Knicks Morning News (2016.03.18)

  • [New York Post] Notre Dame’s Jerian Grant successor coming to Brooklyn (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 00:30:12 -0400)

    Notre Dame's Demetrius Jackson enters the NCAA Tournament in a funk, but he also comes to Brooklyn as the most talented and exciting player at Barclays Center. The 6-foot-1 junior point guard has inherited the Irish backcourt from Knicks rookie Jerian Grant and run with it. Jackson has been tabbed by as the 11th…

  • [New York Times] Lowry, DeRozan Each Score 28 in 101-94 Win Over Pacers (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 04:42:34 GMT)

    With Kyle Lowry and DeMar Derozan driving from the backcourt, the Toronto Raptors are on track for the best season in franchise history.

  • [New York Times] Ingles Scores 15, Jazz Beat Suns 103-69 (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 04:18:40 GMT)

    No Gordon Hayward? No problem for the Utah Jazz.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: John Wall Boosts the Wizards (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 04:10:28 GMT)

    John Wall had 16 points, 14 assists and 13 rebounds for his fourth triple-double of the season and the Washington Wizards held on, 99-94, over the 76ers in Philadelphia.

  • [New York Times] Lowry, DeRozan Lead Raptors Past Pacers (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 03:54:27 GMT)

    Toronto continues to build a solid case for at least the No. 2 seed in the Eastern Conference, and may have what it takes to reel in the Cleveland Cavaliers, who now lead the Raptors by only two games in the loss column.

  • [New York Times] Bulls 118, Nets 102: Nets Fall to Bulls, Who Pass Pistons for Eighth Place in East (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 03:52:04 GMT)

    Doug McDermott scored 25 points for injury-ravaged Chicago, which moved into the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference.

  • [New York Times] Spurs Stop Trail Blazers to Extend Home Streak (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 03:51:28 GMT)

    LaMarcus Aldridge and Kawhi Leonard scored 22 points apiece to lead five San Antonio players in double figures as the Spurs turned a tight game into a runaway with a dominating third quarter and beat the Portland Trail Blazers 118-100 on Thursday to remain unbeaten at home.

  • [New York Times] Aldridge, Leonard Lead Spurs to 34th Straight Home Win (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 03:15:50 GMT)

    Kawhi Leonard and LaMarcus Aldridge each had 22 points and the San Antonio Spurs beat the Portland Trail Blazers 118-110 Thursday night to secure the second-best home start to a season in league history.

  • [New York Times] Hornets Top Heat 109-106, Rallying From 15-Point Deficit (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 03:12:54 GMT)

    Golden State and San Antonio have the NBA’s two best records since the All-Star break, which certainly is no surprise since the Warriors and Spurs have been well atop the league all season.

  • [New York Times] Ennis’ Big Fourth Lead Bucks Past Grizzlies 96-86 (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 02:52:05 GMT)

    Tyler Ennis scored all 13 of his points in the fourth quarter to lead the Milwaukee Bucks to a 96-86 victory over the short-handed Memphis Grizzlies on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Hardaway Starts, Scores 21 Points; Hawks Beat Nuggets 116-98 (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 02:49:09 GMT)

    Tim Hardaway Jr. scored a season-high 21 points in his first start of the season and the surging Atlanta Hawks beat the Denver Nuggets 116-98 on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] McDermott, Butler Lead Bulls Past Nets 118-102 (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 02:37:01 GMT)

    Doug McDermott scored 25 points and Jimmy Butler added 22 to help the Chicago Bulls beat the Brooklyn Nets 118-102 on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Wall’s Triple-Double Leads Wizards Over 76ers 99-94 (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 01:46:23 GMT)

    John Wall had 16 points, 14 assists and 13 rebounds for his fourth triple-double of the season and the Washington Wizards held on for a 99-94 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Changing the Rules of the Women’s Game, With the Hope of Altering the Interest Level (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 00:28:40 GMT)

    At the college and professional levels, the women’s game is changing rules, adjusting playoff formats and taking advantage of prominent events in order to maintain and extend its audience.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ losing starting to weigh on Carmelo Anthony (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 02:51:33 GMT)

    The reality that his career with the Knicks is stuck in neutral hit Anthony after an embarrassing loss to the Warriors.

  • [ – New York Knicks] Friday's Knicks Links: Losing getting to Melo (Fri, 18 Mar 2016 05:30:25 EST)

    Friday's Knicks Links: Losing getting to Melo

  • 59 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.03.18)”

    Unfortunately the (correct) perception around the league is that the Knicks are an old franchise run by people living in the past. Whether there is merit to what Rambis/Phil are doing right now actually doesn’t matter – the perception is what matters. We don’t have a pick, so the only chance this team has of improving significantly is making high impact free agent signings. If FAs look at this team, why in the world would they want to come here unless we massively overpay? An offense that was last successful when a lot of these guys were in high school. A defensive strategy (pack the paint, let them shoot 3’s) that is out of, what, 1985? A coach that plays Sasha and wants to make Porzingis into a post-up small forward when it’s obvious to the universe that he is very possibly a game changing center.

    What I would say about a Melo trade is that there are very very few teams that he would (or should) accept a trade to that would have adequate assets to trade back to us, probably Boston, the Clippers, or Houston. That’s a pretty small market. If you ask me we would have to get at least 2 young semi-proven prospects (or 1 legitimately currently good player) plus a lottery pick. Otherwise it is not clear that it would be a good outcome for us. It’s very hard to find an example of a team that let go of a “star” for anything less than a very very good deal and came out ahead in the long run. Orlando still sucks after the Howard trade. The Denver/NYK trade has been shown really to be a lose-lose trade. OKC is great but that’s in spite of the Howard trade.

    And this team would be pretty terrible without Melo. Porzingis is not ready to be the alpha on this team. the absolute worst outcome (other than KP having a serious injury) is that he gets disillusioned and leaves. Unlikely but possible. But shoving the franchise into his lap (and all the negative media that will come with it) before he’s ready might be a very dangerous move.

    Right, Carmelo is doing his damnest to be an example of playing hard and well at all phases (on and off the court) on this team. He clearly has accepted Phil Jackson’s challenge.

    The man was already a champion entering the NBA. People forget that the one year that Carmelo had a strong coach and team, was the one year he got his ring. A very small minority of NBA All Stars can say that.

    I’d rather that he stay with the Knicks because he can:

    1. Mentor the younger players on approaching the game the way he does. This is the ONE detail Philly has overlooked in its tank/rebuild program, which is why their rebuild has taken longer than expected despite the ridiculous bounty of assets they possess.

    2. Regain (some of) his explosiveness. The dude had major knee surgery last year and it usually takes the second year to fully come back.

    3. Play at a high level well into his thirties. Carmelo has shifted his game from more athletic to more physical and techical that takes advantage of his mass, strength and smarts, things that won’t go away any time soon.

    4. Show how to handle the media. He likes living and playing in NY and more or less ignores and lets the NY media play it’s little word games. Not everyone can do that.

    5. Give the rest of the team some degree of hope. Trading him would pretty much rip the heart from the other guys.

    For all these reasons, Carmelo is worth more (on and off the court) to the Knicks than anything short of Herschel Walker type treasure hoard.

    I say keep The Dude, because the Dude abides.

    If Rambis was a garden-variety bad coach, his tenure would be pretty inconsequential. We weren’t going to make the playoffs anyway, so all he’d cost us in the long term is 30 games of development time for Grant and Zing. Unfortunately, his insistence on playing Melo 40+ minutes could have repercussions long after Rambis is gone. This is what happened to Amare. D’Antoni leaned on him for 40 minutes a game and pretty soon he was a shell of himself.

    Melo is playing on a surgically reconstructed knee and is being run out there for no reason whatsoever. He could well hurt himself badly and never be the same, all while we’re paying him max money for three years. Phil is flirting with disaster by not stepping in to tell Rambis to back off Melo’s minutes.

    Look at Rose, Noah, and Deng right now. All were minutes workhorses, all are on the way to being washed up.

    It’s crazy what happened to those guys. Melo has had pretty good longevity, hopefully we can use him efficiently. 33-35 mins a game next year and decreasing every year

    Yes, it’s nuts to play Melo 40 minutes, it’s a Pascal’s wager of all risk no reward, but those lessons are too easily learned. First of all, Deng is absolutely fine right now. His performance this year at 30 relative to his career average actually outperforms any aging model every created. Noah has been very injury prone, but he also has a career average of 29.5 mpg, never averaged more than 36.8, and only average more than 32.8 twice in his career. Tim Duncan, one of the most resilient players in league history, played 38.7mpg or more every year for six years. Karl Malone averaged over 37 mpg 12 times, including at age 38. KG did it 11 times. These are some of the best aging curves in history. I know, I know. When you have guys that are more fragile like Noah, THEN you have to limit their minutes. Maybe, or maybe they will decline more rapidly with more fragility anyway. In any case, Noah never actually played a ton of minutes.

    Players get hurt and have varying degrees of sensitivity to getting hurt, but the minutes correlation is extremely unclear. Noah’s mpg looks exactly like all the starters in his draft class. Durant, Horford, Thad Young, Marc Gasol are all bigs with equal or more minutes in their prime and tell no clear story about the connection to minutes, age-decline, and injuries. Splitter is the player with the most intentionally conservative minutes from that 07 class, but that hasn’t spared him wearing down early in the slightest.

    And throwing Rose in there seems to make the argument even weaker.

    We need Melo to get to Olympic camp and have CP3 take him out on the banana boat and not go back to land until he waves his no trade.

    People realize that the Knicks are still a business right? Melo plays 40 min a game because they still need to put butts in the seats. Also, the final number of Knicks wins may still make a difference to some free agents, one last win streak may make the difference between looking like Philly and looking like a playoff threat.

    Everybody is gonna bang the table for a Melo trade until we get back JJ Reddick and the Clippers’ first round pick.

    Come on. Playing Melo 33 vs 40 minutes doesn’t affect marginal ticket sales. And the marginal impact on winning is tiny, at most an extra 7 minutes over 30 games for a player like Melo is worth 0.5 expected wins. Free agents don’t give a shit about 33 vs 34 wins.

    If Melo cares more about himself than the team by refusing to waive his no trade clause then why should we care about making him earn his $25 million per by playing him 40 minutes?

    People forget that the one year that Carmelo had a strong coach and team, was the one year he got his ring.

    I am sorry, what ring is that? I remember Melo getting to a conference final once but things get a little foggy after that.

    Hmm… So playing 7 extra minutes has significant differences for injury and other bad things, but not for good things?

    Rambis is a moron and the WSJ had a sound article showing how the coach is fucking with our KP.
    Talking him down, diminishing his value to the team by forcing him to play post up, cutting back his minutes. They kid is all screwed up.
    He was a double double machine. Now, he appears to be lost and his confidence has been hurt.


    I’ll leave it as another issue as to whether Melo’s ever been a good player, but it’s an odd narrative that Melo has fallen off this year.

    Melo’s putting up his second best year in WP and VORP, and his third best year in BPM. He’s putting up career highs in AST% and TRB%. The idea that Melo has fallen off seems largely due to his lower TS% and YAY Pointz! However, even his TS% is well within the range of what’s been normal for him.

    Who’s to say that when they come back to shore it’s Paul who is asking out. ” Its to hard in the west Melo, I still can’t get to an WCF, I need to come east. You think Phil is bad, Doc has him beat. Oh yeah Melo, Does State Farm have a Branch in NY?”

    @16 I agree but you also have to factor in fatigue for the kid. He’s worn down. I saw somewhere that he’s already played more mins then he had in the previous 3 years combined

    I just want to be on record by saying I’m AGAINST a Carmelo trade…I think it is obvious that he’s our best player and that we won’t get anything near his real value in a trade. This season he has done everything he can to help this team win, but he can’t play 5 positions and coach the team.

    Believing Melo is a good player =/= Believing you shouldn’t trade Melo

    @23 exactly. That’s why a lot of folks wanna trade while they can.

    U didn’t hear trade rumors for someone like Joe Johnson for example

    Just overpay for Batum and sign a Lin/Dellavedova type to work with Grant and Wroten and we’ll be fine.

    “Play Wroten” and “we’ll be fine” are mutually exclusive

    I think Melo is good, overpaid and impossible to trade

    Also I think he should be traded for a sack of potatoes

    If you want to make the argument that the Knicks shouldn’t trade Carmelo Anthony unless they get X prospects or Z picks based on the fact that other teams who have gotten less for their Stars are not title contenders, then you are obligated to also point out those scenarios where teams haven’t traded their Stars. I believe there are several examples of this in recent Knicks history. It looks a lot like purgatory. The Aging star demands more veterans and more wins and the desperate team has to oblige. When the Aging star is no longer a star the desperate team is left in a situation that looks a lot like the Nets’ situation right now.

    I’d also point out how difficult it is to go from crap to good in the NBA. You should expect the majority of well run teams to fail at this, so I don’t know that there’s much value to looking at failures. Instead, look at the few successes.

    @23 exactly. That’s why a lot of folks wanna trade while they can.

    U didn’t hear trade rumors for someone like Joe Johnson for example

    Yeah, precisely. There’s only rumors about Melo because he’s still good enough to merit rumors. It’s no knock on Melo to want to trade him. Heck, he’d be better off in a lot of ways playing for a team that could actually win a title. But obviously he doesn’t see it that way. Honestly, I respect the way that he puts his family’s stability ahead of his own career. Very few players would do the same (while I respect it, it obviously annoys me from a “fan of the Knicks” perspective).

    That popping sound you hear is a million NCAA brackets being busted by everyone’s darling Michigan St. losing to a 15 seed.

    “Carmelo Anthony on Knicks Future: ‘S__t, I don’t know'”

    Just shoot that good shit directly into my veins NY Daily News

    However, league sources with knowledge of the situation told’s Ian Begley that there are some in the organization who believe Anthony may change his stance — and look into his options on the trade market — if the Knicks fail to add talent in free agency.

    Ugh, it is so stupid. I do agree that if the Knicks signed nobody that he would be willing to be dealt, but that’s the thing, they will sign someone and that will always be “enough” for him and they would never dare to not sigh anybody because they want to do “enough” to keep him here (which is easy, as doing anything would be “enough”). It’s, like, a vicious circle, yo.

    Someone like Brian is always “drugs won’t actually solve your problems” and I’m just trying to lay here feeling good man

    Ugh, it is so stupid. I do agree that if the Knicks signed nobody that he would be willing to be dealt, but that’s the thing, they will sign someone and that will always be “enough” for him and they would never dare to not sigh anybody because they want to do “enough” to keep him here (which is easy, as doing anything would be “enough”). It’s, like, a vicious circle, yo.

    Brian, that paragraph just gave me a headache, and it’s not even tomorrow morning yet (-:

    Brian, that paragraph just gave me a headache, and it’s not even tomorrow morning yet (-:

    Ha! I mean that he is never leaving. And since he knows he is never leaving, he intentionally makes vague threats, so that whatever the Knicks do, he can say, “Yeah, that’s what I wanted you to do. See, everyone? They’re doing what I asked!” Jackson could sign Kent Bazemore and Mario Chalmers for $30 million and Melo would say, “Great!” He made these same vague statements last year, and then it was “Oh, man! Awesome! Arron Afflalo! Just what I wanted!”

    The only possible thing that would drive him away at this point is if Jackson signed nobody and said, “We’re just going to do a slow rebuild, so deal with it, Melo.” But Melo knows that will never happen, so it easy to threaten “don’t do that!”

    I think it’s virtually impossible to make a bad deal if you trade Melo. He’s an overrated aging player that is not worth anywhere near what we are paying him. If we got expiring contracts for him, it would not be a horrible deal. I’m being serious!!! Getting that cap space back sooner would be a net positive over having him. We can certainly do a lot a better than that and we better, but if we got a couple of decent fairly priced players and a pick that would be good. If we got a legitimate all star prospect and a pick that would be stealing. If we did better than that I would be beside myself.

    Rookie wall is definitely a thing.

    I’m not saying it’s not, but I want to see stats that prove it. Most of the other top rookies have been getting better all season.

    I don’t think anyone cares enough to have released any updates about Jose-I know they said scans were negative, but that was the only info I could find.

    You gotta love these Melo quotes….

    “Anthony recently met with Jackson in Denver to discuss, among other things, the direction of the team. It was a sit-down Anthony described as, “a long good dinner. Some good food. Some salad. Some Colorado lamb.”

    When The Trade happens, I can tell you what I will eat to celebrate…

    Is that like some secret NBA weed reference? “Man, we had that primo colorado lamb last night”

    Phil Jackson can actually sign Jared Dudley and Mike Conley this off season, or Chalmers (or Livingston) and Batum.

    If Phil Jackson does what he did last summer in the next two off seasons, the Knicks are a contender in 2018 (barring a work stoppage). It’s possible that we could see a group of Mike Conley, Gordon Hayward, Melo, Porzingis, and Lopez in 2018. Or Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Melo, Porzingis, and Lopez.

    Keeping Melo does not damn the Knicks to hell. Trading Melo does not save the Knicks from ineptitude. Smart front office work is the only thing that determines where the Knicks will go. Look, if Chris Paul didn’t demand a trade out of New Orleans and had it not been for the Laker trade being vetoed, the Clippers would still suck. San Antonio and Golden State are the only franchises that you can argue are more good than lucky. Literally every other successful franchise in the NBA is predicated on good luck. We need Porzingis to prove we got lucky, and then we need to make smart moves around what we already have. Lopez, O’Quinn, and Galloway were good starts. Derrick Williams and Lance Thomas were solid moves but bad contracts. We need more moves like that, and less like Vujacic and Seraphin. Melo or no Melo, that is what will determine how successful the team is. We need to build around our already good front court.

    cap space back sooner would be a net positive over having him.

    Sorry but this is dumb. Who are you signing with that cap space? If you sign 2 good players and you win more, you hurt your draft status if that’s the goal. If you sign young mediocre players ….da fuq was the point

    Oh fuck Wes Matthews

    Edit: false alarm, looked like a horrific Paul George injury but he’s somehow okay

    stratomatic when you pour the liquid hate I get all sorts of goose pimples on my skin crest

    oh yes

    Sorry but this is dumb. Who are you signing with that cap space? If you sign 2 good players and you win more, you hurt your draft status if that’s the goal. If you sign young mediocre players ….da fuq was the point

    I hate to break it to you, but Melo does not contribute anywhere near as many wins to the team as he gets paid to contribute. And it’s only going to get worse as he ages and his salary rises.

    The way you rebuild is to accumulate as many wins as you can with players on fair to bargain salaries, be it via trade, FA, and/or draft. Then you see what opportunities present themselves going forward.

    If we can get a legitimate up and coming player and/or good draft picks for him, of course that’s way better. But I’d take a Baby Ruth and a Coke just to get him off the team at what he’s making relative to the wins he contributes.

    When you are paying a player a lot more than he is worth, it’s that much harder to accumulate wins around him. That’s why it seems so bleak right now. We have enough cap space for one really good player next year and we all know that one really good player will not make us a contender unless KP becomes a super duper super freak. That’s because Melo is taking up a maximum slot and is only contributing wins at the rate of a slightly above average player. If he was giving us 15 wins or more like he should be at that salary, it would be easier to imagine how to turn this team into a contender. He, and to a lesser extent Afflalo and Calderon, are the overpaid players. The latter 2 will be gone shortly. We need to push Melo out.

    As much as we criticize some of Phil’s moves, the really horrible one he inherited, which left us without a pick this year.

    Also agree, if you trade Melo and don’t get a 1st and a starter back, you are screwed. You are not going to lure a big name FA here if your best player is Zinger. You are just going to pay that $25M to someone not as good as Melo, and for longer.

    Remember the year we had all that $$ that nobody wanted, and we had to overpay Amare?

    on my skin crest

    I think I speak for all of us when I say the less about whatever that is the better

    You are not going to lure a big name FA here if your best player is Zinger.

    Not in the short term, no, absolutely agreed. But they’re not going to be contenders in the short term no matter what (and long term, Porzingis could easily be someone who does draw big name FAs. But that’s long term. Which I know is a taboo term at MSG, but still). So if they’re not going to be contenders, it doesn’t make sense to have Melo here in his age 32-34 seasons while he makes more and more money each season. I mean, don’t get me wrong, it is what is going to happen, since he’s never leaving, but it doesn’t make sense.

    I hate to say it, but every time someone here posts about luring free agents, I think of Nigerian princes offering me millions because odds of the Knicks being a destination for any free agent who isn’t just coming because the Knicks offered the most money are about as high as that emailer really being a wealthy prince, and the psychology that gets people to buy into that fantasy IMO is no different.

    Just when I was beginning to think that the knicks could get Oladipo without trading Lopez he drops 45 against Cleveland. I couldn’t get Harris out of Orlando but i’ll will Ola from orlando. I should have my Floridian card pulled. lol. It’s time to reunite Grant with his baby’s Godfather.

    The Knicks have every advantage for drawing free agents in NY. The disadvantage is that we aren’t a very good team. Part of the reason it’s hard for us to build a really good team is that Melo takes up a max salary slot and is only a mildly above average player. The idea that “Melo” might draw FAs is a fallacy. It’s true in theory because he has the “star name”, but it’s not true in reality because he’s not contributing enough wins to make us good.

    We were good in that 54 win season because we had Chandler while he was at his best and we got the last breaths of Kidd, two key pieces of a world championship team.

    We were good in that 54 win season because we had Chandler while he was at his best

    Didn’t chandler miss the end of the season where the Knicks went like 16-2

    When you are paying a player a lot more than he is worth,

    So how did they do it before?

    It is seeming increasingly likely that Melo will not be in a Knicks uniform next year.

    He’s making thinly-veiled references to waiving his NTC and running out of patience
    It’s a thin FA field this year and making a trade may be the only way for win-now contending teams to improve (e.g. Clips)
    His contract is less onerous now that it has less time left and he’s still relatively healthy

    I’m as annoyed with Phil’s flakiness and rigidity as anyone right now, but if he turns Melo into at least a mid-round 1st rounder and a decent young player on a friendly contract, the near-max deal was worth it. The only part of the logic for signing Melo that made sense is not giving him up for nothing. That doesn’t mean I’d be bummed if we got less in return for him, but that’s the break-even point for me. Anything less and the signing would have to be judged as a losing proposition.

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