2017-18 Christmas Game Thread: Knicks vs. Sixers

It’s always fun when the Knicks actually have a meaningful game on Christmas!

Let’s go, Knicks!

Merry Christmas, everyone!

90 replies on “2017-18 Christmas Game Thread: Knicks vs. Sixers”

I don’t really celebrate Christmas, but I wish everyone here a very Merry Christmas. This is a time to enjoy- whether you celebrate it or not, despite all the madness of the world. Today is the best I’ve felt since my last surgery by far, so I’m definitely gonna enjoy today- win or lose.

Again- Happy Holidays everyone!

I like Kristaps’ shot selection a little better today. Not one of Jack’s better games.

great to hear your feeling better totes…

I hope every one’s day is going along smoothly…

Knicks looking a little shaky so far…

It wouldn’t be the craziest thing in the world to take a three at some point

Who knew the Knicks would have an elite-level center? But his name isn’t KP, it’s Kanter!

Having the worst group of PG’s in the NBA is a killer down the stretch of close games.

Here comes the patented move by Hornacek, “keep Jack in the game no matter what in the 4th until we lose”

All the Knicks starter are + today, and all the bench guys are -.

The Knicks 7 missed free throws may come back to haunt them.

I guess Christmas is the day we can officially forget about making the playoffs. Disheartening performance by the Knicks today. Bah humbug.

Time to start checking mock drafts and seeing who the Knicks will pick at #12. As you can tell I’m not in a jolly mood this Christmas lol.

Porzingis is so soft around the basket, twice today he got offensive rebounds and put up fade away putback layups that missed.

Beasley’s presence in this game late, along with the performances of LT and McD, shows how badly the Knicks need a good young three.

BTW, now 9 missed free throws. Ball game.

You know it’s getting bad when I’m hoping Trey Burke gets called up from the G-League so the Knicks can maybe have a competent PG down the stretch of close games.

LOL on Trey Burke. Is he the new Jimmer?

Hey, I’m all for bringing him up for a look, but he couldn’t beat out Jennings in the Washington rotation last year!

Beasley as a backup four to KP has some use. Beas as at the three, however = stealth tank.

Two disgraceful losses in a row, it’s getting pretty obvious that the January schedule will be a slaughterhouse.

This team should have tanked, but we’ll always have Porzingis’ amazing november games in our hearts!

At least Kanter is a monster and is keeping his value high.

KP needs to gain so much more muscle before he’s worth a max. And he needs to learn how to pass.

You give him the max because he’s our best horse to bet on but I’m pretty pessimistic

The Knicks have too many 3 point shooters for us to attempt 15 all day. That’s embarrassing.

Merry XMas to all 🙂

The Knicks totally ruined my day,
you can’t waste a game like Kanter’s,
Porzingis is wayyyy too soft , Jack is a nightmare, Frankie must learn how to shoot consistently,
we really miss THJ.

As a team, you can’t shoot less than 20 threes in 2018, you cann0t win playing 9o’s basketball.

McConnell destroyed us again (do you remember last year?), Reddick too…

Choking in Detroit, laying an egg today, season’s over, january’ll be a massacre.

By the way, I hate the 76ers and I think the officials were clowns.


We really need to tank just this one season. We need another guy because KP is not gonna be the best player on a championship team.

The 3 point attempts thing is something that must be addressed. I can’t believe Hornacek actually thinks this is ok. It’s got to be something else.

Porzingis took 19 shots today, 2 three pointers.

They really seem to be just tossing their hands in the air and saying, “Eh, it’s too hard to shoot more threes, so we just won’t.”

I agree. If the Knicks draft well, they might not have to tank beyond this season.

If they can somehow make a deal or two that nets them another #1 pick in the upcoming draft (easier said than done, though), they have a chance to have a nice stable of young players going forward. Have four picks and hope to hit on two of them. A good young big wing and a good young PG to pair with Frank.

Yeah, and we need to start seeing Willy soon. I’d guess that by the middle of next month he’s in the rotation to stay.

Porzingis has no business creating.

Wasn’t Hornacek the guy who used to calculate each players’ best ways to score?

We need more threes. We have Lee, KP, McDermott, Frank, Lance, etc. come on

McD and Lance really cannot create their own shots. We’ve all noted how the PG play likely hurts their ability to get open looks. This is exacerbated with Timmy out.

That’s just not likely to change; Jack is what he is, Frank is a baby, and Burke is probably a pipe dream (though I’m all for bringing him up next month and letting Jack go to see if he can hook up with a bench role for a contender).

You know, I get when a team like the Grizzlies won’t shoot threes, they simply don’t have shooters. The Knicks have them, and still refuse to feature them as part of the offense.

I’m starting to get really annoyed every time I see Porzingis getting the ball at the elbow with everyone clearing out.


Redick also can’t create great looks for himself, but what does Philly do? Have designated plays where he runs through 10 screens to get open. Then, any PG should be able to throw a pass to a dude coming off a curl. The Knicks have ran some of those plays, but not often enough (and the fact that our bigs can’t or won’t set screens adequately doesnt help).

True, but Redick is also better than them, esp. LT. McD probably is closer to Redick in capability, but he seems hesitant to shoot unless he is really wide open.

Our version of Redick is Timmy, and he’s out. Hilariously, late today Hornacek had Beas in at the three. As I said, that’s got to be stealth tanking! Beas passed up several open threes today.

The entire NBA has now figured out our simplistic offense. Time for Hornacek to draw up some new sets.

As I’ve said a thousand times, the day was going to come when we wish we didn’t win those few games, when we wish we didn’t have Lee, Lance, Beasley, and Jack. We’re going to lose a shit ton of games and still not be bad enough for a 7th pick. Useless. This is a goddam annual exercise in futility.

We steered ourselves right into NBA’s no man’s land, the dreaded 10th best team in the conference.

Coincidentally, just like we designed a team to end up in the worst place in the standings, we have an offense that’s designed to take the worst shots on the court.

Yeah, right now the Knicks have to super tank just to get into a top 10 pick. That’s why I hope they don’t have as awful a January as we all fear they’ll have and they manage to stay close to a playoff spot and give us some meaningful games in March and even April for once. But if TH Jr doesn’t return by next week and they don’t do something with the PG position this team will be out of the playoff race by the All-Star Game.

Well, we all know where the season goes from here. Time to pack it up and #Tank4Trae

Although the Knicks have already bested the 16-win prediction I made for it, my faith in Team Tank remains steadfast.

Its roster is still unbalanced and poorly constructed; its #1 scoring option has transitioned from Melo to a Charmin-soft Melo wannabe; Rambis is still on the coaching staff; and the team has increasingly turned its lonely eyes to Michael Fucking Beasley to bail it out when all else fails.

The ’17-’18 Knicks have not yet begun to suck. Things will look a lot clearer after the Grammy road trip. A bottom 5 record is still within reach.

Can we all at least agree that Lance Thomas should never start ever? There’s no reason at all to give him starter minutes when he can’t shoot, can’t pass and is not even a very good defender. He played 24 completely useless minutes today.

Just give his minutes to McDermott or play Lee at the 3 and Frank at the 2 and call Burke to play with Baker.

The weird part is Hornacek’s teams in Phoenix shot a decent amount of 3’s and he has often said publicly that he wants guys like Lee to shoot more 3’s. Missing TH hurts because he takes alot of 3’s himself but the main problem continues to be the lack of a PG who can create 3’s for guys and KP/Kanter not creating passes out of double teams leading to 3’s. It’s just a weird mix and balance on the roster right now.

Sure, the roster is a strange kind of mix, with PG clearly the weakest position,
but maybe trying a new starting five, throwing Frankie into the fire and MC playing the 3
could open up the floor a little more until THJ come back.

I’m not confident in Willy’s return,
him, KOQ, LT and maybe Lee are the chips we could use to get some picks.

By the way, the money spent on Baker (not talking about Noah) looms larger every day…

We are basically playing 3 on 5 on offense much of the time.

Lance Thomas should not be part of any NBA rotation. Having an impact on defense once a month is not enough when you do absolutely nothing else the rest of the time.

Jarret Jack looks good at times, but that’s only because we have the worst PG corp in the league. They may even be worse than some G league teams.

When you see what Porzingis is capable of on offense at times (like early in the season) and combine it with the impact he can have on the defensive end, it’s easy to get ridiculously excited about him. The problem is he can’t rebound, can’t make plays, is not a high efficiency scorer once you get past the first few weeks, is constantly hurt, and is too soft. Maybe in 2 years when he fills out, gets stronger, and actually learns how to play basketball he may become the kind of 2 way star we dream about. But right now he’s the most overrated player in the NBA and/or desperately needs Hardaway on the court to take some of the pressure off.

Maybe in 2 years when he fills out, gets stronger, and actually learns how to play basketball he may become the kind of 2 way star we dream about. But right now he’s the most overrated player in the NBA and/or desperately needs Hardaway on the court to take some of the pressure off.

I agree with this. I think he’s overrated enough that I would certainly consider trading him. Good rim protector, good range on his jump shot, but a low-IQ player on offense who is far too concerned with being “the man” and not concerned enough with playing team ball and getting quality shots. He has stunk out the joint pretty bad since his patented “Mr October” hot start. Since the first ten games of the season he has a .518 TS% and a .462 eFG% with a rollicking 11.2 TRB%. Woof.

This is year 3, he was supposed to be better by now, and he ain’t.

I haven’t been much of a fan of bringing up Trey Burke to take Jack’s minutes. I think it wouldn’t be much of a net positive (if any) and could be disruptive. But as long as Hardaway is out, we can’t play Jack with Lance Thomas. It’s hard enough to play 4 on 5, but 3 on 5 is impossible. If Hardaway will be back in a week, I wouldn’t make the change, but if he’s going to be out for a few more weeks, I’d give Burke a shot.

in 2 years when he fills out, gets stronger, and actually learns how to play basketball he may become the kind of 2 way star we dream about. But right now he’s the most overrated player in the NBA

Fills out: don’t care, more muscle isn’t always what’s in a tall guy’s best interests

Gets stronger: sure, but it sounds like he’s working on it

learns how to play basketball: hot take, not bothering with this.

most overrated star in the NBA: have you met Blake Griffin, DeMar DeRozan, Andrew Wiggins, Evan Turner, Reggie Jackson, or Carmelo Anthony?

KP needs someone to run some PNR/PNP plays for him to dive or shoot a 3. I DON’T SEE THAT. I don’t know why he tried to cross over Joel Embiid three times. Like I said yesterday, not sure if this is because Hornacek’s plays fail, aren’t good enough, the guards suck, or KP just don’t listen a la Melo. It may just be a little of each.

I agree with this. I think he’s overrated enough that I would certainly consider trading him.

I’m a patient guy. I’m trying to be especially patient with KP because we’ve seen glimpses of potential greatness. I don’t want to debate Phil again, but he may have been right to at least listen to offers. There’s huge upside potential with KP, but he still has a couple of clear cut downsides that include both injuries and never becoming more than a good (but not great) scorer than can defend (but weak in other areas). To be clear, becoming a good 2nd option that can also defend is nothing to sneeze at, but if you aren’t an honest to good franchise player and people think you are, it’s not insane to think about a trade in fantasy league terms. I think we have to give it another year or two because we’ll all be crying if he eventually becomes a superstar, but it’s not insane to wonder.

it looks weird at times, like the pelicans we’re just about the only teams playing outside in, while the rest of my the league is playing inside out…

wow, what an impressive game by kanter…

most overrated star in the NBA: have you met Blake Griffin, DeMar DeRozan, Andrew Wiggins, Evan Turner, Reggie Jackson, or Carmelo Anthony?

There are players in the league that are inferior and make a lot more, but the current view on Porzingis is that he’s a franchise superstar and one of the top few prospects in the league. Not long ago when KP was hot, Haralabos Voulgaris said he would start a franchise with KP over Giannis. If you asked him that question again I think you’d get a different answer.

not sure if this is because Hornacek’s plays fail, aren’t good enough, the guards suck, or KP just don’t listen a la Melo. It may just be a little of each.

I don’t know about not listening, seems like maybe he’s just learning new things on the fly. It’s probably a little of everything else though. THjr being out impacts what the guards can do, both impact the effectiveness of our plays to set up outside shots, the NBA having tape on our sets and KP negatively effect both of those and those both lead to dumber play by KP, ect. We adjusted early on after losing the first few and we need to adjust again.

I’m not concerned. This is a team in process. Everybody loses an occasional game that they shouldn’t. We’ll eventually figure out how to win on the road. We’ll eventually have a deep enough bag of tricks that we’re harder to shut down offensively. Or we’ll blow it all up in a few years and try again.

Kanter was a man today, very impressive line. He and KP compliment each other nicely, hopefully they can retain Kanter at a reasonable price.

They missed too many shots right at the rim. It kept happening all game long, very frustrating. That and the lack of defense did them in. KP needs to post up closer to the basket more to use his length and get higher percentage shots. He settles for long twos more than he should imo.

It may sound simplistic but all this team needs is a decent PG, it would make a world of difference especially once TH Jr is back. If you have NBA League Pass and watch a ton of games you’ll see how God awful the Knicks PG’s are compared to the rest of the NBA. Hell look at what McConnell did to them today.

That includes Frank and his 46% TS% with a TO% that is actually higher than his AST%. I love his defense and his penchant to take and make big 3pters down the stretch and by no means do I want him traded or benched, on the contrary I’m all for him playing even more minutes because at least he has potential and the experience will hopefully help him. But this team needs a decent PG to share the minutes with Frank for everybody on the roster’s sake.

guys… kp is good… he’s made a lot of strides in a number of areas that aren’t of the flukey variety… just the fact that he can keep up his usage at kobe levels is a sign that he is for real….

just because he isn’t that efficient yet doesn’t mean that he is destined to be mediocre.. in fact… it’s likely to mean very good things for him long term…

what he really needs is someone to give him more efficient opportunities… part of that is the scheme.. another part is his teammates and a large part will come from himself… whether or not those contested mid range shots go in more often or he starts avoiding them altogether…. all those things will come with time…

kp’s fine… there are way more pressing questions on this team than worrying about kp at this point….

My worry isn’t about KPs ability to score efficiently, though he’s clearly not there yet in that area. My issue is that the entirety of his value derives from scoring and rim protection. he has zero secondary skills—he can’t pass, he sets literally the worst screens I’ve ever seen (and as ptmilo mentioned mostly slips them, probably because he’s so terrible at screen setting), he doesnt box out, and he’s an anemic rebounder. That’s what worries me if and when we give him a designated player extension. All the other young bigs are far more well rounded, even if KP is better than most of them on the defensive end because of his elite rim protection..

I’ve also been hard on KP, but his current and future level of rim protection make him someone to hold onto. He doesn’t just change the game, he changes entire game plans. We don’t need him to be able to go one-on-one as much as just stay elite as a shot blocker and become elite as a three-point shooter.
Everyone is saying it, but yes, if we had a FAST pg that could target our shooters on the break (KP as trailer) and/or be a pick/pop threat, the team and KP would be SO much better. Clearly, there’s room for KP to improve his passing and rebounding, but if he can be an elite 3/D guy at the 4 or 5, then he’s worth the money.

The path of the future for the knicks does not include having the best player in the NBA. It consists of the best youngest players in the NBA.
Under age 27, KP is a top five guy going forward. Under 23, probably top three. His value is higher than anyone’s number 1 pick and he’s worth more than anyone you will get in return.

A+ for the way he’s stepped up considering what’s been asked of him. He’s only 22 years old!
He works his ass off on his game. He’s smart, improving, getting stronger, and stays out of trouble. Perfect? Only Lebron and KD are.

Tank and trade KP? That’s crazy talk.

scoring and rim protection are two of the most scarcest skills in the league… well maybe passing is somewhere in there but it’s at least two out of three…. when you get it from the same player it is pretty valuable on that basis alone….

the secondary skills will come… the rebounding is a concern… and a decently sized one at that.. but he’s rebounded better before in his rookie year and there’s some reason to think that he can get to that level of production again….

what’s important is that he’s added at least one valuable skill this year and that’s getting to the line consistently….. which means he can very easily tighten up his inside game to become a lot more efficient… i mean all it takes is him just not taking those dumb midrange shots anymore and you’re looking at a .200 ws48 player…

the key is him realizing that… which is part of becoming a superstar…. someone like melo didn’t…. and his game suffered for it… i don’t think kp will make that same mistake… .

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