2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Jazz

The Knicks host the Utah Jazz in one of those weird matinee games that get played every so often. Luckily, the Knicks no longer have JR Smith on the team, who literally would be hungover for matinee games, which is just so insane and yet, hey, the guy has a championship ring, so I guess it all balances out.

The Knicks are coming off a very impressive win against Chicago where we got to see the Joakim Noah we all expected to see in Year 1 of his contract instead of the sleepwalking Noah we saw through the first four games. Derrick Rose, as well, started to dish the ball, ending up with more assists against the Bulls than he had in his first four games combined. Let’s just hope that this wasn’t some “Giving a crap when it’s against your old team” thing. Them playing like they did on Friday would dramatically change the chances of this team being good this year. A win against Utah today would bring them to .500, which would be nice.

Gordon Hayward returns for Utah today, but we can hope that he’s rusty in his first game back. Lance Thomas also returns for the Knicks today, but we can hope that he’s not rusty!

Finally, congrats to longtime poster Z-Man for competing in his first (and as he said, last) marathon today at the age of 58. Go you!

Let’s go, Knicks!

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267 thoughts to “2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Jazz”

  1. Lance Thomas is back and rumor is that he’s been working on perfecting his 3 pt shot in his secret laboratory. Opponents should be very afraid.

  2. It’s Rose finding KP, once as a trailer and the other time after breaking down the defense and kicking it out. The message must have gotten to him to get KP the ball.

  3. It’s Rose finding KP, once as a trailer and the other time after breaking down the defense and kicking it out. The message must have gotten to him to get KP the ball.

    It’s like he realized on Friday, “Oh wait, you can penetrate and then pass?”

  4. It’s like he realized on Friday, “Oh wait, you can penetrate and then pass?”

    And another drive and kick to Porzingis for 3!

  5. Only problem is that if KP scores 50, Melo probably demands he’s traded by midseason.

  6. I don’t care how many of those shots Melo makes. Fucking garbage iso bullshit that will eventually come back to earth.

    The guy seems fundamentally incapable of playing a full game of modern basketball. It’s not 2002 anymore.

  7. Utah’s offense is so weird. Everything is a long jumper. Granted, Melo is doing the same thing.

  8. Our team reminds me of the old Dallas mavericks.
    Transitioning from Finley (Melo) to Dirk (KP).
    I believe that team made the playoffs or the 2nd round. Which is very realistic for our team too.

  9. Yeah, melo just can’t organically keep the ball moving, it’s very frustrating to watch.

  10. I also want to say that I believe Justin Holiday will be a better player for the Knicks than Jerian Grant will ever be.

  11. I don’t care how many of those shots Melo makes. Fucking garbage iso bullshit that will eventually come back to earth.

    I think it’s “by design”. They transitioned to ISO ball when KP left the game.

  12. I don’t care how many of those shots Melo makes. Fucking garbage iso bullshit that will eventually come back to earth.

    The guy seems fundamentally incapable of playing a full game of modern basketball. It’s not 2002 anymore.

    Jesus Christ, he had shorter guys on him almost every time and those shots were barely contested. Give it a rest.

  13. Phil Jackson should be ashamed of himself for signing a bunch of good ball players and then marginalizing their impact by forcing them to play a complicated system.

  14. I love Kuz. He should be taking all of Lance’s minutes probably.

  15. Is KOQ an actual professional basketball player? He looks like a tall guy from the Y who doesn’t understand defense or shooting or the basic fucking rules of the game.

    Edit: Ok that was a nice dunk

  16. KOQ is annoying because he’s really good at rebounding and scores efficiently so I can’t dislike him too much but my lord he does some dumb shit.

  17. The Jazz were also awful in their last matinee game. They don’t seem like the type of team to be affected by early starts.

  18. Truthfully a bench unit of Jennings, Holiday, Thomas, Kuz, and O’Quinn is a better bench than a lot of teams have. I’m convinced it’s the triangle that made us look so bad.

    That 2015 team with Jose, Shump, Melo, and Dalembert was not supposed to be as bad as it was.

  19. The Jazz went out partying in NYC last night. That sort of stuff doesn’t happen much in Utah ;)

  20. My favorite thing about Kuz both this year and before this is complete and utter refusal to shoot long 2’s–he almost exclusively shoots 3’s or shots within 10 feet of the basket.

  21. Watching NBA league pass, and stuck with the Utah station.
    The commercials are almost exclusively wholesome…

  22. That defensive play earlier in the quarter where he gave up an easy baseline jumper on a blown PnR switch is one of those ball IQ things that my fancy little regression stats do not assess well.

    I won’t complain about a guy who fights for weak side ORB but cmon

  23. I’m seeing too many triangle sets to start the second. I wonder if Phil texted Ram is to tell Jeff to tighten up

  24. The commercials are almost exclusively wholesome…

    Lady Jowles is an ex-Mormon native Utahn and aside from the oppressive, suffocating patriarchy and ugly homophobia and misogyny, those folk are really pleasant, especially in the relief of my downstate NY brethren who are real-deal pricks.

    She also tells me that every Mormon ward has a basketball court in their church.

  25. The Knicks aren’t even playing well this quarter but the Jazz are just goddawful today, so they’re barely touching the first quarter lead.

  26. Notice how Lee takes a phantom shot attempt to the side of his head before a FTA, and then bring the ball to the center of his forehead for the actual shot? That’s really odd.

  27. You can’t tell me that that’s the shot attempt you actually want, Melo.

    Alright maybe that was a foul

  28. Heywood is another forward in the league that Melo seems to have a “thing” with. Frankly I don’t care for this type of mano a mano nonsense. Lead by example Melo!

  29. I feel like we should be up 20

    They’re still up by double digits, but yeah, the Jazz aren’t hitting any shots, including shooting 23% from three, so it does feel like they should be absoltuely blowing them out. But hey, double digit lead is still very, very good. I’m still very happy about how this game is going.

  30. So the Utah announcers say KP is the big challenge, “but I think they have him figured out. They got him in foul trouble.”

    From what I could see it was silly ticky tac fouls KP made

  31. This team hasn’t played too many games together, but Melo and KP have a whole season together and Rose/Noah have been together since 2008. That has to count for something.

    Ironically it’s been O’Quinn and Jennings with the best chemistry in games

  32. Heywood is another forward in the league that Melo seems to have a “thing” with.

    It was with the Detroit game that I really did start to notice that yeah, he has a lot of weird grudges out there in the league. I mean, Marcus freakin’ Morris? How does that guy even enter your mind?

  33. It was with the Detroit game that I really did start to notice that yeah, he has a lot of weird grudges out there in the league. I mean, Marcus freakin’ Morris? How does that guy even enter your mind?

    When Markieff was drafted he said he’d be like Melo but “with defense” or something along those lines. Maybe he doesn’t differentiate among twins?

  34. Hayward hits a three so Melo decides it’s not a team game anymore and clangs a 3

    C’mon, be fair here, that was an obvious 2-1 with 31 seconds left, I’m sure Hornacek was fine with it.

    I mean, the guy is 7-10 and this whole thread is about trashing him.

  35. Yup, Melo took that 3pter so they get a 2 for 1 to end the half. But let’s talk shit about someone who shot 7 for 10 and had 6 rebs in the 1st half.

  36. He takes the quick three and makes it we go up by 8. Then we get the ball back with 6 seconds and score again we’re back up by ten. He wasn’t being selfish or holding a grudge. He was doing what you’re supposed to do when you have the ball with 30 seconds left in a quarter. Take the quick shot so you get the final possession.

  37. Does anybody know what radio station the game is on? ESPN radio is playing football coverage right now. I’m stuck in the car.

  38. I won’t knock Melo for that quick 3 and overall he’s having a good game. I have however watched him have these “grudge match” games with a number of different forwards for several years now and its really frustrating when he makes it all about trying to prove who is top dog in those instances. Especially because it usually means lots of forced mid range jumpers or unproductive bull rushes to the rim. If he put as much energy into actually stopping these opposing forward from scoring, I wouldn’t mind it half as much. I just don’t feel that it sends the right signal to his teammates.

  39. My comment about selfish Melo was made earlier in the game and not about the two for one which made sense. There was plenty of selfishness and bad team play earlier though. Even the home crowd was yelling at him to pass a few times.

  40. this is the worst 8-13 game melo’s ever played

    he looks horrid

  41. KP has been open like three or four times and no one has passed it to him

  42. @115

    You shouldn’t have to apologize. Melo always gets caught up in scoring duels like this and it stifles movement when he begins to dominate the ball for a while.

  43. KP has been open like three or four times and no one has passed it to him

    What else is new?

  44. When are people on this team going to understand that good things happen offensively when KP gets good looks?

  45. I see the Melo defenders are out in force. The knicks were up 10. Hayward drills a three over Melo.
    Melo tries his own three. Misses
    Utah dunks.
    Lead down to five.
    It swings the game.

    I get your point about how he overall is playing, but that sequence halved the lead and there was no doubt in any player’s mind Melo was heaving that three.

    I’m not a typical Melo basher. But Melo thinks he’s dueling.

  46. This is exactly what I don’t want to see, a lineup with no starters. It doesn’t work. We fall behind. I need to see 2 starters in the game at all times.

  47. So in the pre-season Jeff kept one of Melo and KP on the court but in the regular season he thinks it’s a bad idea?

  48. We’ve seen some horrific defensive Knicks teams in the past decade but this might be the worst one of them.

  49. That Rose being Rose combined with KP’s 4th PF kind of feels like a death knell

  50. Damn, two blown lay ups by our guards. Years ago, Rose would have posterized the defenders on that shot….

  51. Courtney Lee has a beautiful shooting form. The Jazz are a really good team; hopefully we can pull this one out.

  52. Noah needs to chill with those chest bumps, Jennings is gonna need an extra day of rest to recover from that

  53. @149

    I have seen Melo just leave players alone after he switches. It’s sad, that has nothing to do with being a step slow that’s just him not caring

  54. Frustrating second half – several sequences w KP posting George Hill and they can’t get him the ball? Rotations w n starters leading to a 10 point swing? Smh

  55. How is it that KP hasn’t seen the ball in such a long time?
    He’s our most efficient scorer

  56. How is it that KP hasn’t seen the ball in such a long time?

    Because our team is about creating your own shot. Guys do not want to pass the ball to the open man, they would much rather shoot a terrible shot than give it to someone shooting hot.

  57. Rose is always going to look a lot better than his numbers, so how you view Rose likely aligns with what you already think vis-a-vis eye test vs stats. Having said that, I think it’s very hard to argue that we couldn’t have found similar production for a lot cheaper and without trading assets.

  58. Isn’t the home team supposed to get that foul call on KP’s last shot against the big frenchman?

    Not sure I understand this lineup..at all. LT is a finisher now? I guess he is supposed to be the Haywood stopper?

  59. Not sure I understand this lineup..at all. LT is a finisher now? I guess he is supposed to be the Haywood stopper?

    I don’t get a lot of Horny’s lineups, but whateva.

  60. George Hill has low key been a top 5-7 PG for the past few years

    that pass was great and our defense was…oh my god…

  61. George Hill has low key been a top 5-7 PG for the past few years

    Also chosen late in the first round by the Spurs. Anyone wonder why the same types of team get these great late round value guys?

  62. Yeah Lance needs to grab some bench permanently. Justin Holiday and Kuz need all of his minutes.

    I think it’s relevant that Joakim Noah only played 20 minutes in tonight’s loss.

  63. Awful way to finish up a winnable . I just don’t think the team will play well enough on both ends without Noah on the court. We need him fellas. Desperately!

  64. I actually don’t think there’s a ton to dissect here. The Jazz are a significantly better team who we had a shot against at home because they started out awfully. I can never be too upset when Porzingis has this kind of game.

  65. World’s youngest Knicks fan thinks we played pretty well today against a really good team when healthy. Doesn’t love pants thomas playing ten minutes more than Noah, but is very willing to sleep on it.

  66. Dumb fouls in the 4th by everyone, particularly Melo really pushed the free throw disparity for the Jazz.

  67. It’s really amazing how San Antonio is so good at drafting that they picked George Hill, who they knew would be great, and turned him into Kawhi Leonard

    Simply unbelievable talent evaluation by them.

  68. LT with 5 points and 2 rebounds in 29 minutes. Is he adding much to the D for that? I don’t see it. Holiday is a better defender. Kuz can score better.

    Kuz with 5 points and 2 rebounds (same as Lance) in 7 minutes.

    Okay, Holiday is a better defender and Kuz a better scorer than LT. How bout giving those 2 more minutes?

  69. Gordon Hayward shot what will be his season high in free throws today. We bailed them out and we cannot foul so much. And Melo is not a SF defensively; he plays defense far too close to the basket and always ends up running out on defense

  70. Simply unbelievable talent evaluation by them.

    I’m convinced they have the perfect system in place and they draft accordingly. Its the anti-Sixers strategy of just grabbing high end talent and seeing what sticks together.

  71. Jazz will probably win 50 games this year and be a 4 or 5 seed. They also crushed the Spurs in SA. Not accepting losing, but they’re very good when healthy.

    We needed to build a 20 point lead when they were out of sync and Hayward was bricking. Instead we committed dumb fouls and kept them in it.

  72. It’s okay help is coming just wait until Phil pulls off the lance/O’quinn for Rudy Gay trade to sure up the Knicks second unit. :(

  73. That lineup that Horny ran out to start the 4th killed us. As bad as our defense was, the starters were scoring at a pretty high rate. There is know way he should have put a lineup out there that consisted of all backups. EVERY started had a positive +/-, and EVERY player on the bench was a negitive.

  74. I’d like Hornacek to say something about whatever is going on with Noah’s minutes. Is this just an early season thing? Matchup based? It’s not really what you want to see during year 1.

  75. I will say that the Knicks especially Rose n KP are showing signs of being a better team. They lost today because the Jazz are better than the Bulls. They gotta keep getting better

  76. We needed to build a 20 point lead when they were out of sync and Hayward was bricking. Instead we committed dumb fouls and kept them in it.

    That really is it in a nutshell. They had the Jazz down but instead of stepping on their neck, they helped them to their feet with the fouls.

  77. Have to say also, the Jazz are a really well put together team. Excellent PG in Hill, sharpshooting SG and SF in Hood and Hayward, solid PF in Favors and a great rim protector and rebounder at the 5 in Gobert. Their bench isn’t great, but adding Hill really makes them dangerous.

  78. Have to say also, the Jazz are a really well put together team. Excellent PG in Hill, sharpshooting SG and SF in Hood and Hayward, solid PF in Favors and a great rim protector and rebounder at the 5 in Gobert. Their bench isn’t great, but adding Hill really makes them dangerous.

    They’re good in general, but today they were so bad in the first half. It really kills me that they didn’t win this game. Ugh. So annoying.

  79. Porzingis was great. 28 points, 8 rebounds, 10-18 shooting (3-7 from three point land), 1 assist, 2 blocks and good defense.

    But also four stupid fouls and two TOs. He was our best player on the floor by a fair margin

  80. I just can’t believe we’re stuck with Lance Thomas for the next 3-4 years please trade him at the deadline

  81. @d-mar

    Yeah, Utah is Boston west with that great depth and a lot of youth, but with the young guys panning out better. I wasn’t high on the George Hill trade given his age and expiring contract. Hill should age pretty well given that he’s not a dribble drive player and is really smart, but a four year deal probably will be a net negative those final two years.

    Utah’s top six players are all significantly better than the Knicks’ 3rd best player, and they have great balance to their roster.

    If any team is gonna recreate those mid-2000s Pistons with crippling defense and a balanced offense, it’s Utah.

  82. Porzingis was great. 28 points, 8 rebounds, 10-18 shooting (3-7 from three point land), 1 assist, 2 blocks and good defense.But also four stupid fouls and two TOs. He was our best player on the floor by a fair margin

    Four stupid fouls and two really ill advised shots in crunch time – a 3 point attempt from 3o feet and an awkward leaner that barely caught rim. But no complaints about his game overall.

    (Gobert did kind of own him underneath, though, and that’s no knock on Zinger, that man is a beast, and that dunk over KP was ri-donk-ulous. )

  83. If any team is gonna recreate those mid-2000s Pistons with crippling defense and a balanced offense, it’s Utah.

    I agree, the George Hill signing was so perfect, it might be the best “fit” a team found in this offseason.

    the Jazz needed a stable, veteran guard to be the leader of the youngsters, preferably a player who could spot up and shoot well when Heyward is with the ball on his hands, and Hill is literally the best player they could have picked up to do that.

    if Favors becomes a consistent 18-10 guy they will be damn scary.

  84. The dude we signed to a huge contract to anchor it has played in less than half of our total minutes and I don’t really know why

  85. The dude we signed to a huge contract to anchor it has played in less than half of our total minutes and I don’t really know why

    I don’t think not having Noah in for a lot of the 4th quarter was the reason we lost. Rodney Hood had 12 points in the quarter and Joe fucking Johnson also made two 3’s. It wasn’t like we were getting killed off the glass or giving up dunks, so I don’t know how much difference Noah would have made.

  86. I think in a way, our defense wasn’t so bad, but we fouled way too much. A lot of time the defense looked focused and good. The Jazz had 31 free throws and missed only 5 of them. If we’d only fouled them 21 times, we probably would have won the game.

  87. “Utah’s top six players are all significantly better than the Knicks’ 3rd best player, and they have great balance to their roster.”

    That’s a bit of hyperbole, but I predicted a healthy Jazz team would finish 3rd in the west two months ago, fwiw.

    The defense SHOULD get better, but consider the following vis-a-vis the offense.

    The Jazz have only given up 109 points (in regulation) to the following teams since the start of last season: Portland, San Antonio, Oklahoma City (last year), Clippers, Washington and the Knicks today.

    Utah was 7th in defensive efficiency last season, but Favors and Gobert missed a combined 41 games.

  88. Thanks Nick C! I ran a 5:45, slow but considering my calves started cramping up on the Queensboro Bridge, I was lucky to finish at all. Truly one of the great experiences of my life, NYers are the absolute best people and without the support from thousands of strangers from start I never would have made it. A buddy from my job yelled out to me at Mile 12 “The Knicks are winning!” Oh well, almost a perfect day.

  89. I kept an eye out but I didn’t see anyone wearing a ‘z-man’ shirt. Congrats on making it! Couldn’t have asked for a nicer day.

  90. Oh yeah I don’t think not having Noah hurt us a ton in this game specifically, but we don’t have a true center besides him (I think Porzingis is still very much developing in that regard) so in general the defense suffers when he sits. For this game, well, Rose is a pretty bad defender and George Hill smoked him.

    Z-man, major congrats! My mother used to run it every year but I still have no clue how you people do that thing.

  91. It was absolutely beautiful until the last 5 miles when the sun went down and it got really cold and windy. I was walking a lot so by the time I finished, I was colder than Lance Thomas.

  92. The Knicks lost today because Z-Man wasn’t there to watch them. But congratulations on a great feat!

  93. Congrats z man! My sister ran the marathon today for the first time. I was out cheering with family around queens plaza. Great achievement!

  94. Boy wonder and the Boston superteam got waxed by Emmanuel Mudiay today. Just tremendous coaching from the smartest man in basketball.

  95. I think in a way, our defense wasn’t so bad, but we fouled way too much.

    Avoiding fouls is a pretty important part of team defense though, and that killed the Knicks today. Defensive FT/FGA has not been a major problem for the defense so far though, so maybe this was just an aberration.

  96. From Berman today, “Some believe Hornacek will one day be the Jazz head coach.” Huh? What a weird thing to say.

  97. It’s kind of amazing that even when Mudiay plays the best game of his young career he puts up 7 (!) turnovers

  98. Wilson Chandler with a great stat line. I liked him when he was here, happy to see that.

  99. Randle is playing some very good basketball at the moment

    Nick young is also not the black hole he usually is–I imagine he’ll come back down to earth and then they’ll start losing a fair number of games. That being said, they’re certainly going to be better than expected.

  100. The baby lakers look damn good. I’ve seen 4 games. They have wins over ATL,hou, GSW

    It’s ridiculous how much Scott fucked over that team last season. D’Angelo Russell looks like a completely different player, and basically the player we all thought he would be when he was drafted.

  101. He’s a good coach if you want to tank. Also if you want to stunt the growth of your players.

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