Game Thread: New York Knicks at Oklahoma City Thunder

Game Thread: New York Knicks at Oklahoma City Thunder

Start Time: 11/14/2018 20:00:00

Thunder host Knicks team in transition

After using the same starters for the last nine games, New York Knicks coach David Fizdale might overhaul his lineup for Wednesday’s game against the Oklahoma City Thunder.
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Pre Game Links:

  • [] Thunder host Knicks team in transition
  • [] Thunder vs Knicks preview and gamethread: OKC looks to stay hot vs NY
  • [] Westbrook Injury: Thunder Starting Five Against Knicks Without Westbrook
  • [] Thunder vs. Knicks lineups, tip-off time and TV info
  • [] Kevin Knox in, Frank Ntilikina out of starting lineup vs. Thunder
  • [] Emmanuel Mudiay replacing Frank Ntilikina in Knicks’ lineup versus Thunder
  • [] Thunder’s Russell Westbrook: Goes through morning shootaround
  • [] Now Mudiay rises as Knicks debuting faster starting lineup
  • [] Westbrook Injury Update: Will Westbrook Play Against the Knicks?
  • [] Game Preview: Knicks at Thunder-
  • [] Thunder’s Russell Westbrook: Ruled out vs. Knicks
  • 92 replies on “Game Thread: New York Knicks at Oklahoma City Thunder”

    We’re dead last in the league in dimes so far. Mitch/KP/Knox/Trier/Dot…you don’t build an offense around player movement which requires passing expertise with those players.


    Guess where our 2013 54-28 team ranked in dimes at end of season? Dead Last
    Guess where our 2013 54-28 team ranked in 3FGA at end of season? First

    Our players and future scream spread PnR like that 2013 team in which players only have to make the simple pass. The sooner coach recognizes this, the better. Take that for data.

    “Well, he has taken 61 shots so far and has 2 assists in 120 minutes, so yeah, I have a feeling he’s not a willing passer.”

    Ouch. If you Knox and Trier on the floor at the same time the other three guys better not need the ball because they’re not getting it unless they snag a rebound.

    If Knox could show some of that rebounding aggression from preseason/SL that would be great.

    Clippers might make more sense than us. That’s a very solid roster they’ve built since Doc stopped being GM, and it would allow Durant to be in LA without having to either play with LeBron or eat more shit for being a bandwagoneer. Bringing a championship to the Clippers probably wouldn’t be quite as iconic as if he could somehow do it for the Knicks, but I could see the city and that lineup exciting him, for sure.

    Clips are probably going to land a mad guy. I think Kawhi is more likely than KD but I wouldn’t be surprised if KD goes there.

    Is their roster that great once they clear the space, though?

    It would be:

    Guards: SGA, Lou Will, Robinson
    Forwards: Durant, Gallo, Harrell
    Center: ???

    And ~$25mm to play with

    That doesn’t really blow us away.

    It can’t be that the argument between Durant and Green came totally out of the blue and they were BFF before this. There must have been stress of some sort. It could explain why there were so many rumors that Durant wants to leave after this year.

    If Knox could show some of that rebounding aggression from preseason/SL that would be great.

    Remember when Summer League started and he was, like, a totally different player?

    And then Summer League ended and he was the same guy he was before.

    And then the season started, and he was worse?

    One of those was good times.

    I won’t believe the Clippers can sign a max dog until they do.

    Wouldn’t the same be said about the Knicks, though?

    I guess they could move gallo and that would really open things up.

    Yeah, he’d be just a one-year $22 million deal at that point. You should be able to move that without much problem if he continues to play like he has so far this season.

    @12, definitely, but at least there is no bigger franchise in New York than the Knicks. LA Basketball is all about the Lakers, not the Clippers, and why leave Bay Area basketball to be #2 in Los Angeles?

    The Knicks are the landing spot if KD leaves GSW. I don’t think anywhere else makes sense lifestyle wise, unless Dallas has some killer free agency pitch lined up.

    Clippers might make more sense than us. That’s a very solid roster they’ve built since Doc stopped being GM

    i think i heard that dolan tried to get jerry west to come work for the knicks…i forgot why (may have been mills staying on), but, dolan’s sweaty dollars couldn’t persuade him…

    seriously though – that freaking guy is a basketball genius…

    Hi guys, just stopping by to say I’m glad I’m spending quality time on the beach with my fiancée and not watching games for a few days more. This new lineup must be awful to watch. I’ll add some anti-emetics to my diet when I’ll come back.

    I caught a bit of the Orlando game and I could have sworn that my tan had almost completely gone away. It took me some heavily spicy pico de gallo to get me back on track.

    One of the bad things about having a meddlesome idiot owner is that smart executives don’t want to work for him

    Once the Knicks knew you wouldn’t be writing a recap saying how good or bad they were they totally took the night off and stank up the joint.

    Someone’s going to take Barrett over Zion and make a huge mistake in the process. This game is just absurd.

    The paranoid side of me sees Mudiay playing like a sort of starving man’s John Wall, and the Knicks resign him for 4 years, $48 million.

    Is Fizdale’s wife still mega-hot? I want to make sure he has something to look forward to when he leaves work every night

    KAT has been a monster since Butler left. He was obviously dogging it. What does that say about him?

    Also, Felton is one of those now-fat former JUCO players who doesn’t stretch or warm up at pickup night but still puts 15 up on you in 4-on-4s. And by “one of those,” I don’t mean he’s the NBA equivalent of that. I mean he’s actually that guy.

    Trier may not be more than a poor-man’s Jamal Crawford, but he’s going to have himself a career. He’s just too smooth with the ball in penetration.

    And Robinson limps off the court with an apparent ankle sprain. Great.

    The main bright spot of this season going down with an injury ugh

    I used to think Amar’e was a uniquely bad big-defender but I’ve commanded foosball men with more mobility than Kanter

    KAT has been a monster since Butler left. He was obviously dogging it. What does that say about him?

    The NBA has a long history of great players who have dogged it until they got the result that they wanted. I don’t think it says anything about him either way.

    Jimmy Butler was also dogging it-I don’t think either guy came out of that fiasco looking good.

    @37 don’t fully agree. I do agree that it’s far from unheard of, but there are also lots of guys who would never do that, and sometimes the difference between those types of guys can matter.

    it’s hard to give up 19 in 4:42

    Not when you take Frank and Dotson out, put Knox and Mudiay in, and Hardaway is one of the players on the court with them.

    Brian, At the risk of sounding like my dad, just because other guys do it doesn’t make it right or acceptable. If I took my kid to a game and his favorite player didn’t play hard and he could tell and asked me why and I told him it’s because there’s a guy on his team he doesn’t want to play with… Get paid millions, play hard. Done.

    During the middle of the KAT/Butler saga I read that Butler was sometimes freezing KAT out and that was part of the friction between the two. KAT would be wide open and Butler would look him off. Plus, just taking Butler out of the lineup means KAT and Wiggins are going to get more touches and score more.

    I really need Hezonja to stop being a Knick

    It’s very easy to see why Hezonja was highly regarded in the draft. He has a lot of skills to work with. Unfortunately putting the ball in the basket, making good decisions, and playing defense are not three of them.

    So after Adams just Debo’d Kanter for that facial, Kanter should just retire – at least for tonight.

    I mean, that was just disrespectful… lol

    Butler seems like an incredible a-hole. I love Isola’s shtick about “first there was General Washington, then General Patton, and now we have General Soreness…” basically saying that on one hand, Butler portrays himself as a warrior who is all about winning and the money doesn’t mean anything, it’s the love of the game, and then holds out, trashes his teammates and management and dogs it to get paid.

    KAT was probably disgusted by Butler and rightfully so. It’s not KAT’s fault that mgmt gave him a max deal.

    Knox still has his baby teeth. It’s way too soon to worry about his offensive game. He clearly has some skills that need to be improved and refined (especially shot selection). I’m WAY more worried about his defense. That could be a long term problem.

    I can’t imagine a teammate acting like Bulter did not having a negative impact on everyone’s game. It’s like playing with an imp on your shoulder occasionally blowing in your ear and you have to act like everything is fine. And then you get to answer questions about your relationship with the imp!


    I just saw Knox pass the ball!

    All I know is that if the Warriors need to choose between Draymond Green and Durant, they will choose Durant without blinking. Green’s best days are slightly behind him.

    Durant won’t be a Knick. Zero reasons for him to want that.

    This Thunder team is going to be very good absent Melo and with Roberson and Westbrook assuming Roberson can be the same defensive player.

    This is premature but I’m calling it now: Knox is a total bust

    Nowadays every single time I hear the phrase “3 on 3 workout” I nearly lose my mind

    Knox had an assist!!!!! After he botched a fast break of course… then that three and another botched fast break… this is getting ugly.

    The Knicks can be just as bad as Cleveland, if we just believe

    I think it’s looking pretty damn likely that Jordan Bell is the starting PF for GSW next year. I could see Draymond being traded in the offseason in exchange for a 3-year commitment from Durant.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see Klay S&Ted, too.

    0.069 WS48
    -3.0 BPM
    -0.1 VORP
    .554 USG% (league average .556)
    -0.019 WP48

    I’m not paying that guy a max. No way, no how.

    Silky, I have to agree. I never do this, it’s so hypocritical with all the pleas for caution on Frank, but if Knox amounts to anything I am eating a sock.

    This is horrible horrible basketball but I am enjoying every Mitch block.

    That Zion dunk was phenomenal and the Canaveral call was perfect

    I think I’ve seen Knox run the floor and slam in transition like twice and the rest of the time he looks like a smaller, lesser Anthony Bennett

    Yeah, it’s hypocritical. On that note, I will state for the record that Knox will have a better career than Frank. Let the hyperbole begin!

    Thunder play-by-play guy has twice said Kanter is one of the best 6th men in the league tonight. Are there front offices as dumb as play-by-play guys? If so, trade Kanter for a 2nd round pick and a ball rack or something.

    Look on the bright side, Mikal Bridges looks great. Oh wait a minute that’s not so good is it?

    Not when you take Frank and Dotson out, put Knox and Mudiay in, and Hardaway is one of the players on the court with them.

    Exactly. It’s no accident the Thunder are almost at 100 points with time left in the third quarter. I can’t watch the game, but the defensive lineup with the statistics cited by Frank below has a better chance to keep games close even though they can’t score. That statistic is very impressive. It’s more than an average NBA defense that is needed to do that.

    I am not 100% sure that Fizdale needs to change the starting lineup. I know it sucked ass against Orlando but in general it’s been very good — to the tune of a +6.1 net rating over ~400 possessions with an elite 99.5 DRtg (97th percentile) according to cleaningtheglass. (to be clear this is the Frank/THJ/Dotson/Vonleh/MitchRob lineup)

    As an aside how is Wally employed: “Seattle basketball players are smart: they know the game and have high basketball IQs”

    Like, jesus christ

    Mike Conley is overpaid, but having him back has certainly been a difference maker for Memphis so far.

    Diallo was a better pick than Kevin Knox. The ghost of Reub strikes again

    My preferred starters would be: Burke/Frank/Dotson/Vonleh/MitchRob, all defense except for Burke who is a real pg.

    It is absolutely ridiculous to call Knox a bust after he has only played in a handful of games and coming off an injury. RIDICULOUS!


    People know defense matters, but imo most people wildly underrate it because there are no clean stats that measure it really well. People focus on the boxscore numbers instead. I suspect that even people that try to pay some attention to it STILL underrate it (myself included because I don’t have the time and insights to watch film all day). It doesn’t make sense that it could more than 50% of the game, but being able to lock down on key possessions and down the stretch is critical to winning close games.

    Shooting IS a valuable skill. I think he should be allowed at least 1/2 a season before anyone starts making the determination as to whether or not he is a bust. The kid is super young, has a lot to learn, hasn’t played much yet but with some capable player development, he still looks like he might be a player to me.

    My claim of his being a bust was partly made in bad faith/in jest, but to be serious, he adds literally nothing of value to an NBA roster as of now. If we’re being low on Frank, we should be far lower on Knox–Frank at least has two NBA-level skills in defense and passing. Knox has shown literally nothing at any point to justify drafting him in the first round, never mind the 9th overall pick. He has no projectible skills because he has no skills to speak of beyond a smooth shooting stroke and an impeccable 3 on 3 game. He was the worst pick in the draft (in terms of expected value), possibly with the exception of Collin Sexton.

    He wasn’t even a good shooter in college! He shot 34% from the college 3.

    I am so dying to know whether Clarence Gaines was on board with the Knox pick. I’m almost positive he was on board with Robinson and Trier, but he refuses to talk about Knox much.

    The Knicks’ forwards are so bad that I’m clamoring for Lance Thomas to get healthy.

    Yeah, the Knicks wing D is horrible. Probably another reason to just move Frank to the 3 and try to develop him as a 3 and D guy.

    The guy next to me at the bar asked me if I thought the Knicks could come back at the beginning of the 4th quarter… I told him I’d buy him a beer if they did. He left 2 minutes in.

    The Knicks’ forwards are so bad that I’m clamoring for Lance Thomas to get healthy.


    When KP comes back we are going to win some games (assuming he plays 20 minutes or so and looks good after 10 games of shaking off the rust). Aside from the fact that a lot of our players suck, even some of decent ones are strictly one-way players. That makes lineup construction problematical because we almost always have 3 really bad defenders or scorers on the court at the same time. KP adds a lot of value as a rim protector and help defender and will also add value as a scorer and floor spacer. More importantly, we can actually put some decent balanced lineups on the court. Frank, Hardaway, Dotson, KP, and Robinson is not perfect balance but it’s pretty good defensively and will be able to score most nights.

    Now one can say from his limited playing time what Knox may or may not be a couple of years from now. You say that Frank is a good passer, however, I’ve seen some infuriatingly stupid passes from this supposed good passer. He has so far proven himself to be an AWFUL pg. Yes his defense gives me hope but lately I see the kid get burned repeatedly. That’s to be expected though. He’s young and still trying to figure it out.
    He, unlike Knox, has played enough for me to figure out that he cannot do the job he was drafted to do and that was to be an orchestrator of an NBA offense.
    Let’s pump the brakes on the Knox bust talk at least until after the all-star break.

    If the Knicks EVER get a competent pg and start running pick n roll and some actual offensive sets, I think all our young players will look better. It’s very difficult to win in this league without competent pg play and right now the closest thing we’ve got is Burke. The F/O has to address this sooner than later.

    Trier has one very big flaw. He turns the ball over WAY too much for a non PG.

    It’s very difficult to win in this league without competent pg play and right now the closest thing we’ve got is Burke. The F/O has to address this sooner than later.


    I was saying the same thing this afternoon. If they don’t get Kyrie (or Durant to play point forward), they need a PG. It may require a trade or drafting one, but they need one. I’m not throwing in the towel on Frank, but they have to hedge. Even if Frank turns out to be able to play the position, it’s going to be quite awhile. Maybe UTAH will move on from Rubio, but I don’t think THIS front office is going to want Rubio. I’m not even 100% sure I want him, but it would be nice to have someone that could defend AND run the offense competently.

    That was brutal. First Mirotic get called for a foul because his dick got in the way of the bottom of Wiggins shoe, then he gets kicked on the inside of the knee, then he has to hobble back to the locker room next to a line of dancing wolves cheerleaders on national TV.

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