[SNY Knicks] Hornacek: ‘No reason’ to send struggling Ntilikina to G League (Monday, January 22, 2018 7:01:43 PM)
Knicks head coach Jeff Hornacek dismissed the idea of demoting rookie point guard Frank Ntilikina to G League Westchester after he has been held scoreless two of the past three games.
[NYTimes] Milwaukee Bucks, Seeking a Change in Leadership, Fire Jason Kidd (Tuesday, January 23, 2018 4:03:25 AM)
The underperforming Bucks had recently dropped into the No. 8 spot in the Eastern Conference playoff standings despite a roster loaded with talent.
(Monday, January 22, 2018 7:02:13 PM)
SAN FRANCISCO — Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek and associate coach Kurt Rambis hopped from player to player Monday after practice, sitting with many of them, looking at video on a laptop one day after the Lakers feasted on the Knicks defense. The attention to detail was at its highest during a two-plus-hour practice at the…
(Monday, January 22, 2018 6:38:17 PM)
SAN FRANCISCO — Knicks rookie point guard Frank Ntilikina knows he’s not the first lottery pick to have an up-and-down first year. “I know it’s going to take time. You see a lot of rookies go through that season where they’re not consistent and show flashes,’’ Ntilikina said. “That’s what I’m doing. I’m showing flashes….
(Monday, January 22, 2018 5:49:43 PM)
“While this decision was a difficult one, we have a great deal of regard for each other.”
(Monday, January 22, 2018 4:14:06 PM)
SAN FRANCISCO — Kristaps Porzingis had Knicks coaches place a black iron device inside the rim, making it smaller. He spent half an hour after Monday’s practice as the last player on the court at the Olympic Club, working on his shot with Knicks assistant Dave Bliss. The device reduced his margin of error and…
(Monday, January 22, 2018 9:13:57 AM)
LOS ANGELES — The big story in La La Land Sunday was not Lonzo Ball, but their point guard on a two-way contract, Alex Caruso. The undrafted G Leaguer piled up a career-high nine points with eight assists, four rebounds, two steals and was a plus-24 in the Lakers’ 127-107 clubbing of the Knicks. On…
[NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis gearing up for matchup vs. Draymond Green (Monday, January 22, 2018 3:31:08 PM)
Green has pounded Porzingis on the court and taken shots at him through the media.
[NYDN] Knicks may go after Kentavious Caldwell-Pope this summer (Monday, January 22, 2018 7:54:24 AM)
As the Knicks plot out their future during this downtrending season, a particular mold of player remains a priority: an athletic wing.
(Monday, January 22, 2018 8:42:01 PM)
SAN FRANCISCO — If the Knicks gave up 127 points to the Lakers on Sunday, how many are they going to give up to the Warriors on Tuesday night?
91 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.01.23)”
The Knicks should go gauge Jason Kidd’s interest in coming on as an assistant coach or as a replacement for Jeff H. He could help mentor Frank and give the Knicks someone who might be able to teach Frank how to be a NBA PG.
Thanks to ZMan for the post defining a possession. While I was right according to the rule book, I see the advanced stats consider it differently.
G State -14, 227 tonight. I like that over.
I laughed when I saw the KCP headline above. Yet another 2 guard who doesn’t pass, with the added bonus that he can’t shoot. Sweet!
Re: the Kemba trade proposal in the previous thread: Kemba Walker, Batum and no major injuries would get us in the playoffs this year and next. It’s not what I want at the expense of youth and ping pong balls, but if that’s what you want, then giving up O’Quinn would not make sense. If anything, O’Quinn should get more minutes if you want to go all in.
Kemba, Timmy, Batum, KP, O’Quinn/Noah/Willy, with Jack, Lee, McD, Beasley off the bench is a legit 45+ win playoff team in the East and could be fun as hell to watch. It’s not the direction I would go, but I wouldn’t hate hate hate it since we’d keep our picks in this scenario and have a reason to watch.
I’d hate adding Nic Batum and Kemba Walker pretty hard unless KP turns into a top 5 level player and Willy replicates what Kanter is doing for us. From everything I’ve read, the Knicks don’t want to give up youth/draft picks unless it’s for a transformative talent, and I even read they’re waiting to be players in the 2019 free agency, or the year Kawhi Leonard can become a free agent and not sign with the Knicks. We’re most likely out of the Walker trade talks, and I would hope the Knicks are bright enough to give away Courtney Lee and O’Quinn to Cleveland for nothing.
I’m not a fan of this move.
1. It’s too soon to tell how good Frank will be relative to Kemba in a few years when you consider defense. If he’s not as good, he’s still unlikely to be a bust given he’s already a plus defender or at least close.
2. As much as I’d like to trade Kanter, Batum’s contract is clearly worse.
Even if you think Kemba is and will remain better for 5-6 years, that means taking on the worse Batum contract makes this portion of the deal about fair in value terms (unless of course you think Frank is going to be a bust). We’d be more or less giving away O’Quinn and Baker for close to free.
On top of that, we are going to have to pay through the nose for Kemba after next year and Frank will still be very cheap (and likely better than he is now).
the kemba deal is intriguing because cap space is a bit overrated… i don’t think there are many free agents to be excited for since most players will either be restricted or too old or not leaving….
here’s a list of 2018 and 2019 UFAs that look ok:
kyrie irving
kevin love
khris middleton
jimmy butler
kawhi leonard
jonas valanciunas
nerlens noel
kevin durant
out of all those… i can maybe count love and noel as players that are realistically leaving their teams…. and only noel as a guy i might want… although love i can maybe get talked into also…
the restricted market is a lot better but it’s restricted….
of course waiting around for a better deal is probably better and we don’t know what would be acceptable to charlotte but if they’re talking kemba then i wouldn’t automatically hang up….
1. Apparently we aren’t going to resign O’Quinn, so trade him and get whatever we can for him (I would WAY rather trade Kanter and re-sign O’Quinn).
2. Develop Willy for the rest of this year and next year. When Kanter’s contract is done, either trade him or let him walk and take the cap space. Willy is the new starter.
3. If someone offers some reasonable for Lee ( a couple of good 2nd round picks, a decent young player etc..) and we don’t take on a different worse contract, get that done.
4. Beasley’s value is pretty high now. It’s worth seeing what we could get.
djphan,
I think cap space is generally underrated even if the value varies from year to year based on who is available and who might be willing to sign with you.
When there aren’t any free agents available to fill your needs or the best ones won’t sign with you because you stink, what you are supposed to do is sign some vets to a 1 year deal or 2 year deal with a team option to roll that cap space over to the next year and give yourself another chance to put something good into it.
That’s what the 76ers did. They overpaid Reddick and Amir Johnson to get them to sign 1 years deals that would help the team compete for a playoff spot and get the kids some experience, but then free up that cap space again next year hoping to roll it into another star later because they couldn’t get one last year. If it doesn’t work again this year, they should do the same thing again.
Now that I think about it..if the Knicks were to trade for a 3 with a large contract- I’d much rather see Perry target Khris Middleton. He just may be attainable in the fallout from the Kidd firing
I would trade Lee and O’Quinn for Shumpert’s player option and Frye’s expiring contract straight up. Clearing the books, making the team a little worse to increase draft odds, and freeing up minutes for Frank, Dotson, and TH2 at the 2 is ideal for me. Cleveland might even be gracious enough to throw in their 1st round pick for a 3 and D guy who leads the league in free throw percentage.
Begley is reporting that the Knicks have been receiving interest in both Lance Thomas and Courtney Lee. I find that very hard to believe because if anybody was dumb enough to ask for Lance Thomas’s 27 minutes of uselessness he would have been express shipped out of town.
@9. yeah, I’d do that in a second for the reasons you stated. I don’t see how Cleve can say no.
@IanBegley
More Ian Begley Retweeted ESPN New York
Golden State is among the teams to express interest in Kyle O’Quinn, per sources. Enes Kanter has also drawn interest as the trade deadline nears. More here:
@9
I would only do that trade if we got some kind of an asset. Whether it was Osman or their late 1st I’d need some kind of an asset. Also I’d try really hard to pawn Thomas on them as well.
Lee, Thomas, OQuinn for Shumpert, Frye, Osman
Lance is a veteran 3 and D presence, just the type of player a contender could use.
I wonder if the sixers would have any interest in Lee. He’d be a good fit.
You think Kyle might enjoy playing for the Warriors? Play 20 minutes a night, bust your butt on defense, throw down a few uncontested dunks here and there and get a ring at the end of the season.
The only downside is he’d lose those sweet NYC area Bar Mitzvah gigs.
its not a popular opinion but i wouldn’t make anyone untouchable on this team if the right deal came around, that includes KP.
cap space is valuable and every team should try to use it as efficiently as possible… but if you’re still in talent accumulation mode and there isn’t many options available in the foreseeable future then tying it up during that period isn’t that big a deal… the sixers are doing it but they already have their core…
we still have to get that core figured out….
The Warriors (and other teams) should want to trade for O’Quinn to keep the Cavs from trading for him. The Cavs badly need rebounding and shotblocking
@9
In that scenario, we are clearly giving up a lot more value than we are getting back. IMO, that’s not the path to heaven. I don’t think any theoretical advantage in ping pong balls we gain (and guessing lucky) in the draft is not large enough to make up the gap. I’d need a pick and/or asset.
Anyone think there’s a trade involving Charlotte and Cleveland that could be worked out?
Something kind of blockbustery involving Kemba, Batum and Dwight for IT, Love and other flotsam and a pick?
@17
I totally agree with you on that.
That’s one reason I’ve been saying we aren’t in terrible shape even though we have a few marginal and bad contracts. By the time KP, Frank, Willy, THJ, and whoever we add in the draft are ready to start peaking, all those suspect contracts will be gone. It’s not critical to get rid of any of them unless they are costing us an opportunity to sign someone now. IMO, the idea is still to move them and get better assets if possible, not get another bad one.
the problem is that we only have one player we know we want to keep around for awhile… that’s kp and presumably th2 now… every other young guy could conceivably be out of the nba in the next couple of years…. that’s why we need our picks to be as valuable as possible… and also hit on them….. so signing guys to short term deals doesn’t do much….
using the cap space on kemba wouldn’t be terrible… but hitting on a pick would do so much more for us that i would be concentrating on that outcome for this year….
Earlier in the season when the knicks were higher in the standings, I thought Kemba would have been a good piece to move them up a notch, and worth giving up something of value.
At this time, giving up anything more than a second rounder or some garbage on the roster would set the knicks back.
i totally agree, the asking price for walker is too high
@18 I don’t really think the Warriors are afraid of the Cavs getting O’quinn.
By WS or BPM O’Quinn would be either the second or 3rd best player on the Cavs roster. That team is Lebron, Kevin Love and a collection of scrubs.
Here’s the list of Cavs big men with a positive DBPM:
Maybe there’s a good reason why Willy isn’t getting playing time. Like, he sucks.
I was all in on Willy last year, but he looks horrible on the court this season. Give him minutes and let’s see what he can do. Then, play him or trade him.
Kanter’s going to be around for another year, so there’s really no immediate decision to be made on him. But, unlike most people here, I think he can be part of the core going forward if you can sign him to a reasonable contract. Emphasis should be on filling in the pieces between him, KP and THJ; ideally one elite player and one high quality piece.
wily started this way last year also…. perception is a bit clouded on him by the fact that he keeps turning the ball over and looks bad doing it…. it regressed to a normal level by the end of the last year and it ended up pretty decent….
he’s played very sparingly and i think he’s one of those guys that needs to get in a groove which is why he’s frustrated by the minutes he’s getting… his upside is still pretty decent imo….
I think it is harsh to crap on Willy (or anyone for that matter) when the guy mostly sits or gets spot minutes. When he was in the rotation last year the guy looked good and improved over time. IIRC there were nights when he looked like the best player for the Knicks on the court, at a paltry salary. If he were getting OQ’s minutes he’d look much better, I think, since he’d at least be playing with the guys in real games, developing some rapport with the guys he regularly plays with, etc.
The problem is that Kanter and OQ combined make for a pretty good 5, so Willy is odd man out until one of them is moved.
Cleveland looks like a mess. I wonder if they might actually sell a bit. Love seems really unpopular there, LBJ is probably leaving, etc. I guess you can’t sell with Lebron on the roster, but knowing that he is leaving…
I bet Kidd would be a tremendous assistant coach. It’s just as a head coach that he gets kind of power-mad.
The way I see it any team is going to need a lot of luck to win a title this year if the Warriors are at full strength. But if Steph, KD or Dray gets dinged up, you have a chance. All the Cavs need are some guys who don’t suck. Their best PG so far this year has been Jose Calderon. Their best wing player has been either Dwayne Wade or Kyle Korver. Kevin Love is pretty good, but they have no big men who can play defense. What I’m saying is it should be pretty easy to upgrade the rest of the team because it’s been so bad. If Isaiah gets back to something close to his career norms and you add 3 solid players you’ve still got the GOAT and you would be a handful for any team in the East. Find solid players on shit teams looking for salary relief-it shouldn’t be impossible.
I would not want Jason Kidd as an assistant coach because he would immediately start plotting how he could push out the head coach to take over.
We need to keep Hornaceck for another year at least. I mean has he really done anything that outrageous? Yeah sometimes I scratch my head at his rotations but the thing is this roster is super flawed and we all knew that. The difference between our 6th best player and our 11th best player is not really that much and a lot of our players might be good at one thing but flawed in other serious areas. There’s dead weight on the cap and we have too many centers. If anything the team has performed better than expected and if Hardaway doesn’t go down for half of the season so far we probably are still in the top 8 of the east and still thinking playoffs.
The Knicks haven’t had a coach last for more than 3 seasons since Van Gundy. Who out there that we can realistically get is going to make the team so much better? Why not roll with the same guy and keep some continuity. He seems likable enough and knowledgeable enough. We can get a better coach when the team is ready to take that next step. And yes, I would like Horns to play the younger players more but that may not be completely up to him.
Lebron is such a douche. He dictates that the Cavs resign all these scrubs to huge contracts, gets them to trade all their good players and now he’s going to bolt AGAIN. I mean, dude is such a front runner its not even funny. And yes, he is the greatest bball player of this age but jesus he is so lame. Would not be surprised to see him try and join the Warriors.
I wonder if the Knicks could get Kevon Looney and Patrick McCaw from the Warriors for Jack and O’Quinn.
The correct thing to do would be to trade any/all vets for assets, meaning decent, young players or picks.
But the Knicks never seem to want to do a full rebuild, so I fully expect a ridiculous trade like the Kemba one.
That’s great news, though, that there is interest in Kanter. He has to be one of the most frustrating basketball players in the league right now. I would trade him AND O’Quinn for picks/young players and just use KP at center more. We can also play Noah backup minutes.
And if we can trade Thomas and/or Lee, that would be icing on the cake.
Send KP to the Warriors. If we’re never going to win a championship in the next 10 years then at least we take down 28 other teams with us.
Lebron isn’t a front-runner, because he’s the front. Kevin Durant is a front-runner (and also very smart for wanting to win)
Time to give WHG 40 minutes tonight
I mean, Lebron isn’t as bad as KD but I just think its so sketch that he’s doing the exact same thing to Cleveland that he did before he went to Miami. He’s not giving them any hint on if he plans to stay, basically screwing them over because they can’t make trades to prepare for him leaving yet but they also don’t want to take on some big piece long term in case he bolts.
At least before when he went to Miami he had never won a ring and those Cavs teams really did not have anything besides him. But this time around they had Kyrie and Love. They went to the finals and even won a ring. I just feel like as far as cementing your legacy, he would be better off staying with the Cavs instead of bolting again. And looking back on it, he made a big deal about coming home again bc of loyalty but the truth is he left Miami bc Wade was getting older and now the cavs had Irving and draft picks. I get that its “smart” but its lame from a fan perspective.
He got everything he wanted/requested from the Cavs this time and now he’s gonna leave them high and dry. At least with Durant he actually stayed at OKC much longer than Lebron did with Cleveland the first time and he wasn’t making all those oaths about loyalty and being from “the land.”
no kp or koq tonite; whoa can we lose by 100?
Dan Gilbert is a shitbag. I’m sure that’s a part of it. I do feel a bit bad for the Cleveland fans though.
@5
Jalen Rose is reporting that Kawhi wants out of SA. I would assume that SA will not trade him, but he has a player option on 2019. At that point Poppovich will likely retire, and SA might go nuclear with their roster.
If you get under the cap and manage to be competitive, you might sign Kawhi for his 28-32 year old seasons. You just need not to sign Porzingis to an extension till he is a RFA, stretch Noah, and trade Lee and Lance Thomas.
This could be a golden opportunity, but you have to keep a cheap, young and competitive roster to make Kawhi want to come here, and that means keeping the young guys we have and not signing anyone older than Kawhi.
KP sits for games at Houston and at Golden State.
Pretty obvious what the Knicks are doing, you’re gonna get killed either way, don’t let your “franchise” player be part of the humiliation.
@38
LOL! Very funny.
No KP or OQ? Poor Willy. He’ll finally get some minutes but probably look terrible vs. the Warriors.
Good night for Beasley to take 40 or so shots…trade value!
Kawhi for KP and French Prince. Who says no?
I agree.
What I’d really like see is the knicks test Noah to start games (since they’re stuck with him, and he looked good in his eight minutes this season), and have Willy come off the bench for him. Eventually maybe those roles could be reversed.
If it worked, the knicks could trade both KOQ and Willy. If it didn’t work, then they’d be back to where they are now, with a few more losses and few more answers. But, keeping four centers for half season and counting?
Oh my. 30 mins of Kanter, Beasley and Thomas with no KP and O’Quinn!
Things that may happen tonight:
– G State scores 120. Before the 4th quarter starts.
– Beasley gets triple double with 10+ turnovers
– Kanter fouls out in 3 minutes and fights Draymond, who gets ejected
– Noah is exhumed and looks great, waving his arms frantically for 10 minutes, but misses 7 layups
– Lance plays 35 mins but is outscored by KP and OQuinn
spurs says ” and a 2018 first”
that’s funny 🙂
i know lue didn’t mean it this way – i think – but, not a ringing endorsement on love’s defensive prowess:
No way Kawhi Leonard walks away from 60 win seasons and $220M, but if he does, we’d have a hell of a defense to offer him in NY with KP and himself. Worst case scenario is he ends up in Boston.
Frank / Tim / Kawhi / BEASSSSSS / KP starting 5, Lolll
With Kawhi, KP, a seasoned Frank, and a competent THj, we could actually get away with Beas in the starting lineup. That team might actually be great!
7 years of dealing with an Ayton, Tatum, Kawhi, Kyrie and Jaylen Brown line-up. Ugh.
Jalen Rose isn’t reporting it. He’s justifying the report that has been denied by both the Spurs and the Leonard team.
Paraphrased: “I think that having All-Star teammates is so important that I’ve forgotten how much the Spurs have won over the last few years despite aging and retirement of three future Hall-of-Fame players.”
Paraphrased: “I harbor selfish impulses when it comes to team-building, therefore Kawhi is probably pissed off that Pop won’t let him be GM like LeBron is.”
Paraphrased: “It’s weird that he’s been injured so long and that he apparently got injured again after being cleared to play. That’s weird! Suspicious, no?”
Paraphrased: “I have no evidence for this point, but this reminds me of an extreme example of rehab failure, and I want it to remind you of that, too.”
Also, he doesn’t know what the fuck “tenfold” means.
I fear for Jared Jack’s mental health tonight if he logs lots of minutes. I remember Calderon trying to stay with Curry back in his last season here. He looked shell-shocked.
Just play all the kids. 30 minutes for Willy, Frank, Dotson, Burke. Sure, let Beas play a bunch and get his pointz.
What the over/under for the # of shots that THJ and Beasley each put up tonight?
threefold?
Tidbit from Begley about Trey Burke’s deal with the Knicks:
wait wait wait wait. i thought dudes who can’t get a roster spot on any other team get $4+MM with player options from the Knicks. This Burke deal seems shockingly normal!
Sounds like George Hill to the Cavs might happen.
That’s actually a nice fit, and a nice pivot by the Kings depending on what they’re taking back. If they get any draft picks out of it, they basically turned cap space into a draft asset, which is what everyone wanted them to do in the first place.
Good lesson is that signing good players to reasonable contracts that are tradeable is an ok thing to do even if they are not on the same “timeline” as the rest of the team.
Unfortunately it sounds as if Shump/Frye are going, which means they won’t be coming to us in some sort of a trade that involves 2018 CLE draft pick to us.
@61
It might just mean that they don’t value Burke as much as Ron. They may think that Ron is part of the core… Seriously.
🙂
BTW, I love Barea’s response to Wall’s “midget” remark. Zing!
Thank you.
That’s what I’ve been saying.
As long as you keep winning trades and the players are on a good contracts, you can always move them for something that fits better, or better yet, roll them up into something better.
So if you’re part of the core, then lock him up with a guaranteed second year, NOT a player option!!
When have the Knicks ever done this? The most recent I can think of is Mark Jackson for Charles Smith. (has brief seizure).
Baker was a Mills move and you can’t really reverse that. The Burke contract is just competent negotiating.
I’m going to be 59 in week and I can’t remember the last time. 🙂
Seriously, maybe Perry is going to be just like the rest of them. I wasn’t particularly excited by his record when he came here. However, I think he won the Melo deal. I was against the Beasley signing initially for a few reasons, but now I think it was a good move (maybe we can even get something for him). Burke looks like a decent move. So let’s see if he pulls a rabbit out of his hat at the trade deadline. We need some hope. Right now we at least have some hope. We aren’t positioned badly. It will just take a little time if we don’t screw up.
How awkward must it be for Mills to have to explain that deal to Perry.
Perry: “Steve, I mean, what exactly happened here? How’d you negotiate this Baker deal?”
Mills: “Well, they asked for the player option, I said no, they asked again…so I gave it to them.”
Perry: “That’s it? You just, gave it to them? You know that’s not how it’s supposed to work, right?
Mills: “It’s not? Man, they should really teach us this stuff at Princeton…”
Happy Bday Strat. Maybe once in our lifetimes the Knicks will make a savy trade.
Getting Dave Debusschere for Howard Komives and Walt Bellamy was a pretty good trade. That goes back many moons to my childhood. Now I’m 63 and recovering from major open heart surgery. Good trades are few and far between.
camby for oakley was a phenomenal trade but had the side effect of feeling like you were selling your soul for it….
Onefold – the Knicks are not getting Kawhi Leonard.
He is a great player and I’d love if they were to get him somehow. But the chances are so remote it is not even worth discussing.
Discussing outlandish trades and unrealistic FA hopes is part of what we do here though ha ha
howdy at KFICL…i hope you’re recovering well…be careful with adding to much knick basketball to your diet 🙂
I haven’t heard this podcast, but my experience with Dunc’d On is that they basically don’t think much of Ntilikina. They are somewhat surprised when he just has a reasonsble game and talk about him like his long term potential is a role player who is good at defense. If you agree with that view you probably like the trade.
Thanks, I seem to be doing well. Yeah, Knick basketball can clog your arteries as well as the lanes especially if you imbibe some iso-jab steps
@77
Get well, KFICL!
I’m all for adding KL if he were to become a free agent in 2 years. Let’s build the core, first, then go after him!
Since KP is imitating Melo, maybe he plays in the all-star game and then shuts it down for the rest of the season…
KFICL, fuck everything green! Hope continues to go well with your health, us old guys have to stick together. And the day that the Knicks traded Komives/Bellamy for Dave D was the best on the way to a title transaction of my life. Also up there is when the Mets traded for Gary Carter.
KFICL, well wishes to you my friend! Godspeed
Oh boy..if the Cavs pull off this George Hill trade- and I think that would be a good move- how embarrassing is it gonna be for Derrick Rose?
Top pick..
Youngest MVP..
One year flier at vet minimum before age 30..
Waived unceremoniously by team that signed him to said flier deal..
Wow
Congrats top KP on being selected as a reserve. Probably some debate whether there were some snubs that should be ahead of him, but what’s new with All-Star selection?
I feel China or our Australian league have a spot for Rose. Josh Childress has forged a nice career down here so there is hope for Rose ha ha
Drummond was definitely snubbed.
I think there’s a pretty strong bias towards scorers for the All Star game.
KFICL, good luck for a speedy recovery
Congrats to KP!
And best of luck to KFICL for a fast recovery.
Trae Young has a weird Delonte West-type look.
as much as i love all the great basketball insight and the stats to back it up – this is really what i come here for…
i mean – you watch enough games – and, inevitably you just start noticing random and odd shit with the team and even the stuff going on during intermission/halftime…
no doubt, when i tune it tonight i’ll be looking to see just how much trae does resemble delonte…for trae’s sake – i hope not too much…
Definitely stiff, however I think since they changed from set positions to front and back court that really hurt centers being picked.