Knicks Morning News (2018.06.27)

I think this regime has a lot of hubris (like most) thinking they can just “coach up” kids that have big holes in their games. It’s certainly not out of the question, but it’s a bad bet.

Everyone drafted before #9 other than Doncic and maybe Ayton needs to be coached up to a significant degree.

It’s going to be an interesting summer for free agents. There’s an unusual number of young players coming to the end of rookie deals who could be had and who retain some upside: randle, hezonja, Parker, for example. Not much cap space so a buyers market.

Kawhi and Kyrie are long shots for us next summer and though in their primes, are a few years ahead of our current core. If Kanter opted out, I’d at least look at one or two of these guys as potential blocks and if the price was right, would be open to locking up some 2019 money.

Also, Milwaukee is allegedly interested in Kanter. A lot of the talk of them matching Parker stems from the fact that they’re over the cap either way and wouldn’t want to lose an asset for nothing. Is a two-way S&T centred around Kanter and Parker the worst idea ever, if the price is right? Takes out the risk of then matching an offer.

I learned from the last thread that KP is really a SG since he spends so much time on the perimeter. Calling him a PF or C is just semantics.

So I’m glad that we drafted a real PF who played SG in college.

Totally in awe of Ocasio-Cortez’s win over Joe Crowley last night.

Knox was the leading scorer on his team in his only year. My issue with this guy is simply, does he want to play? Or make money?

I learned from the last thread that KP is really a SG since he spends so much time on the perimeter. Calling him a PF or C is just semantics.

So I’m glad that we drafted a real PF who played SG in college.

I guess you’re trying to be snarky or something, but if you can’t see the difference between Knox’s role at Kentucky (running endlessly off screens) and KP’s (PNP/PNR/post-ups) then I’m not sure what to say.

(That said – KP is really good running off pindowns etc. and i think they should do that more)

Wasn’t Jabari Parker upset about playing time in certain situations (mostly because he played no defense). On the surface he looks like a pretty good player, but if you dig deeper and throw in the injury risks I’m going to have to vote “no” on that one.

Yeah, I’m being an ass, but I do believe words have meanings. If you’re going to make post after post stating that he played SG when he didn’t, I’m going to call you on it. Plus I’m tired of the “once the Knicks get a hold of him and put him his proper role……” thing.

Knox did absolutely nothing above average, and was astoundingly poor in so many areas. In the long run you’re better off taking guys who actually produced and displayed certain skill sets like Mikal (safe play) or SGA (a real “rolling the dice / upside” pick). If you’re worried about age then I see the anti Mikal argument, but for crying out loud SGA was also a freshman and was better at everything than Knox.

Knox did absolutely nothing above average, and was astoundingly poor in so many areas. In the long run you’re better off taking guys who actually produced and displayed certain skill sets like Mikal (safe play) or SGA (a real “rolling the dice / upside” pick). If you’re worried about age then I see the anti Mikal argument, but for crying out loud SGA was also a freshman and was better at everything than Knox.

Yeah SGA would’ve been ok too but he’s a combo guard that really has no chance of playing the 3/4 position that we needed. So he would’ve fallen into the huge glut of combo guard types that we already have.

Mike or someone, how do you actually use the Knickerblogger search engine to search for old posts? If I want to see what I posted in the past, I can’t manage to do it with any of the Knickerbocker search options.

Yeah SGA would’ve been ok too but he’s a combo guard that really has no chance of playing the 3/4 position that we needed. So he would’ve fallen into the huge glut of combo guard types that we already have.

The problem there is that since Lee is not part of the future and THJ is not particularly, you know, good, the Knicks “needed” a combo guard, as well. Letting Lee and THJ impact their drafting decisions (if that is, indeed, what happened – I’m not saying that it is) is not a good idea.

Yeah, they wanted a 3/4. But drafting for need is silly at this point. I can understand not taking Zaire though for that reason, but SGA looks like more of a PG type to me than a combo guard. Him and Frank in the backcourt could have a chance of being something – that’s the kind of upside I’d be looking for. If you really want to swing for the fences then Porter was the pick. Or Robert Williams.

Meh!

The problem there is that since Lee is not part of the future and THJ is not particularly, you know, good, the Knicks “needed” a combo guard, as well. Letting Lee and THJ impact their drafting decisions (if that is, indeed, what happened – I’m not saying that it is) is not a good idea.

Frank is going to be that future starting “combo” guard.

Assuming that happens, Hardaway will probably eventually move to the bench unless he breaks out.

They also have eyes for Kyrie at PG – which would cinch moving Frank to primarily SG with some backup PG.

OK, so next year’s team is Kyrie, Frank, Knox, Zion Williamson, KP – with Burke, Timmy, Trier, Troy Williams, O’Quinn and MitchRob off the bench.

I can dig it.

Two things seemed to hold Kevin Knox back the most as a freshman at Kentucky; his ball handling and his conditioning. Playing defense with your arms down is a tired thing, so is settling for jumpers (which is also a ball handle thing) and not crashing the glass.

It’s probably not a good idea to invest a lottery pick in a guy with stamina issues, but Kevin Knox might be a different case from a lot of guys. He didn’t reclassify (a lot of the top high school players are actually 5th year high schoolers) and he came out of a smaller high school basketball program than the Montverde, IMG, Sierra Canyon, or Oak Hill type of prep school programs you normally see the top kids coming from. All of Knox’s film looks like a guy who played at one speed, and it wasn’t a particularly fast one. He’s built like an athlete but doesn’t play like one, and his stat profile would agree. It’s possible that Knox is just a guy with poor conditioning and he’ll always be that way, but he could be a guy who just needed a professional level training staff and workout regiment to get him to perform at peak levels.

Being in better shape could be the difference between 5 and 8 rebounds/36, 4 and 8 FTA, and more energized team defense. I don’t expect him to become a world class athlete like LeBron, but he does have the build to be one of the better athletes in the league. The play types are night and day, but he’s built a lot like Robert Covington. I’m not sure how valuable a bizarro Robert Covington is, but that might be who we drafted.

I learned from last thread that some people probably never watched Kevin Knox play a game in college last year and are basing every opinion of him on draftexpress and some articles on the internet.

I learned from last thread that some people probably never watched Kevin Knox play a game in college last year and are basing every opinion of him on draftexpress and some articles on the internet.

I saw 1 game. 🙂

I haven’t expressed many opinions on his skills other than what’s in the boxscore. Most of my more positive comments have been related to size, age, and positional need relative to Mikal who looks a lot better on paper. I’m deferring to our scouts to recognize that there’s more there than meets the eye (or in this case boxscore). 🙂

@32 – laughing because I honestly don’t even remember who CJ Leslie is yet apparently Cleanthony reminded me of him

I’m a little disappointed no one wanted Jokic in that thread!

@ 30 – here is my honest phil jackson assessment a year later.

He made a TON of mistakes. He thought he could do a half rebuild/half compete thing and was so arrogant thinking he could change Melo with the Triangle. He was actually somewhat rebuilding and I think for the most part I can get behind what he did up until his last season. The Rose and Noah moves (less so Courtney Lee), getting rid of Rolo (who he signed to a good contract), really set us back. If he had truly been smart he would have not resigned Melo and really started collecting assets. But he didn’t go completely off the rails until his last year.

BUT despite everything, Phil Jackson was a necessary step for this franchise because he did one VERY important thing. He convinced Dolan to give up control of The Knicks and let GMs do their job. He convinced Dolan to just focus on his music and let the basketball people do their jobs. Honestly my biggest fear when Phil got fired was that Dolan would think he needed to get back involved but I think the time away, touring with his band, etc…made him realize Phil was right even if Phil was the wrong person for the job.

Which is why I think it can be frustrating when the “realists” say stuff like “yeah no way the Knicks are gonna do something right. We signed Eddie Curry.” or whatever. The sins of the past should not be attributed to Perry and we should be willing, however difficult it is, to give this regime a chance. The moves that have been made since Perry took over have been largely decent to good with a few questionable moves (to some), but nothing hugely stupid and a lot of the moves are still playing themselves out. And there are so many moves to be made before we can really assess if things are working or not. But I see relative competence and so I’m going to believe. Believing is the harder position to take. Being negative is the easy choice.

@32 – laughing because I honestly don’t even remember who CJ Leslie is yet apparently Cleanthony reminded me of him

I thought Cleanthony Early had a chance to be pretty good. I was mesmerized by his boxscore scoring and TS% in his final year and forgot to look at how old he was and the competition he was playing against. 🙂

I thought Cleanthony Early had a chance to be pretty good. I was mesmerized by his boxscore scoring and TS% in his final year and forgot to look at how old he was and the competition he was playing against. 🙂

Lol

But I hope the implication you are making turns out to be correct!

I didn’t say you were idiots. And I’m not talking about reddit homers who do not criticize the Knicks at all. I’m talking about objectively looking at hte present situation and the present group of people in charge, looking at the fact that we’ve got young teams, a development coach and all of our future draft picks going forward, cap space coming up in a few years…and choosing to be hopeful that we can be a good team because there are plenty of reasons to be hopeful instead of fixating on the past, which is the past.

@ 40 – I just remember reading the long interview/article with Phil when he first took over and he talked about how he had a super long “heart to heart” with Dolan at a party in Los Angeles like a month before he hired Phil. Phil basically convinced him in that talk to give him the job but a big part of his pitch was that he should give up control of the day to day and focus on what he loves, which is music. Basically telling Dolan look you’ll make money off the Knicks no matter what but you’ll really make money if they’re good and the only way for them to get good is to let the people who know basketball do their jobs. And that he would be a happier person in general if he just focused on what he loves, which is music.

Mills has been around. And yes, that is cause for concern but I don’t remember him being the main guy back then. And we’re assuming that no one who was part of the knicks back then is capable of changing their tune, which I just don’t believe. I don’t know how much power Mills had then vs. now but maybe him being around is a positive because he’s seen all of the mistakes they made and has learned from them.

@ 38 – sorry but what?

Did you think we would draft a perfect player at 9 who didn’t need development? Is that player Mikhal Bridges in your mind?

The reason why I say believing is the harder choice is because being negative means you can always change the goal posts. If you’re negative and the Knicks win 10 games next year, then you were right (even if it lands us a top pick, you get to bitch all season about how awful we are). If we win 25 games, you can bitch about how we’re not tanking properly. If we make the playoffs as an 8th seed, then we aren’t really a contending team and how stupid are we to be an 8th seed or a first round exit. If we’re a 50 win team that can make the 2nd round…well we’re good but not good enough to really compete so we’re stuck and I can still be negative. The only way the negative person CAN’T move the goal posts is if we win a championship. So its the easier position to take because even if The Knicks rebuild and are eventually a good team unless they actually win it all, you can move the goal posts and talk about how we screwed up the rebuild. But only one team wins it all every year. So being positive is the riskier position to take bc it requires a leap of faith that negativity does not and it opens you up to more ridicule and “I told you so” than being negative does.

Baker was signed for 4 million and expires this year. Hardaway is a slight overpay but is in his prime and there are far worse contracts out there. Willy doesn’t play defense. McBuckets I liked but not really a difference maker. Bridges was your preference but you can’t say either way what the right move was. The Knicks went with youth and physical skills because they hired a development coach.

@51, it’s like you didn’t even read @42 and just wanted to go on a rant about negativity.

Did anybody see Ian Begley’s huge 4 picture tweet where Trey Burke is talking about how Fizdale makes them work on lay ups for 45 minutes a day? I guess Fizdale isn’t playing around when it comes to teaching these guys the game.

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1011938658742661121?s=20

@56 +1000

I can see lots of reasoned arguments on either side about Knox. Either way, he seems like a likeable and rootable kid. I hope he pans out.

But we have to get beyond this ‘hardaway wasn’t such a bad contract’ idea. Hardaway if you DONT already have Lee MIGHT be a decent player for 12m per. Even then I think you could debate it.

Giving him 17m when you already have Lee and aren’t close to being good is terrible asset management. That and the baker contract are the difference between us and $20m of space to use absorbing contracts to accumulate assets or to use on a below market value deal in a tight FA summer. You don’t get better giving 17m to a guy whose ceiling is ‘might make that contract look about fair in a vacuum’ when your overall position is that of the Knicks in 2017.

Did anybody see Ian Begley’s huge 4 picture tweet where Trey Burke is talking about how Fizdale makes them work on lay ups for 45 minutes a day? I guess Fizdale isn’t playing around when it comes to teaching these guys the game.

Real good stuff.

Did anybody see Ian Begley’s huge 4 picture tweet where Trey Burke is talking about how Fizdale makes them work on lay ups for 45 minutes a day? I guess Fizdale isn’t playing around when it comes to teaching these guys the game.

Fisdale said he’s going to straighten Mudiay out. He liked the move to get him. Ugggh

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=22370357

no one I ever vote for has won.

I’m 59 and I’m still waiting for a candidate at any level that I like that even has a chance.

As soon as the democrats flood Texas with enough immigrants to turn that state blue they will love the electoral college. 🙂 Until of course they assimilate, start moving up the economic ladder, and slowly start switching parties like all the immigrants before them – including my family. 🙂

Mudiay is so fascinating; there is not one basketball related thing he’s good at, yet here he is going on year 4 in the NBA, earning $14 mil. At least some guys are tall, or can shoot, or can dunk, or are gritty, or can take up a lot of space, but he’s abnormally useless.

@65 so true lol.

– My first vote was for Perot in the Clinton/Bush election.

The electoral college is bad every year because it’s an anti-democratic system designed to give slave states greater political power.

So you’re saying it worked perfectly…?

In other news, I love that no one commented on the Noah story. Collective yawn. But from my point of view, what we do with that contract has the potential to be as Knicksy as anything else over the next year. Stretch waive is probably a bad idea in September. If he’s healthy and playing well, that’s also not good for us – the young guys need the reps, and the team needs the Ls.

Is there any positive outcome possible with the guy?

Why is the electoral college only bad when Democrats lose? It’s in place to prevent the few large states from deciding the presidential election.

I truly resisted taking the bait but…”the few large states” meaning the ones with the most human beings in them? Because yes, that was the intention, and a large consideration was protecting the “rights” of slaveowners.

I learned from last thread that some people probably never watched Kevin Knox play a game in college last year and are basing every opinion of him on draftexpress and some articles on the internet.

How are you possibly this insufferable?

I like Baker but it was a dumb signing at anything above the minimum.

I was never sold on Hardaway Jr. so even at $10 million per without a trade kicker it wasn’t a move I would endorse.

Those are the only two moves that are completely attributable to Mills, so the less impact he has on player decision-making going forward, the better.

As to Perry, I really like him so far.

I think he got good, if not great value for Melo (how great is it to know that he’s someone else’s albatross this offseason for the first time in forever?)

The Mudiay move was dumb but largely inconsequential. McDermott was not coming back anyway and it’s essentially a 2nd round pick that can be replaced for an underperforming 22 yo.

Troy Williams was a good find.

Jury is out on Knox, Robinson and Trier.

Fizdale is a good hire. I would not have liked Blatt, JVG, or Mark Jackson (who the pessimists were convinced was the guy.)

Neither Perry nor Mills has said or done anything embarrassing of late, i.e. the circus atmosphere has largely dissipated.

Soon-to-be FAs like Kyrie are suggesting that NY is a favorable destination.

So, all in all, there is more logical cause for optimism (or at least for tempering the pessimism somewhat) than at any time in the past 20 years.

44 wins is my prediction. I think Melo will have a bounce back typical Melo year and good chemistry, decent defense and a strong/young bench will allow us to sneak up on teams. I think teams like Atlanta, Toronto and even Washington will take a step back. Cleveland is going to coast most of the season as they try to get healthy. Lebron could break down this year. He’s gone to the Finals 5 straight times, eventually that wears on even a superhuman like him.

I started enumerating the wrongness, but I think it’s more fair to say: all of it was wrong.

Is there any positive outcome possible with the guy?

It will be tough to get Noah minutes if Kanter stays, O’Quinn returns, and we are trying to get Robinson some minutes. Maybe if he’s looking good and O’Quinn leaves we could use him as the backup and then shop him towards the end of the season to someone that’s desperate for help at C.

One burning question of free agency is whether Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Will Barton will combine to get less per year than we gave TH2.

So, all in all, there is more logical cause for optimism (or at least for tempering the pessimism somewhat) than at any time in the past 20 years.

You know, I think this is actually true. Except for that brief bit during the D’Antoni years, before we traded away everything for He Who Shall Not Be Named. But even then, we didn’t have a Zinger. If KP is done after his surgery, well, OK, there is still little hope. But if he is OK, then we are in a decent place.

@83
My actual worry is that Noah is good again, and gets us wins, and screws with our draft position. I would feel better about that happening with KOQ, who at least could be part of a strong core in two years, but it would be utterly pointless with Jo.

(I’m pretty sure there are no more slave states)

I’m a lot less sure….

No, there are no actual slave states, but the mentality obviously still exists.

The primary reason the electoral college exists is that the founders believed the general population was a bunch of dumbasses that might some day be manipulated by a “cult of personality” or “foreign government” to elect someone that would be dangerous to the country. However, they didn’t want congress to have all that power either. The electoral college was a kind of compromise. The population has a big say, but the electors (who presumably are more informed than the dumbasses) actually determine the outcome. In an extreme situation they could override the vote “just in case” the dumbasses voted in an idiot or traitor.

I’d say the founders were quite remarkable men despite the flaws of the time. lol

(the distribution of the electors relative to population was the effort to help smaller states in the same way all states have 2 senators no matter what the population size)

The only slaves or “slave mentality” that exists currently in this country = the people locked up in our prisons for the non-violent crime of putting substances into their bodies that the State doesn’t approve of.
That’s both factorial and bipartisan. One of the million reasons I don’t identify with either of the 2 thug parties.

So, all in all, there is more logical cause for optimism (or at least for tempering the pessimism somewhat) than at any time in the past 20 years.

This could also be a tweet from Mitch McConnell.

I was in love with the 90’s Knicks too.

But the thing is…the 90s Knicks were BEFORE the 2000s Knicks which is when all the stupidity started. Also, in the 90s the franchise was 20 years away from their last title…now its more than 40. Fans are more angsty now and the shitshow of the 2000s (and indeed the 2010s) hasn’t worn off. So the LOLKNICKS virus is still infecting A LOT of fans who if they were fans of another NBA in our exact position would feel a lot more optimistic now than they do because they’re Knicks fans.

I made that SCOTUS comment before Kennedy decided to fuck liberal democracy for another generation. Fuck this.

We’ll always have Pat Cummings.

Politicians and the media specialize in trying to polarize us, and they’re doing a great job.

When people stop listening to these assholes and learn to think for themselves and treat people as individuals rather than agency-less parts of some evil demographic it will be a good day.
And this goes for all sides, whether you’re talking about “welfare moms in the hood with 12 kids” or “toothless cousin fucking crackers in Dumbfuck, Iowa” or “gang-banging Mexican rapists” or “hipster, skinny jeans wearing baristas with gender studies degrees”.
The only optimism I have in this regard is that in real life, hanging out with normal people of all races, ages, sexes, whatever, and we all seem to get along fine. I imagine it’s like that for most people, but then you turn on MSNBC or Fox News and it looks like there’s a civil war brewing, with the talking heads cheering it on.

Wayyyy off topic sorry, but I didn’t start it.

The only optimism I have in this regard is that in real life, hanging out with normal people of all races, ages, sexes, whatever, and we all seem to get along fine. I imagine it’s like that for most people, but then you turn on MSNBC or Fox News and it looks like there’s a civil war brewing, with the talking heads cheering it on.

Sure, but not many women are going to have a casual chat with you about the coat-hanger abortion they had to have because of a bunch of Christian Sharia fanatics decided that they ought to re-create a black market for a medical procedure. Not many queer people are going to chat you up about how they are unable to get much-needed medical insurance from their committed domestic partner because the zealots being pushed into SCOTUS seats think that gayness is a biblical abomination.

Don’t let your privilege blind you to the struggle of others.

“I made that SCOTUS comment before Kennedy decided to fuck liberal democracy for another generation. Fuck this.”

Spoken like a true overreacting, the sky is falling, Democrat . Good job.

Why is the electoral college only bad when Democrats lose?

Yeah, remember all those times the Republicans won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College? Whatabout those, amirite?

Although I’m sure if that ever did happen, Republicans would not be upset at all and probably say “yeah but whatareyougonnado.”

Frank Ntilikina will never be a PG and we should have drafted Donovan Mitchell!!!

(Only kiddin’, just trying to derail the Electoral College convo…)

(well, not really…)

I think the reasoning behind the electoral college was sound at the time but that it needs to be updated, kind of like the NBA draft. It was supposed to protect the less populated states from the larger populate states but now I think it gives them too much power in the most important election we have, the presidential election. If you added more electoral votes to the more populated states, I think this would balance it a bit more. Most of those would be democrat states but not all of them. Texas, for example, would add votes in this scenario.

The other option is to not make every state winner take all on the electoral votes. I mean, its kind of messed up that Gore “lost” Florida by like 300 votes and got no electoral votes from that state. If we proportionally divided it more, then it would be more fair. I believe every state should have 2 senators bc we don’t want the more populated states to have all the power. But the presidential election needs to be more fair. Hillary got 2 million more votes than Trump. That’s not a small number. There are states that Trump won that have less voters than that.

It’s okay, Kanter, don’t feel like you have to stick around to mentor Robinson!

https://nypost.com/2018/06/27/enes-kanter-clue-ready-to-mentor-knicks-athletic-rookie/

I just love how full of shit Kanter and his team sound in all of this. We all know you’re not walking away from a $20 million payday for this season, dude! This pussyfooting around is so silly. “I dunno, a lot of teams are interested in me. No, seriously. So, maybe you want to extend me? Maybe?”

I mean, hell, maybe he really is that dumb, but almost certainly he is not. So he will come up with some nonsense like, “I really liked what I saw from Allonzo Trier, so I’m going to opt in.”

He probably does honestly believe that the team would be better off with him on the team long term.

Rama, thanks. But I tried that and searched on KnickfaninNJ and most of the option give spurious results, and when I did get some of my posts i found they were all from a long time ago. It was impossible to sort by date, for example.

Piss off. You don’t anything about me or my backround.

You could be a gay, black Jewish paraplegic man and you’d still be privileged when it comes to reproductive health according to our newly-zealous Supreme Court.

Kanter is sure to opt in considering the 20,000,000 salary and his relative young age.

Contributing to meaningless wins would not be helpful.

There are some NBA players who I could imagine doing elaborate pun-based photo posts, but I don’t think Kanter is one of them. 🙂

I think it is more likely that he is just referencing that he has to make a decision between being in or out.

I think Kanter opts in, not just because of the money but because he will be the team’s best player and doesn’t have to worry about playing time. It can’t be about winning, right?

I just wish all the Trump supporters on this site would come out. It would make things a easier to put in perspective when responding to their knicks’ opinions.

I am not a Trump supporter, but I don’t want to know who is one. I’d rather just talk about Basketball. I see no reason a Trump opponent would be more knowledgeable about basketball than a Trump opponent. We can agree to disagree about Trump, and have fun talking about something else.

Ok jowles you made me laugh. I’ll leave it at that .

Maybe the Knicks should follow this administration’s lead. Let’s turn back the clock to 1973 by signing Clyde and Willis. It worked once, there’s no reason it won’t work again!

#MKGA

As I said in the other thread, the only thing I can think of is that they give us draft picks to compensate us for taking on Mahinmi.