(Thursday, November 01, 2018 3:15:00 PM)
Ingested whole, Carmelo Anthony’s tenure as a Knick was a disappointment.
No question.
Expectations weren’t close to being met. But there are also two distinct halves to Anthony’s time in New York, the good and the very bad.
With a year to reflect since he was shipped to OKC, Anthony clearly prefers…
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 11:00:42 PM)
Dallas rookie Luka Doncic will never forget his eighth NBA game.
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 11:00:42 PM)
Dallas rookie Luka Doncic will never forget his eighth NBA game.
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 4:52:18 PM)
The perception of the Knicks during Carmelo Anthony’s time with the team hurt its chances to land a top free agent, the now-Rocket said Thursday.
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 9:52:04 PM)
Here are some takeaways from the Knicks’ first few games, and what to expect moving forward…
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 9:10:42 PM)
Despite it mostly being a rough stretch, Melo said his Knicks experience was actually a positive one.
(Friday, November 02, 2018 12:19:02 AM)
The Knicks may have found a keeper — an undervalued, former lottery-pick forward signed as a summer free agent. And it’s not Mario Hezonja. Noah Vonleh, a 2014 lottery pick out of Indiana, is the Knicks new starting power forward — a slot general manager Scott Perry envisioned going to Hezonja, who has struggled, in…
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 11:52:58 PM)
The time for full reflection on what exactly transpired across 6 ¹/? seasons as a Knick will come once his career is finally over, but Carmelo Anthony offered up a preview Thursday when he arrived back home in Brooklyn. More than a year after he was traded away from what ended in a toxic situation…
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 10:47:32 PM)
If you’re looking to bear witness to Kevin Knox’s first game back from a left ankle sprain, buy a ticket for Monday’s game against the Garden. The Knicks canceled Thursday’s practice, ruining any chance of their 19-year-old prized lottery pick playing Friday in Dallas. Knox, who was cleared for practice Tuesday, will need one more…
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 1:57:07 PM)
Tim Hardaway Jr. is putting up consistent numbers befitting Patrick Ewing, but unfortunately, the pattern looks more like Carmelo Anthony as a Knick. Post huge scoring figures. Fade late. Lose. In Wednesday’s loss to the Pacers, Hardaway racked up 37 points, becoming the first Knick since Ewing in 1990 to score at least 24 points…
(Thursday, November 01, 2018 8:30:03 AM)
Five observations from the Knicks’ 107-101 loss to the Pacers on Wednesday, when the 2-6 club was outscored 13-4 to close. 1. Knicks coach David Fizdale raised two interesting issues: lacking on-court communication on offense and focus in huddles late in games. Fizdale accused some guys of not paying enough attention in the huddle, and it…
[NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: The Cavaliers Have No Cure for Life Without LeBron James (Friday, November 02, 2018 9:00:15 AM)
Suffering in mediocrity while James was in Miami did not make the Cavaliers immune to the same sickness now that he’s gone again. Firing their coach may not fix it, either.
[NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: If Carmelo Anthony Wants to Win an N.B.A. Championship, He Has a Model in McAdoo (Thursday, November 01, 2018 10:34:09 PM)
Bob McAdoo won the N.B.A.’s Most Valuable Player Award in 1975, but it wasn’t until he came off the bench for the Lakers in the 80s that he found true success.
[NYTimes] W.N.B.A. Players Opt Out of Collective Bargaining Agreement (Friday, November 02, 2018 4:11:02 AM)
The move allows players in the women’s basketball league, who have been vocal about their pay and working conditions, to start negotiating a new contract right away.
[NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: The Warriors Are Having Fun. And They May Be Better Than Ever. (Thursday, November 01, 2018 1:11:39 PM)
Stephen Curry scored 51. Kevin Durant scored 41. Klay Thompson made 14 3-pointers. Phew.
[NYTimes] Blake Griffin Isn’t Bitter. Detroit Has Made Him Better. (Friday, November 02, 2018 3:24:07 AM)
Broken promises made him a Piston, but a fresh start and a 50-point stunner have the former Clippers superstar looking forward.
101 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.11.02)”
If Kanter is so upset we should tell his agent to feel free to find any deal with expiring money and so much as a second round pick coming back. I don’t think he’ll be able to but let him try. Kanter still plays more here than he would…I think anywhere else? This is a non-issue.
Every time THJ has one of his patented 37-1-2 games I get my hopes up for trading him, but in all likelihood it’s not happening. Mills wouldn’t let Perry make a move that essentially says “my boss was an idiot who had no understanding of the NBA market.” We’re stuck with THJ, but at least his early season play has been nice. My guess is he’s back in the 54-56 TS% range before too long but I hope not!
Situations change…. I can’t believe if Perry went to Mills/Dolan and said, “Look THJr is working out and is worth what we paid for him now. Last year was ruined by a leg injury. Now if we can open a second Max spot we have a chance to land 2 real Max players in their prime and surround them with KP, Frank, Dotson, MRob, Trier, Knox and our 2019 top 3 pick and we have an EC Finals team.”
Plan B would be if no FA’s come to rent out the 75M in space for real assets and keep drafting high with all our #1 picks moving forward.
I can’t imagine a team like Washington who is in win now mode and has 124M on the books for next year (no way to add a FA) wouldn’t take THJr for the expirings of Austin Rivers and Jason Smith.
Neptune on Team Optimism? Weird. I gotta put the kibosh on all this Timmy trade talk. The FO gave us the answer when they stretched Noah – they’re not all that interested in freeing up max cap space. If they were, they would have kept Noah and tried to move him/sweetener in summer 2019 if 2 stars were interested in joining Knicks together. It’s not even clear 66m (after Noah 6m/yr stretch and Timmy dump) would be enough to sign 2 of KD/Kawhi/Butler. 72m though might have been sufficient but even that’s not clear.
Yeah, I think Mills definitely and Perry probably views Tim as a good long-term piece — which he honestly would be at a lower salary number. (And occasionally plays like he’s worth that paycheck.) Unless they get clear back channel communication that two max free agents want to come here, they’re not going to give him away just for salary relief. They’re either going to want to keep him, or to trade him for more tangible assets.
Moving Lee gets us to the point where we’d have room to sign one max free agent. If it’s someone worthy of that salary (like our favorite subject, Kevin Durant), if KP comes back healthy, and if Knox starts to develop into the player the FO thinks he can be, and/or we get a great prospect in the draft — and yes, that is a LOT of ifs — then Tim goes from being a miscast number one offensive option to third or fourth. He’d still be overpriced, but he’d be useful in that role.
How about those Kings? Fox is turning out to be a player. Sure it will all go to pieces but quite a neat little start.
Also, Gallo! Still love that guy. I said at the time that I though Gallo was better than Melo and would certainly be so going forward. Proud of that prediction.
According to Hoops Hype, we have 57.7M on the books for next year with a projected 109M cap. assuming KP’s QO and rejecting Mudiay and buying out Lance that puts us at ~60M for 8 players (is Noah considered a “player” for cap hold purposes?). Add~ 6M for the 2019 pick’s cap hold, 2M for Vonleh’s cap hold (assuming he’s a keeper) and 2 other min salary cap holds and we have 35M open now….
Move Lee and THJr and voila!
@5 Someone asked on an earlier thread which roster we’d rather have, the Kings or the Knicks? I think the early returns clearly favor Sacramento- Hield, Fox, Cauley-Stein, Bagley and Bjelica is a way better core than what we have, even with a healthy Porzingis.
Kind of crazy too, the Kings until this year were the perennial “at least there’s one team that’s more poorly managed than the Knicks” Not true any more.
I am the most optimistic person on the planet. By pure luck we have every player that should be on the roster next year (KP, Frank, Dotson , Trier, Knox, MRob) at less than market prices with a way to dump THJr and Lee for little cost of assets plus all our picks moving forward…. what’s not to be optimistic about?
There’s a difference between quality of management and quality of roster. I feel reasonably confident in the way Perry has been running things so far, but previous regimes dug him an enormous hole in terms of available talent. The Kings have frequently been a clown car (and probably lose next year’s lottery pick to the Celtics, right?), but some of their previous moves are finally paying off.
But there are a bunch of teams for whom I would trade our roster but not our front office, based on how various GMs have behaved this year. (Minnesota, for instance.)
I think Washington says no to that trade, Bob. I can’t see them paying Hardaway when they have Beal, Porter, Oubre at the positions he can play. And they if they trade for anything it will probably be for a better big.
And I don’t think we’d trade him this season just to dump his contract. Internally, I think we think his contract is working out well. But I’m confident we’d move him this offseason if we thought we could get Durant and a sidekick like Kemba.
I think you’re misreading the Noah move. It indicates the opposite, they are interested in freeing up cap space. Unfortunately, his contract is so bad that the cost to move him was too high. They’re saving the sweeteners for Lee and Hardaway if they need them.
I don’t remember what I said about Fox, aside from my normal “even great players are shitty rookies” screed, but I definitely wrote off Buddy Hield. I’m still expecting some real regression, but what I see is an O/U of 25.5 entering the season. Gotta feel pretty good about having made an over bet right now. I’d guess they’ll end up around .500, depending on how injuries go. Bjelica is not a superstar and Shumpert is probably the same old guy (although maybe he’s become a well-rested homebody now that he’s married to a woman who writes songs like “3way”) but they — I can’t believe I’m talking about the Kings here — actually have something to look forward to over the next few years. Their highest paid players:
Z-Bo $11.6M expiring
Shumpert $11M expiring
Bogdanovic $9M and $8.5M
Koufos $8.7M expiring
$50M in cap space next year, some of which will be spent on Cauley-Stein. Not that any premier free agent is actually going to Sacto, but if they put together a 40+ win core, I could see them nabbing some decent wing to replace Justin Jackson and turn that lineup into a menace.
I really can’t believe I’m writing this about the Kings.
Keeping Noah until the last minute would have given Knicks far more flexibility. They always could have stretched him if they couldn’t dump him using sweetener. Who knows maybe Timmy plays well enough so no sweetener is required. Bottom Line: Better to have kept Noah IF you want to have multiple avenues to freeing enough cap space to sign two of KD/Kawhi/Butler.
Here’s the data courtesy of Capulator presuming we dump Timmy/Courtney and then would have to hope to re-sign Vonleh using 3.5m room exception: LINK
KP Hold……….17.1m
Frank…………..4.8m
Knox……………4.4m
Mitch…………..1.6m
Dot………………1.6m
Lance…………..1.0m
Noah……………6.4m
2019 pick…….5.3m (#7 pick)
6 cap holds…..5.3m (889K each)
———————————
TOTAL====47.5M
109m – 47.5m ==== 61.5m free space (includes Noah 6.4m hit and 2019 pick cap hold)
61.5m + 2019 pick = 66.8m free space (i.e., if we trade our 2019 pick)
61.5m + Noah hold = 67.9 free space (i.e., if we dumped Noah and kept 2019 pick)
61.5m + 2019 pick + Noah = 73.2m (i.e., if we dumped Noah and traded our 2019 pick)
Conclusion:
It would take a minimum of about 66m to sign 2 star free agents (KD/Kawhi/Butler) and I doubt that would even be enough. NOTE we only have that 66m if we trade our 2019 pick. We could have had 66m and kept our 2019 pick if we had held Noah and then dumped him w/2020 pick as sweetener. Our best best to position ourselves to have sufficient cap to sign 2 of the 3 players would have been to dump Timmy/Courtney/Noah/2019 pick to get to 73.2m to ensure we have enough money
Not worth rehashing whether it would have been smarter to wait to waive Noah.
The point is they stretched him to open up $12.5mm this summer, not because they don’t want cap space.
Perry said (and I believe him) that he thoroughly researched the cost of adding a sweetener to move him and it was too much. Even if you had waited til this summer, it probably would have cost you two #1s to get out of the last year of his contract. They took a holistic view of their three year cap situation and decided that the benefit of doing it now was favorable vs the cost.
I wouldn’t go all gaga on the Kings just yet. They’re catching some teams by surprise right now, but once teams start gelling themselves and doing a better job of scouting them, they’ll hit the skids big-time. We got off to hot starts in each of the last 3 years and were over .500 at the quarter-season mark.
In about a month, we’ll be talking about the thud we heard when Hield, Fox, Cauley-Stein, and Bjelica crashed back down to earth. And there isn’t a single player in that team I would trade for KP, even with the knee injury.
Re: Durant and another star together here, it seems self defeating for Durant to leave Golden State for the expected reasons and then team up with Kyrie or Kawhi somewhere else. He’s going to hear the same criticisms and have the same need to limit his game to accommodate someone else.
They could have opened up that 12.5m AND an additional 6.4m (the stretch hold) had they they waited and been able to move Noah using 2019 pick as sweetener. I find it hard to believe some team out there wouldn’t have taken Noah for a year if they received our 2019 pick. None of the Timmy/Noah dumps would take place until we knew 2 of those stars were interested (done deal). If not done deal before draft, we make pick and then trade pick in free agency.
Well, there’s Durant and another star, and there’s Durant and a really good secondary piece. As we’ve been talking about for the last couple of days, Kemba on his own makes no sense for this team, but Durant plus Kemba plus KP, Frank, and whoever’s left after we clear the cap space for them both makes sense and also wouldn’t look like Durant is jumping from one superteam to another. It’d be a mix of young guys, him and a borderline All-Star type.
Yes, they could have. And like I said, they determined that was too much.
If you would trade a top 5 pick in the draft for an extra $6.5mm in cap space for three years then you should never be allowed to value an asset.
Using the 2019 pick as a sweetner to get rid of Noah is in my opinion far worse than stretching him now. I mean we’re looking at most likely a top 10 pick and possibly a top 5 or 3 pick. That’s another potentially good young player on a rookie contract for 4 years. The idea is to sign KD or Kawhi or whoever to add to our young core which includes our 2019 pick. Otherwise, what’s the point of “developing” (ie, tanking) this year?
And yeah, shitty teams get out to decent starts all the time in the NBA. Do people really think the Rockets are gonna stay horrible all year? I believe Orlando last year was 6-3 or something. We’ve been above 500 in December the last 3 years running.
I do love Fox though.
This I agree with. Kemba has been my primary target, as well. I also think you can package Hardaway and either Knox or our 2019 pick for a very good player.
Perry isn’t going all out for two max slots, and that’s smart. He sees one star + Porzingis + a really strong supporting piece + our core (including whoever we can draft in 2019) as a solid foundation.
If you’re getting KD and Kawhi for the 2019 pick, you do it. If you don’t do that, you wouldn’t qualify to be GM for the Albany Patroons.
Here’s the holistic cost benefit of stretching Noah:
Benefit: $12.5mm of cap space in 2019, elimination of potential distraction and bad locker room presence, retention of all assets, roster spot this season
Cost: $6.5mm of space in 2020 (when you project to be over the cap anyway, so really this is nothing), $6.5mm of cap space in 2021.
It was a smart decision to stretch him instead of paying for someone to take him. It is fair to argue (and it has been, extensively) that they still could have gotten most of the benefit by waiting til this summer. But it’s unfair to criticize Perry for not wanting to surrender young players and picks to move his contract. We need those assets more than the future cap space.
I hope the Kings stay relatively good so the Celtics don’t get a top 10 pick.
I don’t think they’re going to trade Hardaway unless they absolutely have to in order to land Durant, Leonard or someone of that caliber. Mills liked Hardaway when he was drafted. Phil traded him away for a variety of reason. Then once Phil was out Mills brought him back. Mills obviously loves him and this management team with Perry also seems to value scoring above defense. Right now they probably think they have him on an attractive contract despite his defensive and decision making deficiencies.
I think I’m unreasonably optimistic about our chances to sign KD. This scenario is too unrealistic even for me.
Nobody is arguing to have given up an asset right now to dump Noah. The argument is that it wouldn’t have cost us anything but a roster spot to have waited until summer of 2019. That extra 6.4m might have been the difference in signing KD/Kawhi. The fact that FO stretched Noah is evidence that they view landing 2 of the top 3 free agents to be a long shot and that positioning themselves to have absolute max free space was not the highest priority. That’s all that matters here. All of the “holistic” mumbo jumbo is Deepak Chopra sports talk.
I choose to think that our organization learned something from the summer of The Decision. And that’s that you don’t clear space for a dream. You do some homework. Homework that you can’t tell people about.
Mills and Perry have a close relationship with Durant’s agent. Durant’s agent is a lifelong Knicks fan. Durant’s agent was advising Mills and Perry during their coaching search. These are all facts.
I think it’s reasonable to assume Mills and Perry are clearing space because they know they have a real chance to sign Kevin Durant. Some information probably was exchanged. That makes their moves defensible, even smart.
Mortgaging the farm for the chance to add a second superstar who hasn’t been dropping hints to you? Never again. We don’t need another Jordan Hill plus two picks for an expiring contract trade.
KD and Kawhi is a pipe dream.
I agree with this. And I agree with the front office. They prioritized something intelligent: enough space for Durant and retention of all our other assets.
You’re not doing it on the “chance” of getting them. Again you don’t “mortgage the farm” until you know that KD and Kawhi were ready to join the Knicks.
I think management would be very happy if next year’s team looked like this depending on the match ups and developments:
Frank
Hardaway
Durant or Leonard
KP
Robinson
and/or
Frank
Hardaway
Knox
Durant or Leonard
KP
A lot depends on whether Frank truly wins that PG job long term and whether they can sign a real superstar caliber player. It could wind up being:
Kemba
Hardaway
Knox
KP
Robinson
In which case I may throw up.
Yeah but I don’t think KD or Kawhi would be happy. EVERYBODY would be happy though if:
Frank
Kawhi
KD
KP
Mitch
Knox
Dot
Trier
Burke
Vonleh (room exception?)
Stretching Noah before they had to made that less probable.
Or you can just talk to player’s agent and get an idea of what their player’s objectives are and plan accordingly.
The idea that Durant and Kawhi want to play together in NY is delusional. I trust that Mills and Perry know this.
If they’re all in on Durant, they know what he wants. It’s probably not “leave a super team in GS for a potential but improbable super team in NY.”
The wild card in the “let’s trade Timmy” scenarios is the fact that there are a few teams that were dubbed playoff sure bets that are definitely underperforming, and there’s a chance that if THJ keeps on putting up 22+ PPG on around 56 TS% he could be seen as the missing piece for such a team.
Wouldn’t you send him to Houston for Chriss and Knight, plus some assets? And then try to move Knight packaged with those assets? I’d do it.
That’s a good team. Don’t forget our pick that could be Barrett/Zion/Little/Reddish. Kemba is very good.
With the Kings, Bjelica and Fox are playing way over their heads right now. I’d still be thrilled if I’d bet them at over 25.5
Another idea: THJ to Philly for Bayless and Muscala.
I expect the Kings to fall on their face around December, 10th. Their roster still doesn’t make sense and Vlade is their GM. Remember Orlando last year?
It’s a good team if you want to score points, but not necessarily if you want to win games. 🙂
I wasn’t suggesting that the Kings were going to sustain this winning pace over the course of the season. They’ll probably win about 35 games (and then will somehow end up with the #2 pic which will be handed over to the goddamn Celtics)
All I was pointing out was that guys like Hield, Fox and Cauley-Stein seem to be coming into their own and figuring out the NBA game. After KP, you would definitely take Fox or WCS over anyone on our roster right now.
Yeah people really gloss over the benefit of moving on from Noah sooner than later when we discuss stretching him now or next summer.
If he was still on the roster not only would he be taking up a spot that could go to another, younger player with more potential but also its a constant distraction. If you ask him to stay at home, then his agent and the player’s union could get involved. Then you have the constant media distraction. Moving on allowed this team to focus solely on Fiz and the youngsters. I mean, Kanter is making a stink now being on the bench. Imagine if Mitch was starting ahead of Kanter AND Noah. You’re either seriously eating into Mitch and VOnleh’s minutes or you now have two overrated center malcontents on the team instead of just one. At least Kanter now is still going to play plenty. Throw Noah into the mix. It just wouldn’t be good at all. Chemistry and good morale is important especially for a young, developing team that is going to lose a lot of games. I don’t think this is a small thing.
I said this at the time that I would have cut Enes and played Noah/Kornet/Mitch/Vonleh. All of the problems you cited are solved. And cutting Baker or Mudiay for the roster spot wouldn’t have been a crippling action.
From a Zach Lowe 10 Things entry that’s otherwise about how frustrating Mario continues to be:
@34-Farfa-100%. hopefully, that happens.
No. Houston’s assets I don’t think are gonna be good, regardless of how shitty this start is. And Knight’s contract isn’t going to be easily movable. A guy who can’t play ball anymore making money through next summer. If you want to just salary dump Tim assuming he keeps up relatively similar production to what he is now you have to find a better deal than that, otherwise you’re just not a very good GM. I also think there’s a good chance Tim opts out of his contract next summer to lock in one more long-term deal at age 28.
But all the problems wouldn’t be solved. Noah would be on the bench behind Mitch and would probably be more upset than Kanter is at playing a back up role. This is a guy who physically attacked our last coach.
He attacked the coach because he was getting zero minutes. He’d be getting more minutes on the Knicks without Enes than he would on any other team in the league. Fiz is probably gonna play Mitch 15-25 minutes/game for a while so there would have been plenty of minutes for Noah. It’s not about being a starter to Noah, it’s about getting minutes. Enes off the bench is getting more minutes than Mitch.
“He attacked the coach because he was getting zero minutes.”
Oh. Well then that makes it totally justified.
Did you talk to Noah about this personally? You think a former DPOY who is making 18 million a year would be totally cool coming off the bench behind a 19 year old who last played an organized game of basketball in high school?
Our problems so far are basically Baker-Thomas-Knox-Mario really sucking (in descending order of suckitude). Ron is now out of the rotation, and I guess Knox should play when he’s healthy, but Thomas and Mario is a tough problem because we’re light at PF. If we’re trying to win maybe you could try to play Kornet as something of a stretch 4? He’d get roasted on D, but so do Mario and Lance. Maybe activate Hicks instead of Kornet?
The funny thing is that our GM was on the management team that helped build the Kings youthful roster.
(And Harry Giles has gotten off to a rough first 75 minutes, but he is a potential building piece too. Kings future is bright. It’s their present that is surprising).
And also, you’re idea of cutting Kanter. What exactly has Kanter done to deserve that?
And what kind of message would it send to cut Kanter when he’s done nothing to deserve that?
Kanter wasn’t a mistake signing by the Knicks former GM. He was brought here in a trade partially to fix a past Knicks mistake. He’s been healthy and productive. He’s never attacked a coach and never taken PED’s. He’s also much younger than Noah. I know everyone loves to shit on Kanter right now but at his current age, he could in theory be a guy we could resign if the price was right. Not that we should do that but why would the Knicks close that possible option for them? Noah was NEVER going to be a part of the Knicks future even if he came back this year and was decent off the bench.
When you’re talking about changing the culture, what kind of message does it send to give a guy another chance who attacked the coach, took PED’s and has been injured for most of the last 4 years of his career over a guy who is younger, more productive and a better teammate?
Noah wouldn’t be starting for any team in the entire league. Like I said, he’d probably be getting more minutes on the Knicks this year than any other team. Maybe he’d wanna start but I don’t think he’d be punching Fiz or even making as big a stink as a young contract-year Enes if he didn’t start but was getting more than enough minutes at this stage of his career.
fox probably is for real…. all of his numbers are in-line with last year except for his 2p fg% and his ftr… and those things tend to normalize even this early… he has has been a terror in the open floor and getting to the basket….
bagley also seems to be for real if his defensive numbers hold up…. and if it is.. he is a megastar in the making….
bjelica and some of the others are probably not for real… but they’re nba level players… fox, bagley and wcs alone are enough to keep the kings hovering close to .500 tho….
They’d probably set up the team better than that particular lineup. Let’s say you get a top 4 pick. You can go:
Kemba
Frank
Barrett/Little/Reddish
Porzingis
Robinson
or
Kemba
Frank
Knox
Porzingis
Williamson
with Burke and Hardaway off the bench plus Knox/Robinson
The problem with that group of players is you’re paying Porzingis, Kemba, and Hardaway more than they’re worth. You need Porzingis, Frank, and Knox all to hit their improbable peaks in order for it to be a real contender. The realistic ceiling for that team is second round of the playoffs.
But that team is decent.
I think Zion is going to be a superstar, so if we get him then I don’t care too much which star free agent they pursue to be honest. Of course pursue the best available ones, but I’m fine with a guy like Kemba if we have a team of let’s say Porzingis Zion Frank Knox Trier Mitch Vonleh Dotson. There’s plenty of development space with these 8 players and then it might be time to start going for established veterans. If we could add Walker to this core at a, let’s say, 4 years 100 million deal, that’s not a bad idea at all.
About Sacramento, we can’t forget about Buddy Hield. He’s been shooting like a superstar and improving everywhere else. His .637 ts% is likely to regress but he’s passing better, rebounding a lot better and getting to the line a bit more. I always liked him as a pure shooter but he’s showing a lot of improvement.
I, for one, am glad that they dumped Noah to secure Luke Kornet’s roster spot. Kornet has been huge for the Knicks this season in his…let me look…ah, yes, 11 minutes played. Disaster averted there.
There are no minutes for him if we’re playing Mitch 30mpg at center and KP at 10 mpg at center. You think Enes’ bitching is a problem now.
He’d get picked up by a contender and get minutes off the bench. Would that be such a terrible fate? And the message is that we’re focused on the future and Enes is not a part of that future.
I’m not sure what injuries have to do with anything. I don’t care who’s more productive since both Enes and Noah are placeholders this season and playing Enes doesn’t exactly help build a culture of playing tough defense. Regarding PED’s, were you against signing Trier? It doesn’t appear Perry cared that much about it either. Pushing the coach is a serious issue but it’s not like he’s got a history of that type of behaviour.
Here’s what happened with Noah.
Noah was very frustrated by not getting playing time because he felt he could still play. Then against the Warriors both O’Quinn and KP were out. He was told to get dressed and be prepared to play. Then he didn’t play. He was finally put in in the 4th quarter. Then he got pulled after 4 minutes while in garbage time to put KANTER back in (it wasn’t even to put Willy in and get him more minutes).
I didn’t see what happened. These things should never come to shoving, punches being thrown, or having to be separated. However, I would have given Hornacek an earful also. You are fighting for minutes, are told you are going to play, get 4 minutes and then get pulled for the starter in garbage time when the game is already over?
As far as Noah was concerned (and he may have been right) despite the decline, he was still the best all around C on the team and they wouldn’t even give him garbage time.
I was initially enthused by the selection of Hornacek, but he was bad. He screwed up with Willy also. Some of our problems from that period were Hornacek’s doing.
What exactly is Noah doing now?
I’m glad Fizdale is not dealing with two disgruntled veteran centers. The value of that is greater than zero.
Last seen at a Bulls game stumping for a job.
Noah wasn’t better than Kanter or OQuinn last year.
Focused on the future by choosing Noah, who was signed in 2016 over Kanter, who was traded to us (to get rid of Melo) in 2017. Focused on the future by choosing the older, worse player over the younger, better player?
That’s a really good deal. I’m optimistic that could get it done. He shouldn’t get a max but you never know.
Trier’s PED issues were before he was an NBA player. And Trier is a rookie. Next.
“As far as Noah was concerned (and he may have been right) despite the decline, he was still the best all around C on the team and they wouldn’t even give him garbage time.”
If he’s so great why has no NBA team even thought about signing him? Stick a fork in him, he is DONE.
Mario looks like crap so far and Lance is a complete waste of time. Small sample size, but Knox has looked equally bad, however they should force feed him as minutes as possible to see what they have. Either he gets better and turns out to be a good player or he continues to suck and helps the tank or maybe a little of both. It’s a win win. To repeat what everyone here already knows the overall goal is to develop the young guys as much as possible and end up with a top 3 pick. For once they need to wake up to this reality and make it happen.
so nice not to have to puzzle over horny’s rotations this year…
so, far fiz seems to be doing a really decent job with his lineups…given who he has on the roster…
Fox is shooting over 50% from mid range, 67% from the FT line and 30% from the 3 point line. Those mid range numbers are coming down. He’s also shooting 80% at the rim. Shaq never shot 80% at the rim.
On a different topic, Lee’s really odd injury has kept him from playing (or even practicing).
It’s not out of the realm of possibility that he may be unable to play again, opening up salary cap without resorting to any dumb trades (though Dolan would still have to pay Lee-fine by me…). I hope, for Lee’s case that that’s not the case.
How could anyone possibly know?
He played 40 minutes spread over 7 games and rebounded, defended, blocked shots, and made plays at decent level in those 40 minutes. In the prior year when he was actually healthy and in shape (which took awhile) he was well diminished from his best but he was still OK.
They could easily have found some minutes for him and Willy instead of Kanter (who is a boxscore darling that stinks) and O’Quinn (who they didn’t even both keeping after all that). The way it played out they should have traded O’Quinn for anything they could get (a cup of coffee and a dead guy with an expiring contract would have been better) and given Willy and Noah those minutes to see what would happen down the line. The worst case scenario is that we’d still have Willy and we’d be in the same place with Noah. That’s still better.
Are we still crying about Willy?
Joakim Noah-a center- had the following TS% his last 4 seasons in the NBA:
.482
.406
.491
.510
He wasn’t bad on defense, but he was a brutal trainwreck on offense. O’Quinn was miles better than Noah. Maybe he was more effective than Kanter or Willy overall, but it’s certainly not clear, and he definitely didn’t have any upside. There was no compelling reason to play him
Crying about Willy is a big part of what we do here. We’re not just gonna kick it to the curb.
I didn’t say he was great. I said he thought he was still the best C on the team and I’m not so certain he was wrong. None of players ahead of him were starter quality players on an NBA team and they aren’t now either.
The reason he can’t get a gig now is that he has a PED violation and is said to have attacked his coach. Who needs a backup C with a style that no longer fits what teams are looking for given the reasons he finds himself in this position to begin with. He’s more or less blackballed unless someone has sympathy for him. That doesn’t mean he’s not still all around better than some guys out there with jobs.
NOAH WAS NOT THE BEST CENTER ON THE TEAM LAST YEAR. HE WAS THE WORST.
Hornaceck might have been a bad coach but a player like Noah, if better than the other centers, should have been able to get playing time. I mean, Horns relied on veterans heavily. Noah would have seniority and clout over Kanter, Willy, and O’Quinn.
Its a logical fallacy to assume that since Horns wasn’t a good coach, he must have been wrong about not playing Noah. People who aren’t great at their jobs can still make right decisions at their job all the time. A veteran player like Noah, all things being equal, would have been more likely to play under a coach like Horns who played guys like Jarret Jack, etc…over the younger players.
@73 Stats are meaningless without context. The dude was playing half crippled for extended parts of several seasons because he was so dedicated to his teams. I am in complete agreement that his body was failing and we probably would have seen more of the same if he played, but the stats tell you nothing about what he was capable of at 100% fitness for what he had left. He looked fine when he was fit on both ends. It just didn’t last long. If he played a little defense, set some good picks, and made some good passes he would be better than Kanter. Kanter is unplayable against any good team. He should be glued to the bench.
Can we PLEASE stop with the Knox has sucked takes. He’s played 2 games. One horrible and one decent.
Jeez.
Not for nothing, but keeping Noah would have been like choosing to not pass gas. It won’t end well…
> Focused on the future by starting Mitch this season.
> Would have been focused on the future by keeping Noah to give us maximum flexibility in freeing up cap in summer of 2019.
I don’t care about last season and it doesn’t matter whether Kanter would have played better than Noah this season. This season is not about getting wins through guys who will not be on the team next year.
just remember, we’re the knicks… so we dont get the good players until they are well on their way downhill… so yea, Kemba, will be a Knick… but give him 2 or 3 more years or so…
But the point about Noah is exactly that his body was crippled, so crippled he went to PEDs and even the damn PEDs couldn’t solve it. If he was 100% healthy and could play minutes there’s no way NBA teams wouldn’t be looking for him.
He’s just 100% done, his game can’t be separated from his health.
that was a bizarre enough statement to actually make me check on the woeful ramifications of choosing – not to pass gas…
i’d go in to further detail as to some of the astonishing facts which my research led me to, but, i won’t…suffice to say that the 3rd law of physics comes in to play…
He might have gone to PED’s to speed his recovery from injury which is what many athletes have done. By all accounts he had worked himself into excellent shape last year and that is why he was so upset he didn’t get any playing time. Unlike Mudiay, he didn’t put on the pounds when he didn’t get minutes. Knicks stretched Noah after all the rosters had been set. There may be a team that picks him up later if he’s in playing shape.
Come on, Joakim Noah stunk from the moment he stepped on the floor for the Knicks. He was once a great defender, but robbed of his mobility he was actually a shitty defender. He was a black hole on offense who didn’t really defend well either and that is just factorial.
I thought it was a terrible signing the instant it was made, and it turned out to be way worse than I could have imagined.
You’re comparing him to prime Noah and the standard for a guy making 20m. Here are his stats in 2016-17 in 1015 minutes:
WS/48=.109
BPM=2.1
PER=15.2
DRB%=25.6%
ORB%=17.1%
BLK%=3.0
FTr=.386
Dime%=14.1%
TS=.51
TO%=19.7%
His TS and TO% were bad but everything else looks fine there for a reserve center. I’m on record as being opposed to signing him and he’s never been starter material as a Knick. Both he and Enes are reserves.
re: dred… he’s only shooting 10% of his shots in midrange…. he’s shooting 80% at the rim but he was also over 60% last year as a rookie…. and 60% at the rim is absolutely possible especially with how talented fox is around the hoop…. and that was in over 2000 minutes his rookie year….
so fox will probably regress a tad… but he’s not exactly playing out of his mind… he’s absolutely arrived…
I will just reiterate the fact that Horns relied heavily on playing veterans over younger players. So its a fallacy to assume that he didn’t play Noah bc he had some personal grudge against him or was just too stupid to realize he was better than O’Quinn or Kanter. Most likely Noah was getting his ass handed to him in practice by O’Quinn and Kanter and that is why he didn’t play him.
I think Fox is going to probably play well the rest of the season, just not this well. He seems to have figured out a lot more than just scoring, which bodes well for him continuing to play well. The Kings are going to start losing games, but I think they have a chance to be better than Orlando last season-it’s not just that some guys are shooting incredibly well.
@87
But the main point is “in 1015 minutes”. If you’re paying 18 million a year for a guy with this sort of production it’s already bad, and we had O’Quinn and Hernangomez on the roster. If he can’t even stay on the floor and then has to take PEDs to fix his body AND it doesn’t work, well, then he might just be past his time as a NBA player in any capacity.
I get that people want to be contrarians, but what the hell would the Knicks have accomplished by playing Noah more last season, the times he was even available to play which weren’t many? I was against stretching him, but definitely not because he should be anywhere near the court for this team.
Zanzibar…my assertion is that keeping Kanter this season and cutting Noah is looking to the future. Obviously Mitch is the future. But Kanter is at least young enough to still be a good player on his next contract. Keeping your options open with Kanter by not cutting him is absolutely in line with looking to the future. He expires this year and could maybe be traded at the deadline for something. Can you say the same about Noah? And Kanter could be resigned with us at a much more reasonable contract. We may or may not want to do that but if we kept Noah I am 1000 percent certain he would not be here with us past his current contract.
Besides, Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, OJ Mayo all got tested positive for similar stuff than Noah and they all got other opportunities to play for NBA teams. Why would Noah be “blacklisted” or something like that?
@ 93 – I don’t think he’s blacklisted. I think people know he’s washed up. He provides nothing on the offensive end and is not really a good defender anymore. I mean, his one half season here when he was healthy he air balled a fucking free throw.
Someone mentioned how easily we could have had Fox so I tried to look this up. Hold on to your hats.
For once in our history we lost out on him because we didn’t win enough meaningless games. If we’d had the 8th worst record in the NBA we’d have gotten Sacramento’s combinations and would have moved up to 3rd.
Some further ramifications: Sacramento had to go down from 3 to 5 because Philadelphia had pick swap rights. If we had won two more games that year, we’re third, Philadelphia is 5th, Sacramento is 8th. Philly loses the benefit of the pick swap. More importantly, they might have been too far out to make the terrible Fultz/Tatum trade.
Does Boston end up with Fultz instead of Tatum? Does Boston make the trade anyway and end up with Josh Jackson at 5 because we took Fox at 3 and Phoenix took Tatum at 4?
So many possibilities. All I know is one thing never fails in the NBA: the Celtics get lucky and we don’t.
Sounds like MitchRob will be our starting center for the rest of the year:
@ 95 – Hubert. If you subscribe to the theory of alternate universes then if we did have the 8th worst record, that would be an alternate reality, so the draw would not have been the same as it was with Sacto having the 8th worst record in our reality.
Deep, I know.
@96
I love this. I was cautiously optimistic when they hired Fizdale and I was a bit scared when he came out talking about changing the culture etc, because we’ve heard that so many times already with nothing working, but this is a very good step in the right direction.
The starting lineup was playing like garbage, he changed it around, went with the young guys and is keeping his plan of developing these guys and enforcing a defensive system. They should start looking for trades for Kanter right now and see how the situation develops with Lee’s injuries, as most signed players will be able to get traded after December 15th. Ideally we would get to the deadline with Kanter being traded for whatever asset and without Lee’s contract. Whatever happens for the rest of the season in terms of wins and losses is fine to me if there’s a clear plan in place, and there appears to be one.
You yourself said that Mitch is the future. If Mitch gets 30 mpg at center and KP plays 10 mpg at center (20 mpg at PF), how much are you willing to pay for a guy to play at most 8 mpg at center? If Mitch plays 32 mpg at center and KP 13 mpg at center that leaves only 3 mpg. It doesn’t make sense to pay a guy 7m/yr for that. Now Vonleh is able to play PF and center so it might make sense to pay him more than we would have paid Kanter. We need a PF/C type not a center only type like Enes.
That’s a long shot to find a team that has large enough expiring contracts to take his 20m. And some of the contenders are in the luxury tax which would make it even harder to match salaries.
I didn’t want Noah here from Day 1 even on a 2-year deal so I don’t want him after his current contract expires. But Enes is leaving here through one door this summer. Noah, had we kept him, could have exited through one of two doors and one of those doors might have been a franchise-altering departure in the right circumstances. I’ve detailed this in my discussion with Hubert.
Fizdale is really warming my heart. While he’s coaching his ass off and trying to win, he also recognizes that guys like Kanter are not our future.
And I hope that when Lee gets healthy he gets really limited minutes, strong performances by him do absolutely nothing good for this team in the long run.
I have enjoyed watching Kanter play offense, but he should not be re-signed next year. Robinson should play 30 and you can plug someone in as a backup. Take it from teams like the Heatles, Dubs and LeBron Cavs: you don’t need to spend big money on centers to be a great team. Find a guy who dunks and plays D and spend the real money on high-volume guards and wings who shoot efficiently.