Game Thread: New York Knicks at Brooklyn Nets
Start Time: 01/25/2019 19:30:00
Nets flexing muscles while Knicks in a nose-dive
When they last met on Dec. 8, the Brooklyn Nets and New York Knicks were in the opening stages of their current trajectories.
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90 replies on “Game Thread: New York Knicks at Brooklyn Nets”
Copying this from the previous thread:
I’m curious, who would max KP, as long as the contract has strong injury protections? Who would not?
For the record I would.
I don’t really think that’s the right debate, because it almost certainly won’t have any notable injury protections. It’s going to be pretty much a black or white question of, “Would you max KP out or not?”
Why are you so sure there won’t be any protections?
Owen, let’s say the Knicks can terminate the contract after three years if KP doesn’t play a minimum of 150 games until then.
As for this year‘s lottery, since there’s only a small chance it would happen, no, we don’t get the #1 pick.
geo the fan – yeah, sign kp to the max…we need talent, and, he’s the most talented guy we’ve had on our roster for years…maybe we can reach the .500 mark next year if we can somehow pickup a decent point guard…
geo the gm – trade him, or, sign him to a qualifying offer thing…keep trying to pick up young controlled assets and shoot for a .500 club in the 2020-2021 season…
i don’t think even a healthy kp can make us a .500 club with our current roster…if you’re reliant on just one guy to make a big difference on your club – seems they have to be someone whom can dribble the ball around a bunch…anthony davis seems to be a prime example for that…
Because he’s a restricted free agent, unlike Embiid, who was doing his as a straight extension. If KP wants a straight max offer (for less years), he can get one from another team and the Knicks will have to match. That might be better for the Knicks than just maxing him out themselves (since it will be cheaper), but it won’t have injury protections.
just to make sure I get it….we can either offer a long term deal, or the $7.5M qualifying offer. If we offer a deal, we can max at 5 years? If we offer the qualifying, he’s a restricted FA…meaning someone else can offer him a deal, and we can choose to match or not. but, the max duration would be 4 years.
So, we really dont’ have to offer him a “max” deal, of 5 years. We could go 5 years, less than the max per year. or we can match someone else’s offer for 4.
It really feels like our choices are trade him for what we can get, or agree to match whatever he gets offered. Or hope more than one team wants him and offers a trade. I’m not really sure we have options like an injury protection deal.
the cba does not allow injury protections in the 5 year max to a rookie scale rfa. so your only way to get those protections is if he would voluntarily sign a non max deal containing them or if he signs an offer sheet with another team containing protections.
all those posting about how we shouldn’t pay kp the max, are really saying one of two things, usually without actually specifying, leaving a bold yet largely meaningless proclamation:
1- we should not offer him the max but X, and if he says no match any offer sheet he gets
2- we should not offer him the max but X, and if he says no only match offer sheets Y
1. is in my opinion equivalent to offering him the max. maybe you get lucky and his best offer is a four year deal with injury protection. in that case you made a good tactical move but that’s it. more likely he gets whatever offer he wants and you get a deal with bad features, perhaps a 3/1 option deal with a trade kicker. some might prefer such a deal to a max but that preference is trivial and not really about “maxing” kp.
2. this is the only interesting opinion available. but it’s only meaningful if you roughly specify where you would refuse to match and offer sheet and lose kp for nothing. a straight four year max without injury protection? the worst possible 3/1 or 2/1 deal you could be served? a four yer max less $1m in the each of the last two years?
i think there are really two camps. one who would let kp walk for nothing unless he took something like 4/$75 (making that up bc nobody ever says) and one who would suck it up and match a max deal but want to go on record as objecting to it in case it doesn’t work out.
Mudiay out for at least two weeks.
Frank Ntilikina is going to get a real chance to show what he can do.
@ 9 – don’t want Mudiay to be injured but YES! THIS IS YOUR TIME FRANK!
hmmmm, hard pressed to pick a best ever wolverine storyline, but, fatal attractions (where magneto yanks out his adamantium) is way up there…the hype for origin was real and well deserved…
for me though – the image of logan breaking out of weapon x and standing in the snow looking crazy as hell – is probably my all time fave – so, i’d go with weapon x…
not sure what you may have wanted to originally copy and paste – but, i like these thread interludes 🙂
it seems like we have to think about who has $$ next year and what they likely might offer to have a solid opinion.
I, too, enjoy when Knicks Fan Brian and Comics Journalist Brian have their brief Freaky Friday moments like this. And the best Wolverine story is still him alone against the Hellfire Club in Uncanny X-Men.
Back on topic, looking forward to Frank getting some run without having to look over his shoulder for a few weeks. His shot hasn’t been falling at all (despite form looking good), but other parts of his game have been relatively promising of late.
Only downside to the Mudiay injury is that it will make him harder to trade, assuming the team is even inclined to do so. So the worry about what kind of contract Perry might give him will continue for a while.
It looks like about 10 teams would have enough $$ next year (Atl, Brk, LAL, LAC, Utah, Phil, Chi, Dal, Ind, Sac. Someone has to sign Durant, Kawhi, Kyrie and Butler, and maybe Cousins and Kemba. Assume Phi either keeps Butler or gets 1 of the other 5, and Klay stays in GS. That means like 6 teams can afford him. I feel like Utah is out. I would guess Atl doesnt’ want to take the risk. I’m guessing both LA teams go after Durant / Kawhi. Kinda feels like that leaves Brooklyn, Chicago, Dallas, Indy and Sacramento. I guess it only takes one. But….does someone shy away from offering him a max because it ties them up for a few days and they might lose out on someone else? idk.
Good lord. Now Fiz is saying he’s not sure who will start at PG while Mudiay is out, just that Burke and Lee are likely to be back in the rotation.
Oh, he may be a total a-hole, but that doesn’t in and of itself make him a bad coach on the floor. And to be fair, the Matt Barnes thing was more on Barnes (Derek and Matt’s ex have since married, right?) What I had a problem with was that he left the team to be with her when he shouldn’t have, causing an unnecessary controversy. And the TH2 girlfriend rumor was shot down by TH2 himself.
PtMilo on point as usual.
I want something like 18 million for four. I also don’t really have the courage to let him walk.
I don’t like to get things wrong so I am going to decide later. At least the Knocks are giving us something to think about. Pretty much every contract they have signed in the last 15 years has had an easily predictable outcome.
As to the “scamming” thing, has it been shown that he’s selling an unethical product in an unethical way to unsuspecting millionaire victims? How dis such a twisted, misguided individual get elected NBPA player rep?
I really don’t give a shit about Fisher, but I don’t see him as that much more of an asshole than Isiah, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Michael, etc. None of them are “great guys.”
Would anyone be shocked in Fiz started Trier at PG?
I feel like KP has the rep in the league where even if all he does is come back looking how he looked pre-injury he will be tradeable on a max. He’s only 23, he’s an excellent rim protector and he shoots 3s. Someone is always going to talk themselves into him. You might not get a haul unless he starts delivering some production along with his potential but he’s not going to be an albatross. So I’m confident that ***barring further injury and assuming he comes back at least at the level he was showing prior to the injury*** there’s not much risk in doing what it takes to keep him. The question is about the caveat and the Knicks have way more information on that front than we do (since they’ve seen his medicals and his workouts). So in some sense I feel like we (gulp) have to believe in their decision here. It really is a situation where the info we don’t have access to makes all the difference.
that is kind of weird – he’s willing to run knox out there til his legs fall off (even though he hasn’t looked too good the last few games); but, it seems like he’s babying frank…
give frank the start, play him 30 to 35 minutes and see what happens for the next six or seven games…what’s the worst that can happen – frank’s frail ego gets more damaged, we lose more games 🙂
Regarding Wolverine I would go with Weapon X and Enemy of the State.
About KP, I don’t know… 20 million per?
I would offer KP the max and pray, but in hindsight Phil had the right idea. If you think he’s a higher than average injury risk and you know you are going to have to pay him before you know his “top” (as Phil was on record saying) the correct thing to do was to explore the trade market before he got hurt and was still at his maximum value. Of course, if you don’t get what you believe is fair offer you have to say “no”.
Phil got demolished by the press at the time for even considering it. That episode was probably the last straw that got him fired. At least he considered it.
Right now, I’m not sure what we could get, but it’s probably not enough. We have even greater injury risk and lost a year+ of observation and development, but there’s still a chance he can turn into a two-way monster as he fills out and improves his game. Give him the max and pray.
Knowing Fizdale, he’s going to use Burke and Trier a ton at PG and still leave Frank fans with fewer developmental minutes than desired.
The thing to do in that case is not draft Porzingis.
Jowles, I wanted to address this point that you made in a previous thread. Part of my objection to Kanter’s endless bitching is that he is NOT effectively serving his own interests. He obviously thinks that getting playing time by any means necessary is the way to maximize his value, but that’s not true. He’s becoming a diva, and teams generally don’t want divas. They certainly don’t want divas who are backups and who may be dropped from a playoff rotation altogether. Those guys cause trouble and aren’t worth the effort. So I think he’s lowering his value as a player, which I wouldn’t care much about, except that he’s also lowering his value as a trade asset. That’s what should be pissing off Knick fans.
whew, i sure am relieved to see lance is in the starting five tonight…
you’d think he’s be more concerned about just keeping hold of that work visa…
The Nets have won 16 more games than the Knicks have. Woof.
i used to have joyful disdain for the woeful nyets…the knicks have stolen that from me…
I find it kind of hilarious that Lance is starting instead of Kanter.
The best player in NYC from the Baltics (edit: From Latvia!) plays for the Nets maybe.
Interested to watch Kurucs
Not saying the Knicks are in great position but the Nets look like a purely mediocre team unless a major FA signs with them.
Who is this doing the game with Clyde?
Folks with the amount of money Kanter has don’t really have to be too concerned about their ability to stay in the country. Plenty of legal doors open for the wealthy.
I think this is accurate, which means that you pay as little as you feel you can reasonably get away with but you definitely re-sign him and hope the injury didn’t turn him into a pumpkin. You just need to be willing and able to put him up for trade at the first opportunity if you don’t see the team shaping up during his second contract. I have not faith that will be the case, but it’s what I would do.
Is any else thinking that the rim microphones are a little off on the MSG feed? Sounds like the ball is hitting a wooden wall.
Kenny Albert right?
The audio on the rims is super jacked up. Might be just me.
Loving Frank so far
Someone named Ed Cohen
i dream of the knicks finally reaching a state of mediocrity…
The Noah Vonleh game
Ed Cohen is not bothering me at the moment. Clyde is saying Frank missed 3 shots early but ESPN has him shooting 2-3?
very strong start for frank on both ends
Noah en fuego
Vonleh is too good to be a Knick. Young, improving, defends, handles, passes, shoots the 3, and rebounds. We should definitely dump him for a 2nd rounder and pray a max player is dumb enough to sign here instead of actually trying to sign him back.
The Knicks have 3 defenders on the court (instead of 0 or 1) and they are actually playing defense.
Wow, how did that happen?
Imagine if they benched Hardaway and put a defender in that slot.
We may actually hear chants of Deeefense at the Garden again.
Here are some fun stats!
Noah Vonleh, career highs over his first 277 games:
16 points scored
Noah Vonleh, through 9 minutes on this day January the 25th during this year of our lord, 2019, which happens to be his contract year:
14 points scored
This is definitely sustainable.
Those were two pretty garbage fouls on Lance and Noah. Lance had a good dunk earlier too off a feed from Frank. He’s got more hops than you would think.
And Knoz with two very low probability floaters rattling in. Both slightly less ungainly than at the beginning of the season.
Courtney Lee sighting!
dotson is the 4 here
Haha, why did they not hold the ball for the last shot?
Tonite will not be good for the tank.
I love Mitch Rob so much
I swear Mitch would average a dunk a minute with a competent point guard
I can remember thinking Ed Davis was good in college, sort of like I felt last year about Omari Spellman. He is a major pest.
The Nets are really playing unbelievable bad defense. That can’t be sustainable either.
I think I am going to dream about Zion and Mitch playing together tonight.
The team has definitely looked better since Mitch Rob returned.
What percentage of Trier’s assists have gone to Mitch? He doesn’t seem to pass to anyone else.
Mitch Rob is easily the best player on the Knicks right now. And he’s a baby gazelle who might not fully understand what a personal foul is, yet.
Garbage foul on Frank there. I think it’s kind of funny to take Frank out for foul trouble but whatever.
Knicks suddenly can’t make a shot and this is turning into the Theo Pinson game.
We’re getting annihilated on the glass again
Has Kevin Knox Ever Dribbled with His Left Hand? An Inquiry
I love this team
I read somewhere that it’s a prosthetic.
if hardaway didn’t take weird charges he’d probably be my least favorite all time knick
i swear d lo is throwing this shit
Well, career high for Vonleh. So we have that to remember.
I like Kurucs a lot. Don’t know how high the ceiling is but seems like he’ll be a good piece. Pretty heady player. Clearly has smarts out there.
We could use Kanter.
yeah i like kurucs too. he was what i was hoping for when we first signed kuz. it seems like he’ll be a good shooter but he also seems to have a high quotient of missing by like a foot.
Nobody on this team can get a dang rebound
That dude was well into the restricted area.
These refs need to chill out…
Carroll and Davis are pretty nice guys to bring off the bench….
Clyde is talking about Fortnite lol
We might end up with as many fouls as rebounds.
This Nets b-team announcing crew is awful. And so are the Knicks.
That was an insane alley oop by Mitch
Followed by a great block. And only two fouls in 13 minutes.
Give Mitch the max.
Why is Kanter not playing again? And only 12 minutes for Frank?
Frank in foul trouble.
Re Kanter, we preferred to get totally dominated by Ed Davis
mitch doesn’t have a single average trait. he’s the best or the worst at everything.
they have double the rebounds we do
I think the Nets found a better 6’9 scoring forward with the 40th pick than we got with the 9th.
Timmy, Lance & Kevin have combined for over an hour of basketball without an assist.
The only Knicks starter with more than 1 assist played 14 minutes lol
That was a block
Pretty pleased with my decision not to watch this game.
the first half was pretty entertaining
Huh. More fouls than rebounds. 12 steals, 10 blocks, 8 turnovers.
Good: Frank was second on the team in rebounds in only 18 minutes!
Bad: He had 4 rebounds.
It was a David Berri, rebounds do matter, kind of game.
Kanter would have been useful.
Fizdale shat all over the ‘winning culture’ argument. “Losing makes you hard.”
Here’s the article that my errant cut and pasted quote was from. 🙂 https://www.cbr.com/wolverine-sears-exclusive-comic-book/