Knicks Morning News (2018.02.07)

Jumping over to the new thread of sadness:

Let’s hope that it all works out! 🙂

Look where that’s gotten us this century, Brian. 🙂

I’m with you. If it was, say, a bad fracture that would sideline him for the rest of the season but give him much of the offseason to rehab and get healthy, I’d be Mr. Silver Lining. There are definitely some benefits to this, as it should force clarity on both the FO and Jeff about what to do for the rest of this season, and maybe even in the offseason (though it sounds like Perry was already aiming for 2019 free agency, given the cap situation), but the risk that KP’s career could be altered by this one makes it hard to care much that Frank and Burke are likely to play more, and that the team might be more open to dealing Lee.

Re: tanking this year – there are probably 6 players that I would be ecstatic to get – Doncic, Porter, Trae Young, Jaren Jackson, Bagley, and Deandre Ayton. Not totally sure how I feel about Mohamed Bamba yet. To get to the #6-7 pick we’d have to pass Memphis who has FIVE fewer wins than us. We are going to have to supertank to move into position there.

Honestly – it’s time for the Jack / Lance / Beasley / Willy / Kanter lineup. Two bigs, Beasley at the 3, and Jarrett Jack taking 18 shots per game.

Begley or another beat writer had a bit on Twitter about how KP had pain in his left knee since his rookie year. This ACL tear was going to happen sooner than later as these injuries are not “random” or freak accidents. ACL tears are due to poor landing technique, and poor landing technique is what rendered Derrick Rose, who should be dominating today’s game in a Bulls uniform, a useless basketball player. It’s going to hamper Dennis Smith Jr’s career, too, because he sucks at landing and has a ridiculous vertical. I’m not worried about if KP will bounce back, I’m worried about if he will continue those hard landings that tear up his knees again. I just sent KP a long DM about how he needs to land better if he wants to save his career, and we need to start a campaign as Knicks fans to raise awareness on landing technique. These joint-stress related injuries are too common in star athletes and they need to become a thing of the past.

That being said, #RollTank. Let’s get down to a place where we can draft Trae Young and change this franchise. Young needs the Knicks and the Knicks need Young. He’s the perfect fit for our roster and he’s a transformative shooting talent with a great feel for the game. Ironically enough as they’re from the same school, he’s the Baker Mayfield of this draft. If those guys were even an inch taller they’d be locks to go 1st in the draft but their builds have people second guessing the film and statistical profiles. If we pair up Young and Porzingis, it would be like having Nash and Nowitzki 2.0. I think I deserve that as a Knicks fan.

As I noted in the last thread (and this is not directed at anyone here, just to anyone who makes this point, as I’ve seen a few people on social media do so), this is not a blessing in disguise. This is horrible news. KP might never really recover from this injury.

However, if he does fully recover from this injury, then yes, this is one of the best things that could have happened to the Knicks. The issue is that we don’t know how he will recover, so it still terrible news for now.

Could this be the one time when a situation that calls for luck actually works out for the Knicks? It’s got to eventually, right?

@6 I guess I meant to say I’m not worried about if KP will ever be a franchise level talent going forward. I am, however, worried about if KP will tear it again because he’s not good at landing. Maybe a floor bound 7’3” guy wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.

Tough break for KP. His legs were already injury prone, and now he’s probably gonna be out a year just when he was beginning to acclimate himself as the top option. The silver lining, however, is tank time is upon us and those who are torn (like me) no longer have to deal with the angst of choosing a side. Sell sell sell! Lee gets moved! KOQ gets moved! Even Willy can go for the right price! We’re gonna be no good until KP returns at full strength, so we might as well collect assets. Hell, THJ can even be moved if he wants it. Today and tomorrow is now officially Perry time

If Porzingis comes back even remotely as good as he was this year, he’s getting a max contract, so I don’t think that’s much of a factor. Top rookies get max contracts when they’re resigned. When’s the last time a top rookie didn’t get a max contract from his team when his rookie contract ran out? Embiid got a max after playing, what, half a year? Andrew Wiggins has never had a season as good as Porzingis’ worst year and he got maxed out. It’s just what you do.

I really don’t think Orlando would accept that deal. Maybe if we threw in a conditional first, but we’d be insane to do so

If Baker had no player option, I’d tend to agree.

I don’t think he’s incompetent (we have literally no idea of what he is). The fact that he’s so close to Mills frightens more than a little, but it is what it is.

We don’t know yet if Perry is incompetent but we do know Mills is, and he will be heavily involved in any decision because Perry and him are a combo.

Perry himself has said many times he doesn’t believe in tanking and while he might see this injury as an opportunity to tank this year, he’ll never plan for tanking next year too, which would be the sensible option without Porzingis for some time next year.

That’s the issue, it could get reeeeally ugly really fast if they plan on building a team that can compete as soon as KP comes back. We might come into a situation where they get desperate for deals and for strengthening the team in the next offseason which can truly be a disaster, specially if KP never recovers fully from the injury and gets a max anyway.

I don’t think this injury was good in any way, since the fact that it would take a major, potentially career destroying injury to our most promising player to make these clowns realize what we have understood about this team for months now is downright depressing and not good news for the future at all. It’s just the worst fucking thing that could have happened, really.

Good rookies get max contracts when they’re resigned. When’s the last time a good rookie didn’t get a max contract from his team when his rookie contract ran out?

Steph Curry, under very similar circumstances. Also Giannis.

I get what you’re saying about teams historically handing out maxes after rookie deals expire, but the max is so much higher now. The second contract max used to be great value. After rounds of CBA renegotiations, it can now be one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

The idea that you automatically give a 4th year player $30mm+ a year is going to go out the window sooner or later, because it’s a very, very stupid idea. It was put in the CBA to rewards players like Derrick Rose who win the MVP in their second year, not for guys who have never lead their team to 35 wins.

Second contract maxes now comprise some of the league’s worst deals. Wiggins and McCollum have awful contracts that are crippling their teams. Embiid is playing extremely well now but that’s still a high risk deal that Colangelo may regret any moment. Those three and Otto Porter are the only ones I can think of currently in the NBA. They’re not being handed out as much as you think. Smart teams aren’t going to hand out $30mm+ to a player just because it’s the max.

One other ‘silver linong’ – this may alter what KPs max is actually worth because he’s now all but certain not to qualify for the super max. Means his max is 25% of the cap in year one, not 30%. That’s $5m per year right there.

I guess we’ll know in 24 hours or so how good this FO is. This team has no route to being good before 2019/20. We should be maxing our draft assets and accumulating young pieces to the maximum degree possible. That means trading ALL the vets that we don’t think will be on the team by then and playing ALL the kids, including some d-league call-ups.

I meant silver lining, obviously.

Also, to those saying it’s too late to tank hard enough to get down to the top 6, remember 2 things. One – we’re also playing for ping pong balls. Even a drop to 9 from 10 makes a marginal difference. Two, remember that most mocks this time last year had Tatum at 8. There’s a lot of time for one or two college guys to go on a year, rise up to 6 or 7 and send Jackson or Bamba to 8 or 9. Every lotto slot we climb has some benefit, even if small. And if we get there by giving Frank and Dotson 30 mins and acquiring some more picks for vets, that also has value.

I like Payton but Orlando wants to trade him because they don’t plan on paying him.

Every time Kp hit the floor I cringed. I always felt it was a matter of time, the way he went down hard on those long, gangly limbs. This is even worse than I expected.

It’s a sad day. We may have seen the best of KP, and his days in a knicks uniform may be numbered.

@32

Porzingis is overrated but let’s pump the brakes a bit he’s nowhere near as undeserving of a max as Wiggins and he’s basically been a top 40 player at least according to the stats I like most (RPM and PIPM). His defense is really underrated by box score stats. I’d max him and hope he learns how to be more efficient but now that he hurt himself we might not have to max him.

@34

Yeah, exactly my point. For me it’s ok if he bulks up like late-stage Sabonis (who in his prime was much leaner).

Playing Devil’s Advocate here. If KP’s knee is as injury prone as we think the endgame should be to trade him down the line after his rehab is complete and comes back strong. We all shat on Phil but he may have been right to want to trade him one year too soon than one year too late.

There’s very few players I wouldn’t be willing to see them trade for a good enough package, and KP wasn’t one of them. The only package that we knew Phil asked for, though (Booker and the #4 pick) was shitty. That was my problem with Phil trying to trade KP (that he was going to make a shitty trade), not that he would dare try to trade KP.

@40

I think it’s reasonable to max a top 40 player if that top 40 players is 22 years old and has shown serious improvement in the last year (which he has, despite all the griping about his obvious flaws of rebounding and shot selection). The difficulty with KP is that it’s not as obvious a max as Towns or Jokic, but it’s not obviously not a max either if you look at his stats closely. Also, a max player who simply plays to his max is NOT a bad deal at all. There is always going to be at most 5-10 players who outperform their max in the league, and teams have won championships while giving max guy max money. Getting surplus value off a contract is really only a realistic option for mid range contracts and below, and we shouldn’t hold onto our max money while waiting for Gianni’s or his equivalent, because that’s a once in every 5-10 year player. You go to war with the army you have

I agree with everything else you said, though. He’s not a savior. So we shouldn’t necessarily act as if he is. But he is an extremely promising young player who has had to suffer through three terrible coaches and Phil Jackson. I think that allows for some benefit of the doubt.

Trying to stay positive: KP’s game is mostly predicated on height… blocking shots and shooting over people. It’s not like he was ever jumping out of the gym like pre-injury Derrick Rose.

So hopefully this is a year he can work on his body, adding muscle, and work on shooting. He needs to become a center. He might come back and be less mobile in the post, but he could get thicker and stronger during that time (and yes, learning how to land is a must) and that would help with the transition to center.

I don’t think we need to freak out about the roster in the meantime. Maybe we’ll keep O’Quinn now since the team will need a rim protector, or maybe they will keep Noah and play him? What we really need, eventually, is a quick, rebound-gobbling pf to put next to KP when he gets back, and there are many in the draft.

I would take a chance on Payton, but surely not for a first rounder. There’s also the Hardaway problem, because he’s just not that good or worth his contract. Maybe he can find some comfort playing next to his old college teammate Trey?

In any event, getting more minutes for young players should’ve been the goal post-ASB anyway.

Man what a sad day. Next year is the most important angle here. This year we’re fairly locked in place. Others have crunched the numbers but even with KP going down and a (presumably) full commitment to the tank we’re going to have a hard time getting to the real top end of the lottery odds. But this has also largely trashed next year. It was already hard to see paths to the team having a very different talent level next year and now it’s all but impossible. In all likelihood KP will miss a good chunk of time and when he does return it won’t be at 100%. He’s still the main source of upside for the immediate future. This team is going to be bad next year.

One of the big patterns the Knicks have maintained for a long time is an unwillingness to admit in advance that a season is a lost one. They’ve always tried to maintain at least the illusion that the team was going to compete for the playoffs. A smart franchise would see the writing on the wall and start making every move with a focus on maximizing the next two drafts and looking to 2019-2020. Seeing next year as lost should make it much easier to dump productive veterans who could’ve helped this year and next (i.e. Lee, KOQ).

I’m just not at all convinced that the conversation in the Knicks front office today isn’t about how to “sell” Knicks fans on the next 18 months if it’s not going to be about Porzingis. That’s a scary thought.

One of the big patterns the Knicks have maintained for a long time is an unwillingness to admit in advance that a season is a lost one.

Yup. That’s how you wind up paying Tim Hardaway 16 million bucks to win 32 games instead of 29 games. Since we lost in the playoffs against Indiana this teams biggest problem has been it’s fundamental inability to understand how good their own team is.

Willy traded to Charlotte

What a BAD break this injury is, wow. There’s definite overall very negative value to the injury, no matter how many silver linings you add.

However, this season and next are LOST. They should look at this god forsaken mishmash of a roster and say LET US TANK. Especially this season. Hornacek will be gone at some point just because of his stupid rotations and playing time allotments, Lee/OQ/Kanter/Beas/Lance must go or stop playing, Noah’s contract should be eaten and not extended, traded, or anything.

We should get the 7-8th pick, again. And the 1-4 pick next year.

Lol they’re already fucking up

However, if he does fully recover from this injury, then yes, this is one of the best things that could have happened to the Knicks.

The better thing would have been this happening in October.

The better thing would have been this happening in October.

One of the best things. 😉

This shit is so annoying. All the reporting is just repeating what the one real reporter (Shams) reported, which is just that Willy is being traded to Charlotte. Argh.

If it’s Monk we got hosed.

If it’s Dwight fucking lol.

If it’s their first I don’t necessarily love it but it’s fine given Willy’s tenuous fit.

Oof

@ShamsCharania
Sources: Charlotte is sending Johnny O’Bryant and two second-round draft picks to the Knicks for Willy Hernangomez.

Johnny o Bryant and two seconds WHAT THE FUCK

We basically traded willy, who would’ve been a lotto pick in a redraft, for the two seconds we gave up to get him

This is bullshit

Like Pete said to Bob on that one episode of Mad Men, “Not great, Bob!”

Well we are officially a dumb front office. Glad the wait is over

Who tf is Johnny Obryant?

We just lost 30+ mpg of our starting PF for a year – NOW let’s trade our young, cost-controlled, backup big man who wants more playing time!

I just can’t…

Well, remember when we all said, “Willy complaining didn’t matter”? Well….I guess we were off there. Maybe we should have said, “Willy complaining doesn’t matter…if the Knicks had a competent front office.”

Frank and a 2020 1RP for Deng, who says no?

Does anyone know anything about him?

Just what I saw when the Knicks play the Hornets, which wasn’t much. His stats aren’t good.

Johnny O’Bryant is a pretty useless PF who can’t rebound and shoots only from 14ft out. Just what we needed.

@77

Yes please!!! I want moooore

Jesus Christ…

This feels like a bizarre panic move.

O’Bryant is basically an expiring contract, so he’s just a throw-in to make the money work I guess?

Difficult to grade this in a vacuum without knowing what else is about to happen, if anything. If it’s just Willy for two 2nds, that feels pretty meh to me. Not a disaster, but certainly not an inspiring move.

Update that the second rounders are the 2020 and 2021 Charlotte picks. Those might be ok.

@ShamsCharania
Sources: Charlotte is sending its own 2020 and 2021 second-rounders to New York in Hernangomez deal.

@84

And sadly KP might not be either

We officially control the 2nd round of the 2018 NBA Draft.

@87

It’s most certainly a disaster. WHG was a lottery level talent, first team all rookie and perhaps the most productive rookie on a per minute basis, and we traded him for two seconds. How is that not a major loss in value? It’s asinine

Edit: it’s future seconds not even current seconds LMFAO. Future seconds are generally not very valuable

I can’t believe this is the best offer they got and caved in. It’s just incredibly stupid. Unless they know WHG is, I don’t know, drowning in booze every night

Either Willy is absolutely atrocious in practice, they’ve given up on him, and they are planning on keeping O’Quinn or if there were any questions about whether we have dimwits in charge all doubts have been removed.

I don’t actually think it’s that bad. We all love Willy but it is quite possible that he just was not playing well in practice and they don’t like him that much. I mean, they specifically called him part of their core, and he couldn’t even win garbage minutes in training camp and practice.

It’s certainly not the worst trade the Knicks have made. I guess time will tell.

Yes, the crucial part is “and they caved in”

There was absolutely no reason to trade Willy now. There is actual playing time opening up for him, he’s young and still under contract for next year. Play him the rest of the season, build up his value then trade him in the offseason if you don’t like him. This is idiotic. New faces, same bullshit.

And meanwhile Willy ends up behind Cody Zeller and Dwight Howard. Dude just can’t catch a break.

Not good, but also not very bad. I figured they would play Willy with KP out, but nah.

Everytime I see a team getting 2 2RP, I think they already preparing for another trade. Let’s hope this is the case.

Edit: it’s very bad, indeed 🙁 I thought Willy was a RAF (and even so…)

There was a great line on Twitter about how only the Knicks could bury a second year player after a good rookie season to appease a coach that they’re probably fire after the season.

Actually this is what scares me the most. It looks like Jeff is strong with the front office. And he’s doing a bad job for the future of this franchise. Let’s face it. Dolan’s razor never disappoints.

, I think they already preparing for another trade. Let’s hope this is the case.

There’s a strong chance we’re going to do something even dumber

This is good news at least.

Opposing executives say the Knicks continue to take calls on center Kyle O’Quinn and guard Courtney Lee. New York is also still trying to trade Joakim Noah as well

This year’s 2nd isn’t Charlotte’s btw, it’s Cleveland’s that Charlotte owns. So not anything special.

Edit: ah it’s for the following two years… that’s even more absurd.

O’Bryant’s stats suggest he’s a replacement level player. I honestly don’t even understand what the Knicks think they’re doing with this trade.

OK now there is officially no silver lining.

This is worse news to me than the injury. You can overcome an injury. You can’t overcome management that doesn’t understand value.

We’ll probably max Porzingis out before he starts his rehab.

Probably f’ing Dolan lashing out at WHG for asking for a trade. Possibly misdirected anger over KP injury.

Well on the bright side we initially got Willy for two 2nd rounders. Thus he netted us J. O’Bryant!!! /s

It’s clearly a bad trade because we traded a productive player (whose defensive struggles were actually overstated except by the fabled eye test) for two future seconds who will likely not approximate Willy’s level of production. Terrible terrible terrible.

We traded a bird in hand for two rocks in the bush

Let’s hope they needed the second-rounders to sweet a possible Noah deal 🙂

(Anyway, it’s bad GMing when you have to trade a cost-controlled player to dump a massive overpay)

I’m totally expecting Biyombo and Payton for Noah, Frank and the two second rounders. And I’m not joking.

@130

Jowles, can we decide to root en masse for, I don’t know, the Virtus Bologna? I swear, it’s much better. We once had Ginobili.

I don’t actually think it’s that bad.

No offense Frank, but that’s how I know that this trade is fucking terrible. If you’re calling it a C+ trade, it’s an F. Full stop.

No way they’re trading Ntilikina. But Dolan’s Razor may want to tell me something…

If you’re insistent on trading Willy, this isn’t an awful return (as two seconds usually can be used to get something useful like, well, you know, Willy). It’s that you shouldn’t be insistent on trading Willy. He’s signed for two more years. This is just bonkers.

@130

I also instantly went to Reddit to see their reaction, because well, if they disagree with me it really means Im right, so well…

I feel your pain strato. We’ve disagreed so much on how to do stuff here, but now we’re just feeling the same way.

There’s no way to paint this as a good deal, literally no. Willy was under contract, productive last year and still promising. We get a useless player and 2 seconds that could be bought with Dolan’s fucking money, just to appease a fucking stupid coach who should have been fired 20 games ago.

The day WHG becomes a regular 15-10 guy is the day when we’ll remember the Melo trade as a bad trade for its consquences.

Not only in WHG a good young player with a favorable contract under team control for several years, but the reason he hasn’t been playing in NY is because of a log jam that was cleared, literally, hours before the trade was announced.

It really is nuts. I hope to heavens that they had actually agreed on the trade before the injury.

I think it’s time for a blog name change to Knickersupportgroupblogger.net

No offense Frank, but that’s how I know that this trade is fucking terrible. If you’re calling it a C+ trade, it’s an F. Full stop.

lol I actually laughed out loud. Nice.

I dunno. I’m always Team Optimism, and possibly give too much credence to how coaches determine who plays. It’s just hard for me to imagine that if Willy was that great that he wouldn’t have earned even a few minutes this season. I fully get his #s and I was per-36’ing his numbers like crazy last season. But Marc Gasol he isn’t and will never be. Then in that case, what is he worth? We can’t even get a 1st round pick for KOQ and KOQ is quite superior to Willy — and it’s probably unlikely that Willy will ever be as good as KOQ. Willy can’t shoot and he’s at best a passable defender. He has some nifty post moves and can pass the ball, but KOQ is better at those things too.

So then it comes down to the other +’s of Willy — namely that he’s on a cheap contract and that he’s KP’s buddy. With the glut of bigs in the league, it’s probably not so hard to find someone who can approximate Willy’s contribution for cheap. And Kp already said he’d be sad to see him go but he wants him to find an opportunity to play.

This is what happens when you have people in charge that don’t know how to value players at all. We all disagree from time to time because we are looking at different data or have different insights. That’s what markets are all about. But I can’t see how anyone could conclude that Willy wasn’t a productive rookie last year on a bargain contract. Even if you think at 23 he has limited upside, he was still a good backup C on an attractive contract. All he needed was playing time. He was also one of the better moves we’ve made in the last few years.

Does this mean we are keeping O’Quinn?

Seems WAY more likely now.

Does this mean we are keeping O’Quinn?

Seems WAY more likely now.

Looks that way, yeah.

The fact that they were so eager to accommodate Willy’s trade request does suggest that Noah is next. Which is dumb, because when KOQ walks this summer we’ll actually need a backup C.

I don’t get some of you. yesterday, someone wanted to dump KOQ for a 2nd. We just got twice that for Willie. I’m not sure we should have done it. But I’m really not sold that he is any good. And I have a feeling he pissed off the coaching staff. regardless of how you feel about the coaches, that’s not a great thing for a young player to do.

It’s just like the knicks to compound terrible news by turning around and piling on unnecessarily more terrible news.
Hey Knicks fans, tough loss of KP. Torn ACL. Man, some guys are never the same after…
Oh, BTW, we’re going to trade away the guy we said was part of the core of our future for a nobody and for two nobody draft picks.
nice
I think it’s about time to raise the price of tickets!
…

I don’t get some of you. yesterday, someone wanted to dump KOQ for a 2nd. We just got twice that for Willie.

KOQ has a player option next year that he’s very likely to exercise.
Willy is cheap and under team control for a while.

I get where some people are coming from who consider this ok. Willy type bigs don’t have a lot of value in the league today (I would argue this is dumb, and that rebounding and efficient scoring around the basket are very valuable still) so maybe this is ok return for him, considering. The real problem I have is that keeping Willy through the season is by far the better move, since it gives you flexibility in dealing with a new Kanter and/or KOQ contract. Now we are going to be desperate for backcourt help if both of them opt out and are going to have to overpay for at least one of them. So get ready for Kanter at 25-30mil a year.

The worst thing about all of this is that it’s once again clear that the team is run by a bunch of incompetent boobs, and that a whole new cycle of failure will have to play out before the next Isiah Thomas or Phil Jackson starfucks his way to the GM job and is brought in a savior to fix everything. So it’s going to be at least a few more years of the Mills/Perry clown show before we have even the faintest glimmer of hope that somebody competent might come in here and set some shit straight.

Welp, the r/nyknicks chorus seems to think it was a fair trade.

I might have to go on reddit after lunch

What IS the terminology when you use your player option to opt out? Are you exercising that option?

@166

Oh yeah, I misunderstood. Sorry my blood is too hot right now

More
@hoopscritic just said on @WFAN660 that the Knicks wouldn’t deal Hernangomez in a package for Bledsoe but then they turned around and traded him for two 2nds

lolol this could go down as one of the worst trades in recent memory, I can’t help but laugh

F this team…

Kanter is going to opt in if only to say “This is my family and I never let my family down in times of troubles”, and then will go and terribly mistime his defense on PnR coverage

Kanter opting in is A OK with me. We’re gonna suck next year most likely. He can start at center and then we can trade him at the deadline. After the end of next season is when we will make our move. That’s when we should have been making a move anyways. Now we have no choice.

You guys overvalue Willy way too much. He was a second round pick. We’re getting 2 of those in return for him. Its a good trade.

I’m eager to sell bitcoins to Steve Mills

rotflmao

maybe Haralabos will sell him some crypto kitties.

He was a second round pick. We’re getting 2 of those in return for him. Its a good trade.

Memphis should accept two future seconds for Marc Gasol.

I also really think you guys need to ask yourself why Willy has played hardly at all this year when his main competition was Kanter (who everyone here says secretly sucks) and KQ, who is an energy bench big. Yes they are both veterans but Willy did start for half a season last year.

Could it be that maybe he just blows in practice and came to TC this year with an entitled attitude that he deserved to play/start and that he got his lunch handed to him every day in practice by two much better players? And instead of working on his game to be ready, he pouted? Maybe he thought bc he’s KP’s BFF he was somehow entitled to PT?

I mean, he could be a decent player and maybe I’ll be wrong. But people freaking out about us trading a second round pick for 2 second round picks? Seems a tad overdramatic to me.

@149 I’m with you. I dont think it was a bad trade at all. Dont care about Johnny O’Bryant – I’ll take the 2 second rounders: in principle, we need more dice rolls in upcoming drafts.

I know the sentiment is/was that we’d prefer to trade Kanter and have Willy become Kanter eventually. Maybe the Knicks feel that they already have a bird in the hand (Kanter). Willy wasn’t playing, so I’m not going to get hung up about the value they got back for him.

Look, I’m upset about KP. I’m bringing my Knicks hat with me to work (I’m in L.A. now), placing it on my desk, and making everyone who passes by pay their respects (we’ll see how well that goes, lol).

Please, don’t jump off the bridge because of this particular trade.

@185 Frank has been getting less than 10mins lately behind a horrible Jack. Maybe we should trade him for a couple seconds too? Then we can flip those 2nds for Whiteside! I’m glad we all live in this reality!

The funny thing is Hernangomez won’t be playing this year either. He’s behind Dwight Howard and Cody Zeller. So now WHG gets to be unhappy in Charlotte instead of New York. This trade was petty.

To be fair, we here at KB think Willy has more value, and we’re right. But his perceived value is quite low. There were reportedly 10 teams or so interested in him, but what were they offering? Is it possible that this was indeed the best offer?

I’m not defending the trade, and I agree that the smart move was to play him and build up his value, especially now that KP is done. But at this time, this might be the best we could have gotten for him under today’s market conditions.

We should have been patient but I’m guessing that this is Willy’s market value right now. Most teams don’t give a shit about his BPM or WP48 last year.

There was no rush for a trade tho.

We should have been patient but I’m guessing that this is Willy’s market value right now. Most teams don’t give a shit about his BPM or WP48 last year.

That should be a good thing. That’s how you end up with a very good player on his extension making $8M a year instead of $20M. But, y’know, Knicks.

I think we would all also agree that when the best offer is poor, you are supposed to say “no”.

Ay-yep.

Can we trade the two 2RPs for Boban?

I would have liked to had subscribed to the theory that KP’s injury would’ve opened up pt for Willy, but he’s not a 4. Which lineups would’ve made sense with him?

You guys overvalue Willy way too much. He was a second round pick. We’re getting 2 of those in return for him. Its a good trade.

The overwhelming majority of second round picks can’t play basketball at the NBA level. Willy has played 1500 not-terrible minutes in the NBA. He has a career .545 eFG%. He’s also a good rebounder.

The two second round picks we got in exchange are likely to be a lot worse.

@201

Please. F2RPs.

Others have said it, but what’s really apparent is that the Knicks just don’t understand asset management in the least and that’s a huge part of being a successful NBA franchise. This trade probably does accurately represent what WHG’s value around the league is right now. He wasn’t a big prospect coming into the league, he has obvious flaws in his game, and he isn’t playing on a bad team. So to get two 2nd rounders for him is “fair” in that sense.

However, analyzing the trade in a vacuum like that really misses the forest for the trees. They took a good and promising young player and buried him on the depth chart this year. That in spite of the fact that the team is terrible and the first rule of terrible teams in the NBA is that you play your young guys. So for absolutely no reason they completely tanked his value, and then at the exact moment when an opportunity for him to get time and start rehabbing that value opens up, they dump him. Bonus points for the fact that the franchise player had a devastating injury last night, and this morning they dealt his best friend away.

If they didn’t love WHG for whatever reason that’s understandable. Maybe they rate his defense very low, maybe they see the writing on the wall that KP is a C long-term, maybe he clashed with coaches or whatever other reason we’re not privy to. But even if they had designs on trading him now was the worst time to do it. They could have gotten more six months ago if they knew they were going to bury him this year. They could in all likelihood have gotten more six months from now if they just started giving him run and let him put up the solid offensive stats he always has when he has played. Dumping him at this exact moment is so dumb.

Okay, so we’re trading a guy who is at least a decent NBA player, who has two very cheap years left on his contract, for two future players who are not that likely to help until at least 2021, and some of you think this is a good deal?

If I had to guess, I’d say the under/over on regular posters to this blog that could do a better job running the Knicks than current management is 25.

there could’ve been something else at play that we don’t know about… maybe wily was not working that hard and not making progress…. or being a bad influence on kp…. who knows….

but this was a serious punt…. was SA’s first rd’er on the table? it’s all speculation but i think it’s possible… and their first this year would’ve been a lot better haul….

I would be very surprised if SA’s 1st was on the table. Have they ever traded a 1st round pick in the Pop/Buford era?

If I had to guess, I’d say the under/over on regular posters to this blog that could do a better job running the Knicks than current management is 25.

DRed is ready from what I hear

SA has wasted a bunch of picks on draft and stash’s….. and they know wily can at least play…. and would’ve been cheaper than whoever they picked…. i don’t think it would’ve been unreasonable to include a 1st this year… altho i may have not gone that far… def next year’s top 20 protected….

Definitely agree with the idea that they depressed his value then traded him at the bottom. Me saying it wasn’t that bad is just referring to a value-for-value assessment of the trade.

One thing I’ll point out is that this comes into play with guys like O’Quinn and Lee also. If you bury them and then they want out (and they will), you’ll have a tougher time getting value for them also.

The difference being that there were some opportunities to use Willy and Dotson that would have satisfied the issues with burying vets that deserve minutes based on merit and potentially hurting their market value, but also developing the kids. They chose to maximize playing time for vets and do nothing for Willy and Dotson. That was wrong.

The spanish language thing is so utterly moronic lol

Max (a fellow Italian, right), this attitude is deserved here. Go on P&T and tell me what kind of analysis you get from there. BTW, I still think P&T is a good place to be, just a little more tailored to common fans

I think one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read on this board is that Willy was just a second round pick (who cost two second round picks to acquire) so we should be happy to get a couple of seconds back. So, I’m assuming that was just humor.

Yup, not happy about this. Why now? I’d like to hope that those two future seconds are going to be in some upcoming nice deal. If not, why do this at this time? No reason to deal Willy at this time. Oh wait, he speaks in Spanish too much, though. We can’t have that!

At the end of the day, you had a guy who was all-rookie his first year, improved during the year, can score efficiently and rebound, on a great team-friendly deal, and you then condemn him to the bench (thus reducing his trade value) and trade him for an expiring scrub and a couple of seconds 2-3 years in the future.

Stupid.

I don’t wanna get all knee jerky over this Willy trade, but at the very least it is VERY risky. The money saved is practically inconsequential as Willy is on a GREAT contract for the team. 2 future 2nds only has good value if:
1. Another team takes them in lieu of a 1st to absorb Noah
Or..
2. Charlotte absolutely sucks in a couple of years.

It kinda reeks of a “this is what we do to players who request trades, bwahahahahaaaa!” move because the rotation there is just as crowded.

Also, no way this was the best offer. I refuse..

I still like the Derrick Rose trade better.

now that I’ve had an hour to let this sink in……the only way this makes sense to me is if Willy is in the dog house, which he could be. If that’s the case, he’s been there all year…..we should have traded him in December when we could have had a 1 for him, or another young player. or we should have waited until the offseason, when he still would have been worth at least the 2 2’s. unless something else is up.

second thought…..coming back here every hour to see if something is up is like checking to see what the president tweeted. You know it’s something, and you know it’s not going to be good.

Do you think there will ever be a biopic about James Dolan that is as much fun as The Disaster Artist?

It could be they are still looking at a deal to move Noah for Biyombo (or trying to get Peyton) and they know they need picks, but don’t want to include a protected 1st.

If they move Noah and a couple of 2nds for Biyombo, they have their backup C to replace O’Quinn and then can deal KOQ.

Who knows what these guys are thinking.

It seems like just last June when people here were arguing that they wouldn’t trade Hernangomez for the #1 pick in this past year’s draft.

So, that’s the divide between KB perceived value and actually real-life NBA value.

Stratomatic says “I don’t care what we do at the deadline, as long as we win the deal”

Hey, Stratomatic says “I don’t care what we do at the deadline, as long as we win the deal”, did we win the deal? (And do you care now?)

Imagine the conversations Noah and Willy must have had about Horny and the FO.

The whole keep Willy bc he’s friends with KP is dumb. This isn’t grade school. And KP is going nowhere. He will take his extension with the Knicks bc now his value has dropped bc of this injury.

@227 Ciao Farfa! 🙂
I don’t comment or read comments on P&T (but I read the articles),
I’ve been here since Gallo’s years (fuck, the Carmelo’s trade… that’s one thing that I really hate) and deadline’s threads are always the funniest.

If this blog start rooting for Virtus Bologna I’ll be out in a second, it’s like asking me to root for Boston… 😉
And you had Messina too! I love him as next Knicks coach…

that would be interesting… trading noah + the 2nds for biyombo would be a win….

Imagine the conversations Noah and Willy must have had about Horny and the FO.

In Spanish, no doubt.

@250
Wow! chrisk06811 is Willy! Can we trade him to P&T for a couple of future members?

that would be interesting… trading noah + the 2nds for biyombo would be a win….

Biyomno is certainly better than Noah, but he’s signed for the same amount of time for roughly the same amount of money for a position where the Knicks are overstocked at, so I don’t think it would be much of a win. It’d be trading Willy just to have a less shitty highly-overpaid back-up back-up center.

¿Por qué Kyle no nos invitó al Bar Mitzvah?

Here they were, with a logjam at center, a misallocaton of assets that should have been used to improve the team.

Well, I guess they fixed the logjam at center.

I’m going to keep the google translator open for more fun later. I did translate “Did you see how fat Bernard King got? but I couldn’t bring myself to post it.

By comparing KP to Matt Harvey, I mean that he thinks he’s much better than he is (e.g. his comment that his fellow NBA players know that he deserved to be an all-star starter), got anointed too quickly by the press, and developed a sense of entitlement based more on hype than on performance. There’s a smugness that I find repulsive, a veiled excuse-making in his weak post-loss mea culpa interviews, and an undertone that he’s more interested in the lifestyle than the work it takes to be truly great.

On an entirely different note, and because it’s my happy place, I would like to point out that Carmelo Anthony is butt. His usage is down 20% playing next to Russ and PG and his TS% is at 50.8%. I have to take my basketball related joy anywhere I can find it right now and the fact that I don’t have to watch Melo play basketball is the only thing Knicks related I actually feel good about.

Oh, man. According to Begley, if KP did not get hurt, the “Knicks were planning to operate at the deadline as if they were competing for a playoff spot.”

I’m about to have a nervous breakdown
My head really hurts

Spanish! That’s why we get rid of Calderon after KP first year…

But really… even if this is true (and it obviously is lol) when did we start believing in Isola’s takes?

Could KP’s injury and the trade of Kareem Abdul Hernangomez do that to a fanbase?

Once we have established that 1 Curry=the known upper limit of terrible Nix trades, it becomes much easier to accurately measure all of the others. The Bargnani deal, for example, would have registered an impressive 876 milicurries. I doubt the Willy deal comes anywhere near such rarified heights. My initial reckoning is somewhere in the neighborhood of 200-250 mlc. I trust that Steve & Perry are capable of much, much more.

i hate using lol – but, that was seriously funny…

Would love to see the Knicks pursue skal labissiere

Perry was quoted as saying that any trade the Knicks do would make sense both now and in the future.

So, how does the Willy trade fulfill both of those?

Now: gets malcontent off the team. I guess?
Future: two probably/hopefully early second rounders.

Matt Harvey was arguably one of the 4 or 5 best starting pitchers in baseball when he was 24. That wasn’t hype. He got hurt and he almost certainly has substance abuse problems.

Harvey was better than Kristaps, but he also seemed to have problems of a different kind.

some good stuff in this article about kp’s injury.. the below was posted after kp’s rookie year:
https://fansided.com/2018/02/07/kristaps-porzingis-torn-acl-franchise-altering-event-knicks/amp/

Stotts says the Knicks would be wise to gather information on Porzingis’ biomechanics in order to develop a go-forward plan.

“Is there a connectedness and smoothness to the ankle, the hip? Take that systematic approach to his body,” Stotts said. “If there is something very simple like he’s got tight glutes and that’s putting undue stress on his knee, you want to address that first before you start adding muscle mass. There’s plenty of ways that you can do that — whether it’s range-of-motion activities, strength-training exercises. Some guys do plyometrics — depending on what exactly that weak link in the chain is.

“Then if there’s not any areas of concern and you feel that his overall biomechanical rhythm is good, then you start working on some strength training. But also, you want to start doing basketball-related activities.”

An accumulation of minor injuries isn’t necessarily a cause for concern in and of itself, but that changes when the injuries are all to the same side of the body, which is true of Porzingis.

“It would be irresponsible to ignore the fact that he’s had a left quad injury, a left hip injury, a left IT band injury, all these things in the left,” Stotts said. “Maybe there is something going on with that left kinetic chain. What you really need to do is address the weakest link in that chain if there is something that’s causing him to have a problem in that left side. You got to make sure that these seemingly minor things aren’t all connected and result in something major.”

Perhaps Dolan – an enthusiastic Trumpista – overheard Spanish being spoken and immediately sent word to Perry to unload Willy for whatever he could get prior to the March 5 expiration date of the DACA program.

@274 Kobe uses to speak with Vujacic in italian, nobody ever said anything about it. It’s one thing to speak unknown languages to exclude someone on purpose, and a totally different one to do it when you have a one on one conversation and someone is casually around (or when you’re helping someone that’s new with english).

The Clips extended Lou Williams. Might that slightly improve the market for Lee?

I’m trying to feel good about something Knicks related.

“The Knicks were planning to operate at the deadline as though they were in a situation with no conceivable relationship to the situation they were actually in”. Makes sense.

QUE PENDEJOS MIERDA.

BASURA

I hope Knicks trade Courtney for just cap space (e.g., Aldrich’s expiring contract) if that’s all there is. There’s gonna be some interesting signings available this summer since many teams won’t have cap space. For example, if we have a lot of cap, one idea might be to offer Hezonja 8m/yr on a 2 year deal where the 2nd year is a team option? He’s improved some the past few months so might be a low-risk deal. If he breaks out, we might have our SF.

So GSW is offering 2nd round pick for KOQ, not Looney or 30th pick?

I think kp is close to bradley… even though hes more athletic and slightly shorter….

Hes going to have a grueling rehab… and hopefully he puts in the work… but i wouldnt say its a given he has a full recovery…. but thats speculation for next season…

FML

FWIW Pelton’s grades on the trade are B for CHA and C for NY.

Does anyone know if there’s a Knickerblogger equivalent site for the Nets? Asking for a friend.

@301
Used to be one, they sold it to the Lakers in the Lopez/Mozgov/Russel trade.

This is what the market will bear. That’s the silver lining. The market is still stupid. A guy with a .187 WP48 in 1500 minutes under team control for two more years on a second-round contract goes from our third string to somebody else’s for effectively nothing. You can get bribed to take Kenneth Faried. San Antonio likes guys like Aldridge and Rudy Gay now and might let Kyle Anderson walk. This is not even low-hanging fruit. It’s on the ground. Everywhere. You could trip over it. Which is pretty much what we have to hope for because this team is and always will be run by idiots.

Once we have established that 1 Curry=the known upper limit of terrible Nix trades

Well we gave Orlando a 2nd round pick to hire Perry so maybe any 2RP should be referred to as “a Perry”. We just got 2 Perrys for WHG. Maybe we could include Perry himself (not a Perry) in any Orlando deal: We give them Perry and a Perry for Payton. There’s no restriction on trading a GM to original team within a year like there is for players, right?

Johnny O’Bryant is being waived.

The horrible Alexander trade at least got the Tigers to the playoffs, but yeah, that was brutal. One of my favorites of those types of trades was the Mets trading a young Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. I’m still convinced that the Mets thought they were getting Carlos Zambrano.

The “curry” idea is great. I propose another metric, the “isiah”, for redundant acquisitions. i.e. signing Hardaway when you already had Lee and had no PGs, = .80 isiahs.

@298

I can’t believe someone on an advanced stats oriented site would say Nolan Ryan was one of the greatest pitchers in history.
Nolan Ryan = Dominique Wilkins

You must not be a long suffering Mets fan!
🙂

No surprise JOB is being waived. Cap space!
🙂

So, which of the two way guys is coming up?

Well we gave Orlando a 2nd round pick to hire Perry so maybe any 2RP should be referred to as “a Perry”.

Sorry it was Kings not Orlando but it’s easy to confuse those two teams. BTW they were always gonna trade WHG by deadline so bizarre that Hornacek put him in last game for 2 minutes of garbage time. What if he suffered a serious injury? Is front office and coach communicating or does Hornacek just hate WHG? Kinda like him pulling Noah from that game?

I know what Dolan is trying to do. He wants us to volunteer to run the front office instead of asking for pay to run it correctly.

I’d like us to give that big from UNC on the Westies a look now. If he’s good we can sign him to a one year deal or trade him for a second round pick.

@318 Who say tanking wouldn’t be painful?
Brace yourself, the next two years’ll be a looong walk through the desert…

(does anybody remember 1985-87 years when at some point Cartwright, King AND Ewing were all injured and we started the likes of Ken Bannister and Eddie Lee Wilkins?)

@323

(does anybody remember 1985-87 when at some point Cartwright, King AND Ewing were all injured and we started the likes of Ken Bannister and Eddie Lee Wilkins?)

From a Knickerblogger thread in 2045:

Does anybody remember 2017-18 when at some point we started the likes of Jarrett Jack and Michael Beasley!

@Max, I laughed. Thanks.

@325 LOL

Beasley’ll still play in 2045, he’ll be the “walking with a cane bucket”

lou williams is signing an extension with the clips… which seems like good news for a potential lee deal….

Tyreke Evans and maybe Rodney Hood will still get moved before Lee.

Serious question: how often in NBA history has a team had a guy on the All-Rookie team and then traded him before the end of the next year without getting a 1st rounder or decent player back?

I’m guessing that it is pretty rare.

And then narrow to such players who didn’t even play much that next year despite not being injured? And, finally, were on very team-friendly deals?

Serious question: how often in NBA history has a team had a guy on the All-Rookie team and then traded him before the end of the next year without getting a 1st rounder or decent player back?

Jahlil Okafor, Nerlens Noel, and Trey Burke were all recent members of the all-rookie team that we’re traded for 2nd round picks. (It’s not as illustrious as it sounds, and, honestly, rookie accolades shouldn’t mean much going forward).

@333
Michael Carter Williams was ROY in 2013-2014, traded to MILW in 2014-2015 in a 3 teams deal, that didn’t include star players but a first rounder:

February 19, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Milwaukee Bucks; the Milwaukee Bucks traded Brandon Knight and Kendall Marshall to the Phoenix Suns; the Phoenix Suns traded Tyler Ennis and Miles Plumlee to the Milwaukee Bucks; and the Phoenix Suns traded a 2018 1st round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers. (PHI 1st round pick received from PHO is LAL’s and is top-5 protected in 2015 and top-3 protected in 2016 & 2017. Became unprotected 2018 pick)

At the time it made news, then everybody understand that is numbers were fake and he’s not a good player…

Biyomno is certainly better than Noah, but he’s signed for the same amount of time for roughly the same amount of money for a position where the Knicks are overstocked at, so I don’t think it would be much of a win. It’d be trading Willy just to have a less shitty highly-overpaid back-up back-up center.

If they are planning to move Q’Quinn, they would actually have a bit of a shortage at C with Willy gone, Noah exiled, and KP out. If you move Noah for Biyombo, that frees you to trade O’Quinn and Biyombo becomes your energy guy off the bench behind Kanter.

It doesn’t help us much in terms of cap and I would argue that Biyombo is so bad on offense it’s a downgrade from both O’Quinn and Willy as a backup, but at least there is some logic to the thought process. Baby steps for these guys. 🙂

Couldn’t they at least have gotten their 2019 and 2020 picks? Was that really impossible?

Still doesn’t add up…Is it possible perry and mills see koq as part of the future and therefore whg was expendable?
From that perspective it makes sense to get two picks for a player you have no need for but Do they then think they can get some hometown discount for koq in the offseason let alone Do we have any need for koq as a backup center?
Trying to make sense of this … So far I got nothing.

“The reason for 2nd rounders is that once in a while you’re lucky enough to get a Willy.”

….and then trade him away for more 2nd round picks and start over again – brilliant

@343

That’s another scenario. Maybe they want and expect to keep KOQ through another contract. So they took the best offer available for Willy since he was not part of their long term plans anyway (I’m not saying I agree). We are going to find out what their thinking is shorty, but my fear is that there is no plan and they are not thinking.

@346

It’s a subtle move by the FO, they timed exactly for the end of Shaquille Hernangomez’s contract,
so they can sign him to a 4yrs/72mil contract.
“See guys? We have WHG and the picks! Are we geniuses right?”

Well, Mills just pulled something like that off by signing Hardaway. So, he might be trying it again with Willy! If it works once…
🙂

@323 yes I remember the Animal and Eddie Lee nightmare season. I also recall 160 pound Louis Orr at power forward

@351 So for us this’ll be a walk in the park 🙂

Eddie Lee played one year for my team in the Italian League (with Reggie Theus)… and we got relegated! 😀

Kanter our tomorrow.

So, a few hours after the deadline and we enter our next game with one active big on the roster. I guess we sorted our logjam…

FYI rotation looks rooted when you look at the outs.

Baker – done for season
KP – done for season
Noah – exile
Kanter – mouth surgery
Willy – traded

Time to release the Bees ha ha. Would like to see Kornet get a call up. May as well at this point.

I think most you guys have are seriously predisposed to thinking the Knicks can’t do anything right. Willie was a second round pick who has pretty much looked like SHIT all year. People harp on Kanter’s defensive issues, well he Kanter looked liked Ewing compared to the effort I’ve seen Wille put forth on defense this year. I’m pretty confident that at least 1 of those 2nd rd picks will turn to be at least as good as Willie.

Good luck in Charlotte my dude.

I’m much more concerned about what we get for Lee.

Willy was never gonna be a great player. His ceiling was Enes Kanter. I agree with people saying we completely mismanaged him. He should have gotten minutes, and with his super low salary, I think he would have had quite a bit of value to top a team at/near the tax that needed another big man, similar to how Mozgov got the Nuggets 2 first rounders from Cleveland just because his salary was palatable to Cleveland.

This trade though is not that catastrophic. The catastrophic trade will be bribing a team to take Noah. If that happens, it’ll be a big step back to the Isiah days.

Somebody said earlier that the Knicks never know how to do asset management correctly. That’s exactly right. They don’t think strategically about how to maximize gains and minimize losses, or how to balance risk and reward.

Btw I love this “maybe he was getting schooled in practice” theory. He put up great numbers in actual NBA games.

You know who else is probably sucking ass in team scrimmages? Frank. Should we trade him, too?

By going for the playoffs the Knicks killed his trade value in the name of Veteran presence. Our front office misjudged our ability to compete as usual and is now changing direction too late, as usual.

It could well be the case that Willy was out of the rotation because he gets schooled in practice

Probably so. Kanter schools most starting centers in the league getting paid exponentially more than Willy.

There are only a few ways to improve talent. FA and team signings, draft picks, and trades. The knicks consistently lose trades and sign bad contracts year after year after year.

The only rational reason for the Willy trade is that he asked for a trade and didn’t want to stay and the front office moved him now as a favor. I don’t know if I buy it but if he wanted to move and the team had no real long-term plans for him then moving him could have just been doing him a solid which matters since KP is his best friend.

Still terrible trade. No reason not to at least play a lot him for the rest of the year and see if his value increases. Worst case he has no value and you lose out on tw0 future 2nds which have almost zero value, best case you get actual value in a trade or decide to keep him.

there’s so little to say about KP’s injury and how bad a moment this is for us; almost nothing really except the few brave souls who heroically tried to put lipstick on the pig last night. so it makes sense that it’s mostly 400 posts exhaustively analyzing the trade of
hernangomez for 2 second round picks. still i can’t help but think of how strange it will seem to the curious archive surfer in 2023 wondering what everyone was thinking the day after the big acl tear and finding this. so let me point out the obvious that this is a fucking horrible day to be a diehard knick fan. and that’s relative to the low level horror that’s been the knick fan baseline for most of the past 18 years. porzingis might recover okay but he also might not, and odds are pretty good that even in a decent outcome we’ll always have to wonder about the best case counterfactual for the most hopeful and interesting young player we’ve had in recent memory. plus for those of us who watch even the stupidest of games, the next 80 or so games just went from blah to utter shit. unless we win the lottery and get doncic then forget all this.

The KP injury was a horrible accident. Everyone feels the pain.
Willy’s trade was a self inflicted low IQ error by the FO, that has a terrible history of plays like this.

I’m actually semi-intrigued to see Kornet and Hicks play. kornet shot 44% from 3 on nearly 200 attempts and almost 2 blocks per 36. He also had nearly 50% of his shot attempts come from 3 so he’s a classic stretch 5 who has some rim protection traits. Might be interesting and maybe the FO actually just liked him better for the modern NBA than they liked Willy.

Boy I can really be optimistic about anything lol

I just want Hicks to take all of Lance’s minutes.

Willy Hernangomez is definitely the next Knicks player who goes on to be a good ball player after the Knicks gave up on him.

I mean, Kornet as a longer, taller Novak could be fun to watch at least. But we need to add a lot more talent, and not 2nd round talent.

This Minnesota-Cleveland game is crazy, 138-138 in OT. LeBron 35-15-10., just rejected Butler, probably double OT.

LeBron just won it, insane

But how?
With an insane help defense block.
Then, an even more insane play with 1 second left. Catch 1/2 court pass and shoot fadeaway near top of key with Butler in his face.
He’s not human.

Well Lebron said he’d give us better stats

Suns getting beaten by 47 after 3 quarters, putting them at risk of relegation into the G-League.

Any chance we could trade them Kanter or O’Quinn for a future second? Should be a good pick since they’re going to be so bad. Maybe we could throw in a first as a sweetener. Do you think they’d give us back another 2nd if we add a lottery pick?