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Monday, July 16, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.06.23)

  • [ESPN] Porzingis, Knox bond over ‘boos’ on draft night
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 6:10:05 PM)

    Knicks first-rounder Kevin Knox got a call from Kristaps Porzingis on Thursday, who told Knox that the boos he heard on draft night will eventually turn into cheers.

  • [NYTimes] Carmelo Anthony Is Not Planning to Opt Out of His Thunder Contract
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 9:13:05 PM)

    There are 27.9 million reasons for this decision.

  • [NYTimes] Why the N.F.L. and the N.B.A. Are So Far Apart on Social Justice Stances
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 2:59:51 PM)

    The way teams and players are marketed and the balance of star power in each league begin to explain how the leagues got on different sides of this cultural divide.

  • [NYTimes] 2018 N.B.A. Draft Results: Analysis of Every Pick in Round 1
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 3:41:33 PM)

    The Phoenix Suns took the Arizona big man Deandre Ayton with the first pick in the draft. Here’s a look at the entire first round.

  • [NYPost] Don’t expect Knicks to be active in free agency
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:35:09 AM)

    Knicks general manager Scott Perry didn’t sound as if he will be signing LeBron James in July. Or as if he’ll have any cap space at all. If center Enes Kanter opts in by June 29, as would seem the judicious move, the Knicks will have just their $8.4 million mid-level exception to wield July…

  • [NYPost] What Kristaps Porzingis told the Knicks’ top draft pick
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 9:04:56 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis has gone from exit-interview blow-off malcontent to team leader in one offseason. Kevin Knox, the Knicks’ No. 9 selection in Thursday’s NBA draft, received a big, 7-foot-3 welcome from Porzingis late Thursday night. According to Knox, Porzingis called him on FaceTime from Madrid, where he is doing his ACL rehab at soccer giant…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ top pick needs to be ready for NYC pressure cooker
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 4:24:18 PM)

    Shortly before the Knicks picked fourth in 2015 — their highest selection since they won the first NBA lottery — the grand prize from the 1985 draft, Patrick Ewing, was asked about playing in New York. “Whoever they get,” Ewing said, “tell him he better have a thick skin. A really thick skin.” No one…

  • [NYPost] Knicks feeling lucky athletic ‘Clint Capela-type’ fell to them
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 2:53:21 PM)

    Knicks new 7-foot shotblocking center Mitchell Robinson is a mystery man – and man of few words. Robinson, 20, let Knicks coach David Fizdale and team brass do the hyping for him after becoming their second-round pick at No. 36 in Thursday’s draft. At Friday’s introductory press conference for Kevin Knox and Robinson, Fizdale even…

  • [NYPost] David Fizdale cranks up the Kevin Knox hype
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 12:05:40 PM)

    Forget the notion that 18-year-old Kevin Knox’s rookie season will be spent as a reserve. Knicks coach David Fizdale said he has confidence the second-youngest player in this year’s NBA draft can crack the starting lineup at small forward. In rave reviews about the Knicks’ first-round pick, who was selected at No. 9 Thursday, Fizdale…

  • [NYPost] Kevin Knox has some strange Knicks draft history on his side
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 8:40:24 AM)

    Kevin Knox and Kristaps Porzingis already have one thing in common. Both were booed on draft night — and the same young fan, Jordan, who was seen crying after the Knicks drafted Porzingis was among those jeering at Knox and chanting to take Michael Porter Jr. instead at No. 9 on Thursday. “We were hoping…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks sign Arizona G Allonzo Trier to two-way contract
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:15:20 AM)

    Former Arizona guard Allonzo Trier has signed a two-way contract with the Knicks, and will be in New York City next week, a source close to Trier told SNY.tv.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks rookie Mitchell Robinson will need major support, may head to G League
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 4:30:20 PM)

    Knicks rookie Mitchell Robinson will need a major support structure around him as he begins his NBA career, and that career could begin in the G League.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Fizdale has high expectations, compares Knox to Tatum
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 3:00:29 PM)

    Knicks head coach David Fizdale isn’t setting modest expectations for Kevin Knox and Mitchell Robinson.

  • [SNY Knicks] SEE IT: Back pages in New York after Knicks draft Kevin Knox
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 11:30:38 AM)

    The Knicks took Kentucky’s Kevin Knox with the No. 9 pick in the NBA Draft on Thursday night at Barclays Center.

  • [SNY Knicks] ICYMI: Knicks Knox – Reaction, analysis, more on big Draft night
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 11:00:55 AM)

    The Knicks took Kentucky’s Kevin Knox with the No. 9 pick at the NBA Draft on Thursday. Here’s what went down, in case you missed it…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks got a ‘steal’ in Mitchell Robinson, his trainer says
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 10:15:13 AM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — The Knicks went out on a limb and selected Mystery Man Mitchell Robinson with the No. 36 pick in the NBA Draft.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks reportedly agree to deal with Arizona’s Allonzo Trier
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 9:53:37 AM)

    The Knicks reportedly agreed to a two-way deal with former Arizona guard Allonzo Trier.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks legend Monroe on Knox, LeBron and the greatest backcourt
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 9:30:00 AM)

    In picking the younger Kevin Knox over the more polished Mikal Bridges, the Knicks went with a player who had a “high upside,” according to former legend Earl Monroe.

  • [NYDN] Deadly blast hits Ethiopia rally after new prime minister speaks to giant crowd
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 2:40:00 AM)

    ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia — A deadly explosion struck a huge rally for Ethiopia’s reformist new prime minister on Saturday shortly after he spoke and was waving to the crowd that had turned out in numbers unseen in recent years in the East African nation.

    Addressing the country minutes after he was…

  • [NYDN] Dog dies after left inside hot car while owner visited Florida bar
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 2:25:00 AM)

    SEBASTIAN, Fla. — Authorities say a dog died after its owner left it in a hot car to spend the afternoon at a Florida bar.

    Treasure Coast Newspapers reports that 64-year-old Harold Krages was arrested Thursday and charged with animal cruelty.

    Sebastian police say Krages arrived at Earl’s Hideaway…

  • [NYDN] Planned Parenthood sues feds over efforts to push abstinence-only on teens
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 2:15:00 AM)

    SPOKANE, Wash. — Several affiliates of Planned Parenthood sued the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Friday over its efforts to impose an abstinence-only focus on its Teen Pregnancy Prevention Program that has served more than 1 million young people.

    The lawsuits were filed in federal…

  • [NYDN] Plastic will pile up around the world thanks to China recycling ban, study says
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 2:05:00 AM)

    PORTLAND, Maine — China’s decision to stop accepting plastic waste from other countries is causing plastic to pile up around the globe, and wealthy countries must find a way to slow the accumulation of one of the most ubiquitous materials on the planet, a group of scientists said.

    The scientists…

  • [NYDN] Protect buildings, and neighborhoods: The landmarks commission needs to do its job again
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    In the 1950s and into the 1960s, the indiscriminate bulldozer worked overtime to clear out New York City’s past to make way for an anti-urban, car-centric future.

    By the mid-1960s, the soul of the city was under assault. Penn Station was about to fall. Robert Moses had declared both Greenwich Village…

  • [NYDN] A second opinion: Police Commissioner O’Neill is right to convene an outside panel to investigate disciplinary procedures
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 1:05:00 AM)

    Police Commissioner Jimmy O’Neill has spoken plenty about accountability and transparency. But the department he leads has miles to go: Reporting by The News’ Graham Rayman and Rocco Parascandola raises big questions about double standards in treatment of rank-and-file officers and senior “white…

  • [NYDN] Former N.C. teacher accused of sex offenses with minor linked to Anthony Weiner scandal
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    STATESVILLE, N.C. — A former North Carolina high school teacher has been arrested on sex offenses involving a minor.

    The Gaston County Sheriff’s Office says 54-year-old Jonathan Conrad Busch of Mooresville is charged with two counts each of statutory rape of a child under the age of 15 and indecent…

  • [NYDN] Man with gun tattoo on face busted for possessing firearm
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:30:00 AM)

    A South Carolina man with a gun tattooed on his face was busted for allegedly possessing a firearm.

    Michael Vines, who is federally prohibited from possessing a gun, was spotted throwing a loaded .38-caliber revolver into the grass after a car crash, the Greenville Police Department said on its…

  • [NYDN] Flight attendant pleads guilty in Los Angeles to turtle smuggling
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    LOS ANGELES — Federal prosecutors say a flight attendant for a Chinese airline has pleaded guilty to attempting to smuggle nearly two-dozen spotted and box turtles in a carry-on bag from Los Angeles to China.

    The U.S. Attorney’s Office says Huaqian Qu, a Chinese national, entered his plea Thursday…

  • [NYDN] Readers sound off on immigration, the flag and John Wayne
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    The meaning of detention camps

    Haines Falls, N.Y.: Mexicans were separated from their children at the border with President Trump’s ridiculous disparaging that these are really bad people. Well, Mr. Trump, the only one who is bad is facing you in the mirror. To arrest Pablo Villavicencio, married…

  • [NYDN] Hungry rat busts into ATM, chomps on $19,000 in cash
    (Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    GAUHATI, India — It was a cash machine heist with a difference: The attackers were hungry rodents.

    At least one rat slipped through a hole in the back of an ATM in northeastern India and started eating. By the time it was finished, police say more than $19,000 in bills were shredded.

    When technicians…

  • [NYDN] New Jersey woman admits to crime spree, robbing bank dressed as nun
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 11:55:00 PM)

    NEWARK, N.J. — A New Jersey woman has admitted her role in a monthlong crime spree across two states, including an attempted bank robbery in Pennsylvania where she and another woman dressed as nuns.

    Melisa Aquino Arias also pleaded guilty Friday to robbing a bank in Garfield, New Jersey, while…

  • [NYDN] Kentucky warehouse collapses, sending thousands of whiskey barrels crashing to the ground
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 11:45:00 PM)

    LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Thousands of whiskey barrels crashed into a massive heap Friday when a large section of a decades-old storage warehouse collapsed at a distillery in the heart of Kentucky bourbon country.

    The damaged warehouse at the Barton 1792 Distillery in Bardstown held about 18,000 barrels,…

  • [NYDN] Pennsylvania man convicted of slashing his baby slapped with 26 years in prison
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 11:00:00 PM)

    LANCASTER, Pa. — A man convicted of kidnapping his newborn daughter, slashing her neck and cramming her into a trash bag inside a backpack has been sentenced to at least 26 years in prison.

    David Sleets was found guilty in April of attempted murder. The 37-year-old was sentenced Thursday to 26…

  • [NYDN] Man fatally stabbed in the neck in Queens attack
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 11:00:00 PM)

    A Queens man was fatally stabbed Friday night outside his home in what police are investigating as a domestic dispute turned violent.

    Cops responding to a 911 call made just before 10 p.m. by the victim, George Bartoli, 70, found him face down in his Queens Village driveway at 220-12 104th Avenue…

  • [NYDN] Teens arrested in death of 9-year-old girl shot while sitting in car
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 11:00:00 PM)

    CLEVELAND — Authorities in Cleveland say two 17-year-old boys and a 19-year-old man have been arrested in the death of a 9-year-old girl struck by an errant gunshot during an exchange of fire nearby.

    Cleveland police said Friday an arrest warrant has also been issued for a 16-year-old in Wednesday’s…

  • [NYDN] Man dressed in suit paddle boards across Hudson River
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 10:30:00 PM)

    A New Jersey man looking to save time and money found a new way to commute.

    Dressed in a suit and hauling a briefcase, Scott Holt paddled on a board across the Hudson River on Thursday, creating an unusual sight for commuters on the New York Waterway Ferry.

    Holt, who lives in Jersey City, said…

  • [NYDN] Mazzeo: No reason for Yankees to panic after Bomber bats get baffled by Rays
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 8:50:00 PM)

    ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — The Yankees are on-pace for 111 wins — 41-14 after a 9-9 start.

    So there’s no reason to overreact to their 2-1 loss to the Rays on Friday night at Tropicana Field — even on a day when the Red Sox were able to come back from five runs down to beat the Mariners, 14-10.

    Still,…

  • [NYDN] Ship with reported norovirus outbreak stops in Alaska
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 8:45:00 PM)

    JUNEAU, Alaska — The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report an outbreak of norovirus on a cruise ship in Alaska.

    KTOO public media reports 73 people have reported getting sick on the Holland America cruise ship Zaandam.

    The ship, which is carrying more than 2,000 passengers and…

  • [NYDN] Antwon Rose protest makes way to Pirates game as car ‘plows’ through crowd: report
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 8:40:00 PM)

    Pittsburgh rallies surrounding the shooting of an unarmed teen earlier this week made its way to where the Pirates play.

    The gates at PNC Park were shut down at one point during Friday night’s game between the Pirates and Diamondbacks as crowds protesting the police shooting death of Antwon Rose…

  • [NYDN] Mets’ Zack Wheeler makes one bad pitch and takes the loss after getting slammed by Dodgers’ Cody Bellinger
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 8:15:00 PM)

    All it took was one bad inning — actually, one bad pitch — to ruin an otherwise solid Zack Wheeler performance in the Mets’ 5-2 loss to the Dodgers on Friday night at Cit Field.

    Twice Wheeler jumped to 0-2 counts on Cody Bellinger. In the second inning, he put the Dodgers’ slugging first baseman…

  • [NYDN] Fantasy Baseball: Who to play next week, including two-start pitchers
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 8:15:00 PM)

    With concerns of Super 2 out of the way, the next wave of prospects is expected to make their debuts within the next 3-4 weeks. Those owners that are either holding a deep stash of FAAB in their vaults or are sitting near the top of the waiver wire order should feel giddy because at least a couple…

  • [NYDN] Staten Island principal busted for insurance fraud
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 8:05:00 PM)

    A Staten Island high school principal was busted for lying about where she lives to save on car insurance, prosecutors said Friday.

    Oneatha Swinton, who is the acting principal at Port Richmond High School, illegally applied for a Pennsylvania driver’s license in May 2014 using a former Department…

  • [NYDN] Brooklyn rescue dog tours NYPD headquarters for Take Your Dog to Work Day
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 7:40:00 PM)

    A three-legged rescue pup took a bite out of crime Friday, touring NYPD headquarters for Take Your Dog to Work Day.

    Chaplin, a 3-year-old Shih Tzu, was found abandoned in a Bushwick apartment earlier this month, authorities said. One of his legs was severely injured; his overgrown, matted hair…

  • [NYDN] Yankees’ late rally falls short as winning streak is snapped by Rays with 2-1 loss
    (Friday, June 22, 2018 7:30:00 PM)

    ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — The Yankees’ seventh-inning rally came to an end — as did their four-game winning streak.

    After Aaron Judge’s RBI single brought the Bombers within a run in the seventh inning, Giancarlo Stanton and Didi Gregorius failed to come through and the Yankees ultimately lost 2-1…

  • 105 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.06.23)

    1. Z-man

      I just love the fact that one year ago Miles Bridges was the most Knicksy scenario we could have envisioned but this year he would have been the second best (and we really went for the worst).

      I’d rather have Knox than Miles.

    2. thenoblefacehumper

      If the plan is to put together a team appealing enough to make Kyrie Irving sign a supermax with us, man, that would be depressing while totally predictable.

    3. Z-man

      One rule I have at my job is: never criticize a decision or policy unless you have another proposal. So let’s go on the record now. Who would you have taken? (no trade up/down scenarios allowed)

      I would have taken Lonnie Walker but could have been talked into Mikal.

    4. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Fizdale made a comment about Kevin Knox’s legendary workout that I thought was interesting. He said that Knox’s handle was much improved from the season in that workout and that was surprising. If Knox actually tightened that handle you’re talking about a very different basketball player. I just want to see him in summer league already.

    5. Hubert

      @1 There is literally nothing in that article to back up the headline. This is the money quote from Perry:

      “Yeah, our goal is to make this an attractive place,”

    6. Farfa

      At 9, with the picks already made, this would have been my list:

      Mikal
      Miles
      SGA
      Zhaire
      Porter
      Walker IV
      Robert Williams
      Troy Brown
      Kevin Knox

    7. Farfa

      Look, what scares me about Knox is the utter lack of anything apart from scoring. His handle wasn’t the problem.

    8. Early Bird

      I’ve been watching Mitchell Robinson draft interview and the Knicks post draft press conference. Wow is he awkward in an interview. I feel bad for the kid.

    9. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @4

      SGA or Troy Brown or maybe Miles. But probably SGA.

    10. Z-man

      While we are clearly not going into super-tank mode, and maybe won’t be a championship contender for the foreseeable future, its not like we aren’t on a path to getting significantly better. Lots of perennial playoff teams have taken the same road we’re on, and GSW never did a traditional tank. The last truly horrible decision we made was the Noah trade. The TH2 was not smart at all, so I understand the criticism, but if he was our most overpaid player, it would be ok. Lee has given decent production for his salary and might still be a trade asset. The Melo deal was a steal, so there’s that. Who gives a shit about the Ron Baker deal? And we haven’t squandered a 1st rounder in a win-now deal.

      I think KP signs a mini-max extension for sure, he loves NY and the knee will keep him from risking the QO. While he may never produce that kind of value, I think he will always have trade value just based on his aura except at the super-max. Frank, Knox, Dotson, Robinson, Williams and Trier all have upside…maybe even Mudiay and Kornet! Burke is a solid backup PG. We hired a coach specifically to work with young players and the FO is preaching patience, becoming younger and more athletic.

      So we are on a path more similar to Toronto, Indiana, Miami, Denver, Milwaukee, etc. to get better. None are true contenders yet but they have winning cultures without ever having gone into all-out tank mode. Each has a couple of dumb contracts, unfortunate draft picks and/or coaching debacles.

      It’s better to hope for that than for the impossible. We are simply not tanking in the Philly sense, ever.

    11. thenoblefacehumper

      I would have taken Mikal, but I would’ve gladly made the trade Phoenix made when they came calling (which we have every reason to believe they would have).

      I mean, I had pretty much every conceivable option ranked ahead of Knox. Mikal was my preference but I could’ve lived with SGA, Zhaire Smith, Robert Williams, Troy Brown, and even Miles Bridges. I would’ve preferred to talk myself into Lonnie Walker—I think there’s more there than there is for Knox. Ironically, the only option I might’ve picked Knox over was the one the crowd was pining for (MPJ).

    12. ptmilo

      But they are similar enough for me to call Mikal a rich man’s Dotson. I’m still pretty high on Dotson even though he’s 24. I think he’s going to be a solid rotation player.

      I can’t tell what you really mean here by similar enough. What this place desperately needs is an official Knickerblogger Not-a-Bet function so us blowhards can transform vague arguments into (not)bets and keep track of them for absolutely no reason.* If I offered, say, Mikal vs. Dotson cumulative VORP (or RPM wins you pick in advance) 2018-19 through 2020-21 – highest total wins except that you also win if (a) both are below replacement level (b) they are within 1 in VORP or 3 RPM wins, would you take that (not-a) bet?

      *this is tongue and cheek except that i would totally contribute to the cost of implementing this if it was a feasible thing people wanted which i’m pretty sure it isn’t

    13. ptmilo

      Who would you have taken? (no trade up/down scenarios allowed)

      I would have taken several of the guys who went immediately behind Knox, though I wouldn’t have felt very strongly among them, here’s a rough order.

      Mikal
      Miles
      SGA
      Z Smith

      I would also like to say that if you put a gun to my head and my only choice was who would have a better NBA career #9 Kevin Knox or #46 De’Anthony Melton who will have a better NBA career, I would take Melton with very low confidence (though drafting him 9 would have been silly).

    14. Z-man

      @11 Do we know for sure that Philly was offered the deal before making the pick? If not, then you are saying you preferred Mikal over Knox on its face, and then got lucky that Phoenix was so stupid. If we do, then that’s fair.

    15. ptmilo

      One last thing. I sound like a raving Mikal fan after these last two posts but that’s not really true. I have what seems like a bland consensus-like guess on him. I would have been a lot less bummed than others if we had taken Miles, for example. I just have a low opinion on Knox as a prospect, and I think Doston has a much lower ceiling and base case than a guy like Mikal.

    16. Z-man

      At some point, you have to make a decision, so who’s the guy? A list is not fair. Has to be one guy.

    17. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Knox are going to lead us to the promised land"

      1. I’ve been saying from day 1 they aren’t going to “tank” next year either. They will be bad because Porzingis is out and we have a lot of young players that aren’t anywhere near ready. However, their “goal” or “hope” right now is to finish the season strongly when KP comes back so they can go into the off season and say to free agents, “Down the stretch we were playing some good ball. All the young guys will be better next year and if we add you we’ll be positioned to make some noise, add another player next year, and keep going.” That’s the sale pitch to get Irving or someone like that. They hoping the young players play well down the stretch.

      2. The comment about Knox’s handle is not surprising either. There’s no way these guys are just looking at a stat sheet and picking the kid with the best numbers in college. They are doing skill assessments. They probably have a checklist of individual offensive, defensive, and personality attributes that players get rated on. Then they try to figure out how they would use him and how he would fit with the other players on the team to get best out of him. The accuracy of their draft is related to the accuracy of their checklist. The stats are part of it, but not the only thing.

      3. I’m pretty convinced they were looking for a legit SF/PF wing and not a SG/SF type. Fisdale specifically brought up the height of Lee and Hardaway as a reason Knox could win the starting job. They wanted a much taller and longer guy to guard SFs and to stretch the floor as a PF in a small ball lineup. That might be one reason that took Knox over Bridges. Bridges is smaller. He’s more of another SG/SF. So unless he rated well above Knox, they were going to go with need in a marginal case. They said in one of the interviews that between similar players they would go with need.

      4. Multiple articles implied that Fisdale had a lot of input and loved Knox’s workout because he showed improvement.

    18. ptmilo

      At some point, you have to make a decision, so who’s the guy? A list is not fair. Has to be one guy.

      Mikal

    19. lavor postell

      @16 I believe Brett Brown indicated in his press conference that they didn’t get offered until after they picked Mikal.

    20. Z-man

      I really like Mikal, even without the trade possibility, but at #9 in a deep draft with the team we have, I’m going for upside and I think his is limited to a Trevor Ariza-type ceiling, which is a very good, but not great player. I just don’t get PHX trading an unprotected #1 pick for him with the team they have. But he’s a 20-30 MPG guy right now on a good team just on his 3-and-D potential.

    21. mase

      No matter who was picked there would be unrest, when are you guys going to let this go?

      Calipari has him playing the 2 all season because he’s able to create a mismatch with Knox’s size and shooting. Of course he assists and steals rates will be lower, He’s not a guard! His defensive ratings also suffered cuz he getting beat by quicker guards and has to play out to the arc. Obviously calipari trusts his athleticism and versatility,
      Fix will play him at his natural position sf and he will start to learn to use his size. This kid is going to be good, I applaud FO for having vision.

      I was uneasy with the pick but my attitude is changing because none of the players mentioned selected after him had his ceiling size youth, etc. Knox was the right pick.

    22. Ntilakilla

      Do we know for sure that Philly was offered the deal before making the pick? If not, then you are saying you preferred Mikal over Knox on its face, and then got lucky that Phoenix was so stupid. If we do, then that’s fair.

      I preferred Mikal regardless. But the fact that this Phoenix deal was available only makes me that more upset that Knox was chosen instead.

    23. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Knox are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @14

      IMO, Mikal’s primary strengths are shooting open 3s, shot selection, and potentially elite defense. His primary weakness is not being able to create his own shot off the dribble. He’s more or less average or close to average at most other things.

      IMO, Dotson’s primary strengths are shooting open 3s, potentially high caliber defense, and rebounding for the position . His primary weakness is not being able to create his own shot off the dribble.

      They have similar “profiles”.

      To compare them I think the best approach is to look at their stats in their final year of college. That way you are comparing them using the same 3 point line and against similar competition. Mikal is the better and younger player overall and actually faced better college competition. So I’d way rather have him. But they are similar enough in skillset and profile for me to call Mikal a “rich man’s Dotson”. He’s another 2/3 that can knock down shots and defend.

    24. thenoblefacehumper

      No matter who was picked there would be unrest, when are you guys going to let this go?

      People say this often, but there’s no reason to believe it’s true. Sure, there would be a contingent who didn’t like, say, Mikal. They’d have every right to make that opinion known, but no one could argue that an overwhelming number of things that generally haven’t happened in the past would have to happen for him to be worth that pick.

      That is objectively the case when it comes to Knox. Players his size, position, etc. who have put up his numbers have gone on to not become NBA contributors across the board. That is what people are upset about.

      There’s a first time for everything and, as I’ve been doing for 10 years, I’ll be hoping to get this one wrong. It would be nice to not have to do that for once, though.

    25. Ingmarrrr

      The only players I fell for in the entire draft are Doncic, Bamba, Young’s offense, and Ayton’s aura. I would have tried to trade up 3 spots for Bamba.
      But given the options available at #9, and with the very limited info Youtube provides, I would have taken Miles.

    26. mase

      26

      Yea but everyone is quick to ignore that he was kicking those guys’ asses in the workout!

      Leads me to believe they drafted him based on his ceiling and his immediate need as well as BPA!

    27. Henry George

      Trust, but verify.
      Reagan was a blind squirrel, but that phrase was his one found acorn.

      Y’all must either work for really bad authoritarian managers or are those guys yourselves. It’s a really inefficient way of doing things as it totally neglects the capacity of others (besides the manager) to propose and defend unique and possibly ingenius and/or risky choices. As an example, Trumps’ greatest failings comes largely from his egotistical authoritarian tendencies.

      Based on my understanding of the Knicks’ draft research, they were using a team-based approach to assess the positives and negatives for each player, as well as the questions or unknowns that workouts and/or interviews could address.

      Picking Knox wasn’t solely based on Mills or Perry, but rather it involved Fizdale (possibly even his new assistants too), the scouts (including Phil’s guy, Clarence Gaines), in addition to the medical staff (which was probably why MPJr kept on dropping).

      Mills and Perry clearly trust Fizdale and Gaines, as they should. Fizdale knew what to look for as was exhibited by having WCJr working on PnR switches and perimeter D in addition to looking for the improved handle, motor, awareness and physicality from Knox. Gaines’ record speaks for itself.

      My suspicion was that, before the Knox workout, the multidisciplinary team had developed a series of concerns and questions pertaining to every possible draftee.

      And of all the available choices, Kevin Knox was able to answer the largest portion of concerns and questions once he was under the Knicks’ microscope.

      While the Knox selection is loaded with substantial risk (and the Mitchell selection even more so), the Knicks’ multidisciplinary team proposed and put forth defensible reasons for those choices.

      Trust, but verify.

      At 9th, there honestly weren’t any great choices to be made. And, given the process they used to arrive at picking Kevin Knox, I choose to trust that they chose well.

    28. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Knox are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @14

      The problem with using models that try to aggregate skills into 1 number is that when people debate players they typically use their own favorite model to support their opinion. Then when that player goes from college to the pros (or another team) they use the same exact model to say “see I was right”. But you are only right if your model is right. If two people disagreed to begin with it was because they were using different evaluation techniques. So they will disagree again later. Nothing is resolved or proven.

      I’ve seen that a million times with the Wins Produced crowd.

      They have some player rated very highly. More conventional thinking rates him much lower. The player comes into the pros and is buried on the bench for multiple years on multiple teams with multiple coaches. Then they call every coach a moron for not giving him more minutes because their model still says he’s still highly productive. I’m not making a point about their model, but you can see why debating won’t work. They start with the assumption that their model is definitely right.

      I also like more concrete evidence like how the team does when he the player is on/off the court, hurt, traded, etc… Even that gets too complex, but at least it adds evidence.

    29. thenoblefacehumper

      Yea but everyone is quick to ignore that he was kicking those guys’ asses in the workout!

      Going to avoid snark here.

      Can you tell me why you think this is more important than 1000+ minutes of actual basketball?

    30. thenoblefacehumper

      At 9th, there honestly weren’t any great choices to be made. And, given the process they used to arrive at picking Kevin Knox, I choose to trust that they chose well.

      There are some front offices that I instinctually trust. For example, even at 18 I thought there were multiple better options than Lonnie Walker but I genuinely believe the Spurs have a plan for him that will make the pick look better in hindsight (and I’m personally happy he wound up there, despite my concerns about his outlook I’m rooting like hell for the guy).

      It’s baffling to me that anyone has that level of trust in the NEW YORK LOLKNICKS.

    31. mase

      32

      Not saying it’s more I’m portant than 1000 mins of college hoops.

      But if they are looking and scouting all of the players who were possibly available at 9 and one player is better than the rest and that player was playing out of position in college… we’ll who would you feel comfortable picking?
      I’m going with the best player on the court.

    32. ptmilo

      I also like more concrete evidence like how the team does when he the player is on/off the court, hurt, traded, etc… Even that gets too complex, but at least it adds evidence.

      well, RPM wins actually includes on/off so you are welcome pick that one. yes, of course, summary stats are highly imperfect. you know else imperfect? bullshit. and by that i mean words that cascade out of people’s mouths with infinite degrees of freedom.

      but look. if you think summary stats are arbitrary you would be even MORE excited to make this bet. because the best is structured such that you win all toss-ups and the entire bottom part of the distribution. if i offered you this same bet except mikal and doston would be flipping coins instead of playing basketball and producing advanced stats, you would (should) take it 7 days a week. we know VORP/RPM are flawed. but not as flawed as “similar.” similar has no meaning outside of your brain. maybe we made this same bet in 2013 with chris copeland and kelly olynyk and in retrospect you think the next 3 years were a push because “similar.”

      the overwhelming majority of the summary stat studs are also consensus studs. sure, there is lots of potential leakage. but the alternative to leakage is not drowning in empty words.

    33. mase

      The whole ‘low motor’ tag line is lethargy. Of course you’ll be a bit lethargic if your forced to play against guards who can beat you off the dribble.

      I live his reaction to the geniuses who booed him and wanted injured player Porter. “Gives me more motivation” same thing kp said! That’s not the instinctive reaction of a lethargic player!

      If he, Frank and kp click defensively which is fizs job to do, we have an official core.

    34. Z-man

      Look, I know the guy produced shitty stats in significant minutes but he was playing out of position, but he has great wingspan and is only 18 so given time and proper coaching he will surely develop into a great player. But enough about Frank.

    35. Aten

      As far as plausible alternatives to Knox, what’s wrong with just taking Zhaire at 9 if we’re ignoring trades? Three stars to the elite eight (with better production at a better rate as a freshman than Mikal had as a junior) to the lottery seems like the kind of trajectory I’d like to hitch my wagon to.

    36. Z-man

      Seriously, there are reasons to criticize the pick. However, when guys like Schmitz, who has one of the better track records in analyzing draft prospects, and 538, whose model is at least as accurate as WP40 in predicting outcomes, both say that Knox is a reasonable pick, it’s kind of disingenuous to conclude that this was a no-brainer pass based on analytics. Unless you can explain to me why those guys, despite their track records, are less trustworthy than whatever model you are relying on (which seems to be: an 18yo’s efficiency stats as a freshman in college outweigh any other factor in predicting his development.)

    37. ptmilo

      Picking Knox wasn’t solely based on Mills or Perry, but rather it involved Fizdale (possibly even his new assistants too), the scouts (including Phil’s guy, Clarence Gaines), in addition to the medical staff (which was probably why MPJr kept on dropping).

      Mills and Perry clearly trust Fizdale and Gaines, as they should. Fizdale knew what to look for as was exhibited by having WCJr working on PnR switches and perimeter D in addition to looking for the improved handle, motor, awareness and physicality from Knox. Gaines’ record speaks for itself.

      we have no idea what Gaines wanted or how involved he is. Here is Stefan Bondy from the Daily News two days ago on Clarence Gaines:

      “he’s not really involved. Combine took place near his home in chicago and he wasn’t there. Did not see him at all last season.”

    38. Z-man

      @40, there’s nothing wrong with that. Or any other scenario. For now.

      Summer League performance is hardly conclusive (see: Steph Curry, Anthony Randolph) but I am really interested in seeing how Knox looks. Last year, you could tell right away that Mitchell and Tatum were for real in Summer League.

    39. ess-dog

      I haven’t seen anything attributed to him yet, but if Gaines signed off on Knox, I’m willing to give the kid a chance.

    40. chrisconley

      @6 Good point. But I’m still wary.

      @41 As much as I hate the Knox pick it does make me feel a tiny tiny bit better to see 538’s model have him at 7 in 2025. However, they comp him (using WAR) to MKG, Young, and Looney? Yikes. Also, the model overvalues offense, strength of schedule, and youth so he’s certainly getting all of that help in the projection. And he’s basically tied with Huerter who no one in here is picking 9th, and is barely ahead of Trent Jr (who’s comps are DeRozen and Beal btw!).

    41. Z-man

      I also don’t agree with the notion that “the probability of Knox being the right pick relative to other options is analogous to a black jack bet against unfavorable odds, in that even if it turns out good, it was the wrong decision at the time.” Those same factors concluded that Jayson Tatum was a terrible pick at #3 by the Celts, and that given the same circumstances, he should still not have been selected. This is not to compare Tatum to Knox, and sure, #3 is different than #9. But scouting and analytics as it relates to draft picks can’t be reduced to simple probability, as a fair black jack scenario can. One way of putting it is that good scouting is like good card-counting. Doesn’t mean that you will win the bet, but the odds can be skewed in your favor.

    42. djphan

      CARMELO doesn’t have a great track record… and schmitz is a great analyst but i don’t think he’s involved in the rankings…. which is why he focuses on positive things with every prospect….

    43. Z-man

      @45 depends which model you look at. The first model lists as his comps as Tobias Harris, Thaddeus Young and Julius Randle, all solid NBA starters and at least 2 borderline all-stars.

      https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-most-promising-players-in-the-nba-draft-according-to-my-computer/

      Whatever, most of the comps for most of the players in the model aren’t particularly flattering. One of Ayton’s comps in both models is Jahlil Okafor. Carter Jr. has Vonleh, Chriss and Favors in one model and Favors, Stone, and Oden in the other. Zhaire Smith: Malik Beasly, Xavier Henry and Justice Winslow in one model and Winslow, Beasley and Malik Monk in the other.

      But he ranks reasonably high at #7 in both models and ranks above every guy picked below him in at least one of the two models. Only Huerter (and no one here suggested drafting him at #9) and Smith ranked above him in the pure Carmelo model.

      If you believe that using the two models considered together decreases risk, then the safest pick available to us was Knox. Smith ran a close second. So it strongly suggests that drafting Mikal, then trading him to PHX for Smith would have been the dream scenario. But Knox was the second best case. Now, you can quibble with the weighing of age as being too extreme. But there’s no disputing that it’s at least a plausible model relative to others being used to shit on the pick.

    44. Z-man

      CARMELO doesn’t have a great track record

      Tell me then, what model does? What model consistently predicts draft outcomes 5 years out?

    45. Ben R

      The problem with Knox is even if I start looking at him optimistically what am I hoping for? I can imagine him becoming a good scorer, I think his lack of athleticism will hold him back but, being optimistic, let’s say he becomes a very good volume scorer. Even best case what else are we hoping for; average rebounding, average passing, mediocre defense? So if everything breaks right and he brings his weaknesses up to average and his strengths up to very good, he’s what, a very good volume scorer who is average at rebounding, doesn’t get a ton of assists and is mediocre defensively. I don’t love that player and that’s sort of the best case outcome.

    46. ClashFan

      As we’re seeing here, the defense of Knox is that he was very young, raw, playing out of position…thus the poor stats and eye test.

      So, if true, he simply needs to play consistently hard and focused to prove the skeptics wrong, and that is something that should be evident very early on this season. We’ll all forgive not so great stats this upcoming season if the effort and focus is there, as it did not appear to be at Kentucky (except when plays were called for him).

      If he plays D like Michael-Beasley-Without-the-Rebounding as he did in college, we’ll all see that pretty quickly.

      I’m rooting for the kid despite my reservations. Sometimes guys with low motors and BBIQ never get it. Let’s hope that is NOT the case with this kid.

      I’m looking forward to seeing the new draftees and new, bigger Frank during summer league.

    47. Z-man

      Even best case what else are we hoping for; average rebounding, average passing, mediocre defense?

      I’m not sure why we are concluding that this is the best case. Why are we assuming that he will not be a decent defender or rebounder at this point? It may be unlikely, but not a certainty. He at least has the tools.

      Calipari is not a good coach, we all know that. He threw Knox on the court and there was really no accountability. I don’t think Fizdale is going to hand Knox anything. Who knows what will happen when this 18 year old has to earn his playing time for a change rather than getting gifted PT based on talent and size alone? He seems like a good, coachable kid.

    48. Z-man

      When I listened to the Robinson interview, I thought of Charles Oakley…not his game but his elocution.

    49. Ben R

      @52
      6.7 rebs for 40 for a forward prospect is really low. That’s why I think average rebounder in the NBA is probably the best case scenario.

      As for defense, he had the worst steal and block numbers of anyone drafted in the first round, and he had a poor dbpm and dws. So since he was terrible defensively last year, expecting him to be anything more than average seems like a pipe dream.

      That’s why I think best case is he raises both his defense and rebounding from terrible to average.

      Expecting Knox to be a good defender would be like expecting Ntilikina to be a volume scorer. Neither has shown any indication that that is even possible.

    50. chrisconley

      @48 I hear you and am definitely softening my hate for the pick (barely), but I only looked at the 2nd model bc that’s the stat based one. Pretty sure the first one does some weird rank averaging between the stats based model and ESPN’s scout projections. I believe scouts were largely projecting Knox at 9 in the last two days bc they were trying to correctly pick draft order and knew the Knicks were likely going with him. So that shit is borderline meaningless to me.

    51. ClashFan

      BTW, if you haven’t seen this before, I think it is a pretty fair assessment of Knox, though I think it could’ve gone a bit more in depth into his weak defensive performance this past season:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRVPATH6Szc

      I do think that, if he fills out a bit into a stretch four, that he is a plus athlete for that. I think he will struggle as a three, though, defensively, if that is what the Knicks plan to do with him. If Frank has indeed grown to 6’6 or 6’7, he may end up guarding the good threes in the league, allowing Knox to settle in at the four next to KP and THJ handling the twos. However, in that case, Knox MUST improve his rebounding.

    52. TheOakmanCometh

      How come no one is discussing the truly big news — Melo is picking up his $28m player option! I was sure he was going to hit the open market so he could cash in with a 1 year, $6m deal.

    53. Jack Bauer

      Clearly Phoenix wanted Mikal and if the Knicks had picked him they would have likely made the same offer to NY. I would have been happy with that outcome too, although not sure how Smith will actually turn out, but that unprotected #1 would have been a nice asset ( not to mention a confidence inspiring move by our FO).

      There is a lot of optimism on KB about Dotson, most of which I share. Why in hell hasn’t he gotten more burn by the Knicks so they will know one way or the other? I could be wrong (I’m sure THCJ will let me know about it if I am) but his minutes seemed very limited and sporadic last year. It would be smarter to let him play to figure out what they have instead of guessing on his potential.

    54. Ben R

      I think looking at it it’s about the type of player I want. I want defensive minded players. If I get a young, raw player I don’t want the questions to be about his effort or his defense.

      With Knox, he will have to be one hell of an offensive player to make up for his defensive shortcomings.
      Here’s hoping he is.

    55. Z-man

      Expecting Knox to be a good defender would be like expecting Ntilikina to be a volume scorer. Neither has shown any indication that that is even possible.

      More accurately, it would be like expecting Frank to be a good PG when he averaged hardly any assists per 36 and more turnovers than assists in a full year in France. What I kept hearing is “He’s a good passer with great court vision! He’ll develop!” Remember, most people who advocated for him were projecting him as a PG. I see Knox as a 3 or a small-ball 4, and there is some evidence to suggest that he has to tools to be decent defensively at that position. Rebounding? Open question, but I agree that the data so far is not promising.

    56. bidiong

      OKC is going to be a cluster next year. I wonder if Westbrook will end up punching Melo in the face during the season.

    57. Aten

      @49

      I don’t know about predicting the future but Arturo’s models the last few years have tracked pretty well with what teams who aren’t the Knicks actually do in the draft. This year the first eight players selected were recommended by at least one model. Arturo says don’t take Knox, Knicks take Knox. 10 goes for Zaire and a pick, 11 for SGA, both also model picks. Last year first six picks are recommended by at least one model. Arturo says don’t take a flier on a Euro in an NCAA class this deep, Knicks take Ntilikina. Then six more model-recommended selections.

    58. Zippy Le Pin

      Long, potential offensive player, can play the 3-4, mediocre rebounder, bad defender, takes plays off. Minus the head case — and the proven scoring — aren’t we talking Beasley?

    59. thenoblefacehumper

      Like djphan said you can see how various models have performed over time at tothemean.com (personally I think Jesse Fischer’s APEX and Kevin Pelton’s WARP do pretty well), but honestly I think the best way to evaluate prospects is still to compare their numbers to Ed Weiland’s benchmarks. If they miss 1 or 2 that shouldn’t be considered a death knell and that’s where I think scouting comes into play–you should try to determine why that happened and whether or not it’s a legitimate issue(s).

      If they miss damn near all of them like Knox, then, well…

    60. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Yeah, at least the Mitchell Robinson pick is reason to be excited.

      What’s the over/under that in 4 years Robinson is a starter and Knox is out of the league?

    61. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Actually, that isn’t a fair bet…Robinson could be a starter next year.

      And everyone knows that highish lottery picks gets chance after chance despite sucking…Hello Emanuel!

    62. Z-man

      @67 Is there a comparable analysis for past drafts?

      Really interesting website! My questions are: for, say, lottery picks, how many players overperform the model? How many underperform? What is the variance by age? How many guys that underperformed in the model became excellent NBA players? What were last year’s results and how did they pan out thus far?

      If there’s enough variance, do you follow the model religiously or do you consider possible outliers?

      To clarify, I’m not defending the Knox pick (I made it clear that he wasn’t my guy) but playing devil’s advocate.

    63. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I wonder if Westbrook feels like Durant did after Game 7 in Golden State — you’re clearly better than your “star” teammate who just chucked you out of contention, and you know he’s never going to change.

      The irony is pretty rich.

    64. JK47

      My best guess is that Knox turns out to be a good-not-great scorer, TS% in like the .540 range, and won’t do much else. That’s not really a winning player, so he’ll need to do stuff he’s never shown the ability to do to turn out to be a plus player. Like many have said here, he’ll either need to develop into an outstanding scorer, or somehow radically improve his secondary skills to make this a worthwhile pick. “He was good in the workout doe” as the main rationale for drafting him does not make me think kind things about this FO.

    65. 2FOR18, understands math

      The TH2 was not smart at all, so I understand the criticism, but if he was our most overpaid player, it would be ok. Lee has given decent production for his salary and might still be a trade asset. The Melo deal was a steal, so there’s that. Who gives a shit about the Ron Baker deal?

      You once mocked me for my screen name, but this kind of post is exactly what led me to change it to this.

      Edit: though I guess I should add “doesn’t understand html” to it.

    66. Ingmarrrr

      if Gaines signed off on Knox, I’m willing to give the kid a chance.

      I think Gaines is no longer with the Knicks.

    67. thenoblefacehumper

      @67 Is there a comparable analysis for past drafts?

      On the site you can look at every draft from 1991 to 2018. Just change the “draft year” tab to whichever you want to look at.

    68. billybaggs

      Just a random thought about where Lebron should go next season…What a better way of sticking it to KD than to sign a 1 year deal with OKC. A lineup of Westbrook, Lebron, Melo, Adams and the return of Roberson would beat any team in the West! After that hit the free agent market again when more teams have available money.

    69. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      But for the first time, it will have Olympic Hoodie Third-Option Melo! And he won’t be asked to create his own shots, like he had to with Paul George!

    70. JK47

      But for the first time, it will have Olympic Hoodie Third-Option Melo! And he won’t be asked to create his own shots, like he had to with Paul George!

      #Synergy
      #GravityEffect
      #WhereHaveYouGoneRuru

    71. ClashFan

      I can’t imagine Lebron coexisting with Westbrook, much less having to deal with a washed up Melo.

    72. 2FOR18, understands math

      The mikal/Dotson comparison is off. In addition to the steal/block numbers not being close, Mikal is an elite finisher.
      I’m basing the elite finisher thing on watching him play and his career .645 2pt%. (Dotson’s was .535 in college, and if he finished any shots at the rim last season I missed it).

    73. 2FOR18, understands math

      I would buy the nba season pass just for the comedy of watching LeBron play with Westbrook and old melo.
      Not happening.

    74. Z-man

      Funny, not a single metric had Donovan Mitchell in the top ten. Lots of them had Malik Monk in the top ten (one metric had him at #1!) Nearly every one had Jayson Tatum in the top 10 and yet the consensus here was that he was overrated and the most likely to bust. You would think that at least someone here would have been staunchly defending the Tatum pick and crying out for us to take Monk.

      Nearly every model predicted that Okafor was a stud and APEX had my man Kay Felder at #12.

    75. chrisconley

      @57 Great analysis vid. Makes me even more sad about Knox. I’m getting over it tho. It’s not like we missed out on an obvious stud. Would have loved Zhaire + pick but Philly was totally lucky there.

      @58 Excellent site. Interestingly, the 2 models that hate Knox the most (APEX & Pelton) have underperformed the GMs for 4 of the last 5 drafts.

    76. 2FOR18, understands math

      I wanted no part of Monk last year, but if you put together a Monk highlight video you at least had something interesting to watch. But Knox was just so damn meh to watch, and his numbers are brutal too. He has a nice stroke and he’s tall and young, so I guess if you squint enough there’s reason for optimism. I’ll root for him. I have nothing against him. But it was a poor decision to draft him over Mikal or SGA.
      Mikal is better than both of them right now, but ok he’s an old ass man of almost 22! Well then take SGA who was also a freshman but freaking did everything better than Knox. His weakness is his shot and he still had much better percentages across the board.

    77. Z-man

      Monk may take a few years to pan out. He’s undersized for a 2 and not enough of a passer to be a 1. I think he has a chance to develop into a Lou Williams-type guard. But not for a while and that’s probably a hard ceiling.

      The hope with Knox is that what we saw at Kansas was an illusion, and that his potential was masked by misuse and youth. In other words, this is the extremely rare case where a workout legitimately revealed a quickly developing teenager having matured in a few month’s time.

      It’s why despite my trolling, I still hold out hope for Ntilikina (not as a PG) because there was really no reason to like him at all via statistical analysis. Despite what you know who says over and over again, he was not good in France by any measure. But now we hear that he’s still growing (although the way some people put it, he’ll be 7’3″ by the time he stops) so who knows? As a 6’7″ 0ff-the-ball wing, he’s an entirely different prospect than as a 6’5″ PG.

      So now that the draft is over, next stop: Vegas. We’ll know a lot more then. I’m actually excited about Robinson and Trier too!

    78. ess-dog

      To be fair, Monk is at least a year younger than Mitchell and with a crappy organization, but most people here were wary of Monk because of his poor defensive potential…

      So then we pick a guy with bad defensive stats.

      That being said, Knox has a good defensive reputation from high school and his defense was pretty tight during the tourney.

      I don’t agree with the pick, but I’m going to wait and see what he’s got.

    79. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      No draft models had Mitchell where he should have been, but he wasn’t a Chris Paul-type superstar out of the gate. His playoff performance against Houston was dreadful and he didn’t really come alive until April. His numbers before that were bog-standard rookie guard. On the whole, he was a serviceable NBA guard, which is a very good thing to be as a rookie.

      I would want Mitchell as a Knick over any rookie not named Ben Simmons (all else being equal), but it’s not like draft models whiffed on a guy who was ’06 Dwyane Wading all over the floor. He’s one of those guys who got lucky to land on a very good team in the Jazz. If he’s a Sun, with identical numbers, I don’t think we point to him as an example of bad draft modeling.

    80. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      This is a really interesting draft on the part of the Knicks. The more I read about Knox, the more I like him as a pick. His MSG interview suggested he’s a smart self-aware kid who knows what he has to do to succeed. Watching him and Robinson will address two questions. One, how much did playing out of position affect Knox’s stats, particularly rebounding?

      Two, how necessary is playing organized ball to improving as a young player. I’ve long thought that young players play too much youth basketball and it sometimes makes them spend less time developing skills. Now we get a guy who only worked on his game for a year. Who knows how he will look in an organized game.

    81. hoolahoop

      Now that the disappointment is starting to wear off that the knicks didn’t get one of the shiny toys drafted before knox, the pick is starting to look a lot better.
      It’s easy to throw out a name of some guy picked a few notches down after watching an 11 minute video on youtube, reading a 200 word report, and reviewing a small sampling of stats that’s not nearly as indicative as in the NBA, but if your career was on the line, you may have winded up picking Knox, too.
      Porter was too risky.
      Knox has a higher ceiling than Mikal, along with his lower floor, but that’s a gamble worth taking.
      Other guys were more of a leap of faith than Knox.

      For all we know, Knox may already be more valuable than Frank.

    82. danvt

      I guess I would have taken Porter Jr.

      I think Knox could surprise and I expect that Kentucky, like Summer League, could be an inaccurate predictor. I do believe that consistent and proper roles make a big difference. I think Frank really suffered from that last year. Like, never being on the floor with KP and not being made starter even once tanking season began, etc. So, even if Knox busts I don’t really care. He’s a 9th pick. I’d just like to see him put in the best position to succeed. If he doesn’t there’ll be another chance to get an impact player next year (plus more cap#, etc.) Let’s just get our act together, work with our young players, and get an identity as an organization.

    83. djphan

      for the folks not paying attention you might think knox was an ok gamble… because he’s 6ft 9 and of course he has a higher ceiling…..

      that’s what everyone said about guys like wiggins… barnes…. james young…. and jeff green…. maybe the 15th try is when the upside kicks in?

      it’s pretty ironic guys like battier and otto porter and trevor ariza actually perform better than all the guys with higher upside… how do ordinary guys like that manage to do that?

      yea it’s a gamble… but not the one you think you might be taking….

    84. JK47

      I’d have just gone with Mikal Bridges.

      The big selling point for Knox is his size, that he’s 6’9″ and thus he can play power forward, but he really doesn’t do power-forward like things. I think there’s a little bit too much obsession with what makes a “modern” basketball player and not enough focus on whether the player is actually good or not.

      Mikal has been an efficient scorer his entire college career, a sky-high eFG% player who also contributes on defense. Sure, he’s older and he’s more of a 2/3 than a 3/4 but he’s GOOD AT BASKETBALL. That’s like, pretty important. For those of y’all talking about Mikal’s age vs Knox’s age, I’d submit that Mikal was better as a freshman than Knox. Mikal had way better efficiency, got twice as many blocks and steals and even had the same TRB%.

      Why not just draft the guy who is already good at stuff instead of the guy who might someday get good at stuff if you use him in the right role?

    85. danvt

      I’ve learned not to go against the consensus on this board, so I have to believe that there’ll be better players than Knox picked later. That being said, I think exec’s need to find efficiencies. Like when we got Sprewell for being a borderline sociopath…

      Obviously, the calculation was that this kid has a high upside and that his situation at Kentucky wasn’t indicative of his future. He was playing two guard there. Maybe the experience helped him with his handle and will make him a better three now…

      As to NYK, they have clearly been playing people out of position for years, so, that’s one thing I’d like to see corrected. I’m pleased coach Fiz doesn’t see Lee or TH as threes for example. He wants a forward that’s a forward. Maybe the experience playing the two will benefit Knox on switches…

      Maybe we see KP play the five now for reals and not trying to summon his inner Jamal Crawford so much.

      Maybe we see Frank get to play 30 plus minutes at PG for a stretch, so we KNOW whether he can do it or not and we don’t have to talk about his potential night after night.

      Maybe we stop kidding ourselves that our veterans can keep up with other teams in the NBA.

      Looking back I’m amazed I gave coach H a pass so much of last season. He really was shitty.

      I’m all good if we just play the kids and even better if we find some one year deals for our high paid guys that are on the team beyond next season. We need to find some players who have a great chance to develop and we need a top five pick next year.

    86. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I think there’s a little bit too much obsession with what makes a “modern” basketball player and not enough focus on whether the player is actually good or not.

      This is precisely the point of the “tweener” argument going on some months back.

      A player can be 6’7″ and be DPOY as a rim defender (Draymond Green). A player can be 7’0″ and be the worst center to play in the modern NBA (Bargnani).

      It’s sort of like if you bought a car without a non-functional engine because it looked like a flashy sports car, knowing that you’d have to put a ton of work in under the hood to make it street-ready, while there were fast cars out on the market that you passed on (idk, Tesla Model 3?) because they looked like a normal commuter car.

      I think that a viable draft strategy is to flip players and picks outside of, say, the top 3 for a huge number of picks. You then select as many highly-productive college players as you can, and settle for a 50% success rate. Pick the players who are already good!

    87. Jack Bauer

      “Pick the players that are already good”
      How hard is that?

      More difficult than it seems based on past performance

    88. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      JK, like you I very much want players who are good at basketball, and I want them at least passable on both offense and defense. I also want a team that’s good at basketball as a team, which is a different thing. But there is a case to be made for someone like Knox even believing that. If you’re convinced he will become good at basketball, then he fits the Knicks timing for a good team better than Mikal does. Mikal was just traded for by a GM who may want to keep his job because he’s about as win-now a player as you can draft who is not a sure fire top pick. But that doesn’t mean he will ever be more than a role player.

    89. Grocer

      Pick the players who are already good!

      You’re success rate is gonna be way lower than 50%. NCAA stats are the best indication we’ve got of NBA success but they are still miss a lot, mostly because the range of competition varies so much, from really good to absolute shit. If you’re not controlling for strength of competition, age (because players get older while their opponents average the same), and coaching (can somebody out of Virginia run the floor? Cause Virginia doesn’t do that, ever).

      What I know best about draft picks is I’m horrible at predicting future success. I’m not convinced anyone is actually good at it.

    90. Grocer

      Also, workouts are the smallest sample size ever. Also a small sample size? An entire NCAA season. Every FO that didn’t pick Doncic when he was available is staffed by complete fucking morons.

    91. Brian Cronin

      Also, workouts are the smallest sample size ever. Also a small sample size? An entire NCAA season. Every FO that didn’t pick Doncic when he was available is staffed by complete fucking morons.

      I really can’t believe that the Hawks actually preferred Trae Young to Doncic. Man, did the Mavericks luck out.

    92. iserp

      I think I would have picked Mikal and hope for an Otto Porter-like player.

      I am a bit worried that it is said that Knox does not a have a good motor, as I think that characteristic does not usually improve. However, I trust the FO with the decision. A lot of draft projections fail, no matter if they are stat based or scouting based, specially with such young players. And I think in the last drafts, the return has been good respect to the position we were drafting (although we might have drafted better), so our FO might be doing something right, perhaps measuring players and physical traits, perhaps using workouts correctly, or perhaps by dumb luck. So for now, I will support the kid and not judge the decision for a couple of years until we see Knox developed.

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