Knicks Morning News (2017.01.15)

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose braces for another grueling point-guard test
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:03:56 PM)

    It’s the same thing for him every night, Derrick Rose said — a tough point-guard matchup. Sunday will be no different when Rose and the Knicks visit Toronto to face the Raptors and All-Star/Olympian Kyle Lowry. “It’s the same type of thing as every guy in the league,” Rose said. “Every point guard in the…

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose to Hornacek: Yell at us until we’re sick of it
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:19:58 PM)

    After Saturday’s practice, Knicks point guard Derrick Rose and coach Jeff Hornacek engaged in a long conversation. Rose, essentially, suggested the coach employ more butt-kicking regarding defense. “We were just talking about defensive schemes, what I see with our defense, what he thinks our problems are,” Rose said. “I just told him, ‘It’s defense. Our…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis: I won’t make same return mistake twice
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:17:54 AM)

    So you’re feeling a little better about the Knicks. They won a game, beating Chicago after dropping 9-of-10. Still, they won their last game as they head into Toronto on Sunday. But they probably won’t have Kristaps Porzingis again. Yes, those positive feelings can be so fleeting. Because of his ailing left Achilles, Porzingis sat…

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis ‘probably’ out Sunday, vows not to return too soon again
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:52:54 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis will probably miss Sunday’s Knicks’ game in Toronto because of a sore Achilles.

  • [SNY Knicks] Agent notes Rose’s desire for privacy in discussion of missed game
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 5:17:00 PM)

    Derrick Rose’s agent acknowledged his client should have contacted the Knicks before missing Monday’s loss to New Orleans. But BJ Armstrong noted Rose’s desire for privacy, implying it may have played a role in Rose’s thinking.

  • [SNY Knicks] How long will Noah’s renaissance last?
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 10:33:12 AM)

    Joakim Noah appears to be turning a corner with the Knicks.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis to sit out again with painful left Achilles
    (Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:34:21 AM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Kristaps Porzingis sat out most of the Knicks’ practice Saturday and said he probably won’t play against Toronto on Sunday because of lingering pain in his left Achilles.

  • [NY Newsday] Derrick Rose wants Jeff Hornacek to push Knicks on defense
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:06:25 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Derrick Rose and Jeff Hornacek were talking on the court after practice, and the subject was the whereabouts of the Knicks’ defense. It has gone AWOL too many nights this season. Rose said he told Hornacek he wants him to spend more time drilling the Knicks on defense.

  • [NY Newsday] NBA Insider: Knicks might want to use first-round pick on point guard
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 6:06:47 PM)

    At least the Knicks have their first-round pick this year.

  • [NYTimes] Eric Gordon Likes What He Sees, After a Change of Scenery
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 6:53:59 PM)

    Gordon left behind five injury-marred seasons in New Orleans to become the most dangerous shooter in Houston, a team partial to the 3-point shot.

  • [ESPN] Rose wants Hornacek to demand more on defense
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:54:55 PM)

    Rose wants Hornacek to demand more on defense

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis vows not to rush back too fast this time
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:07:26 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis said he will “probably” sit out Sunday’s game at Toronto with a sore Achilles.

  • [NYDN] Derrick Rose tells Knicks coach Hornacek to focus more on AWOL D
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:04:35 PM)

    Derrick Rose wants Jeff Hornacek to be more like Tom Thibodeau.

  • [NYDN] It’s now or never if Phil Jackson is going to fix the Knicks
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:47:55 PM)

    For the past 15 years the New York Knicks have been one of the greatest continuing failures in the history of New York City sports.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony went on tirade after shocking 76ers loss: source
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 9:48:20 AM)

    The look of disgust on Carmelo Anthony’s face the instant T.J. McConnell beat the Knicks at the buzzer on Wednesday.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson silence shows the soap opera continues at Garden
    (Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:39:13 AM)

    Phil Jackson was criticized for laying low after Derrick Rose went AWOL Monday night.

  • 43 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.15)”

    I just got back home. Let’s get this team straightened out. Who says no?


    I do. The only thing I want to sort out is our probable lottery spot on draft day.

    No Reub, lol.

    All jokes aside, I was once very optimistic about this team. But then, Melo’s shoulder, KP’s Achilles, and #25’s no show happened. I still remains hopeful ’cause I love my Knicks, but the clear decision right now is to let the youngins get seasoned via stealth tank and try to find a home for Melo. I’d love love love to see him win as a Knick, but time’s not on his side here. It’s the only real, logical play here. Had Melo & KP not gotten injured, it would be a different story. Those two guys’ injuries will nag and hinder them all season, greatly diminishing chances of winning games. There’s no 2 ways around it.

    It all goes down this afternoon and culminates over the next set of back to backs.

    If we come out of the hole and win 3 of 4 look for another win is deadline move. Losing three of four means look for us to make a deadline move! Lol

    Oh..and one more thing..
    I HATE(!!!) the way #25 is throwing Hornacek under the bus with the “yell at us about defense until we’re sick of hearing it” talk. The first thing and probably only thing he should be saying to the media is “we’ve got to play better on defense- take more pride in it and show some heart when an opposing player is kickin our asses”.

    9 of our next 12 opponents are above .500, and we’re currently a hilarious 3-15 against above .500 teams. This could be the tank’s finest hour. Let us not settle for 3-9. We want 0-12!


    Number 25 should really say, “I need to play better on defense– take more pride in it and show some heart.” But he’s an unaccountable little shit.

    Rose talking like he’s to blame about anything

    not gonna happen

    he a rough rider and a balla and a player and it’s always on someone else

    If we lose out to the playoff teams and win out vs. the sub .500 teams we would be 23-34 by the trade deadline.

    Excellent stealth tank by Phil.


    Number 25 should really say, “I need to play better on defense– take more pride in it and show some heart.” But he’s an unaccountable little shit.

    Ha! True! I think I’ve only seen him be invested defensively once all season. 25’s a great talent, but playing a leadership position- his leadership +/- has been a consistent -43 all season lol. All jokes aside, that irritates me to no end. How is he gonna be able to rally the troops or settle things down on the floor with that detached demeanor and way more talk than action? Melo has never been confused with being a great leader, but at least he’s trying to lead somehow. Puint guards should be fearless and able to show guys the way at the least. You know, make sure the engine is running. 25 just gets out there, scores & attacks, all with arguably with the worst body language, demeanor, and involvement with his teammates. I know he has a laid back temperament, but so does Melo. Melo gets involved though. Sucks at defense, but he gets involved with his teammates

    laid back temperament is also another name for won’t take responsability or won’t bother to even try to be a leader.

    Tim Duncan was the most laid back dude in the history of the NBA and he was one of the fiercest competitors ever too… even when he wasn’t performing the best there was never any doubt about who was the teams superstar and the leader

    These guys just need to keep the win total under 30 this season. Everything else doesn’t matter. It sucks that Melo won’t leave but maybe PJax and D Rose will find their way out of town.

    This off season will determine a lot on Dolan’s part. Does he dish out another $12M, $24M, and $20M to PJ, Melo, and Rose to lose? Or does he cut bait on a failed operation and bring in somebody halfway competent? More losses push us closer to the latter, and that might save the team.

    I root for the Knicks to win every time I watch. Most of the players on the team are likable, as is Hornacek.

    However, am I angry or upset when they lose? No, it is just sports — entertainment. Plus, the tankers may be right; it might be for the best. I would like the Knicks to get one of those elite PG prospects, but they are all likely going in the top 10 picks.

    I also am actively rooting for Melo to waive his NTC and get traded, and for Rose to be traded, too. I can’t wait for Rose to be off this team.

    And I speak as somebody who generally enjoys rooting for everyone on this team. It’s just that these guys can’t get it done because of the effort we get on defense from Rose and Melo. I truly believe we’d be 10 games over .500 if Melo and Rose were plus defenders. They’ve led us to a mediocre offense and an atrocious defense. That’s not going to change anytime soon and somebody needs to put the pressure on Dolan to make wholesale changes.

    Somebody should organize another protest down at MSG and it should be for the 3 year anniversary of the PJ hiring.

    The real culprit is Dolan, who got us a guy, Jackson, without experience, knowledge, qualifications or talent for the GM position.

    The team will only sink further with Phil Jackson at the helm.

    I’ve been rooting for Knicks since early 60’s. Was lucky to be at ’69 Willis Reed game. Ive learned a lot of from this site about advanced metrics and how to take a rational view of your team using them. Imo, part of being of the fun of being a fan (of any sport) is allowing oneself irrational hope that one’s team will at least contend. Metrics mediates that irrational hope, or exuberance, to the extent that I am now rooting for the Knicks to lose. I believe that a profound, significant failure of the current straddle strategy ( make playoffs w/ vets while rebuilding), will hopefully lead to the dumping of the vets & PJ who cannot help us at least contend for a championship ( make ECC). We have an potential anchor star in KP, hate to see us waste that and deal with 15 more years of meh to blechh.

    Yeah, I think Melo to LAC is a match made in someone’s idea of basketball heaven. They could give their fans something to believe in and we could get some extra cap space and maybe a draft pick. Expiring deals only please!

    The Knicks offense is entirely predicated on contested jump shots. The NBA has become a catch and shoot league. Rose and Melo are actually really good at forcing shots in traffic but those shots are only valuable when everything has broken down. Just not enough assists. Even Porzingis looks like he’s learning to play in that mode. Bad lessons for the precocious neophyte.

    If the defense was even passable the offense might be OK, though absolutely not once we’re in the deep water against the top teams. The Knicks are just, obviously, a very troubled organization where the “star” players have more power than the coach. They do what they want and there is no accountability.

    I do like coach Hornacek and enjoy that Sasha is on the bench. For once I’m not asking why guys are on the floor and others sitting. I worry about guys like O’Quinn who see Melo and Rose take plays off on defense and decide to do the same. That guy could be a beast with more consistent effort.

    In closing I’d like to say “DAMN YOU MIKE K”. You’re always right and I should not go against you. 41 wins seemed likely a few weeks ago but now I don’t see anyone I’m confident we can beat. We’re closer to being the worst team in the NBA than we are to being in the playoffs, especially when you consider we are in the weaker conference.

    Hopefully Melo is sick of it, willing to go somewhere, and some team is willing to take him. Time to start making smart decisions. I’m OK with Phil except the NTC. I’d love to root for the Euros the rest of the year, give coach the chance to work with guys who’ll listen and add a bunch of nice, high character pieces in the off season. Noah is a sunk underwater asset but he’s a good guy and if he’s the only bad contract we…

    have then we have a chance to get our act together and be legit in the next couple of years.

    As the tankers have said, it’s probably better that the bottom drops out now and Rose doesn’t get “rewarded” for a first round playoff loss with a long term deal. His shooting numbers have actually been surprisingly ok but his assist numbers are terrible.

    Maybe if they beat some people I’ll change my mind but I have little faith in that and that’s the bottom line.

    I don’t understand why so many here and in general want Phil to go so badly. Yeah, he’s arrogant and a substandard manager of talent. But some of you are acting like he’s the source of the underlying problems plaguing this franchise. Phil at least understands Melo has to be traded sooner rather than later and that we need to rebuild around KP through the draft. Those two factors alone already makes him the best GM we’ve had in 15 years. And if he leaves us there is nothing to stop Dolan from doing something remarkably moronic in the vein of trading our future picks for a Bargiani type waste. At least Phil is willing to stand up to our diva team “leader” and has the respect of our erratic trainwreck owner. Who is to say the next GM will be even able to do that?

    Phil at least understands Melo has to be traded sooner rather than later and that we need to rebuild around KP through our draft picks

    Huh? Phil gave him a NTC and then specifically decided not to rebuild this past offseason.

    I’m not even worried about the draft pick stuff, since Dolan had already come to the realization that he should not trade first round draft picks before Phil came aboard. That’s, like, the ONE thing he knows.

    I agree that Steve Mills is probably not a great GM, either, but I don’t think he’d be any worse than Jackson. The best thing Jackson has going for him is something Dolan had already decided against doing, which is trading first round picks. But that’s like applauding your dog for not shitting in the house whenever they need to go to the bathroom. It’s, like, the first thing you learn to do – “Don’t trade first round draft picks until you’re already a good team.”

    Huh? Phil gave him a NTC and then specifically decided not to rebuild this past offseason.

    I am assuming by rebuild you mean a full, clear house rebuild. Are you sure that’s even an option under Dolan?

    I’d be fine with just a “trade Melo for picks” deal, which pretty much 99% of NBA GMs would have done by now (including Phil), but they can’t because of the NTC that Phil gave Melo.


    Was that because Phil just gave Melo that deal or because he had to in order to get Melo to resign? Again, I am not sure of the answer here.

    One of the most annoying things about the Chicago game is that it showed how much more cohesive this team is when Melo is playing the four. Porzingis is the future of the Knicks, but in the immediate term, the team actually makes a bit more sense with Noah at the 5 and Melo at the 4. Everyone’s role sort of fits. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see that lineup do well today against Toronto. It just goes to show that the Noah signing made zero sense, as Melo needs to be a 4.

    Seriously, people pretend as if Phil just gave Melo a NTC as a vanity gift. Melo’s agent probably demanded it as precondition to his resigning with the team. He had the same clause in his previous contract with the Knicks.

    I’m sure Melo demanded it. But Melo also clearly wasn’t going to turn down the extra fifty million that the Knicks were offering him over the other teams, so it was a moronic concession. You know a decision is bad when, as soon as it is signed, folks were trying to make excuses for Phil (“Dolan made him do it!”).

    We don’t know the degree of Dolan’s interference with the negotiation, which clearly informed PJ’s positions, as well as the CAA cabal’s relationship and its influence on Dolan. It was not difficult to conclude how bad Melo wanted to be in NYC ( the same reason that I dont think he’ll likely consent to a trade). PJ ( and Dolan )could/should have drawn the line on the NTC. It compromises our rebuilding options tremendously.

    I really think Melo will stay until Phil goes. He doesn’t want to give Phil the satisfaction of being the last man standing.

    I also do not think that Phil has been that awful, but he’s certainly not been good. He’s the best we’ve had in a long time, but that’s a very low bar. It could be worse if he’s gone. Who would Dolan put in charge? He’s mediocre at best, though.

    Phil gets props from me for 1. drafting KP (it was not an obvious pick at the time) and 2. not giving away any #1 picks. Getting Willy was good. Trading THJ for a #1 pick was good, but he dumped the pick (Grant) after only 1 year. Some smaller signings have been good (Kuz, Ron, OQ).

    His truly bad decisions include the NTC and signing Noah to 4 years. Supposedly Dolan gave him 100% control over basketball decisions, and the NTC is a basketball decision. The NTC is an albatross still hanging around Phil’s neck.

    I don’t like the Rose trade at all, but it is not awful given getting Holiday and a #2 pick in a deep draft. He also potentially got cap flexibility, but then trashed it with Noah. Whiffing on Kerr also was bad and embarrassing. I’m okay on Jennings and Lee. Decent values for their contracts, and Lee is very tradeable if desired.

    Agree on PJ assessment. The coming trade deadline could be a tipping point in assessment of PJ. We should be sellers and should we have a decent rest of January run, then we lose the powerful stench of fire sale desperation. If the current losing trend continues, then that path becomes more clear. I’d trade bottom performance ( not making playoffs) for a few years for a shot at competing for at least an ECF. It’s hard as a fan to discern what the real objective is here. To compete to be in a title game, or to make the playoffs as a 6-8 seed and hope for a 1st round victory.

    The thing about the “full rebuild” is that it wouldn’t even be that considering the 2015 Stealth Tank. All we have to do is trade Melo and Rose for whatever they are worth, suck like hell this year for one of the PG prospects and then make some good signings this off season. If we can get young guys and draft picks back for anyone on the roster then you do that. This doesn’t have to be a dragged out process like what’s going on Philly.

    Imagine we draft Ntilikina, get another mid round first and take Rabb or Kennard, then offer Hayward max money and by some fluke he accepts it. Ntilikina, Porzingis, Hernangomez, and Rabb would be the future and Lee, Hayward, O’Quinn and Noah would be our veteran leadership. Hornacek is still in charge and he has a front office executive who knows what he is doing. We can get rid of Phil but keep (and even promote) Gaines because lord knows Phil ain’t getting another front office job. From that point on you try to win as many games as possible and add talent to your already awesome young and exciting corps.

    The Knicks just have to recognize the opportunity in front of them and strike while the iron is hot and the tank is ready to roll.

    The thing about the “full rebuild” is that it wouldn’t even be that considering the 2015 Stealth Tank. All we have to do is trade Melo and Rose for whatever they are worth, suck like hell this year for one of the PG prospects and then make some good signings this off season. If we can get young guys and draft picks back for anyone on the roster then you do that. This doesn’t have to be a dragged out process like what’s going on Philly.

    Totally agreed. If Melo just didn’t have that damned NTC, I’d be absolutely pumped about the future of this team.

    Honestly we can parlay the Melo NTC into an asset if teams are willing. Imagine this trade:

    The Knicks also get back Sacramento’s 1st round pick this year from Chicago and we get Boston/Brooklyn’s 2017 1st round pick while giving Chicago back its 2nd round pick. Boston also gives Chicago the 2018 first round pick and Guerschon Yabusele.

    We would have turned Melo and Kyle O’Quinn into Marcus Smart and two top 12 first round picks in this draft. Boston gets 2 top 15 NBA players to go on a title run with and Chicago gets two great players and a great pick in next year’s draft (and they probably improve) while the Clippers get to team Melo up with his buddy CP3.

    Phil is the symptom. Dolan is the disease.

    Dolan hired Phil just like he hired Isiah and Layden and retained Isiah wellllll past his expiration date. He pushes this win-now mentality and interferes in trades because he thinks he actually knows something about basketball. He fought the sexual harrassment case and humiliated the franchise. He sold the team out to CAA because they represent the Eagles, who his shitty little blues band opened for on their tour. That enslavement to CAA not only resulted in the Barfnani trade and the devotion to Melo but the embarrassing signing of JR’s brother.

    Dolan is a spoiled rich brat who inherited everything he owns and makes terrible decisions with remarkable consistency. He is the epitome of someone who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. He is a joke. He is a cancer.

    Phil will eventually go just like Layden and Isiah. Dolan is forever.

    It’s hard as a fan to discern what the real objective is here. To compete to be in a title game, or to make the playoffs as a 6-8 seed and hope for a 1st round victory.

    I believe that coming into the team prez chair, Jackson’s goal was to figure how to improve the team year by year with few draft picks and a lot of money. We’re seeing now that it’s not that easy to buy your way into a rebuilding team, because generally speaking, 19-22 year-old impactful players are drafted, not available as free agents.

    Aside from the NTC, I generally believe that Jackson has done what he could to improve the amount of talent on the floor year to year. This current mix isn’t working out, and honestly, looking at a 4th straight sub-500 season is a hard thing for many to swallow (regardless of circumstances or long term team benefit). But we can say this: Jackson (purposely or not) has already converted one season to tankmode when Melo got hurt and the writing appeared on the wall, and we got Porzingis out of that. Let’s see how – and what – he does when January finishes playing out.

    I slightly disagree. I think he figured he’d have the team conpetetive in year one and then they would sign two big free agents who would take paycuts to play for the great Phil Jackson.

    @36 Hmmm. Two expiring contracts, freeing up an additional $20mil in cap space by the end of the season, and THREE first-round picks this year (which if I understand correctly would all be potential lottery picks?!?!?). Melo gets LA to play with buddy CP3. Only downside is it turns Boston into an NBA Title contender (they’d have a new Big Three in Thomas, Butler and Griffin). I think we’d need to send something else to Chicago (Kuz? A protected 2018 1st rounder?).

    But that’d set the reset button HARD. And over the course of one summer, the Knicks could finally stock the cupboards with young, impact talent and build the team around them and KP. I’d do it.

    @39 I believe that’s what he thought or hoped for going into ’14-’15. I remember thinking that team could’ve gone .500 and competed for a playoff spot too. But I’m glad he switched up when Melo called it a season due to his injury.

    The sad thing about Phil’s tenure is that he was the one guy who had the gravitas to really do a full rebuild. I bet that Dolan would have let him if Phil put his foot down and insisted on doing things the proper, patient way.

    Phil didn’t do this because he didn’t see that the team needed a full rebuild. He thought he was just gonna Triangle this shit up and start winning right out of the gate. He was on a somewhat better path after the accidental tank that led to the Porzingis pick, but then he made a bunch of more dumb moves.

    I think giving Phil credit for what he has done here is setting the bar laughably low. He has been a run of the mill bad GM. Three losing seasons and a payroll full of long-term contracts to guys over 30… fuck that. That sucks. He won’t fix it, either. He’s bad at this job.

    That’s why I come back to the NTC as the albatross still around Phil’s neck.

    Regardless of why, it is. Maybe this was a concession or requirement from Dolan. Maybe Phil incorrectly thought that Melo could truly be built around, and quickly, that he could take his game to another level (he did say something like that to the press). Maybe he did think that the Knicks could compete that first year until it went bad quickly.

    But by now, it is clear what Melo is and is not.

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