2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks @ Cavaliers

It seems sort of inevitable that they go on a win streak now, right?

If “Let’s go” means “please trade away Marcus Morris,” then let’s go, Knicks!

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186 thoughts to “2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks @ Cavaliers”

  1. If Metallica were DieHard Knicks fans and they were releasing their debut Album during this week i think it would have been entitled:
    “Trade ’em all”

  2. Repost from previous thread

    If you make choices based on most likely outcome or average case outcome, you end up with a 40-45 win team. You have to get lucky to be more than that. The part you get to control is how many chances to get lucky you give yourself… how many high volatility assets you get.

    The value of a player isn’t really his production. It’s how much you under or overpay him.

    I agree that the more lottery tickets (draft picks) you have the better chance you give yourself of striking gold, but there’s still a mathematical expectation to compare.

    Let’s say we get the #8 pick, but we absolutely love a player a few slots higher. I’d be comfortable giving up Dallas’s picks to get that player we love.

    Even better is an unhappy all-star that wants out. Then he’s already proven. Yes, 2 extra lottery tickets would help you, but they are still not great lottery tickets.

    On the 2nd point, that’s also true. But you could have 15 underpaid role payers and not be seriously good because none of them are all star caliber players and only 5 can play at a time. You need those 2-3 legitimate all star caliber players.

    Russell is a pretty good offensive player, but he’s not so good you can overlook his clear defensive deficiencies. Overall, IMO he’s not a max player and IMO not even really an all star caliber player.

  3. well, at least we’re not as bad as those cleveland cavaliers…

    wait, what – we actually are as bad as the cleveland cavaliers…well that sucks…

  4. Russell is not a massive surplus value player on that minimax deal. But he would have been a smart signing for us last offseason, way smarter than burning the salary cap space on the useless 1+1 players.

    The question shouldn’t have been, “Is Russell worth a max contract,” the question should have been “what is the best way to use this cap space.” It didn’t take a ton of foresight to see that Russell would still have a trade market near the deadline, and that you would be able to get real life assets for him if you felt like trading him, even with him on that minimax contract.

    It was a chance to acquire something of value and maybe flip it for something else of value. Instead we did absolutely nothing with all that cap space.

  5. interesting pre-game locker room dynamic this evening…

    i’m sure this week most players are tuned in to the outside world a little more than normal due to the upcoming trade deadline…

    in cleveland’s locker room the feeling must be – nobody else in the league wants any of us, and in the knicks locker room, except for marcus morris, no one from our own front office really wants anything to do with us…

    i would guess we’ll see very little if any frank again this evening…i know he’s not much, but – when it comes to “rooting” for who’s out there on the court playing – we ain’t got too much…

  6. The question shouldn’t have been, “Is Russell worth a max contract,” the question should have been “what is the best way to use this cap space.” It didn’t take a ton of foresight to see that Russell would still have a trade market near the deadline, and that you would be able to get real life assets for him if you felt like trading him, even with him on that minimax contract.

    I’m not so sure you should assume that. It’s not riskless.

    There’s always a chance a player has a very down year, (and hurts his value a little) or gets hurt and has a down year (which could impact his value more), or has an ACL or Achilles issue and is out for a long time. Then you are stuck with an overpaid player that may never be 100%.

    I know the comeback is that we managed to trade KP after an ACL injury and someone gave him the max, but I’d argue that the league in general was way higher on KP’s potential as a two way unicorn than it is on Russell who is a scorer and known negative defender. I’d also argue that had we traded KP when Phil was thinking about it, we would have gotten more than we did.

    Same with Durant. There’s risk there, but since he’s so elite even a slightly diminished Durant is worth the max in a lot of eyes.

  7. I should add one more thing. We did a terrible job with our cap space this off season. But it’s not over yet. We still might flip Morris and there’s always a chance we can use it productively next year in a way that’s superior to Russell long term.

  8. @IanBegley: Some players discussed in recent talks between Charlotte and New York included Malik Monk, Julius Randle and Terry Rozier, per SNY sources

    Dsj/randle for rozier monk are the parameters

  9. I’m going to stop paying attention to the trade rumors.

    It gives me anxiety and half of it is probably wrong.

  10. Frank plays much better when someone else is the primary ballhandler. Played great D down the stretch too!

  11. I have 3 things to say about Dallas vs. Indiana tonight.

    1. After tonight, I still think there’s a pretty good chance Porzingis is going to be a good 2nd option on a very good team!

    2. Maybe someone would like to take the time to check, but I’m pretty sure KP’s stats as the #1 option WITHOUT Doncic playing due to injury are massively better than on the nights they play together (but the reverse may not be true). I don’t even have a theoretical explanation for that other than perhaps he’s taking shots that are more to his liking without Doncic dominating so much and he gets a better feel.

    3. Timmy had a very good game also.

  12. I hate that I have to choose between Morris improving his trade value with a stupid narrative like a game-winner and taking a W against a top lotto rival. Dolan’s Razor at my throat 24/7.

  13. 1. After tonight, I still think there’s a pretty good chance Porzingis is going to be a good 2nd option on a very good team!

    wow you don’t say

    2. Maybe someone would like to take the time to check, but I’m pretty sure KP’s stats as the #1 option WITHOUT Doncic playing on that same night are massively better than on the nights they play together (but the reverse may not be true). I don’t even have a theoretical explanation for that other than perhaps he’s taking shots that are more to his liking without Doncic dominating so much and he gets a better feel.

    Are you as sure as when you claimed that the Luka-led Dallas offense was better with him on the court than without?

  14. Randle should get benched anytime he takes a 3, he’s something like 1 for his last 25

    aka Randle should keep taking 3s

  15. This is like Knicks fantasy night, all our young guys playing well.

    Unfortunately a lot of it has to do with the Cavs awful defense and zero rim protection

  16. More likely payton gets an extension, we haven’t had a pg with a triple double since Jarret freaking jack, I hate this team

  17. What a gross win. Congrats, a bunch of veterans are barely better than a terrible Cavs team. What is the point of this team? They have no plan.

  18. Are you as sure as when you claimed that the Luka-led Dallas offense was better with him on the court than without?

    I’m pretty sure that Carlisle, Cuban, and Vulgaris are correct that when KP is on the court, the spacing is better and that allows Doncic (and others) to get to the basket easier where he does all his damage. They’ve been saying that their data suggests that KP is one of the best big man spacers in NBA history based on their own data.

    The overall offense may be worse because KP is playing worse with Doncic. ?????

    I don’t understand why KP can’t play better with Doncic as the PG, but I said the other day that so far KP seems to play much better with Brunson as the PG than Doncic and even better when Doncic doesn’t play at all. That’s what the lineup data suggests.

  19. The overall offense may be worse because KP is playing worse with Doncic. ?????

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

  20. Morris’ value will never be this high again.

    Which means we will keep him (you know our motto – buy high, sell low)

  21. It’s a shame Payton can’t shoot or seem to have a game with a solid TS%.

  22. If you can win a game playing mostly one year mercenaries and also hurt your chances at getting a better long term asset in the process, you do that everytime!

    All I want is a high pick, our only way out is to luck into drafting a star

  23. The overall offense may be worse because KP is playing worse with Doncic. ?????

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    I’m not sure what’s so funny about reality, other than perhaps you not understanding what’s going on in Dallas.

    I obviously have’t seen the data Cuban and Carlisle are talking about, but it’s not hard to understand why KP spacing the floor helps OTHER PLAYERS in Dallas’s offense. That’s the whole point behind a stretch big man. It allows guys like Doncic to get to the rim, finish, and draw fouls where he is more efficient much easier because there’s one fewer big man inside. Doncic is not nearly as efficient from 3.

    But how KP plays standing out beyond on the 3 point line may be different than how he plays when Doncic is out and the game plan is different.

    It could be noise, but the data is very clear so far that KP has been WAY BETTER when Doncic is out injured and KP is the #1 option.

    It appears, KP sucks so bad when Doncic is playing that even if he’s helping others, his own bad offense drags the overall offense down.

    That’s what’s hard to understand, but it’s all over the Mav’s blogs and out of the mouth of management.

  24. Cmon guys this win isn’t gonna get us the 8 pick, we’re still bottom 4. Plus we all agree this draft sucks, so whether we get 1 or 5 probably doesn’t matter.

    I’m just happy DS Jr looked good and some dumb GM might actually give us something of value for him.

  25. Winning Culture is inevitable when you put together winning players.
    We should have expected this winning streak.

  26. If doncic is somehow making kp worse and the powers that be gave kp a max contract they should trade us doncic and build around their max guy.
    How many picks into the future can you trade? I’d trade that many for doncic…..
    Kp, I might need an asset attached.

  27. Cole Anthony is 5-22 with 3 assists and 3 turnovers, feels like our destiny. Upside! Blood in the ground!

  28. Cole is only bad because the spacing in the college game is awful when he gets to Knicks all our shooters will unshackle his game

  29. If nothing else seeing Frank at the two and Knox play some four was a positive- I hope to see more of that (plus RJ at the three) going forward. Seeing DSJ look like an actual NBA player (when he wasn’t on the free throw line) was a positive as well. Winning a game against another cellar-dweller is never good though.

  30. @47 good point, he’s only a more consistent and better shot selection away from being not terrible on offense. Wait until our shooting coaches get a hold of him!

  31. If doncic is somehow making kp worse and the powers that be gave kp a max contract they should trade us doncic and build around their max guy.

    lmao

    It’s not that Doncic is making KP worse. hahahahaha

    That’s not the point I am making.

    It’s either noise or that the game plan is different when they play together and Carlisle hasn’t figured out how to use KP effectively when Doncic is dominating the ball and KP’s job is just to stand beyond the 3 point line, set picks, and mostly shoot 3s.

    Or put another way, KP hasn’t figured out how to play when he’s not getting the ball when and where he wants it because Doncic always has it and is doing major damage with all that space.

  32. If nothing else seeing Frank at the two

    Notice how the role change lead to better rebounding and fewer assists. Again, could be noise, but you doing different things in different locations playing a different position.

  33. Here’s the latest from the Mvas blog tonight.

    https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2020/2/3/21121561/3-things-as-the-mavericks-pickup-another-road-w-against-the-pacers-112-103

    Porzingis set a season scoring high, finishing with 38 points and a blazing hot night shooting the ball from deep. He was 5/7 from three in the first half alone, and cooled off in the second end up at 6/13. Still, he finished with a 38/12 double double that included going a perfect 12/12 from the free throw line.

    With many of KP’s best games this season coming with Luka sidelined, there are a couple ways to look at this… Optimistically, there’s a point to be made that Porzingis and Doncic’s two-man game are building towards a peak that will reach its apex just as the playoffs start, striking fear in to the first round team unlucky enough to draw Dallas. Pessimistically… is Luka’s game too ball dominant at the expense of the rhythm of perhaps their best shooter? Just take that fear and push it deep, deep down. Deep down. And ignore it.

  34. I haven’t followed the trade rumors this season. I just googled to see what might go down, and I see Iguodala is still refusing to play for the Griz. Huh? They are actually a playoff team, that is playing greater than the sum of its young parts? It’s not like old-ass Iguodala is going to put Houston or any other team over the top. In fact, if he wasn’t on the Grizzlies already, wouldn’t the Grizzlies be the ideal team to trade for him? (Players are so weird).

  35. God, fuck that Rozier/Monk trade being floated. How is there possibly a trade where this team gets worse??

  36. Everybody that watches Dallas games sees what’s going on, but no one really understands it other than possibly what I’ve been saying all along. That’s is, one player doing less can be better at the team level.

    Tim MacMahon
    @espn_macmahon
    The Mavs have road wins in Milwaukee, Philadelphia and Indiana in games missed by Luka Doncic. Kristaps Porzingis averaged 28.7 points and 14 rebounds in those victories.

  37. Sixers are in a free fall. They desperately need Morris tbh with both Horford and Harris shitting the bed.

  38. Mavs PR
    @MavsPR
    #Mavericks forward Kristaps Porzingis finished with a game-high 38 points and 12 rebounds tonight.
    Porzingis has now gone for at least 35 points and 10 boards in each of his last two games, after he recorded only one 35-10 effort in his previous 222 career games combined.

  39. @59

    They screwed up their spacing badly and miss Butler (who is a killer).

  40. Cole is only bad because the spacing in the college game is awful when he gets to Knicks all our shooters will unshackle his game

    I hear he dominates 3 on 3.

  41. Frank plays much better when someone else is the primary ballhandler.

    wow, who woulda thunk it? (except everyone smart)

  42. I read that someone heard that the Rockets don’t want Morey anymore. Has anyone else heard that?

    He probably costs too much. Their owner is sounding like a goddamn tightwad all of a sudden.

  43. it’s like our point guards heard the news about schroder…I’m not sure though whether DSJ is playing better to try to stay or go…

    shit, who knows, maybe he’s just finally healthier in mind and body…when he wants – he can jump pretty damn high…it even looks like he wants to play some defense now…

    i know some bad shit can happen to this team and the next couple of days, but, even if we were to keep everything as it is now – we go from 17 wins last year to 27 wins or so this year to 37 or so next year…

    true enough this thought has come up in the past to me reference the knicks – but, I really think we may have bottomed out this year…

    shoot who knows, we could be looking at a 45 win team in ’21/’22 season…

    it’s amazing just how bad fiz was at his timeouts…it really stands out now because by and large miller seems to have a good feel for the game when he calls his timeouts…his rotations make s lot more sense too…

  44. big takeaway for the game – holy fuck, someone is still paying john henson to play professional basketball, in the united states, in the NBA…that’s interesting…

  45. big takeaway for the game – holy fuck, someone is still paying john henson to play professional basketball, in the united states, in the NBA…that’s interesting…

    And the rumor from earlier in the day was…that the Knicks were interested in trading for Henson.

  46. Just how bad is rozier? Seems like an overpaid backup pg with an in efficient career 39% fg. … I’d rather keep randle

  47. So putting together all of the rumors, our roster on Feb 7th will be:
    Starters. Rozier, Russell, RJ, Morris, Drummond
    Bench… Payton, Monk, ???????

    The FO is no doubt looking at the current team and thinking:
    – RJ stinks
    – Knox is a bust
    – No faith in Mitch
    – Perry continues to hate Frank
    – Weak draft this summer
    – No free agent targets this summer

    And concludes that this team will be just as bad next season unless there’s some major change. And Dolan hearing “SELL THE TEAM” is even more impetus to make major change. So middling 42 win team is on the way.

    Let’s meet our starters:
    – Is Morris all of a sudden a 43% 3FG% shooter? He and his twin have had near identical advanced stats so far in their careers and Kieff stinks this season. Severe regression starting the minute after he re-signs.
    – Rozier is just terrible. Instead of counting their lucky stars at not signing him this summer, they’re now pursuing him? When Mills and Perry fixate on some guy, they won’t stop til they get him (Timmy, Baker, Payton…)
    – DAR is +.1 in Raptor, minus in PIPM, and +.45 in RPM. His defense won’t improve – got no lateral movement. He’s gonna be terrible in future playoffs just like he was last season (-43 on-off). He’s shooting 54% from 16 to arc. Not sustainable. He’s got a negative on-off so far at GSW. 30m/yr? Bad investment.
    – Drummond is headed to the NBA museum but is gonna stop off in NYC for a few years. Nobody wants that type of center any more…except, of course, the NYK.

  48. Watchin the game, I couldn’t help but think- Cleveland has to choose a lead guard. Exum is a good fit for them as the backup guard, but they hafta choose between Sexton and Garland. So..I wonder what would it take to pry one of them away? I’d be willing to go as far as maybe Trier, DSJ or Knox, and a Dallas pick for either one before I go all in on a D Lo trade. It’s probably not a popular opinion, but with the team looking for an offensive PG, I’m not trying to include Ntilikina in a trade for one unless he’s a real game changer for us. I think D Lo isn’t there yet. He’s certainly close and may be worth it, but I trust Ntilikina’s defense and intangibles way more than Payton or Allen. You need a Ntilikina when you’re building a great roster even if he doesn’t score the way we all would like to see- if he can get his groin issues fixed

  49. Frank is a SG

    Rozier is worse at PG than Frank

    Elfrid is probably better than DLo right now

    DLo has a chance to be a good PG, eventually. But not max money good

    Rozier might be worse than DSJR now that he’s back to normal bad

  50. Going after D Lo NOW is so Knicksian that i’m not surprised. The opportunity to “invest” in him was during the off season when we could’ve got him for nothing. If one of Portis, Morris, or Randle isn’t traded for something i think i’d consider this a lost season.

    I will say that Frank drive where he split the double team and made that contested layup looked pretty fluid. I need about 4000 more plays like that from him before i resign him though.

  51. Frank’s a winning player and I want winning players on the Knicks. He basically guarded the entire Cavs team on the 120-120 possession and wound up causing Osman, a bigger player, to shoot a crappy shot which he missed. That’s a quintessential example of a winning play. I’m assuming (hoping?) it’s no coincidence that he was on the court the entirety of crunch time. It does in fact look like a “let’s showcase DSJ but let’s make sure he’s nowhere near the court in the important minutes.” But, yeah, that’s probably giving the clownshow too much credit.

  52. Frank’s a winning player and I want winning players on the Knicks. He basically guarded the entire Cavs team on the 120-120 possession and wound up causing Osman, a bigger player, to shoot a crappy shot which he missed. That’s a quintessential example of a winning play. I’m assuming (hoping?) it’s no coincidence that he was on the court the entirety of crunch time.

    I’m still not sure why him and Mitch are riding so much pine. You’ve got nothing to lose by letting them play and foul out. When it’s time to make a decision to keep them and at what price, i’d like to have all the information I could possibly gather (not Mitch, he’s a stud). We stink anyway so it’s a win win.

    I am admittedly a bit bullish on Frank, but also understand that he really does have a long way to go on the offensive end. We have spoken a lot about D Lo and what he gives up on defense, but we should also apply the same logic to Frank on offense.

  53. Dink. You beat me to it!

    Apparently Mills and Perry weren’t seeing eye-to-eye. Considering how successful Mills was (sarcasm alert) this is way too late and might just open up trades. Let’s see.

  54. It’s so perfect that when we finally exorcise Mills we do it at such a batshit insane time (48 hours before the trade deadline) that it still manages not to make a lot of sense. The Knicks really can’t have nice things.

  55. Really? And Perry stays?

    Good news, but do I dare to hope FO accountability is entering the MSG? My hopes were crushed in the past.

  56. The Honorable Cock Jowles,

    Here’s the data I was looking for yesterday.

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/04/kristaps-porzingis-tantalizing-a-year-after-dubious-knicks-trade/

    In six games without Doncic, Porzingis is averaging 27.2 points, while shooting 48 percent from the field. In 27 games alongside the MVP candidate, Porzingis is averaging 16 points, while shooting 39 percent.

    “That’s something in the future I want to figure out, how I can be effective also when Luka is playing,” Porzingis said. “It’s something we’ve been working on. I’m in a good rhythm now and I want to keep it going. I think we’re playing pretty good basketball, we’re moving the ball, playing aggressive.”

  57. To quote Marv Albert:
    “Yessss”
    Kudos to BC for foreshadowing Mills firing…
    Let the trade speculation begin anew…

  58. There was never a bad time to fire Steve Mills. He was T E R R I B L E at his job, and has always been terrible. Maybe this means Marcus Morris gets traded and we finally do some good things.

    With no POBO and no head coach, there is a real opportunity to put together a competent group. Hopefully we get things right this time.

  59. I don’t want to trash on Mills any more than I have in the past. He’s obviously a highly educated, bright, and successful man that understands the basketball politics. The problem was that he didn’t understand basketball or GMing well and those were his responsibilities first under Phil and then while in charge. He’s also been part of the organization and influential in some capacity at other times through this long basketball drought. This is a LONG overdue move. Now we just have to replace him with a good basketball man. Personally, I’d prefer a good basketball guy bring in his own GM, but that’s for another day.

  60. I like keeping Perry for now. This is his time to interview for the next POBO, so make good deals for the future of the franchise, rather than short sighted deals to squeeze out a few more wins to save your own ass. Of course, now he’ll probably trade Mitch for John Henson…

  61. Mills out! Bizarre timing but I’m not going to complain. Hopefully Perry isn’t as bad as this offseason implies and we’re able to move our offseason signings by the deadline.

  62. My guess is that whoever they eventually hire to replace Mills is going to hire his own GM unless he’s totally satisfied with Perry. So I wonder how much power Dolan is actually giving to Perry right now.

  63. I’d bet on Perry making better trades without Mills around. He actually hasn’t done bad in trades so far.

  64. New thread time?

    I’m happy that Mills is out, but weird timing after a couple of wins. But, this is Knicksville, so whatever. Now let’s see if an unfettered Scott Perry can do the right things, assuming he actually IS unfettered…

  65. Who said Dolan can’t learn…. this time he fired his POBO 2 days before a deadline rather than 4 days after!!!

  66. Wow. Still need to interpret it all; assuming Perry is just there to man the shop through the trade deadline with a fully empowered POBO after the season to tell him bye-bye.

  67. It seems like Perry beat Mills in a power struggle, which is shocking. Perry seems to be the best executive in the organization, in the same way that the man with one eye is king in the land of the blind. But I’m not gonna lie… 20 years of trauma and Dolan’s Razor has me thinking “wait, what if Perry is actually the dumb one in Pills?”

  68. THJr is the most Knicksy move. Trade away and cycle that trade into open cap space to re-sign him at a higher number. That’s iconic NY Knicks.

    Ron was terrible, we paid him too much, and gave him a de facto no trade clause. But who doesn’t like Ron?

  69. Helluva time for the site to crash. Please please please just trade Morris we can figure everything else out later.

  70. David Zenon
    @DavidZenon1
    Lol the text I just got….. Knicks fans, I’d start getting get hyped. Like right now.

    Mitch’s trainer

  71. There’s gotta be more news to come on why now, two days before the trade deadline. Was Mills bringing a bunch of ideas to Dolan (or Dolan’s appointed approver) and finally Dolan got sick of it all and pulled the plug? There have been a lot of leaks of ideas in the past few days, probably from Mills.

  72. Thank goodness, I’m obviously still wary because this doesnt mean we’ll get a competent replacement, but at the very least this damn hack is gone, finally.

    Let’s see if Perry can do anything decent, and let’s wait until the summer when Dolan chases Masai publicly and fails miserably.

  73. These are the moments Cronin lives for…. ;-)

    I got to say, I thought I would be happier. I blame all the Dolan gravatars for not being able to enjoy this as much as I should….

  74. The contracts and trades got much better after Perry was signed, but the taste in players did not. That suggests Mills drove the type of players they went after. Of course, we don’t know Perry’s taste in players yet. It could be bad, good, better or worse than that of Mills

  75. It seems like Perry beat Mills in a power struggle, which is shocking.

    This is the one I need to hear more on to get to. Given Dolan’s longtime loyalty to Mills, I have my doubts that’s what happened. Probably something more like Dolan told Mills to just go status quo through the deadline and Mills didn’t get the hint. A lot of these trade ideas have the Mills-leak fingerprints on them. They were almost certainly leaked from one of Mills or Perry.

    My initial working theory is that Mills was trying to get Dolan to budge by leaking some of these ideas to the press and Dolan finally had enough. The last couple months have smacked entirely of Mills leaking his basketball ideas to the press. My confidence level in my working theory is not all that high, though, given Dolan.

  76. It’s so hard to be happy with this team, though. We could end up trading Knox, Frank, and 2 unprotected firsts for DLo tomorrow and find out that Mills got fired because he was standing in the way and it would not surprise me.

    I feel good. But that’s usually when the heartbreak comes.

  77. Yeah, I’m happy Mills is finally gone, but feeling a bit of dread about the timing and what Perry might do. Perhaps this happened:

    Dolan calls Mills and Perry to his dungeon office.
    Dolan: “Mills, you’re fired. Perry, you’ve got two days to build me a winner! Dismissed!”

  78. I assume Perry is responsible for at least the two guys he drafted, Hezonja and Payton. Color me unimpressed, both by the talent evaluation and the personal agenda brought to the task.

  79. Adrian Wojnarowski
    @wojespn
    Dolan has already had converations with one possible candidate, sources tell ESPN. The process for a successor is likely moving faster than the time needed to wait on an Ujiri courtship.

  80. I’m going to bask in the glow of Mills being canned and give Perry the benefit of the doubt.

  81. We could end up trading Knox, Frank, and 2 unprotected firsts for DLo tomorrow and find out that Mills got fired because he was standing in the way and it would not surprise me.

    Yep, and Dolan’s Razor.

    Mills outmaneuvered David Griffin, Phil Jackson, and Glen Grunwald — at least. I find it hard to believe he eventually lost to Scott Perry … though, again, Dolan’s Razor.

  82. Dolan has already had converations with one possible candidate, sources tell ESPN. The process for a successor is likely moving faster than the time needed to wait on an Ujiri courtship.

    Oh, Lord. David Blatt? Or is the report just bullshit?

  83. I read something saying Dolan saw the news that the Knicks were interested in John Henson and immediately called Mills to fire him LOL.

  84. The Scott Perry grading curve for the next few days:

    If he trades Marcus Morris–A+

    If he does anything else–F, probably

  85. Knicks literally targeting Masai as if he were Lebron, Giannis, and zion rolled into one player. As they should.

    I’m strangely optimistic about the deadline now… probably misguided.

    Talk on Morris seemed to be shifting toward favoring a trade, but who knows now that Mills is out.

  86. Latest rumor is that Mark Jackson will be the first President/Coach in NBA history. :-)

  87. Now that Mills is out..
    If we do the most logical thing and find our PG in the draft, I think I’m all in on Tyrese Haliburton. He has Ntilikina-type measurables with the game we wish Frank had. I was slow to warm up to him, but the more I see of him, the more I like his game. Don’t get me wrong, if Ball is the pick, or even Edwards- I’d still be happy. But I really like Haliburton.

  88. I want to be happy about this, but we’ve seen this show before. Dolan hires incompetent executive, Dolan fires incompetent executive, Dolan hires new incompetent executive.

    The Knicks are like a block of cheese sitting under a radiator. You can cut the mold off the top, but until you move the cheese, you’re going to keep cutting mold forever. Dolan is the radiator.

  89. The Knicks announce that Steve Mills will be leaving his position as President of the Knicks, effective immediately.

    Mills is also being nominated to the MSG Board.

  90. Uijiri has one year left in Toronto after this one, so NYK would either need to send compensation to TOR or wait it out somehow. That’s be a whole offseason of a lame duck GM pulling the strings.

    All the more reason to move Marcus Morris and try to get a pick back to throw into a possible deal for Masai.

    When that doesn’t pan out, call Isiah Thomas and tell Zeke he can have the gig if he persuades Mark Jackson to come aboard and coach

  91. @136 Phil Jackson was the first combo President and head coach(with his trusty hand puppet Hornacek)

  92. If they’re going to have to give up compensation for Ujiri anyway, they could trade for him today. At least in theory.

  93. I swear I wanted to write the recap but the site kept crashing down on me.

    Now it’s definitely old news, let’s see what happens about this Mills situation.

    The timing is not good, honestly.

  94. The Knicks are like a block of cheese sitting under a radiator. You can cut the mold off the top, but until you move the cheese, you’re going to keep cutting mold forever. Dolan is the radiator.

    1) Lol
    2) Knicks fandom is celebrating the firing of GMs and the brief hope before we sign the next one

  95. Let’s all understand that Masai is going to cost 1st round picks. Money won’t be enough.

  96. @136 Phil Jackson was the first combo President and head coach(with his trusty hand puppet Hornacek)

    well played. :-)

  97. Someone posted this on twitter.
    I knew it, but breathtaking all in one place:
    Knicks since JVG resigned:

    Don Chaney
    Herb Williams
    Lenny Wilkens
    Larry Brown
    Isiah Thomas
    Mike D’Antoni
    Kurt Rambis
    Mike Woodson
    Derek Fisher
    Jeff Hornacek
    David Fizdale
    Mike Miller

    Scott Layden
    Isiah Thomas
    Donnie Walsh
    Glen Grunwald
    Steve Mills
    Phil Jackson
    Steve Mills

  98. Let’s all understand that Masai is going to cost 1st round picks. Money won’t be enough.

    It could be, emphasis very much on “could,” that Dolan is leaking this stuff about interviewing other candidates to put pressure on Ujiri and Toronto. Again, from Dolan’s perspective, if he’s going to have to give up compensation, why should he have to wait? Yeah, Ujiri might say, “I can’t just leave midseason,” but if I’m in Dolan’s shoes my response is, “Why?”

  99. “One issue the Knicks front office debated was on Marcus Morris — whether to trade him or attempt to re-sign him this July.”

  100. Ujiri coming to the Knicks won’t happen since it means he can’t fleece the Knicks in another trade.

  101. Berman says Perry and Mills had “a divide over trade issues” but doesn’t say who was on which side. Seems like the most likely thing is that Mills was the source of the various “buy rather than sell” rumors we’ve heard over the last few days in an effort to keep his job. That would suggest that his firing makes it more likely we do the right thing at the deadline. But who really knows with this team.

  102. “Let’s keep Morris” has to be a Mills idea, right? It’s essentially his only “success” in years of doing this with Mitch as a lesser, and much less prominent, example. There’s no way he’s a big enough name for Dolan to care.

  103. Options if Masai is unattainable? Just brainstorming here:

    -Morey. For my money one of the best out there and it seems like the situation there could be coming to a head with them being slightly disappointing this year plus the new owner cheaping out on title contending teams. I could see him being available this summer?

    -Presti/Buford. Their names came up in some rumors a while ago I think? I’m not sure I buy either.

    -Hinkie. Would be near the top of my personal list. I don’t think it even means you need to be committed to tanking. He did nothing but win trades and rack up assets in his time there. Would be a tough PR sell though and he may be unofficially blackballed. Probably not the kind of move Dolan would make.

    -JVG. Have to bring up his name although I think it has the potential to be Jax 2.0. i.e. we need someone to build a functional organizational structure from the ground up, not just someone who knows basketball inside and out.

    Would love to know what other names people have on the brain.

  104. Kiki Vandeweghe — immediately available, believe he was on the Nuggets end of the Canby/Nene for McDyess trade.

  105. It’s amazing though that Mills will be on the MSG sports board. It’s worse than cockroaches.

    I think that is Dolan’s way of giving a soft landing to someone who was loyal to him.

  106. I think the Knicks should definitely target Morey, the Houston owner is cheaping out again and its very likely Morey will want out relatively soon. If we can get him without having to pay much compensation, I would rather have that other than give up multiple picks for Masai. Masai should be the number one option, for me, but I’d be totally fine with Morey if he comes cheaper.

  107. Adrian Wojnarowski
    ?
    @wojespn
    Just yesterday, Steve Mills was on the phone trying to negotiate trades for the Knicks, including a pursuit for Golden State’s D’Angelo Russell, league sources tell ESPN. Ownership pushed to change course on plans to forgo trade talks for Marcus Morris, too. He’s available now.

    Hell yes

  108. Would love to know what other names people have on the brain.

    Morey. I think Fertitta would take a second round pick as compensation to let him go because he basically wants his own man in there and wants someone cheaper too, but needs the pick to save face.

  109. Adrian Wojnarowski
    ?
    @wojespn
    Just yesterday, Steve Mills was on the phone trying to negotiate trades for the Knicks, including a pursuit for Golden State’s D’Angelo Russell, league sources tell ESPN. Ownership pushed to change course on plans to forgo trade talks for Marcus Morris, too. He’s available now.

    Hell yes

    Well that answers one question about what was Mills thinking and what was Perry thinking.

  110. The CP3 for Westbrook trade is a real headscratcher for me. I’m not as enthused about Morey as some others.

    I’d rather hold course with Perry until we can sign Masai outright. There’s only one more season, it’s not worth the picks.

  111. mike zarren would be a good candidate, though he would probably be a long shot to take the job.

    i don’t care how much of a shit show we look like as usual, this is a positive development.

  112. Ok, so that’s great news coming from Woj. Now we know Mills was the one pushing to keep Morris and Perry was the one looking into dealing him.

    If we leave this trade deadline with Mills gone and Morris traded I’ll be so, so happy, even if nothing else happens.

  113. The Woj tweet is reassuring. On the other hand, there is this from Begley:

    CAA’s Austin Brown is among those being given internal consideration for the Knicks’ presidency opening, per SNY sources.

    Because turning agents into execs has gone so well for the Mets and Lakers. (Yes, they got AD, but Pelinka got taken to the cleaners in the process, and they only got him because they’re the Lakers.)

  114. ESPN Sources with @ramonashelburne: Knicks owner Jim Dolan is already considering a front office model that is working with Golden State (Bob Myers) and the Lakers (Rob Pelinka): Hiring a top basketball executive out of the player agent ranks.

    CAA’s Austin Brown is among those being given internal consideration for the Knicks’ presidency opening, per SNY sources.

  115. Yeah, that sounds bad… it’s not Allan Houston, but I’m still concerned. The good thing is that the new guy would have to be literally fucking Isiah Thomas or Phil Jackson to be worse than Mills, so I guess we’re sort of safe in that front.

  116. For all his faults, Pelinka did eventually build a contender, obviously not the hardest thing to do when LeBron chooses to sign with your Los Angeles based franchise, but still. People clowned on him a lot, but he did make some fine decisions the past offseason. Bob Myers was also an agent and he has been pretty damn great.

  117. Five Year Plan for the Knicks:

    1. begin to collectivize farming
    2. massive increase in domestic raw steel production
    3. sign zion in free agency
    4. win nba title
    5. create domestic tractor building program

  118. What a great day this has been so far in Knicks history.
    Super happy to hear that it was indeed Mills (and not Perry) that was trying trade for Russell and blocking trading Morris.

    Re: Austin Brown – I have no clue about him of course, and would much rather have Masai, Presti, More, Hinkie, etc. That said, in general I am bullish on at least the idea of an agent. These are guys who presumably have deep relationships around the league, and more importantly, a very deep knowledge of the intricacies of the CBA, contract law, and in valuation of players. They’re also supposed to be strong negotiators. Those are good starting points for a new era in Knicks basketball.

  119. Would be sort of ironic if Dolan’s history of trades with Masai Ujiri makes him overvalue 1st round picks which in turn prevents him from hiring Masai Ujiri. I would in a heartbeat give up the Dallas picks for Masai.

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