2pt territory … i’m sure his ability to draw defenders with his dribble drive game will increase and all of a sudden the perception will turn… but that’s still an open question….

the difference with graham is that when he has the ball he looks to pass more… but it’s also an open question with him…

Simmons only fits in NYK with a conscious and sizable reboot, he’s not remotely a plug-and-play option. I’d favor that; I doubt the Knicks will.

I don’t want Simmons under any circumstances. Period. The Knicks have been plagued with good defenders that can’t shoot. The next point guard that we have as a starter must be able to defend, run an offense and score at all 3 levels. Enough of running like a hamster on a wheel.

I’m looking for you opinion (most of you have studied the draft more than me). How do you rate the talent overall?

Much of what I’ve read indicates that the top of the draft doesn’t really have a true OMG stud but that the draft is really deep. I didn’t love what I saw of Cunningham (although I only saw his earliest games this year). He may not even end up as a true PG. Mobley and Suggs look legit but we’re not looking at Embid and Harden. I’m sure there’s a drop off somewhere, but 19 and 21 look like sweet spots where there may be a lot of good players. 32 isn’t bad either.

So, how do you read it?

vincoug: I’m pretty sure IQ isn’t being considered of PG is because he clearly isn’t a PG. I like him but he clearly doesn’t have much playmaking ability.

I disagree. He didn’t play PG his final year at Duke and then had a short off-season and was behind 3 other guards so he didn’t get much of a chance at lead guard. But he showed great skill and smarts. He has weaknesses. He’s not super fast. His defense needs to tick up a bit and he’s not great at driving to the hoop. Both his defense and driving ability might improve as he grows into his body more. I wouldn’t mind seeing him running offense. He just needs experience to show his playmaking ability.

Ayton was sort of underrated as a prospect. I mean for a #1 pick. The Suns obviously should have taken Luka but Ayton had the potential to be the kind of big that is worth a high lottery pick.

i would highly disagree with that…. ayton was not like KAT or embiid or davis coming out… he was the kind of big who was highly dependent on others creating for him and he was rather soft on both sides of the ball… he was never looked at a lynchpin for a defense… that’s why he was a clear notch below some of the top guys… even though he was treated similarly before the draft… he was the consensus #1 with a loaded class behind him… which was crazy talk then and in hindsight…

he was a good prospect in the sense that he had a good chance to be brad daugherty or andrew bogut… they would however be always at least a tier below the top guys and had enough deficiencies to never carry a team themselves… and that’s exactly what ayton turned out to be… how that is enough to be the unquestioned #1 pick a number of times i will never understand…

Randle is a legit stretch four now, and he’s a physical defender who doesn’t get roasted by the quicker 3/4 type wings. He stunk in the playoffs but he’s a perfectly playable, versatile stretch four in the modern game, unless his 2020-2021 season turns out to be a complete fluke. He’d play well next to most 5’s.

Hopefully the Sixers concur, because it would be excellent to pawn him off to them at what will virtually surely be the peak of his value.

Hopefully, they’ll ask and decide they want to pay top-level retail for him.

Porzingis at his peak value could have brought in Booker plus and even his value when he was actually traded was significantly higher than the dreck and two meh draft choices for which Pills settled, so we really shouldn’t pass up this opportunity if it presents itself. Randle is never, ever going to be worth more than he’s worth right now. That’s when you sell.

As to the draft, we’ll obviously obsess about it, but the expected value of these two picks is not high and the market value of each of them is less than the value of a pick a team would be willing to throw in to unload a contract (established by Kemba to OKC.) Expectations should be so aligned. It’ s better to be lucky than good, but to get anything much above “decent rotation player” would need some luck and there’s a decent chance they won’t even get that.

The bill for the Thibs wins and the playoffs (awesome as they were) is now coming due. And it’s hitting muscle, not just fat.

“have they been pretty vocal about it”

I don’t recall the sources, certainly nothing official, but I’m pretty convinced it’s happening regardless of its merit. There’s enough smoke around it.

Leon Rose’s moves have been minimalistic but efficient as fuck so far.
I’m waiting for his Summer of 2021 Moves Tour to be at least entertaining!

I haven’t done a deep-dive on Garuba yet but my initial instincts are that both him and Jackson would be a waste of either of our first rounders.

Jackson is definitely an interesting prospect who I think has more upside than the typical rim-runner type, but with Mitch already in tow and the widespread availability of similar, if not quite as good, players I still don’t think you can justify using a first-rounder on him. You can pretty much copy and paste that when it comes to my opinion of Garuba.

The Butler situation is scary and I hope it all works out. If he’s cleared, he’s definitely one of my favorite prospects within our range. I’d be pretty happy with any two of him/Dosunmu/Duarte/Springer/Thomas/Christopher/Cooper.

I definitely like the idea of taking Bassey in the second-round, and on the 1% chance we actually roster the 58th pick David Johnson is probably about as well as you can do there (I’d prefer Champagnie and Wieskamp).

First move is to offer the Pellies Randle, Obi. Quickley and four #1s for Zion, and then leak it.

It’s floated around everywhere because everyone knows Thibs doesn’t want two meh rookies on his team.

Celtics hiring Ime Udoka as their new head coach. He was a guy who intrigued me during our search last year, even though it was clear we were hiring Thibs. You’ve gotta figure Pringles gets a new job, too, which leaves the question of how many assistants Steve Nash will have to replace on that Nets staff.

@ShamsCharania
Team USA’s 12-man roster for the Tokyo Olympics:

Kevin Durant
Damian Lillard
Bradley Beal
Jayson Tatum
Devin Booker
Zach LaVine
Kevin Love
Bam Adebayo
Draymond Green
Jrue Holiday
Khris Middleton
Jerami Grant

Harden dropped out to focus on rehabbing his hamstring injury.

I think the US will win the gold this year.

In fact, I think this team would beat the original ‘92 Dream Team.

(In fact, I think this team would make the original ‘92 Dream Team look like Angola in the process of beating them)

Jonathan Givony
@DraftExpress
·
20h
Utah State’s Neemias Queta had an awesome first day at the NBA Combine, shooting the ball well, making some nice passes and showing terrific timing and instincts defensively. Definitely one of the standouts of the day.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1407515394068336640

Donnie Walsh:
I think the US will win the gold this year.
In fact, I think this team would beat the original ‘92 Dream Team.
(In fact, I think this team would make the original ‘92 Dream Team look like Angola in the process of beating them)

Donnie, with all due respect, there’s no way in hell this team would win against the Dream Team. Clearly you don’t remember the Dream Team.

JK47: The ‘92 Dream Team would lose because John Stockton would give Covid to all of them

LOL!

Here’s the roster, by BPM league rank, out of a pool of 179 players:

Kevin Durant 7th (DNQ)
Damian Lillard 10th
Bradley Beal 31st
Jayson Tatum 23rd
Devin Booker 93rd
Zach LaVine 21st
Kevin Love (DNQ, 0.0 BPM)
Bam Adebayo 14th
Draymond Green 55th
Jrue Holiday 25th
Khris Middleton 64th
Jerami Grant 73rd

The Dream Team had Ewing and Robinson at C, Barkley and Malone at PF, Pippen and Mullin at SF with MJ, Drexler and Stockton in the backcourt all in their prime. They also had Bird playing in his final games before retiring and Magic who unfortunately had retired due to HIV but he still had something left in the tank. Laettner rounded out the team coming off his senior season at Duke.

Those main 9 guys in their prime would beat any team including the much heralded redeem teams in 2008 and 2012. What they lacked in 3pt shooting they more than made up in virtually every other facet of the game. Good luck trying to score on a team with a lineup of MJ-Drexler-Pippen-Malone and either Center.

ptmilo: palm pilots

All your post is hilarious, but man i selected this bit because you brought back a lot of good memories. The Palm Pilot is like the grandfather of the smartphones. I’m probably ancient, because i’m from that era. 😀

cybersoze: All your post is hilarious, but man i selected this bit because you brought back a lot of good memories. The Palm Pilot is like the grandfather of the smartphones. I’m probably ancient, because i’m from that era. 😀

cyber…are you feeling good about your chances in the knockout stage?

pepper: cyber…are you feeling good about your chances in the knockout stage?

It was a hard fought battle today. I don’t know if you saw the brits on twitter following the game to know which team will play against them. The timeline it’s hilarious, at some point during the 90 minutes they had all of the four teams as the opponent. In the end they got Germany. Good luck to them. 😉
I think we have nice chances, Belgium is a very tough opponent, but we just played Germany and France, we’re ready. And i think our team is tailor made for knockout stage because if the game isn’t on the line, they relax too much, but when the game matter the team is always focused and giving their 100%.

The Dream Team had Ewing and Robinson at C, Barkley and Malone at PF, Pippen and Mullin at SF with MJ, Drexler and Stockton in the backcourt all in their prime. They also had Bird playing in his final games before retiring and Magic who unfortunately had retired due to HIV but he still had something left in the tank. Laettner rounded out the team coming off his senior season at Duke.

But most of those guys got hurt early on in the process. The Dream Team was really just Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, and the two centers. Still an incredible collection of historic talent, but that summer, not at their best.

My memory of the Dream Team appears to be flawed.

I can feel the Bobby Portis game happening. If Kevin Huerter can have one so can Bobby.

sorry so bud decides to give jeff teague some run guarding trae? wtf?

i don’t think that’s terrible… trae doesn’t like isolations and so it gets them away from that spread pnr which they always love running which is really where he’s at his most dangerous… and if they run it it’s going to be involve stronger defenders… worth a look at least…

i don’t think that’s terrible… trae doesn’t like isolations and so it gets them away from that spread pnr which they always love running which is really where he’s at his most dangerous…

yeah but they just run pnr anyway and teague either bizarrely goes under despite drop coverage or he manages to trail so far behind going over he literally falls out of the picture…it’s not good

Of course we all seem to forget that Teague has as many All-Star appearances as Young

They better give Trae an assist for that alley to Collins that was nice.

Hawks-Suns would be pretty crazy

Also Gallo put PJ Tucker in the blender, I didn’t know he could still move like that

Dumb foul bailing out that shitty 3 from Trae.

Yeah, those Bucks, what an affront to the aesthetics of the game. Turn off your sets now.

Anyone who thinks the current gap between Trae Young and Luka Doncic is some kind of gaping chasm better check another part of the dispensary menu.

man you cannot touch trae….

Z-man: Anyone who thinks the current gap between Trae Young and Luka Doncic is some kind of gaping chasm better check another part of the dispensary menu.

Something tells me the Hawks wouldn’t have had an easy time against a full-strength Clippers team. And Doncic was phenomenal in that series. Not his fault that his teammates couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean or keep Kawhi from doing anything he wanted at all times.

Wow… if the Hawks pull this game out…

This game needs to go to overtime.

And they found Young on the inbound to get the ball in his hands to be fouled.

These playoffs have been so much more enjoyable than any recent year I can remember. Lots of great games, clutch performances, surprise teams…. Really good.

rama’s cautious optimism was warranted: These playoffs have been so much more enjoyable than any recent year I can remember.

Part of the enjoyment is knowing this is the last time I have to watch a game on mute on account of Marv Albert.

wow they gave him too good a shot. what an incredible game. and no two hour final minute.

I mean that’s simply the best post in the history of this website

48 points for Trae. How can we blame this on NAME REDACTED?

Knicks have done best job in the playoffs of covering Trae Young.

Marv Albert (who was the voice of the Knicks of my childhood) has been really bad in these playoffs. Just tonight, he called a couple of two point shots as threes and gave the wrong point total for a couple of times.

It is really hard to do play-by-play. Marv used to make it look easy. He is no longer up to the task.

Fun fact, Hawks first team to win 3 Game 1s in a row on the road since the 1999 Knicks.

Middleton did not miss a “wide open”
Holiday in the “corner.”

i would disagree.. the replay shows that trae stepped up towards middleton and then holiday was in the corner with a good amount of space with trae’s back towards him.. he needed to hit a window both in time and space for the pass but that’s not usually a hard pass to make under normal circumstances.. esp in a give n go off an inbounds like you sometimes see if that were drawn up… maybe it wasn’t super duper wide open… but it would’ve been too late for a decent contest esp coming from trae…

in any case… middleton’s shot wasn’t super terrible either after looking at it again but i thought there was a better one available imo…

***Donnie, with all due respect, there’s no way in hell this team would win against the Dream Team. Clearly you don’t remember the Dream Team.***

I don’t know. Nobody does (except maybe ptmilo, who knows a all). But I was post-pubescent in both 1992 and 2021, and I believe today’s best players are better than yesterday’s best players on the whole. The 90s teams wouldn’t even know what to do against these 30 foot shooting guards and the 7’ skinny Jordan guy that can score 50 against the best defensive team even with the 2021 equivalent of Mike Iuzzolino as his #2 option.

For me KD and Dame could have been selected for the Dream Team but it’s really difficult to compare players from different eras, the game is too different and the context is too different (nutrition, medicine and so on…).

1992 was a publicity stunt born from the shame of 1988, but if you take that roster not in 1992 (when some of them are old and cranky) but at peak value, good luck 2021.

More important, which set of rules do we use in this Dream Game?

Because with 1992 rules (hand check allowed, no zone defense, brawls permitted) the Dream Team will simply kill, literally not figuratively, the 2021 team.

Malone would break Durant in two during a box out, Stockton would poke Lavine in the eyes and spit on his face to give him Covid, while Jordan will order Tatum and Beal to bed without dinner just staring them in the eyes… it’s hard to take a 30-footer on a stretcher and I don’t want to think what Barkley would do to Middleton… 🙂

With 2021 rules things can be different.

Edit: I agree Brian, if we “catapult” the Dream Team in today’s game with no preparation, the modern team is the hands down favorite.

Guys, the dream team had only 2 players above 30 (Magic and Bird), and i respect opinions on the contrary but i’d take the 92 Dream Team every single day. That’s it.
I’ll leave this challenge for the KD-Dame-lead team… (in the Olympic tournament) “The team was again undefeated, with their closest outing being the 32-point victory over Croatia for the gold medal.”

pepper: you are going to need more offense than just Ronaldo…

We have a “Thibs-like” stubborn coach, can you imagine we have the 4th best european striker (only behind Lewandovski, Messi and Ronaldo, and ahead of Haaland)? And as Ronaldo is much more a forward than a striker, and Portugal historically lack good strikers, he should be playing… but the coach leaves him on the bench!? We’ll see, but when we’ll be in need at least he has that option (Andre Silva).

Owen: What a great game. Getting major Iverson vibe right now on that Sixers Finals run from Trae. I think Solomon Hill was actually on that Sixers team.

Whaaat?? Is that right? Wasn’t that final like two generations ago? 😀

Guys, the dream team had only 2 players above 30 (Magic and Bird), and i respect opinions on the contrary but i’d take the 92 Dream Team every single day. That’s it.

Stockton broke his leg. Bird’s back gave out again. Drexler had to have his right knee drained. Magic strained his knee playing against Croatia. Etc. They were the walking wounded.

Again, other than Jordan, Pippen, and Barkley, very few of those guys were at their best that summer, even if they were technically in their primes. But those three are really all we needed back then to destroy the likes of Angola. So if we’re talking about plucking the Dream Team away from Barcelona in July of 92, I’d give this current roster a good chance.

In other news, there’s something about our new “mistery man” (maybe Frank can go, we have a new mistery PG coming from europe to adopt! LOL) …
Knicks: Luca Vildoza to be tested vs Team USA in Las Vegas camp

Two takeaways if you don’t have time to read it:
– Next month Argentina will play an exhibition game against the US, in Las Vegas (July 13); It’ll be the first time to take a look at him;
– He’s been working out with the Knicks for a month now, and was joined by 3 Knicks players in this final week before leaving for LV;

That Trae-Colllins off the backboard alley-oop has to be one of the best YOLO plays in a big spot I’ve ever seen. It really is a miracle that we won a game against Atlanta and easily could’ve been up 2-0 in that series.

Yeah good luck stopping Jordan without hand checking, or triple teaming him with today’s shooters waiting in the corners.

Sorry, Cyber. I tend to get needlessly pedantic whenever anyone proposes a “could Roster X defeat the Dream Team?” hypothetical. Because the Dream Team as we think of it existed on paper more than it did in reality. But Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Malone, and Ewing by themselves would be a tough out on a lot of modern rosters.

Z-man:
Anyone who thinks the current gap between Trae Young and Luka Doncic is some kind of gaping chasm better check another part of the dispensary menu.

I’m not sure why anyone ever thought there was a huge gap to begin with other than Luka got way more hype.

They have different strengths and weaknesses on offense but it nets out pretty close.

Luka gets more rebounds, but a lot of them are strategic/role related and not actually adding much value. The big men on the team sometimes defer defensive rebounds to him so he gets the ball in his hands sooner and can start the break.

Defensively they are both a negative now, but long term if Doncic ever gets into shape I’d have to think he can eventually become a pretty good defender. I don’t think Trae will ever defend well. Trae is worse now.

Another difference is that it seems to me that Trae made a huge leap this year in understanding when to shoot, when to move the ball, when to make a really tough pass etc.. There’s still room for improvement, but he’s playing smarter. After he had that little dust up with John Collins and Nate McMillan took over, he moved to the next level. Nate McMillan deserves a TON of credit for the job he’s doing there.

I’m harsh on Doncic because I think he has other worldly potential, but he hasn’t made that intellectual leap yet. When I watch Doncic play I go back and forth between utter amazement and shaking my head at some of the asinine shots he took or passes he made.

Long term I still like Doncic because of his size, but he’ll eventually have to improve his decision making.

I think mentally Trae has the edge right now as far as desire/drive. Luka seems kind of content to be at the level he’s at right now. Maybe a new coach will help. But I think Trae is partly driven by being smaller and also because he’s kind of hated by opposing teams fans and its been that way since college, so he kind of has this drive/edge to prove people wrong and show up the opposing team’s fans. I hate the dude but he has absolutely beasted out in these playoffs and I feel far better about losing to them in 5 games now.

I’m slow on this because I never really looked that deep into Trae Young until this season, but all these comparisons between Steph and Trae are SO unwarranted. Steph is a consistent 50/40/90 guy on high volume- something Trae will NEVER be. Trae has the 3 ball in him and hits big shots, but he’s just a solid shooter with unlimited range, in comparison to Steph. Trae is an excellent player but I don’t think anyone fears a career 35% 3 point shooter. I think teams fear his ballhandling and craftiness coupled with his willingness to take and make big shots off script. Trae is just a great PG in this league who has the ability to score at a high clip just as well as he can run that offense- which is more scary than his percentage from deep.I wouldn’t leave him open tho lol

It’s funny, the other day people were trying to use Philly’s limited success as proof against asset-accumulation rebuilding. Um, how about the Hawks? They did a Process, too, just without the marketing fanfare. It’s nice to be able to have two of your top-10 lottery picks be out and still be up 1-0 in the conference finals bc you tanked to get Trae Young and have help from all those extra firsts you picked up like Kevin Huerter and John Collins, and the free agents like Bogdo and Gallo you were able to sign bc your whole team was on rookie contracts.

All I know is that under today’s rules the way the Knicks defended Jordan would result in a season record number of FTs over a 7 game series, except every Knick would have fouled out by halftime.

I literally have no idea if or how a team using modern foul rules doesn’t send Jordan to the line 50 times a game or allows Jordan to dunk the ball every possession.

Pacers re-hired Rick Carlisle. Time is a flat circle.

“Pacers re-hired Rick Carlisle. Time is a flat circle.”

Just wait until we re-sign Tim Hardaway Jr this off-season.

E, all merc’d out: Strat has some misses but he also has some dead-on hits

Don’t we all? 😉

It’s pretty wild that 3 of the top 10 picks in the 2018 NBA draft are starting in the conference finals three years later. I don’t think there is much precedent for that, but it does show that ”The Process” doesn’t have to be a long process.

The top-10 picks have combined to play 1600 minutes in the playoffs this year (and will be 2000+ once the playoffs are wrapped up).

I think this year’s team compares very favorably to Christian Laettner

Trae is not better than Luka. Not during this playoffs and not ever, come on people.

Looking at just this playoffs (if we look at careers it’s not even close) Luka posted an 11.2 BPM this playoffs, 46 points per 100 possessions on .587 TS%, 11.5 bounds, 12.4 assists, and 1.7 steals and played (slightly) better defense while playing with categorically worse teammates and shouldering a higher usage.

Trae, meanwhile, posted an 8.5 BPM, scored 39 per 100 on the same TS%, with 4 rebounds, the same number of assists and steals, and worse defense. And he’s doing this with a way better supporting cast. Trae is showing that he’s a top 15 player in the league right now. But there is still a gap (not a chasm, a gap) between him and Luka Doncic a top 5 player in the nba.

Discussions between Sixers and Simmons reps going on but no trade request “yet.” Divorce coming.

He’s probably been the best player overall of the entire playoffs when you consider that they’re still in the playoffs.

Trae has a long way to go to be as good as kevin durant was in the playoffs. Luka was probably the 2nd best player, albeit in fewer games.

Young, Booker, and Mitchell have all arrived and are all right behind them. They’re having more great moments but the total body of work has to be considered. KD & Luka on a per game or per minute basis have been the best.

Early Bird:
“Pacers re-hired Rick Carlisle. Time is a flat circle.”

Just wait until we re-sign Tim Hardaway Jr this off-season.

Heck, if that happens, I might start believing that the Earth is a flat circle, too.

If we’re comparing playoff numbers from this year, it’s worth pointing out Trae has gone against the #2 & #3 defenses in the league so far. And despite underwhelming rate stats against Philly, I think Simmons and Thybulle are better defenders at this point than anyone the Clippers can throw at Luka (all due respect to the aging Kawhi).

On the flipside, I’d say the Clippers are a better team than anyone the Hawks have played this playoffs. Losing in the 1st round of the west isn’t really a knock on Luka. At least by SRS, the Clippers are better than every team in the east.

Luka Doncic is better than Trae Young and will likely always be. That said, winners don’t say sorry, and the Hawks are doing all of this without Cam Reddish, DeAndre Hunter, and Okongwu being major contributors to this team. The problem with Dallas is they traded 3 1RPs total to land Doncic and Hardaway Jr, and that’s just not a good enough 1-2 punch. They don’t have cap flexibility because they signed Porzingis to a max and with no draft assets, they’re stuck.

In short, Atlanta had a better plan than Dallas, and they almost screwed that up by hiring Lloyd Pierce.

STATS ARE MEANINGLESS IN THE PLAYOFFS IF YOU WIN AND ADVANCE.

is this another way of saying that stats are meaningful for the sixers… but not the hawks?

didn’t they play against each other? are these like the statistics version of shrodinger’s cat?

or are you saying that stats exist but the only thing that matters are narratives in the playoffs?

so nobody misunderstands can you please clarify… because maybe i’m stupid but this doesn’t make any sense…

Anyone still thinking Atlanta is mediocre? If they are mediocre, they would definitely take the gold in the Mediocre Olympics.

Atlanta’s trade for Trae Young is looking a lot less one sided than it has appeared even up to a few weeks ago.

In short, Atlanta had a better plan than Dallas, and they almost screwed that up by hiring Lloyd Pierce.

Atlanta absolutely had a better plan than Dallas.

But they should have taken Luka. Would anyone not want to replace Trae and Reddish with Luka on this team right now?

As an eastern conference opponent, thank god we don’t have to deal with that.

Luka and Trae are both amazing – there, I just saved 400 more posts.

Have we had any thoughts on the draft?

Or how to approach FA?

Honestly – I wonder if it’d be possible to trade one of the 1st rounders for a top 20 protected 2022 or 2023 first rounder + a 2nd or something. There’s no way we are bringing 3 rookies into camp, so may as well defer the picks as much as possible.

I’d be all for drafting one of these guys, who seem on mock draft boards to be available in our range:
– Chris Duarte
– Trey Murphy
– Jaden Springer
– Tre mann
– JT Thor

Jared Butler would be interesting – as far as I can tell, he’s been playing with a pacemaker all along. Not sure why they flagged it now. But perhaps he’d fall because of it, and could be a good value pick for a team with multiple picks (ie. us).

some numbers from the nba combine

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine/

notables:

1)Keon Johnson with a 48 inch max vertical leap.. combine record… Jaden Springer with 41.5 (altho i think his issue is that he’s a two foot jumper).. Ayo Dosunmu 39…

2)the long bois – Moses Moody with a 7ft 0.75in wingspan… Ayo Dosunmu 6’10.25″ (sorry not sorry yes i’m shamelessly plugging him) Scottie Barnes 7’2.75″…. Neemias Queta 7’4.0″… Charles Bassey 7’3.0″…

3)(somewhat)disappointments – height w/o shoes.. Keon Johnson 6’3.5″… Jaden Springer 6’3″… Davion Mitchell 6’0″…

thenoblefacehumper:
I am a huge Trae fan and always have been. That said, trying to argue he’s even close to Luka’s level is the most typical flavor of the moment garbage hot take imaginable.

The problem is the people making the argument have outright said they are not swayed by objective facts, so god bless everyone trying to reason with them but they have quite literally said they will not be reasoned with.

Right, but these sports analytics things and the whole enterprise really always boil down to, “I know and care about objective facts than you do” and that’s a claim that has nothing to do with sports. Sports aren’t there to serve as a vehicle for people to posture about how much they care about “objective facts” and it’s unfortunate that they’re both seen that way and that they’ve been hijacked by that element. To a not-insignificant degree that impulse has served as an entry point to sports for people who would otherwise not really care about sports at all. (That last sentence doesn’t include any of the people here.)

And of course that doesn’t even get to the reality that the so-called “objective facts” are almost always anything but.

TNFH — serious question. Are there any pro athletes, basketball players or otherwise, that you just simply *like*, irrespective of where they stand in the “value” pecking order based on the data their games throw off? Have you ever had that experience?

TNFH — serious question. Are there any pro athletes, basketball players or otherwise, that you just simply *like*, irrespective of where they stand in the “value” pecking order based on the data their games throw off? Have you ever had that experience?

Yeah, tons. Gary Sanchez is finally rewarding me for sticking with him through some of the most empirically rough patches I’ve ever seen from a full-time player in any sport, just to give one example. I love that guy.

I also don’t let this kind of thing affect my answers to questions regarding a player’s ability to influence the outcome of games vis-a-vis others. You’re free to prefer Trae to Luka aesthetically, or as a person, or whatever. If you extend that into an argument that he’s a better basketball player though…I mean, you’re just wrong.

The funny thing is I’m not even a huge believer in AIO box score metrics and think fit, etc. can have a large effect on production. I was saying years ago that these metrics woefully undersold Devin Booker.

But to try to argue that Trae is better than Luka, or that Frank Ntilikina doesn’t suck, you’re just operating on the opposite extreme from the (99% made up) people who decide who the best players are by looking at the BPM leaderboard or whatever. You’re essentially arguing that nothing in the game of basketball is tangible.

The heart issues are obviously a red flag but from the admittedly fairly little draft research I’ve done so far it sure looks like Jared Butler would be the best realistic option at 19.

butler i have a tough time seeing break the 1st rd… those heart issues are apparently why he had to transfer to baylor … alabama wouldn’t clear him… baylor also had previous experience with managing heart issues with isaiah austin also but he never got drafted because of it… he wound up getting cleared much later and had a decent overseas career…

To be clear, I have no ability to account for this at all and am going purely off my opinion prior to finding out about it. You’re probably right realistically, and I sure hope this entire situation is handled as carefully as possible.

Re: Mann, I honestly didn’t know about his rim frequency and that does change some things. It’s still a little disturbing to me that he was so bad as a freshman and I worry he might be a bit of a tweener, but you could do a lot worse at 19/21 than someone who will likely at least stick as a bench shooter.

Found it! Here’s the CBS mock with Jackson and Mann as our picks. I did not imagine it.

mann’s rim #s start looking a little better when you consider that he got to the rim a staggering 43% of the time…

actually i read those #s wrong.. 43% was his midrange shooting% which i had next to his rim% numbers.. his actual rim% is at 26.5%… which is ok but not stellar…. and 59% shooting at the rim is probably below what you’d like to see… but he does have a nice in between game to compensate and a nice overall shot profile…. he is a true 3 level scorer which is the main reason i like him…

If it’s true that the Knicks are interviewing a lot of players that figure to get drafted well above where they will select it adds some weight to the view they are open to moving up in the draft rather than adding 3 rookies. If the right player is available in the 6-10 range, imo they should definitely move up unless and even better deal is available for a star. We don’t need role players.

I think I’d roll the dice on Jared Butler at #19 if our medical staff says yes. I also wouldn’t hesitate to draft Ayo, Springer, Mann or Cooper with #21.

thenoblefacehumper:
I am a huge Trae fan and always have been. That said, trying to argue he’s even close to Luka’s level is the most typical flavor of the moment garbage hot take imaginable.

The problem is the people making the argument have outright said they are not swayed by objective facts, so god bless everyone trying to reason with them but they have quite literally said they will not be reasoned with.

I agree that Trae is not as good as Luka. IMO, there’s a good chance the gap will increase over time if Luka finally gets in shape and learns WHEN to shoot the tough ones, when to make to make the tough pass, when to move the ball etc.. However, their offensive stats are very similar both for the year and their careers. The major thing separating them statistically is rebounding, However, imo the rebounds are a partially a mirage in terms of value to the team because many are deferred to him. The Mavs bigs often allow Doncic to get rebounds even though they are in position to get them too. The strategy is for Doncic to have the ball ASAP instead of having to make an outlet pass. It’s the same strategy used with Harden and Westbrook at times. Trae is too small to use the same strategy. The major difference between them now is on defense. Doncic is clearly less bad on defense and has way more upside due to his size

It’s hard to follow this year’s mock drafts, every time is a new combination of players. It’s probably easier to point out which players were NOT mocked on our picks.

Yeah, I’m not even going to bother paying attention until draft night, honestly. 🙂 Better to not get my hopes up.

I mean, who are the realistic trade-up targets? #19 and #21 could get you, what, the #10 at best, right? Then you’re looking at people like: Johnson, Bouknight, Moody, Sengun, Wagner, or Davion Mitchell (gulp). I could see Bouknight, Johnson, Sengun, and Wagner working as trade up targets: they have enough upside to their game (besides Wagner, who is just solid) to maybe justify a big swing/trade up. But are any of them better as a value proposition than, say, Ayo Dosunmo + Jaden Springer? Or Sharife Cooper + Chris Duarte? Or…etc.? One thing to think about is whether draft position is overrated in this draft, given the fact that it’s so undifferentiated past the top 6 (Scottie Barnes is my subjective cutoff, along with Johnson though idk about his personal issues or whatever). Whatever gap there is between Wagner, Bouknight, etc. I don’t think it overcomes the value gleaned from two bites at the apple in this draft.

I don’t want Kidd coaching the Mavs, their 2023 pick is top-10 protected

kevin5318:
Don’t see how 19 and 21 gets us much higher than about like 10 or so unless some teams really likes Quickley as an add in.

It might be 19, 21, and 32.

Strat I don’t mean to pile on but “we should trade up if there’s a good opportunity to do so” is kind of the draft strategy equivalent of “we should sign a bunch of team-friendly contracts in free agency.” Every draft, like every free agency class, has its particulars. Yes, we should take all good opportunities. The hard part is identifying them.

For which player(s), specifically, do you think it would be worth packaging some or all of our picks? Let’s say Cade/Suggs/Mobley/Green/Barnes/Kuminga are out of the question. In all likelihood more guys than that are out of the question, but for the sake of argument I’ll let you assume we can package 19, 21, and 32 for anyone else in the draft.

Also no pressure but this thread specifically prompts one to try to identify whether or not certain free agent contracts are team-friendly and I don’t believe you’ve weighed in. I am genuinely curious as to your takes, because signing precisely these kinds of contracts is basically how you think contenders get built.

The mocks are all over the place so there’s really no need to follow them, better wait for draft night and economize brain cells.

Plus I know our spots are far from the “sure picks” of the draft, but every time I read “high upside but low floor” in the snippets of one of our possible picks (as Vecenie wrote about Jalen Johnson on The Athletic) I can’t help but think KEVIN KNOX and cringe…

Finally, I hope I’m wrong but I have a difficult time thinking of Thibs coaching a team with three rookies, two sophomores and Vildoza on the roster…

I’ll be really impressed if the Knicks manage to trade up more than a couple of slots. I mean, if we have a player we like at 16, 17 or 18, OKC or Memphis might be willing to swap; but, after that, the teams that might be willing to swap are probably ones that are more interested in winning now than later, and those teams will probably want to receive players in the deal. Since lots of our players are free agents we don’t have a lot of likely candidates to trade. For those of you suggesting a trade up, which team do you think is willing to move down?

To be absolutely cold about it, Mitchell Robinson is probably the best player to trade if we want to move up in the draft. We did alright without him this year and probably could do so again if we had to. If we’re willing to do this then maybe something like Robinson and pick 21 to New Orleans for Adams and number 10. New Orleans saves a ton of money because we can take Adams into cap space and they get a reasonable player. We get a much better pick

Trading a good player for a worse, much more expensive player to move up 11 spots in the draft would be a very poor idea. the 21 for Adams and the 10 would be what you’d want to offer. Adams didn’t work for the Pelicans and they owe him another 60 million, why would we offer them something good for a contract they probably really want to get rid of?

I should also add that taking on a bad contract to move up in the draft is a good idea and one I hadn’t thought of.

JK47: I keep thinking BJ Boston with the 32 pick is pretty much inevitable, unless we trade that pick

It was way worse when we thought we’d be taking him with one of our 1RPs. At 32th i wouldn’t like it, but wouldn’t be mad either.

Donnie Walsh: That BJ had better be pretty damn good for me to want to take a dude named Boston.

LOL!
Well, if Geo’s idea goes ahead and we sign TJ. We already have RJ, so if we draft BJ we’re only two players away from an All-J team. 😀

That’s another reason we are unlikely to move up

Trae totally controls crunch time. That’s what Isiah used to do.

Max:
…
Finally, I hope I’m wrong but I have a difficult time thinking of Thibs coaching a team with three rookies, two sophomores and Vildoza on the roster…

I’m not sure he will have as hard of time as we’re imagining. For one, roster construction is not up to him. Two, he did play the rookies this year (you can argue to what extent, but he did). Three, he’s got assistant coaches who’ve shown they can develop players w/talent.

We still need to build our depth through the draft.

People on this board were wondering why Kidd took himself out of the running in Portland. If Jason Kidd gets the Dallas job, that is a much better basketball situation than Portland. Luka on a rookie scale deal is a much better foundation than Dame making >$40M.

“Terence Mann goes the distance.”

Not sure if Breen did that intentionally or not.

No Payne tough for the Suns. I continue to be impressed by Ayton. Has good touch on his jumper.

The Boatrocker is making a big impact. Devin Booker is not.

CP3 should be sharper over the next couple of games. It’s a lot to ask for him to miss that time and then take a major role right out of the box. To me, the Clippers are easily the best team left when 100%, but they are banged up.

Man, the East could be tough next year. Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Philadelphia and Atlanta will all be good. Miami and Boston are unlikely to be pushovers and Indiana should be much better with Carlisle coaching them.

***”Terrance Mann goes the distance.” Not sure if Breen did that intentionally or not.***

It would have worked better if there was a player on the Clippers named Moonlight Graham, but a noble attempt all the same. (I didn’t see the game, but was there really no “ease his pain” moment to reference?)

But how could he know the Dallas job would be available?

By the way, Indy fans seem really happy to get Carlisle.

I always felt that when Jason Kidd is in the building, no matter who else is there, he’s the smartest basketball mind in the room. Maybe this Dallas gig will coincide with a more mature coaching approach this time.

Some interesting but dispiriting thoughts from Ethan Strauss on why the league is unlikely to fix the endless foul-and-pray conclusions of games:

Here’s one reason that won’t happen anytime soon. The perverse incentives of Nielsen measurement likely favor the boring, disjointed game ending, since the final rating for a game is based on its per-minute average. Typically, you get the most viewers in the fourth quarter, when the action is tight. So extending the end of a game can help boost its average by holding frame on the moment of peak viewership and drawing it out.

My prediction is the Knicks will make 2 draft picks and will attempt to move up from 19 and 21 to make 2 picks in the top 15 if possible. Or will move one of those picks up as much as possible by attaching a bunch of the second rounders they have.

I think Rose knows they need to keep adding young cost controlled talent but will concede to Thibs a bit in the sense that he won’t make 3 or 4 picks this draft and will try to give Thibs quality over quantity by drafting 2 very solid prospects.

I think Villadoza will fit in quicker than we expect. I mean, it didn’t take Pablo that long to acclimate to the NBA. Villadoza is practicing with teammates as we speak and is 27. He is not a typical rookie.

I predict we will bring back Rose, Bullocks, and Taj for sure. And then I predict we will go bargain hunting for another bench big to replace Noel. And we will go big name free agent hunting in the form of Conley/Lowry and Derozan. Those vets will be given big short term deals (like 2 years). The goal being to immediately upgrade where we need help but add youth as well in the draft who can develop behind the vets.

I suspect we might include Knox in a trade up as well. Which sucks because my wife just got me one of those dope NBA JAM t-shirts but they were out of the one with RJ and Toppin so she got me the RJ and Knox one.

Soooo, soooo happy for you, Swift! That’s great news! Congrats!

Congratulations on the new baby! My cousin lost her first child due to SIDS and I know how that took a toll on her. The pain of loss is surely unimaginable in that situation but she has been a wonderful mother and cherishes every moment as I’m sure you will with your baby. I hope for nothing but the best and many years of great times and memories for your family!

Congrats, swift!

The first good news of the offseason. Hooray, swift! I’m not even going to make a joke at your expense! That’s how pure our internet brotherhood runs!

Well we’ve already received the best news of the offseason. Congrats Swift! Here’s to maybe entering an era in which raising your child as a Knicks fan isn’t a matter of interest to CPS? Hopefully?

i really detest trading up in this draft… but Bouknight is one that is maaaybe ok… i have him rated #7

I agree that it would be dumb regardless but if it’s going to happen, Bouk and Giddey would be the two targets I could live with.

It’s completely insane to me that Christopher is being slept on like this. Dude shot 72% at the rim and profiles as a great shooter. Feels a bit like a KPJ/Melton situation in which stats oriented people are screaming at the top of their lungs, are ignored, and whaddya know numbers turn out to matter.

The Honorable Cock Jowles: Also, unrelated to that, is it time to talk about Kobe’s rape accusation yet? I keep waiting for the day and it never comes

We’ll probably talk about it around the same time we talk about Derrick Rose’s.

Great news swift! Welcome to the world Margaret!

Don’t know if you all saw the stat, but the Clippers are the first team ever to get back from a 0-2 deficit 2 series in a row (they trailed the Mavs 0-2 in the first round, and the Jazz in the second round). And yesterday there they were, trailing the Suns 0-2… what will happen this time?

Congratulations, Swift. Uplifting news, and so happy for you and yours. Hope you get some sleep in there!

Great news, Swift! I hope all goes well for you and your family!

Congratulations Swift! Fantastic news, best wishes to you, your wife and little Margaret!

great news swift

Congrats Swift!

Mitch looking a lot stronger in recent pics. If he’s actually 275lbs then he’s pretty much Embiid’s size now.

Wow, fantastic news, Swift. Really happy for you and your wife.

Great news Swift! So happy to hear it, really terrific….

Congrats, Swift!

Amazing news Swift, so happy for you, your wife, and Margaret!

So, are people ready to post their final or near final first round big boards?

Here’s mine:
1. Suggs
2. Mobley
3. Cunningham
4. Green
5. Jalen Johnson
6. Scottie Barnes
7. James Bouknight
8. Alperen Sengun
9. Franz Wagner
10. Ayo Dosunmu
11. Josh Giddey
12. Jaden Springer
13. Jonathan Kuminga
14. Josh Christopher
15. Keon Johnson
16. Jared Butler (if healthy)
17. Tre Mann
18. Moses Moody
19. Cam Thomas
20. Trey Murphy
21. Sharife Cooper
22. Day’Ron Sharpe
23. Neemias Queta
24. Charles Bassey (these bigs are all approximately equal to me lol)
25. Bones Hyland
26. Miles McBride
27.Roko Prakcin
28. Isaiah Jackson
29. Usman Garuba
30 (here im gonna cheat). Kispert/Kessler Edwards/Aaron Henry/Mckinley Wright

this list is funny though, because I don’t think there’s much of a gulf between 9 and ~28 here. This draft is so hard to figure out

Wonderful news, Swift. Wishing you all the best.

I wish I could figure out why people like Kuminga so much. He has Cam Reddish written all over him. And I also find it funny that people are like, “Wow, look what the Hawks are doing… and all without Reddish in the lineup!” Like, yeah, that’s a good thing for them.

Mazel tov, Swift & Abundant.

Moving from the marvelous to the mundane, I have high hopes for a healthy Mitchell Robinson in the coming season.

Here are four things I hope to see from Mitch on offense to expand his game beyond lobs and offensive rebounds.

1. Mix in solid screens with the slip screens. He now has the bulk to dish out punishment without moving.
2. If Mitch gets down court early but it is not a fast break, duck in and seal for an easy low post catch and dunk. Especially do this IF he is cross-matched against a guard.
3. When Mitch catches above the arc at the top of the key, dribble-handoff to RJ or Randle. Especially do this if the opposing 5 has dropped below the foul line. This should create an open 3.
4. One-dribble drives when catching the ball at the foul line.

SF from Gonzaga. Silky has him at 30, tnfh has him at 29.

Swift, your optimism on this board is only surpassed by your intrepid spirit in real life. Congrats to you and your life partner, your kid is in great hands!

i don’t usually lock my list until draft day but it’s about time for an update anyway since we got some more data from the combine…

1. Jalen Suggs
2. Jalen Green
3. Evan Mobley
4. Cade Cunningham
5. Alperen Sengun
6. Jalen Johnson
7. James Bouknight
8. Josh Christopher
9. Scottie Barnes
10. Jonathan Kuminga
11. Keon Johnson
12. Moses Moody
13. Charles Bassey
14. Josh Giddey
15. Ayo Dosunmu
16. Tre Mann
17. Jaden Springer
18. Franz Wagner
19. Nah’shon Hyland
20. Chris Duarte
21. Isaiah Jackson
22. Terrence Shannon
23. Sharife Cooper
24. Neemias Queta
25. Kessler Edwards
26. Aaron Henry
27. Greg Brown
28. Corey Kispert
29. Jared Butler
30. Davion Mitchell

Josh Christopher unsurprisingly showed out at the combine .. he showed exactly what he’s done all year which is attacking the rack with abandon and showing dominant scoring ability.. unfortunately he also showed why some are down on him which is questionable shot selection… still the overall package is really appealing..

Nah’Shon Hyland i didn’t rank before… but that was probably a mistake.. he had a very good soph year but very mediocre as a freshman… taken together the stat profile still looks good… he also showed out at the combine… wingspan also clocked in over 6’9″ which is amazing for a guy his size.. still he’s in combo guard territory due to his size and lack of pg ability… his game is very eerily similar to IQ .. Hyland has a more well rounded game but aesthetically and stylistically it’s almost like looking at the same player.. would be pretty redundant to pick him imo…

The value on the 19.. 21.. and 32 picks in this draft is really really high… starting from #8-24… you will see wildly different values for them on any mock… and we will very likely have a chance to pick one of them at each of our picks… which is an incredible opportunity…

I don’t care to debate Trae vs. Luka, but it’s very clear that each of them has ice water in his veins. Trae has no conscience.

And man, John Collins is gonna get paid this year. Hawks can match, but $121M instead of $90M will have some big luxury tax implications and if I understand correctly, if he signs an offer sheet with another team, he cannot complete a S&T with the Hawks. Is this the circumstance where he can’t be traded for a full year after the Hawks match, or something like that? Someone smarter and more knowledgeable can correct that if it’s wrong.

Mitchell was measured at only 6 feet so I’m a little less enthusiastic about him. He looked bigger in highlights.

The Hawks don’t look at their best today

much love swift…that’s one very lucky little girl 🙂

Margaret is a beautiful name, you got me smiling ear to ear and feeling good inside, thank you so much for sharing…praying for you all to have a blessed journey together…

yeah, have fun with diaper duty dude…

cooper is most definitely not 6ft 5…. pretty sure that’s a typo….

Yeah Cooper was 6’04 the typo said 6’4

djphan:
cooper is most definitely not 6ft 5…. pretty sure that’s a typo….

True, but he’s definitely a game changer.

With Milwaukee leading by 35 and only 4 minutes to go in the 3Q, it is time for McMillan to get his injured players (Bogdonovic & Young) out of the game.

With Milwaukee leading by 35 and only 4 minutes to go in the 3Q, it is time for McMillan to get his injured players (Bogdonovic & Young) out of the game.

Reeeeeeeeeeally weird usage, right?

Seems like ATL’s MO is win game 1 on the road, then lose game 2. The next game will be more telling of where the series will go. Hopefully the Bucks will continue to play like they did tonight.

Man, I really hope we don’t trade out of the first round of this draft. So much opportunity.

Like I’ve said before, I’m not even paying attention to anyone in specific just so I’m not disappointed, but there are so many guys that intrigue the fuck out of me and I agree, why in the world would you want to trade out of the first round of this draft, when #19 and #21 can get you guys who could probably legitimately be in your rotation? This team is on such a strong path forwards with regards to building for a strong future and adding two good young players at #19 and #21 would be a real boon to that path.

Trae more or less did a Randle-like reversion to old Trae last night. The Bucs were obviously well prepared to slow him down after he killed them in game one. What he and Randle have to learn is that if the shot is not there, don’t drive into a wall of defenders. If the pass is not there, don’t force it anyway. All you are going to do is miss or turn the ball over. That’s the kind of nonsense Randle did all last year and in the playoffs this year. It’s the kind of stuff Trae has been getting away from this season and why he has been playing so much better. It may not be glamorous, but when you have nothing in terms of a shot or aggressive pass, you have to simply keep moving the ball until it finds an open player. If they are heavily geared towards stopping you, someone else is going to have good opportunities. You can’t force up trash or turn the ball over trying to do too much. Less can be more. I’m sure he’ll correct that next game, but they are still the inferior team. The Bucks are a bit better and more experienced under fire.

– Congratulations, S&A! That’s huge for you and your family!

– Davion Mitchell is the same age as Malik Monk, who probably would have looked just as dominant against NCAA talent. His height/age combo alone takes him out of lottery consideration for me, and there’s really no film or statistics that would change my mind.

– The Hawks probably shouldn’t have beat Philly in the last series, but Nate McMillan out coached Doc Rivers and as a result of that Ben Simmons lost all of his confidence and didn’t play up to what could have been reasonably expected from him. If Ben Simmons could make free throws and Doc Rivers didn’t have 28-3 syndrome, Atlanta loses the last series in five. If Milwaukee doesn’t implode, this is the series Atlanta goes home. Maybe they get one more game at home but I don’t see how Atlanta has a chance in this series.

Deeefense:
Trae more or less did a Randle-like reversion to old Trae last night.The Bucs were obviously well prepared to slow him down after he killed them in game one. What he and Randle have to learn is that if the shot is not there, don’t drive into a wall of defenders. If the pass is not there, don’t force it anyway. All you are going to do is miss or turn the ball over. That’s the kind of nonsense Randle did all last year and in the playoffs this year. It’s the kind of stuff Trae has been getting away from this season and why he has been playing so much better. It may not be glamorous, but when you have nothing in terms of a shot or aggressive pass, you have to simply keep moving the ball until it finds an open player. If they are heavily geared towards stopping you, someone else is going to have good opportunities. You can’t force up trash or turn the ball over trying to do too much. Less can be more.I’m sure he’ll correct that next game, but they are still the inferior team. The Bucks are a bit better and more experienced under fire.

Randle seemed to be playing as if he was on heavy doses of caffeine mixed with adrenaline in the playoffs. Hopefully he’ll calm down the next time.

Saw that too, Alan. And for the rest, here’s the article if you haven’t read it yet.

Tom Thibodeau bares what Knicks are looking for in NBA Draft

I think Thibs is changing his idea about how valuable the draft is, and i liked a lot this quote from him:
“I love coming here for the opportunity to sit down and interview with players. You get to know them a lot better. So you’re still gathering information. You see who might be a good fit for you. And again, I think we’re looking for wings and guys who can shoot. So there’s a number of guys that we think are gonna be good pros. So there’s a lot of value here“

What kind of wings is Thibs looking for? The spicy kind?

DudeInKnicksTown:
What kind of wings is Thibs looking for? The spicy kind?

speaking of wings…I can’t find them at all anymore in supermarkets…it’s like they have completely disappeared…some weird food supply chain issues going on right now…

Looks like I’m headed back to staples center this evening. Rooting for clips to win the game, but the suns to win the series. (Objective and dispassionate fandom is the best).

Wings went from $80 a case to $130 a case where I live in upstate for the restaurants here. They aren’t even ordering them anymore.

TheClashFan: If the Knicks want to move up, I wonder if Knox has any little value at all? I realize maybe none… How far could they go packaging, say, the #19, Knox, and the #32?
All the way up to #18? 🙂

Maybe the Spurs surrender the 12th pick for that package

Donnie Walsh: Looks like I’m headed back to staples center this evening. Rooting for clips to win the game, but the suns to win the series. (Objective and dispassionate fandom is the best).

Can you go talk to Kawhi and convince him to come to the Knicks, or is that tampering? 😀

Brian, would this Berman of the Post primer on Knicks point guard options justify a new thread? You could even make a poll!

Alan:
Brian, would this Berman of the Post primer on Knicks point guard options justify a new thread? You could even make a poll!

I really like Sharife Cooper, the more I see of him.

kevin5318:
Shariffe feels like the one guy in our range that we will regret not taking a few years from now.

Let’s hope we take him.

Trainwreck of a game by Paul but they’re hanging in there.

Great game to pad the rebounding stats with all the misses

It was a close call. So was the jump ball. And thenoverturn of Beverley block was correct. Feel like the refs have done ok at the end here.

Good for George making those free throws.

Pretty rare for Paul to miss so many jump shots. Could have iced this game like he normally does.

And I agree with the crew that the ball could have been called off Payne

Boogie I think knows that rule. I have had to do that. It’s not as easy as it seems and it’s not something you practice.

Gonna Boogie oogie oogie till we just can’t boogie no more

clips were down by 2 so boogie needed to bounce the ball off the rim on his second free throw attempt and hope the clips grabbed it and made a basket…

i watched like the last 30 seconds of the whole game – but, the part that i did see: the ball 1,000,000,000 percent went off of payne’s hand there at the very end

cadet candidate (state your last name) reports to the first sergeant for the first time as ordered (salute)…i’ll never forget that simple phrase for the rest of my life, maybe 30% of all humans are actually capable of getting that shit out coherently the first day, i was not one of them…

Thanks geo