Knicks Morning News (2017.02.09)

  • [ESPN] Thursday’s Knicks News: An embarrassing night for the Knicks
    (Thursday, February 09, 2017 5:05:08 AM)

    Thursday’s Knicks News: An embarrassing night for the Knicks

  • [ESPN] New York Knicks’ circus keeps finding new ways to amaze
    (Thursday, February 09, 2017 2:25:55 AM)

    New York Knicks’ circus keeps finding new ways to amaze

  • [NYDN] SEE IT: Charles Oakley arrested after fighting in stands at MSG
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 9:52:15 PM)

    The Knicks’ problems are now stretching to retired players.

  • [NYDN] Charles Oakley’s Knicks years
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 9:37:04 PM)

    A look at Charles Oakley during his time with the New York Knicks.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony downplays Phil Jackson’s latest slight
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 9:05:01 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony again took the high road in his feud with Phil Jackson.

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ treatment of Charles Oakley is an embarrassment
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 8:39:47 PM)

    It was a couple of minutes before midnight when Charles Oakley, once upon a time the muscle of the Knicks, walked out of Midtown South

  • [NYDN] Spike Lee on Phil Jackson: I’ll pack his bags
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 8:26:42 PM)

    Spike Lee isn’t pulling any punches on who he’d rather see stick around New York.

  • [NYDN] Doc Rivers: Watching Oakley incident was ‘tough’
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 7:43:42 PM)

    Rivers thought about it for a second, but then decided against it.

  • [NYDN] LeBron James posts pic of Charles Oakley after fiasco at Garden
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 7:16:26 PM)

    Count LeBron James in as having Charles Oakley’s back.

  • [NYDN] Knicks fans, players weigh in on Charles Oakley incident
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:11:38 PM)

    Fans stood in shock as they watched a horde of security guards escort former Knicks great Charles Oakley off the court.

  • [NYDN] Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim says Carmelo should leave Knicks
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:01:32 PM)

    Jim Boeheim explained why the Cavs are a better fit than the Clippers for Carmelo Anthony in terms of winning a title

  • [NYDN] Wife of Knicks superfan fights to be guardian of ailing hubby
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 2:46:19 PM)

    The wife of a Knicks superfan is fighting to become his legal guardian because, she says, he is not receiving proper medical care.

  • [NYDN] Austin Rivers considered Knicks, details their offseason pitch
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 9:02:07 AM)

    Jeff Hornacek and Phil Jackson apparently had grand plans for Austin Rivers this past offseason.

  • [NYDN] Michael Graham has a message for Knicks boss Phil Jackson
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 7:47:46 AM)

    He was part of a throw away tweet, in which Phil Jackson was trying to convey another message to Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NY Newsday] Charles Oakley arrested after altercation at Madison Square Garden
    (Thursday, February 09, 2017 12:44:53 AM)

    Knicks fan favorite Charles Oakley got into a physical altercation with Madison Square Garden security, shoving at least three — one forcefully — and was later arrested, according to the Knicks, after being escorted out by a throng of men in the first quarter of last night’s game against the Clippers.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks put up tough fight, but fall to Clippers
    (Thursday, February 09, 2017 12:16:43 AM)

    The current Knicks showed some fight Wednesday night at the Garden, too. But it wasn’t enough.

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony ‘done asking why’ Phil Jackson criticizes him
    (Thursday, February 09, 2017 12:16:17 AM)

    After another disheartening loss in another disheartening season, Carmelo Anthony stood in front of his locker Wednesday night and answered questions about another odd and seemingly negative statement about him courtesy of Knicks team president Phil Jackson.

  • [NY Newsday] Mike Breen on Charles Oakley incident: ‘It’s just painful’
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 9:10:00 PM)

    Mike Breen, the Knicks’ longtime lead play-by-play man, was working Wednesday night’s game against the Los Angeles Clippers for ESPN when Charles Oakley was ejected from Madison Square Garden, and reacted emotionally.

  • [NYPost] One Knicks superfan has had enough of Phil Jackson
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 8:53:48 PM)

    Spike Lee has seen enough of Phil Jackson, and that was before Charles Oakley was ejected from the Garden during Wednesday’s game against the Clippers. “I’ll pack Phil’s bag for him,” Lee, a mega Knicks fan, said to ESPN’s Steve Zeng. It seems Lee had taken offense to Jackson’s antics aimed at star forward Carmelo…

  • [NYPost] Anthony-Jackson feud: Carmelo feels like Knicks are ‘his team’
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 7:56:07 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony has told confidants he may decide to wait out the old Zen Master, according to a source. As the feud between star player and star president escalated Tuesday, Anthony was telling friends he may stand firm on his no-trade clause at the Feb. 23 trade deadline and see what 71-year-old Phil Jackson decides…

  • [NYPost] LeBron James weighs in on Charles Oakley mess
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 7:29:14 PM)

    LeBron James and the Cavaliers were in Indiana on Wednesday night, but Charles Oakley’s plight at the Garden wasn’t far from the King’s mind. Shortly after the Cavaliers defeated the Pacers, James went to Instagram and posted a picture of Oakley in his customary road Knicks’ uniform along with the caption, “Mood!! #Legend.” James’ post…

  • [NYPost] Charles Oakley meltdown latest sad scene for sad-sack Knicks
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 7:01:56 PM)

    The curious were craning their necks at Madison Square Garden, hoping for a better view of the commotion three floors below. There, on the fifth floor, maybe five seats behind the Eighth Avenue baseline, a large man was shoving a smaller man. That much was easy to see, even before the cell phones started snapping….

  • [NYPost] Why James Dolan will let this Carmelo and Phil fight play out
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 6:14:44 PM)

    Knicks owner James Dolan has no plans of butting into the Phil Jackson-Carmelo Anthony feud. Before being a central figure in Wednesday night’s Garden ejection and subsequent arrest of ex-Knick Charles Oakley, Dolan had stayed behind the scenes, remained out of the limelight, content to let Phil be Phil. Maybe Dolan didn’t know everything he…

  • [NYPost] Knicks end night of Oakley chaos in fittingly crushing fashion
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:51:18 PM)

    The player the Knicks prefer not to add to their roster in any Carmelo Anthony-to-the-Clippers trade proved to be the Garden hero Wednesday. All the good of the Garden night came crashing down in the final 1:30 when the defensively challenged Knicks frittered another one away with the ex-Knick Jamal Crawford hitting the big shots…

  • [NYPost] Security drags Charles Oakley out of Knicks game in unreal scene
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 3:45:37 PM)

    The current Knicks should show such fight. Charles Oakley, the bruising forward who more than anyone displayed the grit and physical play of Pat Riley’s ’90s Knicks, was arrested and taken out of Madison Square Garden during Wednesday’s game against the Clippers following an altercation with security guards. The incident occurred in the pricey seats…

  • [NYPost] Phil Jackson’s attacks are convincing Carmelo to stay
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 11:28:38 AM)

    The more Phil Jackson pushes, the firmer Carmelo Anthony plants his foot. The Knicks president’s passive-aggressive attack on the franchise’s best player is backfiring, according to a Yahoo Sports report, which quotes league sources saying Anthony’s determination to remain with the Knicks is hardening. “[Jackson’s] underestimating Melo’s willingness to stay,” a source familiar with Anthony’s thinking…

  • [NYPost] Where Jim Boeheim would like Carmelo Anthony to end up
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 10:49:46 AM)

    Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim said Carmelo Anthony shouldn’t waive his no-trade clause for just any team, but the Clippers and Cavaliers “would be ideal” for his former pupil. The Knicks have approached the Clippers, Cavaliers and Celtics about a potential trade before the Feb. 23 deadline. “I think it depends on what team,” Boeheim said…

  • [NYPost] Austin Rivers intrigued by Knicks with Carmelo trade hovering
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 8:39:11 AM)

    While Doc Rivers indicated trade talks involving Carmelo Anthony are quiet between the Clippers and Knicks, his son Austin Rivers admitted the Knicks were a top-three choice in free agency, calling New York “a huge option.’’ The Knicks and Clippers have staged cursory trade talks, and the Knicks would need a combo guard — such as…

  • [NYTimes] Charles Oakley Is Arrested After Altercation at Knicks Loss
    (Thursday, February 09, 2017 5:07:01 AM)

    Oakley, a former Knicks player who has been estranged from the organizations for years, was ejected from Madison Square Garden after a commotion in the stands as the Clippers beat the Knicks.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Chaos Greets Doc Rivers in His Return to the Garden
    (Thursday, February 09, 2017 2:48:41 AM)

    Like Phil Jackson and the Knicks, Doc Rivers is at a crossroads with the Clippers. But the troubles of the Clippers are mostly confined to the court.

  • [NYTimes] Stephen Curry Takes Issue With Under Armour Leader on Trump
    (Thursday, February 09, 2017 4:01:50 AM)

    Curry, one of the company’s highest-paid endorsers, responded a day after Kevin Plank described the president as “a real asset” to the country.

  • [NYTimes] Lonzo Ball’s Brother Scores 92 in High School Game
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 3:11:52 PM)

    LaMelo Ball, the younger brother of U.C.L.A.’s star freshman Lonzo Ball, made 37 of 61 shots from the floor.

  • [NYTimes] Kevin Durant Is Gone. Durant, Okla., Is Sad.
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 2:33:09 PM)

    The grief over Durant’s departure as a free agent to join the Warriors is palpable in Durant, a quiet community about 150 miles southeast of Oklahoma City.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks fall in close battle with Clippers
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 11:08:40 PM)

    The Knicks lost to the Clippers at Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Charles Oakley ejected, arrested after altercation at MSG
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 9:03:22 PM)

    Former Knicks forward Charles Oakley, who was attending Wednesday night’s game against the Clippers, was ejected and then later arrested after getting into an altercation in the stands on the court level.

  • [SNY Knicks] Hornacek: Hectic nature of Knicks has ‘lived up to billing’
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 7:01:14 PM)

    When asked on Wednesday about the seemingly dysfunctional nature of the Knicks franchise, head coach Jeff Hornacek said the craziness is something he expected coming into the year.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks vs. Clippers
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 6:08:41 PM)

    The Knicks host the Clippers on Wednesday night at 8 p.m.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Jackson’s actions strengthening Melo’s desire to stay with Knicks
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:09:03 PM)

    Knicks president Phil Jackson’s public actions are strengthening Carmelo Anthony’s resolve to remain with the team.

  • [SNY Knicks] Timeout with Taylor Rooks: Wilson Chandler on Tats, TV, and Melo
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 12:00:51 PM)

    SNY’s Taylor Rooks sits down with Denver Nuggets forward Wilson Chandler to discuss his wide array of tattoos, TV, cooking, the challenges black women face in today’s society, and Carmelo Anthony.

  • [SNY Knicks] Rivers could be centerpiece in Melo deal with Clippers
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 12:45:32 PM)

    Clippers point guard Austin Rivers could be the centerpiece of a deal involving Carmelo Anthony going to Los Angeles.

  • [SNY Knicks] Jackson and Hornacek discuss Knicks’ struggles Tuesday
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 10:55:28 AM)

    Phil Jackson and Jeff Hornacek sat down after practice on Tuesday and discussed the Knicks’ struggles.

  • [SNY Knicks] LeBron says report that he’s pushing Anthony-Love deal is “trash”
    (Wednesday, February 08, 2017 8:45:41 AM)

    Cavaliers F LeBron James said a report that he’s pushing for a trade that would bring Kevin Love to the Knicks in exchange for Carmelo Anthony is “trash.”

  • 228 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.02.09)”

    Whatever anyone thinks of the Phil/Melo drama, I think we can all agree that no one should care what Spike Lee thinks about the situation.

    There’s an article published in the Chicago Sun Times about Carmelo Anthony and how Jimmy Butler wants to recruit him. The article suggests they trade us Rondo, Gibson, and their 1st round pick. I think we could squeeze Chicago for the Kings’ pick, too, if Melo would actually take a trade to the Bulls.

    I hate Rondo but I would do that trade even without the Kings pick.

    We need to move on from all this crap.

    Melo ain’t leaving before Phil. He even made a comment about trusting the process.

    They can leave together. It’s best for everybody involved as long as we get to keep Clarence Gaines Jr.

    Melo to the Bulls would be the most awkward fit ever, he would have to play PF for extended periods with only Lopez defending the paint… but hey, I’m all for it if it brings a pick and takes him away.

    the Woj report got me really scared, I gotta say, if he’s spiteful enough to continue fucking this franchise.

    the Woj report got me really scared, I gotta say, if he’s spiteful enough to continue fucking this franchise.

    He is. So it’s war and I’m glad PJ is fighting it. Unless Dolan interferes Melo would break because his brand is probably getting hit worse than Ivanka’s these days.

    the “brand” is honestly my hope… I think this might just be something the Melo camp is selling to make sure everyone realizes “”””he doesn’t want to leave and is not a quitter”””” and that Phil’s forcing him out, to make sure his brand isn’t too hurt from the whole ordeal.

    friday’s game against Denver will be pivotal.

    A viral video that shows him missing shots, blowing assignments on defence, laughing during losses and fawning to Dolan may seal the deal.

    The disgraceful treatment of Charles Oakley by MSG last night is the only Knicks news worth discussing right now. There is absolutely nothing imaginable that Oakley could have said that warrants that type of treatment. If someone on this site can please set up a gofundme webpage to create a legal defense fund for Oak I’ve got the first $100 donation (100pct I promise will donate).

    yeah, the Oakley episode was a stark reminder that we can discuss everything we want about the draft, Melo, Phil, Rose whoever, but the franchise is rotten at its very core.

    and MSG is even trying to spin it to say “we wish Oakley gets some help”, like wtf, fuck you.

    I saw part of Oakley’s incident and I didn’t really care for him striking numerous MSG workers who were just doing their jobs. I can’t condone that conduct.

    Agreed. Everyone is looking at Oakley with Rose tinted glasses. He clearly instigated the physical aspect of the altercation by putting his hands on a security guard just doing his job. He’s not some hero just because he happened to play some games for the Knicks in the past.

    Just yesterday, there were clips of LJ giving an award to a military officer, as well as one of the “bomb squad” being honered. Clearly, Dolan has no problem giving respect to former Knicks. So there’s definitely more to the story between what’s happened between oak and Dolan. Just lol at people blaming Dolan just because of their own biases.

    but why was he being escorted out in the first place?

    his account is that he said nothing, they just asked him why he was there, and then asked him to leave.

    We can’t condone Oak’s behavior for sure. That said, come on, the man is a Knicks legend and you won’t even talk to him? Sad.

    It is really painful watching the franchise sink to depths I have not seen in the 50+ years I have been a fan ( it’s perverse that former baseline uber fan Fred Klein, a former partner in the now defunct Carnegie Deli, and an ultra cool dude seems to be suffering his own parallel hell to that of his beloved Knicks). New York used to be the center of the basketball universe and the Garden was a legit mecca because of that. The Oakley incident, the PJ/Melo public conflict are byproducts of Dolan fiddling while the franchise burns ( he fiddles because the value of the franchise seems unaffected by the dysfunctional narrative). The franchise begs for an NBA intervention, something that the NFL did with football Giants owners getting them to hire George Young. As a vibrant NY franchise is not essential to the efficacy of the NBA brand, it will not happen.

    I honestly love the PJ/Melo feud. I don’t care for this season, and I love the drama. This season is a big effing “meh” all around, with a big plus in fat, career-backup Willy and a minus in the worryingly Bargish development of KP.

    I don’t know what had previously transpired between the two of them but striking those innocent workers was just plain wrong. I therefore won’t be contributing to a crowdfund effort. Is it possible that Oakley really needs some help?

    It would be nice if Theo would actually try to do something constructive and bring Willy with him to his next Weight Watchers meeting.

    I still don’t understand what happened with Oak. He says they just threw him out for no reason.

    Melo really wants to stay with the Knicks. No matter how dysfunctional this team is. For a fan isn’t it positive? Does trading Melo is our best bet? Or Melo stays as a Knicks for the i tire contract probably extend for few more years and accept the fact that Melo will be a part. His salary is reasonable. If we ended up with a high pick this year plus salary cap, isn’t going to that direction is also good? We can trade other pieces like lee Noah or oquinn atleast we have a solid pf sf even sg and c we just need pg through draft and more fire power in the free agency isn’t it a good road?

    Part of what made Oak so endearing to me was his “telling it like it is” in comically metaphorical language. Everyone knows he was never the sharpest knife in the drawer, but at least there were never any airs about him. It’s pretty likely he was talking some loud and unvarnished but essentially true shit about Dolan, who told the security staff to deal with him. Oak’s reaction was pretty predictable. Rude and misdirected that it was, it’s still a pretty effective FU to Dolan. Ultimately, he’s responsible for creating this circus atmosphere.


    32 years old Melo is already not a star getting paid max money… that would be an absolutely terrible outcome, specially with an extension like you mention.

    “it’s his team”, and he’s going to keep chucking bad shots and will decline even further in his skills, which is a recipe for disaster.

    keeping Melo for the next, say, 4 years is a clear path for continued mediocrity.

    Reub, Ambro,

    You guys are 100pct wrong. Dolan sent security guards to throw Oakley out because of something he said. To draw a fair parallel, that is like a cop drawing a gun on a three year old for yelling at his brother. It is fucking insane. Oak is not just some random heckler.

    This is the closest I’ve ever been to giving up as a Knicks fan…and we have all endured some shit.

    LOL you guys just don’t see the angles do you? Philmelo, the two-headed monster, has you all fooled and dancing like puppets on a string. Melo downplayed the entire “feud” again because he knows that this is all staged to get teams back into the mix. He performed brilliantly for his part last night, showing some very enlightened scoring prowess and even played a little defense.

    You heard it from me first.

    GoldClub, regardless of why Oakley was being escorted out he has no right to strike those workers who were just doing their jobs.

    PhilMelo, I salute you for your positive outlook on things. It’s very refreshing to read your posts.

    Has Melo shown any inclination to change his style of play and his role ala an aging Paul Pierce? He does not seem willing or able to accept the value and role his declining skill set even at the 4. Imo, it would be a truly huge act of narcissism to cling to his the ( awful, dysfunctional)Knicks are his team, rather than go a be a highly competent role player on a chp team. This seems to be a tipping point in a career that has been about individual glory rather than being a component of a successful winning team.What is most curious to me about Melo is trying to reconcile the respect he seems to get from the game’s elite players, with what we see of him as the leader of the Knicks.
    He is the opposite of Tim Duncan.

    Reub – wrong the security guards need to act appropriately in context. They were acting threateningly to Oak and I think even bumped him before he pushed them away (if was only pushing). I’ve seen those guards in action — they are the worst. They will come in a gang and grab and drag out fans that are yelling. Oak is not just a fan and the security guard behavior was reprehensible. That said the issue isn’t the security guards it is that Dolan sent them to kick Oakley out of the Garden for something he said. The thought that Dolan could have done this makes my head nearly explode.

    It’s very refreshing to read your posts.

    Knicks fans just aren’t used to thinking five dimensionally like Philmelo and I.

    Asked if he still believes in the mantra he repeated multiple times last season – “Trust in Phil” – Anthony smiled and said, “I did say that huh. You got me. You got me. …I trust the process.”

    I just watched the video again. The security guard absolutely laid hands on Oak before Oak pushed him.

    Look maybe Oakman was yelling at Dolan. So what? Dolan is a disgrace. Its not just that he has ruined this franchise. Oakley was one of the best Knicks during one of the best era’s of the Knicks. He got traded, which sucked for him, but he’s also been frozen out of the franchise since then bc of Dolan’s pettiness. So there is history there. And so he let Dolan know that he’s a disgrace.

    Honestly, we need Silver to intervene like the way the league did with Sterling and the Clippers. I know people now hate Phil. I honestly believe he still doesn’t have full autonomy and that’s why Melo got resigned with the NTC. Until we purge the franchise of Dolan we will continue to be a joke of a franchise. I’m with Oak all the way. The Knicks are more his franchise than Dolan’s.

    GoldClub, regardless of why Oakley was being escorted out he has no right to strike those workers who were just doing their jobs.

    Their job is to keep security in the arena, not to be Dolan’s thugs.

    The guard did put hands on Oakley first. Oakley obviously is going to react that way given his demeanor. Oakley is the man–Dolan is a piece of shit. Since I’m more inclined to believe in Oakley’s story and in Dolan’s pettiness so I gotta side with Oakley on this one.

    Fuck this organization. At least Phil went to go talk to him to calm him down–that’s the nicest thing he’s done since he came here, honestly.

    yeah, between Oakley and Dolan I’d choose the former every single time, don’t really care about the situation.

    the thing is Sterling was a racist and an abuser piece of shit, everyone knew about it… the league had the narrative going perfectly to intervene there. I don think they’ll ever touch Dolan, unfortunately.

    If Dolan and Isiah didn’t get booted out of the league for that sexual harassment suit it’s clear that you’ll basically need video or audio evidence of Dolan saying racist shit or sexually harassing someone before the NBA will intervene.

    Also doesn’t help that Dolan is somewhat within his right mind when Sterling clearly wasn’t (didn’t he have Alzheimer’s or something?)

    I’m sure the guards were being dicks to Oakley, but I could just as easily imagine Oakley saying some shit he probably should not have been saying. As Z-Man notes, Oakley, while very endearing as a player, is also not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I would not be surprised at all if he showed up to the game to basically heckle Dolan throughout the game because he (rightfully) thinks Dolan has kept Oakley away from the team due to Oakley being critical of the team’s play over the years (Dolan is one of those dudes who does not like anything he views as disloyal. He will gladly cut you off if you don’t kiss the ring, which Starks, LJ and Houston are all quite willing to do). So don’t get me wrong, I blame Dolan more, but Oakley almost certainly said some shit that should not surprise anyone if they got kicked out for saying it. I think the whole situation was just sad in general, as Oakley clearly just wants to be part of the Knick organization while also saying whatever he feels like saying about it, which Dolan doesn’t accept. So it’s just sad watching old man Oak be treated like that.

    I don’t think we’ll catch up to either Brooklyn or Phoenix, but I think every other team is passable in our tank.

    To me, Oak was the only Knick to show any fight last night.
    In the end the team just laid down.
    An eight point lead was quickly erased following some atrocious play.
    Lot’s of one on one, early in the shot clock deep 2 pointers, and silly difficult drives.
    They wilt.
    The guards put their hands on Oakley first. Under those circumstances, many would resist.
    Oakley, at 6’10, isn’t exactly used to people doing that to him.

    In either case, there was nothing leading up to that point that anyone can glean that justified a security guard approaching a patron.

    Are you not entertained? Do you not want to tank? Then what is your malfunction here, people?

    But didn’t Oakley make contact with a worker’s face before he began shoving the other guy? You can clearly see the guy’s head recoil from Oakley’s actions. Also it has been noted that people are regularly removed for abusive language but some are saying that Oakley should have been allowed to continue because you don’t like his target?

    Orlando is dropping just as much as we are, and the Lakers might finally realize their stupidity and try to keep their own pick.

    when Embiid comes back the Sixers will be better than us and will probably get higher in the standings, so yeah, it’s still possible. the New Orleans / Dallas / Minnesota group is the biggest danger, because even if none seems intent on tanking, they might still drop just because they are bad…

    Milwaukee might choose to tank too but it’s very unlikely, given that they have many youngsters with upside and don’t have any huge immediate needs.

    Milwaukee might choose to tank too but it’s very unlikely, given that they have many youngsters with upside and don’t have any huge immediate needs.

    I disagree, in the sense that if you have a team of interesting young players and have two major injuries to your young core in the season, why not tank and try to add another young stud to the team? They could use some shooting, and adding one of the points to play combo guard with Giannis would work well. I think they should tank. I mean, they’re seven games under .500!

    Also, fun stat of the day: Philadelphia’s defensive rating without Embiid is 109.1, which would be the 27th mark in the league.

    With him, it’s 99.1, which would be #1 in the entire league.

    Orlando’s beaten the Raptors twice in the past 7 games. I’d say they’re in better shape than we are. They also have a game against the Sixers next. Lakers are tough. I think they’re actually trying to win based on their shellacking of our team.

    I completely agree Brian, I think they would become a super scary contender with a stud PG like Fultz or even Smith, I just don’t think they’ll do it you know? I think Giannis will keep playing his hardest and that alone might guarantee more wins than necessary to have a chance at the top PGs in the draft.


    yeah they did, but the last 9 games they are 2-7, wins against Toronto, losses against everyone else lol.

    I think they are better than the Knicks and the Lakers are stupid enough to not tank, so I’m still hopeful.

    Bucks are still contending:

    John Henson, on what Jabari Parker told him: "I hyperextended it. It's cool. I'm good."— Gary D'Amato (@garydamatogolf) February 9, 2017

    Bucks doctors are calling Parker's injury a knee sprain. He'll have an MRI tomorrow.— Gary D'Amato (@garydamatogolf) February 9, 2017

    This comment/question may get lost in all the Oak, Tank, #trademelo, conversation, but I’m really curious about posters thoughts on Blake Griffin.

    He clearly has some holes in his game, but last night, I saw a lot of talent still there. Mind you, Blake does have a career WS/48 .180 so he’s no where near a scrub. I just feel he gets lost in the conversation playing along side the fantastic CP3 and the TS% monster Deandre Jordan

    I like Griffin, I think he’s a star, a pretty good 2nd or 3rd piece.

    his defense is suspect and his rebounding numbers scare me a bit, but when he’s healthy he’s pretty good.

    I would obviously prefer if he took more inside shots, would help his efficiency much, but the Clippers spacing is sort of weird and he’s having to do a lot without Paul.

    Blake Griffin definitely has skills. He’s strong, agile for his size, has a nice jumper. I think he won’t age well though and seems lost without Paul.

    What really impresses me about Blake is his passing. He’s a very good player, but I think he’s only the 3rd best player on that team, though people can reasonably disagree wrt Deandre being better than him. I like him a lot.

    He’s not going to age particularly well unless he plays more inside or really works on that jump shot, though.

    CP, DJ, and Blake are arguably the best big 3 in the game with all three guys being top 15 producers in the league (I take Curry and KD over CP/DJ but I don’t take Draymond over Blake). Then they have JJ Reddick who’s a GREAT 4th best player. The problem is after that they suck and they handed out terrible contracts. They have Ray Felton AND Jamal Crawford lol.

    He clearly has some holes in his game, but last night, I saw a lot of talent still there. Mind you, Blake does have a career WS/48 .180 so he’s no where near a scrub. I just feel he gets lost in the conversation playing along side the fantastic CP3 and the TS% monster Deandre Jordan

    Like I said yesterday….he’s lost 2-3 steps. He’s way more grounded now and he has realized this and has put in a lot of work on his J. The crazy thing is even with the lost hops he’s still more athletic than 85-90% of the league

    Phil performed heroic tasks yesterday during the altercation. I hope that he continues it and can mediate the Dolan/Oakley dispute enough so that they can appear in public together and bury the hatchet permanently. And then Oak should have his day at MSG for all of his great work as a player for us. I think that Phil is perfectly positioned to do it.

    @62, you mean like Derrick Rose?

    Why can’t Derrick Rose be smart like Blake? *sigh*

    Dolan irritates me so much, holy shit.

    the ringer today had a speculation piece where the Celtics got Griffin for Bradley, the Knicks sent Melo to the Clippers and got Boston’s 2018, Clippers 2018 and the Grizzlies protected one Boston owns, plus Jamal.

    that’s exactly the sort of trade I would not like to see happening… but if it were the only available trade, well, sure why not.

    CP, DJ, and Blake are arguably the best big 3 in the game with all three guys being top 15 producers in the league (I take Curry and KD over CP/DJ but I don’t take Draymond over Blake). Then they have JJ Reddick who’s a GREAT 4th best player. The problem is after that they suck and they handed out terrible contracts. They have Ray Felton AND Jamal Crawford lol.

    Just makes you appreciate Lebron even more, because he and Kyrie beat GSW with even less support last year (Tristan is very good, but Love was pretty bad last NBA Finals and everyone else was garbage).

    I think Phil Jackson is the last straw for Jim Dolan. He has him out here getting slandered on national TV (this is all ESPN wants to talk about). If the Knicks were 32-22 the narrative about what happened with Charles Oakley would have been very different and there’s no way he doesn’t see that. This might be enough to get both of Melo and PJ thrown out of town, so yes, Charles Oakley might have been sacrificed for the greater good.

    We “got Boston’s 2018, Clippers 2018 and the Grizzlies protected one Boston owns, plus Jamal.”

    That sounds like a good haul to me.

    Also, fun stat of the day: Philadelphia’s defensive rating without Embiid is 109.1, which would be the 27th mark in the league.

    With him, it’s 99.1, which would be #1 in the entire league.

    I’m not arguing with you, but just adding: Embiid is probably an outstanding defender objectively, but he has played just 70 minutes with Okafor and Okafor has played 712 minutes without him. It’s like the Clippers offense with Chris Paul and without Austin Rivers. Great starter, horrid backup. Big on/off distortions.

    (This is all relevant to Carmelo Anthony’s value to the Knicks: spend $30M on a mediocre volume shooter, wonder why the team is so much worse when you can’t afford a legit backup for him.)

    Phil isn’t going anywhere. From the NYPost:

    Dolan had been enjoying not being the target of the slings and arrows that come with yet another losing season. Jackson has taken the hit for the Knicks’ recent annual free falls, and Dolan feels that alone has been worth the Zen Master’s $60 million contract.

    Three years ago, Dolan said at the introductory press conference he would “willingly and gratefully” give up all basketball power to Jackson, and so far he has.

    An open letter to James Dolan:

    Mr. Dolan, please keep Phil Jackson in charge of our beloved team. He is a winner and will turn us into winners also. He has already drafted us a unicorn as well as a plump but talented baby Willy. Plus Ron Baker’s hair, er, I mean, his tenacity on defense, is awe-inspiring. We have picks going forward thanks to Phil and I do like his cryptic tweets. Please allow him to dispose us of Melo and his brand once and for all.

    A devoted fan

    Jowels…..amare was a 20+ mil anvil here for years. Noah and rose make 40 mil combined.

    If you have melo….plus competent pieces you can win.

    (I take Curry and KD over CP/DJ but I don’t take Draymond over Blake).

    As good as Paul and Jordan are, Blake is several steps down from Draymond in today’s NBA, despite Green’s bad shooting this year. Dude is #14 in the league in assists per minute. Aside from LeBron, there are no other wings or bigs of any kind until #31 with Nic Batum and then Jokic at #35. The guy melts interior/perimeter schemes with his kickouts.

    Blake is real athletic and all, but a guy taking lobs from the Point God should be able to crack 60 TS%. He’s just not as good as his draft slot or postseason accolades would suggest. Overrated as hell.

    (This is all relevt to Carmelo Anthony’s value to the Knicks: spend $30M on a mediocre volume shooter, wonder why the team is so much worse when you can’t afford a legit backup for him.)

    And yet there are still aspects of this team that are so much better without him. With Melo in: Knicks are 27th in the League in Assist Percentage. With Melo out: Knicks are 13th in the League in Assist Percentage.

    If you have melo….plus competent pieces you can win.

    Have you been watching this season at all? And did you remember that in ’12-’13, the Knicks had the best center in the league who was just 18 months removed from being the starter on a team that obliterated LeBron & co. in the Finals?

    er should know better. Melo has a .111 WS/48. He’s not a player you build around anymore.

    @75 I don’t know why but I remembered Blake’s efficiency being a lot better than it is this season. With a TS% at .556 compared to Draymond’s .542, it’s hard to argue his value over Green. So yeah, looking at the numbers and what Draymond does defensively I gotta go with him.

    Here’s his dunk attempt % year by year:


    In his rookie season, he shot just 15% of his attempts from 16-23 ft. Last year, 45%. Carmelo-like…

    Mr. Dolan, if you read this, I will be your public scapegoat for only $5 million dollars per year, and as a side bonus I’d probably be much better at running the Knicks.

    So what happens? Melo and Phil both stay, and it’s a Twitter beef-fest for the next 2.5 seasons?

    Yeah, that sounds about right.

    I never said anything about building around melo. I was talking about his salary and how you can win if you have other good players

    Melo will play much better with the Clippers with CP3 feeding him and being a 4th option. Plus playoffs. Do it Melo for all of our sakes.

    Dolan has to get rid of Phil. You can’t pay somebody 600% of the average salary everyone else at the position makes because he takes the fall for you. That’s asinine.

    Dolan has to get rid of Phil. You can’t pay somebody 600% of the average salary everyone else at the position makes because he takes the fall for you. That’s asinine.

    It being asinine =/= Dolan can’t pay somebody 600% of the average salary everyone else at the position makes because he takes the fall for you.

    In other words, while yes, it’s asinine, when has that ever stopped Dolan before?

    Bobby Mark’s mock draft:
    1. Boston (from Brooklyn): PG Markelle Fultz
    Age: 18
    Ht./Wt.: 6-4/195
    The Celtics cash in once again with a top-three pick and land the player most teams consider to be the most talented prospect in the draft. Fultz will have the luxury of being able to ease his way into the NBA alongside some talented guards.
    2. Phoenix: PG Lonzo Ball
    Age: 19
    Ht./Wt.: 6-6/190
    While the Suns have a very talented point guard on a very friendly contract in Eric Bledsoe, it remains to be seen how he fits into their long-term outlook with such a young roster. Ball’s size, creativity and unselfishness will fit in well on a roster that ranks dead last in most passing metrics.
    3. L.A. Lakers: SF Josh Jackson
    Age: 19
    Ht./Wt.: 6-8/203
    The Lakers will be on pins and needles once again on the night of the lottery because this pick will be conveyed to Philadelphia if it falls outside of the top three. A big-time wing prospect would be a great addition to their talented roster, and Jackson’s defense, passing ability and versatility are very attractive.
    4. Philadelphia: PG Dennis Smith
    Age: 19
    Ht./Wt.: 6-3/195
    North Carolina State
    The 76ers are still trying to figure out their point-guard situation, where Ben Simmons may end up spending quite a bit of time offensively. Nevertheless, in a draft that is absolutely stacked at this position, they will have to look at Smith, Malik Monk (whose skill set perhaps fits the roster best), De’Aaron Fox and Frank Ntilikina because the 76ers aren’t in position to pass on talent in order to fill a specific need. A trade could also be something they look at to speed up the rebuilding process.
    5. Minnesota: SF/PF Jonathan Isaac
    Age: 19
    Ht./Wt.: 6-11/205
    Florida State
    The Timberwolves are one of the youngest teams in the NBA and might not be all that interested in…


    adding another teenager to their roster. Barring a trade, someone like Isaac could be a good fit with Andrew Wiggins and Karl-Anthony Towns. He can guard multiple positions and stretch the floor, and plays an unselfish brand of basketball.
    6. Orlando: PF Lauri Markkanen
    Age: 19
    Ht./Wt.: 7-0/225
    The Magic are one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA, in no small part due to their lack of shooting. A power forward who can space the floor is a major need, and Markkanen looks like a great fit.
    7. Sacramento: SF Jayson Tatum
    Age: 18
    Ht./Wt.: 6-8/204
    The Kings will lose this pick if it falls outside of the top 10. They have a gaping hole at small forward, and Tatum could be hard to pass. He has impressive scoring instincts and self-confidence, and will remind some of Rudy Gay.
    8. New Orleans: PG De’Aaron Fox
    Age: 19
    Ht./Wt.: 6-4/171
    With Jrue Holiday entering free agency this summer, the Pelicans could look to address their future at point guard in a draft that is filled with playmakers. Fox’s length, athleticism and upside would fit well long term.
    9. Dallas: PG Frank Ntilikina
    Age: 18
    Ht./Wt.: 6-5/170
    Strasbourg (Turkish Airlines Euroleague)
    Deron Williams is in his mid-30s and entering free agency, meaning the Mavs could start to think about long-term guard prospects. Ntilikina plays the brand of unselfish, intelligent basketball coach Rick Carlisle likes and projects as a multi-positional defender.
    10. New York: PG/SG Malik Monk
    Age: 19
    Ht./Wt.: 6-4/185
    Regardless of whether Derrick Rose stays in New York, the Knicks could absolutely benefit from Monk’s offensive firepower. The sharp-shooting combo guard won’t have any qualms playing under the bright lights of Madison Square Garden.

    I agree with the terrible backup thing jowles, Okafor is about as useless as you’ll find in a professional basketball player… but what really impressed me about the Embiid splits is that many times when he’s been off the court, Noel has been playing, and he has the reputation (somewhat deservedly I think) of being a great defender too.

    the stats suggest a Gobert-like impact on defense, which bodes really well for his future, if he can control the turnover issues… that is likely, though, as many other rookie centers struggled a lot with turnovers against NBA level defenders, and many have shown fast improvement in their careers, Marc Gasol being a good example.

    Blake’s numbers just are not that impressive, especially if you shade them down for playing with CP3 and DJ, who help his numbers on the offensive and defensive end. I also agree that his athleticism is much less notable than in earlier years.

    It’s interesting to watch the way his game has changed. A major mistake that early statheads made was assuming that certain styles of play are sustainable in the long term. But you can’t always just project the numbers out. There are certain niches that are difficult to fill across an entire NBA career.

    His turnover rate is about 180% higher than league average for frontcourt players while his shooting volume is only 62% greater. While I do think that Embiid is likely to improve his turnover problem, in order to reach star level, he either has to reduce it from all-time-worst levels or improve his efficiency while maintaining his crazy-high usage. That’s no easy feat.

    I imagine Blake gets fewer roll opportunities to dunk on the floor with DJ, because DJ is a better finisher and can’t shoot for shit. He might be somewhat more efficient on a team that didn’t have a pick and roll center.

    Blake is injured way too often to gamble on given that he’s not anywhere near an elite player to begin with.

    I mean, I’d trade Melo for him, but I wouldn’t want Blake in a vacuum considering the salary he’ll likely command. He’s a good player though.

    Blake is better than Melo, but he’s not going to get us to the promised land. especially if frequently injured.


    I agree, but I think there’s a real possibility it happens, and some precedents.

    Embiid has a .584 ts% and 17.9 tov% on a sky-high 36.4 usage rate.

    Marc Gasol on his rookie year had a .590 ts% and 16.6 tov% on a much lower 18.3 usage rate. His tov% has gone down every other season until 10.4 right now.

    it is also fair to assume that as Simmons comes back and Philly gets better players around him, his usage will go down from the insane levels they are now, which might also help him in the long run.

    he might never become a top 5 player in the NBA, but for all the process detractors, the Sixers are in a very exciting position to be honest.

    Embiid has bigger problems related to his health. He needs to show he can play a full NBA season.

    @99 I think we’re moving up anyway. Sac and Dallas may pass us. The Wolves too.

    7th place might get us Isaac according to tankathon. But we’d still need a PG. They have Fox going 10th to us now as things stand.

    Chris Paul ? @CP3
    Hope that he gets some help soon? Not the right way to portray Oak…always had my back and the realest person our league has seen #UncleOak
    12:33 PM – 9 Feb 2017

    Remember when this guy was gonna sign with us because Derrick Rose made him realize we were good or something lol

    The problem with the Oakley-Dolan dustup is the same as with the Phil-Melo feud — there are no good guys. Oakley is one of my favorite athletes ever, but I don’t believe for a second that he was sitting there quietly and Dolan sent his goons to throw him out. I’m sure he was yelling things at Dolan, who was sitting a few rows up, and Dolan had him tossed. On the video, Oakley shoves a security guard in the face and slaps away others. This isn’t the basketball court; you can’t be doing stuff like that. Dolan is a petulant, incompetent spoiled brat, but Oakley did wrong here too.

    Just like Phil is a smug jerk while Melo is selfish and stubborn. For fans, it shouldn’t be a matter of picking a side. I want them both gone.

    Let’s hope that CP3 comes to save Melo from the big, bad Dolan and Phil.

    Oh no. Another tank? Can’t we just do it all at once? Is there some way for us to add Isaac and Fox this year and then play to win?

    James L. Dolan, the Knicks’ owner, with whom Oakley has a contentious relationship, sat nearby, but several spectators said they did not see Oakley exchange any words with Dolan or try to provoke him.

    But they did see Oakley exchanging glances with a security guard who was standing several feet away. Oakley seemed to utter something to the guard when he walked by, according to T. J. Veenstra, who was sitting behind Oakley.

    A guard soon came over to Oakley and asked him to leave. Oakley asked why.

    “He just couldn’t understand why,” said Matthew Barbara, who sat a few rows up from Oakley. “We didn’t see him throw a punch or do anything. He wasn’t nasty to any of the people behind him. We’re trying to figure out what happened.”

    Basically, no one is corroborating Dolan’s bullshit.

    Oh no. Another tank? Can’t we just do it all at once? Is there some way for us to add Isaac and Fox this year and then play to win?

    As long as Phil Jackson is running this shit, it’s a permanent tank. Well, not quite a permanent “tank,” per se, since he’ll put together just the right collection of mediocre has-beens to win 34 games every year so the Knicks never get a premium lottery pick.

    You want to win some games, fire the doofus who keeps putting together the shitty rosters.

    To be fair, at least so far Jackson has been so bad at his job that he’s accidentally tanked them into the top five of a great draft and might do the same again with another great draft!

    If you’re going to be really shitty at your job, at least be lucky!

    If you’re going to be really shitty at your job, at least be lucky!

    And have Clarence Gaines Jr. as your primary talent evaluator.

    Shit, Jabari Parker tore his ACL. Hyperextension my ass.

    Yeah, that looked like a tear from the word go. Weird that they tried to say otherwise. They really should tank. Don’t bring Middleton back and maybe rest Giannis a bit.

    Emmanuel Mudiay is questionable for tomorrow night’s game with a bad back.

    That at least helps Denver’s chances.

    Brian I don’t think they tried to say otherwise. “Sprain” is common first 24 hour placeholder boilerplate pending MRI. The hyper extension stuff was supposedly something Jabari himself said to a teammate.

    I don’t think Jabari’s injury is going to hurt the Bucks that much. They can just give more minutes to (I can’t believe I’m typing this) the superior Michael Beasley.

    ? Jabari is way better than Beasley by every metric

    The only advanced metric that thinks Beasley has been better than Jabari this year is Wins Produced, and Wins Produced is phlogiston.

    First D Rose goes AWOL, then Phil starts a one sided flame war with Melo, and then Charles Oakley gets ejected and arrested. This might be the most embarrassing season since Isiah Thomas ran the franchise, and the media is about to run make Phil Jackson opt out.

    Thats what i was saying the other day. This is bigger than Melo, this franchise is turning into a shitshow. Remember how Eli became a NY Giant?

    The Knicks’ department of propaganda would have seemed unimaginably bad at their job until this year

    So the Cavs claiming Derrick Williams makes facilitating a Melo trade with them A LOT easier. The Knicks wanted him back this offseason and had interest when the Heat waived him. If I was a conspiracy theorist I might say…

    This is bullshit. Denver thinks they can sit 3 of their starters against us and tank.

    Come on guys!

    It’s not time for doubt ourselves!

    We can outtank them without 3 starters!

    So the Knicks are 6-19 over their last 25 games. If they keep that pace up, they’ll finish the season with 28-29 wins, which would put them somewhere in the 3-8 overall worst record range, depending how the Sixers, Lakers, Magic, Twolves and Pels finish. 538 has us finishing with the 8th overall worst record.

    Hopefully, we can sell off Jennings, OQ and Lee for future seconds at the deadline. The 8th pick would be fine, but a top5 pick is attainable.

    As KnicksPR just tweeted more shit about Oakley, and Phil just tweeted a cryptic semi apology for his last cryptic semi insult, I wonder what I’m still doing here with this team.

    if we draft Malik Monk or Jayson Tatum in the top 10 if THIS draft, I’ll probably have a seizure…

    then watch as posters try to argue that Monk can fit as the PG of the future, create his own shot and break down defenses.

    What’s the latest? I’m too lazy to search. The line about Oakley needing to get help appears to have backfired badly.

    Tony Williams Retweeted Harvey Araton
    It’s why a prominent F/A once told me he’d “never” sign w/ #NYK. Said rather “put on a show” as a visitor than play 82 in a “toxic” place.


    So after starting a ?storm with a misunderstood tweet, I offer this??our society is torn with discord. I’m against it. Let It Be

    Somebody PULEEZE get Phil’s senile ass out of the Garden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

    In a vacuum, getting a player like Malik Monk at 8 is pretty good value.

    Bruno I’m pretty sure you and I literally had this exact argument a couple weeks ago, when we both concluded that Monk has CJ McCollum potential, which is worth the 8th pick. There is a clear list of 7 players I’d want over Monk (in no particular order): Fultz, Ball, Isaac, Smith Jr, Josh Jackson, Ntilikina, and Fox (though it’s close with Fox).

    So if we’re not picking in the top 7 and we end up with Monk I don’t really see how you could be upset.

    The saddest thing about the state of this franchise is that prominent free agents refusing to sign with us might be a blessing in disguise.

    “Somebody PULEEZE get Phil’s senile ass out of the Garden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1”

    Phil saved Dolan’s life and kept Oakley from major jail time yesterday. He’s a superhero in my book.

    “I refuse to sign with this toxic organizati…oh, you said sevenTEEN million? Okay, I think I can manage it.”

    “I refuse to sign with this toxic organizati…oh, you said sevenTEEN million? Okay, I think I can manage it.”

    lol true….but you can only see that type of thing in an Amare situation

    If we draft Malik Monk we will be re-signing Derrick Rose after his string of hot starts in April knocks us from 4th to 8th place in the draft.

    Malik Monk and Willy Hernangomez would be a hell of a bench tandem.

    “I refuse to sign with this toxic organizati…oh, you said sevenTEEN million? Okay, I think I can manage it.”

    Haha! We didn’t want you anyway.

    Somewhere lost in all this is poor Hornacek. I don’t think we can really know if he is a good coach or not from this year.

    Still crossing my fingers for a Melo trade. It really is best for him and the team.

    Philmelo is so genius. Now Phil takes back the tweet after Melo jokes and threatens to stay. Brilliant fifth dimensional chess maneuvers here.

    You heard it from me first.

    It took me a long time to process what happened with Oak. And it’s..tough, ’cause he’s one of my all-time favorite Knicks- at least top 5. It still seems surreal. The way Dolan and crew has handled Oak is seriously testing my “want” to be a Knicks fan. The tweet? That was pretty low. Lower than the Melo-Phil beef. It shouldn’t matter if the owner doesn’t like Oak’s critiques, or even him as a person. That man is a Knick LEGEND who gave 110% for the team no matter the circumstance when he played.

    “Ewing and I are hurt? He’s more important, problem. Let me go out here and sacrifice even more so we can win TONIGHT by playing out of position at the 5 and get this quick 20 and 10 and hold it down for this team. IT’S WHAT I DO”

    That was Oak. You don’t run a team based on personal dislike of a current or former player. You do it so the fans will appreciate the product and thus continue their patronage. In my eyes, not inviting him back due to personal issues screams, “fuck you and what you stood for as a Knick! Fuck your contributions too!” It wouldn’t surprise me if Dolan bans the #34 jersey from ever being worn again. Even worse, he PAID for his ticket. So you have security escort a paying customer out, who probably wasn’t saying anything the average FAN wouldn’t say? Then..then he gets arrested because he shoved said security because he didn’t want their hands on him? I’m not absolving Oak at all. In fact, I wish he showed some restraint in the moment. But did it REALLY hafta go THAT far where he’s arrested and then damn near disparaged by the organization ON SOCIAL FRICKIN MEDIA???? WTF??

    My fandom has been threatened a few times before. The unceremonious Ewing dump, even though I fully understood the reason behind it and could get behind it. The even more unceremonius Sprewell dump, the inexplicable H20 contract, the ridiculous Camby for McDyess swap and a few others I won’t mention. This Oak situation is just tough for me to…

    I’m higher than most here on Monk and maybe I’ll go down with the ship, BUT the guy way higher than bench player potential. I think his floor is something like a more athletic Lou Williams but his ceiling is a more athletic CJ McCollum.

    In terms of my Knicks-specific big board I’d probably rank ’em: 1) Fultz 2) Smith 3) Isaac 4) Jackson 5) Lonzo 6) Ntilikina 7) Fox 8) Monk 9) Tatum.

    prominent free agents refusing to sign with us might be a blessing in disguise.

    Agreed. FA signings are a lame way to build a team except in rare circumstances.

    @SJK Stick to your guns. People on this website also knocked Dion Waiters.

    Agreed. FA signings are a lame way to build a team except in rare circumstances.

    No team has 12 drafted players on it. You will have some FA, no matter how prominent. Most with more than one choice will probably make the other choice. Thats the point, not ” oh, we want to build through the draft”

    You will have some FA, no matter how prominent.

    Sure, but the type of FA who is being referenced in that tweet is a big name type. We don’t need any big name FAs who would reject playing for us because its too negative for them. These are usually the first type to bail when things get too hard.

    I just don’t want this franchise to think about free agent bidding wars. That’s not where it is. We’re in the tank and rebuild mode now. We don’t have a clue for what this team is without some of the vets gone.


    Lonzo is a great prospect. On the right team, he’d be #2 overall. The Sixers would be a great fit. However, I just think Smith, Jackson, and Isaac are all better fits for the Knicks. To really get the most out of Lonzo you need to put him next to more talent. His ability to get shots up off the dribble scares me. All guys are great prospects. To put Lonzo 5 isn’t to condemn him as a player.

    Of that top 5, I’d say Fultz is in Tier 1a, Smith is in Tier 1b, and Isaac, Jackson, and Ball are in Tier 2. If you want to put Ball ahead of Isaac and/or Jackson, that’s fine. My point is more specifically that I’d rather have Smith (again, for the Knicks) and obviously Fultz.

    I fully disagree. Lonzo Ball is not a better fit for the Sixers because they already have to two ball dominant scorers in their frontcourt in Embiid and Simmons. Ball is precisely the type of PG we should want for a big man like KP who has the size and shooting skills to score from anywhere in halfcourt but is limited in his handle to create his own shot.

    As for Ball’s stroke, its a potential problem but shouldn’t deter us from taking him. There are multiple ways for PGs to get open in this league and shoot. Because he does everything else at elite levels for his position, he will immediately make this team better by leaps and bounds. Smith and Fultz are good players, but they don’t enhance their surrounding teams as well. I see Fultz as a future 2 guard and Smith isn’t as well rounded as Ball.

    Jahlil Okafor is the Derek Rose of C/PFs. He does one defining aspect of his position at an elite level (score in the post) and nothing else well. You see regular box scores where he scores a nice percentage of shots while giving up negative differentials when he’s out there on the floor because his defense is garbage and he stops the ball.

    Man. It’s seasons like this I am happy I sign up to the League Pass premium subscription. It’s nice having a buffet of great basketball to watch on demand while we flounder away. The Oak stuff is really icing on the cake. Regardless of what actually happened yesterday, I struggle to think of a franchise in all of sports that alienates it’s alumni like the Knicks. It’s hard to believe that Oak has to buy a ticket when Al Harrington and Quinton Richardson are given court side seats.

    Jennings ran a beautiful p&r with kp last night but missed him on the pass and I think it went the other way for a dunk. Still, it was a good play. My problem is why go away from it? The second unit moves the ball. Melo and Rose really only create for themselves. Assists for them are the second option. It results in too many momentum breaking plays. It reminds me of when the Jets tried the wildcat a few years ago with Tebow. They ruined Mark Sanchez by taking the ball out of his hands on 3rd down. In the modern NBA you should be able to get an uncontested shot most of the time. Even when the buzzer beater offense works it backfires because guys stop cutting. Honestly I like our talent except for Rose. I like Melo better than most but I think he needs an alpha dog bigger than him.
    Dolan is an idiot but so was Steinbrenner. We can still win.
    One more thought. I’d be just as happy drafting slightly lower and having our present roster show some upside. To me it’s six of one half a dozen of the other compared to losing every game and only having three real players next year. Just a thought.

    What did Phil Jackson do during the Oakley incident?

    He tried to ease the situation by inviting Dolan and Oak to a mid-season peyote ceremony in Montana to get everyone ‘zen’ again.

    His ability to get shots up off the dribble scares me.

    So basically, on offense, he’s Klay Thompson with a better shot and better court vision? I’ll take that at #2, and I think Thompson is totally overrated.

    As for Ball’s stroke, its a potential problem but shouldn’t deter us from taking him.

    He’s been a dominant, 99th percentile outside shooter in every tier of organized basketball he’s played AND he’s 6’6″. He’s not going to have a problem shooting in the NBA if he doesn’t have a problem shooting now. Dribble penetration is a totally different story, but he will smoke defenses by simply camping on the perimeter and waiting for a shifted defense. He’s going to be a ridiculous scorer in the NBA, provided no one tries to “fix” his ugly yet consistently-effective shooting mechanics.

    Yeah, the whole Oakley situation is really sickening, but as a long time follower of the Dolan era Knicks, it sadly does not surprise. The tweet about him needing “help” is really low, far lower than Jackson’s pompous needling of Melo and Lebron. Dolan is by far that hardest thing to take for me as a Knick fan. Back during and following the horrible Thomas era, I stopped buying any Knicks merchandise for a few years as my own (pathetic, perhaps) protest. I don’t live near NY, so there’s not much else I can do.

    It would be nice if the NBA would investigate and do something if it turns out that Oakley was substantially wronged, but that’s not gonna happen. Maybe some former Knicks could get together and say that they will not participate in Knicks stuff any further without Oakley? Ah, that won’t happen, nor would it force Dolan to relent.

    Of course Oak should not have shoved and struck security guys, but I’ve been to events in my life where I’ve seen bullying, aggressive security guys. To know that some spiteful, petty rich man is behind it all must have been pretty galling for Oak…

    @164, in an ideal situation Lonzo doesn’t have the ball in his hands all the time in his first year or so, and maybe long-term. He just don’t have the off the bounce game for that. He would be PERFECT next to Simmons as a floor-spacing, secondary ball-handler with elite passing skills.

    He’d probably be fine on our team too, though I’d expect a lot of turnovers in the first few years. But guys like Smith and Fultz are way better fits next to KP. Smith is a great playmaker, I think he’s the only guy the in country to have multiple 15 assist games. Fultz is also a great playmaker who suffers from having teammates that suck. Both guys have way better midrange games than Ball and both are much better finishers around the rim.

    While Lonzo would be fine, Fultz and Smith are exactly the guys you want in a high usage role dribbling the ball around and creating plays that KP finishes.

    What I don’t understand is how can an owner ban a particular person from their place of business for no apparent reason. If I was Oakley I’d file a lawsuit against Dolan on the basis of discrimination. If Oakley was just sitting down and minding his own business Dolan has no legal right to kick him out of a game he paid good money to watch.

    James Dolan’s gotta keel over soon, right?

    I’m an Oakland Raiders fan. Al Davis eventually died. So there is hope.

    The thing about the league doing anything with Dolan is he owns MSG. How much of the Knicks’ value is derived from the building they occupy? Gotta be just enough, right?

    Speaking of mock trades, The Dunk’d on podcast just did a series of trade deadlines trade simulations. The person representing the Clippers was will to give up Reddick, Brice Johnson and Austin Rivers for Melo. Redick was immediately traded to Indiana for a 2018 mid first round pick and Lavoy Allen and Aaron Brooks, both of whom add no salary to the Knicks for next year. The Knicks had to waive Plumlee, Ndour and Vujacic to make this trade happen and Paul Peirce also moved to Indianapolis. I don’t think this trade is likely to happen, but it and the Chicago Sun-Times article reported by Accidentank suggest that Melo has real value around the league and the Knicks should be able to get more than salary cap filler in return for him, assuming a deal can be made.

    in an ideal situation Lonzo doesn’t have the ball in his hands all the time in his first year or so, and maybe long-term. He just don’t have the off the bounce game for that. He would be PERFECT next to Simmons as a floor-spacing, secondary ball-handler with elite passing skills.

    I don’t quite understand why you design an offense that takes the ball out of the hands of a superior ballhandler and put in the hands of the lesser ballhandler. As for Fultz and Ball, I won’t take anything away from their great abilities as scorers and playmakers. I just think Ball is the better all around player than they are.

    Maybe Trump can name Dolan as US ambassador to Luxembourg or some such thing. Wouldn’t he have to give up control of the Knicks?

    Wait, don’t they hate each other? That’s all the more reason for Trump to name him!

    I would love to see fans revolt, but it won’t happen. Alot of fans have purchased tickets in advance, so it would be silly for those fans not to get something for their money. Miraculously, fans are gonna always show up. Unfortunately..that is the only way Dolan will see. Or maybe not- he’s got enough money not to give a fawk

    Dolan was just sitting and watching the game. I don’t think he did anything. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    Dolan was just sitting and watching the game. I don’t think he did anything. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    Dolan had a Knicks legend removed because he doesn’t like said legend and didn’t appreciate things he said as a fan. No..of course..he didn’t do anything wrong. Nor did he act impulsively or succumb to a ridiculous ego. Nothing screwy about that lol.

    What I don’t understand is how can an owner ban a particular person from their place of business for no apparent reason.

    So long as it isn’t for stuff like sex, gender, religion, a private business like MSG can bar entry for whatever reason they feel like. Dolan owns the place. He can set the rules. Doesn’t mean he’s less of a dick, of course. Just noting that he legally can kick out Oakley because he hates Oakley.

    What did Phil Jackson do during the Oakley incident?

    While Oakley was in the hallway in handcuffs freaking out at the guards, Jackson came over to ask what the problem was. Oakley didn’t want to talk to Jackson (not him specifically, he didn’t want to be calmed down by anyone period), so Jackson went back to his seat. So Jackson did try to see if he could help, but he didn’t actually have an effect either way.

    Sixers were going to pass us anyways. Embiid will heal and Simmons will be cleared to play. They’re bound to play a lot better basketball after the All Star break. Its the Magic that worry me. They suck major ass and should’ve won tonight to begin to make up some ground on us. I mean the Sixers were playing with Okafor in the starting lineup for crying out loud.

    oh, I only saw SJK post now, sorry.

    I agree that Monk will be a McCollum type and that’s great value for the 8th pick, but I definitely do not think the Knicks would benefit from having a guy like this on their present situation… I think he’ll be instantly an impact player but I believe his ceiling is limited, this is what he is… he won’t ever develop to be much more than a high volume, slightly above average scorer. That would be very valuable for a team like the Sixers or the Bucks, but not really for the hypothetical post-melo Knicks.

    drafting Monk would probably drop Lee to the bench and lead the front office to get a PG in free agency, and most choices are either average / overpaid dudes (Teague or Holiday) or impossible targets like Paul.

    even if Monk does turn out to be a valuable player, we could be stuck again in a position where he’s valuable, but not enough to move the needle, and the team is left with not much upside. I’d rather take my chances with Fox or Ntilikina and gamble on the big upside.

    Dallas is also getting crushed by the Jazz, which is kinda expected since the Jazz at legit good, but not great for our standings.

    We should strongly considering drafting Dillon Brooks in the 2nd

    UCLA would so be nothing without Ball. Its as clear as day. Leaf would be nothing. Their record would be nothing. All big nothings. Kid looks bored out there having to play with such scrubs.

    Why does Orlando suck so bad? They have good defensive talent and a good defensive coach. They shouldn’t be one of the worst teams in the league.


    Bad combination of pieces. A team where Serge Ibaka is the primary scorer has got problems.

    Seth Curry is doing gods work down in Dallas

    Dallas has been playing really well since Dirk returned and Yogi was signed. I have a good feeling they will surpass our win record in little time.

    Great Mavs Jazz game

    I had to turn off UCLA because my streaky dropped inexplicably

    Who should pass us? Dallas, Sacramento and Philly. Anybody else?

    I don’t know if Sacto will. They’re awful. I could see Minnesota maybe.

    If we stand pat at the deadline I imagine we’ll be #7-8

    If we tank the sky is the limit

    The Cavs lost and the Celtics are losing (early) so maybe they’ll be a little more motivated to make a big trade.

    I can see every team except the Suns, Nets, Magic, Kings and maybe the Lakers surpassing us in the standings.

    Sacto might fall apart. No Gay, another season spiraling away, and Boogie is already over the tech limit and is facing regular suspensions.

    Philly and Dallas should pass us. Minny could if they ever get their shit together. New Orleans is a coin flip.

    This Ball is who we’re tanking for? Wasn’t Fultz also lethargic the other night against Ball?


    Yeah, Suns, Lakers, and Nets seem like locks. Magic and Kings are very bad, but who knows.

    Anything from #4-13 seems possible.

    Sometimes I wonder if Horny is as good a coach as most of us think he is. How would Carlisle do with our team?

    Carlisle is one of the best in the league. No idea what Horny is yet, but Carlisle is better.

    Interesting thing about the Kings is that they ended up winning their last game without Cousins. I wonder if that dude is what’s keeping them back. He must be hell to coach in a game and probably does what he likes, jacking 3s and throwing tantrums.

    Carlisle is one of the best in the league. No idea what Horny is yet, but Carlisle is better.

    I don’t think Horny has been given a real good opportunity to start his coaching career. That’s both with Phoenix and New York. He managed to get a lot out of a pretty young squad in Phoenix until FO effed things up for him. I think here in New York he’s been asked to do too much with a roster that just doesn’t fit; which I think has forced his hand to throw out weird lineups and rotations. I would love to see him get the chance with another young squad and implement HIS systems.

    I’ve got tickets to three more games this year. This Oak situation has me questioning my fandom more than any other event in the last 30 years. There has been of lot of shit we’ve all been served but this is the worst. I ‘m going to spend the next three games I go to chanting “fire Dolan”…and see what happens. I’m not going to chant anything else, I’m not going to drink. I’m not even going to be particularly loud. I suggest you all do the same. Also, I sit 8 rows behind Phil.

    On second thought I think my chant will be “Charles Oakley”…this is better.

    Magic Johnson is at this game scouting Ball for the Lakers. No es bueno para el tanque.

    Ball is one of my favorite prospects ever, but we won too many “lucky” (turns out they were anything but) games early on for him. I’m over it and onto Isaac.

    In terms of the initial draft positions, there’s a really wide spread of teams who have moved into the top 3. Of course it’s better to begin higher, but there’s no guarantees of anything.

    Lonzo’s jumper really is incredibly ugly, but he is very good at repeating the motion. The mechanics of it are very funky, but it’s always the same kind of funky. You can’t really say he has “bad” mechanics, because he is consistent with his form, and because he makes his shots at a very high percentage.

    It’s sort of like a pitcher who has some crazy noisy delivery– you have to be very consistent with your little tics. One split-second late on your toe tap or something and your whole body can get out of sync. I can see why the argument is made that Lonzo’s unconventional jumper will be a hindrance in the NBA, but I don’t think it will be a problem. He’s accurate with that thing.

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