(Friday, October 26, 2018 3:00:00 AM)
With his rockstar team in NYC for four days, Warriors coach Steve Kerr is actually encouraging his players to party.
“They should go out and enjoy the nightlife,” Kerr said. “And then they should play well.”
The Warriors face the Knicks on Friday and the Nets on Sunday, which, let’s face it, is…
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 8:45:00 PM)
As a billboard hung adjacent to the Garden pleading for him to sign with the Knicks, Kevin Durant said he understood and respected the excitement about his free agency in New York.
But otherwise, he’d prefer to concentrate on winning a third straight title.
“I mean, to be honest, I don’t know how…
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:05:00 AM)
If he looks up on his way to the Garden Friday night, Kevin Durant will see he’s being asked a question: Can You Make NY Sports Great Again?
The billboard is facing the main entrance of the Garden and shows the portraits of Durant and Kristaps Porzingis side-by-side in front of the Larry O’Brien…
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 2:54:49 PM)
The Kevin Durant sweepstakes have apparently started for New York Knicks fans.
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 11:57:42 PM)
As the Knicks prepare to host the Warriors on Friday night, a banner of Kevin Durant in a Knicks jersey rests outside of Madison Square Garden. Although its creator is unknown, the large, rectangular message reads: “Can you make NY Sports great again?” Durant, who’s set to become a free agent in July, is expected […]
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 10:52:41 PM)
Kevin Durant has heard about that illustration of him in a Knicks jersey on a billboard near Madison Square Garden, but the Warriors star is anything but dazzled by the recruitment effort.
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 8:05:04 PM)
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 12:51:48 PM)
The #KDNY2019 campaign has begun as Knicks fans hope to lure Kevin Durant to New York.
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 2:40:28 PM)
A marketing company set up a billboard near Madison Square Garden showing Kevin Durant, who is expected to become a free agent, with Kristaps Porzingis, in an attempt to lure Durant to the New York Knicks.
(Friday, October 26, 2018 1:01:18 AM)
Many fans have their hearts set on snagging Kevin Durant to be their latest savior. One fan is betting on a billboard to seal the deal.
(Friday, October 26, 2018 12:58:04 AM)
The Warriors landed in New York on a hot streak Thursday night, and Stephen Curry, fresh off scoring 51 points in his last outing, knows he can get even hotter at the Garden, where he scored his career high of 54 points five years ago. “Almost kind of like last night,” Curry said when asked…
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 11:46:51 PM)
David Fizdale must be a glutton for punishment. How else do you explain his eagerness to have his Knicks take on the defending champion Warriors Friday night at the Garden? Asked about the prospect of facing the best team in basketball, Fizdale used the word “awesome” and explained, “This is great for these kids. This…
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 10:34:21 PM)
Injured guard Emmanuel Mudiay appears closer to returning to the active roster, but it was a better sign for the Knicks to see prized rookie Kevin Knox on the court and hoisting shots after practice Thursday. The Knicks didn’t make their 2018 lottery pick available to the media, and there remains no firm timetable on…
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 8:44:57 PM)
Kevin Durant’s next potential foray into free agency is still more than eight months away, but his recruitment to New York already has begun, at least in the form of a billboard outside of Madison Square Garden. Durant, who is in town with the Warriors to face the Knicks on Friday night, indicated he already…
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 1:13:02 PM)
Enes Kanter has not been shy to publicly recruit star players about coming to New York, but the Knicks center claims no responsibility for the billboard posted this week near the Garden imploring former Thunder teammate and potential 2019 free agent Kevin Durant to “make NY sports great again.” “I didn’t see that, I will…
(Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:04:08 AM)
Five observations from the Knicks’ 110-87 South Beach smackdown, dropping the club to 1-4. 1. With a four-game losing streak, coach David Fizdale sounded certain he’s looking to “move it around,” referring to the starting lineup, for Friday’s game against the Warriors. The original thought was Lance Thomas would come out for either Mario Hezonja…
64 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.10.26)”
Pick your poison: who should Frank primarily guard tonight?
Definitely Curry. I’ll love to see how he handles it.
Yeah, Durant is probably too big for him right now. Curry will probably wreck him, too, but it’ll be fun to see Frank try to stop him.
Re: AD from the other thread:
While we’re talking hypotheticals, would it be worth it to us? Assume we hold onto KP, Frank, Mitch and Knox and just send out draft picks, would Davis plus this group be good enough for long enough that the loss of the draft picks? It’d make it that much harder to find another playmaker, and maintaining depth in general would be tough with that loss of picks, but holy cow would that front line be something.
Time check. Should be 9:37am ET.
Huzzah! The time is fixed! 🙂
I can’t wait to see a lineup of Frank-Dotson-Knox-KP-Mitch. Our center rotation consists of poor defenders in Kanter (sucks), Vonleh (can’t tell, but a 6’9″ center?), and Mitch (rookie). But it would be fun to watch five guys try on defense.
For tonight, I just want to see (a) more defensive lineups- Kanter and Burke never share the floor, (b) Frank start at 1- Burke just keeps letting guys blow by him to Kanter, who does the same, (c) more Dotson and Trier, less Hezonja, and (d) some semblance of an offense with a play, pick and roll, etc. It’s pick-your-poison as hell, but Frank-Trier/Dotson-Vonleh-Kanter can work.
I also think Frank consistently shows the tools to be good offensively but feels like he has to be a good boy and run the play as told by the coach. Which means he hands off the ball, and two passes later one of the few black holes gets the ball and shoots.
If Fizdale told him he MUST take 10 shots a game, three 3-pointers, has the authority to initiate a second play with a pick and roll, he could be decent or good.
Now we dance.
Back to the Rockets for a second…
I get all the reasons Morey would want to make the deal. They make sense, from his perspective.
If I own the Rockets, though, I’m not letting a GM trade draft picks beyond his contract. Morey is signed through 2021, i.e. two of those picks, both of which are the easiest ones to give up. If he wants to trade a 2023 and 2025 pick, I’m making him sign an extension or I’m vetoing the trade.
Trade makes sense for Morey. Trade makes less sense for the Rockets.
Is one, possibly two serious runs at the title with a team whose window will start to close shorty worth 4 1st round picks? (they are not a serious contender right now after weakening in the off season)
What if you think draft picks are overvalued right now because of draft rule changes and a temporary general inefficiency in the market?
What if your GM is D. Morey and you are smart enough to rebuild quickly with trades and FA signings so those picks are not worth as much to you personally anyway?
It could also be pick swaps, we don’t really know. I’d argue that with the way Minnesota is managed pick swaps could probably be even good for Houston.
I think Thibs is so damn stubborn that this will still drag out for much longer.
IMO, you should consider giving up your first born child for Anthony Davis. Four 1st round picks is a no brainer if you already have any good young pieces at all or cap space and a GM that’s not an idiot.
Your chances of coming up with Anthony Davis with 4 1st round picks is very low and as you select the first one, the remaining ones become less valuable and so on because you will keep getting better.
Fun hypothetical on the AD chat:
You’re Scott Perry. A bird flies into your room and tells you the following:
-AD, despite potentially being on the best NOLA team he’s ever manned, would be very open to playing in orange and blue. If you are serious about pursuing him, he’ll work behind the scenes after this season is over to force a trade.
-If you land AD, Durant is a lock to NY this summer.
Potential frontcourt of KP, AD and KD.
Have at it…
I’m a little surprised the reaction to the Houston news has been negative. 4 first round picks is obviously a ton, but this is a case where “flags fly forever” really does apply.
If that team is fully healthy it’s right there with the Warriors, and it wouldn’t necessarily have to last just for this season. Taking into account age related decline for CP3 and Butler (assuming they can re-sign him) I’d say it has a ~3 year competition window.
The Warriors might break up as soon as next offseason, and if things get bad the Rockets can unload Harden and Capela for multiple first rounders whenever they want. Even at advanced ages it’s hard to imagine there won’t be some kind of market for CP3 and Butler too.
there are versions of the trade that might be defensible from a not-just-morey but the rockets perspective. but they would at a minimum have to include Fertitta being willing to go deep into the tax to resign Butler (and Butler being on board). The probability lift you get just this year is too small. you might wake up and see Denver or utah or Toronto add a stud and then you are giving away a ton in an even more jammed field. Incidentally I win naive bobblehead of the week award bc I don’t believe Morey would make a deal that he though was plainly -npv for houston but good for him if he scooted. at most I think it might bias him on a marginal decision.
From a team owner’s perspective, no. From a title-thirsty GM’s perspective, yes.
In fact, from an owner’s perspective, I’d be more inclined to trade 4 picks for AD if I’m the Knicks than do this 4 picks for Butler trade. I wouldn’t do it under the scenario Jowles laughed off. You need more of a core than Knox, Robinson, and Frank.
But if I created a max slot this year and used it on Durant, Kyrie, or Leonard, and then I used my 2019 pick, for sure I would trade my 2020, 2022, 2024, and 2026 picks for 25 year old Anthony Davis. I think that makes more sense from a franchise’s perspective than going all in on one title.
CDiggy, I answered your question before I saw it!
Although, tbh, I would turn around and trade Porzingis instead of maxing him if I had AD and KD on board.
Woj was clear that it was 4 picks in 7 years, not pick swaps. The only thing we don’t know is the protection. And pick swaps are always options. You never end up getting the worse pick in the deal.
But is the lift really small? I think it’s quite big.
You take this Rockets team and replace Ennis with Butler, plus some of the minutes going to Melo and MCW… isn’t that an incredibly improved team? Isn’t that a better team than the one that took the Warriors to 7 games just 5 months ago?
Specially if you think there’s a real chance Durant leaves next summer, you do the deal and re-sign Butler and suddenly next year you are a favorite for the west. I think people are seriously underrating how good Butler is now.
I know that, my point about it being good for Houston was more of a “less bad than it sounds” one.
Right now there is no move, unless AD or Lebron or Giannis somehow had gone to the Rockets this summer, that would guarantee the Rockets can be the Warriors. But getting Butler is probably the best move to make that even possible and people have short memories forgetting that the Rockets had the Warriors on the ropes before CP3 got hurt. They lost Ariza and that set them back but Butler puts them right back where they were, possibly even slightly better than last year. I do it. I mean, we talk all the time about how a team that is a serious contender and how that is the time to go all in. This is that situation. The Rockets are the second best team in the NBA and any other era would have won a title last year. This is their shot. They gotta go for it.
And as far as Butler and his attitude goes…I mean this is a serious contending team. Not some fringe playoff team anchored around two immature overpaid players. If he is serious about winning, which he says he is, he would welcome this trade.
I’d go for it. Assuming KP is healthy you convert him to a top point guard plus another solid starter. Would LA say no to a healthy KP for Lonzo and Kuzma? I think they’d say yes. So now your core is
Max free agent this summer
With Mitch, Knox, THJ, and Trier off the bench. That’s a 60 wins team for the next half decade, potentially longer.
Westbrook and George a combined 12-44 last night. OKC is now 0-4.
Let the Billy Donovan death watch begin (again)
yeah, it’s quite small relative to the cost if we’re taking about one year. they started the year 9/1 to win. Let’s say they’re maybe 11/1 now with an alarming start and how obviously good Toronto will be kawhi looking 100pct.
adding Butler obviously makes them much better. but how much? Are they better than gsw? I would say still no, even with draymond looking oddly shitty for a week or two. Cousins might come back healthy! they are still ridiculous. if you aren’t clearly the best team, you can’t be close to 50pct to win the title. more likely, the Dubs would drop from like 60pct to 40pct or 45pct. this would leave you at something like 4-1 or 5-1 to win it all. is a 10-20 pct increase enough to give up four firsts? And that can get worse more likely than better if someone key like Toronto or Boston or Denver or Utah makes a big deal that improved them today. I would say no way, especially bc you are still an underdog to even make the finals., which also matters. I think you need more than this year for it to make sense unless you have deeply unusual utility function.
But they wouldn’t just have this year if they resign Butler. What if Durant leaves this off season after winning 3 titles? Its a serious possibility. Then you’re clearly the favorites for next year especially with Melo gone 🙂
I’m still waiting for the media to finally acknowledge that Sam Presti built another bad roster with parts that don’t fit and is somehow the highest payroll in the entire league. Dennis Schroder has a .401 ts% (!!!!!!!) in the first 4 games and is taking 15 shots a game, and the key guy they’re missing on the starting lineup is a career .257 3pt shooter, so there’s no help coming. Somehow in 2018 a GM built a team that has one good shooter (George) and was never criticized for it.
You do that deal if you’re Houston and don’t look back, assuming you have a side deal/promise that Bulter re-ups with them.
Bench: Brevin Knight, Gordon, Gerald Green, Ennis, melo. Plus whoever you can pick up later in the season
I mean, the point is to win a championship, right? This is a top 3 team for the next 2 or 3 years.
Remember “The Presti Method”? It used to drive me insane that people acted like he invented sucking for 4 years and lucking into some superstars when he had high picks.
Don’t under-estimate how valuable 1st round picks are, even if you expect them to be in the mid-twenties.
But at the same time, don’t under-estimate how good Jimmy Butler is at basketball.
So, let me try to sum up. The circumstances under which some of us agree that trading four first-round picks is not insane are:
1)To acquire a top 10-15 overall player when you have a short but unmistakable window in which to win a title. Even when that player’s window of staying that great is probably about as short.
2)To acquire a clear top 5 overall player who is likely to remain such for at least a decade, barring injury.
Presti had an amazing run in the draft, taking Durant (still don’t know wtf Portland was thinking), Landry, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden and Bledsoe all within 4 years. Then he was forced to break things up and made all sorts of wrong choices. Though to be fair, the usual suspects loved the Harden for Lamb/Keven Martin trade.
They should probably give him more than 4 games. But, yeah, it seems weird that he and his boss couldn’t pay James Harden an extra $1.5 million per year, but now is fine with the highest payroll in the league.
George is actually not a very good shooter, been somewhat overrated in that department for years.
I mean this is obviously wrong? In the last 5 years 110 players have attempted at least 1000 threes. Paul George is 24th on that list of 110 at 38% (in 2193 attempts, which is 9th most), despite it being a sample biased toward the best shooters. He shot 86% from the line over that period. He’s a very good shooter.
@32 – that’s what it seems like.
I think it’s a deeper question of how you view team-building. For example: do you believe in gradually building a perennial 50+ win team that could in certain years have a path to the Finals but maintains roster and cap flexibility? Or do you “go for it” when you have the opportunity to acquire players that should at the very least make you a perennial Conference and NBA finalist?
I believe a 25-year old Anthony Davis is the perfect litmus test between the two ideologies. Barring injury, you know what you’re getting for at least the next four years. And the Knicks are just starting to get to the point where their young players could draw a “hmmm” from teams (and yes I know, that’s been a loooooong time coming).
@19: I agree we need a premiere point guard. However, the reports are that Durant would look to be more play-maker than assassin scorer. So theoretically, if he could still do that from the SF position being 30+, you could make it work with both AD and KP (would help a bit if KP improves his passing a tad) without needing a top-flight PG.
I’m not real knowledgable about the Rocket’s situation with contracts, but if Butler re-signs it’s probably at least three years, correct? If you can reasonably expect that if things fall apart quickly that you can flip Harden/Capela/Butler for picks a la Danny Ainge then yeah, it probably is worth it.
They learned that lesson a little too well.
For me, that’s the main difference between the Rockets giving up 4 picks for Butler (a potentially reasonable plan) and the Knicks giving up 4 for AD (he’s incredibly awesome but the Pellies with a stronger supporting cast than the Knicks could offer are really just playing for the second round). The Rockets could blow their shit up if it doesn’t work and recover those or similar assets. The Knicks just wouldn’t have the talent (other than AD who probably wouldn’t re-sign if we sucked that first year).
I’d amend because I would not trade 4 firsts (including our 2019) for AD now if I’m the Knicks.
If I added a max free agent this summer and kept my 2019 pick, then I would trade 4 firsts for AD.
So basically the only time I think it’s less than insane is when it opens up a multi-year championship window immediately. It would do that for the Rockets now (presuming they extend Butler) and in the Knicks under the hypothetical circumstance.
I really hope that Durant doesn’t believe that the hecklers will stop if he goes to Charlotte or Sacto or something crazy like that. Not that those are actual possibilities, but the only way he’s going to break the heckling is if he goes back to OKC and wins a chip. If that couldn’t happen in 2012 with one of the greatest young teams ever, it sure as hell ain’t happening in 2020. I can see him trying to be a savior for some franchise like the Knicks without the realization that he’s about to lose a half step. Could very well see the next round of heckling look something like: “Durant leads Knicks to 42 wins, proving that he needed to play next to Steph and co. to win anything.”
LeBron was a fool to leave Philly on the table. Durant will be a fool to leave SF during the height of their dominance.
@ 41 – Nah man. I disagree completely with that.
Lebron was from Ohio and that fact that pushed by the media from the moment he was drafted by The Cavs. And Cleveland has this history of never winning a championship and having heartbreak after heartbreak. Lebron leaving Cleveland was viewed not just as taking an easy route by joining his super friends but also as a betrayal to his hometown.
Durant isn’t from Oklahoma. He doesn’t owe them shit. His move to Golden State was criticized solely on the fact that he joined a super team and basically blew up any chance of their being parity in the league for the next few years. He took an even easier route than Lebron in Miami bc while that was a super team they weren’t all ready assembled and hadn’t won anything.
If Durant goes to The Knicks and makes them good…its kind of similar to Lebron bringing a chip to The Cavs. Hero delivers a trophy to a franchise that has been awful for a long time. Plus the Knicks do have the prestige of the history of the franchise, the garden, etc. And he wouldn’t be joining a super team either or at least one that isn’t all ready assembled.
If he went to Charlotte or Sacramento, I think it would be met with a lot of head scratching and shoulder shruggin.
Oklahoma’s not even from Oklahoma. If Durant really wants to be a hero, he should buy a franchise, move it to Seattle, and then play it to a championship.
This is like me saying “Jowles was so dumb to move to Portland” if you could have made more money by staying in New York. Get with the generational shift already. These guys aren’t borderline psychotics like Michael and Kobe who measure themselves by how much more they have than the next guy.
“LeBron wanted to play for the best basketball franchise ever and live in LA with his family. What a fucking fool.” Yeah, that makes sense.
I’ll be DVR’ing this game tonight. Watching it live might be too painful.
As for KD, he’s looking for supermax dollars and nothing else matters to him. Unless we clear space, he’s going elsewhere.
@8 – I like the Frank-Dotson-Knox-KP-Mitch starting lineup. What I like most about it is that it’s our last 3 drafts.
I agree. I don’t even think it’s debatable.
IMO, the Rockets are not as good as they were last year. To be honest, I don’t even consider them a serious threat to GS this year unless the Warriors have a significant injury.
Butler is a huge upgrade over Ariza. Ariza is a very productive role player but he went into a coma in game 7 when they needed him to step up with Paul out. Butler is a star player that can carry a team on both ends if there is an injury and he’ll make their starting lineup as good as any in the league when everyone is healthy.
They may not win a title with Butler either, but right now they are the fast track to having to good team that can’t and won’t win the title. Paul is getting up there and Harden is no spring chicken either. IMO, they are not good enough now and are going to start declining soon. If Houston wants to win a title with this team it’s either now or forget it.
Even if they give up the picks, mortgage the future, and fail to win, they could still turn around and trade Harden and Butler for picks in 2-3 years and rebuild with Capela. It’s not like those guys are toast. They are just in the latter stages of being able to “lead” a championship team. Other teams will still want them as secondary pieces.
If Houston is really offering four first round picks, why hasn’t Minny agreed, yet?
Did you ever hear this Woody Allen joke?
“I’d never join a club that would allow a person like me to become a member.”
Durant to NY is a variation on that.
I’m not sure we should want any superstar player that wants to come to NY now. He may need a psychiatric evaluation before we give him a max long term contract.
This team is 4-6 years away from being really good assuming KP is healthy and gets better and Knox, Frank and Robinson develop into what we hope they can become. They are all kids. Even if we get lucky and get a star in this year’s draft he’ll still be 18 or 19 and 4-5 years away from peaking. Durant would instantly make us very good (as he would any team with some good players), but unless winning is utterly irrelevant to him and business considerations are primary he’s unlikely to come to NY unless somehow we open enough space to bring in another high level veteran.
5 years, $221mm in Golden State v 4 years, $164mm from us. That’s a compelling argument, too. He’s also significantly involved in the venture capital scene out there, fwiw.
If I had to handicap it, I’d go 60% GoldenState, 30% Knicks, 10% field.
The best strategy for Minny might be to use a couple of those picks to get rid of Andrew Wiggins for an expiring contract. Then they could use the cap space and leftover picks to continue the rebuild around Towns. Wiggins is like an anchor around their current rebuild. If they wait too long then the clock starts ticking on rebuilding around Towns. They have a good team now, but they need more. If Butler wants out it may be time for another reset, but they have to do it right this time.
Here’s a hilarious one: Melo, four first round picks, and fodder to Minny for Butler and Wiggins.
These kind of takes really irk me. 4-6 years? With the potential league MVP? Come on.
Do me a favor. Remember the Cavs team LeBron left Miami for. 22-year-old Kyrie Irving. 22-year-old Tristan Thompson. 22-year-old Dion Waiters. 19-year-old Andrew Wiggins. Did it take them 4-6 years, or 4-6 months?
If the Knicks sign Durant this summer and add a top 4 pick, they jump over Philadelphia and Milwaukee and are the 2nd best team in the East from day 1, with a clear chance at being the best.
And they have the flexibility to make moves to put them over the top. They can trade Tim Hardaway and sign Kemba Walker. They can move Knox and Hardaway for an all-star player like teh Cavs did. There are so many different ways they can make this team better within 4-6 WEEKS. Years!? Come on.
Did you read what I said?
The problem is that Durant is 30. That means he’s going to begin his decline before the rest of our young players are close to peak. Its going to be tough for him to win a championship in NY as the major star in several years when he would have already begun declining for a couple of years.
If I was NY, I’d bring him on board!!! We might be able to make another deal or open more space.
But from Durant’s perspective, if I looked “these Knicks” and asked myself if I wanted to waste a few years as a 2nd tier contender while I decline and they get better, I think I’d try to find another team (assuming I wanted to leave GS to begin with).
The thinking changes if the Knicks add another top veteran by opening up space or making a trade. Then it’s Durant, player X, KP, and more upside. That makes some sense. But waiting and hoping for Knox, Frank, Robinson and our draft pick to get good does not.
If KD comes to New York in a summer where we also draft Zion Williamson that would be as good as winning a championship
Strat, that was Groucho Marx, not Woody Allen.
Thanks. I’m not sure why I thought it was Woody. Maybe I heard Woody steal it from Groucho. lol
I want to clarify that I am not one of Durant’s haters. I agree that he doesn’t owe them anything — he gave his best years to them, and they traded James Harden just a season or two before he became one of the best players in the whole league, and while on a significant upward trend — but I’m saying that the only way Durant will escape the boo-birds is if he “redeems” himself like LeBron did. I don’t think it’s particularly fair, but that’s the way it is.
Also the Rockets missed 27 threes. Without that historic collapse, we’re talking about Houston Rockets, 2018 Champions, and maybe this whole idea that there are no good teams but GSW goes out the window. Maybe we should strip Magnus Carlsen of his “world’s best chess player” status since he plays 1. e4 and 1. d4, the statistically best openings in chess, most of the time. Maybe he can only be a real champion if he plays bullshit openings like 1. f3 and still manages to beat his opponents.
Not sure I agree with your assessment, there.
So they don’t measure themselves by how much more winning they’ve done, but he wanted to play for the most storied, prestigious basketball franchise ever… because…. because…?
Last 5 years FG%:
He’s not a Melo level volume scorer, but I wouldn’t call him a very good shooter either
Nah, haters gonna hate. And as mentioned above, KD doesn’t have a hometown hero story he can use to shift opinion unless he goes to DC and he still wouldn’t be the prodigal son. And does anyone have sympathy for the Wizards the way they did for the Cavs?
Minny might still want to compete for a playoff spot this season, so the draft picks might not be what they want.
Woody’s line is: “Those that can’t do, teach; and those they can’t teach, teach Jim Dolan.”
If we’re counting all shots attempts equally, sure. I don’t see the point of doing that.
Take my Timmy, please.
Well, Butler is listed with an “illness” for tonight. Something might be up.