Knicks Morning News (2019.05.16)

It’d be interesting to see what would happen if he withdrew from the draft and then in September tried to sign overseas- I’m guessing the NBA would put pressure on the China/Euro leagues not to sign him (and I’m sure neither would want to cross the NBA- not even for Zion) if there’s not some sort of rule to prevent it already.

I would imagine he just goes back to Duke and let’s Nike keep paying his grandmother or however it works there.

Zion refusing to play for anyone would be bad for the league. Even if it helps us, I hope it doesn’t happen. I don’t want to win that way.

You think any Broncos or Giants felt even a smidge of regret when Elway and Eli won them Super Bowls?

Also, who do you mean by the league? The cartel of 30 owners? They’d be mad, sure. But is it really bad for the people who watch the league?

You know what was bad for the league? Wasting 12 years of Chris Paul and Anthony Davis in New Orleans. Getting Zion to a real team – and I don’t even care if it’s us, frankly, just get him out of New Orleans – is *great* for the league.

I think I feel good about either trading the #3 pick for a vet, or trying to trade down in some way to draft Brandon Clarke.

#3 is almost certainly going to be RJ Barrett, and if KD/Kyrie are coming, it just really doesn’t make sense to take a guy whose greatest strength is on-ball passing and scoring and who has questionable defensive aptitude. I am actually higher on RJ than others here, but we need to maximize the KD/Kyrie window, and RJ doesn’t do that. I would be in favor of something like #3 + DSJ for Covington + #11 +#43 – I think that’s a fair trade since Covington is good, the right age (28), and his contract is an asset. Covington is not really in the right age window for Minny and they might want to reboot with their new GM/POBO. It’s conceivable.

You could possibly still get Brandon Clarke at #11 (that’s where he is on the tankathon mock draft). A Mitch/Clarke/Covington/Durant – ish front court rotation would be frightening defensively.

If something like that trade is not available then I wonder whether Atlanta would consider packaging 8+ Taurean Prince for #3? Then we would draft Clarke at #8.

Brandon Clarke is really just something else statistically. Literally the 2nd highest PER and BPM in NCAA history. Now he is a junior of course, and BPM doesn’t seem to have the same specificity for great pros once you get into the upperclassmen. If you look at BPMs >15 over the last 10 years or so, if you do it as a freshman, you’re probably going to be amazing –> Zion, AD, KAT, and JJJ are the only ones that have done that. As sophomores there are only Ethan Haps and someone named Xavier Tillman from Michigan state this year. As juniors (what Clarke is, and Clarke is actually older than most juniors), you have Clarke, Oladipo, and Gorgui Dieng. As seniors you have a completely different class of players –> Kaminsky, Thornwell, Denzel Valentine, Delon Wright, and Gary Clarke.

That said, basically no one in NCAA history has put up the kind of efficiency, block, low TO etc numbers that Clarke has. He totally seems like a switch defender if necessary, and the ability to guard probably 1-4 (1-5 against small ball lineups) AND be an elite rim protector — that’s pretty rare. If he shows he can actually hit FTs and 18 footers consistently in workouts (ie. he may have some ability to play with a traditional center like Mitch without constraining floor spacing too much) then I would be totally fine with drafting him at #3. would prefer trade-down of course but #3 wouldn’t be too high for me.

This front office isn’t going to spend a #3 pick on a non-volume scorer like Clarke. Their preferences for young players like Mudiay, DSJ, and Knox tells you what they place premium value upon.

It’s very different trying to fill out a roster when you already have KD and Kyrie than when you have nothing.

I’m a Brandon Clarke stan if there ever was one, but even I wouldn’t spend the #3 on Clarke. If the market says Clarke is in the 8-10 range, why shouldn’t we cash out picking Barrett at #3 and then getting Clarke and something else from someone who wants desperately Barrett?

Also: while the KD-to-the-Knicks might be a done deal by the time the draft rolls around, there’s not gonna be any ink on the paper. It’s just malpractice drafting for fit before having the players in tow.

That’s why I advocate drafting Barrett even if I’m not enthused. You have to game the market.

the NBA is an association with a vested interest in competitive balance.

This league has the least amount of competitive balance of the four major sports in America. Even the English Premier League has more competitive balance. The NBA is La Liga/Serie A level unbalanced.

What they care about is competitive valuation of their franchises. As long as there is a lottery, any franchise can be the best. Ergo, this allows them to get enormous entry fees and increases the valuation of every team in the league.

None of this benefits the fans or the labor (or the taxpayers, whose money is ciphoned away from the municipalities to cover the operating expenses of these teams). This is a cartel.

Note that I say none of this to get Zion to the Knicks. He can go to Memphis or Charlotte if that’s what he wants. But he should be able to do what he wants. Fuck the league.

For the record I’d be very content drafting Barrett at 3. seems like a great kid, works hard, competes his ass off. Steve Nash, who would know these things, says he is a really advanced passer for his age:

RJ Barrett (*yes, is my godson) is a next level playmaker at his age, 18, and size. Makes every read/pass. This is one skill that is easier in many respects due to the rules at the nba level but so damn valuable. Blown away at the reads and deliveries he made (sic) repetatively.

I mean, it IS valuable to have multiple playmakers on the floor at the same time. Maybe he wouldn’t be ready his rookie year, but one can imagine him stretching out his playmaking skills on the 2nd unit with, say, Frank, Dotson, and Luke Kornet on the floor.

You know what was bad for the league? Wasting 12 years of Chris Paul and Anthony Davis in New Orleans. Getting Zion to a real team – and I don’t even care if it’s us, frankly, just get him out of New Orleans – is *great* for the league.

Seeing as the knicks have been the most mismanaged team in the league for twenty years now, if the NBA is looking for a real team to plant Zion in, the knicks would be last on the list, probably even behind New Orleans, who at least has an excuse for their struggles.

Question:
Does anybody really believe Garland can pull a Kyrie? Meaning play a few games in college and still be good in the pros? Incredibly small sample size, and I haven’t really seem him play, but statistically he fits the profile that we hope DSJ can be. DSJ may pass more, not necessarily better- but again, I haven’t seen Garland. Any thoughts?

Seeing as the knicks have been the most mismanaged team in the league for twenty years now, if the NBA is looking for a real team to plant Zion in, the knicks would be last on the list, probably even behind New Orleans, who at least has an excuse for their struggles.

Yeah, man, I read the deadspin article, too. It was bullshit clickbait, not the kind of thing you should be regurgitating in a forum like this.

Sure, the Knicks are probably in the bottom half of the 30 teams that should have him, based on merit. But holy shit are you dead wrong about them being last on the list and behind New Orleans. The Knicks have never been gifted one of the greatest players of all time and made him obscure for 6 years. New Orleans has already done that twice! There is literally nothing worse than taking a talent like Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, or Zion Williamson and burying them.

Like I said, I don’t care if the Knicks get him. I don’t care if a large market gets him. I just don’t want him to be made irrelevant for 6 years until he demands a trade and everyone drags his name through the mud. He’s better off getting that out of the way now so he can get on with his career.

with garland… there’s a lot of volatility in his shooting numbers because he’s absolutely not a 50% 3p shooter… or shooting 58% from 2p land…. so if you regress his numbers to more sane levels he’s probably something like a late lotto talent when healthy…. kyrie had similar numbers but the difference is that his were significantly better and was more well regarded coming in….

there’s some history of players missing a lot of college games who also wind up missing a lot of pro games also… you see that with kyrie and i bet that’ll happen with darius even if he is as talented as ppl think he is…

dsj is better…. he’s not the shooter that garland is but he’s better at literally everything else…

Yeah, man, I read the deadspin article, too. It was bullshit clickbait, not the kind of thing you should be regurgitating in a forum like this.

I have never read a deadspin article in my life, sorry. I don’t even know what it is.

I based my comment on what I’ve known about the knicks, intimately, from 1988-2016. Granted, my interest has tapered off recently, so I could be wrong and the Knicks may have turned a managerial corner and be headed on the road to legitimacy, but if the Dolan knicks can get right, then the New Orleans Pelicans can get right too. Crying on behalf of the league for Zion just seems silly to me.

Clippers adviser Jerry West has reportedly tabbed Morant as the best talent in the draft — better even than Williamson.

It’s a good thing that Mr. Logo is slipping right before this free agency

Brook Lopez and Luke Kornet aren’t going to waste like 10 possessions every game trying to make heroball moves from the elbow and then shooting fade-away 15 footers because they can’t overpower Marcus Smart

it’s not useful to talk about what new orleans deserves. when new orleans had chris paul, they had entirely different owners (shinn and then the league) and front offices (jeff bower and a staff that is i believe is 100 percent gone). The front office in the anthony davis era was run by dell demps, who is also gone. and that owner, tom benson, has since died. gayle benson is even replacing mickey loomis as coo. there is roughly zero continuity between those teams and this one, so it really doesn’t make any sense to forecast managerial gloom other than the endemic pitfalls of being in a weak market.

Nah…. they just privatize profits and socialize their loses to the stupid public (too big to fail) when they bollix things up taking outrageous positions to maximize profit. A nice gig if you can get it! 🙂 🙂

Someone here understands Wall St. 🙂

Can I assume you aren’t a fan of central banks either?

If you understand the full role of central banking, you’ll understand how they contribute to the boom/bust cycle, back door wealth transfer, and the enormous wealth gap. Then you are well on your way to understanding how the economy and world really works.

I don’t see it with Barrett. Most of his highlights are shooting 3’s, which he sucks at, and throwing up contested layups as he struggles to get a clean look at the hoop. I don’t think those shots go in at the next level when players are bigger, stronger, and faster. He’s a good passer out of the pick n roll but doesn’t look quick enough to beat his man 1 on 1. He looks like a bust.

that is the most on brand strat post in fucking history; beyond meat could spend $100 billion and 50 years and couldn’t create as convincing a calling card

that is the most on brand strat post in fucking history; beyond meat could spend $100 billion and 50 years and couldn’t create as convincing a calling card

I’m not even sure which one you are talking about, but consider it irrelevant anyway.

1. Jerry West’s opinion should carry a lot of weight considering his record of success at every level.

2. It took me about 10 years to undo all the wrong things I learned in college and from the financial press so I could actually begin understanding our financial system correctly from reading Austrian economics books.

2. It took me about 10 years to undo all the wrong things I learned in college and from the financial press so I could actually begin understanding our financial system correctly from reading Austrian economics books.

The record for most on brand Strat post ever only lasted like 15 minutes

I would feel better about Steve Nash talking up a college prospect’s passing/court vision if that college prospect weren’t his godson.

I would feel worse if R.J. didn’t have a 23.5 Assist Percentage. That’s pretty high for a wing, no?

I think RJ will be just fine.
Good assist numbers.
Good finishing #s in the paint – 64.4% at the rim per hoopmath.
Definitely mitigating factor = how terrible Duke’s shooters were. Their best 3 point shooter was O’Connell who shot about 2 per game at 37.5%. Everyone else who shot even 70 total 3 pointers was at 33.8% (Zion) or less. For a slashing wing-type, that paint was definitely congested.

As comparison – rim FG% their last year in college (recently top-5 drafted wing-attacking-types)
Jayson Tatum = 62.1%
Markelle Fultz = 61.6
Josh Jackson = 69%
Donovan Mitchell – 55.9%
Brandon Ingram 58.8

His rebounding isn’t as bad as advertised. The dude is pretzel weak, plays on the perimeter on offense, and roamed the paint on defense helping inept Knicks defenders by trying to block shots. That often took him away from the boards. As he gets stronger he’ll be able to bang more and his role may change.

^ I mean, come on, this is a classic.

I agree. Both Lopez and Kornet have cracked 0.5+ BPM at some point, so until Porzingis shows he can do that it’s not a fair comparison to them.

BPM was a good faith effort by some very smart people to capture the value and/or productivity of players. Like all the other “all in one models” it’s missing important things, underrates or overrates certain things in certain situations, underrates or overrates certain combinations of things, can’t isolate skill from role, can’t adjust for the fact that teammates and system have an impact on individual stats etc…

So depending on the specific combination of skills, role, system and teammates of player “X” it could value him fairly accurately (most cases) or at the end of each curve do a terrible job.

The very best comparison is speed figures in horse racing.

A speed figure will tell you how fast a horse ran. In the vast majority of cases that’s a great place to start an appraisal of a horse even though there will be occasional inaccuracies. The problem is it doesn’t tell you you if the horse was wide losing ground, on the rail, in a good path, in a bad path, what impact the pace might have had, was he blocked, out of the gate slowly etc.. On occasion there are extreme “trips”. Those render the speed figure almost useless unless you subjectively adjust for everything that’s missing or wrong about it. You’ll never wind up with a perfect subjective appraisal and there will be disagreements among experts. But everyone that does it is better off being approximately right than precisely wrong.

^ I mean, come on, this is a classic.

When people were panicking because Robinson wasn’t rebounding well on the defensive side early last year, I was the first one to say “He’s got to get stronger. He’s also trying to block every single shot in his area and it’s taking him away from the boards. Don’t worry about it. As soon as he figures it out, gets more selective, and starts getting stronger his defensive rebounding will be fine”. A few weeks later (way ahead of what I expected) he already started figuring it out.

You are right I should have panicked over what the boxscore said instead of understanding why such a tall, long, athletic player wasn’t rebounding well and then figuring if he could change that. smh

2. It took me about 10 years to undo all the wrong things I learned in college and from the financial press so I could actually begin understanding our financial system correctly from reading Austrian economics books.

i understand. i was young once too. i remember turning 85 and first encountering rothbard’s incompleteness proof that no fractional reserve banking system could issue its own fiat currency with self destructing, and it seemed so utterly convincing i even bought a hayek pin, flush with the endorphins of revelation. but, young man, will learn that age discards revelation for wisdom earned hard. after a brief and humiliating flirtation with the fiscal theory of the price level in my early 120s (that quite obviously i’d rather not speak about in great detail), i finally came to see the youthful folly of all these subcentenarians hyped up on jamba juice, peering wide eyed into their little partial equilibrium windows and running out screaming that the world must know the whole house was really just a bathroom all along. now i chuckle every time i see that pin, which i have come to use primarily as a little elf to my catheter when the old woodford reserve is churning through a little high on the old viscosity meter if you know what i mean. just last year i sold the last of my bullion to an endearingly frantic 93 year old who had just come from a peak lithium meeting and was quite concerned that the recent devaluation of the mongolian togrog would finally put and end to the great cenozoic malinvestment ponzi era.

@48

They made a lot of mistakes and potentially set us back a couple of years, but they salvaged the situation well enough to have a chance to come out of it smelling like a rose. Players around the league seem to like Perry and Fizdale a lot. I suspect agents also like Mills (because he overpays their players lol). That may be the one talent they have that most of our previous management didn’t have. Players like them.

it’s definitely interesting that perry and mills have gone out of their way to avoid the press this week. although this wouldn’t be odd under most dolan knick regimes it’s not really the perry/mills m.o. i guess it’s obvious that they are considering all options either way, but this seems to emphasize the point.

@52 I would try to get him to play like Ben Simmons until he can prove to have an effective jumper. He is better with the ball in his hands, but settles for the easy jumper way too much. Give him a cookie every time he drives to the rim, and a smack on the hand when he jacks up a step-back jumper.

You are right I should have panicked over what the boxscore said instead of understanding why such a tall, long, athletic player wasn’t rebounding well and then figuring if he could change that. smh

I said it with love, my man. I like your brand.

@59

I said it with love, my man. I like your brand.

So many people here don’t like me I lose track of who I have a decent rapport with and who I don’t. It’s hard to read “intent” in some comments. 🙂

I get it. I’m a contrarian guy that sometimes talks about experiences or successes in other areas to gain some credibility at what I am saying here. None of that makes me endearing. I’m not really here to be the most liked and I’m definitely not here to be the most despised. I don’t need the aggravation. I’m here to discuss basketball and bring something to the table other than what everyone else here already thinks. I’d rather point out where I think the consensus here is wrong and maybe the mainstream coaches and players are right than say nothing or just nodding my head in agreement when I do agree.

i would dissuade rj from shooting 3s unless he’s wide open…. he should be developing his game inside out anyway but that will dramatically help out his efficiency because his 2p game should be ok to start…

that’s if his inside scoring translates… which i don’t think is a complete given… but is reasonable to believe that it will…

the worrisome part is that fizdale is probably not the coach to dissuade anyone from shooting 3s….

I sort of admire Strat’s resolve in the face of a tempest of posts mocking him almost daily, even if I don’t agree with him that often.

Barrett. Well, if the Knicks keep the pick and he’s there, they really do need to take him. I’m lukewarm. If KD and Robin pledge to come here, they probably trade the pick anyway. How many ball-dominant players do you need?

I really don’t want Kyrie Caveat Emptor Irving, but I guess he’s part of the KD package.

Strat, I don’t dislike you at all, but you need to have a thick skin if you’re going to be a contrarian. It’s kind of part of the deal. You’re a valued commenter here and you seem to be a nice person. I would think everybody here feels the same way. We’re a snarky bunch of cynics here though, so you’re gonna have to endure the occasional barb when you drop some choice Strat-isms. That is the price of contrarianism.

I would bet you are the opposite Myers/Briggs personality from me. I’m INFP. You are likely ESTJ. Am I correct? I only say this because your brain seems to work completely opposite from the way mine works. Which is totally fine! We’re just different. You keep doing you, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

@51…i just want to say – i believe you…

i once hit a man in dearborn michigan. a hit and run. i hit him and kept on going. i don’t know if he’s alive or dead, but i’m sorry.

not only that – even if it happened at noon on the corner of schaefer and michigian – i totally believe you would get away with it…no doubt, if i ever got caught in a bad “storm” – i’d want you there holding the umbrella…

The very best comparison is speed figures in horse racing.

Strat, I figured out your director comparison. You’re the M. Night Shyamalan of Knickerblogger posters. You create a fantastical premise and explore its full range of logical possibilities to its most absurd conclusion in the pursuit of proving a point that only makes sense within the parameters of the fantastical premise you invented. While Shyamalan invents water allergic alien invaders, plant pheromones capable of triggering mass human suicides, or imaginary mermaids that appear in motel swimming pools to provide a fantasy narrative for moralizing on the state of human affairs you use similar literary devices like horse racing analogies to disregard the whatever basketball metrics that don’t conform with your own subjective impressions about the state of the NBA. And the problem with this Shayamalanian approach is the same one which plagues most of his films: namely that your argument makes absolutely zero sense to anyone who isn’t willing to take the leap of faith in accepting the ridiculous premise you’re establishing as foundational to your entire argument.

However, it will be almost entirely due to the whims of two of the strangest and most unreadable NBA stars in recent memory and have pretty much no relationship to anything ownership, management, or the coaching staff has actually done to make it happen.

Welcome to the modern NBA.

Going back to the stretch 5 issue, these playoffs have really reinforced my thinking that Luke Kornet is a bit of an underrated player for us moving forward. He already plays two-thirds of his minutes at center for us, has a very good RDPM, and is a 36% shooter from downtown. I think he could really benefit from finally playing with two ball-handlers in KD and Kyrie who draw attention and can consistently swing the ball his way.

I laughed out loud when I read Austrian economics.

Kornet is a perfectly useful NBA player. He can shoot and block shots.

All major free agent signings are based on the whims of mecurial superstars.

Lebron wanting to leave Cleveland the first and second time. Melo wanting to force a trade to get out of Denver where he had a pretty good thing going. Chris Paul wanting out of NO and then out of The Clippers later on. Kyrie out of Cleveland and now Boston. Heck, lets take it back to Shaq out of Orlando where he had gone to the Finals. Kawhi wanting out of SA, the best franchise in the league for the last 20 years. I could go on and on and on. Superstars want to dictate their own terms for living, success, narrative, etc.

The fact that The Knicks are even in the position to possibly nab 2 of these stars is a pretty amazing thing when you consider their cap situation the last 5 years. The fact that they could sign these 2 guys and not lose any of their young players or picks is even more amazing. The fact that they could whiff in free agency and keep rebuilding (they have a plan B to fall back on) is pretty amazing.

Maybe its just more of the same star chasing. Maybe they trade away all their picks and young players for AD and max out their cap space on a big 3 and then they don’t mesh or get hurt…maybe it can go wrong. But the Knicks are in a good spot right now. The best they’ve been in a very long time.

I also like this situation better than STAT/MELO/Chandler…cause Kyrie, Durant and AD are all better than those 3 and they don’t play redundant positions like STAT and Melo did. If we do go all in on this new big 3, its a PG, a SF/PF and a Center. The pieces are way more complimentary.

Austrian economics HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

Ok, I can breathe now.

I just hope Perry and Mills don’t fall too much in love with Barrett. I’d be fine with him as the pick, but they should be looking for any potential good deals that can come up. Pick him if nothing better shows up, but stay active and gauge his market value which is almost certain to be high right now.

Kornet is a perfectly useful NBA player. He can shoot and block shots.

Which kind of brings us back to the MitchRob offense debate. Would he be better off diversifying his game to shooting 3s. The scouting reports said he wasn’t terrible at it in HS. I know his personal metrics would suffer if he did shoot them on open looks, but would our offense be better off for it? Some of the best teams seem to think that they want or have bigmen on the court who can do it consistently. Toronto traded for Gasol, Milwaukee picked up Lopez, the Warriors picked up Cousins, Sixers have Embiid, etc.

I don’t know. Maybe we shouldn’t be laughing at Austria or Austrian economics. We elected Trump president after all. Well, not me, but…
🙂

Isn’t Kornet a RFA? What’s he gonna cost?

I don’t care what anyone says – Hayek can ball. He’s at worst the #2 guy on a championship team.

Official combine measurements:

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1129092992512516097

@87

Hayek at the very least could really write, and he was a pretty smart dude by all accounts. I’d say he’s the DeMar DeRozan of economics, not conducive to wins at all but at least his game is kinda aesthetically pleasing if you’re into that.

@86
Holy shit it really all makes sense now.

I’m kinda done with all this oh poor strat being persecuted by the evil stats lovers. Every time now that he comes with this mystical perceptions about how basketball should work in his own head with zero tangible arguments it’s this stuff all over again.

If you choose to go against what most of the people in here are agreeing on for years and you don’t present tangible arguments that can convince people, you’re going to face heavy disagreement. If you do it for months and years while simultaneously saying you’re also smarter than everyone else, how can you expect people to like you? In my opinion most if not all posters here have been extremely level headed and respectful to him despite all this stuff. Take a page out of the Austrian economists and understand people are free to think you’re opinions are terrible and to react strongly to them.

Clarke killed the athletic tests

@JK47

I am also an INFP!

Where can you see the combine athletic testing?

i just took the small sample test:
https://www.personalityperfect.com/
and over here:
https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test
and over here too:
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

by far the most useful class in college was this self-personality “discovery” type class i took – i almost failed probability and stats – twice 🙁

mine has seemed to change over time, and, with my mood…young (20’s): INTJ, little older (40’s): ENTJ, just now: ISTJ and INFJ and INTJ…seems the only constant is my rigid view of the world…

too funny, we’re a bunch of introverts:

we are united – separately in our own homes

honestly, i don’t think i’ve had this myers-briggs conversation with but maybe 2 other people my whole life 🙂

Whatever on Earth ISTP-A is, one of those tests says it’s me.

I’m ENFP. I’m impressed that there are so many feelers (vs. thinkers) here!

So it occurred to me (although I’m sure it’s been said before; probably several times) that it’s sort of ironic that New Orleans — although obviously ecstatic that they got the #1 pick — can no longer have the Zion pick on their wish list for Anthony Davis. Therefore we might have the best draft asset available to them, although being only slightly better than the Lakers doesn’t help our cause.

Ludwig von Mises can’t play in the playoffs. No better than the eleventh man on a contender

I don’t care what anyone says – Hayek can ball. He’s at worst the #2 guy on a championship team.

These guys are strictly euro league players. But hey, that’s a step up from the gang of four.

I imagine there are a lot of introverts here. I’m ambiverted (comfortable in large parties but prefer small gatherings) but I prefer to talk about the Knicks with y’all than a group of extroverts at a bar.

I have a thing for inefficient volume scorers. Does that make me a PERvert?

man, the warriors are just so freaking smooth…

It is nice to watch an offensive juggernaut of a team that plays defense hard…..

I’ve been wondering for 18 months why they don’t play Meyers Leonard more. He’s got half decent stretch bigability

I have a thing for inefficient volume scorers. Does that make me a PERvert?

Z-Man, touche.

I never went too much into this because I’m a pretty huge deleuzian so to speak, but I took two tests once upon a time and came out as ENFP, not that I really know what that means.

And yeah, the Blazers – Warriors series looks like it will be a quick 4-1. Portland had a very good chance and blew it as the Warriors just clamped down in the 3rd and 4th and executed as always.

Kornet is a perfectly useful player — I’m glad he’s restricted with a minimal cap hold or else I’m thinking we would have to give him up.

I’m sure there’s some weird trade out there that I’m not seeing right now that will totally change our roster, but a perfectly reasonable offseason could be predicted to be trading DSJ or Frank for a high 2nd to clear their cap # and allow us to keep Trier on his current deal, signing KD/Kyrie, signing a vet SF or PF who can shoot with the room exception, and bringing back Kadeem Allen and Kornet.

So our roster would then be:

PG: Kyrie, DSJ or Frank, Kadeem Allen
SG: Dotson
SF/PFs: Durant, Knox, RJ Barrett, room FA, probably Lance Thomas resigned for minimum, maybe Vonleh?
C: Mitch, Kornet
plus whoever we draft with an early 2nd + late 2nd

That would be totally reasonable IMHO and a fun team to root for, would still have all our 1st’s plus the 2 dallas picks.

If Zion falls to #3, we should strongly consider him.

– Beal for Lance/RJ/Knox/DSJ
– Covington for Trier/Frank/Ellenson/Jenkins/Mavs pick/Charlotte picks

My understanding is that have to waive Lance in order to fit both KD and Kyrie under the cap. Same goes for declining team options for Jenkins, Trier, and Ellenson. We may be able to keep one of Ellenson or Jenkins.

If these are the trades we’re making we need to take back about $10-12 million less in salary from them to allow us to sign KD and Kyrie.

Been working the #’s at tradenba.com – it might be possible to obtain BOTH Beal and Covington.

This you definitely cannot do. Not if you’re signing Durant and Kyrie for the max.

The reason it’s working for you in the trade machine but can’t work in real life is because you’re using contracts of guys that we’d have to waive to sign Kyrie and Durant to the max.

Stretching Noah was the right move for Noah and for the sake of the younger Knicks players from a moral perspective. Unfortunately, from a basketball perspective it was a horrible decision.

I hate to say this, but if Durant and KI do sign here this summer, and including Mitch is the only way to get AD, I’d do it. Mitch+Barrett+2 1st rounders would be a very competitive offer to anything else NO could get. I would only do that if I got an assurance from DeAndre Jordan that he’d then sign for the room exception. A starting lineup of Kyrie, Durant, AD, Jordan and any scrub who can hit a 3 (Dotson, Trier) would be amazing.

I definitely do that too, even without an assurance from DeAndre Jordan. It’s not too hard to find a serviceable player at the minimum. We’ve found Kornet, Trier, Lin, etc. etc. etc.

You’re not helping, Marc Berman!

A package of the Knicks’ No. 3 pick, Dallas’ two first-rounders, center Mitchell Robinson and Frank Ntilikina could be in the ballpark.

Maybe Pels ownership thinks pairing Barrett with Zion will compel all those rich Duke alumni to pony up for season tickets at Smoothie King and fly in for a game every once in a while.

A package of the Knicks’ No. 3 pick, Dallas’ two first-rounders, center Mitchell Robinson and Frank Ntilikina could be in the ballpark.

This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen from Berman, and that’s saying a lot.

You can only sign one max player if you do this. The net impact to the Knicks roster is we give up Kyrie, Mitchell, Barrett, Dallas’ two first rounders, and Frank for AD.

NO has to decide whether they are in win now mode or rebuild mode. We know Griffin can do the former, I’m not sure about the latter.

@135 – You’d say no to that if it was the Pelicans’ final offer?

I wouldn’t give up Barrett, the Dallas picks and Mitch, no. Barrett, the Dallas picks and every other Knick? Sure. But not Barrett, the Dallas picks and Mitch.

I see while I was typing my last note everyone beat me to it. lol

NO has to decide whether they are in win now mode or rebuild mode. We know Griffin can do the former, I’m not sure about the latter.

When you have Davis and Jrue Holiday and are adding Zion, you are in both. The only issue for the Pelicans is whether they can convince Davis to stay. If they can, they have a team that will be excellent next year and probably for another 6-7 years after that just as Zion is peaking for the next phase.

Yeah, I would make a Davis trade but not one that guts the team of its youth and picks. Keeping Mitchell would be great.

One thing that may work in our favor…

If Davis still wants out, NO may be motivated to move him as soon as possible so they can start with a clean slate with Zion. Also, Barrett being Zion’s teammate at Duke AND the consensus # 3 could be very enticing to them both from a team building and marketing perspective. If you then throw in the Dallas 2021 pick and say 2 of Frank, Knox or DSJ, you’re giving them a pretty great package of young players and picks.

We may have an advantage bc The Lakers might not want to try and get Davis anymore after the fuckery of last spring. Sure, that GM for NO is gone but its not like the president stepped in and stopped it. The Lakers might be like screw the pelicans.

And if Kyrie is leaving Boston…do they want to make another huge trade that gives up their young core for AD? They might want to stick with what they have for now.

I’m sure other teams will want to make a play for AD, but he still has some leverage cause he can say he will only resign with x, y and z teams.

So I think a deal centered around #3, 2021 Dallas and two of our young players (hopefully not Mitch) would be a pretty decent deal for them. They could then probably turn around and trade Jrue to a team and get some decent stuff back for him too.

Like it or not if we get KD, we’re shifting to win now mode likely for a 2-3 year window. In that time I would expect Jordan to at least match Mitch’s production, likely exceeding it the next year or two. It’d be great to get AD without Mitch, but I doubt it’s realistic, and I doubt our front office holds Mitch in as high of regard as we do, because his offense is limited. I’m just saying, brace yourself for it, because if we do trade for AD, I guarantee Mitch is going, but it gives us a real shot at a championship. Imagine a defense with Jordan and AD protecting the paint and smile.

I think drafting and keeping Barrett is the move. He’s a desirable asset and a nice fit between Kyrie and KD if they come. As good as AD is, he would cost us too much (a sorely underpriced Mitch, RJ, and future picks).

No need to get cute. Kyrie, RJ, KD, vet min pf or sf, Mitch is a very good team that has room to improve. And we’ll still have bench pieces like Trier, Knox, DSJ, and others who can play or be dealt individually.

If they decide that a guy projected lower than RJ is better (like Clarke), and they can get a killing in return (3 picks from the Hawks, for instance) then that’s a solid move. But trading cost-controlled young players for vets that almost definitely won’t get better (Beal, Covington) isn’t smart imo.

Our bargaining position seems to have gotten stronger:

Jackie MacMullan of ESPN:
We have been told, I think, through channels – most of us have heard this same scuttlebutt – that Gayle Benson has basically told him, “To the Lakers, over my dead body.”

If that’s true, it just means we’re going to end up overpaying for the most overqualified 3rd wheel in league history.

This is bad news. Walk away.

Trust the process! Keep all the picks. Look to rent space. Let the cynical KD and KI mercenary act go to New Jersey. That’s a better fit for them anyways. We should look to help facilitate trades and FA signings (teams that want to add cap space) to gobble up additional picks and also maybe an interesting young player or two in the next 2-3 years. We’ll have another lottery pick next year and at least two lottery picks in 2021.

I know, not gonna happen, but that’s what I’m rooting for.

I just don’t think DSJ and Frank have any serious value out there (i.e decent first round pick). If they do, sure, trade ’em.

Dallas was trying to give DSJ away after he sulked and reportedly milked an injury to sit out games when he lost his “the man” spot to Doncic. Frank is an atrocious shooter. Give each another year to take a big step forward. See how they work with Mitch and Barrett. When one or both don’t, then discard. Show some damn patience.

Laker fans still think they’re getting AD. They believe the #4 plus Kuzma, Ball, Ingram, and future picks will get it done. I was told this Wednesday while they clowned me for us getting the #3 pick.

I don’t hate or dislike the Lakers. But I can’t stand Laker fans.

It’s perfectly conceivable that AD would be the best player on a team with himself, Kyrie, and KD. Like Bruno said there are some people being oddly flippant about him. I share everyone’s hesitation about absolutely gutting the team, but we’re not talking about Carmelo Anthony here. A team with those three and an even half-decent squad of second rounders/exception guys is probably an immediate contender.

An interesting question is how much do we value keeping some homegrown guys around to avoid an all-mercenary team situation? Personally I don’t know how to feel about that but I can definitely understand some people’s preference to go with KD/Kyrie + our draft picks (both already made and future). That’s despite the fact that if you really are going into full-blown win now mode, trading for Davis is probably the optimal move.

If Philly wants to they can probably trade Ben Simmons for AD and we absolutely cannot match that offer.

I love Mitch but the roster has very little upside otherwise. Knox and Ntilikina are hot garbage. Trier shows occasional goodness but is not that young and will need to show a lot more to be a viable starter, even at SG, a lower-production position. Dotson is yet another useless player a la Cleathony Early or any of those mid 2010s players who soaked up a bit of usage and then flipped out of the league. Smith will almost certainly be overpaid on his next contract, as he’s overpaid now.

If we had gotten #1, or maybe if we get Morant, I would be in favor of a two-max cast with Zion and Mitch, probably a competitive ECF team in the east within two years, even as Durant declines.

What’s changed for me is that Barrett and Mitch and the garbage we have is likely not enough on its own for a full rebuild. And we don’t have the luxury to see which of the players will get better year over year.

So yeah, if you can get Irving, Durant and Davis, fuck it, push all the chips in. Would be the best three-star lineup in the league.

Embiid and Davis would be an interesting combination.

Simmons would be stoked to go back to Louisiana I am sure.

It’s really incredible how up in the air things are. Range of possibilities has never been wider (outside of that moment where there were three picks left in the lottery) and may never be again.

dang, it’s already friday again…time just moves so freaking fast…

last night’s game was a bit disheartening…as much as i respect the warriors and actually enjoy watching their roster compete, and how they play the game – i’m just tired of seeing them win and make it to the finals over and over again…

when the playoffs started i actually believed the field would beat them this year…not, very confident about that now…

i expect another good game between the bucks and raptors tonight…it’s good to see brogdon back out there…

Boston and Philly are much more likely destinations for Davis than the Knicks. They can offer stars and close to stars for Davis. We all like Robinson but he doesn’t meet that criterion. The Clippers probably want Davis too, but they would have to offer Gallinari and Williams and I don’t think that will be the sort is players NO will want. Generally speaking, the type of tean that will probably get Davis is a disappointed playoff contender that wants to improve

He won’t want to play second fiddle to any of those guys and will likely sulk, or worse.

I doubt DSJ would mind taking a back seat to Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. It’s one thing to be annoyed by being passed by by a rookie, it’s another thing to be passed by by two superstars.

I doubt DSJ would mind taking a back seat to Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. It’s one thing to be annoyed by being passed by by a rookie, it’s another thing to be passed by by two superstars.

I rarely disagree with you, but do on this. From what I’ve read of the guy, he’s got a huge ego and wants the be the man. Hey, maybe he’ll grow up and accept a 12-15 min. bench role, but I’ll have to see it to believe it. Not good for his next contract.

So we all know what DSJ is thinking now.

Dallas sucked. Even with Doncic they sucked. Its very different to be told to take a smaller role on a team that is no good vs. being told to take a smaller role on a team with two of the best players in the league and you’re team is winning more games than not.

although i don’t completely understand the science behind it (much like horoscopes :), i do trust the process/results as being an accurate reflection of how we operate…

for myself, i found this personality type testing to be useful towards a path for self-actualization..being the person you want to be, by having an idea of some key personality traits which currently exist within you on how you may interact with the world…not to say that you can change your personalty type, but, rather how to work within your own personality structure to achieve your goals…

plus, who doesn’t like reading about themselves 🙂

ugh, i think i may have done a shitty job explaining, but, i believe this is a useful tool for everyone…

it’s still insane to me that Lebron made four in a row with two different teams, back-to-back. In–sane.

for how long though was the narrative that the eastern conference was far and away inferior (in terms of individual/team talent) than the western conference…

seems one dominant player was able to hold their influence over those other 14 teams that he competed against…it is pretty insane though, especially cuz one injury (like he had this season) would have prevented that from happening…

Re: AD

No trade Mitch…

Offer the Pelicans the unprotected Dallas pick, #3, DSJ, whatever salary filler/young guys of ours they want that you need to make it work, and our unprotected first the same year as Dallas’. That’s plenty of assets for them. If they can do better than that let them and make other moves if we have KD and Kyrie.

Stretching Noah limited the Knick options, but Perry did something nice. The contracts of Jenkins, Ellenson and Garrett are non-guaranteed next season for 2m, 1.6m, and 1,4m. They could be useful in the event Kyrie (or Kemba/Kawhi) doesn’t join KD here. We sign KD, then use Lance’s and those 3 contracts to help make #’s work in an AD trade. My guess is NO would want #3 pick, Mitch and other picks instead of DSJ/Frank/Knox so that 5m in non-guaranteed contracts could be important. Also we then might be able to deal some combination of Frank/DSJ/Knox/Trier/Dotson for a decent player or 2 (maybe Covington?). Not ideal at all, we’d have KD/AD/Covington and not much else but my guess is the FO would do that if Kyrie/Kemba/Kawhi have no interest in Knicks. They’d be desperate because I doubt KD signs without a 2nd star.

Myers-Briggs isn’t super scientific but it’s an interesting kind of shorthand way to understand some things about yourself and people you know.

For instance, I’m INFP and my wife is INFJ, and just about all of our disagreements stem from the difference in that last letter, perceiving vs judging. One of my best friends is INTP, and we’re very similar except that he tends to respond to things logically while I tend to respond emotionally.

It’s more of a fun party game kind of thing than actual science, but I find it kind of interesting.

So Hubert tell me if this scenario could work according to your spreadsheets:
Step 1: Sign KD
Step 2: Trade #3 pick/Mitch/Mavs picks for AD (AD’s 27m fits into our space)
Step 3: Trade Lance/Knox/DSJ/1st round pick/3 non-guaranteed contracts for Beal
Step 4: Trade Frank/Trier/Charlotte picks for Covington

Starters: Kadeem/Beal/Covington/KD/AD
Bench: Dotson/Kornet/Room exception

Not sure that’s enough for either Beal or Covington, might have to add another 1st round pick.

Also I wonder if Kornet in a sign-and-trade is possible in putting a package together. He’d have to agree to destination but there are other restrictions like # of players involved in deal.

Pretty sure the Briggs-Myer shit is all bullshit though

holy cow – just googled the question: “how scientific is the myers-briggs personality test”…

there is a whole bunch written on this very topic…although derived largely from Jung (who seems to be a somewhat controversial figure in of himself), it does “touch” on some neuroscience “features”…current big proponent is this individual named dario nardi (who actually has PhD in something)…but, who also makes money off of the myers-briggs stuff…

ironically my mom’s horoscope book was named “love signs”, and, how the different zodiac signs were compatible with one another…as jk mentioned above – the myers briggs stuff does seem well suited towards defining relationships with others…

still not letting go of the”mastermind” title the test granted me 🙂

The way I see it, a process like this one can help me like a photograph can help me: it can show things that exist right now, patterns that I am currently following in my behavior and my relations with others. But it can’t tell me anything about my future or how those relationships will develop or how will I feel about myself, because that’s always subject to change and to the effects of the work I put on myself. So yeah, it can be interesting, as long as we ignore the predictive nature of those categories and take them for what they are.

I won’t go to much on the rhizome and stuff like that, but there’s plenty of decent to good content on YouTube if you want to dig a bit deeper, specially at an introductory level. And you rock, geo.

I realize some people here have given up on Knox and Frank because one is among the worst offensive player in the NBA getting regular rotation minutes and the other among the worst defensive players in he NBA getting regular minutes. But IMO, it depends on what your expectations are. I still think both can become very good players even if they aren’t stars. They both have some good attributes to go along with their blatant weaknesses on the court. They are both very young and in some ways younger than their actual ages. It’s going to take “years” to find out.

Is there anyway to out price the Bucks for Brogdon and what would be too much gor him?

If Kyrie is the pg the knicks need a secondary ball handler when he is out. A cheaper older and lesser option would be Pat Beverley.

The Bucks guys around Giannis are going to get overpaid but I don’t think any NBA front office would have the stones to let them walk and try to rebuild as Giannis approaches free agency.

Indiana is pretty boring he did what he had to do. At least now we know why his stats nosedived.

It does sadden me a little that Tyreke will now probably never fulfill his destiny to become a Knicks player.

It does sadden me a little that Tyreke will now probably never fulfill his destiny to become a Knicks player.

Eureka! The perfect comp for RJ was under our noses the whole time — check out his college stats.

Caesar’s Sports Book has the Knicks as third choice to win the
NBA title next year….. WTF…. I hope they “know” something I don’t!

It’s kinda crazy how both times the Knicks hired a coach this decade, the guy they wanted went on to take a job and turn a team into a juggernaut. Kerr with the current Warriors and Budenholzer with the Bucks. I’m still all in with Fizdale, but damn it would be nice to have an elite coach.