Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Sunday, May 26, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2019.05.16)

  • [Sports Illustrated] Report: Grizzlies Want to Draft Ja Morant With No. 2 Pick, Leaving R.J. Barrett Open for Knicks
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 7:43:40 PM)

    Morant became the first player in NCAA history to average at least 20 points and 10 assists per game in a single season.

  • [Hoops Rumors] Knicks’ Dotson Undergoes Surgery On Torn Labrum
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:49:31 PM)

    Knicks shooting guard Damyean Dotson underwent surgery today on his right shoulder to repair a torn labrum, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic (Twitter link). According to Charania, Dotson is expected to be ready for the start of training camp. As Ian Begley of SNY.tv reports (via Twitter), there was an expectation before Dotson […]

  • [Hoops Rumors] Lottery Notes: Pelicans, Knicks, Cavs, Bulls, C’s
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 10:30:44 AM)

    Tuesday night was a massive one for the Pelicans, who won the 2019 draft lottery despite entering the night with just a 6.0% of landing that top pick. As William Guillory of The Athletic details, head coach Alvin Gentry was representing the team in the drawing room and was ecstatic when he learned that the […]

  • [TheRinger] Knicks’ Dotson Undergoes Surgery On Torn Labrum
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:49:31 PM)

    Knicks shooting guard Damyean Dotson underwent surgery today on his right shoulder to repair a torn labrum, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic (Twitter link). According to Charania, Dotson is expected to be ready for the start of training camp. As Ian Begley of SNY.tv reports (via Twitter), there was an expectation before Dotson […]

  • [TheRinger] Lottery Notes: Pelicans, Knicks, Cavs, Bulls, C’s
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 10:30:44 AM)

    Tuesday night was a massive one for the Pelicans, who won the 2019 draft lottery despite entering the night with just a 6.0% of landing that top pick. As William Guillory of The Athletic details, head coach Alvin Gentry was representing the team in the drawing room and was ecstatic when he learned that the […]

  • [YahooSports] New York Daily News trolls Knicks’ lottery failure with hilariously perfect Zion backpage
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 1:58:16 PM)

    Tuesday night was not a good night to be a New York Knicks fan. The Knicks had a 14 percent chance of landing the No. 1 pick — and Zion Williamson along with it — and ended up with the No. 3 pick instead. With the opening of one giant novelty envelope, all the Zion-related possibilities were snapped out of existence forever. Knicks fans mourned, as they were entitled to do.

  • [YahooSports] NBA mock draft: Why the Knicks aren’t doomed after losing Zion lottery
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:13:36 PM)

    SportsPulse: Scott Gleeson breaks down USA TODAY Sports’ latest NBA mock draft and how teams will rebound after missing out on top prospect Zion Williamson.

  • [YahooSports] 2019 NBA Draft Lottery Winners and Losers: Pelicans, Tanking for the W; Bulls, Knicks take an L
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:00:00 PM)

    The 2019 NBA Draft Lottery, the most bizarre ritual in the four major American sports, has taken place and the New Orleans Pelicans have won the Zion Williamson sweepstakes. In early February, former Cavs general manager David Griffin tweeted that the Pelicans should drive a hard bargain in trade talks for Anthony Davis because the Pelicans, in Davis, “have a Top 3 most attractive trade asset in the league.” At the time, Griffin was an NBATV analyst and SiriusXM host, and was responding to an ESPN report that the Lakers had upped their offer to the Pelicans.

  • [SNY Knicks] Grizzlies’ eyes set on Ja Morant, leaving RJ Barrett for Knicks at No. 3: report
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:29:50 PM)

    Duke’s RJ Barrett will reportedly be there for the Knicks at No. 3 on draft night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Former Knick Isiah Thomas on offseason: ‘They’re positioned to have a great summer’
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 10:47:14 PM)

    Hall of Fame guard and former Knicks president Isiah Thomas believes New York has a chance to turn things around quickly this summer.

  • [SNY Knicks] How potential Knicks’ package for Anthony Davis could compare to what Celtics, Lakers offer
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:26:06 PM)

    Assuming New Orleans has to deal Anthony Davis this summer, which teams can make the best offers? And how can the Knicks push themselves to the front of that group?

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Damyean Dotson underwent surgery on torn labrum Wednesday
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 3:36:08 PM)

    Knicks SG Damyean Dotson underwent surgery to repair a torn labrum in his right shoulder, SNY’s Ian Begley confirmed on Wednesday.

  • [SNY Knicks] WATCH: Knicks fans react to missing out on Zion Williamson
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:36:03 AM)

    There was an 86 percent chance the Knicks and their fans were going to be disappointed after the NBA Draft Lottery on Tuesday night.

  • [NYTimes] Lebanon Dispatch: Basketball Is ‘War, Minus the Shooting’ in Sectarian Lebanon
    (Thursday, May 16, 2019 9:00:13 AM)

    The professional basketball season resembles an election campaign, with party colors adorning team jerseys and banners of political patrons hanging in stadiums. Then there are the insults and riots.

  • [NYTimes] Brook Lopez Breaks Out for the Bucks in a Game 1 Win Over the Raptors
    (Thursday, May 16, 2019 4:46:33 AM)

    Lopez scored 13 of his 29 points in the fourth quarter as Milwaukee rallied in the final minutes.

  • [NYTimes] Why Does a Bucks Security Guard Look Familiar? He Used to Play for the Team
    (Thursday, May 16, 2019 3:12:29 AM)

    Dick Garrett was part of the 1974 Milwaukee Bucks team that lost in the finals. Now, as a security guard, he has a front-row seat to watch Giannis Antetokounmpo.

  • [NYTimes] Enes Kanter Is Playing, so Many N.B.A. Fans in Turkey Can’t Watch
    (Thursday, May 16, 2019 9:11:14 AM)

    Kanter’s team, the Portland Trail Blazers, played a conference final on Wednesday, but Turkish fans had a hard time finding it.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Losing the Lottery Might Be the Least of the Knicks’ Problems
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:15:27 PM)

    The promise of Zion Williamson was ejected from Madison Square Garden, a reminder of how difficult it will be for the Knicks to return to the center of the N.B.A. universe.

  • [NYTimes] Sonya and Dell Curry Mastered Cheering for Their Sons. But Not at the Same Time.
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 9:04:11 PM)

    For the first time in N.B.A. history, brothers — Stephen and Seth Curry — are up against each other in a conference finals. This is tricky — for their parents.

  • [NYTimes] W.N.B.A. Selects Cathy Engelbert as Commissioner
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:53:31 PM)

    The chief executive of Deloitte has been hired to be the commissioner of the league, which is rebranding and engaged in labor negotiations.

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. Draft Lottery Recap: Pelicans Win No. 1 Pick, and the Right to Select Zion Williamson
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 12:31:53 PM)

    New Orleans faces the decision of whether to select the N.B.A.’s most hyped prospect since LeBron James or to trade the pick for a king’s ransom of assets.

  • [NYPost] Knicks guard Damyean Dotson undergoes shoulder surgery
    (Thursday, May 16, 2019 12:46:10 AM)

    CHICAGO — Damyean Dotson, who ended the final stretch of this past season as the Knicks’ starting shooting guard, underwent surgery Wednesday to repair a torn labrum in his right shoulder and is expected to be back for the start of training camp, according to a source. If the Knicks select Duke swingman RJ Barrett…

  • [NYPost] Barrett or Morant? Knicks begin working on draft decision they won’t get to make
    (Wednesday, May 15, 2019 2:37:36 PM)

    CHICAGO — As Zion Williamson left town, Knicks brass interviewed his Duke wingman, RJ Barrett, Wednesday morning, according to an NBA source. In the afternoon, the Knicks grilled Murray State point guard Ja Morant. After months of hope, landing Williamson is out of the picture. As a result, the Knicks, picking third in the draft…

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    209 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2019.05.16)

    1. Hubert

      It’d be interesting to see what would happen if he withdrew from the draft and then in September tried to sign overseas- I’m guessing the NBA would put pressure on the China/Euro leagues not to sign him (and I’m sure neither would want to cross the NBA- not even for Zion) if there’s not some sort of rule to prevent it already.

      I would imagine he just goes back to Duke and let’s Nike keep paying his grandmother or however it works there.

      Zion refusing to play for anyone would be bad for the league. Even if it helps us, I hope it doesn’t happen. I don’t want to win that way.

      You think any Broncos or Giants felt even a smidge of regret when Elway and Eli won them Super Bowls?

      Also, who do you mean by the league? The cartel of 30 owners? They’d be mad, sure. But is it really bad for the people who watch the league?

      You know what was bad for the league? Wasting 12 years of Chris Paul and Anthony Davis in New Orleans. Getting Zion to a real team – and I don’t even care if it’s us, frankly, just get him out of New Orleans – is *great* for the league.

    2. Z-man

      I hate when I post just before a new thread comes up!

      I totally disagree with the Goldman Sachs analogy. the NBA is an association with a vested interest in competitive balance. It can’t be compared to an autonomous corporation who would be thrilled if its competition went under. Goldman does not share revenue with its competition to prop them up!

      It’s ludicrous to make comparisons regarding the employer-employee relationship. Sure, we and Zion got screwed by the lottery, sure, teams will still tank , and sure, there might be better ideas out there. But discouraging tanking while accomplishing balance while penalizing mismanagement is a tall order.

    3. Frank

      I think I feel good about either trading the #3 pick for a vet, or trying to trade down in some way to draft Brandon Clarke.

      #3 is almost certainly going to be RJ Barrett, and if KD/Kyrie are coming, it just really doesn’t make sense to take a guy whose greatest strength is on-ball passing and scoring and who has questionable defensive aptitude. I am actually higher on RJ than others here, but we need to maximize the KD/Kyrie window, and RJ doesn’t do that. I would be in favor of something like #3 + DSJ for Covington + #11 +#43 – I think that’s a fair trade since Covington is good, the right age (28), and his contract is an asset. Covington is not really in the right age window for Minny and they might want to reboot with their new GM/POBO. It’s conceivable.

      You could possibly still get Brandon Clarke at #11 (that’s where he is on the tankathon mock draft). A Mitch/Clarke/Covington/Durant – ish front court rotation would be frightening defensively.

      If something like that trade is not available then I wonder whether Atlanta would consider packaging 8+ Taurean Prince for #3? Then we would draft Clarke at #8.

      Brandon Clarke is really just something else statistically. Literally the 2nd highest PER and BPM in NCAA history. Now he is a junior of course, and BPM doesn’t seem to have the same specificity for great pros once you get into the upperclassmen. If you look at BPMs >15 over the last 10 years or so, if you do it as a freshman, you’re probably going to be amazing –> Zion, AD, KAT, and JJJ are the only ones that have done that. As sophomores there are only Ethan Haps and someone named Xavier Tillman from Michigan state this year. As juniors (what Clarke is, and Clarke is actually older than most juniors), you have Clarke, Oladipo, and Gorgui Dieng. As seniors you have a completely different class of players –> Kaminsky, Thornwell, Denzel Valentine, Delon Wright, and Gary Clarke.

    4. Z-man

      Sorry for the ugly repeat post!

      Also, the NBPA is a reasonably strong collective bargaining entity. Not the case with big banks. The CBA is agreed to by the players. They could collectively act to demand change or strike.

    5. Frank

      That said, basically no one in NCAA history has put up the kind of efficiency, block, low TO etc numbers that Clarke has. He totally seems like a switch defender if necessary, and the ability to guard probably 1-4 (1-5 against small ball lineups) AND be an elite rim protector — that’s pretty rare. If he shows he can actually hit FTs and 18 footers consistently in workouts (ie. he may have some ability to play with a traditional center like Mitch without constraining floor spacing too much) then I would be totally fine with drafting him at #3. would prefer trade-down of course but #3 wouldn’t be too high for me.

    6. bobneptune

      It can’t be compared to an autonomous corporation who would be thrilled if its competition went under. Goldman does not share revenue with its competition to prop them up!

      Nah…. they just privatize profits and socialize their loses to the stupid public (too big to fail) when they bollix things up taking outrageous positions to maximize profit. A nice gig if you can get it! :-) :-)

    7. Ntilakilla

      This front office isn’t going to spend a #3 pick on a non-volume scorer like Clarke. Their preferences for young players like Mudiay, DSJ, and Knox tells you what they place premium value upon.

    8. Frank

      This front office isn’t going to spend a #3 pick on a non-volume scorer like Clarke. Their preferences for young players like Mudiay, DSJ, and Knox tells you what they place premium value upon

      maybe true, maybe not. It’s very different trying to fill out a roster when you already have KD and Kyrie than when you have nothing. Even when we had KP there still wasn’t anyone on the perimeter that could go and create something out of nothing. That’s what pretty much all their moves have been – big swings on guys that can theoretically be primary creators (DSJ, Knox, even Mudiay). That obviously won’t be the need if/when KD/Kyrie are here.

      by the way, I know we are all in KP bashing mode now but I actually think he will be pretty awesome playing off of Luka. I hope for the DAL draft picks’ sake he goes and signs with someone else or sucks, but Dallas could be pretty good.

      For some reason I am reading that Dallas wants to sign Kemba Walker. That literally makes no sense at all when you have Luka who should be your primary creator whenever he’s on the floor, and they already have Brunson as a good backup PG. They should be looking for someone like Brogdon or George Hill or other such 3/D combo guard.

    9. Farfa

      It’s very different trying to fill out a roster when you already have KD and Kyrie than when you have nothing.

      I’m a Brandon Clarke stan if there ever was one, but even I wouldn’t spend the #3 on Clarke. If the market says Clarke is in the 8-10 range, why shouldn’t we cash out picking Barrett at #3 and then getting Clarke and something else from someone who wants desperately Barrett?

      Also: while the KD-to-the-Knicks might be a done deal by the time the draft rolls around, there’s not gonna be any ink on the paper. It’s just malpractice drafting for fit before having the players in tow.

      That’s why I advocate drafting Barrett even if I’m not enthused. You have to game the market.

    10. Ntilakilla

      That’s what pretty much all their moves have been – big swings on guys that can theoretically be primary creators (DSJ, Knox, even Mudiay).

      I would also add Hezonja to that mix, but would drop Knox from that group. His college stats did not suggest he was a creator/facilitator at Kentucky.

      by the way, I know we are all in KP bashing mode now but I actually think he will be pretty awesome playing off of Luka.

      You know, I was just thinking about this after watching Brook Lopez go off in last night’s Bucks/Raptors game. It seems to me that having a stretch 5 who can make opposing teams pay at the three-point line when their defenders collapse upon a primary ballhandler is becoming more and more of a must in this league. Both Toronto and the Bucks have that option. Capella looked like an offensive burden this playoffs in large part for that reason. I think KP will benefit the Mavs in that capacity. But I wonder if Dallas is overvaluing that benefit by investing so much draft capital and cap space into getting KP when a Brook Lopez or even a Luke Kornet type player can fill that role adequately.

    11. Hubert

      the NBA is an association with a vested interest in competitive balance.

      This league has the least amount of competitive balance of the four major sports in America. Even the English Premier League has more competitive balance. The NBA is La Liga/Serie A level unbalanced.

      What they care about is competitive valuation of their franchises. As long as there is a lottery, any franchise can be the best. Ergo, this allows them to get enormous entry fees and increases the valuation of every team in the league.

      None of this benefits the fans or the labor (or the taxpayers, whose money is ciphoned away from the municipalities to cover the operating expenses of these teams). This is a cartel.

      Note that I say none of this to get Zion to the Knicks. He can go to Memphis or Charlotte if that’s what he wants. But he should be able to do what he wants. Fuck the league.

    12. Grocer

      he’s still a legit prospect and he does look like an nba player. but for a #3 pick there’s a lot to be concerned about. i think i’m a lot less grateful than 90% of this board that we landed 3rd.

      I’m about as excited to draft Barrett at 3 as I was to draft Knox at 7. Barrett seems like an 8 pick in a reasonable draft. There’s a bunch of guys who look like 5-9 picks. Nobody in this draft looks like a 3 or 4. There were only two excellent prospects, we’re gonna get the overrated, underperforming third. I’d much rather trade down. Barret’s not worth the salary at 3. If there are teams excited about him then fleece them. Or I guess trade it for someone but since we won’t know re: Durant till after the draft…

    13. Frank

      For the record I’d be very content drafting Barrett at 3. seems like a great kid, works hard, competes his ass off. Steve Nash, who would know these things, says he is a really advanced passer for his age:

      RJ Barrett (*yes, is my godson) is a next level playmaker at his age, 18, and size. Makes every read/pass. This is one skill that is easier in many respects due to the rules at the nba level but so damn valuable. Blown away at the reads and deliveries he made (sic) repetatively.

      I mean, it IS valuable to have multiple playmakers on the floor at the same time. Maybe he wouldn’t be ready his rookie year, but one can imagine him stretching out his playmaking skills on the 2nd unit with, say, Frank, Dotson, and Luke Kornet on the floor.

    14. Ntilakilla

      I would feel better about Steve Nash talking up a college prospect’s passing/court vision if that college prospect weren’t his godson.

    15. Donnie Walsh

      You know what was bad for the league? Wasting 12 years of Chris Paul and Anthony Davis in New Orleans. Getting Zion to a real team – and I don’t even care if it’s us, frankly, just get him out of New Orleans – is *great* for the league.

      Seeing as the knicks have been the most mismanaged team in the league for twenty years now, if the NBA is looking for a real team to plant Zion in, the knicks would be last on the list, probably even behind New Orleans, who at least has an excuse for their struggles.

    16. Donnie Walsh

      I haven’t followed the league as closely as usual this year, and especially not the knicks, but I have a question: wouldn’t Noah’s contract be an asset right now to match up in trades, especially since they could be looking to trade the #3 pick for a high level vet? Couldn’t Chris Paul be had for minimal other stuff if we were willing to go over the luxury tax and absorb his contract? His decline would fit the knicks win-now with KD mode, but they just don’t have the salary to match up. Would it make a Davis deal easier to maneuver too?

      I didn’t understand the Noah buyout at the time because there was no advantage to rushing a divorce while his contract could still be potentially useful. I’m just wondering if the knicks are regretting that decision yet, or if that is going to turn out to be a moot event in the lives of the knicks.

    17. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

      Question:
      Does anybody really believe Garland can pull a Kyrie? Meaning play a few games in college and still be good in the pros? Incredibly small sample size, and I haven’t really seem him play, but statistically he fits the profile that we hope DSJ can be. DSJ may pass more, not necessarily better- but again, I haven’t seen Garland. Any thoughts?

    18. Ntilakilla

      if the NBA is looking for a real team to plant Zion in, the knicks would be last on the list, probably even behind New Orleans, who at least has an excuse for their struggles.

      The Pelicans gutted their roster to get DeMarcus Cousins because they were a small market team?

    19. Hubert

      Seeing as the knicks have been the most mismanaged team in the league for twenty years now, if the NBA is looking for a real team to plant Zion in, the knicks would be last on the list, probably even behind New Orleans, who at least has an excuse for their struggles.

      Yeah, man, I read the deadspin article, too. It was bullshit clickbait, not the kind of thing you should be regurgitating in a forum like this.

      Sure, the Knicks are probably in the bottom half of the 30 teams that should have him, based on merit. But holy shit are you dead wrong about them being last on the list and behind New Orleans. The Knicks have never been gifted one of the greatest players of all time and made him obscure for 6 years. New Orleans has already done that twice! There is literally nothing worse than taking a talent like Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, or Zion Williamson and burying them.

      Like I said, I don’t care if the Knicks get him. I don’t care if a large market gets him. I just don’t want him to be made irrelevant for 6 years until he demands a trade and everyone drags his name through the mud. He’s better off getting that out of the way now so he can get on with his career.

    20. Farfa

      There is literally nothing worse than taking a talent like Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, or Zion Williamson and burying them.

      Cue to Adam Silver golf clapping in his secret lair

    21. djphan

      with garland… there’s a lot of volatility in his shooting numbers because he’s absolutely not a 50% 3p shooter… or shooting 58% from 2p land…. so if you regress his numbers to more sane levels he’s probably something like a late lotto talent when healthy…. kyrie had similar numbers but the difference is that his were significantly better and was more well regarded coming in….

      there’s some history of players missing a lot of college games who also wind up missing a lot of pro games also… you see that with kyrie and i bet that’ll happen with darius even if he is as talented as ppl think he is…

      dsj is better…. he’s not the shooter that garland is but he’s better at literally everything else…

    22. thenoblefacehumper

      It’s definitely annoying that New Orleans is getting their third shot at a generational talent in 14 years. Chris Paul and Anthony Davis in their respective primes might be better than literally anyone who has ever played for the Knicks (don’t jump down my throat I missed Clyde by decades and stats from that era are a black box) and it’d be hard to argue that their management has done much of anything better than ours over the years.

      As long as the lottery and draft are in place I don’t really see any solution. Sometimes teams will reap huge benefits arbitrarily. We’ve taken ourselves out of the running for that tons of times in the past by trading away our picks and being bizarrely stubborn about tanking when the benefits were clearer.

    23. Donnie Walsh

      Yeah, man, I read the deadspin article, too. It was bullshit clickbait, not the kind of thing you should be regurgitating in a forum like this.

      I have never read a deadspin article in my life, sorry. I don’t even know what it is.

      I based my comment on what I’ve known about the knicks, intimately, from 1988-2016. Granted, my interest has tapered off recently, so I could be wrong and the Knicks may have turned a managerial corner and be headed on the road to legitimacy, but if the Dolan knicks can get right, then the New Orleans Pelicans can get right too. Crying on behalf of the league for Zion just seems silly to me.

    24. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Clippers adviser Jerry West has reportedly tabbed Morant as the best talent in the draft — better even than Williamson.

    25. Farfa

      Clippers adviser Jerry West has reportedly tabbed Morant as the best talent in the draft — better even than Williamson.

      It’s a good thing that Mr. Logo is slipping right before this free agency

    26. Hubert

      You know, I was just thinking about this after watching Brook Lopez go off in last night’s Bucks/Raptors game. It seems to me that having a stretch 5 who can make opposing teams pay at the three-point line when their defenders collapse upon a primary ballhandler is becoming more and more of a must in this league..

      This is all true, and KP is an excellent player, but you hit on the problem in the rest of your paragraph:

      I think KP will benefit the Mavs in that capacity. But I wonder if Dallas is overvaluing that benefit by investing so much draft capital and cap space into getting KP when a Brook Lopez or even a Luke Kornet type player can fill that role adequately.

      He costs way too much for his role. He adds elite rim protection, so he’s clearly worth a lot more than Lopez and Kornet. But his anemic rebounding forces you to balance your lineup with expensive frontcourt players who can compensate for that.

      Lopez works in Milwaukee bc Giannis and Middleton. If you pay Porzingis $30mm, you’re unlikely to get a Giannis or Middleton. Dallas is fortunate to already have Doncic, so they might get away with it if they can find one more guy (Middleton would actually be a great signing there). But it would have been really hard for us to get around that.

    27. JK47

      Brook Lopez and Luke Kornet aren’t going to waste like 10 possessions every game trying to make heroball moves from the elbow and then shooting fade-away 15 footers because they can’t overpower Marcus Smart

    28. chriskZIPCODE

      I would feel better about Steve Nash talking up a college prospect’s passing/court vision if that college prospect weren’t his godson.

      totally disagree. Think about it. Steve Nash stood with him in a church. prayers were said over him. water placed on his head. We’ve never had anything like that. I could see Nash praying FOR Frank. Or, like me praying Mudiay is gone.

    29. ptmilo

      it’s not useful to talk about what new orleans deserves. when new orleans had chris paul, they had entirely different owners (shinn and then the league) and front offices (jeff bower and a staff that is i believe is 100 percent gone). The front office in the anthony davis era was run by dell demps, who is also gone. and that owner, tom benson, has since died. gayle benson is even replacing mickey loomis as coo. there is roughly zero continuity between those teams and this one, so it really doesn’t make any sense to forecast managerial gloom other than the endemic pitfalls of being in a weak market.

    30. thenoblefacehumper

      David Griffin reminds me a bit of Scott Perry. There’s not much evidence that he’s actually good, but he at least understands the basic market dynamics of the NBA and acts accordingly. It ain’t much, but like Perry for us, it’s more than any recent New Orleans front office can say.

      So yeah, I expect them to go about building around Zion in a way that at least makes sense, even if it doesn’t work out.

    31. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Nah…. they just privatize profits and socialize their loses to the stupid public (too big to fail) when they bollix things up taking outrageous positions to maximize profit. A nice gig if you can get it! :-) :-)

      Someone here understands Wall St. :-)

      Can I assume you aren’t a fan of central banks either?

      If you understand the full role of central banking, you’ll understand how they contribute to the boom/bust cycle, back door wealth transfer, and the enormous wealth gap. Then you are well on your way to understanding how the economy and world really works.

    32. ptmilo

      david griffin kinda freaks me out tbh. i can’t quite put my finger on it, but he somehow gives me a vibe of someone who has a rich life as an anonymous internet conspiracy theorist but is also really good at switching back to a convince faced of reasonableness. i’ve suspected at least nine of you as being possible griffin burner accounts over the years.

    33. Early Bird

      I don’t see it with Barrett. Most of his highlights are shooting 3’s, which he sucks at, and throwing up contested layups as he struggles to get a clean look at the hoop. I don’t think those shots go in at the next level when players are bigger, stronger, and faster. He’s a good passer out of the pick n roll but doesn’t look quick enough to beat his man 1 on 1. He looks like a bust.

    34. thenamestsam

      Clippers adviser Jerry West has reportedly tabbed Morant as the best talent in the draft — better even than Williamson.

      Honestly I’ve come close to putting this take out there a few times but backed off because Zion’s stats are so overwhelming that I can’t possibly trust my instincts on this and now it turns out it’s (sadly) irrelevant to us. But my instincts do lean slightly towards Ja just because Zion is so unique I find it very tricky to project him. Morant’s likelihood feels slightly better to me just because it’s so obvious what kind of star he would be if he gets there; his upside comps are guys that are current all-stars. With Zion, comps are hard to come by. I think there’s a very good chance he’s amazing, but he’s so unique I think there’s just a bit more downside risk maybe? Anyway I feel less stupid for having had this thought now that I know the logo did also.

    35. ptmilo

      that is the most on brand strat post in fucking history; beyond meat could spend $100 billion and 50 years and couldn’t create as convincing a calling card

    36. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      I’ll remind everyone Porzingis (assuming he’s not in jail or in a hospital from an injury or beating next year) will still be young and very under developed physically when he returns next year.

      He could easily become a high usage above average efficiency scorer fairly quickly with a few tweaks to his game and improved knowledge. He’ll almost certainly get that in Dallas. IMO, he still has a chance to become a high usage high efficiency scorer if he combines that strategic development with greater strength around the basket so can finish inside better while improving his shooting over time.

      His rebounding isn’t as bad as advertised. The dude is pretzel weak, plays on the perimeter on offense, and roamed the paint on defense helping inept Knicks defenders by trying to block shots. That often took him away from the boards. As he gets stronger he’ll be able to bang more and his role may change.

      He’s already much more skilled than either Lopez or Kornet. To put him that category is almost ridiculous. I like Kornet, but his NBA future is not even secure yet.

      The risks with KP are obvious and well understood. He’s so structurally weak he gets hurt all the time. Now we are finding out he’s not a clean cut trouble free guy either. Either or both could derail his development further than they already have. But he has the talent to become a high level two-way player and main piece on a contender.

    37. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      that is the most on brand strat post in fucking history; beyond meat could spend $100 billion and 50 years and couldn’t create as convincing a calling card

      I’m not even sure which one you are talking about, but consider it irrelevant anyway.

      1. Jerry West’s opinion should carry a lot of weight considering his record of success at every level.

      2. It took me about 10 years to undo all the wrong things I learned in college and from the financial press so I could actually begin understanding our financial system correctly from reading Austrian economics books.

    38. geo

      seems like at some point we’ll all have to commit to a RJ position…

      I need to take a look at his stats, just from watching him play though – I can see an all-star there…

      I know physical abilities aren’t everything, and, existing shooting efficiency is a key indicator for future success – but, there’s nothing about RJ that screams long term “project” like frank or knox…

      I don’t think RJ will play for us though – I’m starting to enjoy the KD to knick cool-aid now…in which case, we need to pivot quickly to a win now roster, and, use our assets to that end…

      I don’t know, I think I could endure another 20 wins or so season if we continue trying to re-build slowly and out some fun to root for guys out there…

      hell, let’s bring mario back…

    39. thenoblefacehumper

      2. It took me about 10 years to undo all the wrong things I learned in college and from the financial press so I could actually begin understanding our financial system correctly from reading Austrian economics books.

      The record for most on brand Strat post ever only lasted like 15 minutes

    40. Kevin Udwary

      @33 What highlights are you watching? I’ve watched a lot of Duke games this past year, being local, and I don’t see what you’re saying at all. His issue is definitely the jump shot. He has a great handle with both hands, and finished around the rim very well with both hands. His high 2pt% is due to being very good around the rim. His jump shot is the key to his offensive game. If he can develop it, he is an all-star, if not he is still a useful box score stuffer.

    41. DS

      I would feel better about Steve Nash talking up a college prospect’s passing/court vision if that college prospect weren’t his godson.

      I would feel worse if R.J. didn’t have a 23.5 Assist Percentage. That’s pretty high for a wing, no?

    42. thenoblefacehumper

      To put him that category is almost ridiculous.

      I agree. Both Lopez and Kornet have cracked 0.5+ BPM at some point, so until Porzingis shows he can do that it’s not a fair comparison to them.

    43. Frank

      I think RJ will be just fine.
      Good assist numbers.
      Good finishing #s in the paint – 64.4% at the rim per hoopmath.
      Definitely mitigating factor = how terrible Duke’s shooters were. Their best 3 point shooter was O’Connell who shot about 2 per game at 37.5%. Everyone else who shot even 70 total 3 pointers was at 33.8% (Zion) or less. For a slashing wing-type, that paint was definitely congested.

      As comparison – rim FG% their last year in college (recently top-5 drafted wing-attacking-types)
      Jayson Tatum = 62.1%
      Markelle Fultz = 61.6
      Josh Jackson = 69%
      Donovan Mitchell – 55.9%
      Brandon Ingram 58.8

    44. Hubert

      that is the most on brand strat post in fucking history;

      Let’s give the men credit where it’s due: when it comes to branding, Strat is Budweiser.

      In this thread alone, he’s dropped the Clydesdales, the Budweiser frogs, and Dilly Dilly.

    45. Hubert

      His rebounding isn’t as bad as advertised. The dude is pretzel weak, plays on the perimeter on offense, and roamed the paint on defense helping inept Knicks defenders by trying to block shots. That often took him away from the boards. As he gets stronger he’ll be able to bang more and his role may change.

      ^ I mean, come on, this is a classic.

    46. The Infamous Cdiggy

      Looks like we’re going to be split on RJ Barrett. I have a few questions:
      1. If Durant and Kyrie do come, I get that we’d want a “3rd wheel” to roll with them. But why not have them and keep RJ if you feel he can an all-star down the road?
      2. I know this is mostly hyperbolic, but at #3 I believe it’s fair to expect a rookie player who can at least contribute right away (to various degrees). So far, it sounds like most of you agree that RJ won’t be a project like Knox. In that context, why not hold onto RJ instead of making him 3rd star trade bait?
      3. Getting Durant and Kyrie would definitely create a competing window. But what about after that? I want an NBA chip as bad as everyone here – but why not implement plans for sustained success for post-prime-Durant? That’s an argument to hold onto some of the youth movement (or try to roll them over if mgmt doesn’t think they’ll pan out).

    47. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      I agree. Both Lopez and Kornet have cracked 0.5+ BPM at some point, so until Porzingis shows he can do that it’s not a fair comparison to them.

      BPM was a good faith effort by some very smart people to capture the value and/or productivity of players. Like all the other “all in one models” it’s missing important things, underrates or overrates certain things in certain situations, underrates or overrates certain combinations of things, can’t isolate skill from role, can’t adjust for the fact that teammates and system have an impact on individual stats etc…

      So depending on the specific combination of skills, role, system and teammates of player “X” it could value him fairly accurately (most cases) or at the end of each curve do a terrible job.

      The very best comparison is speed figures in horse racing.

      A speed figure will tell you how fast a horse ran. In the vast majority of cases that’s a great place to start an appraisal of a horse even though there will be occasional inaccuracies. The problem is it doesn’t tell you you if the horse was wide losing ground, on the rail, in a good path, in a bad path, what impact the pace might have had, was he blocked, out of the gate slowly etc.. On occasion there are extreme “trips”. Those render the speed figure almost useless unless you subjectively adjust for everything that’s missing or wrong about it. You’ll never wind up with a perfect subjective appraisal and there will be disagreements among experts. But everyone that does it is better off being approximately right than precisely wrong.

    48. thenamestsam

      I think talking about any kind of “sustained success” is putting the cart way before the horse. Even if rumors are to be believed, and I still think that’s a significant if, we may very well end up with a good to great team over the next few years. However, it will be almost entirely due to the whims of two of the strangest and most unreadable NBA stars in recent memory and have pretty much no relationship to anything ownership, management, or the coaching staff has actually done to make it happen.

    49. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      ^ I mean, come on, this is a classic.

      When people were panicking because Robinson wasn’t rebounding well on the defensive side early last year, I was the first one to say “He’s got to get stronger. He’s also trying to block every single shot in his area and it’s taking him away from the boards. Don’t worry about it. As soon as he figures it out, gets more selective, and starts getting stronger his defensive rebounding will be fine”. A few weeks later (way ahead of what I expected) he already started figuring it out.

      You are right I should have panicked over what the boxscore said instead of understanding why such a tall, long, athletic player wasn’t rebounding well and then figuring if he could change that. smh

    50. Kevin Udwary

      @46 Even though I like Barrett, I wouldn’t have a major problem trading him for a productive vet if the Durant/Kyrie rumors come true. Barrett is the kind of guy who is going to shoot whether he is good at it or not, so he could end up killing you if the jumpshot doesn’t develop.

    51. ptmilo

      2. It took me about 10 years to undo all the wrong things I learned in college and from the financial press so I could actually begin understanding our financial system correctly from reading Austrian economics books.

      i understand. i was young once too. i remember turning 85 and first encountering rothbard’s incompleteness proof that no fractional reserve banking system could issue its own fiat currency with self destructing, and it seemed so utterly convincing i even bought a hayek pin, flush with the endorphins of revelation. but, young man, will learn that age discards revelation for wisdom earned hard. after a brief and humiliating flirtation with the fiscal theory of the price level in my early 120s (that quite obviously i’d rather not speak about in great detail), i finally came to see the youthful folly of all these subcentenarians hyped up on jamba juice, peering wide eyed into their little partial equilibrium windows and running out screaming that the world must know the whole house was really just a bathroom all along. now i chuckle every time i see that pin, which i have come to use primarily as a little elf to my catheter when the old woodford reserve is churning through a little high on the old viscosity meter if you know what i mean. just last year i sold the last of my bullion to an endearingly frantic 93 year old who had just come from a peak lithium meeting and was quite concerned that the recent devaluation of the mongolian togrog would finally put and end to the great cenozoic malinvestment ponzi era.

    52. Frank

      It is possible that putting Barrett on a team where he’s the 3rd or 4th option and doens’t have the ball all the time is exactly what he needs. He’ll need to improve his J and concentrate on D and rebounding etc to get minutes. At least on a normal team as opposed to Knox who got to do whatever he wanted last year.

    53. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @48

      They made a lot of mistakes and potentially set us back a couple of years, but they salvaged the situation well enough to have a chance to come out of it smelling like a rose. Players around the league seem to like Perry and Fizdale a lot. I suspect agents also like Mills (because he overpays their players lol). That may be the one talent they have that most of our previous management didn’t have. Players like them.

    54. JK47

      We are all a bunch of noobs. Strat understands this ish way better than any of us. BPM, RPM, ZPM, get outta here with your nerd stats. Strat has broken down the film and he has calculated the raw on/off numbers and he has devised a statistical model called STRATVORP that is based on the teachings of Ludwig Von Mises and it involves horses and did you know there are three ways to acquire players and anyway you all wouldn’t understand it.

    55. ptmilo

      it’s definitely interesting that perry and mills have gone out of their way to avoid the press this week. although this wouldn’t be odd under most dolan knick regimes it’s not really the perry/mills m.o. i guess it’s obvious that they are considering all options either way, but this seems to emphasize the point.

    56. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @51

      I never said you weren’t a bright and well read guy, but the vast majority of people (even those on Wall St) don’t understand our system very well or why they feel like they are bent over taking it without the Vaseline. They think the Fed is helping them maintain stability all while confiscating their savings and propping up the world economy with artificially low interest rate, QE, and ever expanding debt to GDP ratios. The pinheads on TV are arguing about whether Obama or Trump deserves credit for the recovery since 2008 all while the ice is melting beneath them and we move closer to the next crisis and ever greater transfers of wealth from the bottom to the top .

    57. Kevin Udwary

      @52 I would try to get him to play like Ben Simmons until he can prove to have an effective jumper. He is better with the ball in his hands, but settles for the easy jumper way too much. Give him a cookie every time he drives to the rim, and a smack on the hand when he jacks up a step-back jumper.

    58. thenoblefacehumper

      When people were panicking because Robinson wasn’t rebounding well on the defensive side early last year, I was the first one to say “He’s got to get stronger. He’s also trying to block every single shot in his area and it’s taking him away from the boards. Don’t worry about it. As soon as he figures it out, gets more selective, and starts getting stronger his defensive rebounding will be fine”. A few weeks later (way ahead of what I expected) he already started figuring it out.

      No one was panicking and just about everyone chalked it up to positioning due to his sky high ORB%

    59. Hubert

      You are right I should have panicked over what the boxscore said instead of understanding why such a tall, long, athletic player wasn’t rebounding well and then figuring if he could change that. smh

      I said it with love, my man. I like your brand.

    60. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @54

      I’d be less of a contrarian here if people didn’t actually quote those dumb statistics as if they are the “way light and truth” so often and imply that anyone that disagrees is some backwoods fool that hasn’t figured out how to value players correctly yet. I have admitted on many occasions I can’t come up with a better all encompassing number, but my commentary at least reflects the known and suspected flaws in each of those metrics and I try to better assess the quality of a player by looking at other data.

      Then I get commentary back like this because I thought I might have found a kindred spirit on the board when it comes to banking.

    61. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @59

      I said it with love, my man. I like your brand.

      So many people here don’t like me I lose track of who I have a decent rapport with and who I don’t. It’s hard to read “intent” in some comments. :-)

      I get it. I’m a contrarian guy that sometimes talks about experiences or successes in other areas to gain some credibility at what I am saying here. None of that makes me endearing. I’m not really here to be the most liked and I’m definitely not here to be the most despised. I don’t need the aggravation. I’m here to discuss basketball and bring something to the table other than what everyone else here already thinks. I’d rather point out where I think the consensus here is wrong and maybe the mainstream coaches and players are right than say nothing or just nodding my head in agreement when I do agree.

    62. ptmilo

      strat, zero malice intended. you’re allowed to be an austrian economist and a quantitative basketball skeptic. you just have a tick of sometimes dressing your view up as a beacon of hard earned wisdom amid a sea of adorable naïveté that you, too, were once credulous enough to fall for during an ugly ten minutes of misspent youth. even if you think this, there isn’t much use in stating it. everyone is just another gum flapper until proven otherwise, i.e. 4eva

    63. djphan

      i would dissuade rj from shooting 3s unless he’s wide open…. he should be developing his game inside out anyway but that will dramatically help out his efficiency because his 2p game should be ok to start…

      that’s if his inside scoring translates… which i don’t think is a complete given… but is reasonable to believe that it will…

      the worrisome part is that fizdale is probably not the coach to dissuade anyone from shooting 3s….

    64. Hubert

      So many people here don’t like me I lose track of who I have a decent rapport with and who I don’t. It’s hard to read “intent” in some comments. :-)

      I’m highly certain that no one here dislikes you.

    65. ClashFan

      I sort of admire Strat’s resolve in the face of a tempest of posts mocking him almost daily, even if I don’t agree with him that often.

      Barrett. Well, if the Knicks keep the pick and he’s there, they really do need to take him. I’m lukewarm. If KD and Robin pledge to come here, they probably trade the pick anyway. How many ball-dominant players do you need?

      I really don’t want Kyrie Caveat Emptor Irving, but I guess he’s part of the KD package.

    66. thenoblefacehumper

      I’d be less of a contrarian here if people didn’t actually quote those dumb statistics as if they are the “way light and truth” so often and imply that anyone that disagrees is some backwoods fool that hasn’t figured out how to value players correctly yet.

      Every single person who has ever cited an all encompassing metric on this board has also at some point acknowledged their limitations. You’re not the only person in the world who knows that Step 1: go to basketballreference.com Step 2: Sort by BPM isn’t the answer to every question in the NBA.

      You are one of the only people on this board who insists you have such an esoteric kind of knowledge that this, and other, data is practically useless to you (“Frank Ntilikina is very close to being an elite role player”). When pressed for what exactly this insight is, you usually give some horse racing related answer that doesn’t clarify anything but still maintains your air of superiority.

      So yeah, it rubs some people the wrong way.

    67. JK47

      Strat, I don’t dislike you at all, but you need to have a thick skin if you’re going to be a contrarian. It’s kind of part of the deal. You’re a valued commenter here and you seem to be a nice person. I would think everybody here feels the same way. We’re a snarky bunch of cynics here though, so you’re gonna have to endure the occasional barb when you drop some choice Strat-isms. That is the price of contrarianism.

      I would bet you are the opposite Myers/Briggs personality from me. I’m INFP. You are likely ESTJ. Am I correct? I only say this because your brain seems to work completely opposite from the way mine works. Which is totally fine! We’re just different. You keep doing you, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

    68. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I may not respect your heuristics, strat, but I do respect your tolerance of dissent and your mostly-unwavering civility.

    69. geo

      @51…i just want to say – i believe you…

      i once hit a man in dearborn michigan. a hit and run. i hit him and kept on going. i don’t know if he’s alive or dead, but i’m sorry.

      not only that – even if it happened at noon on the corner of schaefer and michigian – i totally believe you would get away with it…no doubt, if i ever got caught in a bad “storm” – i’d want you there holding the umbrella…

    70. geo

      I get it. I’m a contrarian guy

      no strat, you are a talk show host – and, you should be getting paid for this…

    71. Ntilakilla

      The very best comparison is speed figures in horse racing.

      Strat, I figured out your director comparison. You’re the M. Night Shyamalan of Knickerblogger posters. You create a fantastical premise and explore its full range of logical possibilities to its most absurd conclusion in the pursuit of proving a point that only makes sense within the parameters of the fantastical premise you invented. While Shyamalan invents water allergic alien invaders, plant pheromones capable of triggering mass human suicides, or imaginary mermaids that appear in motel swimming pools to provide a fantasy narrative for moralizing on the state of human affairs you use similar literary devices like horse racing analogies to disregard the whatever basketball metrics that don’t conform with your own subjective impressions about the state of the NBA. And the problem with this Shayamalanian approach is the same one which plagues most of his films: namely that your argument makes absolutely zero sense to anyone who isn’t willing to take the leap of faith in accepting the ridiculous premise you’re establishing as foundational to your entire argument.

    72. geo

      I would bet you are the opposite Myers/Briggs personality from me. I’m INFP. You are likely ESTJ.

      how the hell would you even know about that…it’s bad enough you know numbers – and, can play music, but, seriously – do you have to know about that kind of shit too…

      ugh, every once in a while after reading through a thread i’ll find myself continually chanting:
      I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and doggone it, people like me

    73. Ntilakilla

      However, it will be almost entirely due to the whims of two of the strangest and most unreadable NBA stars in recent memory and have pretty much no relationship to anything ownership, management, or the coaching staff has actually done to make it happen.

      Welcome to the modern NBA.

    74. d-mar

      i understand. i was young once too. i remember turning 85 and first encountering rothbard’s incompleteness proof that no fractional reserve banking system could issue its own fiat currency with self destructing, and it seemed so utterly convincing i even bought a hayek pin, flush with the endorphins of revelation. but, young man, will learn that age discards revelation for wisdom earned hard. after a brief and humiliating flirtation with the fiscal theory of the price level in my early 120s (that quite obviously i’d rather not speak about in great detail), i finally came to see the youthful folly of all these subcentenarians hyped up on jamba juice, peering wide eyed into their little partial equilibrium windows and running out screaming that the world must know the whole house was really just a bathroom all along. now i chuckle every time i see that pin, which i have come to use primarily as a little elf to my catheter when the old woodford reserve is churning through a little high on the old viscosity meter if you know what i mean. just last year i sold the last of my bullion to an endearingly frantic 93 year old who had just come from a peak lithium meeting and was quite concerned that the recent devaluation of the mongolian togrog would finally put and end to the great cenozoic malinvestment ponzi era.

      I’ll have what PT Milo’s having

    75. Ntilakilla

      Going back to the stretch 5 issue, these playoffs have really reinforced my thinking that Luke Kornet is a bit of an underrated player for us moving forward. He already plays two-thirds of his minutes at center for us, has a very good RDPM, and is a 36% shooter from downtown. I think he could really benefit from finally playing with two ball-handlers in KD and Kyrie who draw attention and can consistently swing the ball his way.

    76. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I can’t remember ever being really unhappy with Kornet’s play while he’s out there.

    77. DRed

      I laughed out loud when I read Austrian economics.

      Kornet is a perfectly useful NBA player. He can shoot and block shots.

    78. DRed

      Ludwig von Mises can’t play in the playoffs. No better than the eleventh man on a contender

    79. swiftandabundant

      All major free agent signings are based on the whims of mecurial superstars.

      Lebron wanting to leave Cleveland the first and second time. Melo wanting to force a trade to get out of Denver where he had a pretty good thing going. Chris Paul wanting out of NO and then out of The Clippers later on. Kyrie out of Cleveland and now Boston. Heck, lets take it back to Shaq out of Orlando where he had gone to the Finals. Kawhi wanting out of SA, the best franchise in the league for the last 20 years. I could go on and on and on. Superstars want to dictate their own terms for living, success, narrative, etc.

      The fact that The Knicks are even in the position to possibly nab 2 of these stars is a pretty amazing thing when you consider their cap situation the last 5 years. The fact that they could sign these 2 guys and not lose any of their young players or picks is even more amazing. The fact that they could whiff in free agency and keep rebuilding (they have a plan B to fall back on) is pretty amazing.

      Maybe its just more of the same star chasing. Maybe they trade away all their picks and young players for AD and max out their cap space on a big 3 and then they don’t mesh or get hurt…maybe it can go wrong. But the Knicks are in a good spot right now. The best they’ve been in a very long time.

      I also like this situation better than STAT/MELO/Chandler…cause Kyrie, Durant and AD are all better than those 3 and they don’t play redundant positions like STAT and Melo did. If we do go all in on this new big 3, its a PG, a SF/PF and a Center. The pieces are way more complimentary.

    80. Hubert

      I sort of admire Strat’s resolve in the face of a tempest

      I agree.

      He’s got a lot of great hits, too. Picture these titles scrolling up your TV screen like those old commercials in the 80s that were selling motown music compilations:

      – Tanking doesn’t work

      – The numbers are lying

      – It’s like in horse racing

      – I used to think that before I was smart

      – You have to watch the games

      – Did I mention tanking doesn’t work?

    81. Bruno Almeida

      Austrian economics HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

      Ok, I can breathe now.

      I just hope Perry and Mills don’t fall too much in love with Barrett. I’d be fine with him as the pick, but they should be looking for any potential good deals that can come up. Pick him if nothing better shows up, but stay active and gauge his market value which is almost certain to be high right now.

    82. Ntilakilla

      Kornet is a perfectly useful NBA player. He can shoot and block shots.

      Which kind of brings us back to the MitchRob offense debate. Would he be better off diversifying his game to shooting 3s. The scouting reports said he wasn’t terrible at it in HS. I know his personal metrics would suffer if he did shoot them on open looks, but would our offense be better off for it? Some of the best teams seem to think that they want or have bigmen on the court who can do it consistently. Toronto traded for Gasol, Milwaukee picked up Lopez, the Warriors picked up Cousins, Sixers have Embiid, etc.

    83. geo

      fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck…okay – i looked it up:

      The Austrian School is a heterodox school of economic thought that is based on methodological individualism—the concept that social phenomena result exclusively from the motivations and actions of individuals.

      and i still don’t get it – wait a minute, i get it now :)

    84. ClashFan

      I don’t know. Maybe we shouldn’t be laughing at Austria or Austrian economics. We elected Trump president after all. Well, not me, but…
      :-)

      Isn’t Kornet a RFA? What’s he gonna cost?

    85. JK47

      Paul Krugman says:

      “Austrian economics very much has the psychology of a cult. Its devotees believe that they have access to a truth that generations of mainstream economists have somehow failed to discern; they go wild at any suggestion that maybe they’re the ones who have an intellectual blind spot.”

      That sound like anybody we know?

    86. Owen

      I don’t care what anyone says – Hayek can ball. He’s at worst the #2 guy on a championship team.

    87. KnickfaninNJ

      Which kind of brings us back to the MitchRob offense debate. Would he be better off diversifying his game to shooting 3s.

      I think he’d be better off with first getting a five to ten foot jump shot that is reliable. It would make him much harder to defend around the basket, and it is usually an efficient shot when you are that close to the basket.

    88. rama got that Fizdale Magic

      @51

      I am disconsolate that ptmilo has never pilloried me in a post. Thoroughly pwned.

    89. Bruno Almeida

      @87

      Hayek at the very least could really write, and he was a pretty smart dude by all accounts. I’d say he’s the DeMar DeRozan of economics, not conducive to wins at all but at least his game is kinda aesthetically pleasing if you’re into that.

      @86
      Holy shit it really all makes sense now.

      I’m kinda done with all this oh poor strat being persecuted by the evil stats lovers. Every time now that he comes with this mystical perceptions about how basketball should work in his own head with zero tangible arguments it’s this stuff all over again.

      If you choose to go against what most of the people in here are agreeing on for years and you don’t present tangible arguments that can convince people, you’re going to face heavy disagreement. If you do it for months and years while simultaneously saying you’re also smarter than everyone else, how can you expect people to like you? In my opinion most if not all posters here have been extremely level headed and respectful to him despite all this stuff. Take a page out of the Austrian economists and understand people are free to think you’re opinions are terrible and to react strongly to them.

    90. nicos

      Brandon Clarke weighing in at 207 would worry me. Knox weighed 212 at the combine last year (1/2 inch taller) and got thrown around like a rag doll. Is he going to be the same jumping jack player when he’s constantly getting leaned on by guys 20 or 30 pounds heavier? If he was 19 I’d say he’d put on weight with no problem but he’ll be 23 when training camp opens and should have had two full years of solid training at Gonzaga. I mean last night we saw two “finesse” starting 4’s in Kawhi and Giannis and they weigh 230 and 240 respectively. I still think he can be a very good role player but he’s going to really have to bulk up unless he’s just a Rodman-type freak who can consistently deal with guys 30 pounds heavier.

    91. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Clarke is going to make a late-lottery team really happy. He’s athletic, he is long enough to guard any position outside of traditional 5s, and he has an innate gift for basketball. Like Zion, he just “gets it.” He’s going to be a steal anywhere he falls.

    92. Mike Honcho

      I’m also an INFP! (aren’t we supposed to be one of the least common types?)

      INFP’S RISE UP

      BOTTOM TEXT

    93. geo

      i just took the small sample test:
      https://www.personalityperfect.com/
      and over here:
      https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test
      and over here too:
      http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

      by far the most useful class in college was this self-personality “discovery” type class i took – i almost failed probability and stats – twice :(

      mine has seemed to change over time, and, with my mood…young (20’s): INTJ, little older (40’s): ENTJ, just now: ISTJ and INFJ and INTJ…seems the only constant is my rigid view of the world…

    94. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I imagine there are a lot of introverts here. I’m ambiverted (comfortable in large parties but prefer small gatherings) but I prefer to talk about the Knicks with y’all than a group of extroverts at a bar.

    95. geo

      too funny, we’re a bunch of introverts:

      we are united – separately in our own homes

    96. geo

      honestly, i don’t think i’ve had this myers-briggs conversation with but maybe 2 other people my whole life :)

    97. 2FOR18, understands math

      “2. It took me about 10 years to undo all the wrong things I learned in college and from the financial press so I could actually begin understanding our financial system correctly from reading Austrian economics books.”

      Ha. I just wanted to read Knicks stuff but I had to give you a ‘lol’ as an econ major who was fed Keynesian BS/propoganda for 4 years.

    98. ess-dog

      Question: Is Kadeem Allen still under contract or 2-way contract? I think he’d be fine as a backup to Kyrie. I guess I’m sort of wondering what we could get in this draft for DSJ straight up? Either for a bigger trade or just 2nd 1st round draftee. If we could get an 8 – 15 pick and nab Clarke or Hachimura, that would be worth it imo.

    99. DS

      I’m ENFP. I’m impressed that there are so many feelers (vs. thinkers) here!

      So it occurred to me (although I’m sure it’s been said before; probably several times) that it’s sort of ironic that New Orleans — although obviously ecstatic that they got the #1 pick — can no longer have the Zion pick on their wish list for Anthony Davis. Therefore we might have the best draft asset available to them, although being only slightly better than the Lakers doesn’t help our cause.

    100. Grocer

      after a brief and humiliating flirtation with the fiscal theory of the price level in my early 120s (that quite obviously i’d rather not speak about in great detail), i finally came to see the youthful folly of all these subcentenarians hyped up on jamba juice, peering wide eyed into their little partial equilibrium windows and running out screaming that the world must know the whole house was really just a bathroom all along.

      I’m jealous.

      Strat, you are an unending well of inspiration, and I thank you for that.

    101. Grocer

      Ludwig von Mises can’t play in the playoffs. No better than the eleventh man on a contender

      I don’t care what anyone says – Hayek can ball. He’s at worst the #2 guy on a championship team.

      These guys are strictly euro league players. But hey, that’s a step up from the gang of four.

    102. Ntilakilla

      I’m waiting for the Monetary Theory phase of this financial discussion to join in.

      Until then, I want to reaffirm ess-dog’s take on Kadeem Allen as the best option we have to for a competent backup to Kyrie. I also agree that Hachimura is very promising raw player, but I doubt we get a mid-first rounder for DSJ. I think we’re going to use him as a trade chip in a bigger package for a big fish type player.

    103. Z-man

      I imagine there are a lot of introverts here. I’m ambiverted (comfortable in large parties but prefer small gatherings) but I prefer to talk about the Knicks with y’all than a group of extroverts at a bar.

      I have a thing for inefficient volume scorers. Does that make me a PERvert?

    104. Owen

      I was going to post how perfectly confident I was the Warriors would win when the Blazers were up 16. And now it’s 5.

    105. bobneptune

      It is nice to watch an offensive juggernaut of a team that plays defense hard…..

    106. DRed

      I’ve been wondering for 18 months why they don’t play Meyers Leonard more. He’s got half decent stretch bigability

    107. NahNahNahWeAreGoingTheOtherWay

      I have a thing for inefficient volume scorers. Does that make me a PERvert?

      Z-Man, touche.

    108. Early Bird

      So, Kevon Looney is a FA this year. Any interest and how much do you think he’s worth?

    109. Bruno Almeida

      I never went too much into this because I’m a pretty huge deleuzian so to speak, but I took two tests once upon a time and came out as ENFP, not that I really know what that means.

      And yeah, the Blazers – Warriors series looks like it will be a quick 4-1. Portland had a very good chance and blew it as the Warriors just clamped down in the 3rd and 4th and executed as always.

    110. slovene knick

      At first look I thought that Portland was robbed in the third. Just rewached first half of third…and portland does not answer the pressure the right way or in any way. Maybe one or two calls were missed but nothing significant. They play calmly into traps on O and are not focused enough on D and especially Drebounding sucked. It looked like they played GSW for the first time and they werent told that the avalanche starts in the third.

    111. Frank

      Kornet is a perfectly useful player — I’m glad he’s restricted with a minimal cap hold or else I’m thinking we would have to give him up.

      I’m sure there’s some weird trade out there that I’m not seeing right now that will totally change our roster, but a perfectly reasonable offseason could be predicted to be trading DSJ or Frank for a high 2nd to clear their cap # and allow us to keep Trier on his current deal, signing KD/Kyrie, signing a vet SF or PF who can shoot with the room exception, and bringing back Kadeem Allen and Kornet.

      So our roster would then be:

      PG: Kyrie, DSJ or Frank, Kadeem Allen
      SG: Dotson
      SF/PFs: Durant, Knox, RJ Barrett, room FA, probably Lance Thomas resigned for minimum, maybe Vonleh?
      C: Mitch, Kornet
      plus whoever we draft with an early 2nd + late 2nd

      That would be totally reasonable IMHO and a fun team to root for, would still have all our 1st’s plus the 2 dallas picks.

    112. Name is Bron - James Bron

      I’m sure there’s some weird trade out there that I’m not seeing right now that will totally change our roster

      Been working the #’s at tradenba.com – it might be possible to obtain BOTH Beal and Covington.

      The outline looks like this (may swap some young players and add/subtract picks as required):
      – Beal for Lance/RJ/Knox/DSJ
      – Covington for Trier/Frank/Ellenson/Jenkins/Mavs pick/Charlotte picks

      – Starting lineup of Kyrie/Beal/Covington/KD/Mitch would be AWESOME. Roles well-defined.
      – Bench might be OKish depending on who takes room exception (Kadeem/Dotson/Kornet/DAJ?)
      – Wiz might want to keep 25yo Beal to give fans a reason to watch games but our offer would be very enticing and RJ might generate desired interest.
      – Not clear what TWolves plan might be but Knick package could be tempting especially if FO were to throw in both Mav picks.

    113. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Clippers adviser Jerry West has reportedly tabbed Morant as the best talent in the draft — better even than Williamson.

      Don’t be fooled by the usually taciturn old codger. He’s angling for AD trade and wants to generate discussion that Zion ain’t all that so AD will maintain his trade demand.

      BTW would have been nice to have gotten the #2 pick but that would have opened up a number of options and it’s not that clear the best tack to take. Maybe Ja makes us the favorite in an AD trade? But what if FO trades both Ja and Mitch? The #3 pick makes the plan crystal clear to the front office regardless of Kyrie/KD. If they sign, you trade RJ. If they don’t, you keep RJ. The #3 pick could end up a blessing in disguise.

    114. Early Bird

      – Beal for Lance/RJ/Knox/DSJ
      – Covington for Trier/Frank/Ellenson/Jenkins/Mavs pick/Charlotte picks

      My understanding is that have to waive Lance in order to fit both KD and Kyrie under the cap. Same goes for declining team options for Jenkins, Trier, and Ellenson. We may be able to keep one of Ellenson or Jenkins.

      If these are the trades we’re making we need to take back about $10-12 million less in salary from them to allow us to sign KD and Kyrie.

    115. Hubert

      My understanding is that have to waive Lance in order to fit both KD and Kyrie under the cap.

      Now that we know what the cap hold for our pick is (the #3 is $7,829,880) we can do a better assessment. You can keep Lance Thomas and sign Kyrie and Durant to the max (minus approximately $800k) if you move Frank or Dennis Smith before hand. You can do that with picking up Trier’s option, too.

      You might wonder why we’d want to trade Frank or Smith to keep Lance. And that’s fair. The reason is asset maximization.

      Lance’s contract works better as salary filler because a) he’s worthless, and b) he can be waived by the team that acquires him without them having to pay his salary.

      Let’s say, for instance, I wanted to target Gary Harris of Denver for some reason. He makes $17mm. To make that work, I need to trade Barrett plus Smith plus Trier. That’s way too much! Instead, you trade Smith and Trier for 2nd round picks and include Lance Thomas as salary weight. Now you end up with Gary Harris and picks instead of just Gary Harris.

      So don’t be surprised, or mad, if we pick up Lance Thomas. His contract is structured very well and it gives us flexibility.

    116. Hubert

      Been working the #’s at tradenba.com – it might be possible to obtain BOTH Beal and Covington.

      This you definitely cannot do. Not if you’re signing Durant and Kyrie for the max.

      The reason it’s working for you in the trade machine but can’t work in real life is because you’re using contracts of guys that we’d have to waive to sign Kyrie and Durant to the max.

    117. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Ugh you’re right, forgot about that. Having Noah on the roster would have solved that dilemma. FO gave up a lot of flexibility by waiving Noah. Ntilikina out partying with Noah wouldn’t have hurt Frank’s game – heck it might have helped.

      Maybe something like I proposed yesterday. First trade for Covington in which we shed enough salary to sign Kyrie and KD and then go after players like Satoransky and Bertans to add depth. Or maybe leverage the 3 large trade exceptions the Wiz have. For example, we could send them DSJ right away to free up cap to sign Kyrie and KD and then trade Knox for Satoransky after double K’s sign.

    118. Early Bird

      Stretching Noah was the right move for Noah and for the sake of the younger Knicks players from a moral perspective. Unfortunately, from a basketball perspective it was a horrible decision.

    119. Kevin Udwary

      I hate to say this, but if Durant and KI do sign here this summer, and including Mitch is the only way to get AD, I’d do it. Mitch+Barrett+2 1st rounders would be a very competitive offer to anything else NO could get. I would only do that if I got an assurance from DeAndre Jordan that he’d then sign for the room exception. A starting lineup of Kyrie, Durant, AD, Jordan and any scrub who can hit a 3 (Dotson, Trier) would be amazing.

    120. Early Bird

      I hate to say this, but if Durant and KI do sign here this summer, and including Mitch is the only way to get AD, I’d do it. Mitch+Barrett+2 1st rounders would be a very competitive offer to anything else NO could get. I would only do that if I got an assurance from DeAndre Jordan that he’d then sign for the room exception. A starting lineup of Kyrie, Durant, AD, Jordan and any scrub who can hit a 3 (Dotson, Trier) would be amazing.

      I definitely do that too, even without an assurance from DeAndre Jordan. It’s not too hard to find a serviceable player at the minimum. We’ve found Kornet, Trier, Lin, etc. etc. etc.

    121. DS

      Yeah, I don’t see how you can pass on a 26 year-old perennial MVP candidate. Mitch could easily be an advanced stat superstar while AD craps out on injuries with a monstrous contract but I think you take that risk.

      I also think with the Lakers getting #4 pick they will finally put together a package that will be hard for New Orleans to turn down. I don’t see how we outbid the Lakers w/o including Mitch.

    122. Brian Cronin

      You’re not helping, Marc Berman!

      A package of the Knicks’ No. 3 pick, Dallas’ two first-rounders, center Mitchell Robinson and Frank Ntilikina could be in the ballpark.

    123. d-mar

      Maybe Pels ownership thinks pairing Barrett with Zion will compel all those rich Duke alumni to pony up for season tickets at Smoothie King and fly in for a game every once in a while.

    124. Hubert

      If you can put together a package with enough matching salary for AD that includes Mitch, you can put the same package together without Mitch to get Beal.

      So what starting lineup would you rather have:

      a) Kyrie, KD, AD, and two replacement level guys

      or

      b) Kyrie, Beal, KD, Robinson, and one replacement level guy

      I would take B all day long and never think twice about it.

    125. Hubert

      A package of the Knicks’ No. 3 pick, Dallas’ two first-rounders, center Mitchell Robinson and Frank Ntilikina could be in the ballpark.

      This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen from Berman, and that’s saying a lot.

      You can only sign one max player if you do this. The net impact to the Knicks roster is we give up Kyrie, Mitchell, Barrett, Dallas’ two first rounders, and Frank for AD.

    126. Brian Cronin

      There is pretty much 0% chance that Berman understands how the salary cap works, so suffice it to say that what he’s really just saying is that Mitch, Barrett and the two Dallas picks are not too much to give up for AD. If the Knicks were to agree, then obviously they’d work out a way to sign KD and Kyrie and then do the AD trade.

    127. KnickfaninNJ

      NO has to decide whether they are in win now mode or rebuild mode. We know Griffin can do the former, I’m not sure about the latter.

    128. Hubert

      I’d rather keep Mitch and pursue Beal than give up Mitch for AD. Davis’ returns would be incredibly diminished as part of a big 3. He’d be reduced to being a superior Bosh. That’s great to have, but you don’t give up every asset you’ve got for it.

    129. Brian Cronin

      @135 – You’d say no to that if it was the Pelicans’ final offer?

      I wouldn’t give up Barrett, the Dallas picks and Mitch, no. Barrett, the Dallas picks and every other Knick? Sure. But not Barrett, the Dallas picks and Mitch.

    130. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      A package of the Knicks’ No. 3 pick, Dallas’ two first-rounders, center Mitchell Robinson and Frank Ntilikina could be in the ballpark.

      Here’s one from Berman that should get people riled up against a trade for Davis.

      To me, Davis is the “prize” of the year because he’s so much younger than Durant. The downside being that you have to give up assets to get him instead of just adding him to the existing young core.

      I am not against trading for him and adding him to the cap space with another max player. In fact, I may like that better than adding “flat earth” Kyrie who I don’t like. However, that trade is nuts. You can give up the #3 pick, both of Dallas’s picks (which I think are very unlikely to yield a star player), and either Frank or Knox, but you can’t give up both the #3 and Robinson plus Dallas’s picks and Frank.

      The #3 pick plus Robinson has the potential to be 2 star players. You may be getting back far and away the best player, but we can’t go back to gutting the team like we did for Melo even when the player coming back is actually a true superstar.

      I’d way rather keep Mitch and give away one of our own future 1st round picks.

      If you can come away with Davis, Mitchell, a FA, and the rest of our young players except one of either Knox or Frank, I think you can move forward in a great place even if we are missing one of our own future picks. But you more or less have to keep Mitch or you wind up being too gutted long term.

      Consecutive managements made some terrible moves that put us into this position of being terrible. We can’t come away from this gutted or with a short window because gave away too much of our youth.

    131. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      I see while I was typing my last note everyone beat me to it. lol

    132. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      You can give up Mitchell if you can figure out a way to trade for AD after already signing Durant and another legit star player. But you can’t gut too much else of your future. As great as Durant is, he doesn’t have a long window. You can’t leave yourself barren once Durant is inevitably declining towards the end of his contract. Other players should be coming into their own as he’s declining and eventually retires so you can keep going. If you give up too much future to create a big 3 now, you are kind of screwed long term given Durant’s age.

    133. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      NO has to decide whether they are in win now mode or rebuild mode. We know Griffin can do the former, I’m not sure about the latter.

      When you have Davis and Jrue Holiday and are adding Zion, you are in both. The only issue for the Pelicans is whether they can convince Davis to stay. If they can, they have a team that will be excellent next year and probably for another 6-7 years after that just as Zion is peaking for the next phase.

    134. Hubert

      We really need to reframe this. It shouldn’t be “what would you give up for AD” because you’re not getting the AD that plays for New Orleans. That guy is the #1 option and has a USG > 30.

      The way it should be framed is “what would you give up for the third best player on a team where Kyrie and Durant are dominating the ball.” And any answer that includes Mitchell Robinson is way too much.

    135. swiftandabundant

      Yeah, I would make a Davis trade but not one that guts the team of its youth and picks. Keeping Mitchell would be great.

      One thing that may work in our favor…

      If Davis still wants out, NO may be motivated to move him as soon as possible so they can start with a clean slate with Zion. Also, Barrett being Zion’s teammate at Duke AND the consensus # 3 could be very enticing to them both from a team building and marketing perspective. If you then throw in the Dallas 2021 pick and say 2 of Frank, Knox or DSJ, you’re giving them a pretty great package of young players and picks.

      We may have an advantage bc The Lakers might not want to try and get Davis anymore after the fuckery of last spring. Sure, that GM for NO is gone but its not like the president stepped in and stopped it. The Lakers might be like screw the pelicans.

      And if Kyrie is leaving Boston…do they want to make another huge trade that gives up their young core for AD? They might want to stick with what they have for now.

      I’m sure other teams will want to make a play for AD, but he still has some leverage cause he can say he will only resign with x, y and z teams.

      So I think a deal centered around #3, 2021 Dallas and two of our young players (hopefully not Mitch) would be a pretty decent deal for them. They could then probably turn around and trade Jrue to a team and get some decent stuff back for him too.

    136. Owen

      If you were Zion, would you really want to continue playing with Barrett? That doesn’t seem likely after the guy hogged touches all year. Probably my own bias, maybe they are buds, but the on court chemistry seemed less than ideal.

    137. Kevin Udwary

      Like it or not if we get KD, we’re shifting to win now mode likely for a 2-3 year window. In that time I would expect Jordan to at least match Mitch’s production, likely exceeding it the next year or two. It’d be great to get AD without Mitch, but I doubt it’s realistic, and I doubt our front office holds Mitch in as high of regard as we do, because his offense is limited. I’m just saying, brace yourself for it, because if we do trade for AD, I guarantee Mitch is going, but it gives us a real shot at a championship. Imagine a defense with Jordan and AD protecting the paint and smile.

    138. KnickfaninNJ

      When you have Davis and Jrue Holiday and are adding Zion, you are in both.

      You still have to choose whether you want picks or players who can contribute now. Given that you have to sell tickets, and given that NO picked Griffin as GM, I’m guessing he’s going to be in win now mode. I make the comment about NO picking him, because if you want to win now he’s demonstrated he can do that. He hasn’t demonstrated he can draft well. So NO picking him suggests something about their intentions.

      Given they want to win now Boston has more established players to trade than we do. So I think they are more likely than us to trade for AD. We should go after Beal. Washington is much more likely than NO to decide to rebuild and go after un-established players with potential and after draft picks.

    139. ess-dog

      I think drafting and keeping Barrett is the move. He’s a desirable asset and a nice fit between Kyrie and KD if they come. As good as AD is, he would cost us too much (a sorely underpriced Mitch, RJ, and future picks).

      No need to get cute. Kyrie, RJ, KD, vet min pf or sf, Mitch is a very good team that has room to improve. And we’ll still have bench pieces like Trier, Knox, DSJ, and others who can play or be dealt individually.

      If they decide that a guy projected lower than RJ is better (like Clarke), and they can get a killing in return (3 picks from the Hawks, for instance) then that’s a solid move. But trading cost-controlled young players for vets that almost definitely won’t get better (Beal, Covington) isn’t smart imo.

    140. Hubert

      Our bargaining position seems to have gotten stronger:

      Jackie MacMullan of ESPN:
      We have been told, I think, through channels – most of us have heard this same scuttlebutt – that Gayle Benson has basically told him, “To the Lakers, over my dead body.”

      If that’s true, it just means we’re going to end up overpaying for the most overqualified 3rd wheel in league history.

      This is bad news. Walk away.

    141. KnickfaninNJ

      That is expected. I don’t know why anyone thought LA was a team NO suddenly was willing to deal with after already emphatically saying no.

    142. ClashFan

      Trust the process! Keep all the picks. Look to rent space. Let the cynical KD and KI mercenary act go to New Jersey. That’s a better fit for them anyways. We should look to help facilitate trades and FA signings (teams that want to add cap space) to gobble up additional picks and also maybe an interesting young player or two in the next 2-3 years. We’ll have another lottery pick next year and at least two lottery picks in 2021.

      I know, not gonna happen, but that’s what I’m rooting for.

      I just don’t think DSJ and Frank have any serious value out there (i.e decent first round pick). If they do, sure, trade ’em.

      Dallas was trying to give DSJ away after he sulked and reportedly milked an injury to sit out games when he lost his “the man” spot to Doncic. Frank is an atrocious shooter. Give each another year to take a big step forward. See how they work with Mitch and Barrett. When one or both don’t, then discard. Show some damn patience.

    143. JK47

      Frank = butt
      Knox = butt
      DSJ = butt

      I’d take a ham sandwich in return for any combination of those scrubs

    144. The Infamous Cdiggy

      Laker fans still think they’re getting AD. They believe the #4 plus Kuzma, Ball, Ingram, and future picks will get it done. I was told this Wednesday while they clowned me for us getting the #3 pick.

      I don’t hate or dislike the Lakers. But I can’t stand Laker fans.

    145. Bruno Almeida

      I’m starting to think that what’s happening is that Mills and Perry have received no official confirmation from Kyrie or Durant about coming to the Knicks. That means they are pursuing Davis as a way to entice them, as Davis has reportedly been open to re-signing with the Knicks if he gets traded.

      There is also a possibility that they are planning for the potential situation where they end up with Davis plus one of them, not both.

      I think we should also not underrate Davis. He’s a major star, a top 10 type of player, he’s not Chris Bosh. I really can’t say I’d be unhappy about having him in any situation, I just want the trade to be sensible enough to not mortgage the future too much or get rid of all the good assets we have.

      In that sense, I’d be fine trading what I consider 2 of the best 3 assets we have, which in my opinion should be seen as Mitch first, the 3rd pick and then the Dallas picks. I’d start the conversation by offering the 3rd, the 2021 Dallas picks plus Knox and whoever they want from Ntilikina and / or Smith Jr, which is a very sensible package that is probably on the same level as any Boston package without Tatum.

      The next best thing that could happen is if AD and his camp comes out saying they won’t re-sign with the Celtics. That would put the Knicks into the best possible position, and then all they have to do is to bargain decently.

    146. thenoblefacehumper

      It’s perfectly conceivable that AD would be the best player on a team with himself, Kyrie, and KD. Like Bruno said there are some people being oddly flippant about him. I share everyone’s hesitation about absolutely gutting the team, but we’re not talking about Carmelo Anthony here. A team with those three and an even half-decent squad of second rounders/exception guys is probably an immediate contender.

      An interesting question is how much do we value keeping some homegrown guys around to avoid an all-mercenary team situation? Personally I don’t know how to feel about that but I can definitely understand some people’s preference to go with KD/Kyrie + our draft picks (both already made and future). That’s despite the fact that if you really are going into full-blown win now mode, trading for Davis is probably the optimal move.

    147. Zippy Le Pin

      I don’t normally indulge in future roster imaginings as they so often depend on a host of if-thens, about which we know so little. But I’ve really liked what has been suggested here, especially if you combine them.

      I’m actually fairly okay with keeping Barrett and building slow (although holy cow we’ll suck next year). But IF Durant and Irving (or IMO Kemba, but I’ve pummeled that one already) want to come THEN they have to pursue it.

      IF it looks like a go, THEN we’re suddenly in win-now mode, with a relatively short big-impact window. So you have to pursue another top-10 player in Davis if it’s an option.

      However, I’m in the don’t-put-Mitch-in-the-mix camp. IF that’s a no-go, so be it. THEN pivot and go after Beal, which was really not on my radar at all but the more I think about it the nicer a fit it is with KD and KI/KW. Great consolation prize. But keep Mitch.

      Really not sure if none of that works if we should just keep Barrett or look hard for Trade Option #3. I’m not down on him, but I do think he’s going to take time (as in a couple of years) to develop into whatever he’ll become. That’s just not a good fit with KD and whoever.

    148. DRed

      If Philly wants to they can probably trade Ben Simmons for AD and we absolutely cannot match that offer.

    149. JK47

      I’ve seen so much losing ass basketball for so long that yeah, sign me up for Durant, Irving and the Brow, even if it means a relatively short window of excellence followed by another teardown.

      A potential young core of Mitch, RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina and Alonzo Trier is not a whole lot to be excited about. I love Mitch, but the rest of those guys are mediocre to bad prospects. If we had drafted well over the past few years or if we had won the Zion lottery I would feel different but you know what they say about my aunt and her balls.

      Should have tanked sooner instead of chasing the Derrick Rose/Joakim Noah/Courtney Lee triangular dream but what are you gonna do.

    150. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I love Mitch but the roster has very little upside otherwise. Knox and Ntilikina are hot garbage. Trier shows occasional goodness but is not that young and will need to show a lot more to be a viable starter, even at SG, a lower-production position. Dotson is yet another useless player a la Cleathony Early or any of those mid 2010s players who soaked up a bit of usage and then flipped out of the league. Smith will almost certainly be overpaid on his next contract, as he’s overpaid now.

      If we had gotten #1, or maybe if we get Morant, I would be in favor of a two-max cast with Zion and Mitch, probably a competitive ECF team in the east within two years, even as Durant declines.

      What’s changed for me is that Barrett and Mitch and the garbage we have is likely not enough on its own for a full rebuild. And we don’t have the luxury to see which of the players will get better year over year.

      So yeah, if you can get Irving, Durant and Davis, fuck it, push all the chips in. Would be the best three-star lineup in the league.

    151. Hubert

      I think we should also not underrate Davis. He’s a major star, a top 10 type of player, he’s not Chris Bosh

      I don’t think he’s Chris Bosh. I think he’d be minimized the way Bosh was. Huge difference.

      It’s perfectly conceivable that AD would be the best player on a team with himself, Kyrie, and KD.

      I agree. But the other two would have the ball much more often. Durant isn’t coming here to defer.

    152. Owen

      Embiid and Davis would be an interesting combination.

      Simmons would be stoked to go back to Louisiana I am sure.

      It’s really incredible how up in the air things are. Range of possibilities has never been wider (outside of that moment where there were three picks left in the lottery) and may never be again.

    153. Brian Cronin

      I’d trade tons for AD. Heck, I would even trade Mitch. I just wouldn’t trade Mitch and Barrett. That’s just too rich for my blood.

    154. geo

      dang, it’s already friday again…time just moves so freaking fast…

      last night’s game was a bit disheartening…as much as i respect the warriors and actually enjoy watching their roster compete, and how they play the game – i’m just tired of seeing them win and make it to the finals over and over again…

      when the playoffs started i actually believed the field would beat them this year…not, very confident about that now…

      i expect another good game between the bucks and raptors tonight…it’s good to see brogdon back out there…

    155. Bruno Almeida

      @166

      But my point is that Chris Bosh was minimized because he wasn’t that good to begin with. He was a pretty good player, he could score well and rebound, but when you have Wade and LeBron there’s no way you give him any sort of preference in terms of touches in your team.

      I’m arguing that Davis is a different beast. He’s a DPOY candidate when he’s healthy, which already makes him more impactful than Bosh in one end of the court. He’s an elite level, beastly rebounder and shot blocker and that won’t be diminished one bit with Durant and Irving on the team, and that’s a major impact.

      He’s also one of the best finishers in the league at the rim, which should actually be enhanced playing together with Irving and Durant for all the spacing and playmaking they can provide. Yes, he would have to deal with having less touches overall and becoming mostly a finisher inside and spot up shooter in many possessions, but he also happens to be an adequate 3 point shooter who’s mobile enough to play all sorts of pick and rolls with both KD and Irving. What can a defense even do to guard a Durant / Davis pick and roll?

      So yes, his impact would be diminished in some areas, but in most of the areas where he’s an elite level player, it wouldn’t.

    156. KnickfaninNJ

      Boston and Philly are much more likely destinations for Davis than the Knicks. They can offer stars and close to stars for Davis. We all like Robinson but he doesn’t meet that criterion. The Clippers probably want Davis too, but they would have to offer Gallinari and Williams and I don’t think that will be the sort is players NO will want. Generally speaking, the type of tean that will probably get Davis is a disappointed playoff contender that wants to improve

    157. ClashFan

      I totally get it. I’ll understand if the Knicks sign KD and Kyrie, then sell the farm for AD. I really like AD as a player, though he does seem to get dinged up quite a bit. I’ll root hard for that team, even the overrated narcissist that is Kyrie Irving, b/c he can be a very nice complement to KD if he plays that way.

      And I have no illusions that DSJ, Frank, and Knox don’t all suck. But I think the big three above would be hugely risky (are all 3 of those guys going to avoid missing significant time due to injury in any given year? Doubtful going forward). Likely a bunch of crap on the roster with them…no depth at all.

      Sure, they’ll win 50+ games and be contenders, and that will be fun, but Milwaukee, Philly, Toronto and Boston will still be very serious competition. Expectations will be through the roof, and if that team were to make a second round exit, no one would be very happy.

      I guess as a fallback to trusting the process, sign KD and Kyrie, but pass on AD. Those two, plus Mitch. If you do that, trade the #3 pick and maybe some sort of Knox/DSJ/Frank/1st round pick poo poo platter for a solid third guy (Knox probably has more value around the league).

      BTW, if KD and Kyrie come, DSJ must go. He won’t want to play second fiddle to any of those guys and will likely sulk, or worse. Maybe Knox + DSJ + the #3 pick gets a strong 3rd guy?

      Kornet, Trier, and Frank might be the start of a decent, if not real good, bench.

    158. Brian Cronin

      He won’t want to play second fiddle to any of those guys and will likely sulk, or worse.

      I doubt DSJ would mind taking a back seat to Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. It’s one thing to be annoyed by being passed by by a rookie, it’s another thing to be passed by by two superstars.

    159. Brian Cronin

      How in the fuck did Lebron James make it to four straight NBA Finals with the Heat, then leave to join the Cavaliers and make four straight NBA Finals with the Heat? That is in-sane.

      I was just thinking about how the Warriors will be only the second team to ever make it to five NBA Finals in a row. That’s impressive as fuck, but it’s still insane to me that Lebron made four in a row with two different teams, back-to-back. Insane.

    160. ClashFan

      I doubt DSJ would mind taking a back seat to Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. It’s one thing to be annoyed by being passed by by a rookie, it’s another thing to be passed by by two superstars.

      I rarely disagree with you, but do on this. From what I’ve read of the guy, he’s got a huge ego and wants the be the man. Hey, maybe he’ll grow up and accept a 12-15 min. bench role, but I’ll have to see it to believe it. Not good for his next contract.

    161. Hubert

      I see what you mean, Bruno.

      It just seems to me that there is rarely a “big 3” with three ball dominant guys. One of them has to be a finisher, like Klay Thompson, Ray Allen, James Worthy, etc.

      Durant isn’t coming here to be anyone’s sidekick, and Kyrie’s wasted off the ball. AD may just be better than both of them, but I don’t see how he can be the AD we know in that role.

      Having said, I would take him in heartbeat. I just wouldn’t give up as much as I would if here coming here without Durant and Kyrie.

    162. swiftandabundant

      So we all know what DSJ is thinking now.

      Dallas sucked. Even with Doncic they sucked. Its very different to be told to take a smaller role on a team that is no good vs. being told to take a smaller role on a team with two of the best players in the league and you’re team is winning more games than not.

    163. geo

      @121

      I never went too much into this because I’m a pretty huge deleuzian so to speak, but I took two tests once upon a time and came out as ENFP, not that I really know what that means.

      howdy bruno, i wanted to follow up on this. I just took a glance at what a deleuzian/Rhizome philosophy means…i’m going to have to read some more though to understand it…

      i was trying to find a decent summary for the ENFP designation, but, even the summaries take up a whole page :)

      here’s Key ENFP Characteristics
      ENFPs have excellent people skills. In addition to having an abundance of enthusiasm, they also genuinely care about others. ENFPs are good at understanding what other people are feeling. Given their zeal, charisma, and creativity, they can also make great leaders.
      People with this personality type strongly dislike routine and prefer to focus on the future. While they are great at generating new ideas, they sometimes put off important tasks until the last minute. Dreaming up ideas but not seeing them through to completion is a common problem.
      ENFPs can also become easily distracted, particularly when they are working on something that seems boring or uninspiring.
      ENFPs are flexible and like to keep their options open. They can be spontaneous and are highly adaptable to change. They also dislike routine and may have problems with disorganization and procrastination.
      as far as the personality type testing stuff, here’s a brief summary on what it means to test as a ENFP:

      i’ll be honest – at times reading through some of these descriptions i get a strong “i’m actually reading some kind of horoscope vibe”…

    164. geo

      although i don’t completely understand the science behind it (much like horoscopes :), i do trust the process/results as being an accurate reflection of how we operate…

      for myself, i found this personality type testing to be useful towards a path for self-actualization..being the person you want to be, by having an idea of some key personality traits which currently exist within you on how you may interact with the world…not to say that you can change your personalty type, but, rather how to work within your own personality structure to achieve your goals…

      plus, who doesn’t like reading about themselves :)

      ugh, i think i may have done a shitty job explaining, but, i believe this is a useful tool for everyone…

    165. DS

      It’s based on psychoanalytic theory, not scientific method… which is not to say that it’s the same as reading horoscopes.

    166. geo

      it’s still insane to me that Lebron made four in a row with two different teams, back-to-back. In–sane.

      for how long though was the narrative that the eastern conference was far and away inferior (in terms of individual/team talent) than the western conference…

      seems one dominant player was able to hold their influence over those other 14 teams that he competed against…it is pretty insane though, especially cuz one injury (like he had this season) would have prevented that from happening…

    167. geo

      It’s based on psychoanalytic theory, not scientific method… which is not to say that it’s the same as reading horoscopes.

      well, there goes my whole world crashing down in a heap :)

      seriously though, what you said was on my mind a bunch yesterday when i started thinking about the whole personality type testing stuff and the process for it…i remember though at the time i was first introduced to it – (in my early 20’s), it did help a bunch…

      i also remember about a decade before that digging through all my mom’s horoscope books (in her defense – this was the 70’s)…hmmmmm, i wonder what category extreme narcissism falls under…i guess that would be the whole introvert thing…

    168. bidiong

      Re: AD

      No trade Mitch…

      Offer the Pelicans the unprotected Dallas pick, #3, DSJ, whatever salary filler/young guys of ours they want that you need to make it work, and our unprotected first the same year as Dallas’. That’s plenty of assets for them. If they can do better than that let them and make other moves if we have KD and Kyrie.

    169. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Stretching Noah limited the Knick options, but Perry did something nice. The contracts of Jenkins, Ellenson and Garrett are non-guaranteed next season for 2m, 1.6m, and 1,4m. They could be useful in the event Kyrie (or Kemba/Kawhi) doesn’t join KD here. We sign KD, then use Lance’s and those 3 contracts to help make #’s work in an AD trade. My guess is NO would want #3 pick, Mitch and other picks instead of DSJ/Frank/Knox so that 5m in non-guaranteed contracts could be important. Also we then might be able to deal some combination of Frank/DSJ/Knox/Trier/Dotson for a decent player or 2 (maybe Covington?). Not ideal at all, we’d have KD/AD/Covington and not much else but my guess is the FO would do that if Kyrie/Kemba/Kawhi have no interest in Knicks. They’d be desperate because I doubt KD signs without a 2nd star.

    170. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Never mind, I just realized we might be able to take AD’s contract into our cap space if Kyrie doesn’t sign here. No matching would be required. Still nice to have those non-guaranteed contracts. They’d have to be renounced if we’re signing Kyrie and KD but maybe they could be used in a deal after KD and AD join team (AD’s salary is “just” 27m).

    171. JK47

      Myers-Briggs isn’t super scientific but it’s an interesting kind of shorthand way to understand some things about yourself and people you know.

      For instance, I’m INFP and my wife is INFJ, and just about all of our disagreements stem from the difference in that last letter, perceiving vs judging. One of my best friends is INTP, and we’re very similar except that he tends to respond to things logically while I tend to respond emotionally.

      It’s more of a fun party game kind of thing than actual science, but I find it kind of interesting.

    172. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Let’s put it this way:

      The Warriors need to win ten more consecutive playoff series against the West to match LeBron’s total. Even if the West is better, it’s still a unique and incredible feat. He had a lot of help early on, but that help got questionable at the end.

    173. Name is Bron - James Bron

      So Hubert tell me if this scenario could work according to your spreadsheets:
      Step 1: Sign KD
      Step 2: Trade #3 pick/Mitch/Mavs picks for AD (AD’s 27m fits into our space)
      Step 3: Trade Lance/Knox/DSJ/1st round pick/3 non-guaranteed contracts for Beal
      Step 4: Trade Frank/Trier/Charlotte picks for Covington

      Starters: Kadeem/Beal/Covington/KD/AD
      Bench: Dotson/Kornet/Room exception

      Not sure that’s enough for either Beal or Covington, might have to add another 1st round pick.

      Also I wonder if Kornet in a sign-and-trade is possible in putting a package together. He’d have to agree to destination but there are other restrictions like # of players involved in deal.

    174. Bruno Almeida

      Thanks geo! Because of my formation I really don’t tend to assign much value to any sort of categorization of human beings, no matter how precise and well thought out it might be, because well, the main thing I believe in is the ability to change and the power of difference as a concept. But I do think it’s amusing and it’s something that can help us in our ways of creating ourselves, it just can’t become a rule or a strict category that stifles the possibilities for difference.

    175. geo

      Pretty sure the Briggs-Myer shit is all bullshit though

      holy cow – just googled the question: “how scientific is the myers-briggs personality test”…

      there is a whole bunch written on this very topic…although derived largely from Jung (who seems to be a somewhat controversial figure in of himself), it does “touch” on some neuroscience “features”…current big proponent is this individual named dario nardi (who actually has PhD in something)…but, who also makes money off of the myers-briggs stuff…

      ironically my mom’s horoscope book was named “love signs”, and, how the different zodiac signs were compatible with one another…as jk mentioned above – the myers briggs stuff does seem well suited towards defining relationships with others…

      still not letting go of the”mastermind” title the test granted me :)

    176. geo

      you rock bruno…man, the things i learn here…

      like, don’t trade mitch – no matter what…

    177. Bruno Almeida

      The way I see it, a process like this one can help me like a photograph can help me: it can show things that exist right now, patterns that I am currently following in my behavior and my relations with others. But it can’t tell me anything about my future or how those relationships will develop or how will I feel about myself, because that’s always subject to change and to the effects of the work I put on myself. So yeah, it can be interesting, as long as we ignore the predictive nature of those categories and take them for what they are.

      I won’t go to much on the rhizome and stuff like that, but there’s plenty of decent to good content on YouTube if you want to dig a bit deeper, specially at an introductory level. And you rock, geo.

    178. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      When you think about the Heat with James, Wade and Bosh all at their peaks, the mystery is not how they got to the finals 4 times in the “east”. The mystery is how they lost to Dallas once, San Antonio once, and were way beyond lucky to beat San Antonio the other time. IMO, that team under performed. I think I know why, but it’s close to impossible to prove.

      Over the last few years the east sucked. It really isn’t that shocking that James with a solid supporting cast of Love/Kyrie and some good role players could get past the bums in the east. That same team at their peak would struggle to get past the Bucks, Raptors, and some of the other up and coming teams in east now. They might beat them and have the best of it long term, but they wouldn’t win every year.

      In the west, the competition has been so vastly deeper and better (though not this year), it has been a lot tougher to string finals experiences. The Warriors are simply among the all time greats.

    179. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      I realize some people here have given up on Knox and Frank because one is among the worst offensive player in the NBA getting regular rotation minutes and the other among the worst defensive players in he NBA getting regular minutes. But IMO, it depends on what your expectations are. I still think both can become very good players even if they aren’t stars. They both have some good attributes to go along with their blatant weaknesses on the court. They are both very young and in some ways younger than their actual ages. It’s going to take “years” to find out.

    180. DRed

      IMO, that team under performed. I think I know why, but it’s close to impossible to prove.

      The simple answer is that Chris Bosh is a tremendously overrated basketball player and Wade was exiting his prime when Lebron showed up. The “Big 3″ was mostly a media creation. The Heat was Lebron and some good players.

      To over simplify, Lebron’s BPM for his Heat years was

      8.6
      11
      11.6
      8.9

      That was the highest BPM in the NBA each of those seasons.

      Wade was 5.9, 6.1, then fell off to 3.9 and 2.3. Bosh’s 4 year peak was 1.2. BPM might be underrating Bosh for some reason, but if you look at WS he’s better but significantly worse than early Wade or Lebron (who also led the NBA in WS/48 for 3 of his Heat years). They definitely should have beat the Mavs with Lebron and a late prime Wade surrounded by some other very useful players, but that Spurs team the exhausted Heat lost to was significantly better than Miami.

    181. yellowboy90

      Is there anyway to out price the Bucks for Brogdon and what would be too much gor him?

      If Kyrie is the pg the knicks need a secondary ball handler when he is out. A cheaper older and lesser option would be Pat Beverley.

    182. Bruno Almeida

      I think Brogdon will probably get offers around 20 million per year, and I doubt the Bucks even consider letting him go, I think they’ll simply re-sign everyone letting maybe Mirotic and or Lopez go if they end up being too expensive. They’ll be heavily over the cap no matter what they do just by re-signing one or two of their free agents anyway.

    183. DRed

      The Bucks guys around Giannis are going to get overpaid but I don’t think any NBA front office would have the stones to let them walk and try to rebuild as Giannis approaches free agency.

    184. DRed

      Indiana is pretty boring he did what he had to do. At least now we know why his stats nosedived.

    185. Bruno Almeida

      Here comes the NBA banning their usual random player every two years to show how much we care about drug use!

    186. Bruno Almeida

      It does sadden me a little that Tyreke will now probably never fulfill his destiny to become a Knicks player.

    187. Pagliacci

      It does sadden me a little that Tyreke will now probably never fulfill his destiny to become a Knicks player.

      Eureka! The perfect comp for RJ was under our noses the whole time — check out his college stats.

    188. yellowboy90

      So if the Bucks does go to the finals do they pay their core and keep Hill for one more year? They could save $17m off his $18m contract by waiving him in June but would it be wise to keep him a make another run to the finals.

    189. bobneptune

      Caesar’s Sports Book has the Knicks as third choice to win the
      NBA title next year….. WTF…. I hope they “know” something I don’t!

    190. geo

      Caesar’s Sports Book has the Knicks as third choice to win the
      NBA title next year…..

      damn, i wish i could take bets on the knicks winning it all next year…

    191. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      It’s kinda crazy how both times the Knicks hired a coach this decade, the guy they wanted went on to take a job and turn a team into a juggernaut. Kerr with the current Warriors and Budenholzer with the Bucks. I’m still all in with Fizdale, but damn it would be nice to have an elite coach.

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