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Saturday, May 25, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2017.05.27)

  • [NYTimes] Them Again? And Again? Warriors-Cavaliers Finals Are an N.B.A. First
    (Friday, May 26, 2017 11:11:16 AM)

    A third consecutive championship matchup, never before seen in the N.B.A., is a rarity in any professional team sport.

  • [NYTimes] Sports Briefing: Enes Kanter Scoffs at Report on Turkish Warrant
    (Saturday, May 27, 2017 4:33:47 AM)

    Kanter, a vocal critic of Turkey’s president, wrote on Twitter, “I will come on my own will anyway, to spit on your ugly, hateful faces.”

  • [SNY Knicks] Earl Monroe: Phil didn’t give Anthony right pieces
    (Friday, May 26, 2017 1:00:58 PM)

    Knicks legend Earl “The Pearl” Monroe thinks Phil Jackson did not give Carmelo Anthony the right complimentary pieces to give the star forward a chance to truly succeed.

  • [SNY Knicks] Rick Pitino sees PG Donovan Mitchell as good fit for Knicks
    (Friday, May 26, 2017 10:45:00 AM)

    Louisville head coach Rick Pitino believes point guard Donovan Mitchell would be a good fit with the Knicks.

  • [NYPost] Knicks point guard target’s New York plans put on hold
    (Friday, May 26, 2017 7:44:01 PM)

    French league point guard Frank Ntilikina is not coming to New York just yet. The 6-foot-5 Ntilikina, a Knicks target with the eighth pick in the June’s NBA draft, saved his best playoff performance for a deciding game. The 18-year-old put up seven points, two assists, five rebounds and one steal on 3-of-6 shooting in…

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    61 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.05.27)

    1. heavencent35

      For the record, I’m all in for melo to D Angelo and Deng hope we can get plus 1. Makes sense for lakers, us, and melo. Also I think deng can still be a decent starting sf.
      If we can trade Willy to a top 5 I’m also ok with that.
      Pg- rookie
      Sg-lee
      Sf- deng
      Pf- kp
      C- noah
      Plus willie or a rookie off the bench. That will mean less drama for the knicks.

    2. KnickfaninNJ

      I think you mean DiAngelo as point or two guard. Otherwise why do the trade? The line up you show is the same as the line up we would have without the trade except that Deng replaces Melo. I dont see how that’s better.

    3. Totes McGoats

      That would be a good haul..too good considering the fact that Phil has torpedoed Melo’s already diminished trade value. Here are the biggest 2 obstacles, IMO:
      1. The NTC. Even with the possibility of the Lakers drafting Ball, why would Melo waibe his NTC to a team likely to have a worst record than his current squad. Melo wants to go to a contender, and out West the Lakers ar further away than the Knicks are in the East.
      2. Why would any team give up that much for Melo? GM’s know Phil wants to move him and that Melo likely wants to leave. Melo is 32 now with tons of miles on those knees, Phil will likely get fleeced the same way Denver fleeced the team in the original Melo trade. Clarkson, Deng, and that late 1st is more likely. Still a good haul, but way too much salary to take on unless Clarkson makes a helluva leap in the coming season.

    4. bidiong

      Not to get off topic about all our various trade scenarios that will never happen…

      Is LeBron GOAT if he beats the Warriors again this year? I would say yes myself. He may already be anyway.

    5. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      He’s the GOAT up to this point in his career imo. I think he should be uncontroversially considered the greatest–full stop–if he beats GSW

    6. DS

      He’s the GOAT up to this point in his career imo. I think he should be uncontroversially considered the greatest–full stop–if he beats GSW

      If you hypothetically swapped Jordan and LeBron, I think LeBron would fare just fine against Starks, Byron Russell, and Joe Dumars.

      I’m a Kareem man myself but that would be a little like comparing a QB to a WR.

    7. lavor postell

      If you swapped Jordan and Lebron, Miami would have won the 2011 Finals because he wouldn’t have got held in check by 37 year old Kidd and 32 year old Marion.

      I don’t even think Lebron has surpassed Kareem yet, let alone Jordan.

    8. Totes McGoats

      RE: Lebron
      He’s definitely in the conversation for GOAT as a finalist, if you will. I think what we’re seeing here is exactly what Magic would have been if he were more explosive. In my opinion, if Magic was more explosive, there would be alot less talk about Jordan. That said, Jordan is still the GOAT- right now. But, given LeBron’s past failures in the championship round, he still will be unequivocally the GOAT if he leads the Cavs past GS this season. 7 straight Finals? That is bananas!! What he’s done thus far is incredible, failures included. You cannot ignore that if he wins this year.

    9. DS

      ‘Melo to Lakers isn’t absurd or anything, but:

      Why would ‘Melo uproot to play with another core of young players?

      Why would the Lakers cash in 21 year-old D’Angelo Russell for a 33 year-old ‘Melo with 2 years and over $50 million left on his contract?

    10. DS

      If you swapped Jordan and Lebron, Miami would have won the 2011 Finals because he wouldn’t have got held in check by 37 year old Kidd and 32 year old Marion.

      Agree. But would have lost the 2013 Finals because LeBron averaged 11 rebounds per game.

      Man, I hate those Miami teams.

    11. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Lebron has superior BPM and slightly inferior WS/48 both in the playoffs and regular season compared to Jordan up to this point. He did it with categorically worse teams, as well, and has the greatest playoff run ever, by any player, in 2007 (that was the year right?)

      He should also have 6 MVPs.

    12. MSA

      He’s definitely in the conversation for GOAT as a finalist, if you will. I think what we’re seeing here is exactly what Magic would have been if he were more explosive. In my opinion, if Magic was more explosive, there would be alot less talk about Jordan.

      On offense I guess you are right, but on defense Magic was kinda meh. Jordan and Lebron are (were) absolutely dominant on both sides of the floor.

    13. lavor postell

      He really doesn’t have superior advanced stats – he has more total WS in 1 less season and a superior WS/48 – and his teams weren’t categorically worse, especially not if you adjust for the reality that Jordan’s championship years came during a far more physical and defensive era of the game. Wade and Bosh and now Kyrie and Love aren’t categorically worse teams and if you’re gonna go that route his competition in the East was undeniably worse than what Jordan faced.

      Also Jordan 87/88 is a better season than Lebron’s ever put up. MVP, DPOY, scoring title and All-Star MVP in the same season. Jordan was a far better steals player and is just behind Lebron in block rate despite being a 6’6 guard to Lebron’s 6’9 superhuman. Lebron’s a better passer, but also much more turnover prone than Jordan was.

    14. Jack Bauer

      Lebron is one miracle last second Ray Allen 3 and one Draymond Green kick in the balls from being 1-6 in the Finals. Jordan was 6-0, that has to count for something. Not a fan of either one of these guys but I can’t deny both of them their greatness. Lebron is very likely going to surpass Jordan in every major statistical category that he hasn’t already. When it comes to winning time, it seems that Jordan was mentally tougher, although Lebron has improved in this area. It’s a tough call, I see the arguments for both of them, I’d have to stick with Jordan for now. It is a lot like choosing between the blonde super model and the brunette super model, both choices are pretty good.

    15. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Yeah that era was more physical but the illegal defense rules benefited Jordan immensely, more than the lack of hand checking helps Lebron imo

      It’s close for sure but I think lebrons got it

    16. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      let us never again mention “All-Star MVP” in any real discussion of player value

    17. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      “For the record, I’m all in for melo to D Angelo and Deng hope we can get plus 1. Makes sense for lakers, us, and melo. Also I think deng can still be a decent starting sf.
      If we can trade Willy to a top 5 I’m also ok with that.
      Pg- rookie
      Sg-lee
      Sf- deng
      Pf- kp
      C- noah
      Plus willie or a rookie off the bench. That will mean less drama for the knicks.”

      NO! NO! NO! NO!!!
      We’re not going with that cruddy lineup.
      We’re not trading WillyBilly.
      We’ll be great again in one or two years and not in the five or ten that you’re plan requires.
      Yes to the Melo trade btw.

    18. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      Lebron is one miracle last second Ray Allen 3 and one Draymond Green kick in the balls from being 1-6 in the Finals. Jordan was 6-0, that has to count for something.

      And Jordan isn’t lucky that he was gifted perhaps the most dominant player in NBA history for his second Finals stint? And one whose supernatural talent perfectly complemented Jordan’s scoring prowess?

      Jordan was amazing, but let’s not forget how good the Bulls were the year after he left. Take LeBron off of the 2009 Cavs and do you think they drop from a 66-win team to a 45-win team? I do.

    19. heavencent35

      My take on lbj vs MJ is that lebron has more strengths AND weaknesses. While MJ had solid killer mentality strength and less weaknesses.
      Lebron could be goat without questions but critics will point out his weaknesses.
      During MJs time it’s undebateble that he is goat. Lebron despite all the numbers and statistics critics will still have something to say about his disappearance in games, softness, and of course the traveling.

    20. Donnie Walsh

      Melo wants to go to a contender,

      I mean, there are really only two contenders, and neither of them would be improved by him, even if they wanted him and/or could afford him.

      He’s going to have to roll the dice on a younger team a little further along in the rebuild than the Knicks are if he wants to see the playoffs in the twilight of his career. That’s the best he can hope for.

    21. Accidentank 2017

      Frank isn’t really a point guard. I still like him as a player but I have my reservations in terms of his ability to initiate and control an offense. Of course he’s only 18 and there’s no way the Knicks don’t pick him, but my guy for right now is Donovan Mitchell.

      Frank Ntilikina has a long way to go in terms of his development. I like his handle and his defense, but he needs to become a better shooter and he needs to get better finishing around the rim. There’s a good chance he doesn’t start for an NBA team until his 3rd or 4th year, and then you’re talking about developing a triangle point guard until Phil leaves and the triangle goes with him. There is a lot to like about Frank, but there are a lot of reasons to pause.

    22. Accidentank 2017

      The LeBron James argument is simply this:

      Can you call a player the GOAT if he isn’t a closer? LeBron didn’t attempt a field goal in the 4th quarter in Game 3 vs Boston. You look at anybody else in the GOAT discussion and that doesn’t happen. Of course it’s not a statistical measurement and LeBron clearly deserves to be in the discussion, but that kind of stuff hurts LeBron more than it hurts anyone else.

    23. King Induction

      LeBron didn’t attempt a field goal in the 4th quarter in Game 3 vs Boston … Can you call a player the GOAT if he isn’t a closer?

      And while Kyrie won the rings last year with a shot he created and made, on the road, as time was closing in on 0:00 LeBron stood and watched.
      Compare that to Jordan’s divine game 6 of the ’88 finals, in which he had a 55.1% usg while Pippen is a shadow of himself.
      Beating GS this year is LeBron’s 0nly chance to be in the conversation, imho, in terms of biggest winner of the modern era.

    24. Accidentank 2017

      The big thing is despite the “LeBron won’t shoot in the clutch” argument, he still belongs firmly in the conversation which is really only a 3 horse race with Kareem, Jordan, and LeBron. He’s a monster.

    25. 2FOR18

      I saw both of their whole careers, and I’ll rank Jordan 1 and LeBron 2 in terms of GOAT because when it’s close like this, I value peak over career value, and I just can’t rate anyone higher than Jordan’s peak, even though LeBron continues to amaze me.
      RE: Jordan’s supporting cast vs Lebron’s, it’s a no brainer that Jordan had the edge. They won 55 games after his first retirement and pippen and Rodman are better than anyone LeBron played with, though Wade and bosh are close.

    26. Frank

      Re: this CP3 –> SA thing. This is not an original thought, but as the head of the NBPA, CP3 was one of the main drivers of the new CBA rule about over-36 players, mostly to get himself an extra $50MM or so. It would be surprising to me if he gave up the $50MM AND took a pay cut to play for a team that would have to sell off many important parts, even if Pop is the greatest and Kawhi would instantly be the best teammate he ever had.

      If anything, this is helpful to the Knicks, in that this buzz about CP3->SA might motivate the Clips to try even harder to make a deal for Melo — because they are truly screwed if CP3 decides to leave.
      They were a +14.9 per 100 poss with Paul on the court and a -5.3 per 100poss when he was off. That is an outrageous net rating.

      If I’m the Knicks and I have the choice of waiving Melo and getting nothing or trading him to the Clips for 1-2 unprotected #1’s, Austin Rivers, and 1 year of Jamal Crawford, I am DEFINITELY doing that. (of course it’s ultimately up to Melo)

    27. DS

      It’s technically possible for the Knicks and Cavs to do a swap in which:

      Cavs get ‘Melo
      We get Shump and Frye back plus Korver.

      I doubt the Cavs want to give up 3 rotation players to put themselves in a position in which they either shift LeBron to the 2 or bring Carmelo off the bench. Not sure ‘Melo wants to live Ohio either.

      But weirder things have happened. If Golden State wins this year maybe Cleveland decides to try something like this in oder to take a crack at them in 2018.

    28. DS

      They would rid themselves of a 33 year old chucker… Korver’s actually a free agent this summer anyway. Adjusted trade would involve JR, or about six Cavs making it even less likely. Maybe they’d throw in a pick in this highly hypothetical situation.

    29. english_knick

      I might take shump and Thompson in a deal for Melo. TT could be a good front court partner for KP…

    30. Jack Bauer

      Skip that trade anyway, awful. I’d rather keep Melo, once was enough for Shump and/or JR

    31. DS

      Yes, you guys would keep ‘Melo because the four teams he won’t veto are not going to give us much for him. :)

      I still think he can play, I’d just like KP and others to get the additional touches.

    32. Jack Bauer

      Good things come to those who wait, perhaps there will be a better offer than players like Shump, Frye, & Korver. Draft Picks or younger players with some chance of getting better would be the route to go.

    33. JK47

      The conundrum here is that Melo will want to go to a contender, and most contenders are run by people who are smart enough not to want the age 33 and 34 seasons of Carmelo Anthony at $30M per season.

    34. Donnie Walsh

      Cavs get ‘Melo
      We get Shump and Frye back

      I’d only do it if we can end up with Ariza, Sweentey, and Lampe too.

    35. DS

      I’d only do it if we can end up with Ariza, Sweentey, and Lampe too.

      Haha. Actually Ariza plus Lampe and Sweetney at the vet minimum wouldn’t hurt us.

    36. stratomatic

      I think James may have greater overall skills because of his passing ability and size, but in a dog fight of a series with equal teams behind them, I’d take Jordan to dig a little deeper and play better under pressure. James is not done yet though and I think he’s tougher mentally now than he used to be.

    37. DS

      I would consider any of those guys trying to make a comeback more entertaining than another season of Carmelo isolation.

    38. stratomatic

      If I’m the Knicks and I have the choice of waiving Melo and getting nothing or trading him to the Clips for 1-2 unprotected #1’s, Austin Rivers, and 1 year of Jamal Crawford, I am DEFINITELY doing that. (of course it’s ultimately up to Melo)

      I might do that deal also (definitely for more than one pick) , but I don’t think those are the options.

      I don’t think there’s much chance the Knicks wave Melo. He may not be the happiest camper, but I don’t think he’s desperate to leave or that Phil is desperate to trade him. I think it’s just the desired option for both sides for the same reason (timing of the rebuild).

      I think Phil will look for a deal that satisfies both parties, but if he can’t find one, Melo will be back.

    39. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      The cavs without lebron is same with bulls without Jordan. Lottery.

      The worst single-season team Rodman played major minutes on? 48-34. The guy’s teams simply could not lose when he was in the paint. He was on something like 9 different 50-win teams with 3 different franchises. Lottery? Not even close.

    40. Frank

      gotta agree with Jowles on this one – Jordan played much of his career with 2-3 all-time greats. Pippen for sure, and Rodman was an absolute beast. Then there was Horace Grant, easily one of the most underrated guys ever. What Lebron has been able to do with some pretty bad teammates is remarkable. Kyrie is pretty good, Love is pretty good but pretty limited, and Tristan Thompson is better than people think. But those guys can’t hold a candle to Pippen and Rodman (although the Thompson:Rodman comparison is semi-reasonable). And Lebron takes them all to the finals every year. And that’s not even talking about the previous pre-Heatles Cavs teams which were God-awful in terms of non-lebron talent.

    41. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      Thompson is an excellent rebounder and a tireless defender, but he ain’t no Rodman. There is only one Rodman.

      Also I think Rodman the person toes the line between pitiful and revolting. My affection for him is solely as a guy who had some innate gift for playing keep-away with other tall, athletic humans.

    42. stratomatic

      We can debate the overall relative merits of guys like Rodman and Pippen vs. guys like Irving and Love vs Wade and Bosh, etc.. but there’s no question James has been playing with way better scorers in recent years. He’s had some killers making it easier for him recently except in the finals when Love/Irving both went down. You need guys that can put the ball in the basket, especially under playoff pressure, with constant adjustments, and the refs letting more go defensively.

    43. Nick C.

      Of course Jordan faced vastly superior teams in the playoffs : Bird’s Celtics, he who shall not be named’s Pistons, our beloved Knicks and the Pacers would all wipe the floor with the non-LeBron teams in the Eastern Conference nowadays

    44. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Counterpoint: Golden State Warriors and the San Antonio Spurs

    45. yellowboy90

      OT: What do you guys think Minny could get for Wiggins on the open market? Could they convince Sacramento to give up the 5th pick, WCS, and a future pick?

    46. Accidentank 2017

      Two first round draft picks would grab you an Andrew Wiggins right now.

      The 2014 Spurs and 2016 Golden State Warriors are probably better than any team Michael Jordan played in the Finals with the exception of the Utah Jazz (and that’s no surefire case). The thing is Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman is the best Big 3 of all time, so it’s hard to see how anybody could have beat those Bulls in a playoff series.

    47. Nick C.

      LeBron’s teams have faced some all time teams in the finals, but the path there was considerably easier than that faced by Jordan’s teams. Be that as it may, they are unanimous 2G and SF on any all time NBA first five.

    48. Brian Cronin

      Remember when Jordan was a total loser and didn’t take the game-winning shot in the 1993 NBA Finals and the 1997 NBA Finals?

      In other words, knocking a dude for someone else taking a game-winning shot is silly. That’s not to say that Lebron is better than Jordan, as I’d probably still take Jordan (it’s crazy close), but “not enough will to win” or whatever is not a fair knock on Lebron.

    49. Brian Cronin

      Hilariously, the dominance of the Cavs and Warriors is probably going to hurt the NBA salary cap. It might not even hit $100 million due to the reduced playoff receipts, since if either team sweeps, it will be the fewest amount of games ever played in an NBA Playoffs since the current format began in 2003. Even if the series goes to 7 games, it will be tied for the second-fewest games ever played.

    50. geehee

      I’d like to see the Knicks draft Frank Mason III. Too many PG’s?

      I’d play him over Ron Baker all day long.

    51. geehee

      But Josh Hart is probably the better fit. Im okay with that too. Seems like a do-it-al guard.

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