2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks @ Bulls, Take Two

Okay, the Knicks lost their first game in this odd two game swing to Chicago, but I find it extremely difficult to imagine that Thibs will let the Knicks lose two in a row to his old team. He was apoplectic about their loss on Monday, I imagine his brain would explode if this wasn’t a win, so I’m very confident in the Knicks pulling this one out tonight, in part because I fear for Thibs’ brain and/or skull.

Let’s go get closer to the playoffs, Knicks!

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238 thoughts to “2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks @ Bulls, Take Two”

  1. that dang fake tweet got me pumped for a different starting lineup…

    let’s go elf, you’re due…

  2. that was a nice story jk…that’s funny, i have to imagine that’s happened a lot in her life: excuse me, say that again please – i couldn’t hear anything after i looked at your eyes…

  3. i liked Dead Man a lot, i’ve watched it a couple of times, couldn’t tell much of the plot, but, it’s an odd and enjoyable movie…

  4. Same starters again.

    JK, I’ve been in that situation from time to time interviewing actors who are extremely attractive and/or charismatic — women and men both, honestly — and it always requires extra focus at least a few tones throughout the conversation to keep my questions on track.

  5. JK, love the ScarJo story. I’ve met a lot of famous people, but the only time I couldn’t speak was Charlize Theron maybe 20, 25 years ago. Just unable to get words from my brain to my mouth. There may in fact have been no words in my brain. A lowlight not a highlight.

    Actually, the only other time I was tongue-tied was Rocky Bleier, who showed this Pennsylvania kid his 4 Super Bowl rings. Pretty sure my eyes actually went big and round like in a cartoon or something. Sigh.

    As for Groundhog Day, a rom-com? Holy Christ, people, this is why artists are depressed. It’s a movie about enlightenment. The girl is just a thing he desired, and the point wasn’t about getting the girl, it was about letting go of desire, being unattached to outcome, living in the moment. But pitching a film about how eternal return could lead to despair and thus to the letting go that creates the possibility of enlightenment was easier with a girl as the object of desire as opposed to, say, an NBA championship.

    Rom-com? Jesus. Freaking brilliant movie, all the more brilliant because its profound depth is hid in plain sight.

  6. y’all know Jack Harlow’s got a song called Tyler Herro? Which if my band got signed back in the day would have been called Jeff Hornacek

  7. The girl is just a thing he desired, and the point wasn’t about getting the girl, it was about letting go of desire, being unattached to outcome, living in the moment. But pitching a film about how eternal return could lead to despair and thus to the letting go that creates the possibility of enlightenment was easier with a girl as the object of desire as opposed to, say, an NBA championship.

    Glad I wasn’t the only one who saw the eternal return theme underlying Groundhog’s Day. Also, your point about enjoying the moment and not being attached to outcomes bears great fruit for any fan of Knicks basketball.

  8. Clyde’s suit had me checking the color levels on my tv – and I still loved it.

    I met a British model named Jodie Kidd when we were both 16. She walked in wearing four inch platform heels and was as tall as me to begin with.She was at that point walking in Alexander McQueen shows and regionally famous. She smoked a lot and drank a gallon of rum.

    Most emasculating experience of my life

    Alright, game time!

  9. It seems like MRob doesn’t dunk certain balls that he should, is it just me that sees that?

  10. Nothing but respect for the way Clyde steadfastly refuses to pronounce “Markkanen” correctly even when Kenny Albert does so in the preceding sentence

  11. thenoblefacehumper:
    Nothing but respect for the way Clyde steadfastly refuses to pronounce “Markkanen” correctly even when Kenny Albert does so in the preceding sentence

    It’s Market-ten.

  12. i had the bulls feed last game (i think i have it recording on the bulls feed again tonight) – but, the announcer kept calling him Larry???

  13. it was about letting go of desire, being unattached to outcome, living in the moment.

    None of which is incompatible with a rom com, which it is.

  14. Ephus – Mitch’s screens do suck. I keep meaning to admit it.

    Noel putting in a good shift. It’s sad I have to choose between the two of them. It’s a nasty love triangle.

    Wet Julius tonight, I like it. Ripping that cord

  15. Knicks must’ve heard Thibs complain about their defense for the entire flight to Chicago. They’ve come out committed.

  16. None of which is incompatible with a rom com, which it is.

    Sure, like Citizen Kane was about a guy who loved his sled

  17. Owen: Ephus – Mitch’s screens do suck. I keep meaning to admit it.
    Noel putting in a good shift. It’s sad I have to choose between the two of them. It’s a nasty love triangle.

    Mitch screens are more of a roll than a screen.
    The Robinson/Noel tandem is nice.

  18. A guy I used to be friends with was in a play with ScarJo where he had to kiss her every night. I kissed the woman he was dating at the time so in a way I feel I kissed ScarJo

  19. A guy I used to be friends with was in a play with ScarJo where he had to kiss her every night. I kissed the woman he was dating at the time so in a way I feel I kissed ScarJo

    I played poker with a guy who had shared a hot tub with her, so same.

  20. There I go talking about their better defense and they give up a backdoor play.

  21. DRed:
    A guy I used to be friends with was in a play with ScarJo where he had to kiss her every night.I kissed the woman he was dating at the time so in a way I feel I kissed ScarJo

    I should’ve gone into acting

  22. Brian Cronin:
    I like how Payton was like, “Fuck all of y’all.”

    It’s like he knows when the crows are circling in on his apparent carcass. He springs to life like, “SYKE! I AINT DEAD YET, SUKKAS”.

  23. My two cents on Groundhog Day:

    It is about letting go of desire for physical and carnal pleasure. It is also about letting go of despair and desire for achievement. Phil could become rich, but that did not make him happy. He could become an accomplished pianist without achieving happiness. He could appear all knowing, but that admiration did not make him happy.

    The only thing that turned the page was genuine communion with another person. The fact that person looked like Andie McDowell made it easier to get the movie made. It also made it easier to explain why Phil started down the road of learning everything about her. It was only when he stopped seeking a conquest and instead sought shared childlike joy that he found his way to the the next day.

  24. If we are doing this, I once shared a hot tub with Miss Latvia and her boyfriend. I was only 14 or something, but it was one of the most illuminating experiences of my entire life.

  25. I can’t say ScarJo wouldn’t have got me – never met her, don’t know. But she’s one of those typical tiny Hollywood people. Charlize was a tall, lithe goddess. I had no chance. Funny thing is it was at a party for a movie that was supposed to be Teri Hatcher’s breakout, but not a single man there had five minutes for her.

  26. Best stretch of the season for Obi. Hits a 3. Hits a 2 when run off the line. Defends the P&R dive and recovers to the 3 point line. Defends Lavine on the perimeter into a contested miss on a 3.

  27. As long as the arc on his shot remains so comically high I will never, ever believe an Obi jumper is going in. I can only be pleasantly surprised!

  28. I hate these free throw commercials so much. It’s so awkward.

    Sure, like Citizen Kane was about a guy who loved his sled

    Protagonist moves to small town, meets someone they are incompatible with, gets stuck in small town, makes change to self (usually a change in valuation of some kind), is now compatible with that person, HEA. You don’t think it’s a rom com because you think rom coms are trash and you value the film, but that’s about you, not about the film.

  29. You don’t think it’s a rom com because you think rom coms are trash and you value the film, but that’s about you, not about the film.

    Not really, no. I like rom-coms. Groundhog Day is just considerably more than that. Squeezing it into the smallest box devalues what they achieved with it. I hate it when people don’t value the thing because it isn’t ostentatiously The Thing. Anne Tyler is infinitely better in writing about families than Jonathan Franzen, for example, but doesn’t get the same respect.

  30. Great rebound by Mitch. Now we get to see HIM miss two free throws.

    Edit: I was wrong, hooray! Knicks seem really cold right now, but Mitch came through.

  31. It’s a little strange to watch a Knicks team that has at least one high impact defender on the floor at all times

  32. ephus:
    To go from a great film to a laughable one, Markkanen has Christopher Atkins’ hair from The Blue Lagoon.

    I have a fondness for Blue Lagoon.

  33. I hope people see that if Thibs has 10 decent, healthy players, he’ll play them all. I’d like to see him play Frank, too, but can’t complain about the rotation tonight.

  34. My comp for Markannen was Billy from the Karate Kid but that one is better.

    Mitch has had some trouble finishing up close in traffic when he can’t dunk the ball.

  35. Owen: Mitch has had some trouble finishing up close in traffic when he can’t dunk the ball.

    I’m starting to get worried

  36. Frank has to be better than BulLOCK at this point. What happened to his J? Man.

  37. That was an example of Mitch’s gravity there on that Payton layup. They didn’t want to leave him.

    I love you Mitch.

  38. I feel for you guys about getting tongue-tied/starry-eyed around super attractive women. In my undergraduate years, I really struggled to talk to such girls. I also figured that all the really striking ones were taken, so was afraid to approach.

    However, some sort of switch went off, and in grad school I was asking girls out all over the place with a high success rate. I landed dates with girls I met running at the track (actually did that twice), waiting for an elevator, at the checkout line at Kroger, etc. I found that there are lots of available attractive women out there, though I do realize that the Scarlet Jo’s of the world have an ethereal quality that might make anyone melt.

    I literally approached my future wife on the street during a class change and asked her out on the spot.

    Oh yeah, the Knicks…looks like the bi-weekly good Payton game.

  39. I found that there are lots of available attractive women out there, though I do realize that the Scarlet Jo’s of the world have an ethereal quality that might make anyone melt.

    I did eventually get over it! Meeting Charlize at 24 was a little different from having Miss India offer me her phone number at age 34.

  40. A bonehead inbound pass by RJ just before the half, leading to an easy layup for the Bulls.

  41. Overall, that was an excellent first half for the Knicks. When Payton is hot, this team is pretty much unbeatable. It’s just that he is very rarely hot.

  42. Mitch destroyed Gafford there and I can’t believe they didn’t call a foul, esp given all the fouls that do get called on him.

    They seem to be making a big effort to get Mitch the ball today.

    Oof Mitch got beaten bad

  43. jazzfunk:
    Have a personally signed photo of Morganna The Kissing Bandit – does that count?

    I hear she’s not making any public appearances anymore. But she does reply to her fan letters. That’s nice.

  44. If Mitch keeps mixing in solid screens with slips, he is going to get more dunk opportunities. Teams scouting the Knicks will know they cannot just use drop coverage, because the ball handler is getting wide open looks.

  45. I sense a story here. Do tell?

    Mostly an object lesson that women don’t care about what men care about. (Stereotype alert!) I was in India for work, and my host brought me to a diamond gala the first night. I didn’t have appropriate clothes, so I was basically in a nice shirt and jeans and everyone was black tie and evening gowns. My host has to press the flesh. I’m feeling pretty uncomfortable and slightly jet-lagged, so I sit at an empty table that has my name card. People file in, start finding their places, then next thing you know, Amitav Bachan and Shar Rukh Khan pull up chairs as my table is quickly surrounded by a mass of photographers. Now I’m feeling REALLY out of place…especially because I don’t know who Amitav is, and only am dimly aware of Khan being some kind of movie star.

    My host is seated at the table behind me, so I lean over and say, hey, you should probably be here instead of me. He agrees, we switch…and now I’m sitting next to Miss India. Did I mention I also had an incipient cold sore because of stress and the long flights? Couldn’t get any worse, so I just let it all go – unattached to outcome. Decide to find out what Miss India is all about. Have a real conversation, ask a lot of questions, make her laugh, mostly intentionally. At the end of the night she asks how long I’m in town (Mumbai), gives me her number, says call her. I do not, because I am married. Then I see her on the last night at a dinner party, and her boyfriend glowers at me the whole night. She told him about me?? I say hello, but don’t try to talk to her, given the situation. Instead I focus on the lovely cosmetics heiress next to me. So Miss India comes over, stands between us (rude!), and asks why i didn’t call her. In front of her boyfriend! At that point my host intervenes and prevents an international incident.

    All because, as you say, just talk to the beautiful woman, dummy!

  46. I’m just down on Mitch. I see the good he does but there needs to be more. I just feel like he’s a hair slow on defense this year. And he’s just not that high of a flier anymore.

  47. KJG:
    I’m just down on Mitch. I see the good he does but there needs to be more. I just feel like he’s a hair slow on defense this year.And he’s just not that high of a flier anymore.

    I think its possible he’s a little injured. I also wonder what toll playing more minutes is taking on his body. Please be patient. He’s still a very productive player.

  48. Do you think she was trying to make her boyfriend jealous, though?

    No, I think she was genuinely like, who is this fucking guy who doesn’t call me? I’m Miss Fucking India! I don’t wear a wedding ring, and I was clearly interested in her (I mean, yes, Miss Fucking India), so in her mind she met a guy who didn’t chase her and wasn’t happy about that.

    I think. Women are complex, man.

  49. At that point my host intervenes and prevents an international incident.

    Bravo, Rama. We are not worthy.

  50. Yeah rama that’s an awesome story!

    Maybe it’s a nitpick, but whenever I see the Knicks hit the desk for a ball scramble, they rarely come up with it. I’mma need them to claw a bit harder at that ball when it hits the ground.

  51. Looks like the Mavs are gonna stop the bleeding at least for one night. Oh, well. Can’t lose ’em all, I guess.

  52. To bring this thread full circle, I suspect that Mitch is feeling the despair of Groundhog Day. In his first season, he gladly took on any role to make the roster & crack the rotation. They told him to play D, dunk and rebound. And nothing else. He did it.

    Second season, same instructions with an emphasis of avoiding fouls. His offense was record setting, to the small extent he was allowed to have an offense. The Knicks guaranteed his 3rd season at a salary just above the minimum.

    In his third season, Mitch is being asked to do the same things. He just is not bringing the same fervor. I wish that he would attack the ball like he did last season.

  53. rama is cautiously optimistic: No, I think she was genuinely like, who is this fucking guy who doesn’t call me? I’m Miss Fucking India! I don’t wear a wedding ring, and I was clearly interested in her (I mean, yes, Miss Fucking India), so in her mind she met a guy who didn’t chase her and wasn’t happy about that.

    I think. Women are complex, man.

    Nice!

  54. Clyde seems to genuinely like this team. That “yeah” as they cut to Bill and Wally was funny.

  55. Rama, nice story!

    Seems like if you’d just replied, “Because I’m married,” that that might have disarmed her. But given her apparent ego, maybe not. That whole scene must have been pretty emasculating for her boyfriend, though!

  56. Look, let’s just be glad that the guys from Tag Team are back in the spotlight and making money from these Geico ads…

  57. KJG: He got excited and came up short. We’ve all been there.

    If I was drinking something I would’ve done a spittake there…

  58. I’m all for the Knicks trying to win and sneak into the play in games but if they blow this game I’m all on board for the tank lol.

  59. Interior D has not been good lately – looks like we’re not staying in front of the Bulls on their moves to the basket. They’re throwing hitches and jukes that are creating enough space to get good visibility to the basket – they’re giving the Knick wings/guards the slip.

  60. Is that the Geico where they try to say Quinoa? I love that ad as much as I hate that Draft Kings ad.

    Knicks are going to blow this and I can’t believe it

  61. Toppin’s 2nd stint on the floor tonight was almost comical. That said, I’d be very intrigued to see him after a whole NBA-regimen offseason program.

  62. The good news: Randle drew doubles on two consecutive trips, and passed to wide open teammates for uncontested 3s.

    The bad news: Payton took the second one. He missed.

  63. I know Thaddeus is crafty, but if Mitch is gonna build on his defensive rep he needs to own that matchup without fouling.

  64. That Robinson rebound was the biggest play of the game so far. Leads to a 7 point game.

  65. There is no excuse to give up a 3 on a basic chest pass from the top of the key to the wing. I’m just not buying it.

  66. Knicks have dominated basically the entire game, the Bulls are the ones who have no business winning this game.

  67. ***Robinson has accounted for a few boards he wont get credit for***

    You’ve changed. You used to say everything that happened on the court was reflected in the boxscore. Sell out.

  68. The Knicks were desperately saying, “Please take this game” and the Bulls were, like, “Nah.”

  69. The Knicks are 11-22 from 3 and the Bulls are 6 -35 from 3. If the Bulls shoot around their average they’re up handily even with our hot shooting. On the other hand, we probably should have won the last game, so whatever.

  70. DRed:
    The Knicks are 11-22 from 3 and the Bulls are6 -35 from 3.If the Bulls shoot around their average they’re up handily even with our hot shooting.On the other hand, we probably should have won the last game, so whatever.

    Still waiting for reversion to the mean…

  71. Payton looks thrilled with the W

    He’s just trying to come up with some good tweets for his burner account

  72. I think you can build a grocery list of team needs for them to take the next step based on this game alone:
    -better ballhandling wings.
    -at least one excellent passer from guard or wing. Being able to see or create passing lanes will make life easier for everyone on offense. I know we all would love that passing point guard who can shoot to help space the floor. I just think that a boost to team passing will make offensive execution more intelligent.
    -off-guards who can deny dribble penetration.

  73. The Infamous Cdiggy:
    I think you can build a grocery list of team needs for them to take the next step based on this game alone:
    -better ballhandling wings.
    -at least one excellent passer from guard or wing. Being able to see or create passing lanes will make life easier for everyone on offense. I know we all would love that passing point guard who can shoot to help space the floor. I just think that a boost to team passing will make offensive execution more intelligent.
    -off-guards who can deny dribble penetration.

    And how about some more shooters?

  74. Wally actually citing PER as an “important statistic” in support of IQ.

    I mean, it’s a start…kind of…

  75. I’ve watched a few Suns games this season and Frank Kaminsky is actually playing pretty well.

    It’s so weird. They cut him, he signs elsewhere, gets cut again and he returns to the Suns and plays the best he has in quite a while!

  76. You almost prefer we lose games like this, it only reinforces Thibs’ tight merc-heavy rotation

    Interesting point. You really might be on to something there. He does seem like he needs to be forced into stuff, right?

  77. 1) Denzel Valentine an early nominee for the Jimmer Award.

    2) Groundhog Day is definitely a romcom. Just because it transcends the genre for some of you, it is based on the following formula: two people, dialectally opposed, naturally dislike each other (or can’t have each other) > they are thrust together: one’s success depends on the other > they realize it’s not something about the other they dislike, but something about themself > they fall in love. (A “buddy movie” is a platonic romcom, btw, which I’m sure Alan will acknowledge since he loves Midnight Run:)

    3) I have lived in LA long enough to have met/worked with/interacted with a lot of so-called “famous” people. Most of them are much more “plain” in real life, when they are offscreen or what have you. Many are wallflowers, as forgettable as Jimmer award winners of season past. But one time I walked into a room and it was like JK described. I didn’t even know who it was at first, I just sensed a bright light sitting in the corner and I was a brainless moth fluttering over just to be near it. She started talking to me and I wasn’t hearing her at all, just my thoughts saying “holy shit, is this a dream??”. The funny thing about her was that, unlike most others, she was actually more striking in real life than on screen, and, though a recognizable actress, she wasn’t an “A-lister” or someone who is widely considered among the pantheon of Hollywood sex-symbols. (And, normally, I’m rarely even drawn to white women at all Scarlett Johansson is kind of ho-hum to me when she’s on screen, but, granted, I haven’t met her in the real world). But with this woman, I can imagine the casting director the day she walked into her first audition instantly forgetting everybody else they saw that day. Like when Dick Shawn auditioned for Bialystok and Bloom and they declared on the spot “that’s our Hitler!”.

  78. Randle now shooting 39.6 from three. He ain’t a merc anymore; he’s either staying or the Knicks will get real assets for him.

  79. C’mon Donnie, that’s not how the game is played, leaving the name out….

    But I love that you’re a gentleman who never tells…

  80. In terms of the attractive women discussion, never met a beautiful famous actress but I usually have no problems talking and getting along with beautiful women. Problem is I always wind up in the friend zone lol.

  81. Now that I think about it, this is a topic that could really spin out of control in a bad way. Kind of like the Knicks season.

    All I want is good process along with a good outcome and I am not sure we saw that tonight. Playing Rivers over Frank right now seems a little insane, no matter how bad 5-9 is in practice.

    Also, against the charges that I will stan for Mitch no matter what, guilty. But he did a good job out there. He just looks like he is getting pinballed and mauled a bit inside a lot more than I can remember. It’s like Thibs has told him to be more like Taj of old.

  82. The end of this game was eerily similar to the Atlanta win, right?

    But yeah, as noted earlier (Z-Man, I think?) a split seemed highly probable and at least they got the split.

  83. Brian Cronin: Interesting point. You really might be on to something there. He does seem like he needs to be forced into stuff, right?

    I don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, it’s boring and annoying watching Bullock and Payton do their thing. On the other, he’s telling the young guys that you have to play better to get more minutes, which might help them play better. I mean, telling Obi that he needs to play better and smarter on D to get more minutes may actually be the best thing for him.

  84. All I want is good process along with a good outcome and I am not sure we saw that tonight. Playing Rivers over Frank right now seems a little insane, no matter how bad 5-9 is in practice.

    It’s a fascinating question. I think that playing Frank and Knox would make the team worse, but could possibly help the future of the team, but the real future of the team is RJ, Mitch and IQ (and, by default, Obi), so as long as those three (kind of four) guys are playing well (and often), does it matter that you’re punting on Knox and Frank and playing guys with no future with the team like Burks and Bullock (and possibly Rivers, depending on whether they even pick up his option for next season) over them? I really don’t know what the answer is, but I do worry that Thibs’ reasoning might be more based around getting to the #10 seed than anything else, which legit does concern me.

  85. Back in the late 80s while working in retail I waited on Lena Olin just after seeing The Unbearable Lightness of Being. Definitely tongue-tied. She was very, very beautiful and really nice to boot. Also sat in a group with Julia Stiles at a club for about 10 minutes but had no interaction beyond the introduction but she seemed nice enough.

  86. I find that extreme beauty and attraction is often a matter of context. This is true in movies and in real life. But that feeling of being dumbstruck by beauty in a conversational setting is something else.

  87. I think it’s fair to assume that Frank is getting outplayed in practice. And if he’s getting outplayed by journeymen like Payton and Rivers, it’s hard to imagine him having a future with this team.

  88. It’s kind of funny to think about how the narrative was how good Thibs would be for Frank, right? Or how much Thibs would love Frank. And instead, Thibs is just outright benching the dude.

  89. As an aside, Daryl fucking Morey, people. Dude took a good but seriously flawed Philly team and in one fucking offseason was, like, “Okay, fixed this, that, and the other thing” and now the team is flying high, 16-6 and first place in the Eastern Conference. Dang, Morey! Now I want a show like one of those Gordon Ramsey shows where Ramsey fixes up a failing restaurant and/or hotel, only with Morey just going from franchise to franchise, fixing their shit.

  90. It’s like he knows when the crows are circling in on his apparent carcass. He springs to life like, “SYKE! I AINT DEAD YET, SUKKAS”.

    who knows what may be going on in elf’s life, maybe home schooling is kicking his ass, maybe he’s got some health thing going on…

    seems though elf may need a little team pressure to be more offensively aggressive…like julius pointing out the fact that the team sucks offensively while you’re in, during a post game interview…

    if he’s out on the floor he’s got to go at the rim, otherwise it makes no sense to have him on the court…

    in today’s nba – it would seem your starting point guard needs to hoist up at least 10 shot attempts a game…if 8 of them are at the rim, oh well…he’s gotta try to score though…thibs needs to have a quicker hook for him…

  91. And Morey somehow made Tobias Harris into a really good player.

    Ok another front, the Heat are 7-14 and in danger of missing the playoffs. When was the last time a Finals team failed to make the playoffs the next season? The LeBron Cavs after he left for Miami?

  92. yeah, rivers is a thibs guy…thibs is a doc rivers guy…

    rivers is like a good spot player for when nothing else is working…

    we need a serious upgrade at the 2 spot…we’re getting very little from bullock, burks or rivers…

  93. When IQ is the last line of defense on the break, you can have confidence . . . that an intentional foul is coming.

    IQ needs to learn how to take them kyle lowry charges…

    he shouldn’t have fouled there…take one for the team…

  94. Z-man: I don’t know how to feel about it. On one hand, it’s boring and annoying watching Bullock and Payton do their thing. On the other, he’s telling the young guys that you have to play better to get more minutes, which might help them play better. I mean, telling Obi that he needs to play better and smarter on D to get more minutes may actually be the best thing for him.

    Yeah I think this is definitely fair. The placeholders (Bullock & Payton) were part of building that big initial lead in the 1st quarter and the young bench let it slip. Being able to perform/produce every game is the next step for young guys like IQ.

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