Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, November 18, 2019

2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Kings

The Knicks host the disappointing Kings, who are just as dysfunctional as the Knicks! Heck, Luke Walton might be the only NBA coach who isn’t as good at Xs and Os as David Fizdale!

The Knicks have the big advantage, though, in stupid lineup decisions, as Bobby Portis is starting over Mitch tonight. Yikes.

One of these teams will get their second win tonight. Let’s hope that it is the Knicks!

Let’s go, Knicks!

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214 comments on “2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Kings

  1. rama picked up his option

    No, but we weren’t in a position to draft him because of the usual run of meaningless wins, tho…

    As for Mitch not starting, I actually feel for Fiz: he has to start Randle. Mitch and Randle aren’t great together (though there are some pnr synergies they could be making more of). Portis can (occassionally) shoot from outside. So given those facts, starting Portis isn’t batshit crazy….

    …except that Mitch is very good already, providing serious value on offense and defense, and could be a cornerstone of the team for years to come. The result of needing to start Randle, then, is suboptimal, even if it is pretty much impossible not to start him.

  2. dtrickey

    Man the sheen wore off Luke Walton as a coach real quick after his stint as stand in for Kerr.

    Portis for Mitch in the starting lineup seems odd, but given the rotation decisions so far this year probably not unexpected. Seems like it is a decision based on getting Randle going early. Not sure Mitch needs to come out for that, but as long as he gets minutes then that is all that matters. If the starting 5 is as unimportant to Fiz as he says, then Mitch needs to be getting more minutes in the crunch if he is not starting.

  3. djphan

    i was sensing that mitch would be pulled based on how randle was looking…. this is pretty reactionary stuff considering we’re drastically short in the ball handling dept….

    as long as mitch gets minutes i’m fine with it… but what’s more worrying is that fiz doesn’t realize who his best players are….

  4. KnickfaninNJ

    We should not allow the presence of Frank Ntilikina to dictate any future roster decisions, whether it’s in free agency, the draft, the UDFA process, etc.

    I don’t think this is a worry at all. We seem be doing “the process”. No one good is likely to sign here until we get enough good draft picks to be good without big name free agents. That should give Frank many years of development.

  5. Hubert

    This roster puzzle is admittedly difficult to solve, but Bobby Portis is not part of the solution. It’s going to be pretty amusing watching an idiot like Fiz try to stumble onto the right answer.

    Here’s a some hints for him:

    1. Pretend Bobby Portis isn’t on the roster

    2. Use Barrett as a forward so you can get more shooting on the court.

    3. Randle can play 5. Morris can play 4.

  6. geo

    picked up league pass…who knows how many more games young mister frank will start in his life…

    that, and because: i’m only happy when it rains

  7. djphan

    there are ppl who think frank should be starting over everyone else even at full health….

    that is stupid.

  8. KnickfaninNJ

    Picking Portis tonight seems to be a continuation of Fiz looking for a better offense. Mitch didn’t have a great game against Boston, and even if Portis is worse than Mitch, there is something to be said for having a better fit with Randle.

  9. GianaDani

    in a year or two, when Mitch says he has no confidence in this leadership and wants out, – who is going to be shocked.

    Mitch was here first; why sign RANDLE?

  10. KnickfaninNJ

    They’re about to find out how shitty Randle and Portis are together

    I agree. And, in fact, Portis just forced up a terrible shot against a double team.

  11. JK47

    I like how they let Frank dribble the ball across half court before he hands it off to whatever power forward happens to be standing near him. Probably makes him feel all point guardish

  12. d-mar

    Fiz runs a very complex offense- give the ball to Morris or Randle and stand around.

    I’m surprised the players can grasp it.

  13. KnickfaninNJ

    Fiz runs a very complex offense- give the ball to Morris or Randle and stand around.

    Unless Portis breaks the offense by taking an immediate long range two like he just did.

  14. E

    It’s a stupid, hand-off, weave-y offense that went out of style with Hoosiers. They initiate with a 4 or a 5 30 feet away practically every possession.

  15. GianaDani

    Here is an idea: Start Mitch and run plays for him; at least 4-5 different pick and rolls with him in each half.

    Bench all veterans and limit them to 20 minutes; let the kids ball.

  16. JK47

    Well I for one am not very psyched to see Bobby Portis and Wayne Ellington trying to scratch out marginal wins

  17. E

    Nice eat what you kill move by RJ who decided against handing off to Julius Randle 30 feet away from the basket to initiate the offense with 16 seconds on the shot clock.

  18. Early Bird

    Knicks TO’s are significantly higher (small sample warning) when Mitch and Randle play together. In that sense staggering those two makes sense. In view of the larger picture, it makes no sense. At least start Ellington and never, ever play Portis.

  19. ptmilo

    if we’re going to auto switch for no reason we should start mitch on fox and randle on hield so they end up on the right guy

  20. Early Bird

    mitch and randle are playing against starters… without a pg…

    Yes, but they play against every lineup without pgs. Also, they play with 3 other players that can’t shoot. I definitely don’t think benching Mitch was the answer, however, too much clogging the lane is part of the problem I think. Again, there were better answers than Portis.

  21. E

    Julius Randle just isn’t any good, that’s the problem. Big playing for contract hollow numbers red flag ignored by FO.

  22. Early Bird

    I’m just going to blame all the free throw woes on Keith Smart in addition to DSJr. broken shot. Please hire a different shooting coach.

  23. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

    Can’t wait for Fiz and the FO to be fired by the end of the season. But then we have to worry about who comes next!

  24. vincoug

    I wonder if our offense would be better if we had an offensive system or even ran offensive plays?

  25. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    Not having Payton around is an obvious problem because we don’t have enough playmaking with Frank and Barrett together. But without Frank or with Barrett and Frank off at the same time it’s comical watching the offense and the defense is worse with some of the substitutions. This may be one of the most poorly constructed teams of all time.

  26. Name is Bron - James Bron

    There’s been talk of NYK pursuing RFA Bogdanovic this summer since Kings won’t match. I don’t want him.

  27. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    All the switching makes sense in a theoretical sense, but you have to have multiple players on the court that can all switch effectively to multiple positions or you are creating too many mismatches either inside or outside.

  28. JK47

    This team should have signed Jeremy Lin to be the third PG and just moved Frank to SG/defensive specialist. Or if not Lin, some other reasonably competent cheap veteran PG. Those guys can be had.

    We’re playing a “four forwards and Wayne Ellington” lineup fer cryin’ out loud

  29. KnickfaninNJ

    I don’t think it’s just the roster. Clyde is right, they have no confidence, and I put that on Fizdale. You have one bad game and suddenly you’re not starting or not getting minutes at all. That’s got to affect at least some of the players.

  30. Nick C.

    The five minutes of talk and watching men watching tv is more entertaining than the actual product the Knicks are putting out there or ar least not less

  31. Early Bird

    This team should have signed Jeremy Lin to be the third PG and just moved Frank to SG/defensive specialist. Or if not Lin, some other reasonably competent cheap veteran PG. Those guys can be had.

    I did legitimately think Lin may end up being better than any of the Knicks pgs.

    We’re playing a “four forwards and Wayne Ellington” lineup fer cryin’ out loud

    Also, if there was anytime to use the triangle, it’s on this team. It won’t work, but it’s the right time to try it. At the very least we’ll have a coherent offense.

  32. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    I’m not sure Popovich could figure out how to win with this team despite the fact that on an individual basis there are some pretty good players on this team. Every lineup is unbalanced and sucks.

  33. thenoblefacehumper

    It’s definitely not ideal when you can say “this team is such a mess without Elfrid Payton” and be indisputably correct

  34. Name is Bron - James Bron

    Knicks have a remarkable record of making players worse year-to-year: Frank, DSJ, Mitch, Randle.

  35. JK47

    You gotta admit, Frank knows how to disrupt a pick and roll. He is legitimately very good at that. When he’s screened off he fights his way back into the play and gets a hand in there, does this with consistency.

    Just move him to the wing! Stop pretending he’s a point guard. Maybe they’ll figure that out at some point.

  36. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    “It’s definitely not ideal when you can say “this team is such a mess without Elfrid Payton” and be indisputably correct”

    I’m at the point where the pain of watching is getting so bad I have to consider it comedy and just laugh.

  37. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    Just move him to the wing! Stop pretending he’s a point guard. Maybe they’ll figure that out at some point.

    And move Barrett to SF.

    The very big lineup is horrible.

    The problem is that then you have the spacing issue anyway because we don’t have a PG that can shoot. If Payton or DSJr could shoot we could actually start playing a nice game.

  38. JK47

    I’m at the point where the pain of watching is getting so bad I have to consider it comedy and just laugh.

    I’ve been here a long time.

    I’ve said it before: the only way to appreciate the Knicks is as farce. This is Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau mashed up with a Season 1, Ropers-era episode of Three’s Company

  39. TheClashFan

    @83

    mashed up with a Season 1, Ropers-era episode of Three’s Company

    Yes, but who is our Suzanne Somers?

  40. dtrickey

    Fucking hell, Miami are going to drop 70+ points on Houston in a half. Good to see Pringles has been working on his defensive schemes.

    That said, given we are getting a hiding by the Kings on our home floor, it is probably a glasshouses situation for us.

  41. bobneptune

    Trier’s defense is “spectacular”…..

    We should get an Iggy sighting soon…. at least he has confidence in his game.

  42. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    Knicks shoot free throws at the same percentage our defense allows the other team to hit 3s.

  43. bobneptune

    As much of a dick as KP was it is difficult to argue with his desire to get out of this shit show…

  44. d-mar

    You know you watch the Bulls the other night, they suck like we do but they were playing really hard D. That’s the least a coach should be able to get out of a team. We don’t even try on defense

  45. KnickfaninNJ

    Man, if we hadn’t screwed up this game so badly we might have been able to trade Fizdale for Walton. Now the Kings are looking so good we might have to throw in a second round pick.

  46. Grocer

    We should get an Iggy sighting soon…. at least he has confidence in his game.

    That’d be nice, looking forward to it.

    Kind of amazing this wasn’t the worst half in basketball tonight.

  47. Knew Your Nicks

    I don’t believe we’re so bad.
    Looks like players are ‘sabotaging’ Fiz by not giving their 100%.
    Which is a very promising thing if it’s really happening !!!

  48. ptmilo

    She fell asleep and drooled all over the floor. Sympathy and Understanding.

    lol

    mitch played 6 minutes.

  49. Name is Bron - James Bron

    I don’t think it’s effort. Knox, Trier, Portis, and Ellington are just terrible defenders. Their defense is the equivalent of Frank’s offense.

  50. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    As much of a dick as KP was it is difficult to argue with his desire to get out of this shit show…

    Anyone could see that they were clueless by some of the players they brought in trying to get bettter even after Mills overpaid Hardaway and Baker. He would have wasted his entire youth here and he knew it.

  51. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Adam Gase and it’s not even close. He has no business coaching another game.

    ——-

    And the Knicks (ownership and front office) don’t deserve a fanbase like this one.

  52. The Infamous Cdiggy

    So I finally got the chance to sit and watch a half of my beloved Knicks and they lay this egg. I guess I should be happy my fiancee needed to go to Sam’s Club before it closes.

  53. thenoblefacehumper

    If Mitch is done for the game I don’t think there’s any excuse for me not to switch to Spurs/Lakers

  54. Grocer

    Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau was Oscar material compared to this shit show.

    This is deeply unfair to Peter Sellers. The Washington Generals are a more apt comparison.

  55. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    I don’t think it’s effort. Knox, Trier, Portis, and Ellington are just terrible defenders. Their defense is the equivalent of Frank’s offense.

    And if you aren’t at least a significant plus on the other side you shouldn’t be on the court. (Not to mention that Randle is not exactly a defender either)

    When you build a team the first questions you should ask are can he defend and can he play well within a team concept with a high basketball IQ. After that you start fitting offensive pieces together and looking for star scorers. If you are lucky and get the star scorers first, then you go the other way, but you need almost everyone to play defense and play intelligently.

  56. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    I don’t think Steve Mills and Scott Perry can save their jobs after this season. They failed to land any big ticket free agents, spent $70M in cap space on four power forwards, Wayne Ellington, and Elfrid Payton, and proceeded to build a team that’s going to be playing for lottery positioning this Spring. This team is a disaster with a future, and we need a front office that won’t ruin that future. Go get somebody from the Nuggets’ front office or offer Masai Ujiri majority ownership to run the team. Fire Fizdale and hire Dave Joerger. These guys are simply not fit for the job. We have no good point guards and Bobby Portis is making $15M a year to be a back up center (and if he starts it’s because our elite athlete at center hasn’t been taught how to play defense without fouling).

  57. JK47

    This is why we couldn’t stash bad contracts in exchange for draft picks? So Bobby Portis and Wayne Ellington could lead us to some sort of scrappy respectability?

    Good plan guys

  58. geo

    Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau was Oscar material 

    agreed…

    peter sellers as Chance was just simply solid, professional work…

  59. KnickfaninNJ

    They looked competent against Boston. Something happened between them and now. Maybe it was switching Portis into the starting lineup, but maybe something else too.

  60. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    If Mitch is done for the game I don’t think there’s any excuse for me not to switch to Spurs/Lakers

    The player on the team with far and away the most potential on both sides is also absolutely clueless about how to play basketball on either side and can’t do anything but dunk at this stage. It’s sad.

  61. geo

    what i like about these kind of games, great time for doing chores, getting ready to take out the trash now…do we wanna throw fiz in there with it…

  62. Early Bird

    For anyone still watching, Frank just let a 6’11” PF/C-type drive by him on the worlds slowest dribble.

  63. BigBlueAL

    Better comparison, the Knicks are Steve Martin as Inspector Clouseau compared to Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau.

  64. Early Bird

    Better comparison, the Knicks are Steve Martin as Inspector Clouseau compared to Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau.

    This.

  65. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    @110

    You are 100% correct but they already destroyed (or delayed) some of that future with bad moves that drove KP away or didn’t maximize the return on the trade because there was a price to move Hardaway. They also drafted Knox instead of a potentially solid defensive role player that can hits 3s like Bridges instead.

  66. Early Bird

    RJ to Mitch dunk is always nice to see. It’s almost like putting in our best player helps our team. Hmmm…

  67. Grocer

    Better comparison, the Knicks are Steve Martin as Inspector Clouseau compared to Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau.

    Very fair.

  68. BigBlueAL

    It’s nights like this where I would love to know what Dolan is really thinking about this team right now.

  69. Early Bird

    What’s the record for consecutive years a rookie has led an NBA team in minutes and FGA? Because the Knicks are going to be at 2 after this year.

  70. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    Pat Riley had almost no draft picks and made several terrible contract decisions over a couple of years, but he’s already recovered to a pretty nice Heat team with just a handful of intelligent moves. That’s the difference between competence and the Knicks. They ALL make occasional mistakes with bad contracts or get some bad luck, but the ones that actually understand how to play basketball and build coherent teams can recover quickly despite mistakes. The Heat have a nice mix of youth and veterans and just need another piece or two a be top team in the East and go from there.

  71. vincoug

    It’s just mind-boggling that this front office, in their 2nd year, messed up this past summer in the same exact manner that Phil Jackson in his 2nd year. Paying $70M for this is insane.

  72. Early Bird

    It’s just mind-boggling that this front office, in their 2nd year, messed up this past summer in the same exact manner that Phil Jackson in his 2nd year. Paying $70M for this is insane.

    But unlike Phil we won’t have to stretch any of the players since we only have them this year.

  73. JK47

    Better comparison, the Knicks are Steve Martin as Inspector Clouseau compared to Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau.

    What I mean is that the Knicks are a farce of the highest order. They’re a QUALITY farce. You know you’re getting ludicrously impossible buffoonery at all times. They’re more Peter Sellers.

    If you’re into shit going wrong in absurd ways, the Knicks are for you.

  74. d-mar

    Well, at least Morris is improving his trade value

    Portis too, there are plenty of teams that will take him off our hands if we give them multiple picks

  75. Owen

    Mitch is still Mitch at least

    He bricked that righty layup but I continue to be impressed by RJ’s ability to get to the basket

    Great block by Mitch

  76. Owen

    Ooh Trier….

    Sick blcok by Fox

    Also, Mitch turned on the jets getting back on defense. It’s incredible how fast he is.

  77. geo

    now you got it big blue…I still remember the first time I saw dr. strangelove, I was in my teens – I had no idea what the heck was going on (thought it was gonna be like seven days in may – not) other than it was crazy and funny…

    that shit sellers did with kwouk though was magic to me…

  78. Hubert

    I’m beginning to see a silver lining:

    This season is going to be so bad that no one can survive it. (I mean seriously, there are 5 shooting guards and 5 power forwards on this team, and somehow the only PG and only C can’t get PT?).

    And at the end of this season, Ujiri will have just one year left on his deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dolan fires these guys and pays the piper to get a real GM in here.

  79. Owen

    And at the end of this season, Ujiri will have just one year left on his deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dolan fires these guys and pays the piper to get a real GM in here.

    This is Dolan’s only move at some point. I hope.

  80. vincoug

    But unlike Phil we won’t have to stretch any of the players since we only have them this year.

    Give them another offseason or two. We’re still in the Lopez/Afflalo/Williams stage. Signing an obviously washed up big who we end up stretching and trading for an obviously washed up PG is the next phase.

  81. Early Bird

    Trade Mook. Play Iggy.

    I actually think Mook is our best PF. We should dump Portis, and at this point Randle. Frank/RJ/Iggy/Morris/Mitch is a team I would watch.

  82. E

    Dolan likes Ujiri and thinks of him as a star, so it’s very possible. I can’t see Ujiri signing on if Mills is still around to spy, though.

  83. Early Bird

    Against all odds, the optimists appear to have been wrong about the Knicks.

    To be fair, the pessimists also appear to be wrong. What was the lowest guess on the win total prediction thread? That’s gonna be about 10 wins too many.

  84. JK47

    Meanwhile over in the NFL my nemesis Jon Gruden is doing the “how’s it goink” football version and actually making it sort of work. The Raiders have absolutely bupkis at the edge rusher position, their offense is built around the run, they don’t have a single competent wide receiver on the roster and somehow they are 4-4 and in the playoff hunt.

  85. d-mar

    I really can’t believe Randle is this bad, and I think it’s because he’s trying to do too much, including initiating the offense. Last year he had Jrue Holiday running the show and he put up really solid numbers. I doubt the Pelicans coach ran his offense through Randle.

    Oh, and I fucking hate Bobby Portis.

  86. thenoblefacehumper

    This offseason did have big “we’re too stupid to do anything smart so we’re just gonna try not to fuck it up too bad for the next guy” vibes. So there’s that.

  87. djphan

    the julius randle conundrum is reflective of the coaching gap between gentry and fizdale…

    but i also think we should wait until we get payton back because there’s all sorts of players being asked to do too much….

  88. Early Bird

    the julius randle conundrum is reflective of the coaching gap between gentry and fizdale…

    but i also think we should wait until we get payton back because there’s all sorts of players being asked to do too much….

    That’s fair. Also, Kadeem Allen can’t get here soon enough.

  89. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    I really wish Wally would stop beating up on Randle. Randle is being Randle. He’s an efficient scorer around the basket that can rebound and make some plays. He’s not a star caliber offensive player that can score in a lot ways from all over the floor. His problem is that the team has no shooting, the fit is bad, and he’s having a tough time getting easy shots inside as the main option. He’s constantly running into 2-3 defenders around the basket or at least being forced to take tougher shots than he’s used to as the 3rd option or coming off the bench. He’s fine as a player, but it’s not going to be easy to figure out a way to get him going given the players we have and the lineups we are putting out there. This is an example of why the box score is bullcrap. It doesn’t describe the why and how of the stats or the actual skills the players has. Randle is a nice piece, but he’s a 3rd option on a team with a lot of space. Then he’ll put up numbers inside and be very valuable.

  90. Unreason

    @171 Not that it was based on any deep understanding of anything, but if it turns out to be close, ya know: Even a broken clock….

  91. thenoblefacehumper

    Mike Vorkunov
    @MikeVorkunov
    16m
    RJ Barrett played 41 min in Knicks 113-92 loss after entering weekend leading NBA in minutes.

    “He’s got the day off tomorrow,” David Fizdale said. “We gotta get off this load management crap. Latrell Sprewell averaged 42 minutes for a season. This kid’s 19 years old. Drop it.”

    I laughed out loud at this because Fizdale has obviously been scouring basketball reference for justifications of this insane thing he’s doing.

  92. Name is Bron - James Bron

    I worry more about Mitch playing 40 mpg than RJ. Mitch needs to build up strength and stamina or his ankles could be a real problem. His fouling might be a blessing in disguise, a speed bump preventing Fiz from riding him like Secretariat.

  93. djphan

    he does sort of have a point with that…. lebron avg’ed over 40 for many years too…

    this isn’t like baseball with pitch counts…. but the whole idea with load management is playing your players the minutes they can handle…. if they can’t handle it give them a rest….

    it does seem like rj is a sturdy guy so i’m not all that concerned with it….

  94. Early Bird

    Yes, but freak accidents do happen. And there’s nothing to be gained playing RJ 41 minutes in a blow out loss.

  95. djphan

    i wouldn’t want him playing in that situation either… but out of all the things to question that is very low….. he did come out eventually but i mean he probably played 2-4 minutes too much and to me that’s not that big a deal…

  96. thenoblefacehumper

    Yeah I don’t consider it a big deal either. Low on the list for sure. I just found it funny that Fizdale had his justification ready to go.

  97. Z-man

    RJ seems to play a type of game that isn’t hard on the joints…stays low to the ground most of the time and uses his body well to stay on balance. I’m not too worried about his minutes. I’m far more worried about his efficiency.

  98. JK47

    djphan, you have any favorites in the 2020 draft? Now’s the time to start looking forward to that.

    I know we haven’t even started the NCAA season but I’m wondering if there’s anybody in particular you have your eye on.

  99. thenoblefacehumper

    I second the request to djphan, or anyone else with some insight, to give us something to look forward to.

  100. djphan

    it’s too early… i don’t pay attention to hs besides the eybl stuff… i do think cole anthony might be a bit overrated…. he’s old for his class… nico mannion looks to be underrated…. jaden mcdaniels looks very interesting… and lamelo might be a taller lonzo in mostly bad ways…

    i don’t think it’s a great class…. but you just never know at this point until the games start….

  101. BigBlueAL

    Tuesday night ESPN has Duke vs Kansas and Kentucky vs Michigan State, the top 4 teams in the preseason polls so might be worth checking out even though not sure there are Top 5 prospects on either team.

  102. vincoug

    Some of the guys with bigger hype right now are RJ Hampton, Cole Anthony, and LaMelo Ball. I’ve no opinion on any of these guys yet but they are all supposed to be PG/lead guards.

  103. geo

    Guess who’s in first place in the Tankathon standings?

    WE’RE NUMBER ONE!!!

    maybe with a little number two mixed in there too…

  104. dtrickey

    Some of the guys with bigger hype right now are RJ Hampton, Cole Anthony, and LaMelo Ball. I’ve no opinion on any of these guys yet but they are all supposed to be PG/lead guards.

    RJ Hampton is putting together a nice body of work for New Zealand in the Australian NBL at the moment. Got off to a bit of a slow start, but has gradually picked up. Playing in a professional day to day environment is going to hold him in good stead. Has been scoring pretty efficiently so far, but would like to see him up his assist numbers. Saw him play live about a fortnight ago here in Melbourne and he looks really smooth on the court and can score in bunches.

  105. Donnie Walsh

    I just found it funny that Fizdale had his justification ready to go.

    What he should have said was Cuttino Mobley once averaged 42 minutes per game and lived to tell about it.

  106. djphan

    the thing with the australian league is that it’s typically where hyped prospects goto hide to protect their draft stock instead of getting exposed elsewhere… hampton had a preseason game against pro’s and he didn’t exactly impress….

    generally the prospects who go overseas have something to hide .. the track record on these guys is pretty bad so unless they are blowing ppl away i wouldn’t take them too seriously….

  107. TheOakmanCometh

    “He’s got the day off tomorrow,” David Fizdale said. “We gotta get off this load management crap. Latrell Sprewell averaged 42 minutes for a season. This kid’s 19 years old. Drop it.”

    Hell, then why stop at 41 minutes? Play RJ all 48 minutes every game. He’s 19! 19 years olds have indestructible bodies! Just ask Marvin Bagley. Or Wendell Carter. Or Zion Williamson. Or Fultz. Or Lonzo. Or DSJ. Or Jon Isaac. Or Ben Simmons.

  108. dtrickey

    @190

    I think that is true to an extent. So far the only case studies the league has are Terrance Ferguson at OKC and Brian Bowen who is on a 2 way contract with Indiana, so you are probably right re: hiding prospects.

    However, given draftees are looking for alternative routes to the NBA, I think you will start to find better prospects find their way to professional leagues around the world. Both Ball and Hampton are still projected to go top 10 and their stock doesn’t seem to be dropping after the first month of the season. If both get drafted in the lottery, I think the narrative around bypassing the NCAA and playing professionally overseas changes. Both have also taken their lumps playing against grown men and pros so far, and are producing at a decent rate (RJ and Ball both top 5 in the league in steals, Ball currently 2nd in APG, both scoring in about the low-teens with RJ being far more efficient).

    Australia have specifically set up a program allowing teams to effectively sign NBA draft prospects out of high school without them counting towards an import roster spot and only a portion of their salary going towards the cap. So these kids are getting put front and centre promoting the league. Plus, with the league making it easier for viewers outside of Australia (e.g. Twitch streams and Facebook TV) to watch games and with the increase of scouts coming over here, I don’t think it is a case anymore of guys coming over to improve their draft stock under the cover of darkness.

  109. djphan

    it’s not just those guys but you also had dante exum and thon maker….. then you have others who went to other pro leagues… like brandon jennings… mudiay…. or just not playing altogether like bazley….

    these guys including ferguson continue to get drafted in the first round…. so i imagine there will be plenty of players who will keep trying it until gm’s wise up about it… but until someone truly breaks out… i view it as a major negative….

  110. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I see nothing wrong with RJ playing a ton of minutes if his sleep, food and recovery regimens are dialed in. Anything less than 8 a night and I’d consider it a significant failure on the part of their staff. 9 plus naps would be ideal.

  111. NahNahNahWeAreGoingTheOtherWay

    I just got a terrible feeling that we are going to trade for Westbrook. The only solution that makes sense to Dolan when shit is going bad is to bring in a ‘star’.

  112. bobneptune

    It would almost be worth trading for Chris Paul because he wouldn’t tolerate DizFail’s ineptness for 3 seconds……

  113. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

    Rooting for Fiz has given me a headache. How hard is it to stick with the lineup from the previous 2 games and let them figure it out? Why would Portis need to start against a team with Fox at PG? You’re just asking for a layup line. Portis isn’t makin shots either, so it couldn’t possibly have been about “spacing”. These young guys need a routine, and Fiz is screwing with any developmental momentum the team has been building.

    I just can’t.

    I’m one confounding decision away from carrying a “Fire Fizdale” sign everywhere I go…and I live in Maryland lol

  114. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

    Maybe it’s time to get quicker on defense and start Barrett at the 3 and start Trier at the 2. Right now it makes more sense to move Randle to the bench to help him find his way in the new role, but that’s a very bad look, so Mook is gonna hafta lead that 2nd unit with Knox and Portis

  115. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

    Now that I think about it, if Fiz is gonna get fired- he might as well go out starting Ntilikina/Barrett/Knox/Randle/MitchRob. That lineup can’t possibly be slower than last night or starting Randle & Mook at forward. We need to see what we have, and maybe when RSJ is back, he’s actually healthy and can add a different dynamic to the starting lineup. I am here for DSJ and Ntilikina getting all the PG minutes this season

  116. Hubert

    The only way I see you can solve this problem is by going small and rotating Morris, Randle, and Mitch at the 4 and 5. The Morris/Randle combos will be terrible defensively, but it’s not like Bobby Portis adds any rim protection out there.

  117. Hubert

    Frank and Barrett looked ok together in Boston. They even got a nice write-up by Hahn. Seemed like Frank would finally get some backing from the organization. Then Fiz threw the towel in on him after 2 fouls to for a 4 PF lineup with no PG.

    Who wants to bet Fragile Frank looks terrible in our next game?

  118. bobneptune

    The roster construction is sooooo bad on this team.

    There is one legit center (mitch) who should get as many minutes as he can handle. There are 5 power forwards and 4 of therm “know” they deserve minutes (portis , Randle, Knox, Morris). There are 2 small forwards Iggy (who still has peach fuzz on his ass) and Barrett who is somehow playing BOTH back court positions???

    I am happy to keep Gibson as a back up 4/5 and put Randle/Portis/Morris on the block and hope to get a first round draft pick from some contender for Randle and Morris (perfectly reasonable) and whatever for Portis if anything is available. If nothing is available he can back up 4/5 this year.

    Play Mitch @5, and Barrett @3 and Knox @4 34 minutes a game with Frank/Dotson splitting @2 and Payton and DSJr splitting @1.

    It looks as we have 2 sure long term cogs and let the chips fall where they make with the others and see who can play and who cannot. Take your 4 #1’s (ours very high) into next year’s draft and try to draft well and build at team. Get someone in here who can actually coach.

    The only great team ever for the Knicks (the late 60’s -70’s team was built over 4-5 drafts…. then key trades were made).

  119. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    I’m sure someone has studied the impact of playing a lot of minutes on injuries, productivity over the course of the season, length of career etc.. I don’t trust most of the statisticians to control for all the variables and actually get the right answer because each player is different, but I think it was the Spurs that more or less started the load management trend because they were focused on peaking for the playoffs and extending careers. I sort of trust them. I’m not so sure the experience gain from playing Barrett an extra 5-6 minutes in a blowout loss is enough to offset any downsides that might exist. I’d way rather he was in the gym shooting extra FTs in practice with that energy.

  120. Brian Cronin Post author

    What he should have said was Cuttino Mobley once averaged 42 minutes per game and lived to tell about it.

    Well done. That was an obscure ass joke.

  121. Brian Cronin Post author

    Play Mitch @5, and Barrett @3 and Knox @4 34 minutes a game with Frank/Dotson splitting @2 and Payton and DSJr splitting @1.

    Just reflect on how insane it is that while the entire NBA is going small, the Knicks use a lottery pick to draft a really good point forward (a year after using a lottery pick to draft a guy whose best position is probably a small ball 4) and then pretty much force him into the backcourt by signing two power forwards who need to play and one power forward/backup center who needs to play, plus another power forward/center just for the heck of it. It’s maddening. It’s absolutely maddening.

  122. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    @206

    I pretty much agree with all of that.

    I’ve been a Randle fan for a long time and was dying to pair him with KP (who incidentally looked much better again last night). I also love Mitch long term. But I warned before the season that Mitch/Randle might not be ideal and without having good spacing anywhere else, it has been even worse than I feared. I don’t see this an easy fix. We need shooters, but most of our shooters either don’t fit or are bad in other ways. The team construction is terrible even though we have some pretty good individual pieces.

    I would give Dotson a shot at some point. Maybe he’s not 100%, but when he is he can knock down open 3s and he can also defend. I just have no idea how to put a coherent set of 5 players on the court at the same time.

    We are going to have to make some trades. That’s scary. lol

  123. Owen

    It’s maddening. It’s absolutely maddening.

    We can’t lose Cronin people. I have seen what his jinxes can do when he is in a good mood. Things could get super ugly if he goes rogue.

  124. Stratomatic: Frequently wrong, but never in doubt

    @209

    It’s all monumentally insane.

    That’s why I am always complaining about these guys.

    ALL managements occasionally give out a bad contract or make a draft error. You want to at least see signs that they are trying to find players that play both sides of the ball well or that are great role players while they are searching for the two superstar scorers you’ll need to contend. Then you want to see that they can fit pieces together so the players compliment each other and make the TEAM better than the individuals. Our management has tended to overvalue scoring relative to defense and can’t even fit the offensive side together properly, let alone both sides.

    In the old days D’Antoni overvalued offense, but he could put 5 mediocre players on the court and the offense would be pretty good because it was all coherent. Same thing with Tibs and defense.

    If you know what you are doing you can make a team better than the individuals. If you actually have good two way players then you can really play some ball. But you have to know what you are doing.

  125. KnickfaninNJ

    That was such a depressing game. Even Clyde was calling out the offense for standing around.

  126. JK47

    This team is crummy in the exact ways I expected.

    The guard play is execrable, it’s a low eFG% team because there are no easy buckets, and the offensive rebounding doesn’t offset all of that enough. End result: 29th in offensive rating, 29th in eFG%.

    The defense is merely bad and not horrible but we also haven’t faced many top offensive teams yet. Yesterday against a struggling Kings team the defense was nonexistent early and then the game got out of hand.

    Bad team, bad concept of a team, should have just stuck with a full youth movement and tried to take on bad contracts for assets as anyone with a brain could have seen coming from ten miles away.

    Fire everybody.

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