Knicks Morning News (2017.08.15)

  • [NYDN] Knicks national TV appearances cut by 64 percent this season
    (Monday, August 14, 2017 8:57:12 PM)

    The national audience won’t get much exposure to the Knicks. And that’s probably a good thing.

  • [NY Newsday] See the Knicks’ entire 2017-18 schedule
    (Monday, August 14, 2017 7:56:00 PM)

    Here’s a look at the Knicks’ schedule for the 2017-18 NBA season. (All Times Eastern)

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks release 2017-18 schedule
    (Monday, August 14, 2017 6:10:36 PM)

    The New York Knicks released their official 2017-18 regular-season schedule on Monday, which includes their home opener on Oct. 21 against the Detroit Pistons and a West Coast trip in late January.

  • [SNY Knicks] Moe Harkless not concerned with involvement in Carmelo Anthony trade talks
    (Monday, August 14, 2017 10:30:27 AM)

  • [NYPost] Knicks get early gantlet, less national TV love in 2017-18
    (Monday, August 14, 2017 7:05:23 PM)

    The NBA released it’s schedule for the upcoming 2017-18 season Monday night — including the national TV schedule — and there’s far less of the Knicks on it than usual. The Knicks technically have 13 national dates, but just eight on ABC, ESPN and TNT. That’s down from 22 last season, now that they’re in…

  • [NYTimes] The Knick Who’s Barely 19: Ntilikina Is ‘Enjoying the Moment’
    (Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:02:42 AM)

    Frank Ntilikina, the 19-year-old from France, is girding for his first season in the N.B.A. Expectations — his own and those of die-hard fans — are high.

  • [NYTimes] Red Sox 3, Yankees 2 | 10 Innings: Aroldis Chapman’s Woes Doom Yankees to Series Loss Against Red Sox
    (Monday, August 14, 2017 6:05:33 AM)

    Boston scored on a home run off Chapman in the ninth inning to tie the game and pushed across the deciding run in the 10th after he hit one batter with a pitch and walked another.

  • 71 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.15)”

    The NY Times article about Ntilikina is very nice. He sounds like a good kid. He must be well known in France. He went to a Barcelona team practice and the French center back wanted a picture with him.

    Mark September first on your calendars, because team Latvia is going up against team Serbia in euro basket, which means KP and Jokic are going head to head at the center position. This should really help clarify just how far KP has come going up against a stronger center like Jokic.

    Frank seems to have the good personality thing down pat

    Nothing much new here in this Woj article about possible Kyrie trades. But the notable (and good) line for us is here:

    Porzingis has emerged as a primary Cleveland target, but that’s a conversation that can occur only with Cleveland’s willingness to unburden the Knicks of the three years and $55 million left on Joakim Noah’s contract. For now, the conversation is a nonstarter for the Knicks, league sources said.

    Nothing much new here in this Woj article about possible Kyrie trades. But the notable (and good) line for us is here:

    I don’t want to swap KP for Irving even to ditch Noah’s contract.

    As long as Kyrie’s on the market and NY is a possible destination, it’s going to hold up any deal for Melo. If nothing serious is going to happen with Kyrie until September, nothing is going to happen with Melo until after that (if at all).

    If the Knicks trade KP for Irving to dump Noah I’m done. Completely done.

    I’m taking heart from the line that says it’s a non-starter for the Knicks (at least for now). But god, the mere discussion makes me feel sick.

    Here’s my hot take. The Knicks are not going to trade KP. That ship sailed when Phil went out the door. KP clearly wanted Phil and the triangle bullshit gone, and that’s clearly why he skipped the exit meeting…to brashly declare, “It’s him or me.” in that if Phil stayed, he’d play out his obligations and leave as a UFA. So Dolan accommodated KP by promoting Mills on the condition that he address KP’s belief that the organization was dysfunctional “from top to bottom” from the insistence on the triangle to the way he was used to the way Melo was treated by Jackson in the media. Mills responded by (over)rewarding “young, character guys” Baker (who I bet KP loves) and Hardaway, then passing the reins to Perry, another high-character guy. Other than definitively saying that the team will focus on young, athletic, work-ethic players whether Melo is here or not, the FO has been very quiet about its intentions.

    So as much as Woj has cred, I think he’s making shit up right now. The Knicks have lost interest in Kyrie and will only trade Melo in a sweetheart deal. They are highly likely to go into training camp with the team they have right now. Which works for me.

    This is the part of the article that is a bit scary:

    For the right All-Star player, though — Irving or otherwise — multiple NBA teams are seriously questioning how emphatic of a “no” that will stay for New York. There continues to be distance between Porzingis and the organization, and how the Knicks truly value Porzingis’ future could become clearer once they’re together to begin the season.

    Hopefully just bs.

    The distance between the Knicks’ organization and KP is because KP said he would be taking a long vacation back home. There isn’t any infighting and even if the Knicks are on the clock with Kristaps Porzingis, that’s the nature of today’s league. It’s a players’ market and they are deciding more and more that it is in their best interest to leave incompetent front offices and owners. Even Giannis said that a player may want to stay in a city and be loyal to an organization, but it is up to the organization to prove they are worthy of that loyalty. KP won’t be traded, and I’m certain Kyrie wants to be in New York so he could play with KP. It won’t happen. KP is under team control for at least the next three seasons. Last I checked, 3 seasons under team control is longer than two seasons.

    Mark September first on your calendars, because team Latvia is going up against team Serbia in euro basket, which means KP and Jokic are going head to head

    I thought Jokic said he wasn’t participating this summer to rest up for the NBA season. Did he change his mind?

    Oh, I agree that the Knicks FO is going to take a good, hard look at KP and try to determine early on if he’s a franchise player or not. He is now 22 years old and if he doesn’t make a significant step forward right off the bat this year, I think they will listen to offers, e.g. if the Celts offer the Nets and Philly picks in this year’s draft and a player or two, it would be hard to resist. If he starts playing like AD, then he’ll be untouchable.

    I hope they also evaluate Ntilikina in actual games before they think about trading for a point guard like Irving.

    Can we really do the team previews this year? I don’t see how the Knicks aren’t a playoff team, possibly a 4-5 seed.

    The Knicks are a 7 seed at best. I don’t think we’re better than Cleveland, Boston, Milwaukee, Toronto, Washington, or Charlotte. Everything after that is a dogfight, and I’d lock Detroit into that #7 seed. If KP and Willy are who I think they are, then we’re probably better than Milwaukee and Detroit. So there’s #5 seed potential, and that’s with a lot of caveats, like our point guards don’t submarine us, Melo (or his replacement) plays good ball, TH2 takes another step forward, and KP turns into a savage.

    I for one actually could see the strategy of assembling a bunch of shooting guards, a bunch of centers, and Carmelo Anthony failing, but I also didn’t think the Knicks would win 55 games last season so what do I know?

    @9

    I agree. This is just woj saying what Clevelands asking price is but there’s no actual phone call made

    Also I’ll be personally watching every Slovenia game–Luka Doncic is the starting SG–in the quixotic hope that he’s in a Knicks uniform next year

    @15 I think he has to make a giant 7’3″ step this year to be untouchable. He has to show that any trade is unlikely to yield a better player than him going forward 4-5 years.

    Now what does that mean? Well to me, his WS48 needs to be closer to .200 than .100. His TS% has to be closer to .600 than .550. His 3pt% has to be closer to .400 than .350. He should be averaging 3+ blocks/36 and 10+ Rebs/36, over 6 FTAs/36 and under 4 fouls/36.

    If he can’t meet those goals in year 3, I’d start to worry about whether he tops out as a fringe all-star.

    KP will average 10 rebounds/36 in his best seasons. He’ll probably hover around 8-9/36, which is exactly why he is not a center despite his height.

    Tbf if he has a TS of .600, high usage, 3 blocks and over ten rebounds that’s more than just a .200 WS player–that’s a bonafide MVP candidate

    The Knicks will only make the playoffs if KP makes the leap, Melo stays and plays well and the PG issue is resolved by either Baker or Frank playing well. My early guess is that they are slightly better than last year…35-40 wins, and just miss.

    You guys are looking at KP’s numbers without taking into account how rare it was for KP to be used as a dive man. KP got most of his points off jumpers. Only 20.7% of his shot attempts came within 3 feet of the basket. Contrast that with DeAndre Jordan, the NBA’s all-time leader in FG% and eFG%, who takes 87.7 percent of his shots within 3 feet of the basket. KP is a 70% converter from that range, yet it was only one fifth of his shot distribution because triangle. This is the reason Phil Jackson had to be fired. Put KP in a P&R more often and he’s a .600 TS% guy. That’s as clear as day to anybody who’s paying attention.

    Well, there it is! KP is guaranteed to be a .600 TS% guy, so no need to debate it further!

    KP’s offense should come as a roll man, a fast break trailer, an offensive board crasher, and then as an isolation scorer. All of that dumb “hey let’s make KP come off pin downs from 16 feet” garbage the Knicks were running these past years needs to go. He’s not Rip Hamilton.

    What do you think KP’s scoring splits would look like if he played for Darryl Morey’s Rockets? Or is there not a strawman you can build to answer this question?

    They’re playing the 1992 Eastern Conference semifinal on msg right now. I wish we beat the Bulls just once when Jordan was on the team. It would have made every one of those seasons of disappointment worth it.

    Yeah I didn’t see much improvement in the east besides Boston. I think the Knicks have actually improved the second most. Frank, Timmy and Dodson could be significant, Noah playing 65+ games could be huge, KP and Willy Improvement …

    I’m just a bit skeptical that KP’s issues are solely due to shot selection and system. Not too many guys can pull off a .600 TS% on high usage. I am responding to you saying: “Put KP in a P&R more often and he’s a .600 TS% guy. That’s as clear as day to anybody who’s paying attention.”, not a strawman.

    But the potential is there, that’s beyond dispute.

    I do agree that KP was being used in just about the least efficient possible way last year. “Hey ‘Staps, go stand out there on the perimeter, then if somebody happens to pass the ball to you, try to create your own offense out there!”

    He’s looking rather fluid and deadly as a roll man in the footage I’ve seen of him this offseason. Granted that is against crummy competition but he has the size, agility and skills to dominate as a roll man. Even more so because he can also beat you with the outside shot.

    If KP shot 70% at the rim but only got there 20% of the time as a function of the triangle offense, why wouldn’t his TS% skyrocket in a pick and roll offense? Most P&R bigs get over half of their opportunities at the rim and that helps them have high TS and eFG percentages. Of course those are lower usage guys, but even higher usage front court players like KAT and AD took at least 80% of their shots from 2 point range and more than 50% of their shots from 10 feet down. 31% of KP’s attempts came from 3 and 36% of his attempts came from 10 feet down. That is bad shot distribution for a 7’3″ guy, and he still managed to increase his TS% 28 points from .518 to .546, and to post an eFG% above .500. He was about a league average scorer while having a terrible shot distribution. Once you take into account both that he is likely to improve due to his age and have a better shot distribution due to his coach’s offensive gameplan, it doesn’t take much of a leap of faith to see that his chances of becoming an elite scorer are pretty good.

    @33

    Philly is adding Fultz, Reddick, and Simmons. Some crazy people might say that Fultz >Frank, Reddick > Hardaway, and Simmons > Dotson. But what do they know.

    Philly has health issues and it would be a miracle if Joel Embiid could play 50 games. He’s the new Derrick Rose. That said, they have a great shot to make the playoffs if Brett Brown can coach them up.

    KP is one of the worst screeners in the league and hasn’t shown the ability to play through contact so any little bump even by a guard really slows him down- he’s a long, long way from becoming DeAndre Jordon as a roll man.

    How can you be so sure that KP is one of the worst screeners in the league, and how can you be so certain that it keeps him from being effective when Amar’e “Slip Screen” Stoudemire was dominating the league without setting hard screens?

    I don’t think we would be a 3 seed in Ice Cube’s tourny. I think Abdul-Rauf would burn us. At least Oak wouldn’t be allowed in the building to see it.

    KP is athletic for a 7’3″ player but Amar’e was an absolute freak in terms of quickness for a big man- Kp’s not remotely close to Amar’e in that regard. The issue is that when KP does set a screen that actually slows the opposing guard down it generally knocks him enough off-balance that he can’t roll effectively. He doesn’t have the greatest hands either. Hopefully he’ll get better as he gets stronger/puts on weight but he’s got a long way to go before he can become an elite roll man

    KP is a 70% converter from that range, yet it was only one fifth of his shot distribution because triangle. This is the reason Phil Jackson had to be fired.

    Blaming the Triangle for this shows a lack of knowledge about the system this team ran for 3 seasons as you can run pick and rolls out of Triangle sets if the personnel is willing to. But the problem was that a.) Derrick Rose was not a very good pick and roll guard b.) KP was not a great screener and c.) he was often our stretch 4, not our dive man for spacing reasons. Now, assuming that even if issues a and b are rectified next season, the question has to be asked about how our offense will spatially function with KP playing the dive man. Will Willy be the stretch big? Can he even do that?

    You’re making things seem simpler than they are, as if a simple switch in scheme is the trick that will unlock this great offensive potential waiting to happen.

    KP does need to improve his shot selection, but I do believe a part of it, at least, is being forced to sit in the corner while Rose and Melo did their thing. With Jokic, Denver has tailored their playstyle to cater to his incredible talents and he has more than stepped up as a facilitator and scorer. The Knicks need to do the same for KP, and see if he also steps up. That will be his “superstar” test, to see how well he plays in an environment that is set up for his success.

    If he can’t crack a .580 ts% on good volume in such an environment then yes, it really becomes cause for concern.

    I think its been proven that there’s no way an NBA team will win regularly if their main star is inefficient unless that guy has an incredible supporting cast, and the Knicks have an ok supporting cast at most. If KP can’t do it, the franchise got to find a way to get a guy who can do it, trading him or not.

    The Knicks weren’t even playing straight Triangle much of the year, but he still wasn’t being used optimally. His shot distribution was not very good, and he still managed a .546 TS%. Give him a little bump because he’s a year older and more physically developed, and another bump because he’s improving his shot distribution, and it’s not that far-fetched to think he’ll manage something like .575 or so. If he stalls around .550 again that is a bit of a cause for concern.

    There is no lack of understanding about the offense. Watch how KP got a majority of his points, look at the stats. The triangle offense failed Kristaps Porzingis and Chief Triangle himself decided to bring in Derrick Rose. So it’s either you know something about the triangle Phil Jackson didn’t, or it just cannot function as a full time offense.

    It definitely is as simple as get KP more opportunities as a P&R dive man. He may not have been ready in terms of his body mass or ability to set screens, which makes it a two-way street. KP needs to be a stronger player and the Knicks need to put him in more P&R sets. I do find the point about needing a stretch big to miss the point. Utah’s P&R attack back in the 90s didn’t need a stretch big. Blake Griffin isn’t really a stretch big but CP and DJ had no problem winning 50+ games a year. Of course it would help to have somebody shoot 3s, but it’s not necessary to be a functioning offense. Having KP as the stretch big lead is to 18th in the league offensively and a tragic misuse of a great talent. We need to get KP more shots around the basket.

    There is no lack of understanding about the offense. Watch how KP got a majority of his points, look at the stats. The triangle offense failed Kristaps Porzingis and Chief Triangle himself decided to bring in Derrick Rose. So it’s either you know something about the triangle Phil Jackson didn’t, or it just cannot function as a full time offense.

    Its almost as if you ignored my point, repeated yourself and then presented counter-evidence which didn’t address a damn thing I wrote.

    For one thing, the stats you presented do not say the Triangle offense denied KP the opportunity to score more points as the dive man in pick and roll plays. They simply say he didn’t. Why he didn’t is another matter, attributable to a variety of factors which I already outlined and you conveniently ignored.

    For another thing, Phil Jackson trading for Derrick Rose says zero about with how the offensive system KP played in intrinsically denied him more pick and roll opportunities. The former is a personnel choice while the latter is a scheme issue. Why you conflate the two is beyond me. Charlie Rosen made it clear Phil was disappointed with the way Rose ran the offensive system after trading for him, so extrapolating some kind of conclusion about the function of the Triangle Offense from this personnel move is a real non sequitur.

    I do find the point about needing a stretch big to miss the point. Utah’s P&R attack back in the 90s didn’t need a stretch big.

    Today’s NBA is all about offensive spacing using stretch bigs, comparing it the 1990s game when bigs were expected to clog lanes is kind of like comparing today’s NFL game to the 1990s game when three WR sets weren’t as necessary.

    We need to get KP more shots around the basket.

    +1000

    Watching him operate in a one on one situation on the perimeter was truly difficult. It’s like he was trying to be like Melo. KP!! Don’t be like Melo!!!

    I do think the triangle is a good offense but a D-league team can’t run it successfully in the NBA. Or, I should say, a D-League team with two “me first” chuckers.

    So, the goal is, as folks have said, make that ball sing and create good shots. Install a quality offense with players buying in. We’ve increased our talent level a good bit. Look at GSW. Yes, they have otherworldly talent but they also play an unselfish style that is a joy to watch. Mills and Craig Robinson played at Princeton. Coach H was at UTA for years under Sloan. It takes time but it’s not a mystery. KP will kill in a functional situation. Let’s make that situation NYK as opposed to BOS or CLE!

    The saddest thing is that D’Antoni’s system might be exactly what could unlock KP’s full potential.

    In reality now, all Hornacek needs to do is to get THJ, Sessions, Ntilikina and Baker and tell them that there’s no more “getting the ball to Melo at the elbow” and the offense is about passing and pick and roll. Park Melo at the corner and the wing and let him take 3s while the main action on the court will be focused on endless pick and rolls with KP and Willy. That’s all the Knicks need to be entertaining to watch, no need for super intricate plays or anything, just use your weapons properly.

    plus when KP hangs outside he can’t hit the O boards. Remember those crazy putbacks were one of the reasons we fell in love with him in the first place

    @51

    People are throwing shit and seeing what sticks, it’s ridiculous. Just invent whatever rumour and say the losing team is apparently not interested. I’m sure Cleveland would trade Kyrie for Giannis or Harden too, but the Bucks and Rockets apparently are not interested!

    If it did happen tho, it would be the last straw for me, 100%.

    This thread is amazingly optimistic, but also unreasobably so. It’s true KP will probably get better, but playing at an all star level is a big stretch. But we will probably lose Melo; and, like him or not, he did help the offense. Our defense, not our offense, was the problem last year. Our offense was roughly league average last year. I expect it to be league average or a little worse next year. Our defense was close to last in the league. If Ntilikina plays substantial minutes and Noah is healthy enough to contribute, it could go up a bit. If the defense hits league average (a big stretch for us), then we should have close to a league average record and be contending for a playoff spot. So playoffs are unlikely.

    I think:
    23 pts 8 rebs 2 asts 2 blks 1 stl 58% TS% is what KP needs to average next year and I think that is a quite resonable expectation. That would represent a step forward for him and place him squarely at all-star level with room to grow more.

    It isn’t huge increases over his averages last year and is very possible with him taking a bigger role on offense. If his scoring doesn’t increase or his TS% doesn’t improve we need to start to worry.

    If that happens and Willy simply replicates his last year with lower TOs and starter minutes and THJ is as good as he was last year in Atlanta we shouldn’t miss Carmelo’s scoring.

    @54
    So, Melo helped us be a middle of the pack offense?

    And a horrible defense?

    That doesn’t net out to positive.

    So, since KP isn’t going to be an all star, I suppose you’d trade him for Kyrie?

    I say, just because nothing’s worked out for 15 years doesn’t mean nothing ever will. KP’s upside is clearly there, especially judging from the trade market. What we need to do is stop looking at Melo as a savior and do a good job of developing a team concept.

    “I say, just because nothing’s worked out for 15 years doesn’t mean nothing ever will.”

    It also doesn’t mean it will work out.

    What people like KnickfaninNJ are pointing out is that a lot has to go well before KP is a star and before this team is good. I believe KP has to show improvement and I’m pretty confident he will, but to expect a substantial leap to happen for sure is a stretch, yes.

    I expect this team to win no more than 36 games and there has been no indications so far they’ll be able to eclipse that mark. Moving away from Melo is probably the beginning of that, in my opinion.

    Danvt,

    You are putting words into my mouth. I didn’t say that KP would never be an all-star, I just said that he could easily not be one next year. He will still be a good player and one who is still improving and could easily be an all star in the future. I have no idea why you think I would want to trade KP for Kyrie. I don’t want to do that at all. I stated I want better defense and you think that means trade a good young player who is good at defense and offense, for a less young player who probably won’t play any defense at all? What are you smoking that makes you think I want that?

    Yes, Melo contributed to our offense but was lousy on defense. I didn’t say he contributed on defense or that he was a net positive. But I do think that having only one scorer (Melo) who is indifferent on defense is more manageable than having two (Rose and Melo). If you think the Knicks are going to be contending for number 5 in the East, where is our defense going to come from to do that?

    But we will probably lose Melo; and, like him or not, he did help the offense. Our defense, not our offense, was the problem last year.

    Melo, for whatever combination of reasons, was almost certainly a net negative last year. In fine Knicks tradition we still have no capable replacement, but if we could get someone like Harkless (who is nothing special) we wouldn’t be worse off, and might be a bit better.

    Knick’s management probably considers Melo’s replacement to be Hardaway. I am not sure this will work out, but I do think that Hardaway, KP and and WHG can give us a capable offense, especially if the other two players on the floor with them can hit shots when open. But for this to happen and for the Knicks to be decent, that means that Sessions, Ntilikina or Baker have to both defend capably and hit threes when call upon, and it means that the other forward (Thomas or Beasley?) also has to defend and hit shots.

    Without Rose on the team, I am really not sure Melo is a net negative for us. He is still a league average or better forward per his stats. But I do want to trade him. I think he gets in the way of the style the Knicks want to play and doesn’t allow us to develop as a team for the future. Maybe we will get somebody competent back in a trade for Melo, but I think we are more likely to get picks or maybe expiring contracts. That won’t help us this year.

    I wonder why we haven’t heard much about Manimal possibly being expendable with Milsap, Lyles, and Hernangomez in tow. I’d love to see him on the Knicks this season.

    Well, the one thing I can say about being a Knick fan in the Dolan era is that it prepared me for the disappointment of being an American in the Trump era.

    Well, the one thing I can say about being a Knick fan in the Dolan era is that it prepared me for the disappointment of being an American in the Trump era

    Word!!
    + (whatever the total number of losses the Knicks had in the Zen era is)

    I wonder why we haven’t heard much about Manimal possibly being expendable with Milsap, Lyles, and Hernangomez in tow. I’d love to see him on the Knicks this season.

    Depends on what it takes. We already have KP, Noah, O’quinn, probably Beasley, and our own Hernangomez in the front court.

    Well, the one thing I can say about being a Knick fan in the Dolan era is that it prepared me for the disappointment of being an American in the Trump era.

    It says a lot that I came here to cheer up after today.

    Trump doesn’t bother me at all. I’m disappointed in America because we fall for the bs that we’re fed. If everyone just remembered to help each other instead of trying to keep everyone down we’d be much better off. This antifa alt right crap is such a minority of the regular people. Regular people like us need to tell all of them to go away and help each other to be better. That would solve a lot of problems in and of itself.

    *Edit* For the record I voted for Gary Johnson.*

    Comments are closed.