Knicks Morning News (2017.01.31)

  • [NYDN] Derek Fisher is right about Phil Jackson and this year’s Knicks
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 7:12:11 PM)

    The initial reaction is to dismiss Derek Fisher’s comments as bitter and vindictive.

  • [NYDN] Fisher: We didn’t know exactly what we were doing with Knicks
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 9:26:48 AM)

    With nearly a year to reflect on what went wrong with the Knicks, Derek Fisher has the answer.

  • [SNY Knicks] NBA two-minute report: Anthony fouled on last-second shot vs. Hawks
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 7:41:00 PM)

    A foul should have been called on the Atlanta Hawks’ Paul Millsap on Carmelo Anthony’s game-tying layup in regulation in the New York Knicks’ 142-139 quadruple-overtime loss Sunday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Melo would waive no-trade clause for Celtics
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 2:30:11 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony would waive his no-trade clause to go to the Celtics, reports Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe.

  • [SNY Knicks] Fisher discusses firing, says his Knicks were ‘further along’ than Hornacek’s
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 2:00:30 PM)

    Derek Fisher, who was fired as head coach of the Knicks last season when the team was 23-31, reflected on his time with the team and weighed in on the current Knicks while speaking with Kevin Ding of Bleacher Report.

  • [SNY Knicks] Melo’s 45 points weren’t enough in defeat on Sunday night
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 1:35:38 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony scored 45 points during the Knicks’ 142-139 quadruple overtime loss to the Hawks on Sunday night in Atlanta.

  • [NYTimes] Elena Delle Donne Is Traded on Eve of W.N.B.A. Free Agency
    (Tuesday, January 31, 2017 1:07:41 AM)

    Delle Donne, a star for the Chicago Sky, will move to the Washington Mystics in one of the biggest deals in the league’s history.

  • [NYTimes] Derek Fisher Says Knicks Were ‘Much Better’ Under Him
    (Tuesday, January 31, 2017 1:14:38 AM)

    In a Bleacher Report article, Fisher, who was let go last year after 136 games as the Knicks’ coach, pointed to their 23-31 record when he was fired compared with the 21-28 mark of this season’s team.

  • [NYTimes] Why Not EuroKnicks? For Struggling Team, Hope From Abroad
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 8:55:39 PM)

    The Knicks were slower than most in seeking international talent, but the arrival of Mindaugas Kuzminskas and others has offered a chance at a new identity.

  • [NYTimes] All-Stars, Trade Deadlines and the Best N.B.A. Games This Week
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 6:45:19 PM)

    The Bulls are at the Thunder on Wednesday night, and the Hawks are at the Rockets on Thursday night.

  • [ESPN] Tuesday’s Knicks News: Would Anthony accept trade to Celtics?
    (Tuesday, January 31, 2017 4:48:14 AM)

    Tuesday’s Knicks News: Would Anthony accept trade to Celtics?

  • [ESPN] Fisher: Did more with less talented Knicks team
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 4:01:42 PM)

    Fisher: Did more with less talented Knicks team

  • [ESPN] Sources: Cousins cleared in nightclub incident
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 2:34:22 PM)

    Sources: Cousins cleared in nightclub incident

  • [NY Newsday] Derek Fisher discusses his difficulties working under Knicks’ Phil Jackson with Bleacher Report
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 8:16:21 PM)

    Former Knicks coach Derek Fisher said it was difficult to work under team president Phil Jackson in an extensive interview with Bleacher Report published on Monday.

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony thriving on court despite all the trade talk
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 7:38:47 PM)

    The trade deadline is Feb. 23, and the rumors and reports of the Knicks shopping Carmelo Anthony will continue — unless he says he’s staying.

  • [NYPost] Crushing, last-second defeat a familiar refrain for Knicks
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 8:35:45 PM)

    WASHINGTON — Eight is enough to ruin a Knicks’ season. That’s how many final-possession losses have occurred since Dec. 13 — six of the crushers coming in January. The latest happened in a historic four-hour, four-overtime classic Sunday in Atlanta — the franchise’s longest game since 1951. The NBA’s 2-minute report added insult to injury,…

  • [NYPost] Has Carmelo opened the door for a Celtics trade?
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 7:05:46 PM)

    WASHINGTON — Carmelo Anthony isn’t saying one way or another, but the Boston Globe reported the Celtics are under the impression he would waive his no-trade clause to put on the green and white. Anthony has always despised the Celtics, starting from his childhood in Brooklyn. There have been conflicting reports on whether Celtics GM…

  • [NYPost] Coming to terms with the best thing for the Knicks: losing
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 3:53:09 PM)

    Sixty-eight minutes later, Knicks fans were left in an emotional puddle. This was equal parts outstanding and outrageous, splendid and stupid. You could understand feeling this way in May after losing a playoff game on a buzzer-beater. It’s less explainable to feel this way in January following a game that drops your squad seven games…

  • [NYPost] Courtney Lee finding $50 million worth of confidence
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 10:38:51 AM)

    WASHINGTON — Less than an hour after the Falcons left their final pep rally in the Peachtree State on Sunday to board a flight to Houston, the Knicks and Hawks put on a Super show blocks away at Philips Arena. Five observations from the four-hour, four-overtime loss in Atlanta as the Knicks prepare for a…

  • [NYPost] Derek Fisher: Knicks have gone backwards with Hornacek
    (Monday, January 30, 2017 8:48:49 AM)

    WASHINGTON – The one-year anniversary of Derek Fisher’s firing is approaching, and the former Knicks coach has decided his club was better than this year’s Jeff Hornacek edition despite not having as much talent. In a longform feature on Bleacher Report, Fisher also derided the complexities of working under president Phil Jackson and felt teaching…

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    206 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.31)”

    1. Lebron straight up roasted Charles Barkley.
      http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18589897/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-throws-gauntlet-charles-barkley-hater

      “I’m not going to let him disrespect my legacy like that,” James told ESPN. “I’m not the one who threw somebody through a window. I never spit on a kid. I never had unpaid debt in Las Vegas. I never said, ‘I’m not a role model.’ I never showed up to All-Star Weekend on Sunday because I was in Vegas all weekend partying.

      “Go watch the ’93 Finals when John Paxson hit the shot,” James said. “Barkley and Jordan were laughing and joking with each other during one of the games while somebody’s shooting a free throw. In the Finals. But, oh, nobody were friends back then.”

      “I collect one paycheck from this,” James said of his role with the Cavs. “There’s the owner, Griff’s [David Griffin] the GM, I’m the player. Screw Charles Barkley.”

    2. I love that LeBron called Barkley’s antics out, his act is starting to grow very tired, like he’s the gatekeeper of tough basketball or something.

      talking as if the Cavs gave him everything he wanted, but like he didn’t give the Cavs anything? Bitch please.

      I also can’t seem to understand why the hell is it such a big issue that players have friendships and are vocal about it, who the hell cares?

    3. I guess it’s just the same old vs. new.

      “I used to go to school walking 10 miles everyday! I didn’t have any of your comforts!” and so on.

      BTW, that’s one of the main reason we should be so proud of Clyde. He’s over 70, he won 2 rings, and he’s smooth and never smug. He’s a frigging national treasure and it’s a shame he doesn’t get more recs

    4. Clyde really is the best. And for a guy who is clearly always rooting for the Knicks (the dude even tries to “jinx” opposing players while they’re shooting free throws), he’s amazingly even-handed in his critiques.

    5. Charles Barkley is the biggest hypocrite in basketball. I remember his later years on the Suns when he would openly clown ownership in front of the media and complain about how they let all the good players there go before he went to Houston and tried to form a super team consisting of 4 over the hill Dream Teamers with Olajuwon, Pippen and Drexler. Now he’s the guardian of old-school, do-it-yourself no complaint basketball? Please.

    6. That’s why regular media outlets don’t pursue Clyde more I think, because of how chill and drama-free he is… he’s an amazing personality but won’t join the childish “banter” that unfortunately became the norm instead of sound basketball analysis.

      he’s one of the few reasons why I still watch Knicks games through this wretched stretch.

    7. Bruno, that’s certainly the reason. But I think it would be good for the sport to have some of their worldwid elder statesmen being that chill and smart (and sadly, outside of Knicks fans, Clyde is kind of an afterthought – and the man put up one of the best Game 7 of all times, 36 points and 19 assist, go figure)… I mean, if there’s something I respect Melo for is his good public image (Clyde’s is 100 times better but Clyde is a god). I think the sport needs role models after all.

    8. I agree 100%, but my selfish soul is also in part glad that he’s “ours”, you know? That we have the privilege of having him make Knicks games a much better experience to watch.

    9. er, if you have an uncle like Clyde, you have a cool family. I hope you have a no trade clause.

    10. Clyde is a terrific character. Sadly, it seems as if too many past Knicks great have burnt bridges with the current ownership. Pat, Oak, Bernard King, etc. all should be far more associated with the franchise than they’ve been the past decade.

    11. In many of the most recent mock drafts, Fultz is projected to be the first player taken in the NBA draft, with fellow Pac-12 guard Lonzo Ball of UCLA expected to follow at No. 2.

      So why do not more scouts love him?

      “Fultz does not play hard enough. Picks and chooses,” one long-time NBA talent evaluator said. “Nothing great other than being a physical specimen. Shooting is plus. But why does he lose so much? If you are transcendent as a number one pick type, you have to raise the level of others.”

      “I wouldn’t use a number one pick on a guy who can’t win in college,” a West Coast talent evaluator said simply. “The kid must play harder.” Fultz would be the No. 1 pick “probably only off upside,” the evaluator added.

      http://www.fanragsports.com/nba/potential-top-pick-markelle-fultz-game-scouts-question-commitment/

    12. Clyde is the reason that I fell in love with basketball. He was the epitome of cool. Defense was the first thing on his mind. He was always in control on the court and he’s still that way on the air. Respect.

    13. I would not be concerned at all with Fultz losing in college… his team is pretty bad overall, and guys like James Harden also didn’t win as a freshman.

      unless he’s a clear head case, which he doesn’t seem to be, I would care more about his pretty stellar individual stats.

    14. In other news…being a Marylander, I FINALLY have a local team I can root for in a sport that I love.
      DELLE DONNE IS A WASHINGTON MYSTIC!!!!

      I keep waking up hoping that I’ll read the headline that says Melo has been traded. Not because I don’t like him or appreciate him. It’s just at this stage, it’s better for both he and the Knicks. Maybe it’s a positive sign that he’ll consider waiving the NTC to go to Boston as they have a surplus to trade and will probably be more amenable to sending better value our way.

    15. I would not be concerned at all with Fultz losing in college… his team is pretty bad overall, and guys like James Harden also didn’t win as a freshman.

      Its interesting that the knock on Harden though is that he doesn’t play hard enough on both ends of the court.

    16. Washington is even worse than LSU was last year. That’s not Fultz’s fault. Dennis Smith is the guy who picks and chooses the times to put in actual effort.

      And Clyde’s the man, and he had the greatest G7 ever, better than James Worthy.

      There was an ESPN article asking current and retired players what they think was the best finals game or game 7 (can’t remember) of all time. And Clyde said “well it’d have to be mine wouldn’t it?” What a guy.

    17. it kinda is, but Harden definitely plays super hard on offense, to take the amount of contact he does and keep driving to the rim all the time takes a pretty tough dude imo.

      he coasts on defense, yes, but it is arguable if it has anything to do with how much he carries the offense and how the team is constructed to help him on D.

      anyway, if Fultz is anywhere near Harden’s ceiling, he’ll still be a clear #1 pick without a doubt… you can’t pass up on that sort of potential because a dude is perceived to not try hard in Washington (and while presumably not trying hard having a .200 ws48)

    18. Anyone holding out hope that Cleveland panics and gives up Love? I think we will have the Clippers in our pocket come a month down the line because of how fast they’ll sink in the WC without Paul. But the Cavs are an interesting X factor in the sense that they’re losing a lot of games recently (4-6 their last ten games) and could be in danger of losing the 1 spot to the Celtics or Raptors if they continue this way. I mean, Cleveland just lost last night against a Dallas team they should have beaten. Dirk only played 8 minutes in that whole game.

    19. I’ll say this: I’d be happy to see Melo playing in the Finals. 30% happy for him, 70% happy for us.

    20. Anyone holding out hope that Cleveland panics and gives up Love? I think we will have the Clippers in our pocket come a month down the line because of how fast they’ll sink in the WC without Paul. But the Cavs are an interesting X factor in the sense that they’re losing a lot of games recently (4-6 their last ten games) and could be in danger of losing the 1 spot to the Celtics or Raptors if they continue this way. I mean, Cleveland just lost last night against a Dallas team they should have beaten. Dirk only played 8 minutes in that whole game.

      I think that Phil definitely has the Clips in his back pocket- basically because they’d be easy to trade with with Paul out. Just throw in Jennings and he should be able to land whatever he wants from them. If I were Phil, I don’t do that trade if they don’t include Griffin. There’s no way I take Crawford and Rivers without getting something substantial that I could flip into good current or future assets. I’d also focus on the C’s for a few days then go back to the Clips. No way Cleveland trades Love for Melo. No doubt that Melo would make the Cavs an insanely dangerous squad, but it also KILLS their defense. Their starting 5 would be Thompson (6’8.75″ 238) Melo (6’8″240) LBJ (6’8″ 250) Shumpert (6’5″ 220) Kyrie (6’4″ 190). Theoretically, that would make the defense more mobile, but the weakness would be interior defense and rebounding. If you team can rebound or get in the paint, you have a great chance of destroying that lineup. A GS-Cle rematch would be fun to watch with that lineup though. You could offer KOQ to them and see if they would bite, but you damn sure better get back more than Love.

    21. Clyde calls me to wish me a happy birthday every year. Such a nice guy.

    22. There’s no way I take Crawford and Rivers without getting something substantial that I could flip into good current or future assets.

      I was thinking we net two future draft picks when the Clippers suck.

      You could offer KOQ to them and see if they would bite, but you damn sure better get back more than Love.

      I dunno, for the chance to trade Love to Boston I’d do it. We could have 2 top 5 picks in next year’s draft.

    23. I say if we give CLE Melo-KOQ they should send us Love, Kay Felder and a 2020 1st. I’d do that.

    24. Doc is not trading Blake for Melo now, unless things get reeeeally desperate.

      I still think that the best possible scenario is getting two long term Clippers picks, let’s say 2021 and 2023, maybe a swap best before that in place of the 2023.

      my dream is still that the Cavs get real desperate and Ainge sees a chance to win the conference, then he might pull the trigger with either one of the Nets picks for Love or even, who knows, Melo… but that’s still really really unlikely.

    25. in other slightly worrying news, the Magic are openly shopping Ibaka now… the Celtics could definitely make a play for him and he would fit right in, which would pretty much take them out as a third team for a Melo trade… and he probably could be had without giving up a Nets pick, which would be a much more favourable scenario for Ainge.

    26. If Celtics are amenable to giving away Jaylen Brown to get Ibaka that trade will happen. (If I was Ainge, I’d do it. The fact that Brown is a 3rd pick means nothing. He’s not good and won’t be at least for a couple years)

    27. Pretty sure Derrick and a Blake can’t be on the same team anyways due to some rookie extension rule.

    28. I still think that the best possible scenario is getting two long term Clippers picks, let’s say 2021 and 2023, maybe a swap best before that in place of the 2023.

      Yes, I think that’s the deal we are going to be able to get along with taking on some bad contracts from the Clips. I think that will be there for us at the minimum if push comes to shove.

      my dream is still that the Cavs get real desperate and Ainge sees a chance to win the conference, then he might pull the trigger with either one of the Nets picks for Love or even, who knows, Melo… but that’s still really really unlikely.

      The beautiful part about having Love is that we can make the trade with the Celtics or not. From Ainge’s perspective, Love would be the perfect fit for their team. He rebounds like a maniac and will draw opposing bigs out of the paint for Thomas to slash to the basket. He doesn’t even have to play Love much as the Celtics are 2 seed without him, so they can rest him. All they have to give up is a pick that may or may not pan out.

    29. @32

      Did we read the same article? This is what it ended on in its evaluation of Fultz’s game:

      But for now, Fultz is leaving an impression on those who face him in the college ranks. As Miller commented after the game, “[T]here’s some players playing in our conference right now, as you follow the next 10 years in the NBA, we’ll look back and say, ‘Man, you remember when they were in the Pac-12 in that 2016–17 season?’ … Markelle is one of them.” He might be the one.

    30. yeah, in the end it’s all mostly on the Cavs hands: Love would be the number 1 priority for the Celtics as he would potentially add to their strengths (smart and efficient shooting) and solve a big problem (rebounding), and they are pretty much the only team that has assets to do it.

      the dream scenario could be had if LeBron decides he NEEDS Melo now, then we trade directly with the Cavs and flip Love to the Celtics in a separate trade for Amir Johnson, Zeller and Jerebko plus a Nets pick.

    31. I legitimately thought it was reub because of the PJ Tucker obsession, so I just ignored it.

    32. The main obstacle (besides the NTC, of course) to trading Melo for something good like draft picks or young talent is the fact he’s no longer perceived as a star or a player that can be the difference between a good team and a championship-caliber squad.

      I have serious doubts there is a single team in the NBA willing to take a gamble on Melo after watching his impact on the NY Knicks. A trade where the Knicks are the ones offering the assets, yes. A trade good for the Knicks, no.

    33. Was my impression too good? I used Rubio and PJ Tucker. I ended the post with Sad! I almost called everyone nabobs, but I thought that would be overkill.

    34. the dream scenario could be had if LeBron decides he NEEDS Melo now, then we trade directly with the Cavs and flip Love to the Celtics in a separate trade for Amir Johnson, Zeller and Jerebko plus a Nets pick.

      Can you just imagine the debacle in Cleveland with LeBron suffering a lineup that includes the corpse of Kyle Korver and the mummified remains of Melo?

      There’s absolutely zero chance LeBron doesn’t know Melo is not part of the solution to whatever problem Cleveland might have.

    35. SPECULATION ALERT! This was in the Boston Globe today:

      But the C’s do have interest in Anthony for themselves, as well. They have for a long time. And it’s no doubt their attention gained an even greater degree when word filtered out that the Celts are one of the clubs for whom Carmelo would consider waiving his no-trade clause.

      The question in this case, and, really, in every case, is price. According to multiple sources, there have been, as of the weekend, no formal trade talks between the Celts and New York, but that was largely because the Knicks are believed to be asking a Melo’s ransom for the star.

      Anthony could be the additional major scoring source the Celts need, and there is every reason to believe he would fit here from the technical hoop standpoint and as a teammate. But unless Ainge can get more than the 32-year-old Melo, it is hard to picture a scenario in which he surrenders one of the first-rounders he has coming from Brooklyn.

    36. I dunno, for the chance to trade Love to Boston I’d do it. We could have 2 top 5 picks in next year’s draft.

      That I can see, but would Cleveland do that without asking for a big in return? So that’s what I mean when I say “get more than Love” or “no way Cleveland trades Love for Melo”. But yea, getting another all star to flip would be preferable to just moving Melo for random players with 2-4 year deals. And regarding the Clips, those future picks would be great! They are no doubt going to suck sooner than later with the age of their core. Also, as you accurately stated earlier- the Clips should sink sans Paul. So I think that you can force their hand if you include Jennings in a Melo deal and get back Griffin. Their best player is down for a while, Griffin can’t stay healthy, DJ isn’t as young as he seems, Redick is getting up there as well, and they don’t have great future assets to rely on unless they want to become the Clips of old again for a few years. So the window for that core is closing quickly- even with a healthy Griffin. And honestly, Melo is still better than Griffin at scoring (and the true go to guy offensively they need with Paul), and just as good at rebounding from the PF spot. Plus they have DJ doing most of the dirty work inside, and his health is way more reliable. So I think/hope that’s a logical trade to make for both squads if Phil doesn’t ask for future picks because he can easily flip Griffin to just about anywhere.

    37. Totes, the Knicks can’t trade for Griffin as long as they have Rose on the roster, they both had designated max expansions on his contract and the league only allows one such player per team.

    38. Anyone worrying about Melo waiving the NTC is so behind the news. Its being waved for three teams and quite frankly I’m thrilled since Melo now has a stake in any trade we can make. We’ve seen him light it up the past two or so weeks since the trade talk began for one reason: he wants to leave and make a deal happen by showing that he’s still an elite scorer. And so long as Love’s back acts up, Cleveland loses, and LA continues to slip down the standings the market will be there.

    39. the news that the Knicks are asking for star compensation for Melo are good, though… don’t rush into a deal, let him keep shooting and bank on the other teams getting desperate.

    40. Again, if Melo is willing to waive the NTC to Boston, we might as well ignore every other team unless we can get Love. Melo + KOQ + 1 would be enough for the Nets pick I think

    41. I have serious doubts there is a single team in the NBA willing to take a gamble on Melo after watching his impact on the NY Knicks.

      That’s only partly true, and just because of the NTC. Every fringe playoff contender would give us some assets for sure. I might even see the Spurs giving us some good things, but Melo will not agree to go there (for example: Gasol, Bertans and Dejounte Murray).

    42. That I can see, but would Cleveland do that without asking for a big in return? So that’s what I mean when I say “get more than Love” or “no way Cleveland trades Love for Melo”

      I guess we could offer them Jennings, O’Quinn and Melo for Love and Frye.

    43. There is not a single team in the NBA in a position to:

      1. Absorb Melo’s nearly 30M cap hit
      2. Become championship-caliber overnight by replacing one or more players with Melo’s less-than-stellar overall production *while* providing valuable youg players or draft picks
      3. Take a huge gamble on a grossly overpaid former star clearly on the decline.

      The Knicks only chance is to have Dolan sell the Knicks to a group led by Ujiri and immediately buy one of the 76ers, Boston or Golden State.

    44. Totes, the Knicks can’t trade for Griffin as long as they have Rose on the roster, they both had designated max expansions on his contract and the league only allows one such player per team

      Exactly Phil should include a 3rd team and flip him. Just about any other team would take that opportunity, I believe.

    45. again, Theo, you grossly overrate NBA talent evaluators.

      So you really think they don’t know why NY wants to get rid of Melo, they don’t watch the games or read the stats, they don’t know Dolan and Jackson are one of the worst offices in the NBA and they don’t see what even the dumbest posters see, that Melo is not very good….lol…c’mon…

      Besides, all these teams (Clippers, Cavs, Boston) have better front offices and that’s the reason they are contenders and the Knicks aren’t…so what makes you believe they *and not us* are the suckers?

    46. LOL, this isn’t about what teams should do, its about what teams are desperate to do. Clippers may or not become a championship contender with Melo, but they will be desperate to make the deal because they don’t have any other options except to work towards winning a title with the veteran heavy lineup they’ve constructed. Doc Rivers has built his team to win now and they’re still not better than San Antonio, Golden State or even Houston. What else are they going to do but try to contend with Melo? Trade Blake Griffin while his value is at its lowest after injury? If the Cavs believe that Love’s back is going to be a chronic problem, they’re not going to worry about the gamble Melo presents. They are going to try to go for another championship.

      Why do people make the mistake of substituting their opinion as fact? The facts are the neither the Clippers or the Cavaliers are the top 2 teams in the NBA right now and they are playing to contend this season. As long as this reality remains a deal is possible for the Knicks.

    47. There’s one thing to say. Melo as the first banana is quite not efficient. Melo as the third banana would certainly be much more efficient. Also, even super smart front offices take gambles. Do you remember Richard Jefferson to the Spurs?

    48. The Celtics need to give up that 2017 pick. This draft is guard heavy and next year’s draft has more frontcourt players like DeAndre Ayton and Mo Bamba that would strengthen their roster. That 2018 pick will be more valuable!

      We get that 2017 pick and we need to sign Phil Jackson to an extension. Two top 7 picks in the 2017 NBA draft? We could end up with Lonzo Ball and Jonathan Isaac. My goodness. I’m gonna sign off of the internet now.

    49. There’s one thing to say. Melo as the first banana is quite not efficient. Melo as the third banana would certainly be much more efficient. Also, even super smart front offices take gambles.

      Give that everyone knows Melo would not make any team NBA championship-caliber, I doubt teams are going to pay the Knicks to get Melo. Yes, they will trade for Melo IF Dolan and Jackson sweeten the pot with young players or assets. But if they are the ones required to pay, they won’t do it (specially the Clippers) because they are not winning a chip with or without Melo. So, why would they mortgage their future? Yes, smart offices do take the ocassional gamble, but Melo is not a gamble – he would be a blunder. Unless the Knicks sweeten the pot with young players or draft picks, of course. In that case, he would be an investment.

      At this point in his career Melo is an open book, not a gamble. For anyone.

    50. Man, if we can get two of the five top picks in this year’s draft we’d have a core to build around for years. We just need for Cleveland and Clippers to keep playing like shit. Cavs are 4-6 in their past 10 games with losses against teams like the Pelicans, Kings, and Mavericks. Clips have lost 4 of their last 5, most of them against teams they would’ve beaten with Paul like the 76ers, Timberwolves, and Nuggets.

      Here is where desperation comes into play. I hope Phil sits back and just waits…

    51. The great thing about Theo’s posts is that they are entirely free of facts and any kind of statistical analysis. With the additional benefit of being humorless.

      It’s gonna be tough not to be nervous about potential Melo trades these next few weeks. If Phil nails it, he goes from C to an A. If he doesn’t, it’s an F, and tough to continue paying attention to this team. He has all the leverage.

    52. Ball and Isaac would make me run naked on the streets happy, that would be absolutely insane.

      and it’s not about they not realizing that Theo, it’s about them thinking either that Melo’s struggles are not entirely his fault (pretty damn possible that another front office thinks that) or that they can somehow do something different to utilize him properly with better teammates (also pretty much possible)

      as much as I hate the Carmelo Anthony tenure on the Knicks for multiple reasons, he’s not a terrible player that instantly makes teams worse; he’s just a player who produces at an average or slightly above average rate and commands a superstar role / contract.

      if he does realize his best role is being a third piece, shooting threes and taking open shots created by people like Irving or James, he could become a pretty valuable player on the court… he’ll never be as valuable as a 27 million per year player should be, but do you think the Cavs, Clippers or Celtics really care? If it helps their team contend they don’t give a damn.

    53. Phil currently grades out as a C-. This is the biggest move of his career. Don’t blow it, Phil.

    54. @60

      Bruno, you’re right about Melo becoming more efficient/effective if he’s willing to streamline his offensive game. For his career he has a 31.6 USG%, identical to LeBron’s. That’s not going to fly on a new team. He needs to drop down closer to Love’s career USG% of about 25%.

    55. I have more respect for Lebron today.
      He is right.
      Barkley is charming and funny, but has no place trying to be righteous.
      Lebron has done everything right (except announcing he was taking his talents to Miami while in NY; that was fucked).

    56. I don’t know if anyone’s discussed this or not but they have reserves about Lonzo Ball’s jump shot in the NBA? That is a pretty ugly set up.

    57. It’s a non traditional stroke for sure but you can’t argue with the results (45% from 3 on 6.3 attempts per 48)–his release is still pretty quick but he might struggle initially with people reaching in on his shot since he kind of brings it across his body. But there have been shooters with non traditional form that transitioned with little trouble to the NBA, and it’s possible that he could rebuild his stroke if it really becomes an issue.

    58. I’d be a little worried about the release. Not enough to drop him out of the top 5, but Fultz and Smith are better prospects, maybe Josh Jackson as well.

    59. @66

      Seems to me that NBA level defenders should play him up close because that release will take too long and is too complicated to get off without space. Maybe he gets away with it in college where the lack of athletic and experienced defenders don’t challenge him as much, but I would be worried about him breaking down and recreating it at so high a level. A team could be drafting a rich man’s Ricky Rubio.

    60. I’d take Ball #1. I’ve yet to find anyone who agrees with me but the guy is a basketball genius with some of the best numbers I’ve ever seen. The shot is certainly weird, but so was Kevin Martin’s. Some guys can just make weird stuff work and Ball looks like one of them.

    61. I would take Ball #1 but I’m biased towards pure PGs and because I just love his game. I think there’s a reason Fultz is the consensus #1, but I don’t think it would be crazy for someone to take Lonzo at #1

    62. I like Josh Jackson more than other people here but if we’re worrying about shooting man his shot is broken

      So is Smith’s.

      I think the top 3 prospects are clearly Fultz Ball and Isaac

      Also: Jayson Taytum is going to be not great

    63. I think Tatum is the Ben McLemore of this draft.

      The problem I see with Jackson is that once he faces better athletes he pretty much has no elite skills to take advantage of the defense… kinda like how Wiggins looked good because he was just a better athlete than pretty much all college kids, but he’s also not a LeBron or Giannis type of dominant athlete that can translate this sort of domination to the NBA.

    64. Josh Jackson is so good at defense/playmaking that I can ignore the shooting, reminds me of Andre Iguodala. Smith is such a great athlete and playmaker that I can look past the shooting as well, for the moment. I still think Isaac is a GREAT prospect and would be an incredible fit for us, but I have a tough time putting him above either of those guys given the diminished role he plays at FSU.

      Tatum I agree I’m not super high on.

      My top 5 (in order) is: Fultz, Smith, Jackson, Ball, Isaac. Any one of those guys (and any one of at least 3-5 other guys) would do wonders for our team.

    65. Let’s play the comp game. We compare Ball, Fultz and Isaac to who they compare to at their ceiling and their floor.

      1. Ball’s ceiling is Jason Kidd and floor Ricky Rubio.
      2, Fultz’s ceiling is Dwayne Wade and floor is Victor Oladipo.
      3. Isaac’s ceiling is Kevin Durant and floor is Rashard Lewis.

    66. Fultz is probably a better prospect but Dennis Smith Jr and Josh Jackson? No and hell no. Josh Jackson is going to suck when he has to play against guys that have are similar and better athleticism. Plus he went to Kansas. Who was the last good NBA player to get drafted out of Kansas? Kirk Hinrich?

      Lonzo Ball can shoot it. His form is off but it works and he has the ball handling ability to create separation. Add that to the fact that he has excellent size for the position and is a legit magician with his passing ability and you have a kid with Hall of Fame potential. Markelle Fultz is probably a better athlete than Ball and is a guy who possesses the ability to score on a high usage and high efficiency. Those two, along with Isaac, are the franchise players in this draft. They’re on another planet from the rest of the guys in this draft.

    67. Who was the last good NBA player to get drafted out of Kansas?

      Last elite Jayhawker I can think of is Paul Pierce.

    68. @76

      Paul Pierce and elite should never go on the same sentence on a Knicks blog, unless the word douchebag is included

    69. Dennis Smith Jr shoots 36.9% from 3 on 4.7 attempts per 40. His jumper isn’t broken at all.

    70. I don’t know where the “good” line is drawn but LaFrentz was a prototype stretch big before all his injuries. Currently, there’s Embiid, the Morrises, and of course, Cole Aldrich.

    71. well, there’s Embiid…

      if Isaac’s crazy shooting efficiency translate to the pros he’ll be the biggest star of this class, I think.

    72. The 2017 Brooklyn pick is probably not on the table in any Melo/Love/Celtics deal, but I wonder if it would be possible to score a package that is some sort of combination of the 2018 Nets pick and one of the Celtics’ draft-and-stashers from last year’s draft, Guerschon Yabusele and Ante Zizic. Yabusele is a low-center-of-gravity bowling ball of a power forward with skills, sort of a poor man’s Euro Draymond Green. He has played well in China this season and has lost some weight. Zizic is a pure 5, and he’s a banger. On offense he’s not much more than a roll man, doesn’t have much of a face-up game, but he’s a hellacious rebounder and a good rim protector.

    73. Running away from things you find unpleasant causes suffering. But facing and challenging such situations will enrich your life. #StayMelo

      Melo right now on Twitter. Well, people here tend to say #PleaseDontStayMelo

    74. Disagree re: Josh Jackson, but after Fultz at 1, I guess you could order the next 4 guys (Ball, Smith, Isaac, Jackson) any way you want and I’d be ok with it. Any one of them would have the potential to complete change our franchise for the next 10-15 years+.

    75. @84

      Boy, I hope its in reference to that African American history exhibit he’s looking at in the tweet.

    76. Fultz’s numbers still seem a little light for a consensus #1 pick. Haven’t seen him play and don’t have a lot to offer on the draft. Fultz is putting up better numbers than Wiggins did at least.

      I watched Wiggins a lot in college and he never stood out to me as even a particularly good college star.

    77. @84

      Delusion all over the blog right now, with the usual dumb ones planning how to use that high first round pick from Brooklyn, when odds are Melo will stay or the Knicks will be the ones paying with picks…lol

    78. Melo said he hasn't told the Knicks what teams he would be willing to accept a trade to, says he's still not thinking about it.— Al Iannazzone (@Al_Iannazzone) January 31, 2017

    79. Hi, my name’s Theo, and I post the same fucking thing 300 times a day!

      Duly noted, dude. You think the Knicks will be giving up assets to move Melo. That has been noted in the annals of Knickerblogger as Theo’s official prediction. We get it, bro. You think the Knicks will give up assets to get Melo. Hear you loud and clear, buddy. Now tell us again another 50 times in this thread, because it makes for FASCINATING discussion.

    80. There is a little voice in the back of the deluded heads that bothers them to no end…they know their delusion is not justified and that’s why it bothers them so much to hear the truth …lol

    81. @89 and 91 in a vacuum it is true that it is better if every team thinks it has not been ruled out of the Carmelo “sweepstakes”. On the other hand Carmelo pretty much said he only wanted to go the the Knicks during Melodrama and it didn’t exactly undercut Denver’s rate of return.

    82. Theo, I actually agree with you on most things Knicks-related, believe it or not. Hell, I even think there’s a pretty decent chance that the Knicks won’t be able to get anything useful for Melo and might have to hold onto him. There’s a non-zero chance Phil completely fucks this up and makes another classic Phil Jackson “trade that makes no sense” trade. Your point isn’t without merit.

      Problem is, you’re a complete douche, so everybody hates you.

    83. Hello Bockers my old friends
      I’ve come to talk with you again
      Because a trade softly creeping
      Left its seeds while Woj was tweeting
      And I’ve seen it everywhere around the web
      And in the end
      The trade machine got broken

    84. Plot twist: the assets needed to move Melo are Theo and Reub

      I think I speak for all us when I say that this deal is worth taking on Jamal Crawford’s contract in a second.

    85. Does the volume of shots a player is efficient in matter when projecting players success on the next level?

    86. Theo, I actually agree with you on most things Knicks-related, believe it or not. Hell, I even think there’s a pretty decent chance that the Knicks won’t be able to get anything useful for Melo and might have to hold onto him. There’s a non-zero chance Phil completely fucks this up and makes another classic Phil Jackson “trade that makes no sense” trade. Your point isn’t without merit.

      Problem is, you’re a complete douche, so everybody hates you

      That’s perfectly fine. Hate only hurts the ones doing the hating – I enjoy how every little word I write is not only logical and truthful, as you admit, but it also gets a lot of attention even from the not-so-bright.

      My postings are educational!

      So, keep on hating. I have no problem with that.

    87. Perhaps they could do a case study on the effect of rumors. Did anyone actually say anything, or is this all Woj wrote an article and everyone just ran with it? I get it is smart negotiating not to announce your intentions, but a lot of this seems like so much “we’ve gotta/talk-tweet-write about something.”

    88. well, we are really accepting very low standards for what’s “logical” right now are we?

      to think every word you write is true, and at the same time believe everything you say it’s perfectly logical… only if you are a knickerblogger troll, must be fun.

    89. Theo not only are you insufferable, but I’m fairly confident you’re flat out wrong in this instance. My guess is the standing offer from the Clippers is basically swapping Melo for their garbage, which is bad and I would never take it, but doesn’t involve the Knicks giving up assets.

      You happen to be right more than wrong because defaulting to cynicism is always a safe bet with the Knicks, but none of your posts offer a shred of analysis or anything else interesting for that matter.

    90. I think so, yellowboy, but shooting is also one of the more volatile stats both intra and inter league

      Steal numbers are actually the biggest statistical correlate with NBA success

    91. @95

      I read the full Melo quote and its clear he’s just playing dumb and keeping his options open in public. Here is the article just released.

      “I haven’t told anybody anything,” Anthony said of a reported “wish list” he’s given to Phil Jackson. “I haven’t had that conversation with anybody.” Anthony, though, is close to both LeBron James and Chris Paul and they’ve all talked about playing together one day. But he seemed uncomfortable answering whether the chance to play with a friend on a contending team would be hard to turn down. “That’s a difficult question because I have some close friends on a lot of different teams,” he said.

      When the reporter said that it seems to be two or three teams in particular, Anthony replied: “That’s the only three teams I hear. … Those considerations and thoughts will always be. That’s something we all think about as athletes, try to play with another. We talk about it from high school and college. These are conversations that we’ve had years before any of this ever came up.”

      Anthony would not identify any potential teams but when asked specifically about the rival Boston Celtics he declined to comment.

    92. 1. Ball’s ceiling is Jason Kidd and floor Ricky Rubio.

      Why are you comparing Lonzo Ball, he of the .668 TS% as a freshman in a major NCAA D1 conference, to two of the worst-shooting-but-otherwise-great PGs in recent memory? Are we comparing him on the basis of his complexion relative to two other light-skinned dudes? Or because Jason Kidd is also ugly? Or because they’re tall? ^%$# the heck?

    93. Steal numbers are actually the biggest statistical correlate with NBA success

      Ntilikina anyone?

    94. i am – clyde frazier…

      Clyde calls me to wish me a happy birthday every year. Such a nice guy.

      for reals reub???

      Hello Bockers my old friends
      I’ve come to talk with you again
      Because a trade softly creeping
      Left its seeds while Woj was tweeting
      And I’ve seen it everywhere around the web
      And in the end
      The trade machine got broken

      very nice….

    95. http://basketball-statistics.com/howdoncaastatisticstranslatetothenba.html

      This article is from a few years ago but I doubt the correlations have changed much. Here is how NCAA stats have historically translated to the NBA:

      Below are the R^2’s for the different correlations:

      Points per minute: 0.3405
      Field goal attempts per minute: 0.3522
      Field goal percentage: 0.3436
      Three-point attempts per minute: 0.6391
      Three-point percentage: 0.7941
      Free throw attempts per minute: 0.286
      Free throw percentage: 0.7615
      Rebounds per minute: 0.8312
      Assists per minute: 0.8823
      Steals per minute: 0.5981
      Blocks per minute: 0.9327
      Turnovers per minute: 0.4535
      Personal fouls per minute: 0.4447

    96. It’s more than likely because they’re 3 guys with great passing ability and ugly forms on their jumper. But you’re absolutely right, Jowles. Lonzo Ball shoots way better than those two could dream of. Lonzo Ball is closer to Kevin Martin and Reggie Miller when it comes to shooting than Rubio and Kidd.

    97. Bruno according to that blocks, assists, and rebounds have the highest correlation with steals a bit below them. Points and scoring efficiency are all over the place so picking someone mostly because they were a great NCAA scorer is a bad idea (Jahlik Okafor anyone?).

    98. @106 I think it’s based on the premise that he won’t have a .668 TS in the NBA with that funky jumper. Which is questionable premise in itself, but not the craziest thing I’ve read on this board

    99. @106

      Their college careers

      Ball 14.9 pts/5.8 rb/8 ast/2.5 to
      Kidd 14.9 pts/5.9 rb/8.4 ast/2.5 to

      and this too…

      @106 I think it’s based on the premise that he won’t have a .668 TS in the NBA with that funky jumper. Which is questionable premise in itself, but not the craziest thing I’ve read on this board

      Mind you, I don’t think the Kidd comparison is insulting at all. He was a very underrated NBA PG throughout his career.

    100. I think Lonzos ceiling is J Kidd who can shoot (aka absolutely fucking bonkers great)

    101. @115

      BTW, speaking of steals correlating to success…Jason Kidd averaged 3.5 steals per game in two years of college ball. Ball averages 1.7.

      So while Ball may be the better shooter, Kidd was a far superior defender.

    102. Sure, sure. I wasn’t even all that invested in this argument, but I wanted to mention that Jason Kidd is ugly af. Also he is bad at simple tasks, like not spilling his water cup.

    103. Meanwhile Jahlil Okafor has a .524 eFG% and a .547 TS%. He can score, bro.

      That’s not particularly impressive for a big who brings next to nothing else to the table. I wouldn’t even trade Willy for him straight up.

    104. @116

      Yeah, Ball has good hands, but he’s not going to be avging 2-2.5 steals per 36 in the NBA. Still has the tools to be a very high impact defender, though probably not Kidd level (who was one of the better defensive PGs ever.)

    105. Is there a good historical comp for Fultz– ultra-skilled blue chip PG prospect on a cruddy, bottom-of-conference team? Fultz is asked to carry that entire Washington team. That has to hurt his efficiency and turnover numbers. He has the rock in his hand and is trying to make stuff happen pretty much every second he is on the floor. That team is 9-12 overall and 2-7 in the conference, it’s truly a terrible team.

      I wonder what Ball and Fultz’ stat lines would look like if you swapped them and put Ball on the Huskies and Fultz on UCLA.

    106. Willy actually has a more polished post game than Okafor I think lol

    107. @12o

      I am with you. There is no type of player I love more in all of basketball than the playmaking point guard. Chris Paul is my favorite current player for this reason. I especially think this team could definitely use one in the worst possible way. If we could get a Lonzo Ball, I would probably be more irrationally stoked for him than say a Fultz, who I think will end up a SG type the way Wade did coming out of college. But I have an issue with that stroke.

    108. Sure, sure. I wasn’t even all that invested in this argument, but I wanted to mention that Jason Kidd is ugly af. Also he is bad at simple tasks, like not spilling his water cup.

      great lesson in how to make a point – keep to simple, universal truths…while simultaneously leaving every one else behind…deuces…

    109. BTW, speaking of how steals correlate to NBA success here are the percentages for all of the elite guards in this class.

      Smith Jr. 4.3%
      Jackson 3.1%
      Ball 2.8%
      Monk 2.1%
      Fultz 2.0%

    110. You can say this about basically every point guard.

      True, but we were comparing two players.

    111. Horny’s sounding off Fisher’s critical comments:

      Hornacek said it’s against coaching protocol to criticize others within the profession. “Well, I wouldn’t do it,” Hornacek said. “I don’t think a lot of other guys would do it. But certain guys will.”

      “There’s enough analysts, reporters, that always like to talk about should’ve, could’ve, what they did, so we don’t pay much attention to it,” Hornacek said. “I think he’s probably also trying to put himself in a light that someone else will give him a job. That’s probably why he’s putting it out there.

      “Whatever he did last year, he had a year and a half here — his relationship with Phil, whatever it was, again, this is a new year. Everything’s new. Again, he may have thought he did something with that team from last year. I’m not concerned about that.”

    112. Totes, the Knicks can’t trade for Griffin as long as they have Rose on the roster, they both had designated max expansions on his contract and the league only allows one such player per team.

      Would there be anything stopping the Knicks from just cutting Rose if they could trade for Blake?

    113. Would there be anything stopping the Knicks from just cutting Rose if they could trade for Blake?

      Probably the Knicks paying his salary while he gets picked up by any other team in the league. Cutting a player doesn’t mean you stop paying them, unless there was a massive change to the CBA that I didn’t hear about.

    114. How soon we forget! Remember how 2015 draft was a “3 player draft”? The only close to sure thing in any draft is the consensus #1 pick, everyone else is a crap shoot. If you don’t believe me look at #1 picks since 2000 compared to #2 picks. There’s about a 75% chance of picking a bust or average player with the #2 pick compared to a 75% chance of a real difference maker with #1 pick. That’s why it would be better to trade our pick for Rubio, Tyus Jones, Muhammad. Heck even if it were the #2 pick, that would be the best action.

      *** #2 PICK ***
      2015 D’Angelo Russell
      2014 Jabari Parker
      2013 Victor Oladipo
      2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
      2011 Derrick Williams
      2010 Evan Turner
      2009 Hasheem Thabeet
      2008 Michael Beasley
      2007 Kevin Durant
      2006 LaMarcus Aldridge
      2005 Marvin Williams
      2004 Emeka Okafor
      2003 Darko Milicic
      2002 Jay Williams
      2001 Tyson Chandler
      2000 Stromile Swift

      *** #1 PICK ***
      2015 KAT
      2014 Embiid (but for injury)
      2013 Anthony Bennett
      2012 Anthony Davis
      2011 Kyrie Irving
      2010 John Wall
      2009 Blake Griffin
      2008 Derrick Rose
      2007 Greg Oden
      2006 Andrea Bargnani
      2005 Andrew Bogut
      2004 Dwight Howard G
      2003 Lebron James
      2002 Yao Ming
      2001 Kwame Brown
      2000 Kenyon Martin

    115. Probably the Knicks paying his salary while he gets picked up by any other team in the league. Cutting a player doesn’t mean you stop paying them, unless there was a massive change to the CBA that I didn’t hear about.

      Right, i get that, I’m just saying, if they really had a chance to land a player like Griffin, there would be a way around the rule is all.

    116. Yes geo. Clyde calls me every year to wish me a happy birthday. He’s a great guy.

    117. Theo is right and wrong about Melo.
      Most of the rest of you are just sorry. Sad!

    118. @132

      Your argument makes sense for a team who needs a “sure thing” like the Celtics, who should trade their #2 pick for a known commodity since they’re just one player away from title contention. For a team that is looking to get young and build, you seek upside. I’ll take a stab at drafting the next Durant because we’re in a position to go for broke with a few years to spend developing a core of players.

    119. Reinforcements could be on the way for LeBron James and the defending NBA champion Cleveland Cavaliers, who had an underwhelming 7-8 record in January. Veteran point guards Mario Chalmers and Kirk Hinrich, and wing Lance Stephenson are scheduled to work out for the Cavaliers on Wednesday, league sources informed ESPN.

      Bwahahahaha.

    120. Veteran point guards Mario Chalmers and Kirk Hinrich, and wing Lance Stephenson are scheduled to work out for the Cavaliers on Wednesday, league sources informed ESPN.

      KOQ could fit into one of the Cavs trade exceptions. We could do this deal: KOQ/Jennings for Felder/Jefferson/Andersen. Does that make sense for both teams?

    121. If the Knicks use KOQ to land Kay Felder and nothing else, I’d be disappointed.

    122. @zanzibar

      #3 pick for whatever reason actually seems to yield better results:

      2015: Okafor
      2014: Embiid
      2013: Porter
      2012: Beal
      2011: Kanter
      2010: Favors
      2009: Harden
      2008: Mayo
      2007: Horford
      2006: Morrison
      2005: Deron Williams
      2004: Ben Gordon
      2003: Melo!
      2002: Dunleavy
      2001: Gasol
      2000: Darius Miles

      Some busts/disappointments, but overall quite a lot better than #2.

    123. KOQ should be saved for the Melo trade. Boston or Cleveland would definitely want him.

    124. the closest situation I could find JK is Harden, same conference, kinda bad team (didn’t make tournament freshman year, made it past one round sophomore year), but this Washington team is probably worse than that Arizona State Harden team.

    125. The more I look up the raw stats the more I like Jonathan Isaac. 127.4 ORtg/DRtg 94.2. Suns, Celtics or the Lakers will pick him.

    126. Theo is right and wrong about Melo.
      Most of the rest of you are just sorry.

      Reub, the next time you’re right about something will be the first time. Your opinion not only has no merit, it actually has negative merit. If you say something is true, it’s usually safe to believe the opposite, based on your track record.

      How’s that 55 wins looking?

    127. Jonathan Isaac might be the best player in the draft. He’s a 7 foot guard who rebounds like a power forward and defends like Giannis. He’s rated below future busts Jayson Tatum and Josh Jackson is because he didn’t play in the McDonald’s All American game and FSU has Dwayne Bacon and Xavier Rathan Meyes. They take all the shots so Isaac doesn’t get to show his full potential.

    128. It’s a non traditional stroke for sure but you can’t argue with the results (45% from 3 on 6.3 attempts per 48)–his release is still pretty quick but he might struggle initially with people reaching in on his shot since he kind of brings it across his body. But there have been shooters with non traditional form that transitioned with little trouble to the NBA, and it’s possible that he could rebuild his stroke if it really becomes an issue.

      The best offensive player with an unconventional stroke in my memory was Jamal Wilkes. His slingshot delivery would make anyone vomit, but he was a 3 time champion at UCLA, 3 time all star small forward and twice World champion in the NBA with the GSW and 1980 LAL.

      He put up 35 in game 7 of the finals & vs Philly in 1980 in a game primarily known for rookie point guard Earvin Johnson playing 48 minutes at center for the injured Kareem!

      Check out this unrepeatable/slingshot delivery and comments by RED on Roundball:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av9UFgDJyYI

    129. Paul Pierce and elite should never go on the same sentence on a Knicks blog, unless the word douchebag is included

      You can win an awful lot of big games with douchebags like Paul Pierce. Much preferred to the Allan Houstons and Melos of the world

    130. He’s a 7 foot guard who rebounds like a power forward and defends like Giannis.

      Actually, I agree with everything you’re saying except I am not convinced his handle is KD/Giannis level yet. And that’s a very big issue for the type of player you’re projecting him to become.

    131. Jonathan Isaac’s numbers look the way I wish Markelle Fultz’s did.

      Exactly my worry. Some of the advanced metrics don’t look so hot for Fultz as they do Isaac.

    132. I’ll be at the FSU-Miami game tomorrow so I’ll see Isaac up close and personal. He might be the best and most realistic hope for us given where our pick will fall. Also keep an eye on my guy Bruce Brown in a year or two, kid is good.

    133. Hornacek said it’s against coaching protocol to criticize others within the profession. “Well, I wouldn’t do it,” Hornacek said. “I don’t think a lot of other guys would do it. But certain guys will.”

      What a perfect retort by Horny. He might have well as said…” I don’t think a lot of other guys would tap a teammates ex wife with his kids there! But certain guys will.”

      Game , set and match to the current coach. Nuff said.

    134. Fultz is at .200 and a pretty high BPM but Ball and Isaac both grade out better than him.

      That being said I think being pretty much the only good player on Washington has at least a bit to do with that, but I agree that he probably doesn’t deserve as much consensus as he’s currently got wrt his draft position.

      And yeah, Horny is perfect in his handling of the NY media, which makes him better than a lot of other coaches by default.

    135. @Latke 140

      Yes the real question is what is the probability you’d get a player better than the Rubio/Tyus Jones combination in the draft with our pick? Using my judgment: at #1 pick, there are 11 players. At #2 pick, there are 2 players. At #3 pick, 8 players. At #4, 4 players. And 4 players at the #5 pick.

      If you’re picking 1-2, 13/32 or 40% chance of a better player than Rubio/Jones combination.
      If you’re picking 1-3, 21/48 or 43%
      If you’re picking 1-4, 25/64 or 39%
      If you’re picking 1-5, 29/80 or 38%
      If you’re picking 2-3, 10/32 or 31%
      If you’re picking 2-4, 14/48 or 29%
      If you’re picking 2-5, 18/64 or 28%

      So, if you don’t know where you’re picking but you know it’s gonna be 1-5 with each equally likely, you have a roughly 40% chance of landing an impact player greater than Rubio/Jones and a top 3 picks gets you to 43%. But if you know you won’t pick first, it’s less than 1 in 3. Lakers, Nets, Phoenix all likely to finish below us so odds are we’d finish in 5-10 range. I haven’t checked those but I’d imagine it would net out to less than 1 in 4 chance of selecting player better than Rubio/Jones. Of course, there’s subjectivity here relative to Rubio/Jones productivity, both present and future.

    136. @150 I mean, Giannis and Durant’s handle were nowhere near where they are before they had a couple of years at the top level, this is one of the easiest things to improve for a star level talent.

    137. I don’t know why I think Phil is playing Jedi mind games/3 dimensional chess with LeBron and Melo.

      First, he takes on LeBron for absolutely zero reason (maybe to put him in Fuck Phil mode?) . Then he has Charlie Rosen do a complete hatchet job on Melo to let him know it is time for him to exit stage right before things really Machiavellian.

      Both seem to be bad ideas on the surface, but together??????

    138. @156

      I think it depends on the draft. Last year I wouldn’t have been sad if we dealt our pick (if we owned it) for Rubio straight up (though Poeltl looks pretty decent), this year, I’m not considering it even for Rubio + Jones if it’s in the top 10.

    139. Good players are drafted every year (except maybe 2000). Do your homework and pick the right guy, and then make sure your organization is well equipped to develop young talent. Lastly, don’t ever trade 1st round draft picks if you run the New York Knicks.

    140. So, I don’t think Bos just gives us the NJ pick. But, I could see them doing a deal where they get love or Melo, and flipping picks with us too. Or, maybe we get NJ’s pick (prob top 3) and Boston’s pick (prob 28th) for our pick (prob 10th).

      Would you do that?

    141. If we can get Cleveland to give up Kevin Love then there is no way we don’t get the 2017 pick. Danny Ainge would be an idiot if he didn’t take O’Quinn and Kevin Love for the 2017 1st round pick. An idiot.

      Wait, I forgot Phil sucks at trading. So we still may not land the 2017 pick even if CLE is willing to move Love.

    142. @157

      Yeah, true. I just think its a crapshoot a certain point becuase Isaac isn’t asked to handle the ball as a primary scorer the way Durant was in college.

    143. @158

      This all only makes sense if you are of the belief (like I am) that Phil and Melo hashed this agreement out before the Rosen article and all of the trade rumors were released to the media. Phil is slowly introducing the trade scenario and taking the heat so Melo can deny wanting a trade. It explains all of passive-aggressive insinuations we’ve seen from Rosen and the trade rumors while also explaining how this list of three teams Melo would be willing to play for is available for public consumption. And above all, it explains why Melo refuses to quash the entire ordeal by unequivocally saying he won’t sign off to any trade Phil makes.

    144. I think it depends on the draft. Last year I wouldn’t have been sad if we dealt our pick (if we owned it) for Rubio straight up (though Poeltl looks pretty decent), this year, I’m not considering it even for Rubio + Jones if it’s in the top 10.

      Yes but the 2015 draft looked very strong and there are only 3 players from most top 10 pre-draft lists (KAT/WCS/KP) who have >.100 WS/48 so far this season. Now that, of course could change (in both directions).

    145. It could be me but the expectation that a certain order in the top 5 lottery picks will naturally produce a better choice by virtue of past choices seems to be a variation of the same faulty logic that underlies Gambler’s fallacy. Past outcomes don’t necessarily predict future outcomes. I don’t care if the past 15 drafts show that picking 3rd has produced better outcomes than picking 2nd. I want the opportunity to pick as high as possible to get the earliest shot at the player I want most.

    146. @166

      to be honest, I thought that draft was good but top-heavy, and I think a lot of people thought the same thing on this board at least, where everyone said it’s a 3 player draft (they were right, but were wrong with the 3 players! It was KAT, Turner and KP rather than KAT Okafor and Russell) To be honest, I haven’t seen a top 10 that’s as strong top to bottom in at least 5-6 years. And I think overall it’s the strongest draft class since at least 2011.

    147. I’d say KAT, KP, Myles Turner, D’Angelo Russell, Willy Cauley-Stein, Devin Booker, Sam Dekker, Larry Nance Jr, Kevon Looney, Willy Hernangomez, Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, and Kelly Oubre Jr is a pretty good haul for a single draft. If Jahlil Okafor, Stanley Johnson, and Justise Winslow turn the corner then you’re looking at a special draft.

    148. @163: Don’t forget Ainge has to give up salary to match; he’s not just taking on players without sacrificing anything. And, the only way he’s putting any value on Kyle O’Quinn is if he thinks his name sounds Irish, or if they are planning a beard-off.

      Bos would have to start with Amir Johnson, and his $12m expring. But, Love makes $22M. They would have to add Jeredko at $5M, and then probably Jalen Brown (who they drafted 3rd) or Olynik to get Love. now they have traded all their C depth. If you throw in O’Quinn, they have to trade both those guys.

      So, yeah, they get Love. but, they give up 2 valuable expirings, a young player, and most of their C depth. Maybe they throw in a 1, but I doubt it’s the NJ 1. Especially for a guy w/ a bad back.

    149. @170

      You really expect us to believe Olynyk, Jeredko, Brown, and Avery are the difference between the Nets first round pick and other pick? We’re offering the Celtics the one All-Star player who makes them an Eastern Conference finalist in that scenario plus a very competent backup center.

    150. This trade works fine (Im using Rose’s contract as a stand in for Love’s) and would be fair if they included one of the Nets picks. They would be adding 2 vastly superior bigs and subtracting 2 expiring bigs plus two guards who get no PT. It’d be fine for everyone involved

      http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gp6z5zv

    151. Kevin Love and Kyle O’Quinn make Boston a 60 win team and probably better than Cleveland. You don’t let sorry ass Jaylen Brown and some expiring contracts get in the way of that. For Love and O’Quinn, they should definitely give up Brown, Smart, and their 2017 Nets pick.

    152. This isn’t commentary on your trade but I love when the Hollinger analysis has both teams getting worse.

    153. That said, I don’t see how the Knicks convince Cleveland to send out Love when they aren’t getting O’Quinn back.

    154. I still highly doubt that Cleveland will give up Love in any deal. That wouldn’t be the case if the last few minutes of game 7 had gone slightly differently, but drastically shaking up a reigning champion would be unusual to say the least. There are deals to be made with them (Jennings comes to mind) but I don’t think they’re open to trading Love.

    155. We’re in a very unique position here in that Cleveland might trade Love, despite his superior numbers, for the very fact that he won’t be that healthy for them down the stretch run. His back and injury problems are well documented and its a question if he’ll play many games for them. Celtics can take that chance since they don’t need him as much being the far deeper team. They can rest him until playoff time and still be a top 3 seed. I don’t think Cavs stay the #1 seed in the East if Love continues to sit out with chronic back issues. Melo + Jennings would then be a better fit for what they need.

    156. @177 Kevin Durant’s signing with the 73-9 Golden State Warriors was unusual, too. Having LeBron James as acting GM and publicly telling the world his team isn’t good enough to go back-to-back is unusual, too.

      When the Warriors eviscerate the Cavaliers (and they would have beat the Cavs in 5 last year if it weren’t for injuries to Bogut and Iguodala), we’ll get our draft night trade of Melo to Cleveland, Love to Boston, and Smart, Brown, and the 2017 Nets pick to New York.

    157. advanced stats in college are near meaningless since if you’re a good one dimensional player like malik monk you can look good by being a very efficient scorer… he’s not that good though….

      stls/blks/pts per 40 and 2p fg are usually the best markers with a/to applicable in some cases…. isaac grades out ridiculously there but fultz is better relative to position…

    158. I can’t wait for the Cavs to move Love for Melo, for the Knicks to benefit by getting another 1st round pick and some youth, and for the Celtics’ starting five of Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Love, and Horford to get in Cleveland’s ass for seven games. It’s my favorite scenario.

    159. if that’s just one first I can’t believe Sacramento will accept… I think it’s an amazing haul for Cousins, but he’s perceived as a star and should fetch more in the market.

      If I managed the Suns, no way I do it.

    160. I think this site would be much better if every 10th post had a rough rider reference.

      I don’t think the trade is bad. I doubt Cle gives up both Love and Jefferson though, for Melo and Jennings. I think it leaves them thin at bigs. Unless, of course, they know Love’s back is bad. In which case, not sure Bos does it.

      Does Cle really need a scorer?

      And, even if you are OK w/ all of the above….that Nets pick is so valuable that it’s hard to trade. Not saying Bos doesn’t give up picks, but the likely 1st pick in the draft, for a dude whose back is sketchy and is signed long term; that’s risky.

    161. @181

      You’d be surprised at how mediocre many college prospects look in terms of WS/4o.

      Lonzo Ball .186
      Markelle Fultz .156
      Dennis Smith .138

    162. Assuming the Nets finish with the worst record, Boston only has a 25% chance at the #1 pick. The odds are almost 50% higher that they end up with #4.

    163. I don’t believe that the Cavs would be receptive to trading Love only for him to end up on their competitors for a title in Beantown. Why would they strengthen them? I do believe that if GM Lebron gets desperate enough to move Love then we can have Love for ourselves, which would be nice. He’s better, younger and cheaper than Melo and we could always trade him at a later date for better assets than Melo would bring. No NTC either.

    164. We are only 2.5 games ahead of the #4 spot in the draft lottery. Let’s go Knicks’ (opponents)!

    165. @186

      Where are you getting those numbers? Ball is at .216 WS/48 on Sref, Fultz .199, and Smith is at .182

      From what I’ve looked at the players with the best advanced stats plus athleticism per 48 stats (steals, blocks, rebounds) are the ones who end up the best NBA prospects.

    166. Actually, I was wrong about Ball. All Advanced Stats indicate he will be the cream guard of this 2017 crop. His insane .668 TS%, WS/48 .216 and 4.2 total WS are through the roof. He’s going to be more special than Fultz. The only elite guard who comes close is Malik Monk with a TS% of 626, WS/48 .228, and a 3.7 total WS.

    167. From what I’ve looked at the players with the best advanced stats plus athleticism per 48 stats (steals, blocks, rebounds) are the ones who end up the best NBA prospects.

      You’re right, I was wrongly look at the Conference categories, not the overall. And you’re also right. I was looking at the All Star and the most elite players were the ones with sky high TS% and WS/48. (Curry, Irving, and Harden).

    168. There are 2 more Balls in the family and they may all be great. How scary is that?

      The youngest is named ironically LaMelo and he is growing quickly. Here’s a quote from LaMelo:

      “I’ve got the ball more,” LaMelo told ESPN. “Now that I’m 6-[foot]-3, teams are defending me differently. I’m trying to be the best scorer in the nation.”

      He sounds like the perfect replacement for our Melo.

      http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18268717/ucla-bruins-lonzo-ball-family-just-beginning-relationship

    169. if he ends up being anywhere near his big bro in efficiency and passing, I’ll gladly wait for LaMelo to find his way here.

    170. Now I want Ball. I don’t give a shit about his ugly shot. We can run lots PnRs with him and KP and he’ll have the space to shoot – actually scrap that, KP can’t set a pick for his life. We’ll have Noah or Willy screen for him.

      I had Ntilikina as my crush when I thought we were 6-8 seeded in the lotto. I now believe we can reach the bottom 5. We must tank for Ball.

    171. There are 2 more Balls in the family and they may all be great. How scary is that?

      Have you seen his dad in action? Whoa, that guy is a handful. I have a feeling he’s going to be an overbearing sports dad like RG3s dad who will say all sorts of controversial shit that won’t fly with Lonzo’s NBA teammates when he throws them under the bus.

    172. ts% doesn’t mean much in college… you really do not want any prospect to be shooting that many 3s…. and ftr doesn’t translate too well to the pros…

      you basically want to look at everything that shows they are able to leverage their athleticism and dominate…. and so stls/blks and 2p fg% are good indicators for that… scoring volume shows if they have the ability to score in varied ways which is also a good skill to have in the pros….

      ws48 isn’t a good indicator in and of itself because good prospects have a wide skillset and one number isn’t a good indicator of who will project better… monk has a better ws48 than ball since he’s an unstoppable scorer in college.. but ball is a much much better prospect because he’s better at everything else….

    173. If we flip our pick for Boston’s Nets pick, Boston will win the lottery with our pick.
      It is known.

    174. lol remember when the Clippers traded the pick that became Kyrie Irving to get rid of Baron Davis?

    175. Here is a list of teams that would trade a 1 for Kyle O’Quinn, or would see him as an important factor in a trade:

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