2014-15 Game Thread: Knicks @ Grizzlies

So we have to hope that the Knicks play poorly enough to lose but also somehow persuade Marc Gasol to come play for them next season.

This game should be a laugher, so just watch this one surprise us with a tough effort.

Let me take a moment to pay my respects to longtime NBA reporter Stuart Scott, who passed away yesterday at the age of 49. All of the on-air tributes to him were quite moving.

Knicks Go? Let’s!

EDITED TO ADD: In major news, Iman Shumpert and JR Smith have been traded to Cleveland and Sam Dalembart has been waived. The details of the deal are not yet revealed. The Knicks are either getting Reggie Jackson or Dion Waiters. Please let it be Jackson!

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160 thoughts to “2014-15 Game Thread: Knicks @ Grizzlies”

  1. Looks like Shump is also gone with JR. Knicks might be getting Reggie Jackson from OKC.

  2. Dion Waiters to OKC, Shump and JR to Cleveland, Reggie Jackson to the Knicks. Jackson’s cap hold is a little bit less than Shump’s, so this cuts into the Knicks’ cap space a bit, since they’re obviously plan to re-sign Jackson, but not in a significant way. This is a good trade, although Jackson is still mostly interesting as an upside player and not just what he does now (although he is instantly the Knicks’ best scorer). Still, he’s 24 and that gives the Knicks their point guard for the next few seasons.

  3. I was afraid we were going to end up with Waiters there for a second

    Just the fact Jackson isn’t dumb enough to deal for Waiters is good news for me.

  4. Dalembert is part of the trade too. The biggest salary cap impact assuming no long term contracts are going to the Knicks is getting rid of JR’s salary for next year, that is huge. Plus they dont have to keep RJ who so far statistically has been an average player although you would think he would be part of their future plans potentially. Im curious to see if any future draft picks are involved.

  5. Interesting trade. I liked Shump so I am bummed about that, but I like getting a budding PG and shaving some cap space. Will be interesting to see how Fish uses him.

    Looks like some got their wish from the start of the year too of a combo of Shumb/JR or TH2 being traded. However, given our recent history, I’ll reserve my judgment.

  6. @11 right?

    Isiah totally would have traded for Waiters. And given up a pick in the deal.

  7. If the Knicks can get a pick and/or Haywood contract I will shout for joy. However part of me does not believe this is happening. This is just like the close games the knicks play and lose in the end. They paying tricks with me.

    Jackson is not that great but he does penetrate and the knicks would have his rights and can go above the cap to sign him while getting other FAs. Bring on Matthews and tobias Harris.

  8. I would think this trade might also possibly clear up a roster spot or 2 to call up Galloway for Greek Freak’s bro maybe??

  9. I loved Shump but it just wasn’t ever gonna happen. Good luck to him in Cleveland. He should be able to do what Chalmers and Cole could do for LeBron, hopefully (for his sake).

  10. Jackson is the only player that wasn’t a disappointment to his team. He played and scored a lot while Westbrook was out. Is there a backstory as to why OKC apparently decided he was not a keeper?

  11. Jackson is a restricted FA and the Thunder who are known to be cheap had no plans on re-signing him from everything Ive read. Plus i know he can be pretty frustrating with his shot selection.

  12. I havent seen Woj tweet in the past 15 mins, I havent read anything from him saying no Jackson to the Knicks. Gotta keep refreshing Twitter I guess lol.

  13. I haven’t seen a new tweet at all in ten minutes. Is it my browser or did we break Twitter?

  14. On MSG they are not saying who Knicks get. Dalembert is being waived. As giddy as Shump’s two good games a month made some of us this seems like an addition by subtraction move or at least one step back so there is a chance to take two steps forward.

  15. “Knicks now officially Coles team”

    Nah, Reggie Jackson will be the straw that stirs the drink.

  16. MSG broadcast team says definately no Jackson. Steve Popper says

    Lance Thomas, Kirk, and Amundsen to the knicks plus future 2nd. Expect the 3 to be cut.

  17. Berman tweeted that the Knicks arent getting any roster players back that its strictly a salary dump bit dunno how considering the amount of salary they are trading away.

  18. Surprised the Knicks couldn’t even get a second rounder for Dalembert given the number of injured big men out there. And if we’re not getting anything of use back I guess Shump was the sweetener to dump JR’s contract. Whatever. Bring on Galloway I guess.

  19. With JR gone the Knicks need to seriously think about cut n stretching Calderon contract this summer

  20. If this is just a salary dump, I guess I’m okay with it. Yet another C-level trade, though. I’d love to see a clear win.

  21. Jason Smith is probably our most critical piece when it comes to tanking

    Final score: Memphis 120 Knicks 40

  22. And the dramatic shake-up pays immediate dividends as our Knickertankers jump out to a fast 11-2 deficit!

  23. Gotta love the Shane Larkin-Jose Calderon-Tim Hardaway Jr triple guard attack, in which the flipper-armed, 5’2″ Shane Larkin is easily the best defensive player.

    The East is small, man.

  24. Well fox sports guy on Twitter said that the trade details are still unclear and that Its not as reported. And Woj has been quiet for 22 min.

  25. So it seems basically we had to give up Shump just to get someone to take JR. That’s all Shump ended up being worth. That and a 2nd rounder.

    A bit disappointing in the end.

  26. Could it be another deal with OKC coming soon for Jackson. I only ask because if they included any other players they would not have enough players to legally play tonight’s game.

  27. You know, tanking would be much cooler if we had our pick next year too.

    Can’t we convince Toronto that Melo can help them win the east this year and figure out how to get our pick back??

  28. So it seems basically we had to give up Shump just to get someone to take JR. That’s all Shump ended up being worth. That and a 2nd rounder.

    A bit disappointing in the end.

    It sure looks like it. And if that’s the case, I’m okay with it, but yeah, not exactly a great deal. Hopefully more details will be revealed soon!

  29. It’s not that Woj has been silent, but that Twitter has been well and truly bollixed for the last half hour or so.

  30. I mean, it’s not a disappointing deal, it’s a disappointing reality. I wanted him to succeed so badly, he just didn’t.

    God bless him for doing the jet up the sideline of the Boston garden though. And those 3 straight 3 pointers against Indiana before Woodson inexplicably yanked him from the game. And those steals on Derrick Rose & Dwyane Wade.

    I wanted to believe.

  31. Also, getting away from Ny might be the best thing for JR especially in a contract year next year.

    getting away from NY might be great for Shump too.

  32. !!!

    @ESPNSteinLine: Knicks are expected to receive a future first-round pick from Oklahoma City as part of three-way trade involving Thunder and Cavaliers

  33. It’s not that Woj has been silent, but that Twitter has been well and truly bollixed for the last half hour or so.

    I knew it! Guys we broke the Twitter! Kim Kardashian couldn’t do it but knicks Twitter did

  34. First rounder and no Waiters? I can roll with that.

    Knicks actually playing a semblance of defense right now

  35. I know people talk about Gasol but Koufos is the more likely Center to be a knick. imo.

  36. Bye shump and JR. You were underachievers but you were ours. I’ll miss them in a weird way.

    Now trade Calderon plz

  37. The team looks a bit rattled. Even given the personnel on the floor, they are missing a lot of shots. They have energy, but they’re not smooth when shooting.

  38. …wow. First rounder.
    I’m so used to us giving up first rounders for shit…
    I won’t miss Shump or JR. Low IQ guys.
    Could give two shits about Dalembert, too.

    Brian, looks like it’s a pure win for the Knicks.

  39. @ESPNSteinLine: Knicks are expected to receive a future first-round pick from Oklahoma City as part of three-way trade involving Thunder and Cavaliers

    DO anyone at Espn really break news? I mean how credible is Stein?

  40. Also, waiters to okc makes a pick much more valuable

    Ha! Too true! Hopefully it is a 2015 pick.

  41. Windhorst:
    “As part of the discussions, Dion Waiters would go to the Thunder, J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert would go to the Cavs and several players with nonguaranteed contracts would go to the Knicks including Lance Thomas from the Thunder, sources said.

    The Cavs pulled Lou Amundson and Alex Kirk, both of whom have nonguaranteed deals, out of their game with the Philadelphia 76ers on Monday night. Smith was pulled from the Knicks game in Memphis as well.

    Both the Cavs and Thunder have trade exceptions that can be used to facilitate the trades.”

  42. Don’t Cavs need a PF/C type? JR and Collison to Cavs, Waiters and Shump to OKC, 1st round pick/fillers to NYK. All 3 teams have large trade exceptions which could facilitate almost any combination.

  43. 2015 pick would be amazing because at best OKC will finish with the 7th or 8th seed so the pick wont be in the late 20’s but i doubt it is a 2015 pick. Maybe 2016 which at least would mean the Knicks have something that draft??

  44. well there it is – Woj finally speaks – OKC is sending a protected future 1st to the Knicks!!

    Not an A++ job (would’ve rather had Reggie Jackson), but overall really happy with this.

    We needed to get JR off the team, both for culture and 2015 cap.
    I love Shump but we’ve honestly been held back by his untapped potential. And there was no way we were going to have an $8MM cap hold or whatever it is to retain his bird rights.

    If at the end of the day we traded JR and Shump for an extra $6.4MM in cap space + even a late 1st round pick, that’s a HUGE win – especially considering most of us would’ve been happy if we had traded Shump to OKC last year for a late 1st (without dumping JR)

  45. 2015 pick would be amazing because at best OKC will finish with the 7th or 8th seed so the pick wont be in the late 20’s but i doubt it is a 2015 pick. Maybe 2016 which at least would mean the Knicks have something that draft??

    My guess it is a 2017 pick, protected in case Durant leaves.

  46. I’d take the first round pick in 2016 since we don’t have a pick in that draft. But if we could get one this year, that works too. What if we end up with a pick in the late teens and mid twenties that turns into Montrezl Harrell?

  47. I hope Phil’s planning to use that 1st round pick to unload Calderon. We enter summer: Melo/Cole/Timmy plus Top 3 pick plus 30m of free cap.

  48. The Shump/first round pick aspect is a wash, but dumping JR without taking on salary is a big deal. Jackson’s first great move as President.

  49. Phil Jackson sure seems a lot smarter than he did three hours ago. Dumping JR, cutting the cord on Shump and getting back a pick along with young guys who haven’t proven themselves (like Shump in all honesty) seems like a steal.

  50. The young guys are all going to be cut. This is all about the pick and dumping Smith’s salary. Which is very good.

  51. Looks like we will have about $25-26MM in cap space — about 32.7MM in guaranteed contracts for 4 players (Melo, Calderon, Timmy, Early) plus our 1st round pick (probably ~4.5MMish) + ~3.7MM in cap holds for empty roster spots = about $41MM. Per Larry Coon the projected cap for 2015 is 66.5MM, but that’s assuming there’s no “smoothing” of the huge cap increase expected for 2016 when the new TV deal kicks in.

    From Zach Lowe’s article back in October:

    Several teams have been operating for months under the assumption the cap would reach at least $70 million for 2015-16

    This all just go so interesting.

  52. And I thought this game would probably be almost unwatchable with nothing to talk about . . .

  53. It’s definitely Langston Galloway time now, given all the space in the backcourt. And it may be Greek Freaquel time as well, assuming they think he would play enough to be worth pulling him from Westchester.

  54. Stein saying Cavs get the 1st. What the heck.

    Trade begins to make more sense. Cavs now have 2 first round picks plus Haywood’s contract to try to land a quality center. Lousy trade for us though.

  55. Really really excited about this. JR alone gone is addition by subtraction for the team but his cap sheet being gone by next year is huge especially if the cap is to go as high as potentially expected.

    Also I’m not sure if we would need a first to unload Calderon especially if a PG on a contender gets hurt

    Lastly, I don’t think we’ll be instant contenders or anywhere near it next year – if they can’t find anyone worthy to sign they could also use their cap space to bring over unwanted players from other teams for a pick. There are worse ways to burn through $16 mil (I had no idea they signed him for this much and started writing this paragraph before I saw it was this much but the point still stands) than a David Lee contract year rental and a future 1st round draft pick, just sayin..

  56. Looks like a C. Woj now also saying the 1st is going to Cleveland. How the heck did cleveland do it? They get JR Shump and dump waiters and get a 1st?!?!

  57. Talk about a big ol’ rollercoaster ride just to get us back to the same old, same old.

  58. Cavs got the only decent player in the deal and dumped the backcourt Bargnani and got a first? Great for them, okay for us, and really fucking stupid by OKC.

  59. I thought we would be jumping for joy at the chance to get rid of Jr, and get more cap space for this summer… Not sure what type of trade value you guys thought Shump had, but I would venture to say it wasnt a first round pick so…

  60. Yeah it seems the player with by far the most value in this trade was for some reason Waiters which is why OKC I guess had to give up a future 1st rd pick to get him. For the Knicks its almost identical to the Walsh trades leading up to the summer of 2010.

  61. As long as the cavs refrain from playing jr much this is awesome for them. Shump can definitely help their wing rotation and they shed Dion and they get a future 1st. Not sure wtf OKC is doing.

  62. Youvtrade any thing of value so that Dion Waiters can take shots from Kevin Durant and I give you an F minus every time

  63. Yeah this is all super weird. Let’s see what the official trade call says. Theres no way Presti gives up a first and gets freaking Dion Waiters for his trouble.

  64. Forget about what the Cavs get or don’t get. Think about what the Knicks gave up and got in return.

    They gave up JR, who was going to be 6.4M next year. He sucks in every offense/defense/personality stat I can think of.

    They gave up Iman, who they were getting rid of this summer anyway.

    They gave up Dalembert, who was playing horribly.

    What are the negatives of the trade again?

  65. Wow I missed a ton of action!
    Even without the first rounder I like the trade. Dumping JR is huge and Shump just ain’t good. But hell, I want that 1st.

  66. Well a C is better than the F- that were all the trades with Masai and Morey. ????

    Oh definitely.

  67. Its kind of funny that anyone thought we would dump Jr Smith AND get a future first-rounder in the same deal…LOL

  68. My guess is Cavs will use those 2 1st round picks plus some combination Shump, JR and Haywood contracts to try to land Hibbert who’s got a player option.

    OKC is in “win now” mode and Waiters is not a bad pickup for a protected late 1st round pick.

    Shump and Timmy are our only real sweeteners so I would rather Shump have been used to dump Calderon. Some team like Kings might have wanted JR, JR might not have exercised his option, and worst case we could have waived-and-stretched at 2m cap hit.

  69. Of the guys the Knicks are getting Im curious to see who if any they keep. Maybe Kirk because he is a rookie center?? Cut the other 2 and use the remaining roster spots to bring in Galloway and maybe Greek Freak bro??

  70. Yeah the future 1st is the best player in this deal. Followed perhaps by Shump when he isn’t injured?
    Btw I think we keep Admundson. We had interest in him the last couple summers.

  71. I will say this is really selling Shump at his most possible low. They basically used him to get rid of JR.

  72. Shump and Timmy are our only real sweeteners so I would rather Shump have been used to dump Calderon. Some team like Kings might have wanted JR, JR might not pick up his option, and worst case we could waive-and-stretch at 2m cap hit.

    Yeah, exactly. Trading Shump for a 2019 second rounder and clearing $2 million from next year’s cap just isn’t a particularly good trade. It’s better than nothing, but just so.

  73. This isn’t even a three way trade if nothing is going from NY to OKC.

    The way I see it, Cleveland got the two best players in the deal, dumped the worst player, and got a first round pick in exchange for taking on $6.4mm of JR salary next year.

    The Thunder inexpicably gave up a first for a bad basketball player.

    And the knicks dumped salary and got nothing back.

    Seems weird.

  74. Wonder if the Knicks would be so desperate to get rid of J.R. if they didn’t acquire what (to date) appears to be a complete and utter stiff in Jose Calderon making roughly the same money. Couple that with his failure to pick up a first rounder in the same Chandler deal, neglecting to resign Shane Larkin for chump change, getting virtually nothing for Shumpert, whiffing on Kerr and hiring a completely-out-of-his-depth Derek Fisher, I’m not sure how you guys manage to feel optimistic about Phil Jackson whatsoever. Looking forward to him shelling out 20 million for a 36-win team with no first round pick next year.

  75. Phil obviously decided we weren’t going to re-sign Shump, so using him to dump worthless ass JR makes sense

  76. Awesome news about the Sixers. Dellavedova, crunchtime option isn’t looking great.

  77. What exactly should a 5 win team get for it’s two biggest underachievers?? We basically have another Shump in Greek Freak 2 waiting in the wings. TH2 is basically JR without the crazy. I’m fine with clearing cap. Selling Jax, Melo, and the Garden to free agents is all we’ve got (besides our tanktastic pick!)

  78. Would/should the knicks try to trade THjr with Calderon for Cap space? Would there be takers?

  79. I think now we have to keep THjr as a player to develop on a rookie contract going forward…

  80. Would the knicks have been able to get the 1st if they didn’t include JR? If so why not just get the pick then cut Jr in the summer?

  81. Who’s giving us a 1st for a guy who’s up for a biggish contract and has been a major disappointment?

  82. You have to think Phil has been shopping Shump for months, he had to know what his value really was.

  83. I’m bittersweet about Shump, having rooted so hard for him from day 1. He had a fair chance this year and started off well, but never really could play consistently well or stay healthy.

    THRILLED to have JR gone.

    I think its fair to say that Phil has made some “rookie” mistakes, but unless you hate the Melo signing, none are of the franchise-crippling variety. I am hoping that we finally have a stud #1 pick in the fold, and that we use the cap space to sign a couple of hard-nosed, hungry, smart players like Wesley Matthews.

  84. Not arguing that it’s a horrible trade, just that it’s not an especially good one, and the early returns on Jackson have been pretty underwhelming.

  85. One way in which Jackson seems different from Walsh is that Walsh broke up a team very early in the season when it was actually playing pretty well. Jackson gave the team a good chsnce to play well before acting. With Walsh, I was always worried we were giving up too much. With this trade, the Knicks are apparently saving $30M dollars and they are definitely clearing cap room. Realistically, they can’t get much worse than they are this season so it’s hard to make the case the trade will hurt them. The trick will be to use the cap space to acquire players who aren’t just JR 2 and Shump 2.

  86. Look, if we’re not re-signing Shump, we used half a year of a decent player with some shrinking upside to get rid of an awful player making 6 million bucks next year. Since we’re so bad, that half year of Shump is no value to the Knicks. We dealt nothing to rid ourselves of JR, which increases our ability to get something next year. That’s a good trade. Not great, but it’s cool.

  87. Look, if we’re not re-signing Shump, we used half a year of a decent player with some shrinking upside to get rid of an awful player making 6 million bucks next year. Since we’re so bad, that half year of Shump is no value to the Knicks. We dealt nothing to rid ourselves of JR, which increases our ability to get something next year. That’s a good trade. Not great, but it’s cool.

    +1

  88. We can definitely beat Philly in a race to the bottom. And the last time the team with the worst record won the draft lottery was 2003 when Cleveland got some guy named James.

    So the odds are in our favor, right? Right?

  89. Since we’re so bad, that half year of Shump is no value to the Knicks. We dealt nothing to rid ourselves of JR, which increases our ability to get something next year. That’s a good trade. Not great, but it’s cool.

    Out the door for Okafor.

    Travis Wear is currently in possession of one of the most secure jobs on the Knicks.

  90. Obviously I have no idea what the market for Shumpert is, but if they hadn’t acquired Calderon, they wouldn’t have had to handcuff him to a J.R. Smith trade. It also might have behooved them to let these guys play a little rather than dump them at their lowest possible value. Given the dearth of good perimeter defenders out there, I’d like to think Shumpert is worth more than a 2019 second round pick, but I’m just a schmuck with a laptop.

  91. This is all becoming eerily similar to 2009/10. The Knicks are putting all their eggs into free agency, giving up assets to create cap space rather than higher upside assets (picks, young players). We’re backing ourselves into a corner where if the FAs don’t come here, there will be no plan B, no young players to develop, no picks to look forward to.

    People are asking what the loss is. Well, the loss is we could have just let Smith and Felton expire, moved Shumpert and Chandler for actual pieces/picks, and just waited out the bad contracts, paid our dues.

    Instead, we are trying to build around a star who at best is fairly paid and free agency, which is almost always the most expensive way of adding talent. You need good value/$ to win titles. Other than our draft pick, who probably won’t approach his prime until 2017/18, and Hardaway Jr, who doesn’t look like much more than an 8th man, Jordan Crawford type, we don’t have much value talent.

    You can add to the case against Jackson’s plan that last summer his comments implied he didn’t expect the knicks to be anywhere near this bad, so that suggests he was indifferent to the pick and believed free agency alone could lift the Knicks into contention. Smells like hubris.

    Then again, Phil’s ex-nemesis, Pat Riley, arguably had just as much hubris, accidentally tanking in 02/03 when Mourning’s kidney’s gave out and ending up with Wade, then taking a wild gamble on Shaq. What if Shaq hadn’t gotten healthy just in time for the playoffs? What if Wade hadn’t emerged that season as one of the 5 best players in the league? What if the refs hadn’t been so generous in the finals? That’s going all in on the river and then making your inside straight…

    And then the unprecedented decision by Bosh and James to come to Miami…

  92. This team wasn’t winning as is. It wasn’t going to win by building upon it. This trade gives the Knicks flexibility to build something new. Whether or not they’re able to achieve that remains to be seen, but I’m giving Phil the benefit of the doubt, basically because what else do we have? He’s here. This is his opportunity to bite after his bark. And I’m fairly sure that Dolan isn’t impeding, which is a huge step forward.

    Also, the trade exceptions are a huge part of this deal. I don’t think Phil’s looking strictly at the free agent market to build this team. The rest of this season is a giant petri dish. I don’t think we’re done.

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