2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks @ Raptors

The Knicks head to Toronto this afternoon to take on the division-leading Raptors.

This will obviously be a tough game, but knowing this team, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Knicks play the Raptors surprisingly well. Melo is much more suited to be a 4 nowadays, so I think he’ll have a good game.

The issue will be defense, of course. Kyle Lowry didn’t do that well against the Knicks last time they played, but he’s also carved the Knicks up in the past.

This stretch of games is going to be the logical make or break point of the season. If they win a few more games than expected, they will be right back into the thick of the shitty Eastern Conference playoff picture. If they lose a lot, then LOGICALLY they should blow the team up. They won’t, but at least they won’t ADD to the team this year.

Let’s at least hope for a fun game!

Let’s go, Knicks?

109 replies on “2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks @ Raptors”

The worst part about all of this is how I cannot even get myself slightly interested in this game. Thanks Phil!

@8: …or not. Raps have pushed ahead major this quarter. 7 made 3s so far.

Not being within 10 when both Melo and Rose are having good games is a great sign for the tank!

Good thing Rose and Hornaceck talked defense. We’re on pace to hold them to under 140. Baby steps.

Seriously, fuck Derick Rose.

So like, isn’t Terrence Ross’s only goal on offense is to hit 3s? He’s 4-5. Don’t you game plan for that?

It’s a rhetorical question: the perimeter D is too poor to have an effect even if they did.

@14 I said it in another thread: Rose doesn’t realize this team doesn’t have the same defensive talent as his heyday Bulls squads (and he wasn’t their best defender). And he can’t expect Horny to be like Thibs. They’re different coaches.

This team without even a mediocre KP is a bottom 5 team probably

This is the classic “allow 100 points in three quarters” Knicks that I know and love.

Just don’t put Ron in and let the team go on a good run. You know what will happen then.

lol and people want to make the playoffs so we can get 4 games of this shit

Hornacek should scream at them the whole next practice like a stereotypical drill sergeant from some cliche boot camp movie.



At what pount do we accept that it has nothing to do with effort or coaching, but simple lack of talent?

I said it months ago: the Knicks have a single legitimate NBA starting-caliber player in Melo (perhaps not anymore). Maybe two, if you count Porzingis. There’s not much talent beyond that.

This is Jackson’s creation and for that he must be fired.

Here comes the pointless fourth quarter run after the other team stopped caring because they were ahead by 35

Thank God Rambis knows all there is to know about NBA defense. Can you imagine how many points we’d give up if he didn’t?

Thank God Rambis knows all there is to know about NBA defense. Can you imagine how many points we’d give up if he didn’t?

All of them. All the points.

This team still has talent (allegedly). How do they let themselves get embarrassed game after game like this?

This is several times this season this team has made a pointless fourth quarter run to lose by a somewhat respectable score in a game that was actually a total blowout.

Baker was plus 19 and has never been searched on Steve mills’ find my iPhone app. Just sayin.

Phil is only marginally better as GM to Sam Hinckie, and the only way to get rid of Rambis is to get rid of Phil, and those two will not resign

Dolan should intervene, hire Charles Barkley as GM, at least it will be funny

Awesome loss. More shitty defense after Rose talked so much shit about playing better team defense. My only regret is that we were blown out too soon. Melo and Rose should have been forced to play in the 4th quarter.

The last time I said something negative about P&T, a handful of users rushed to its defense. I just finished reading the comment section of their game thread and just lol at the delusion. They can’t comprehend that a team with this much “talent” is this bad and are putting all the blame on Hornacek. They think Melo is one of the best players in the NBA and that Derrick Rose still has it.

smh at this fan base.


P&T is a shithole. The moron who runs the site won’t tolerate any dissent or discussion. They basically epitomize the general stupidity of a fanbase that continues to financially and emotionally support the worst product any NBA team has put out this century. Thank goodness for a site like this where alternative opinions aren’t marginalized and debate is encouraged.

I’m a Mets fan and I try to hang on the SB Nation Mets blog Amazin’ Avenue, but it’s pretty bad. I wish there was a KB equivalent for Mets baseball.

idk the owner of P&T but i always thought that their mods were fine

im not a regular though

P&T is fine. If KB had as many posters as P&T then the comments would look a lot different here.

I post on both sites but I’m favoring this one right now because of the Pro tank agenda.

I actually like Amazin Avenue.

And P&T has way too many Melo worshippers over there. They’re just like Ambro says, they can’t fathom why a team that spends the majority of its budget on him, Rose and Noah sucks this bad.

I’m a Mets fan and I try to hang on the SB Nation Mets blog Amazin’ Avenue, but it’s pretty bad. I wish there was a KB equivalent for Mets baseball.

What? Amazin Avenue is awesome.

I miss MetsGeek. That place was the best. AA has a handful of extremely annoying posters that ruin it for me.

Good thing here is that the tank continues. The fanbase is in for a rude awakening and the leaders on this team won’t have shit to say after losing streak that is about to ensue. Its going to be beautiful.

I am cancelling my Team Knicks League Pass this week, switching to ace streams.. not worth seeing bad defense in HD

Can you believe I couldn’t even be bothered to look at the game? This team without KP and with Rose at the helm is unwatchable.

BTW. P&T is good and has some reeeeally good commenters (our lavor included. The guy is really ok). They just seem to have, on average, a lower understanding of basic basketball principles.

watching Nets vs Rockets, Quincy Acy is on 10 day contract with Nets and playing with more effort than the whole Knicks team

“If they feel like my time in New York is over I guess that’s a conversation we should have.”

(Randy “Macho Man” Savage voice)


Carmelo seemed to suggest that what Phil Jackson's friend, Charley Rosen, wrote about him may be Phil's thoughts as well.— Frank Isola (@FisolaNYDN) January 15, 2017

Carmelo: "If they feel like my time in New York is over I guess that’s a conversation we should have."— Frank Isola (@FisolaNYDN) January 15, 2017

Melo is a little bitch to the end. He knows that this team is about to embark upon a major losing streak and doesn’t want to stick around for the aftermath to answer for why another team lead by him failed miserably. Good, now that Phil knows Melo’s signaling an intention to talk trade the former should allow the latter to hang on the hotseat for awhile so his desperation can increase with every loss.

Now comes the part where Melo does the opposite thing he did when he came here, which is to insist his new team does not give up too many assets to acquire him. Because he has veto power over any trade. Because Phil. Because Knicks.

I’m all for the “ham sandwich” package if anybody offers us that.


He’s going to try to screw us going out the way he screwed us coming in because we’re a punk franchise that allow players like him to exploit us. I don’t blame Phil. That NTC was probably the only way he would resign. I say the proper approach is to make him sweat it out and become desperate for a trade. Make his stay so desperate he’ll want to play ball.

@73 you can still blame Phil. You let him walk if you don’t like the terms.


And then we get nothing to show for trading Galinari, Chandler, Mozgov and two first round draft picks for Melo? Hell, naw.

I mean if Melo is playing hardball Phil might be willing to bench him because he’s an arrogant enough prick to not get bossed around by other people (why he left Chicago.)

Bad character traits sometimes have silver linings.

So, which teams might actually want this guy? He’d probably make the Celtics worse. Maybe the Clippers?


We could go full out nuclear option. It would make Phil look like a total ass but would probably be effective. We could leak badmouth rumors about him to the press, bench him, not run plays for him, trade Rose. Basically we could make his life here a living Hell.


Word is that he’ll accept trades to Cleveland or LAC. Both teams are controlled by his BFFs Lebron and CP3. Their word will have pull. Problem is that they won’t have anything of substance to immediately trade. I would try to work a three way deal. Get Boston involved.

Only delusional Knicks fans would believe trading Melo would get the Knicks picks or young players.

I got news for you: everybody in the NBA knows Melo is nearly finished as an impactful player. The Knicks will need to PAY other teams to get Melo off their hands.

It won’t be pretty. Stop the silly dreams where we get assets for Melo’s carcass.


As PT Barnum once infamously said, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”

I love how dumb fans still believe Phil Jackson is not responsible for this mess – specially enjoy reading how he is given credit for anything remotely good, but when he has blundered (most if the time) it’s because Dolan ‘forced’ him!!!

Gave Melo the max plus a NTC? It wasn’t him – it was Dolan, who makes every Knicks decision.

Drafted Porzingis with the accidental pick? It was him – not Dolan, who doesn’t make every Knicks decision.

Derrick Rose on Knicks being 18-23 after 41 games: "I haven’t been paying attention to the record. I just know that we have been losing.”— Frank Isola (@FisolaNYDN) January 16, 2017

It’s looking like a power struggle between Melo and Phil with Dolan having to decide who stays and who goes. Phil will be fired before Melo is traded.

A Bulls fan just suggested this in /r/NBA:

Rondo + Mirotic + Bulls 2017 1st for Carmelo.

It’ll never happen but a boy could dream.

Melo’s salary makes him insanely difficult to move even if he, and another team, wanted to. Color me skeptical but that would be awesome.

If the Knicks are able to get ANYTHING of value for Carmelo, it would be the first time the Knicks have done that with a star since they traded Starks and Oakley for Camby and Sprewell. There have been small trades like the Nazr Mohammed trade and the Q-Rich + Nate for Kurt Thomas trade, but everyone else, we just wait until they’re worthless.

We should try to get something sooner rather than later. If the NTC allowed us to get something of value for Melo than it was worth it.

Word is that Orlando is interested in Dragic. Shouldn’t we be in on that by offering Jennings or Rose?

Awhile ago I read that Miami was wanting a 1st rounder in any deal for Dragic. No one was biting.

@83: if he truly is ready to be traded, he can be traded. Phil will need to be creative and prolly get multiple teams involved. Washed up players don’t avg 22 ppg (I know I know I just used PPG on an advanced stats blog just hear me out), regardless of how inefficient they may be (and I make this argument bc his TS% is about the same as its been the past 2+ seasons). And you could convince a team that a better defensive scheme can either motivate him to give more effort on that side or disguise his weakenesses. Maybe.

The 4 team trade I posted on the other thread is what we should be aiming for.


Again we would get Sacramento’s pick this season and the Brooklyn pick this year, while Chicago gets Yabusele, their 2017 2nd round pick back AND Brooklyn’s 2018 pick. I think everyone leaves happy with this trade.

We shouldn’t trade anyone off this tank fest unless we’re getting back assets (cap space, good contracts, and draft picks). Derrick Rose is the leader of the tank so he can’t leave.

I’d love that for the Knicks, but I don’t think Chicago goes for that. And, reportedly, the Clips will not discuss dealing Griffin.

Right now, no. In mid-February, probably yes. I’d still try to work on Minny to get Rubio.

Minny’s not giving an extra year of Rubio up for a contract that expires this season.

I almost feel giddy. IT’S ONE STEP CLOSER TO HAPPENING, FOLKS. Full steam ahead!

The more important thing, I think, with the Isola news, is that Isola reported both that Melo said (basically) “If Phil wants me gone, then he should come talk to me about that” while also telling Isola that he had no interest in waiving the no-trade clause. This is the same old nonsense. He’s never going to leave. Never.


Its happening, this is how it begins. Melo is hinting that they need to talk via the media.

as a general rule I’m not a big isola fan…just found him initially to be very abrasive…

thought he did a great job polishing his image on ‘around the horn’ on espn…

currently, it sounds like he’s on a one man mission to make a lot people’s dreams come true…

not exactly sure what life after melo will be like, but, we definitely need better leadership in the locker room and out on the floor…

at this point, have to believe addition by subtraction removing anthony and rose…

hopefully, we can get some picks (too much to expect 1st’s), expiring contracts and somebody’s back up pg…

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