Knicks Morning News (2017.01.08)

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks fall to streaking Pacers, 123-109
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 8:28:29 PM)

    Jeff Teague and Paul George led six Pacers in double figures with 19 points each and Indiana used a 53-32 rebounding edge to defeat the Knicks 123-109 in Indianapolis Saturday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks at Pacers
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 5:36:16 PM)

    The Knicks head to Indiana to play the Pacers at 7 p.m. on Saturday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Ron Baker keeps cool during crunch time against Bucks
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 1:09:21 PM)

    Ron Baker may not be as explosive or agile as Chasson Randle, but he too offers something extremely valuable to this team.

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony reportedly dealing with ailing shoulder
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 11:50:37 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony has been dealing with constant shoulder pain, which will continue to bother him as long as he does not sit out, he told Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News.

  • [NYTimes] Pacers 123, Knicks 109: Jeff Teague Keeps Pacers Rolling, Past Knicks
    (Sunday, January 08, 2017 4:47:25 AM)

    With 19 points and 8 assists from Teague, Indiana extended its season-best winning streak to five games. The Knicks lost their seventh in eight games.

  • [NYTimes] Sunday Routine: How Caris LeVert, a Rookie With the Brooklyn Nets, Spends His Sundays
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 10:08:01 AM)

    Mr. LeVert, who moved to Brooklyn from Columbus, Ohio, has a busy team schedule but still finds time to explore the city, and many teammates live nearby.

  • [NYDN] Knicks defense once again absent in blowout loss to Pacers
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 8:33:04 PM)

    The Knicks better hope this is close to rock bottom.

  • [NYDN] Earl Monroe and how the NBA union is finally helping him & peers
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 4:33:37 PM)

    “Every time I move I can feel another surgery coming on,” says Earl Monroe, the former Knick known to most as “Pearl.”

  • [ESPN] Melo playing through ‘bad’ shoulder injury
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 12:34:15 PM)

    Melo playing through ‘bad’ shoulder injury

  • [NYPost] Westchester Knicks guard has workout with 76ers
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 7:28:49 PM)

    INDIANAPOLIS — With undrafted rookie Ron Baker solidifying his place as a Knick after Friday’s heroics in Milwaukee, Westchester Knicks point guard Chasson Randle has a workout Sunday with the 76ers, according to an NBA source. The Sixers have been looking for perimeter help to offset their glut of big men. The Knicks had many…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis sounds the alarm after Knicks’ latest flop
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 4:39:02 PM)

    INDIANAPOLIS — When the normally optimistic Kristaps Porzingis sounds the alarm, that means trouble. By the time coach Jeff Hornacek tabbed rookie guard Ron Baker to start the fourth quarter at Bankers Life Field House, it was way too late this time. The Knicks were down by 26 points and Hornacek already had his eye…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo tries to downplay shoulder injury that won’t go away
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 4:00:15 PM)

    INDIANAPOLIS — Carmelo Anthony said nothing has changed, and he still is playing through a sore right shoulder. Anthony said he doesn’t believe his lingering right-shoulder injury the club announced he had last month, and forced him to miss the Golden State contest on Dec. 13, will lead him to miss a series of games….

  • [NYPost] Will Knicks coach make easy or risky move with Ron Baker?
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 10:56:28 AM)

    INDIANAPOLIS — Now that the losing streak is over, Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek had a new dilemma: how to divvy up minutes at point guard after undrafted rookie Ron Baker led an unlikely fourth-quarter comeback in Milwaukee that ended the Knicks’ six-game slide Friday. Derrick Rose, whom Hornacek had critiqued earlier Friday, sat out the…

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks have little left in loss to Pacers
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 11:42:37 PM)


  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony plans to play through shoulder woes
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 8:25:32 PM)

    INDIANAPOLIS — Carmelo Anthony’s right shoulder is hampering him, but he said he will continue to try to play through it.

  • [NY Newsday] Derrick Rose wants more stress on defense
    (Saturday, January 07, 2017 5:26:35 PM)

    Derrick Rose believes the Knicks take their ability to score for granted sometimes, and that coach Jeff Hornacek should stress defense so much that the player can’t stand hearing it anymore.

  • 118 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.08)”

    Since the Lakers game where Melo aggravated his shoulder we have been 3-10. The game after Rose started having his back issues.

    In that stretch after his injury(including the the Suns game) Rose has had a .468 TS%. Melo has had a .511 TS% in that stretch including the game where he hurt his shoulder.

    I mean we’re a better team than the Wizards and Bulls so I still think we find ourselves in the playoffs, but that’s only if Detroit doesn’t realize they’re a good team.

    The tank will be for naught if we don’t get another 1st round pick.

    Also in the Porzingis article above.

    Porzingis said he never felt the Knicks were jelling, even when they were 14-10, instead getting by on talent, and he sounded as uncertain as he has this season in terms of their future prospects.

    “In the moment we were four games out of .500, I said it — I don’t see ourselves as that good of a team yet,’’ Porzingis said in his season’s most candid remarks. “We were still growing. We were winning games, but we still had a lot to learn. It was a good moment based on our talent, but we weren’t there yet and now it’s showing. We got to figure this out and keep growing as a team. It’s not coming together yet. It’s frustrating.’’

    Describe a feasible scenario in which the Knicks surpass the Celtics in the next 10 years. Couldn’t think of one? Me neither. Go be with your families.

    Just to lay it out, the Celts have:

    The 7th best record in the NBA
    The fourth-highest scorer in the NBA who is also 27
    A four-game win streak
    The #3, #16, and #23 picks from last year’s draft who are still young and developing
    The Nets’ high, high, high draft picks in 2017 AND 2018
    Plus many other first rounders in years to come

    The celtics are sitting pretty. They should make a win now move.
    What are they missing besides melo ?

    With the revelation of Melo’s shoulder woes, I think Phil should go into wholesale mode and move as much as he can while getting younger players and/or picks. Without a healthy Melo, the cupboard is almost bare. No one’s gonna take Noah, and if I were Phil, I’d make KP(obviously)/Willy/Cheese/Baker/KOQ untouchable and hurry and get Randle on the big league squad. We go nowhere without a healthy Melo, whether fans like him or not. I hope Phil recognizes this. If Melo refuses to waive his NTC, then Phil and company needs to shut him down until he’s healthy so that we can really evaluate the youngins. Let those guys run and gun as much as possible and see who is compatible with KP moving forward.

    All the players you listed as untouchable are the only assets we have in a trade. Maybe Lee is on that list

    Getting something in return for
    Melo is probably harder than getting him to waive his NTC.

    He is pretty much finished, in spite of the occasional flashy scoring game.

    @8 and @11..agreed and agreed. It sucks that our best assets right now are either too valuable to trade, or not valuable enough to get us something worthwhile in return. Let’s just hope that there are teams out there who still value Melo & Rose or Jennings.

    I have the Philadelphia game on Wednesday circled on my calendar. If we lose to them, the season is going into full on crisis mode and we’ll probably make some moves.

    Guys, we just might be bad enough to net a top 10 pick even if we stand pat.

    I think rose is a valuable weapon for a contender and he’s expiring.
    I don’t who would match

    I also missed the game last night, but I’ve read that Baker again played the entire 4th quarter and the team looked much better while he was there. Temper that, though, with the fact that Indiana was probably in garbage time mode much of the quarter with a huge lead that slowly dwindled.

    Still, the guy definitely improves the playmaking and D when he’s in there from the low standards of Rose and Jennings. Jennings did have a relatively hot night scoring, but those are few and far between.

    I see that Rose again is quoted as blaming the team’s trust in each other on the defensive end. Of course, what he and Melo cannot understand is that those 2, and Jennings, are a huge part of the lack of trust b/c they are terrible defenders. Melo leaves guys wide open often, and Rose/BJ regularly get beat badly off the dribble or screens, forcing someone to cover for them…also leaving someone wide open.

    I doubt that Phil looks to make a major deal this month. Maybe next month, unless something good falls into their laps. I really worry that Phil is pressured to make the playoffs this year and thus will make a bad deal for a crappy name veteran while giving up a #1 and/or a young guy. I hope I’m wrong.

    Unless Melo waives the NTC, I’m hoping that Rose, being an expiring, can be dealt somewhere for something of value.

    It sucks that our best assets right now are either too valuable to trade, or not valuable enough to get us something worthwhile in return.

    I think the key to an effective, painless rebuild is to abandon the terrible practice of chasing max-salary players. The Knicks are not one or two stars away from getting a ring.

    They can be much better *immediately* by getting rid of Melo and Rose (we are stuck with Noah, Lee and Thomas!) and replacing them with young solid role players. By ‘role players’ I mean players like Shaun Livingston, for example, who produce in a low-key manner at a reasonable cost and are part of the core.

    Then, when we have a team winning 48-50 games with Porzingis as the anchor, we can go for a star preferably in FREE AGENCY (no more giving up picks in stupid trades).

    I could root for something like that and it would only take a couple of years to develop the core.

    Yea..I don’t think we should chase another “star” player either. Unless of course, it’s CP3 or Curry. I wouldn’t care who we get back if Phil is able to move Melo and Rose as long as it allows us to keep cap & draft flexibility. That said, I also wouldn’t be mad if Phil uses that possible cap space on Patty Mills & Gordon Hayward. Hayward is probably gonna break the bank if he opts out though. But it is clear that the team needs to make a decision on direction now while the team isn’t as good as advertised with “star” players. And that direction needs to be rebuilding around KP

    “In the moment we were four games out of .500, I said it — I don’t see ourselves as that good of a team yet,’’ Porzingis said in his season’s most candid remarks. “We were still growing. We were winning games, but we still had a lot to learn. It was a good moment based on our talent, but we weren’t there yet and now it’s showing. We got to figure this out and keep growing as a team. It’s not coming together yet. It’s frustrating.’

    Isn’t it amazing that KP is already a better and more accountable leader than either Melo or Rose?

    You have to cut the head off the snake. There can’t be any ambiguity. If Phil were to trade Rose away you can bet your asses Melo would ask out of this team and waive his NTC. The Nets are asking teams for two draft picks for Robin Lopez’s injury prone ass. We can get something for Melo, it just won’t be a major haul.

    If that is the case, then look to trade Rose ASAP!

    I think Melo could still command something nice back, like at least a #1 pick or good young player. I still see Boston as an excellent fit if they do not get Millsap. But, the NTC. The thing is, Boston would be a great fit for Melo himself.

    The best case on Rose would be to use his expiring status to at team looking to move a guy with multiple years left. Thus, guys like Dragic or Rubio come to mind. However, you are taking on years. And, those teams probably don’t do that trade unless the Knicks kick in something else. Therein lies danger…

    I would look to trade Rose for an expiring contract and a pick. Any team that might want to match that to have a guy who can come off the bench and get to the basket at will, would be the team I deal with. As it stands, I can see a team like Cleveland (we’d have to take their 2019 first round pick) as a potential suitor. I bet we could even fleece a team like Sacramento into accepting that deal now that they want to give Cousins a 200 million dollar contract and want to convince him to stay.

    Unfortunately the only way I see us selling everyone off is if Melo demands a trade or if he has to shut it down/get surgery for his shoulder. Maybe Phil should throw some more shade at him in the media to push him over the edge.

    I wonder is Sacramento is dumb enough to part with some of its young talent to land Rose? I am sure they can get him in FA, but this way he’d be on the team with Cousins for half a season deciding if he likes it there or not.

    Melo needing to be shut down might give Phil an out with Dolan to tank the rest of the way. Of course, that could not happen until after the All Star break.

    I looked at Sacramento, but they don’t really come close to enough expirings to match Rose in your scenario. There are guys like Gay and Barnes who would work, but they have player options. Then, there’s guys like Afflalo, who they would love to dump, but he’s got another year.

    Maybe a three way with Minny and Sac? I read somewhere that Minny might want Gay? That seems silly to me, but if so, some sort of deal where the principals are Rose to Sac, Gay and fodder to Minny, and Rubio and fodder to Knicks. Probably a pick or two flying around somewhere.

    I hope you’re right and the Knicks can get expirings and a pick for Rose, but I doubt it.

    We could do this trade plus Sacto’s first and our two second rounders:

    is that a pie in the sky trade or the are the Kings that dumb? I don’t care about taking on a non expiring if we’re fire-selling this shit, especially when it’s someone shitty like Rudy Gay–we get assets back and better draft position if he really crashes and burns.

    As far as Boston goes, it would be a great fit for Melo, lifestyle-wise–it’s very close to NY, and that would probably enable LaLa and his kid to stay in NY where their lives are considering he’s never around during the season anyway. Buy an apartment in Boston for the regular season, live in NY during the offseason besides workouts. Easy.

    This team really has a rather empty cupboard in terms of long-term assets. They have Porzingis and Hernangomez, and that’s about it. Kuz is a decent bench piece but he’s 27 and already at his ceiling.

    This team already has $74M of payroll committed to what would be an incredibly weak team on paper for the 2018-2019 season:

    Melo, age 34: $27.9M
    Noah, age 33: $18,5M
    Lee, age 33: $12.2M
    Lance, age 30: $7.1M
    Porzingis, age 23: $5.6M
    Willy, age 24: $1.4M
    Plumlee, age 26: $1.0M

    Does anybody really want to watch that core try to compete two years from now? I mean, does that team right there plus a few free agents and a couple of mid-first round draft guys like Bam Adebayo have any chance whatsoever of being anything other than terrible?

    Blow this shit up. For the love of all things decent.

    Kings are the perfect team to exploit. Their management is stupid, their ownership is desperate to keep its one star, and its record is on the cusp of playoff contention in the Western Conference (9th overall). But the problem, as ClashFan pointed out, is the issue of mismatching contracts. It would be hard for them to contend and give up guys like Gay.

    I’d do that trade in a heartbeat. Gay could either be flipped for something else somewhere, or he likely just opts out after the season. Wouldn’t the Knicks then have to cut 2 players? It would be an incredibly short-sighted trade for Sac.

    Yes, Boston is a perfect fit for Melo. He’d be for sure in the playoffs, maybe as a 3 seed.


    Silky, I was just about to find a way to make a Rose trade work for Sacramento’s young talent. That deal would be a pie in the sky situation for us. Can we throw in Lance Thomas if they want?

    We could also do this trade, with or without Skal. (BJ is a placeholder since I can’t use Lance in the trade machine until Jan 15th–really annoying, actually.) I don’t know if we could actually get Sacto’s first, but I bet even if we didn’t swap any picks between those two teams we could still pull off the trade as is if Sacto is desperate to keep Cousins.


    If we make the “middle rounds” I think we need to go after Og Anunoby if Ntlikina isn’t there. He has insane defensive potential with a 7’6″ wingspan at SF guarding all kinds of players larger and smaller than he is. He can’t handle or pass the ball much, but he’s got crazy athletic ability and real promise as a catch and shoot guy. He and KP on this team would be a terrific defensive core to build around.


    That deal has the appeal of separating Cousins away from Matt Barnes. It could work.

    Actually, I wonder if including LT might make the trade more likely to be a realistic possibility (gotta add 7m in salary from Sac, though). I believe he is shooting 40% from three, so they might see him as a viable replacement for some of Gay’s minutes.

    Gay is going to opt out, so they want to move him for something.

    You want a real unrealistic pie in the sky scenario?? Melo willing to opt out of the NTC for certain teams, and one of the teams is Sacramento! Ka-chink!

    If we miss on PGs we should be drafting either Miles Bridges, Anunoby, or Rodions Kurucs because we need a SF almost as desperately as we need guards (we need any young player that doesn’t play PF/C.)

    I think the salaries work in the second trade machine even if you include Lance over BJ (he’s 1.3m or something more than BJ) but I can’t say for sure until January 14th. BJ was just a placeholder because his salary is similar in value to LT (Sacto wouldn’t want BJ anyway if Rose were in the trade unless they traded Collison to us too.)

    From a basketball perspective, why would Boston want Melo? They’re already a pretty good offensive team (#7 overall) and they’re weak defensively (#20 overall). If anything, they need a banger who can get lots of rebounds and play interior D. I just don’t see how Melo improves their team at all.

    Okay, Phil does Silky’s deal, then flips Gay and a 2nd rounder to Minny for Rubio. Can the Knicks just release Matt Barnes?


    I don’t either, but Ainge sometimes hunts big trades. Sure, he often hits on them, but the C’s aren’t infallible. Melo is still perceived as productive across the league, so there’s a possibility of fleecing Ainge or, especially, Doc Rivers. He should be traded ASAP, because his injury sidelines him and his trade value torpedoes even more coming into next season.


    I still maintain that a three-way trade with LAC and Boston is the best way to move Melo now. But it takes the Clippers being willing to part with Blake Griffin.

    Yeah, for some time now, there’s been reports that Ainge wants a big time “star” player to add to his group of young, scrappy guys. That’s no guarantee that he’d want Melo. Rumors are that they are hunting Millsap.


    Poor Boston, trying to reconstruct the 2012 Hawks the way we tried to reconstruct the 2011 Bulls. Good luck on that one.

    What this team really needs is a creative GM who can solve several problems at once and put the team on a long-term path to success. Phil Jackson is not that GM. Not by a long shot. He has not shown the willingness or ability to make the kind of moves this team needs.

    You want to fix the team, the first thing you need to do is phire Phil. He’s a phailure.

    Silky isn’t O’Quinn the best player and the best contract in this deal? Why would you give up on him? WCS hasn’t shown enough to justify this trade.

    Silky isn’t O’Quinn the best player and the best contract in this deal? Why would you give up on him? WCS hasn’t shown enough to justify this trade.

    O’Quinn’s enormous productivity per dollar is what ties this trade (and probably any other possible trade we can make with any team that doesn’t want Rose exclusively) together. I love O’Quinn, but we have 2 years left on his deal, by the end of which he’ll be 29. We’re getting his prime years, and he will likely be paid market value on his next deal. We are also not competing for playoff success if we start building for the future, so his productivity per dollar is wasted here. If we keep O’Quinn we will in all likelihood sign him for a contract commensurate to his worth as he begins to go on the undesirable side of the age curve or we let him go for nothing. Best to let him go now, if it nets us 2-3 young, cost controlled players–especially if Sacto is dumb enough to include their first in the deal.

    Buy low, sell high? It’s not a one for one trade. You’re clearing Rose and getting some young talent back.

    OQ has been good, but I still think he struggles defending true centers. We’re stuck with Noah, and KP and Willy are here, too. I’ve got no problem trading OQ if getting a #1 pick or a promising young player or two back. The Knicks need to upgrade at point and wing.

    No tanking please. This team is too good and has a common sense two track approach. Rose, Melo, Noah, Lee, Holiday,OQ, Jennings for now. KP as the bridge. KP, Willy, Baker, NDour, and Plumlee for later. Plus a great draft ahead of us. It’s sunny in St. Maarten today and you guys need a sunnier disposition. Or root for the Sixers.

    This team is too good

    17-20, 37-win pace, 15-22 Pythag record, 3-10 over last 13 games, #16 offense, #26 defense

    has a common sense two track approach

    Be mediocre in the short term and terrible in the long term

    KP, Willy, Baker, NDour, and Plumlee for later

    Three of those guys will probably not have meaningful NBA careers

    Plus a great draft ahead of us

    In which we pick mid-round because of our “win now” 37 win-team and miss out on all of the impact talent

    Or root for the Sixers.

    Not a bad idea really because they will soon be regularly kicking our asses

    STOP IT! None of those deals are happening. Remember the team said it might consider a minutes cap for KP after injury? Well, KP played 30 then 34 minutes on consecutive nights. So much for that. The medical staff reports directly to Dolan so that means he’s all in on the present for whatever reason (Melo/CAA or just wants team to make playoffs after drought). The only major trade which might occur is Dragic for Rose and Willy and/or 1st round pick if Rose’s performance doesn’t improve.

    I could see a Dragic trade happening, because he meets many of the Knicks’ criteria:
    -Old (age 30 season)
    -Terrible contract
    -Terrible contract that runs through 2020

    He’s a perfect Knick!

    I don’t think we should tank. I think if we tried, the worst we would finish is about 10th. I think we should play the young guys more, play to win, playoff experience would be of more value than picking 11th instead of 15th.

    I don’t think Melo is done or worthless. I think he needs to accept a lesser role and change his play accordingly. He doesn’t show any willingness to do this (if he’s even been asked).

    But, again, for anyone saying trade him…..I’d like to see a realistic trade that matches $$, gives us back value or picks, but not salary past this year. I don’t think that trade exists.

    A minutes cap for KP could possibly be 35 minutes. That might be enough to Stealth Ntank the team.

    What’s with this obsession with not taking on long term salary? It’s the easiest way we’ll get legit assets. So what if we take on, say, Jamal Crawford’s four year contract? If we’re trading Melo, we’re doing a 3-4 year rebuild where we retool around KP and young assets. A long term bad contract will only help us do that by adding to the loss column when the losses don’t really have any opportunity cost.

    There is no benefit for our young ones to being Cleveland’s first round punching bag.

    Taking on long-term salary to acquire assets is fine. That won’t happen. We will GIVE UP assets to take on long-term salary. Because Knicks.

    Playoff experience might be severely overrated. I don’t think us getting smacked around by the bottle flippers will benefit KP or Willy in the long run.

    Might be more demoralizing than anything.


    I think playoff experience would be valuable only if young guys are in their established roles. What’s the use of watching from the bench as Derrick Rose throw up floaters en route to a first round exit?

    If merely capturing the 8th seed with this roster isn’t enough proof to our decision makers and Melo that we need to rebuild, maybe getting humiliated by Cleveland is.

    Here are the best Melo trades I could make work. Not sure any are great:
    1. Melo to Bos for Amir Johnson, Zeller (after 1/15) and Jerebko, plus 1 of their 1st round picks. Would Bos do this? Maybe without the pick….they can get a lot for those picks at the deadline or draft.
    2. Melo to Bos for Rondo and Taj Gibson and a pick. Rondo has 1 less year, but is worthless.
    3. Melo to Mia for Dragic (1 more year than Melo) and Derrick Williams.
    4. Melo to Orlando for Jeff Green, Jodie Meeks (both in last year), Hezonja, and 2 2nd rounders. Salary dump plus a talented young player who has done nothing. Plus, Meeks can’t kill us any more.
    5. Melo to Tor for Demare Carroll and…..fuck it, Toronto’s not going to screw up a good thing.
    6. Melo to the clips for Rivers and Crawford, who both have 2 more yrs, which we wouldn’t do.
    7. Melo to Memphis for Chandler Parson’s and a 1. Parsons has 1 more year then Melo
    8. Melo and O’Quinn to Utah for Favors, Dante Exum, Trey Lyles, and a first round pick. They get OQ and his value contract, we get 2 young players, including a PG. They rename the team to “slow Jazz”

    For every other team I looked at, they would have no interest in Melo (GS, Den, Cle, Dal, SA), they don’t have short term salaries, or their only ST salaries are at positions we don’t need (Brooklyn). That’s it.

    A minutes cap for KP could possibly be 35 minutes. That might be enough to Stealth Ntank the team.

    No way KP, returning from a foot injury, should have been playing 34 minutes when he just played 30 minutes the night before. If there is a cap in place, it’s very “flexible” especially if the team is hovering in 9th or 10th place.

    I could see a Dragic trade happening, because he meets many of the Knicks’ criteria

    It makes perfect sense if your primary goal is to make the playoffs. Dragic is waay better than Rose as of this writing and apparently is available via trade. If Rose is playing like this at the deadline, that trade probably happens.

    BTW Jerian Grant’s WS/48 is almost double Rose’s. Who knew? Give Grant regular minutes and his performance improves. Where have we witnessed that before? Oh yeah, when he was a starter for the Knicks. The rich irony in all of this is that the NYK probably would have been in a better position to make the playoffs (and better position for the future also) if they hadn’t traded for Rose or signed Noah. The best that could be said for all this is that maybe we get a lottery pick this summer that we wouldn’t have had if we had not traded for Rose or signed Noah! Success through failure – hey it happened after Phil’s first year.

    I would be utterly shocked if Melo okayed a trade to any of those locations. I think you can maybe move him to Cleveland and the Clippers.

    You wanted “realistic” Melo trades. The first problem is getting him to waive the NTC. Realistically, he’s going nowhere. I do think that if he would, though, that Boston would be the best hope. There is a good fit there for him and the Knicks, but really only if Ainge gives up that top pick, which he might not be willing to do.

    Our trade talk is all just fun, a way to pass the time while cooped inside on a freezing day.

    2.5 more years of Melo.
    3.5 more years of Noah.
    2.5 more years of Phil Jackson.


    2.5 more years of Melo.
    3.5 more years of Noah.
    2.5 more years of Phil Jackson.


    It’s worse; you forgot to add:
    4 more years of Trump.

    Did anyone see the Deadspin article about the amateurs trying to make it to the Erie D-League team?

    The article says there was a writer from Knickerblogger. Who was it? Cronin? Kuryko? jon abbey?

    (P.S. I just checked Rose’s WP48 for the year. A perfect zero!)

    I can’t imagine Ainge wanting Melo in any imaginable trade scenario. Ainge is smart.

    It’s worse; you forgot to add:
    4 more years of Trump.

    That’s a good thing. Trump is a Knicks fan. Maybe he’ll call Putin and tell him to order his intelligence services to hack the NBA draft and ensure the Knicks always get the best possible pick in the lottery. Then again, maybe I’m just as biased and delusional as most of the media. 🙂

    reub will count the KBer who tried out for Erie as one of the Knicks’ great assets

    Theo will say that Jax/Dolan/Isiah will give the KBer the mid-level exception

    2.5 more years of Melo.
    3.5 more years of Noah.
    2.5 more years of Phil Jackson.


    “6.5 more years of Melo”.

    I corrected for you.

    I totally expect a Kobeish contract to end his career here.

    I think the Knicks are going to suck next year, and that Melo might exercise his ETO after they win 31 games.

    I dream big.

    Nah, I think Melo is a business man above everything else.

    Sure, he would be happy winning a ring somewhere.

    But I doubt that winning a chip at 35 being the 4th banana will do any big wonders for his brand.

    He will try to retire as the franchise player of the team.

    Retired jersey, points record and this kind of stuff.

    I think you guys missed the point of my possible trades post. I know he has a NTC that he probably won’t waive. Many are posting that if only he didn’t have the NTC, we’d have an opportunity to deal him, either for picks or young players. My point is, even if he waives the NTC, we would not realistically get much back. Most teams don’t trade 2 1st rounders for an overpaid star with declining skills, unless he’s from Italy

    I remember Cavan writing about the tryout, and how it started by running figure 8 laps around the gym with their hands up for like 10 straight minutes, and how it sounded easy, but it was torture after a few minutes. I miss his writing, and Silverman’s

    KP is the money maker now. Wouldn’t be so sure about Melo getting whatever ridiculous amount his max is.

    I so disagree with these prognostications. Melo, above all else, is prideful and very sensitive to the public perception of his play. He stays here on a losing team, while being paid max dollars as he hogs the ball and physically declines and there will be the kind of public uproar in the press that he won’t be able to stand. He’s running out of excuses and neither he nor the MSG people can hide it anymore. I say he leaves before wearing out his stay. The one thing his brand needs more than anything else is a championship run to shut his detractors up.

    I don’t think he’s gone this year. Maybe next year if he’s healthy by the deadline.

    one, read right after the other…that was gold…


    STOP IT! None of those deals are happening


    I could see a Dragic trade happening,

    A bit off topic, but watching yesterdays game I think that it was a perfect demonstration of why the league needs to get rid of back to back games. Obviously not an excuse, but the Knicks looked lethargic last night which doesn’t make for interesting basketball when a team is already half gassed before the game starts. Not sure what the stat would be, but in the number of games I have watched this year, there haven’t been too many great games when a team (or both teams) have come off a game the night before.

    The best thing for this team would be for Melo to get surgery, Rose to pay a lot of minutes, and KP to be on a strict minutes cap. We lose a lot of games that way, get a high pick, let Rose go, and have $20 mil we don’t have to spend so we can develop the kids and trade Melo next year with flexibility because we have cap space.

    I mean, the best thing would be to trade Rose, Melo, et al now, but that isn’t going to happen.

    If we had a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft, though, we would be so set. Particularly if we keep our own.

    If you’d have told me Capela would be hurt, I would have thought the Rockets would be in trouble this year. Not exactly.

    IDK, the Rockets have the look to me of a team built for the regular season. I think come playoff time, defenses will tighten and teams will trap Harden and force him to give up the ball.

    Plus they’re not great on the defensive side either.

    If built for the regular season means still-going-to-lose to the Warriors then yeah….

    I don’t think people tip their cap to Morey quite enough. He’s had an incredible run. Never had a losing season despite losing Yao Ming and being in salary cap hell as a result. Obviously, he stole Harden away which helped tremendously, but he’s done an excellent job of filling out his roster, year in and year out, in very interesting and innovative ways.

    I should probably add, Michael Lewis shares that view. He devoted a whole chapter (an early one in fact) to Morey in his new book.

    Well, the Howard signing didn’t really work out too well for Morey last year.

    Of course everyone in the West will lose to the Warriors, but I think Houston could lose in the early rounds.

    Man, the Kings are shellacking the Warriors right now.

    We need to get in on a trade with them.

    I don’t think people tip their cap to Morey quite enough.

    I never quite got why Morey was shopping Beverley last season. A 3&D type guy who could guard opposing 1’s appeared to be a perfect fit next to Harden. The on/off stats this season bear that out.

    Anunoby would be a very good pickup if we miss on Ntilikina. He might be gone by the time we pick, though. I’m guessing we draft Bridges or Kurucs.

    Mike D’Antoni is currently saving Morey’s tail. MDA has guys playing over their heads and is letting James Harden be himself. I’ll always hate Morey for the TMac trade.

    My current guy that I want the Knicks to draft is Luke Kennard. That kid is Manu Ginobili part 2. OG Anunoby would be a good pick too, though.

    In fairness to Morey, he did sign D’Antoni.

    Kennard isn’t very high in the mock draft charts, I wonder if we can trade for a pick in the late first to get him.

    I’m seeing Kennard in the 20-28 range. Getting a late first would be great if either Hart or Kennard fell to us

    The NCAA Tournament will mean a lot for Kennard’s stock. If he plays well and Duke goes far, he’ll jump up the charts, despite not actually being any different of a player.

    Hmmm…has anyone ever studied if the NCAA Tournament bias was a bad thing? Off the top of my head, the guys who were drafted higher because of their great tournaments (Wade, Curry, Heyward) actually turned out to be good players. But there must be examples of the opposite happening (Kaminsky? Lyles?), so I’d love to see if anyone has done a study on that.

    I don’t think Kaminsky, Lyles, et. al. are good examples. They were already highly ranked players independent of their tournament play and were picked right about where they should have based on their pre-tournament reps.

    I think Berri researched the tournament bias and found it to be a bad indicator for NBA performance. It was several years ago and I don’t have a link.

    I don’t think Kaminsky, Lyles, et. al. are good examples. They were already highly ranked players independent of their tournament play and were picked right about where they should have based on their pre-tournament reps.

    They were both going to be first round picks, but I think Kamnisky’s performance got him into the top ten and I think Lyles’ performance got him into the lottery. Perhaps not as significant as a jump as Curry, Wade and Heyward, but some forward movement based on their NCAA Tournament performance. I just thought of a better example from that draft though, Sam Dekker getting into the top 20 picks. He had early second rounder written all over him until his Tourney performance.

    Jonny Flynn got drafted before Steph Curry based off of tournament play.

    My point is, even if he waives the NTC, we would not realistically get much back. Most teams don’t trade 2 1st rounders for an overpaid star with declining skills, unless he’s from Italy

    We understand it.

    We know Melo won’t bring back a haul like the Knicks gave up for him. The question is whether we can get back better long term value for building a team that actually has a chance to win it all than we have now. I think the answer to that is clearly yes because we have zero chance now. If we got back an expiring contract, that wouldn’t be fair value, but even extra cap space is better than Melo if we fill it with fairly valued younger players with upside. We can certainly get back more than just an expiring contract.

    The problem with putting a lot of weight on the NCAA tournament is that the sample size is very small. However, given that the tournament contains a lot of good teams and players, it does give people a chance to see how certain players match up against other elite talent at their position. So imo it should weigh into the thinking a little.

    Jonny Flynn will forever be why you don’t draft based on tourney play.

    It’s pretty dumb when you think about it, weighing a 4-6 game sample over an entire season or a few seasons worth of data. But humans are pretty dumb.

    I want to jump in on the trade Melo idea.

    I also do not understand why people would be against taking back a long term contract. I mean, even if we trade Melo and Noah today and draft a lottery pick this year, get an extra first rounder, second rounders, etc…and all of our picks turn out to be good picks. Even if that happened we all know that this upcoming season would be a rebuild. And probably the year after that too. So why not take on salary of veteran players. Trading Melo is an admission that we’re not ready anyways. And if we take back and long term contract it probably allows us to ask for more picks in said trade. If we’re looking solely for expiring contracts and picks, we are probably getting worse/less picks than if we took on a long term salary or two in a Melo deal.

    Plus, so many people on this board have said that building a good team through Free Agency is not really feasible anymore anyways, if it ever was. So obsession with salary cap the next few years while we rebuild seems silly.

    I’d look to trade Melo with whatever deal can get us the most/best picks. If that means taking back 20 million in veteran contracts that run as long as Melo’s current deal, so be it. If its broken up in two or three players it will be easier to trade those players down the road anyways. Trading Melo/Noah is going full rebuild mode.

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