(Wednesday, March 07, 2018 1:45:49 AM)
PORTLAND, Ore. — Jeff Hornacek is still pushing the Knicks to win games, and working on things he believes will help them next season — even if next season isn’t guaranteed for him.
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 11:23:15 PM)
PORTLAND, Ore. — Starting center Enes Kanter will reel off a list of reasons why he wants to stay with the Knicks next season. But the Turkish big man won’t say whether it’s 100 percent definite. Not until he hires a new agent. Kanter has one year left on his contract and is set to…
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 7:49:22 PM)
PORTLAND, Ore. — The Knicks starting lineup changes couldn’t do anything to change the recent brilliance of Blazers point guard Damian Lillard. Frank Ntilikina finally made his first NBA start Tuesday alongside Emmanuel Mudiay and Michael Beasley got benched. The moves ignited the Knicks for the first few minutes, but soon Lillard took over and…
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 5:32:17 PM)
PORTLAND, Ore. — Frank Ntilikina finally made his first NBA start Tuesday night but the opportunity came because of unfortunate circumstances. The rookie was inserted into the lineup as the starting shooting guard versus the Blazers when Courtney Lee left the team earlier in the day after a death in his family. Though Ntilikina was…
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 2:23:59 PM)
PORTLAND, Ore. — When the Knicks entered the All-Star break with their hideous choke-job loss to Washington, Jeff Hornacek absorbed an inglorious milestone — his 200th loss as an NBA head coach. With the Knicks smack in developmental mode emphasizing minutes for younger players, Hornacek’s career won-loss record — which is 156-204 after the Knicks’…
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 5:10:01 PM)
Frank Ntilikina finally got his first NBA start Tuesday against the Blazers.
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 1:21:51 PM)
It happened again. Even though they said it wouldn’t this time, not with a group “that’s going to fight to the end no matter what.”
(Wednesday, March 07, 2018 12:33:10 AM)
Damian Lillard continued his torrid post-All-Star break run with a 37-point effort as the Trail Blazers cruised past the Knicks, 111-87, on Tuesday night.
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 8:57:31 PM)
Knicks rookie Frank Ntilikina is in the starting lineup on Tuesday night for the first time in his career, the team announced.
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 8:39:49 PM)
PORTLAND, Ore. — The Portland Trail Blazers have been on a sweet ride of late, and they want very much for it to continue.
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 6:13:56 PM)
Knicks SG Courtney Lee will miss Tuesday night’s game against the Trail Blazers due to personal reasons, the team announced.
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:12:24 PM)
NEW YORK — Charles Barkley may be known as a notorious Knicks hater, but fresh off hosting “Saturday Night Live” last weekend, Barkley now says the Knicks are in their best position in years, and can continue to build a playoff team via the draft and their young players.
(Tuesday, March 06, 2018 11:20:03 AM)
In his Knicks audition, PG Emmanuel Mudiay hasn’t had the best of starts. But that doesn’t mean that head coach Jeff Hornacek has given up on the 21-year-old.
105 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.03.07)”
That almost has to be a factor. Hornacek can’t be this bad at evaluating players. It’s hard to even imagine how badly Mudiay is playing. I feel sorry for him. Maybe NY wasn’t the best place for him even though this is where he wanted to come. There’s a lot of pressure here and he’s got to know that if he doesn’t turn it around a bit, this could be his last contract in the NBA.
I honestly don’t remember a worse PG than Mudiay. I’m very tank happy about him playing these last 20 games, but I don’t want to see him play even a single minute for us after that.
Toney Douglas was better.
Mardy Collins was better.
D’Antoni Marbury was better.
He’s just awful all around.
only watched the first 6 minutes of last night’s game, and wow was that a garbage call on Frank’s 2nd foul.
NBA really has to do something about dudes jumping into defenders and somehow the defender gets called for a foul. There should be some semblance of what a “normal shot motion” is and when the shooter goes completely outside that norm to draw contact, it should be a no-call or an offensive foul – especially on a jumper (ie. not on runners or other things where both offensive and defensive players are in motion).
Mudiay is awful and I don’t have any confidence that this coaching staff knows how to develop anyone. And meanwhile Hornacek (and Phil?) let Longstaff go to become G-league coach of the year or whatever.
Mudiay is doing exactly what he was meant to do. That’s why I don’t understand why people are so upset about the trade. He was either going to keep playing like garbage and help the tank, or show some promise and be in the PG mix for next year. He’s doing the former. If he helps us move up a spot or two in the draft relative to where we’d be without him, he’s worth the loss of the 44th pick and McBuckets (who was actually a negative value for us because he might have added wins).
Frankly, if the plan is to tank again next year, which may be the best course of action even with the flatter lottery odds, I’d like to see him get 15 mpg then too.
Midian being on the team means no more PG minutes for Frank, effectively writing him off as a PG or wasting 20 games of development as one.
I definitely would’ve packaged that second round pick with our first to move up a slot or two in the draft, so the Mudiay experience will all be worth it if he tanks us into the 7/8 spot in the lottery. Otherwise, and stop me if you’ve heard this before, the whole thing will just be an embarrassing waste of time.
He must be wiping the floor with everyone in practice though!
For the all the blundering this FO has done, letting Longstaff go really irks me. He could of been Horny’s replacement, keeping a good rapport with the players and keeping KP happy.
The big problem with this team is we absolutely have no talent. I love Frank Ntilikina but he’s some years off. Mudiay is terrible, and Beasley/Kanter are terrible defenders. This is what we needed if we were going to land a better pick this year, and we should be favorites to win the RJ Barrett lottery. But man is there no talent on this roster.
I complained about the Longstaff firing at the time, as well, and I remember the familiar refrain of “The Knicks must know something we don’t if they’re getting rid of Longstaff.”
Yeah, I think the biggest downside of Mudiay is that he’s taking PG minutes away from Frank. Originally, I was in favor of seeing Frank play off the ball a little because he played that way in France and we still aren’t sure if he’s going to have the handle, quickness, and aggressiveness to become a full time PG. The problem is, without the ball, one of his best qualities is diminished. He’s not getting as many opportunities to make plays and get assists and he’s not making up for in other ways like more scoring and rebounds. So it feels like it’s net negative move for him personally over and above less development. If he lost the PG position to someone that was a LOT better, then it might make some sense to sacrifice a little from him to get a lot more out of the PG position. But with Mudiay, that’s just crazy. Frank is the better player right now by far. He should be starting at PG or at least playing with Burke.
I should have known last night when I was excited that they were finally starting Frank that it wasn’t going to go the correct way. I really don’t get why Mudiay can’t work through his shit on the bench. He’s probably never going to improve, but if he’s going to improve, he can do it while getting back-up minutes, can’t he? Frank is the clear future of this team (of the non-injured roster, that is), so just give him the keys to the offense and see what he can do!
As someone noted the other day, the inconsistency between their treatment of Mudiay and Willy is aggravating. It best not come down to simply, “Mudiay is a guy we traded for, so we have a more vested interest in seeing him work than Willy, who was Phil’s guy.”
Part of us wants to believe there must be rational explanations for the things the team does even when we don’t know what they are. That’s probably true sometimes. But sometimes they are just stupid.
what i don’t get is why mudiay was immediately handed the starting role…. frank and burke were absolutely more familiar with the offense…. if we’re all about culture that’s not really a culture move to promote someone without merit….
i said that at the time of the trade, it annoys me so much that Hernangomez was buried in the bench and traded for garbage 2nds while Mudiay cost us a current 2nd and is guaranteed minutes while having a .393 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ts%.
If the season post-KP injury was going to be about playing young guys no matter the result, which is the only reasonable possibility for Mudiay to get minutes, then why didn’t Willy get the same treatment? So we could bring star prospect Luke Kornet to shoot .222 on 3s in garbage time?
And y’all want me to believe these clowns in the front office are capable of building a team. The only way the Knicks are going to be good is by lucking out on some unexpected stud in the draft. Their talent evaluation is crap, from president to coach.
You don’t know what is happening in practice, though. Practice is a magical place where all of the Knicks’ bad moves are explained away.
Josh Longstaff was obviously the worst practice coach in the NBA.
At least he always has his porn career to fall back on
I’ve been m.i.a. so pardon me if this sentiment has been worn out recently, but the presence of Mudiay on this team just destroys me. He’s the living embodiment of a wet blanket. Every time I think something positive may happen, I remember he’s here, and I think of the direction that indicates we’re likely heading. Smart teams don’t acquire Emmanuel Mudiay and start him at PG.
I got to work, read the Mikal Bridges profile on The Ringer, and started to get optimistic for a moment. He’d be the perfect pick at 9 and would form a great defensive core with Frank and Porzingis. But then I looked at the box score and saw Mudiay: 1-9, 6 turnovers. If that’s the kinda guy Mills and Perry want to acquire, what’s the point?
The biggest downside to Mudiay is that he reveals how stupid current mgmt is. And since they just got installed, his presence portends another half decade of misery.
This strikes me as wildly optimistic. We didn’t give up a valuable 2nd round pick and move our promising PG to another position in order to tank. We did it because the front office thinks Mudiay can be a building block.
I’m not so sure I agree. I was imagining our roster if we managed to get lucky and draft Bridges and brought back KOQ:
Kanter / O’ Quinn
Ntilikina / Burke
Hardaway / Lee
That’s not terrible. We would just need Ntilikina to develop and Porzingis to actually be good. He wasn’t before he got hurt. And he may never be good enough to be the guy. But if he is, there will be good players around him.
Mudiay was handed the starting job because he’s the most elite tanker at the point guard position in the league. 1-9 from the field with SIX TURNOVERS in less than 30 minutes? Name another player who can guarantee a loss like that in the NBA. You can’t. Playing Mudiay heavy minutes is going to counteract all chances of Tim Hardaway Jr’s April Extravaganza and it’s going to deliver us a higher pick than we deserved this year and RJ Barrett next year.
That is quite a line for Mudiay. Too bad Frank didn’t light it up but it’s a tough place to play.
AD for MVP is growing on me. Pretty nice line last night after taking a shot to his ribs. 9 straight wins for the Pelicans too.
Shout out to Montrezl Harrell who, despite getting owned by AD last night, is fully justifying my faith in him.
Trae Young would be worth experimenting with Frank as a shooting/combo guard. Emmanuel Mudiay most certainly is not, and I’m firmly in the camp that believes Frank’s value is inherently limited if he isn’t a point guard. His court vision is his best offensive attribute and we have no idea if he’ll ever become a good enough shooter to make sense as an off-ball guard. He deserves a legitimate look at point guard. But hey, when you get a chance to play Emmanuel Mudiay at the expense of players who might not suck you don’t just pass that up.
On a different note, reading the mock draft tea leaves it seems like there’s a small chance Bruce Brown might be available with our second round pick. You might recognize the name because at the beginning of the season he came up a few times as a possibility for our first rounder. Since then he’s pretty had had a lost season between shooting ineffectiveness and a foot injury, but he’d be great value with our second rounder. Nothing that made him a lottery prospect has been invalidated. I watch pretty much every Miami game and he’s an absolutely monstrous defender and a great rebounder for a wing. He’s got playmaking chops too. His free throw shooting makes me think the shot is solvable.
Ah who am I kidding, we’ll take Grayson Allen.
There’s no evidence that they think Mudiay is a building block. They gave up the 44th pick to get him. That’s not exactly mortgaging the future. What they were probably doing was taking a flyer on a 21-year old former top prospect in hopes that he would discover something and become a useful player. It’s the kind of low-risk gamble that bad teams should take.
I don’t believe that they saw it as a stealth tank move. But many fans anticipated that possibility. And sure enough, that’s what Mudiay is doing. Which is great.
Being a UNC alum IDK if I’d be able to emotionally handle having Grayson Allen on the Knicks
I got a little excited when I saw that the Mavs won last night, but we’re still 4 games up on them.
Yay, November wins!
I love Trae Young and my biggest fear is another team taking him one pick ahead of us because our tank was blown up by Tim Hardaway Jr
i actually think grayson allen is a bit underrated…. certainly not with our first rd pick…. but he deserves to be somewhere in the first rd somewhere towards the middle/back half….
i really hate him personally tho but he’s not a horrendous player…
I think we all know that the pick that the Pistons traded for Blake Griffin will end up being #1 somehow, which would, in turn, bump the Knicks to #10. 🙂
I just played with the Tankathon lottery simulator and out of 20 tries, the Knicks ended up with Mikal Bridges 17 times (yay!), Trae Young one time (huh? Would they really take him with the #3 pick? But still, yay!), Luka Doncic once (YAY!) and Miles Bridges once.
I think we all know which result is the most likely one. 😉
Agree with this. The idea that they traded for Mudiay specifically for the tank is crazy. If all they wanted to do was make a trade to get worse there are a lot of ways they could have done it without giving up any assets at all. Moving O’Quinn and Lee for the best available picks and promoting Frank to the starting PG job and Dotson to starting SG would probably have achieved the same tank-ish ends and netted us a couple extra picks in the process.
That said, low-cost young players are almost all bad, and Mudiay is notably bad even among them. That’s why all tanking teams take this kind of shot on high upside young players, because it’s a no downside situation. When they stink you’re fine with that. If 1 in 5 makes real strides and becomes an NBA player, fantastic. We know that Mudiay stinks now – I don’t think anybody thought that just sticking him in the famously excellent Knicks environment was going to make him go from bad to good overnight. The question is whether they can develop him at all. Most likely answer is no of course, but perceptions of the trade shouldn’t have shifted at all so far. He’s been exactly what we knew he was and we can afford to give him some time. We’re going to be extremely, irredeemably bad for like the next 10-12 months.
Ok, here’s something else to get depressed about on this dreary snow day – this is a list of the worst 3 point shooters in the NBA with a minimum of 500 minutes played and also their attempts per game. Hardaway comes in 11th, however, he ranks 1st in 3 point attempts by a pretty wide margin.
He’s really having a pretty awful season by any standard, but hey, he’s a bargain at $18MM!
Westbrook .286 4.4
Schroeder .286 3.9
Thomas .289 5.9
S. Johnson .291 3.4
Russell .294 5.1
D. Green .295 3.5
Smart .298 4.5
Waiters .306 5.7
D. Smith .307 4.9
Embiid ..308 3.4
Hardaway .310 7.0
Yeah again its comical that people are freaking out about him sucking. Development takes more than a trade to a new team and two weeks of games. We will not have a real feel for if Mudiay is worth trying to keep until at least the beginning of next year. Let him and Frank spend the summer together in a gym working out, practicing their shots and working with our coaches and then we can make a better assessment next year. We have time with Frank as we have him under contract for 3 more years after this one. Burke is a great find for us but his ceiling is a bench back up PG/spark plug. Mudiay has a very very small chance of maybe being a starting PG and his size alone makes him and Frank and intriguing pairing. For me, I honestly do not care who the eventual starting PG is or who the eventual starting SG is. Hell, frank puts on some muscle and grows another inch or two he might be our starting SF. Its just way too early to pigeonhole frank as the inevitable starting PG. And he’s not being hurt developmentally by not playing PG for the last 20 games of a lost season his rookie year. That idea is ludicrous. He’s still getting plenty of PT and experience.
It is Hard Work being a fan of the Knicks.
After we all tried to talk ourselves into the whole “but he shot kinda well in Atlanta!”, this is so depressing. The way he plays he only really adds value if he’s shooting well. Oh well, 3 more years of this, thanks Mills!
It seems to me our Knicks are at least a good 5 years away from recovering from the FO’s repeated errors. As other posters have said, there is little to no talent on the roster.
I have no faith Ktilikina will become a good player. Hardaway is clearly overpaid. Porzingis may or may not turn into a full-season good player, but the old dreams of him ever becoming a superstar are gone.
It’s quite difficult to be optimistic about this team.
My personal hope would be to hand the reins to a modern coach like Blatt and start building slowly by getting good players, not mediocre quick fixes like Hardaway. Looking at Dantoni succeeding in Houston makes the whole thing even more painful!
“Mudiay has a very very small chance of maybe being a starting PG” =/= “Mudiay is an amazing prospect and a great risk for us to take.”
Wasn’t the argument pro Timmy that he improved some last year, esp. in the 2nd half of the season?
As for the PG situation, as I’ve said, I believe mgmt. has mandated that Mudiay start. However, even they might relent with him being so amazingly bad.
Here’s what I’d do: first, Burke stops playing PG. We pretty much know what he is. Give him his minutes, but let him just play off the ball except in situations where the Knicks are late in the shot clock. In those, run a pick and roll and let him get the pull-up mid-range shot he likes.
I don’t really care who starts, but split the PG minutes totally between Frank and Mudiay. Frank needs the minutes and reps as the primary ballhandler. Don’t play the two of them together at all. Mmgt gets Mudiay his time (and inadvertently helps the tank) and Frank gets the experience he needs.
Probably won’t happen, though.
To kinda piggyback off what you said Frank- I still think Mudiay can develop, but like you said- not with this staff. Even if we somehow hired a competent developmental staff, his ceiling is looking more and more like combo guard off the bench. Boy, did that Longstaff decision hurt. He was really good with KP- who knows what kinda growth he would have had this season with Longstaff. Ntilikina as well.
timmy is fine… there is some underlying growth in his secondary skills and driving ability… his 3pt shooting tanking is concerning but that is the most volatile stat…. if it was a just a few percent better this would be a career year for him….
Right now, I am just trying to figure where Mudiay sits on the probability of becoming a good player matrix relative to the historical benchmarks provided by Eddy Curry and Andrea Bargnani.
Yeah I think Grayson is a fine prospect, and underrated because of his fucking abrasive personality and taking all 4 years at Duke. But that still doesn’t change the fact that it’s gonna be really lucky tough for me to root for him, lol
I wonder what’s gonna happen with TJ Warren with Jackson’s emergence & pedigree? Would he be expendable and would his poison pill deal be a huge deterrent to the Knicks trade for him? Hypothetically, what would it take to add him?
They gave up assets for him and inserted him in the starting lineup ahead of the 19 year old kid they just drafted.
There’s more evidence that Mills and Perry like Mudiay than there is that they like Frank.
That only makes sense if you believe that his career statistics won’t be posted to the internet until the beginning of next year.
Grayson Allen is ass. He plays no defense, has maybe an average handle, and can’t pass. He’s better than Mudiay because he can shoot, but he’s a worse version of Ron Baker.
That’s both a ludicrous, and disingenuous (because you threw in ’20 games), statement. Frank should have been getting starter’s minutes the instant KP went down, which would have been about half a season’s worth of on the job training. It’s the same nonsense as the Giants playing Geno Smith over Davis Webb last season.
I mean, it’s time to stop with the “we don’t who Mudiay / THJ is yet”. If you never watched Denver or Atlanta and won’t accept the very consistent stat profile that shows they have, obviously in different levels, been mediocre in THJs case and awful in Mudiay’s case, I seriously think you should look at it.
Players don’t start from zero every time they switch teams. Just because they haven’t been long with the Knicks doesn’t mean everything they’ve done before is gone and all that’s left is the athleticism and the magical upside.
Mudiay has played 4000+ minutes in the NBA and he is currently playing the worst ball of his career. He has shown absolutely zero growth since he has been in the league. He’s a replacement player, you can find guys like him on the scrap heap and they don’t cost you a second round pick. His high draft position is the only reason he is still in the NBA. He doesn’t deserve to ever see the floor.
Sure, he’s good at tankball. Great. So are dozens of guys in the G league.
worse yet concerning mudiay – he’s starting to bring me down when i watch him play…despite the fact that i don’t really care much about him – every time he flops to the floor trying to lay the ball up, or, throws another errant pass – i start to cringe and feel bad for the guy…
it’s like you can feel his thoughts that even he realizes he really sucks at nba level basketball…
In his second year with the Knicks Timmy was one of the 4-5 worst players in the NBA. He’s okay now. So what I’m saying is we should send Mudiay to Atlanta or hire budes
Sure, he’s got a .393 TS%. But his usage stands at 25%! That means that he’s letting his less-skilled teammates take easier shots (through his gravity, spacing and synergy) and also creating TONS of Kobe Assists for a guy like Enes Kanter, who consistently puts up 12 points on 9 shots off the hard work of other players.
You guys need to be more optimistic. As soon as he learns to shoot, not turn the ball over, and play defense, he’s going to be a valuable 12th man!
Once he gets some time under this great developmental organization, I’m sure the sky is the limit for him… the Fraport Skyliners of Frankfurt seems like a good landing place, maybe, if he can beat the immortal Philip Scrubb or Isaac Bonga for the job.
Acquiring cost controlled young players is a great idea, especially guys as young as Mudiay still is since there’s still the chance for wild improvement. My issue with the acquisition is two-fold:
1) the process of choosing to trade for Mudiay seems kinda low-IQ. The only justification for trading for him vs. just adding another d-league player or trading for some former 2nd round pick who hasn’t found a spot in the rotation but doesn’t have so devastatingly awful numbers is that he has that lottery pedigree.
2) We traded a draft pick for him. That’s a lateral move much like how Phil Jackson traded Hardaway for a pick and then went on to select a player who was only like a month younger than Hardaway. You trade players for picks when your aim is to invest in your team’s future yet the pick Phil made was about as low upside as there is. Similarly, this FO most likely had some kind of offers on the table for O’Quinn or Lee yet turned them down. My guess is they were preoccupied by preserving future cap room much like Phil was.
I think the hope is that when a player is younger than a certain age, there is still the potential for upside improvement.
The problem is:
1. Hardaway is not that young anymore. If he was going to break out, it probably would have happened this year. It did not.
2. Mudiay is sooo bad, assuming he does improve, that will only make him a decent backup.
For either to Hardaway or Mudiay to become a high level starter, they would have to do something that is getting increasingly unlikely.
I’ve basically written Hardaway off as a solid but overpaid 6th man masquerading as a starter because, well, the Knicks suck and are dumb. He’s not good enough, consistent enough, and doesn’t have a high enough basketball IQ to be a key trusted member of the starting unit. He does one or more atrociously stupid things and takes several terrible shots every night. But he can occasionally get hot and really light it up. That’s what you want from your 6th man making around half as much. Putting him into the Rose cap space at that price for that long wasn’t as bad as the Noah deal, but it was foolish and hurt the rebuild.
The Mudiay trade was a total waste of 2nd rounder and McBuckets. Worse, it’s hurting Frank. We already had Frank and Burke at PG and we are unlikely to ever get anything for back for Mudiay. On the flip side, if we should happen to get the 8th seed or better (with Mudiay’s help of course), there’s some very small chance it will help us select the better player out of the draft. But getting the 8th seed and then being smart enough to use it correctly seems like more luck than skill, especially with this management.
I was willing to blame Hardaway and Baker on Mills, but Perry was in charge for Hernangomez and Mudiay. Neither is catastrophic, but neither is encouraging.
I have no problem with Frank getting a good dose of minutes off of the ball. He’s played over 1000 minutes at the point already and given that he’s probably going to be combo-ish (at least for the next year or two) learning those two guard skills- shooting off of screens, attacking close-outs, etc… and learning to guard 2s and 3s as well is going to help him in the long run. That said, he should be getting 30+ minutes and given that Mudiay has been an utter train wreck some of those minutes should be at the point.
you ever wonder if maybe at some time or another you did something bad – and, now your punishment is to be a knick fan…
little to nothing that this team does is positive…i mean there are a few enjoyable moments throughout a season – which usually occur very early on…and, i did enjoy watching frank get his first start last night…
there are a few players whom come through the team that i really enjoy rooting for…by an large though – the majority of every knick season for almost the last two decades is spent questioning our talent level both on and off the court…
trying to make sense of what’s happening, and, find some small glimmer of hope in the team’s future…
i think it was strat’s: “it’s tough being us” that’s really got me thinking about this…i mean rooting for a team is supposed to be enjoyable – right?
what exactly is this shit???
That’s pretty much it. It is a bit of a relief to be talking about only bad moves instead of catastrophic, franchise thrown into a dumpster fire ones, but there’s no encouraging signs at all.
Showing restraint by refraining from completely destroying the entire franchise should not be something we’re praising.
Not a single move made by Mills and or Perry has paid off, unless someone wants to spin the obviously untrue narrative of “they’re looking to help the tank” when they’re clearly not. The only thing I’m happy about is getting rid of Carmelo, but even that is bringing nothing back as Kanter could not be a future piece and McDermott is already gone.
Melo deal also got them a fairly high second rounder.
By the way, I love the idea of “Eh, they only lost a #45 pick for Mudiay, who cares?” mixed with “They got the #38 pick in the Melo trade. What a valuable pick-up!”
Reading comments has given me an epiphany! We are all in an abusive relationship with the Knicks! So much so, that we’re freaking out over moves designed to help us get a higher pick. Granted, I hated losing McBuckets, but trading the lower of our second rounders for Mudiay wasn’t horrible. Trust me, we’re not gonna see better players than Mudiay with what would have amounted to a mid to late 40’s pick. Of course, Mudiay has got to help his cause and play better to justify the deal. And I’m not too worried about Ntilikina not starting at the 1. He and Burke play well together. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s our starting backcourt next season, unless we find a starting SF. Still, I’d rather see Ntilikina getting minutes at PG more than SG. The funk that the team is in is probably a perfect storm of Hornacek’s bad decisions and tanking. Meaning, Hornacek probably has an irrational belief in Mudiay as a starting PG right now because he gets in the lane. Regardless of who starts at the point, we’re still losing a lot of games without Porzingis..so what the hell, y’kno?
There you go. That’s it in a nutshell.
Now we know why he hates being a four, despite him clearly being better suited to be a four than a three.
As others have noted, though, there’s no way that that was the intent of that move.
Mudiay is the worst guard in the NBA. You could find that with the 45th pick, but you’d have to draft a player who was actually good in college, instead of a player whose team made it to, say, the Final Four.
The Kentucky Wildcats, e.g., currently have 26 former players active in 2017-18, which accounts for over a quarter of Kentucky’s all-time NBA players. (This is an incredible stat, btw.) Of those 26, twenty-five were drafted.
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that all 25 were viable NBA prospects — many were role players on national-TV-friendly teams that made a bunch of deep NCAA tournament runs. There’s no way that 6 Kentucky players get drafted in 2012 if Anthony Davis doesn’t lead the team to a championship. Doron Lamb, Marquis Teague, and Darius Miller were scrubs and MKG was a bust at #2 overall. Yet there they were, drafted like they were viable NBAers.
Pick the BPA and you can find yourself a Jokic with the 40th pick. Pick an “upside” “pedigree” player and end up with Emmanuel “Tony Wroten 2.0” Mudiay 2.0.
Damn. Bit of a depressing read this morning, but such is Knicks fandom ha ha
I am neither here nor there on the Mudiay deal. It was pretty meh, and he has so far been as advertised, but it was the type of deals we should be looking at……….just not the type of player. It was a gamble, but hey at least we are gambling on a 21 y.o rather than Derrick Rose’s corpse. I get that’s a pretty weak justification for the move, given more savvy FO’s would have probably just taken a flyer on a G-Leaguer.
As of now, we’re going into next season with, if you’re optimistic or neutral about Timmy, one legit nba starter. And we’ll be lucky to get the 8th pick.
The only situations that I see that are more depressing than ours are Memphis and the sad sack Nets.
I leave out Atl because Doncic, Prince, Collins and Schoeder’s hair might be fun to watch.
Next season will be all about developing Frank and this year’s #1 while tanking like hell.
We’re gonna be the worst team in the league if KOQ leaves next season.
Good. Porzingis is not a superstar and we have almost nothing of value on the roster. The only path to true rebuild is to hit a pair of homers in consecutive drafts and then fill out the roster with solid, cheap talent. The Knicks need to lose to win. There’s no other way.
@66 the Grizz can still probably get quite a bit more for Gasol than we got for Melo. But yeah, the Conley and Parsons contracts are awful and unmoveable. Conley’s deal runs through 20/21 and Parsons’ through 19/20.
That said, being in a situation like the one the Grizzlies are in is at least comforting in the sense that even a moron GM or owner could think that the team has any other choice but an extended, committed rebuild. I can’t believe they won’t trade Gasol this summer, and then they can probably count on Parsons taking a medical retirement at some point…
I think the Mudiay deal was dumb, and that was when it looked at first like a pick swap. But saying that it’s bad because “it hurts Frank” is nonsense. The only thing hurting Frank right now is Frank. At this time, he sucks at basketball, and playing him 40 mpg is not going to make him better right now; if anything, it could further damage his confidence. Frank should have been in the G-League for much of this year, and the smart move would have been to send him down when Burke was brought up.
That said, if Frank looked even remotely like a PG for a reasonable stretch this year, the Mudiay deal probably doesn’t get done. Rightly or wrongly, Perry and Mills (and maybe Hornacek) have clearly given up all but the faintest glimmer of hope of Frank ever evolving into a reasonably good PG (forget great, that ship has sailed.)
Can we all agree to calling Mudiay TW2 from now on?
That’s what I thought when I saw Mudiay’s stat line.
I have never had faith in Frank as a PG. He can’t drive. He can’t do it in the NBA, he couldn’t do it in Europe, he couldn’t do it in the U-18 tournament. Sure he was named MVP of the tournament, but only because he shot 58% from 3. Frank can’t do that in the NBA.
Frank is not and never has been a viable PG prospect. Why would we ever play him at PG? He’s a SG that can pass well.
If we get Mikal Bridges (or anyone who is a legit NBA starter) this year and let Mudiay drive the tank next year and luck into an actual superstar in the next draft to go with Porzingis, Bridges, Ntilikina, we could have a nice core for 2019-20.
So we’ve got that going for us.
But we’ll still have Mills and Perry and they will screw it up.
We should hire whoever coaches the westies
The Knicks did not want to tank this year and they certainly don’t want to tank next year. They want to get BETTER. They’ve said their job is to add players and use their picks so when KP comes back he comes back to a better team.
The reason they’ve been trying to add PGs is that they know Frank is probably still a couple of years away from being a legitimate starter on a good team no matter which position he plays. That means they still need a starting PG for next year. It could be Burke. They were hoping it would be Mudiay. They may wind up adding someone else like Jack as a filler. But they have NOT given up on Frank being the long term PG. The other day Hornacek said Frank could be the starting PG next season depending on how he comes back.
I’d way rather have Frank taking his lumps at PG right now than playing off the ball with Mudiay. Maybe he’s not cut out to be a PG and will never get there, but he’s not a scorer either. At least at PG he can learn the position better and make some plays to go along with his defense.
This is true. They’ll hopefully be forced to accidentally tank next year, but yes, there’s no way that they’re going to try to tank next year.
Brian, I get what you’re saying. But the comparison has some flaws.
When the Melo trade was made, the Chicago pick looked like it would be closer to #30 than #38. Getting anything of value for Melo and his megamax deal looked like an acceptable return. Today it looks like a steal.
Though Melo is better than Mudiay, he comes with huge downside risk that Mudiay doesn’t. Mudiay’s worst case scenario is that he continues to suck and helps us lose games. Meanwhile, as much as people hate on Mudiay, it wasn’t crazy for Perry to think that a change of scenery/coach/scheme and a year of development would give him a 20% chance of becoming a rotation player. Giving up the 44th pick for a 20% chance at a rotation player seems reasonable. That’s why I’m not crying over the loss of that pick.
I’m thrilled with them getting the second round pick. Just noting that you can’t hand wave a #44 pick as unimportant while being happy about them having the #38 pick. When it was McBuckets and a pick swap, I thought it was a decent enough gamble even though it was unlikely to succeed. Now that it’s an actual second rounder, though, that dings the trade value a lot.
Hope everybody is watching future knick Trae on espnu
If the Knicks draft reasonbly well, and don’t give out anymore bad contracts beyond ’20-’21, they could have a shot at adding the Brow and/or the Greek Freak to KP in the summer of ’21. I hope that is the type of plan they are contemplating.
I don’t think we would take Young with a top 3 pick if we got lucky and there’s no way he falls to 9 in my opinion.
Agreed. That is the hope. Add no new contracts, add someone good in the draft this year, tank next year (not on purpose because Knicks) and get a stud in the next draft, re-sign KP and then improve for a year and then sign someone big in 2021. That’s a reasonable rebuilding plan.
I think they’ve won 2 games this year without KP in the lineup. Unless Frank improves a lot and they draft a stud, I can’t see them winning many games next year before he returns. Even if we assume KP comes back at the beginning of January (and I see no reason to rush him given they will be near the bottom of the standings at that point), he’ll be under a minutes restriction and will probably take a month or so to clear his head and regain his form assuming all goes well. It’s going to be like this year. They will be trying to win but not good enough to do so.
It’s sad but the hidden benefit of KP’s injury is that we may have been close to a 35 win team if KP and Hardaway were healthy most of the season and we didn’t go into Mudiay mode. We are going to get a better draft pick this year and next than the quality of our team warrants. That’s an offset to the debacle of KP getting hurt.
We can still turn this ship around if we draft well and don’t do anything else dumb.
He is not the rookie of the year, but Donovan Mitchell really does look like a future star.
He’s having an excellent rookie season.
Definitely. The only thing, of course, is if KP just doesn’t come back healthy. Otherwise, you’re absolutely correct. This is hilariously the best thing that could happen to them (provided that KP remains healthy).
Hmmn, the latest news on Mark Cuban makes me think either someone is out to get him or he’s a real sleazeball.
Could be both!
Mitchell looks like McCollum to me, and looking up their numbers, they’re virtually identical (except that Mitchell is 21 and has three years of cost-controlled production ahead of him). I think McCollum is terribly overrated, and that opinion is as popular as sheltering the homeless out here, but I’d love to have Mitchell as the future PG of my team.
Too bad the Knicks weren’t in position to draft Donovan Mitchell…..
you know – if everything falls together just right – we should be looking at a really competitive team just around – never…
ugh, a sorely need another november run…
I have mixed feelings about this. I am not sure he will ever have a “breakout”, but I think this year, with injuries and such, he could never get relaxed and confident on the court. So I think he can be better next year, even if he doesn’t set the world on fire. Certain players manage to look better on good teams than on bad ones and he may be one of them.
“Too bad the Knicks weren’t in position to draft Donovan Mitchell…..”
Let’s hope they don’t miss on the next 2 first rounders
So much this!
If KP plays more than 10 games next season (only to establish he is healthy) everyone should be horsewhipped. The roster should be stripped of Lee, KOQ not resigned and pray Kantner opts out.
The object next year is to win 12 games with a back court of Frank, Mudiay, Dotson, Burke and Baker. THJr and the #8 pick up front with whatever flotsam and jetsam are necessary.
I know it makes sense to tank next year, but the idea of going into next season rooting for the Knicks to lose every game starting with opening night is pretty fucking depressing
I get that, I really do, but they’ve been awful for years without a purpose, so why not be awful with one for a change?
This all could have been avoided if the Knicks hadn’t traded all their draft picks for scrubs, traded away or failed to re-sign literally ALL of their draftees since Charlie Ward, signed mediocre-to-awful players to outrageous contracts and hired the least-competent front office and coaching staffs that professional basketball has to offer.
This is really no different than any year: Knicks’ season fucked, capped out next year, punt the ball, hope it bounces right, knowing it’ll never bounce right.
Teams like Houston, Toronto and Boston are exceptionally well-run and still need a lot of luck to even advance past the conference semis every year. The Knicks will never be good so long as James Dolan calls the shots. Never.
DeMar DeRozen killed the city of Detroit tonight.
Donovan Mitchell feels like fool’s gold to me in terms of his projections as a go-to kind of player. He’s a two way Eric Gordon, and that’s what I thought he would be coming out of Louisville. I’d take him on the Knicks of course, but I doubt his ability to lead a successful team as its leader in usage rate. The Jazz have the right idea, though. Having guys like Gobert, Crowder, and Rubio to put around him certainly makes his job easier. At the end of the day, he’s an undersized scoring threat that people key in on because he’s not an elite ball handler. Or I could be wrong and he could actually be the next D Wade.
As far as the Knicks go, I think we need to do something bold like go get Brandon Ingram from the Lakers for the price of absorbing Luol Deng’s contract (either into the void Kanter leaves behind or in a deal straight up for Kanter’s expiring contract). Nobody is signing in New York, so we have to build through trades and the draft. If LAL wants to land PG and LeBron, they won’t have any PT for all of Ingram, Kuzma, PG, and LeBron. Ingram is closer to his extension, so I could see the Lakers trading him to get more cap space to either use this summer to retain a guy like IT or Brook Lopez. Taking on Deng (and not stretch-waiving Noah) punts our cap space down a year to 2020, and at that point all of Noah, Deng, Thomas, and Lee would be coming off the books. We’d have Brandon Ingram, Kristaps Porzingis, Tim Hardaway, Frank Ntilikina, and three more first round picks to build around that year. I’d be pretty excited about a team with Trae Young, Frank Ntilikina, RJ Barrett, Brandon Ingram, Kristaps Porzingis, and whoever is available for us in the 2020 draft. It would have made the losing worth it.
I shit you not, JD and the fucking Straight Shot are the musical guest on the Tonight Show tonight! Fuck the heck?
@101 Sign of the Apocalypse
Omg I just put it on and there he is. This is a joke, right?
Johnny must be puking in his grave.
I like the idea at first but it doesn’t seem realistic and i don’t think mgmt would ever punt on the next two seasons by taking deng.
I don’t think Donovan Mitchell is comparable to Eric Gordon. He’s a much more physical, explosive player, and unless he stops developing at age 22, he will be an absolute stud. Gordon is a great sixth man when he is healthy, but a very flawed defensive player and very injury-prone, and plays below the rim.
Aah, what could have been…