Knicks Draft 2015 Round Table: Part 4

The KnickerBlogger staff has decided to spend the 8 days prior to the draft discussing the upcoming event. Each day will feature a different question that we will attempt to answer. Feel free to join us in the comment section!

10 years from now, where will this draft rank in terms of NBA talent?

Silverman: Can I just keep putting shrug emoticons? It’s a total crapshoot. At the start of the season, you’d probably put the 2013 draft under the biggest bus you could find and tramle it to death. Even Mike Woodson would approve.

Now? Otto Porter looked great during the playoffs, Alex Len’s starting for Phoenix, Victor Oladipo looks like he’s ready to bust out. Nerlens Noel alone brought Philly’s defense to the middle of the pack. Rudy Gobert’s the Stifle Tower. And on and on.

Gibberman: I see it being something like the 2010 draft. Some strong top end talent and high quality throughout almost all of the top 10 picks. Also, some good selections throughout the later first round. I love this draft.

Fisher-Cohen: It’s hard for me to judge. It’s been so long since the Knicks have had a high draft pick, that my head is way deeper into this draft than previous ones. However, my impression is that the top of the draft will end up somewhat underwhelming compared to most drafts while picks 5-15 will have 2-3 real gems, maybe something like the 2004 draft.

Kurylo: It’s not going to be as good at the 2003 draft, but it’ll be better than anything from 2004-2010. Maybe take out LeBron James from 2003, and you have this group. I think it’ll be better than 2004. Towns can be the next Dwight, and I think the next 7 guys will out perform Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng, Al Jefferson, Kevin Martin, Josh Smith, Devin Harris, and Anderson Varejao.

Cronin: I think Mike nailed it – this draft really looks a lot like the 2003 Draft, sans Lebron. That draft had top shelf talent like Melo, Bosh and Wade in the top five while this draft has guys like Towns, Okafor and Russell who look like they’ll be stars. Mudiay would seriously be a #1 pick in the last two drafts and he’s not even necessarily going to be a top four pick this year! That’s nuts! Also, this draft even has a European bust going in the top five just like 2003 (I kid, Mario, I kid!).

28 replies on “Knicks Draft 2015 Round Table: Part 4”

I’m thinking this’ll go down as one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. Towns and maybe Russell are the only guys who might ever reach star status but I think there are least a dozen guys who can fill out a bench as solid role players with meaningful minutes.

So no game-changers but no real busts either and it’d be hard for any of the teams drafting in the top half to be disappointed. Likewise I think contenders in the mid-draft (think Heat, Thunder, and Hawks) can find a nice piece to shore up their bench and avoid overpaying in free agency.

3 guys teams are gonna regret passing over for Russell or Mudiay: Zinger, WCS, Okafor

What is up with Miami advertising that they’re going to offer Dragic less than the max (5/80 when his max is closer to 5/100)? Are they begging someone to come and swipe him from under their noses?

If I’m the Knicks I offer him a 1+1 contract at the max, draft WCS, and somehow try to fit Carroll or Green in whatever space is left, dumping a smaller contract like THJ if need be.

Isola’s article was really ridiculous. For example he complains that Jackson didn’t attend the draft lottery; but that’s a reporters lament that the big shot didn’t show up where he was, not a functional problem for the team. After the Knicks fell to number 4 in the draft lottery, Jackson said he expanded his scope to looking at something like thirty prospects and he seems to have met with most or all of them personally and/or attended their workouts. So he’s working hard at his job.

I’m not thrilled with Jackson’s performance as head of the Knicks so far, but I think he’s at least as good as previous GMs. All of them broke down the team to remake it the way they wanted, just like Jackson has done. But most or all of them didn’t have the emphasis on getting draft picks and changing the team culture that Jackson has. And I like his emphasis on team play with a lot of ball and player movement. My worries are with his ability to execute his vision so far. His trades are mostly meh so far. But even the rumored Bledsoe one has him going after a young, quality point guard and still having a first round draft choice. That’s so much a better vision that previous GMs have had, that it can only be applauded. The thing I wonder most about is, if he continues to make very average trades where no one seems to be a winner and we all have something to complain about, but he does so in a way that implements his vision, will that be enough to get us a competitive team that has a chance to be a contender.

3 guys teams are gonna regret passing over for Russell or Mudiay: Zinger, WCS, Okafor

I still anticipate Okafor going 2, but if he gets passed over and drops a bit he’ll prove to be a value pick.

I like WCS quite a bit and have him pegged as the top defensive prospect in the draft. I wouldn’t be upset if the Knicks draft him, but in that case if the Knicks could trade down to do it that’d be nice.

Not a fan of Zinger’s defense and it concerns me very much.

Also I like Richaun Holmes out of Bowling Green State a lot as a potential sleeper candidate for the Knicks. He’s a 6’8 forward with a good mid-range jumper that he stretched out a bit effectively (small sample size) to 3 this past season as a junior.

The most impressive thing about Holmes is his rim protection. Over his career he posted an 11.0 BLK%. That works out to 3.9 blocks per-40 while only averaging 3.7 fouls per-40.

Purely for comparison’s sake Towns posted an 11.5 BLK% this year or 4.5 blocks per-40, but he averaged 5.6 fouls per-40.

Trash Isola and defend Phil all you want, but that article was spot on.
I’m now reading “Eleven Rings”. I wish the knicks could get the Phil that wrote that book.
I’m a fan of his Zen antics, and his accolades speak for themself, but he’s been a big zero for the knicks.

the 03 draft is a bit top heavy and i think this draft is more homogenous… wade, bosh and melo alone would’ve been consensus 1s in any other year.. this draft was shaping up to be like that until russell and okafor fell off a bit..

i like the 04 draft.. there’s some but not real debate over #1 over two center prospects and it’s incredibly deep….

Trash Isola and defend Phil all you want, but that article was spot on.
I’m now reading “Eleven Rings”. I wish the knicks could get the Phil that wrote that book.
I’m a fan of his Zen antics, and his accolades speak for themself, but he’s been a big zero for the knicks.

Somewhere, Capt. Luke is screaming “Amen, brother, tell it like it is!!”

I parse words for a living, and I’m amazed that people are harsh about the Jax interview. His Tweets, sure – but the interview revealed little while likely presenting some misdirection. Would people prefer the Donnie Walsh “we are definitely taking Steph Curry” approach? If I remember, everyone was incredibly upset about that, and rightly so. (The playoffs were difficult to watch for me…there but for one pick goes the centerpiece of a championship Knicks team…)

Phil defended Mills being at the draft by saying he’s the future of the franchise: not unreasonable for a dude who’s in his 70s and was brought in to change the culture and obviously isn’t going to be part of it in 10 years. He said they were looking at 30 players, now that they had fallen to #4, which of course is exactly what they should be doing, and no reason not to say it. His comments about maybe going small, now that they are out of the Top 2 picks, again, are both obvious – Russell and Mudiay have been the clear next choices (despite my strong feeling that WCS is the surest thing outside of Towns), and opening up the potential pick to any player means that no other team knows what the Knicks are going to do. And he talked about the future of the team in terms of complementary pieces, players who could play well together within a system.

Do I like the system? No. But it’s a system. And I am thrilled that the days of Zeke trading for two players who obviously won’t work together (Z-Bo and Curry) while mortgaging the future, and the days of Donnie W telling everyone who they should pick ahead of us, are over.

Jax could still screw up totally, but that interview was great politics and positioning. Isola is just pissed that he didn’t get it.

Previous thread:


“Star Role Player”? Really? Was Ben Wallace a star role player? How about Tyson Chandler? Bill Russell? What if Wallace or Chandler could knock down 3s? What if they could dive OR pop in the PnR? What if they had a post-up game?

Yes, that’s exactly what I mean: Wallace was a star role player, as was Chandler (though he was closer to an actual star). I’m trying to put a name to a simple concept: that “stars” are players who can do all the right things well (LeBron, Magic, Jordan, Bird, Timmy, CP3), and role players can only do a few of the right things well (Bruce Bowen, Novak, Fareid, Metta World Peace, much of the current NBA). A “star role player” performs his role, however limited, exceedingly well (Rodman, Ben Wallace, Kyle Korver). Bowen was a good role player – 3 and D – but he is fairly replaceable. Rodman is really difficult to replace, because he is so extraordinarily good at his role. They both contribute value – from playing to their strengths and avoiding their weaknesses – but star role players are so proficient at that value that they make the team much better than a replacement player doing the same things would.

So I see the floor for WCS as a role player – D’ing up the best player on the other team, basic PnR stuff on O – but he could be a star role player if he can do those as well as it seems he can. If you are looking at that video and saying he can be an actual star, well, with that hitch on his release, his outside shot isn’t ready for prime time, and his handle is weak, so I wouldn’t trust him to face up, and though I suspect his relatively weak rebounding is due to playing away from the basket, the numbers do say that he is a pedestrian rebounder at best. Few would dispute he has further to go than KAT, Okafor, Russell, even Mudiay, probably Zinger, maybe others, too). But I see little bust potential and strong enough star role player potential that he seems a…

I say trade this pick down no lower than 7 for whatever you can get out of it and target WCS. Even if he goes, you still may get Mudiay.

though I suspect his relatively weak rebounding is due to playing away from the basket, the numbers do say that he is a pedestrian rebounder at best

I think this is fair. He’s been a mediocre-bad rebounder on both ends of the court for 3 seasons of college ball. His role may have made him look worse, but the fair conclusion is that he’s just not a good rebounder. Which is weird considering his size/athleticism, but it seems to be a definite problem

And I am thrilled that the days of Zeke trading for two players who obviously won’t work together (Z-Bo and Curry) while mortgaging the future

Melo and Monroe also seem to be two players who won’t work together–Monroe at the 5 and Melo at the 4 would be pretty much just as bad a fit as Curry at the 5 and Z-Bo at the 4, for the same reason: zero rim protection. So instead you have to play a 31-year old Melo at the 3, where he is really too slow to guard anybody.


I’d prefer Lopez or even Asik. But what are ye gonna do? They’re flat butts.

If James Dolan called I’d say swap the #57 for Memphis 1st rd next year and you got yourself a deal.

We are sooooo trading this pick. Probably to someone that is dying for Zinger. Orlando, Detroit, Boston, Phoenix, Indy all might try to move up.

I like Denver as a trade partner, but I’d probably prefer Faried to Lawson. Faried is a lot cheaper. If you could nab Faried and WCS, and then sign Danny Green, that’s a pretty solid, athletic lineup right there. Maybe we can buy the Lakers’ late 1st and grab Delon Wright or Tyus Jones too.

I would sooo love to dump Calderon’s salary that taking on Lawson is attractive. At least he gives you something on both ends. me out here. Lawson..Dragic..Bledsoe..for what??? None of those guys fit the triangle. Actually..Dragic could be a decent fit. But unless you are a dynamic scoring perimeter player, there is no place in the triangle for a guard that needs the ball. Period. I like all 3 players. But let’s be they really fit? Can we win with Lawson paired with Melo? Or Bledsoe? Or Dragic? Are they star level complimentary players or better than Melo? Phoenix would rather have Brandon Knight over Bledsoe- probably because of health concerns. Didn’t they already try Lawson in the triangle in Denver? Dragic is pretty versatile, but at that price he better be putting up bonafide 2nd star numbers or be a frontcourt player who can score and rebound. Actually, let me check myself. I’m all for Dragic. Suppose Phil can draft a WCS and add Monroe and Dragic this offseason. That’s a pretty nice lineup right? Not great defensively, but a lot of ball movement which helps Melo get the ball where he likes it. Love him or hate him, Melo’s our best player until Phil trades him. So we hafta look at building around what we have. I prefer to see Melo at the 4, and I think we all do here- but I’m ok with a forward tandem of Monroe and Melo. If that really is the way Phil’s leaning, then I prefer a better defender at the 2. One that can guard the opponents best perimeter threat. Shump was supposed to be that guy, but Phil had to include him to get rid of JR. So how can Phil rebuild that backcourt? Is Danny Green that good a defender? Is Dragic that good a defender? Who else is out there? I’d love to add Carroll, but he and Melo play the same position. Hmm…how about no Monroe, move Melo to PF and goin after Carroll and Green? Oh..and drafting WCS or Okafor. Is that feasible?

Big men that don’t rebound or play d just don’t do it for me. Your defense is virtually a lock to be terrible if there’s no rim protector. But as the zingers stock rises so does our trade down potential..

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