Knicks Morning News (2017.01.26)

  • [NYTimes] Kings 116, Cavaliers 112, overtime: After LeBron James’s Meeting With G.M., Cavaliers Lose for 6th Time in 8 Games
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:37:58 AM)

    The overtime loss to the Sacramento Kings was Cleveland’s first game since James called his team’s roster “top-heavy,” which led to a meeting with General Manager David Griffin.

  • [NYTimes] Mavericks 103, Knicks 95: Knicks Sink Further Into Dysfunction With Loss to Mavericks
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 4:43:34 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony discussed his uncertain future and then scored 30 points in a loss at Dallas, a middling team apparently bound for the draft lottery.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks fade in fourth quarter, lose to Mavericks
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:03:27 AM)

    DALLAS — Carmelo Anthony is involved in another drama off the court and the Knicks remain a maddening team on it.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks’ Carmelo Anthony-for-Kevin Love deal turned down by Cavs, report says
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 12:14:46 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony didn’t know all the details about LeBron James sounding off that the Cavaliers need to improve their personnel and get another playmaker. But that didn’t stop Anthony from saying James wants to join forces with him.

  • [NY Newsday] Mark Cuban not paying attention to Knicks, but likes Kristaps Porzingis
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 9:08:16 PM)

    DALLAS — Mavericks owner Mark Cuban used to have some verbal battles with Phil Jackson when he coached the Lakers. But Cuban wouldn’t gloat that Jackson is struggling in his first time as an executive.

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony’s traditional fourth-quarter fade sinks Knicks
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 6:09:12 PM)

    DALLAS — Carmelo Anthony came, scored and then sank. Anthony notched 30 points, but went silent in the fourth quarter Wednesday, going scoreless while the Knicks’ defense crumbled in a 103-95 loss to the Mavericks at American Airlines Arena. Anthony finished with seven turnovers. Kristaps Porzingis’ slump continued (13 points, 4-of-11), while point guard Derrick…

  • [NYPost] Mark Cuban on Porzingis and Dirk working out: ‘F–k no’
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:39:42 PM)

    DALLAS — In usual outlandish form, Mavericks owner Mark Cuban said from his locker-room StairMaster he wouldn’t be happy if Dirk Nowitzki worked out with Knicks phenom Kristaps Porzingis this summer. Porzingis said in November a plan was in the works to work out with his German idol after plans were foiled last season. Cuban…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo’s response to the fact the Knicks tried to trade him
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 11:14:37 AM)

    DALLAS – At least the Knicks took a swing — but missed. According to an ESPN report, the Knicks approached the Cavaliers about dealing Carmelo Anthony for Kevin Love and were “rebuffed.’’ The report came in the wake of LeBron James saying Monday the Cavaliers need a talent upgrade to win another title and Anthony…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis gets All-Star consolation prize
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:18:44 AM)

    DALLAS — Kristaps Porzingis is headed to All-Star Weekend for the second straight year, even if it’s not for the main event. The slumping, 7-foot-3, second-year Knicks phenom was selected to play in the Rookie-Sophomore Game on Feb. 17 in New Orleans as part of the World Team. Knicks rookie center Willy Hernangomez of Spain was selected….

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony: LeBron wants me – but maybe not now
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 8:05:03 AM)

    DALLAS – Carmelo Anthony is unsure how to interpret LeBron James’ profanity-laced remarks about the Cavaliers’ need to acquire more talent to beat the Warriors – a playmaker, specifically – but the Knicks star knows his buddy would love to join forces with him in Northeast Ohio. James’ remarks Monday night raised speculation he was…

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony’s 30 points not enough for Knicks against Dallas
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 8:51:01 PM)

    The Knicks have dropped 14 of their last 18 games.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson officially has no use for Carmelo Anthony
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 8:42:32 PM)

    There is no longer any need for Phil Jackson to send out cryptic tweets about his best player.

  • [NYDN] Cavs turn down Knicks, who want to trade Carmelo for Kevin Love
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 8:40:38 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony believes his buddy LeBron James wants him as a teammate. But at what price?

  • [NYDN] Mark Cuban needles ‘bucket boy’ Phil Jackson and Knicks’ triangle
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:35:19 PM)

    When it comes to Phil Jackson, Mark Cuban’s still got it.

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony goes off for 30 points, but Knicks come up short in Dallas
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:42:45 PM)

    The Knicks struggled in the second half and could not contain the 16-29 Dallas Mavericks in a 103-95 road loss at American Airlines Center. Carmelo Anthony scored a game-high 30 points.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks at Mavericks
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 6:32:16 PM)

    The Knicks head to Dallas for a matchup with the Mavericks at 8:30 p.m.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Knicks engaged Cavs regarding potential Melo for Love trade
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:46:54 PM)

    The Knicks recently tried to engage the Cavaliers in a potential Carmelo Anthony for Kevin Love deal and were rebuffed, reports Marc Stein of ESPN.

  • [SNY Knicks] Melo weighs in on LeBron’s comments, desire for ring
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:30:42 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony spoke about his own desire to win a championship while weighing in on comments made by LeBron James earlier this week.

  • [SNY Knicks] Willy Hernangomez has been too good to ignore
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:15:42 PM)

    Over his last four appearances, Hernangomez has averaged 11.6 points (on 63 percent shooting from the field) and 10.5 rebounds in just 19.8 minutes per game.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis named to World Team roster for All-Star Weekend
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 2:24:50 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis has been named to the World Team roster for the Rising Stars challenge that will take place during All-Star Weekend.

  • [ESPN] Thursday’s Knicks News: Another poor fourth quarter in loss to Mavs
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:19:31 AM)

    Thursday’s Knicks News: Another poor fourth quarter in loss to Mavs

  • [ESPN] Sources: Knicks’ Melo-for-Love pitch rebuffed
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:44:17 PM)

    Sources: Knicks’ Melo-for-Love pitch rebuffed

  • [ESPN] Towns, Embiid highlight Rising Stars rosters
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:11:07 PM)

    Towns, Embiid highlight Rising Stars rosters

  • [ESPN] Melo’s urgency differs from LeBron’s: ‘He’s won’
    (Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:30:08 PM)

    Melo’s urgency differs from LeBron’s: ‘He’s won’

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    334 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.26)”

    1. I know everyone wants to say Rose is the tank commander, but the real tank commander is Kristaps Porzingis. He’s been our least productive front court player in the rotation and the guys behind him are the productive type that would have made a game like last night winnable. His presence at the 4 along with Joakim Noah make it impossible to play Melo at the 4 for long stretches of time. You see, Rose’s back-ups are still below average NBA players. Every alternative to KP at power forward, whether it be Melo, Hernangomez, or O’Quinn, is a big improvement right now.

      Kristaps Porzingis, I’m hoping most likely maligned by his Achilles that will heal and never be a problem ever again, has been god awful and playing him loses us more games. We really need to sit him until he’s 100% healed, even though his current level of play has been tanktastic.

    2. Also important is that the Lakers have one of the 3 worst records in basketball right now, which would keep Philadelphia from receiving their pick this year.

      If the Lakers draft Lonzo Ball, what would that mean for D’Angelo Russell? Do they trade him or do they move him to the 2? Nick Young and Lou Williams aren’t the future of that franchise.

    3. I think KP is still hurt, but I wonder also whether he’s just broken with all the losing and drama. Rose was beyond awful last night — total black hole on offense especially in the 4th, and unless all the switching was actually a plan (which seems unlikely since Sichting called it out in the post-halftime interview), Rose made literally zero effort the entire night to fight over any screen at all.

      by the way we are as close to the #5 lottery position as we are to the #8 seed in the playoffs right now, and only 4 games ahead of the #3 lottery position.

      i have been an optimist for 90% of this season, but it really is time to tank this thing out right now.

      What does that mean? Trade KOQ. Keep Rose and play him 35 minutes/game. Play Melo about 28 minutes/game and say we’re saving his legs. And for Pete’s sake – play Noah 30+ min/game in order to keep Willy off the court.

    4. If the Lakers draft Lonzo Ball, what would that mean for D’Angelo Russell? Do they trade him or do they move him to the 2?

      I think Russell and Ball could share a backcourt pretty easily, honestly.

    5. A funny thing is that the Sixers might end up actually swapping picks with the Kings, which did not look like it could even possibly occur earlier this season. It’d be a pretty Kings-y thing for them to win the lottery and then have to give their pick to Philly. :)

    6. Ok guys I have the solution. Let’s merge Knicks and Kings into the New York Knings, having the D-League associated team moved to Sacramento and called the Sacramento Kicks. Only downside of this thing is that we would have absorbed a potential dumb trade partner.

    7. I didn’t fully read the game thread, but I think we should give Dirk Nowitzki some love for a truly fantastic career. He definitely had a superior career to the (very) overrated Kobe Bryant. I just wish he spent the last few years of his playing days on a competitive team.

    8. That’s actually great for them.

      Dirk had a great career in Dallas and they love him there, won a ring, he’s getting a LOT of money this season and helping them to win a lottery pick.

      It’s a win-win situation.

    9. We need to trade OQ and sit KP

      This Achilles thing is clearly still an issue– or I hope it is.

      Simultaneously, when you watch Nikola Jokic, who has this absurdly polished offensive game that he’s allowed to develop as the guy on offense, you realize that KP has a lot of work to do. And that the focus needs to switch to him as opposed to Rose and Melo (but especially Rose) freezing him and other contributors out.

      Also: fuck Derrick Rose, he’s awful and one of the least fun players for me to watch in the NBA. The worst is that I’ve seen him yell at other people for poor defense when it was his fault in the first place lol. Great for tanking though.

    10. Hernanbuckets needs to play though. He and KP are the only players we have that project to be a big part of our winning future.

    11. I’d like to have Rose play with Ron, Melo, KP (if healthy) and Willy. Trade KOQ, Lee, Jennings and (if he can get you more than a single second rounder) Kuz. Have Noah be a mentor from the bench until the team really needs him (which means, I don’t know, against Memphis or teams like that). Let Ndour and Plumlee loose for 8-10 minutes per game (not together though, please).

      Rose is needed for the tank. Melo is needed for the frustration (and subsequent NTC waiving). Everyone else gets some muscle on their bones. We lose but we’re (partially) fun to root for.

    12. Melo’s playing like he’s got a chip on his shoulder after being snubbed by both the All Star voters and Bron’s posse all in one week. I’ve been playing on the trade machine and there looks to be some deals that could be done though they would have to be structured into multiple trades and also use Cav’s trade exceptions. For example, Boston could get Kevin and KOQ; Cavs could get Melo, Amir Johnson (expiring), Courtney Lee, Jennings, Kuz, Holiday. And we’d receive Net’s 2017 first, 1 or 2 Cav 2nd round picks, and a bunch of contracts to make it all work (all or some combination of Jerebko, Jefferson, Liggins, JR, Shump, Zeller, McRae, Andersen). Not only would we get a likely top 3 pick through Nets pick, but that deal would facilitate a tank which would make our pick a sure top 10.

      And to continue the optimism, I’m not convinced Thibs wouldn’t do a Noah/Rose trade for Rubio/Pek/Cole. Noah is the vocal player/leader who could help promote Thibs style of play. And Rose wants to play for Thibs who could give him a 4yr/70m deal where he transitions to the spark plug on the second unit.

    13. Melo has had a good January so far, so that probably means he still has decent trade value. I think all of has been duped when it comes to Melo to Cleveland possibility. Last year? Maybe. But this year, I doubt LeBron wants Melo on his team as much as he was rumored to want him. We’re stuck with Melo, and I can live with that. I think the real key is 25. He’s getting back to being an explosive, attacking PG- and he’s in the last year of his deal. We may have to take longer term salary back if we trade him, but I think he’s our best hope at a return package that includes a young player and a decent pick. Or at least a better floor general and a decent pick. I think the fact that Cleveland rebuffed Phil’s offer of Melo for Love pretty much cemented the fact that we’re not gonna get anything of real value for Melo, unless he’s moved in a salary dump. At this stage, Love is playing too good for Cleveland to move him for any player he may be worth- let alone Melo. Clips won’t give us Griffin., Melo doesn’t want Boston….so…yeah- we’re stuck with him. I really wish he would accept a move to Atlanta- I think Melo for Milsap would be a win-win.

    14. There is no evidence that Melo or Derrick Rose have any trade value whatsoever. In no reality are we going to get a “young player and a decent pick” for either of them.

      Also, for those that are praising Melo’s recent play, he did have 7 turnovers last night. I can’t believe how many “fans” are completely brushing over this, claiming it was not his fault they lost last night.

    15. It will take a while, but as time passes, the simple concept of benching Melo until he begs for a trade will begin to make more and more sense as the only attempt at getting rid of him. Not that it would be easy (finding a team willing and capable of dealing with the major cap implications is nearly impossible), but that’s about the only chance. And it helps the tanking efforts a bit.

      Expect the above not to happen. Instead, a trade for Dwight Howard where the Knicks include Porzingis or Hernangomez is more likely.

    16. He’s getting back to being an explosive, attacking PG- and he’s in the last year of his deal.

      Attacking PG =/= useful PG.

      Rose has been abysmal. I think he is quite untradeable.

    17. Also, for those that are praising Melo’s recent play, he did have 7 turnovers last night. I can’t believe how many “fans” are completely brushing over this, claiming it was not his fault they lost last night.

      Quiet, quiet. We can’t take the risk that some GM out there is reading our blog. Melo is great and will only get better!

    18. Also, if Melo plays like this, it’s ok to have him on the court. He gets visibly more and more frustrated with every game while not hurting his trade value. That’s good.

    19. Rose has been abysmal. I think he is quite untradeable.

      Only Thibs might take him and/or Noah. Rose would be fine as an offense generator on a second unit and Wolves have plenty of cap.

      I doubt LeBron wants Melo on his team as much as he was rumored to want him.

      Yeah, simple swap of Kevin for Melo makes no sense but if you start to include other players like Amir Johnson, Lee and Jennings in the mix, then he’d have to think about it. Courtney’s shooting 43% from 3 and would receive a lot more open looks playing in a lineup of Kyrie/Bron/Melo. And finally, Bron realizes how important it is to have teammates who really want a chip; if Melo accepts that trade, it means he’s ready to go for it.

      Clips won’t give us Griffin., Melo doesn’t want Boston….so…yeah- we’re stuck with him.

      Yeah but why wouldn’t Clips do a trade where they keep Griffin and give us some combination of Crawford/Rivers/Johnson/Pierce/Moute plus their 2021 and 2023 picks. We might have to include something like Kuz/Holiday/Jennings to get both picks. Those picks could be very valuable in the future as trade chips since you’re not gonna get an impact player in free agency.

    20. Zanzibar @15 Boston could get Kevin and KOQ; Cavs could get Melo, Amir Johnson (expiring), Courtney Lee, Jennings, Kuz, Holiday. And we’d receive Net’s 2017 first, 1 or 2 Cav 2nd round picks, and a bunch of contracts to make it all work

      This sounds like a good trade for everyone.

    21. Melo is not getting traded and I’ve come to peace with it.

      Let his contract expire or hope that he will opt out after next season.

      He’s not getting better and I’m not sure if he’s still a net positive player due his horrible defense. So he is helping our tank project for the years to come.

      What we can’t even dare to think about is to sweeten trades to get rid of him, Noah, Lee or anyone else.

      Let them all expire. If anyone think that those guys are useful, then they can make a good offer. No to any bad contract (except maybe the expiring ones).

      We gotta live with the mistakes made.

    22. Also, for those that are praising Melo’s recent play, he did have 7 turnovers last night. I can’t believe how many “fans” are completely brushing over this, claiming it was not his fault they lost last night.

      Reminds me of Lin honestly

    23. I just find it really hard to believe that the defending champions are looking to completely shake up their entire roster mid-season because they’re going through a little bit of a January doldrums. Particularly when Love is actually playing well this year. I just don’t see it.

    24. @ 25 – I believe this is a good course too. You can make a bad contract worse by trading it sometimes. Time heals all wounds and if Melo and Noah are only going to get worse, isn’t that a good thing bc it will hamper our team from being good, meaning better picks the next few years?

      A melo deal is probably easier this summer anyways. Let Cleveland lose to Golden State or let the Clippers fail in the first or second round and both of those teams will look to shake things up. I’d let this season ride out. As is, we’re gonna get a decent pick and maybe we can deal Jennings and KQ at the deadline for some more picks, first or second rounders would be fine if its in this year’s draft.

      That would be my plan of action. Keep the team as is, play the young players more (except KP who needs his minutes limited right now I think) and trade Jennings/KQ at the deadline. Of course if a good trade in our favor for Rose, Lee, or Melo presents itself, go for it. But don’t make deals just to make deals.

    25. I’m coming to my usual by the All Start Break I don’t care mode.
      I don’t care what the Knicks do.
      I don’t care whether we trade Melo or not.
      I don’t care that Rose is a black hole.
      I don’t care that Noah is done.
      I don’t care.

      I am pissed that I wasted money on NBA league pass again. There are a lot of unwatchable teams this year.

    26. Attacking PG =/= useful PG.
      Rose has been abysmal. I think he is quite untradeable.

      I wouldn’t go that far. Hard to trade maybe. But easier than Melo to trade, given the fact he’s had a positive impact on the Knicks offense and he’s in a contract year. The question would be: who would actually trade for either player right now? I definitely think Phil should move Lance and Jennings to the Clips though- I don’t see why they WOULDN’T want or need those guys. Start with smaller, space clearing, asset grabbing moves before seriously putting Melo and 25 on the market.

    27. If Lebron is really serious about wanting Melo, a PG, and another C, we could do this trade that seems advantageous (in a subjective sense–theyd be crazy to get rid of Love) to all parties:

      http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jfl6keo

      If Boston balks at trading Brown and giving up a BK pick we don’t ask for brown and include Jerebko instead. We could also take on JR’s horrible contract if Cleveland wants Frye (which they very well might.)

    28. Oh yea, Melo’s valuable enough to net us that top 3 BK pick for sure. Hell, why stop there? I’m sure the Spurs would love to have Melo – surely they’d give up Kawhi Leonard, plus 3 first rounders, right??

    29. Oh yea, Melo’s valuable enough to net us that top 3 BK pick for sure. Hell, why stop there? I’m sure the Spurs would love to have Melo – surely they’d give up Kawhi Leonard, plus 3 first rounders, right??

      I’m just spitballing. Melo is still considered a good player, especially by other players and GM Lebron. I’m not saying it’s likely, but I think you’re selling short just how incompetent some people can be at player evaluation (see: Phil Jackson.)

      Moreover it’s not Melo landing us the pick, it’s Cleveland being stupid enough to trade Love to Boston. Ainge doesn’t value picks and for good reason–he’s not very good at drafting, and he’s had success doing blockbuster trades in the past.

    30. @Silky Yea, I definitely see what you’re saying, but again, what evidence do we have that the Cleveland and Boston front offices are dumb enough to do this? Danny Ainge is not stupid. Lebron James is not stupid, after all, he foresaw the sinking ship in Miami before it even happened.

    31. @Silky Yea, I definitely see what you’re saying, but again, what evidence do we have that the Cleveland and Boston front offices are dumb enough to do this? Danny Ainge is not stupid. Lebron James is not stupid, after all, he foresaw the sinking ship in Miami before it even happened.

      Again, I’m not saying it’s likely, but it’s within the realm of possibility, even though I think it’s ultimately remote. I just like tinkering with trade machine, tbh.

    32. Ok, here’s a fun exercise I just thought of:

      Instead of Phil Jackson getting the pres gig in ’14, you do. You know that Dolan really wants to keep Melo, but he did agree per the terms of your contract, that he will not meddle at all with your duties.

      You have no first round draft pick that year, one 1st in 2015, and none again in 2016.

      And…

      You decide not to resign Carmelo Anthony.

      What do you do next?

      (Please try to make the arguments for your decisions plausible based on reality and known history, like player performance leading to the end of ’13-’14 season).

      Tell Carmelo that things look bleak and that I don’t want him to linger around and waste his best years on a middling team. Also tell him I feel bad that only we can give him the large money $$$$ contract he wants. Here’s an idea, I say, why don’t we find a team that wants him & we’ll do a sign a trade. I don’t want much, perhaps a first, some seconds and whatever expiring contracts they have. I really appreciate Carmelo, and the team will take out a full page ad in every New York newspaper thanking him for his service & wishing him the best of luck.

      Sign Cole Aldrich to a 5 year $6M contract – team options in years 4 & 5.

      Don’t sign Jason Smith.

      Attempt to trade for Marreese Speights

      Hire Russian mob to “take care of” Andrea Bargnani, or just release him outright.

      Scour D-League/Europe.

      Hire coach who understands ts%, per-minute stats, 4 factors, and thinks the triangle offense is stupid.

    33. this might be a more realistic trade, though I think the chances of this are remote too even if the Bulls FO is pretty dumb and Melo’s been amenable to go to Chicago before:
      http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h3xuj5d

      We could probably also get Chicago’s #16-20 pick from that.

      This could work straight up w the Clippers and we could probably poach their 2021 first or something while guaranteeing our tank by doing them the favor of taking on the absolutely awful contracts of Crawford and Johnson.

      http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zkna8v9

      None of these are likely though, probably. Just trying to explore all the options for the fun of it and for the sake of discussion and coping with how bad this team is.

    34. Hire coach who understands ts%, per-minute stats, 4 factors, and thinks the triangle offense is stupid.

      So, hire Becky Hammon or Ettore Messina?

    35. I like the “keep Melo and Noah and let their bad contracts expire” plan. The entropy plan. Just let this shit decay on its own.

      If it turns out the Porzingis is less than what we thought he was– and currently he looks pretty bad– then Phil’s tenure as GM starts to look more like an “F” than a “D.” Either his Achilles is still hurting him, or the Knick coaching staff is doing a poor job developing him, or he’s not as good as we thought he was. If it’s the Achilles then he should really be resting instead of chasing opposing PGs around because Derrick Rose can’t be arsed to fight through a screen.

      Derrick Rose’s game sucks. His whole approach to the game of basketball is a losing approach. He’s a bum.

    36. Can someone aware me on 4 factors?

      There are basically four measurable factors that determine the outcome of basketball games: eFG%, rebounding, turnovers and free throws. This applies to both offense and defense, so really there are eight factors when you look at it this way. The “free throws” portion is measured by the formula FT/FGA, which takes into account the team’s FT percentage and their ability to get to the line in the first place.

      On offense, the Knicks are heavily carried by a strong offensive rebounding ranking. They’re third in the NBA in offensive rebounding percentage. They’re average in terms of offensive turnover percentage. They’re below average in eFG% and bad at FT/FGA. Add that all up and it’s just about a league average offense.

      On defense, the Knicks somehow manage to be pretty decent in terms of eFG% prevention, ranking 10th. But they stink in all the other factors: they’re near the bottom in generating turnovers, getting defensive rebounds and committing fouls.

      The Four Factors are kind of the backbone of statistical analysis in basketball. They don’t lie, and they capture everything.

    37. The 4 factors, while valid, is just a tiny portion of the whole picture. A good team can’t be assembled based on a set of statistical categories alone.

    38. The 4 factors, while valid, is just a tiny portion of the whole picture. A good team can’t be assembled based on a set of statistical categories alone.

      You can’t necessarily assemble a team using the Four Factors, but they will tell you exactly what is good and bad about your team. Using the Four Factors to evaluate individual players is tricky because it’s hard to know how to individually attribute things like eFG% prevention and a poor defensive FT/FGA rate for instance. But if you want to know why your team is good or bad, or what they’re good or bad at, the Four Factors will tell you.

    39. Melo is still considered a good player

      Melo IS a good player. Not worth a max, no, not great, not transformative like LeBron – but arguing that he isn’t good is just silly, the reverse of homerism.

      I don’t like his game; I think he needs to go (so long as we get picks for him). But by any measure he’s a good player.

    40. I just find it really hard to believe that the defending champions are looking to completely shake up their entire roster mid-season because they’re going through a little bit of a January doldrums. Particularly when Love is actually playing well this year. I just don’t see it.

      I don’t disagree but it also could be possible that a deal works for both Bron and Kevin. For example, maybe Kevin would be happier playing in a starting five of Isaiah, Bradley, Crowder, Kevin, Horford where he and Isaiah would be the two initiators on offense. And to Bron, this might work better:
      Melo/Amir/Courtney/Jennings/Holiday/Kuz > Kevin/JR/Shump/Jefferson/Liggins/Andersen

    41. The weirdest thing about talking trades and the need to tank is that many of the trades discussed will hurt the tank. Trading Melo will definitely cost us wins, but if we trade Rose, we’re screwed. He alone is worth -5 wins the rest of this season. If we could trade Noah (we can’t), playing Willy more (and Oak and a healthy KP) would also cost us losses. They rebound as well as Noah, are MUCH better on offense, and at this stage of Noah’s career, aren’t much worse on D. Jennings is eminently tradeable, but he’s been awful a lot of the time – I do think Baker is better for Ws.

      So that leaves us needing to trade Oak or other assets if we want to really tank and get some picks to rebuild. I think that’s why it’s hard to get too excited about it – I like Oak. Good player, GREAT deal.

      I suppose there’s Lee, who wouldn’t really affect our W/L much either way, and who should definitely be worth a pick or more to a contender. Realistically, then, the only tradeable players it would be good to trade are Melo and Lee. We should keep the rest – for the tank (Rose/Jennings) or for the future (Oak, Willy).

    42. Good player, GREAT deal.

      He’s signed for one more year after this (the following year is an “obviously going to opt out” player option). That one year is super cheap, don’t get me wrong, but the Knicks are unlikely to be good next year, as well, so is his deal really all that beneficial to the Knicks? Seems like it would be more beneficial to another team than it would be for the Knicks. That’s why he and Kuz would both be on my “to trade” list. Not urgently so, but still on there. Lee’s the only one I think they urgently should trade. Get rid of him before he collapses as an asset. Defense-first player who can’t play defense is not a good look, so best to dump him when the 3-point percentage is at least high enough that a team would still give a real asset for him.

    43. @51 – pretty much every metric has him ranked from slightly above average to good, depending on what they value. His TS is where it usually is, around league average, but at a high volume, which makes his PER look good. But PER weights scoring way too heavily and isn’t a good metric. Better metrics have him not so high, but still above average, as his good rebounding helps. His better than average assists are offset by slightly worse than average turnovers. And so on.

      If you want to argue “slighter better than average” as opposed to “good,” have fun with that. The point is simply that saying “he is not good” isn’t true. Overrated, overpaid, etc, yes. Bad, no.

    44. Fair enough, Brian – I missed that the fourth year was a player option for Oak. It does make him tradeable. And Kuz is tradeable, too, but I don’t see a point – we wouldn’t get much for him, since he hasn’t proven much, and I’d take another year or Kuz (and maybe resigning him for cheap) over a second round pick. I’d also keep Oak over a second-round pick, but I bet we could get a first for him.

    45. Don’t close the book on Melo-to-Cleveland. If the Cavs continue to falter and LeBron is in his GM’s ear, it could happen. Especially if we include another player, like Jennings (Cavs have no backup PG), to help them justify the deal.

      If I was Phil I would keep calling them. If I was Melo I would keep calling LeBron.

    46. @54 Oh, is that right? I’m currently on Basketball Reference sorting by different metrics – TS%, BPM, VORP, TRB%, DRB%, WS/48 – and I’m surprised how convinced you are at how “good” Carmelo Anthony is.

    47. I don’t really care much how “good” Carmelo Anthony is, he’s a terrible value on his contract and if he’s the guy you’re building around you’re starting off in a hole. If you look at the 30 highest-paid players in the league last year, Melo ranked 20th in that group in Win Shares per Salary Amount. That is a really good building block if you’re trying to put together a mediocre, low-ceiling team.

    48. Woj is reporting the Knicks have also reached out to Boston and LAC about a Melo trade.

      SOMEBODY IS GOING TO BITE.

    49. The only trade with Boston that makes sense for both teams is Marcus Smart for Kyle O’Quinn.

    50. I told you Phil was going to make this trade situation happen. Melo knows it too. That’s why he’s lighting it up on a nightly basis the past 10-14 days.

    51. As a league average big on a low salary through next year, O’Quinn should be the same kind of trade asset Mozgov was when he fetched two 1sts for Denver a couple years ago.

      If the Clippers and Cavs decide they’re both interested in bidding on a package of Melo+O’Quinn+Lee and/or Jennings, and especially if a 3rd team gets involved, the Knicks could come out of this season looking pretty solid, asset-wise.

    52. Clippers seem like the most likely possibility. They could make it work by sending out Crawford and other assorted garbage. Their 2018 pick plus some other goodies from a third team would be fine for me.

    53. Looks like someonein the Knicks front office had been listening to you guys. Cleveland, Boston, LA Clippers all being reported as whom the team reached out to.

      And while I’m at it: leave KP the hell alone. Lord forbid a second year player go through a (injury-related?) slump – a player who’s already shown borderline all-star numbers (with good efficiency) before the team really started to go south. R.E.L.A.X.

    54. Speculation time: what this tells me is that the meeting between Melo and Phil actually went differently than the media reported it at the time. They came to an agreement that Phil would trade Melo while playing coy about the entire deal in their dealings with the press. I bet Phil leaked out those bullshit reports himself to take the pressure off Melo.

    55. And while I’m at it: leave KP the hell alone. Lord forbid a second year player go through a (injury-related?) slump – a player who’s already shown borderline all-star numbers (with good efficiency) before the team really started to go south. R.E.L.A.X.

      He’s injured and probably being fucked with on this dysfunctional team. I still have faith, I just hope he can heal and not have serious injuries mar his promising future.

    56. Knicks president Phil Jackson is determined to find a destination and deal that Anthony would agree to accept before the Feb. 23 NBA trade deadline, league sources said.

      Jackson is determined to rid the roster of Anthony and his contract, and start rebuilding around Kristaps Porzingis, league sources said

      Its happening guys.

    57. Clippers have obligations to trade 1st round picks going out a few years already. From RealGM:

      2017 first round draft pick to Toronto
      L.A. Clippers’ 1st round pick to Toronto (via Milwaukee) protected for selections 1-14 in 2017, 1-14 in 2018 and 1-14 in 2019; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Toronto by 2019, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2020 2nd round pick and 2021 2nd round pick to Toronto [L.A. Clippers-Milwaukee, 8/26/2014; Milwaukee-Toronto, 6/25/2015]

      2019 first round draft pick to Boston
      If at least two years after the L.A. Clippers conveyed a 1st round pick to Toronto, then the L.A. Clippers will convey their 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]

    58. Minnesota is starting to play better but they are getting zero production out of their PG position. I just wonder whether Thibs would want Rose at all.

      Would you guys take on Pek’s contract to get Rubio? Rose for Pek+Rubio works but we would have no cap room this summer.

    59. Looks like the Clippers are going to be really shitty in a few years. We need in on their 2020 and 2021 first round picks.

    60. @68 that’s fair: it’s just hearing the “what if KP isn’t the player we thought he is” is waaaaaay too immature and just inaccurate to say at this point.

      @69 if that’s true, then Phil isn’t as out of touch as some of his detractors claim (although he does have himself to blame a bit for projecting the image that he’s out of touch – though he doesn’t strike me as someone who cares one bit about that).

    61. The Lakers should be on the table for Melo too if they would want him.

    62. Clips, Cavs, Celtics and Knicks… hmmm, sounds like a 4-team deal could be made.

      What do yall think?

    63. I think that, with today’s news, the Knicks are finally Reubing on their way to Greatness.

    64. if that’s true, then Phil isn’t as out of touch as some of his detractors claim (although he does have himself to blame a bit for projecting the image that he’s out of touch – though he doesn’t strike me as someone who cares one bit about that).

      I called it for weeks. It was obvious to anyone who read between the lines that we setting a trade up. Now what we need is for everyone to properly execute. Melo needs to kill opposing defenses until the trade deadline, Phil needs to work his magic behind the scenes, and the team needs to continue tanking.

    65. If Phil trades Melo and gets tangible assets back I won’t be too upset with his tenure overall, even though it would be best described as “failing upward.”

    66. I really think Melo might be more willing to go to Boston than we think. They’d be a fringe contender with Melo at the 4 (but not really, but they’d be perceived as such) and his son and wife can stay in NY since he’s 3 hrs away by car and like what, 45 minutes away by plane. He can stay in NY during the times when there’s no practice/the ASB and the summer. It wouldn’t be that much different from now, lifestyle wise.

      http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ztjm8tq

    67. Phil Jackson may shop Melo all he wants, but getting rid of him and his terrible contract will cost the Knicks dearly.

      Don’t be surprised if Knicks include draft picks and some of the young guys as part of the payment.

      It was costly to get Melo and it will be costly to get rid of him.

    68. I want picks and I think Phil does too. We should be willing to take some shitty contract off a team’s books for a few years for them since we won’t be so hot for a couple of years at least.

    69. Also on Reddit: “If this is true, I’m going to be truly sad one of the best Knicks of all time goes out like this. Whether for better or worse, this is going to hurt.” Lol!

    70. @80 hmmm… with that trade, 17 mil comes off the books at the end of this season. You get the 3rd pick from last year’s draft (what’s jaylen brown’s defensive metrics look like?) Could potentially boost the tank for this year’s draft.

    71. @81

      We aren’t trading any first picks to get rid of Melo. Fuck out of here.

    72. @80 hmmm… with that trade, 17 mil comes off the books at the end of this season. You get the 3rd pick from last year’s draft (what’s jaylen brown’s defensive metrics look like?) Could potentially boost the tank for this year’s draft.

      Brown isn’t very good, and I didn’t like him coming out of college. I still don’t, but he has a developing offensive repertoire and has the tools to be an impact player on defense though he currently isn’t one. He’s worth a shot.

      I’d rather have the BK pick but we’ll see what PJ cooks up, if he cooks up anything.

    73. The weirdest thing about talking trades and the need to tank is that many of the trades discussed will hurt the tank. Trading Melo will definitely cost us wins, but if we trade Rose, we’re screwed.

      It makes zero sense to trade Rose unless we are getting back a #1 pick, multiple 2s’s AND only expirings coming back, which is virtually impossible.

      Just let his contract expire and watch the losses mount! Imagine how shitty he will play the last 20 games when he is taking zero chance of getting injured!

    74. If we trade Melo and Rose (and Noah) we can tank and still compete. Stay positive.

    75. The sad thing about all of this is the Knicks had the opportunity to trade for both Jae Crowder and Isaiah Thomas. Now we have to trade Melo to Boston because they were smart when we were foolish.

    76. If we can somehow wrangle the Nets 2017 pick in any Melo deal, it will make all this pain and suffering worthwhile.

      But because it’s the Knicks, it’ll never happen.

    77. What about Melo to the Spurs?

      It’s difficult for me to see them wanting him…

    78. You have to include Tony Parker or Pau Gasol to make the salaries work, and I imagine Pop wants to keep both of them, though David Lee is filling in more than admirably while Gasol is injured.

      Plus, where would Melo fit? They’d have to move Aldridge to center or Kawhi to SG.

    79. Get used to the idea Melo will NOT bring any draft picks to the Knicks, guys. Knicks will have to give other teams incentives (hernangomez, anyone?) to see them take the nearly $30M cap hold off their hands.

      Assuming someone is actually interested.

    80. It’s difficult for me to see them wanting him…

      I am sure Pop would like to have him and knows his play intimately from the Olympics but I just don’t see anything they would be willing to part with that interests the Knicks.

    81. LOL so let me get this straight. Not only do the Knicks receive no picks for Melo but they have to give away one of their two promising young players to trade him.

      TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    82. I really think Melo might be more willing to go to Boston than we think. They’d be a fringe contender with Melo at the 4 (but not really, but they’d be perceived as such) and his son and wife can stay in NY since he’s 3 hrs away by car and like what, 45 minutes away by plane. He can stay in NY during the times when there’s no practice/the ASB and the summer. It wouldn’t be that much different from now, lifestyle wise.

      Knicks get:
      Jerebko
      Amir
      Brown
      Jackson

      Boston gets:
      Melo
      KOQ
      A private plane to fly Carmelo Anthony back to his home whenever he wants it.

    83. I am sure Pop would like to have him and knows his play intimately from the Olympics but I just don’t see anything they would be willing to part with that interests the Knicks.

      Dejounte Murray plus their first.

    84. Does anyone else assume that Theo and Reub are the same guy just crying for help?

    85. @90 I think the development of athletic small fwds can be weird sometimes. Jae Crowder was nothing to write home about before Dallas traded him to Boston.

    86. Does anyone else assume that Theo and Reub are the same guy just crying for help?

      +1

    87. Does anyone else assume that Theo and Reub are the same guy just crying for help?

      The knickerblogger Janus

    88. Theo and I agree that Melo has little value except maybe to a “win now” team. I think that most of you would agree with us on that. I disagree with him in that we would include Willy or draft picks to rid ourselves of him. Ergo, we are not the same person.

      And btw the don nelson era ended a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

    89. @105: omg haaahahahhahaaha!!! They’re split personalities on the opposite ends of the spectrum of life outlook. Brilliant!

    90. The knickerblogger Janus

      Remove the “J” and you’d have a more accurate description.

    91. Sorry if I’m keeping some of you from your never ending, negativity-laden circle jerk today.

    92. I know it’s painful, but get ready to see some combo of picks, hernangomez, koq or holiday departing the city as part of any Melo trade.

      Melo’s contract plus trade kicker needs very strong deodorizing. Get informed.

    93. I know it’s painful, but get ready to see some combo of picks, hernangomez, koq or holiday departing the city as part of any Melo trade.

      Plus the Statue of Liberty, the 9/11 Memorial and the fillings from James Dolan’s teeth.

    94. @90 I think the development of athletic small fwds can be weird sometimes. Jae Crowder was nothing to write home about before Dallas traded him to Boston.

      I drafted Crowder in a fantasy league as a rookie and held him for two years till he got good. He had great college numbers and in fact was the Big East Player of the Year. I think the only thing less surprising than Crowder ending up a very solid NBA player was the fact that no one on the Knicks saw it coming.

    95. Rube knows his stuff and can be funny at times. He just posts the opposite of what he knows to be true.

      Rube is one of the most insightful guys here – just remeber to interpret anything he says as meaning the opposite.

      So, yes, we are closer than it may appear…lol…

    96. Maybe someone already addresses this, but…

      they’re near the bottom in generating turnovers, getting defensive rebounds and committing fouls.

      This simply implies there is an effort problem.
      Effort is a Hornacek problem.
      And players for a couple weeks have complained about a lack of attention to defense in practices.

      Could it be that the underlying issue is how the team is being coached?

      Also, if your team leaders lack effort on defense, it sets the standard for everyone else. Melo, I’m talking about you…

    97. Could it be that the underlying issue is how the team is being coached?

      It could be that popcorn is too expensive inside movie theaters, but odds are they are just bad players…

    98. This simply implies there is an effort problem.
      Effort is a Hornacek problem.
      And players for a couple weeks have complained about a lack of attention to defense in practices.

      Could it be that the underlying issue is how the team is being coached?

      Also, if your team leaders lack effort on defense, it sets the standard for everyone else. Melo, I’m talking about you…

      Knicks are also one of the best offensive rebounding teams in the league, which is probably as good an indicator of effort as anything.

      And as for the person complaining about focus on defense – when it’s Derrick Rose saying that Hornacek needs to concentrate more on defense….I would say that might be the pot calling the kettle black.

    99. Coaching has nothing to do with how bad at defense Rose and Jennings have been. Hornacek is not the problem; the problem starts with our perimeter defense. We don’t have 2014 Joakim Noah or 2022 Kristaps Porzingis out there to cover their mistakes. This Knicks team’s offense was never going to be very good, but the defense has been a let down specifically because the big shots in Melo and Rose are poor defenders. Talk to me about effort when Rose gets over a screen for once.

      Also, defense is Rambis/Jackson’s department of expertise. Blame those two.

    100. Rose’s idea of being “defensively coached” was getting harangued by Tom Thibodeau for his lack of effort on the floor. Now, with that said, it does bear noting even Hornacek admitted he lost his personal defensive coach to Cleveland so I am sure there’s a coaching problem too. KP still doesn’t understand how to guard the pick n roll as the big man help defender.

    101. Just saying, I would be really fucking pissed if the trade to Boston only netted us Jaylen Brown, Demetrius Jackson, Amir Johnson, and Jonas Jerebko. Like, REALLY PISSED. It’s the Tyson Chandler trade all over again; we get a bunch of youth worth nothing when we could have gotten some more. At LEAST get Marcus Smart back in any deal.

    102. Getting rid of Melo for absolutely nothing would be a good deal.

      that said, I bet we can’t trade him.

    103. Jesus, you people are too much. After weeks of reading you swear that Phil was never going to attempt a Melo trade, I have to read you swearing he will never be able to trade the motherfucker now that a trade is possible. Melo’s being traded and we’re tanking. Accept it as a reality and move on for Christ’s sake!

    104. Apparently we’re willing to take back Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford in any trade with the Clippers.

      HAHAHA WE’RE TRADING FOR WORSE CONTRACTS THAN WHAT MELO HAS HAHAHA I’M SORRY I’LL TAKE THE CELTICS EXPIRINGS INSTEAD DON’T MAKE ME DEAL WITH AUSTIN RIVERS C’MON DOC DON’T TRADE YOUR SON.

    105. Theo, how we suffer for our genius!

      Actually, we’re the ones who end up suffering everytime you both post.

    106. Apparently we’re willing to take back Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford in any trade with the Clippers.

      I would do it, for two first round picks and/or Griffin.

    107. Apparently it is not allowed to have 2 Designated Rookie Max extensions on your roster acquired via a trade at any time. We already have Rose, so we would not be able to do a Melo for Griffin swap.

    108. If I had to guess, the trade (if it happens) will look like Tyson Chandler to Dallas. But getting rid of Melo’s contract in itself is a bonus, unless we get a Calderon-type of contract back.

    109. There’s a provision in the CBA stating you can never have two rookie max extension players on your roster at the same time so we actually can’t acquire Blake Griffin due to the Derrick Rose contract lol. It’s a deal for a NON Big 3 member of the Clippers.

    110. @134

      How about a threeway deal then? That’s how you include Boston. They’d take Griffin in a heartbeat because they need rebounding and an interior scoring bigman.

    111. Am I the only one who wonders about 2 things:

      Does Melo ever sit up at night and curse the fact he forced his way to the Knicks rather than sitting chilly and just coming as an UFA leaving Gallo and Chandler, 2 first round picks. Mosgov, no Billups (saving the amnesty for A’mare and no need to trade for Bargs, leaving easily a better group of assets to trade for Chris Paul years back?

      Now he is stuck in this shit storm.

      Secondly, when does Dan Gilbert get his fill of Lebron and trade off all their assets and tell Lebron which way is up.

      Offer Love and Tristan T to Ainge for the 2 Brooklyn picks plus filler. Trade Irving to Philly for a huge package of picks (Embid, Irving ,Simmons and Noel would make a pretty formidable group for the next 10 years) and tell Mr Whinny LeBron he can go to the Knicks and play with Carmelo for a package built around KP, Picks and Rose.

      Or he can opt out and go to any team that can fit his massive salary demands under their cap.

      The balls of LeBron complaining the league highest payroll that will pay 50M in lux taxes is too cheap because they aren’t filling the 15th roster spot.

    112. @135 if we traded with the Clippers we would very likely be taking back ALL of Wesley Johnson, Jamal Crawford, and Austin Rivers.

      Yup. Theo was right.

    113. Austin Rivers is no longer as terrible as you think-at least not this season. He’s not good, but if he improves even a little (he’s still 24) you can either move him or live with him as an acceptable backup. Crawford is terrible.

    114. i don’t think it’s effort per se… but it’s very likely an athleticism problem…

      I definitely think this is the case with Melo. I think he is just not a good defender in space and he gets lost off the ball, AND his reactionary athleticism is terrible. I know everyone here thinks its effort but he does try and does get lucky sometimes with blocks and steals. I think hes way more similar to Amare on D.(Tries but is clueless)

    115. Theo, how we suffer for our genius!

      lol…i must confess i enjoy watching a couple of very prolific posters going crazy trying to engage (through silly insults) me in discussing their deluded and uttetly naive ideas, but i have bigger fish to fry withe rest of the blog!

      Keep it up, Rube!

    116. If they give us Brice Johnson and a pick I’m fine with taking back whatever shitty contracts they want to dump. Rivers isn’t even that bad this year, I wouldn’t be surprised if he could be moved.

    117. Does Melo ever sit up at night and curse the fact he forced his way to the Knicks rather than sitting chilly and just coming as an UFA leaving Gallo and Chandler, 2 first round picks. Mosgov, no Billups (saving the amnesty for A’mare and no need to trade for Bargs, leaving easily a better group of assets to trade for Chris Paul years back?

      No, he’s happy he forced the trade because it made him richer than he’d have been without it. To him Gallo, Chandler, Mosgov and 2 first rounders weren’t worth that.

      Secondly, when does Dan Gilbert get his fill of Lebron and trade off all their assets and tell Lebron which way is up.

      Not until Lebron quits being an MVP caliber talent.

    118. Wow, it’s gorgeous weather here in NYC, like an early spring day! The next month will be a test of Phil’s negotiating skills since not just Melo but everyone but KP (and maybe Willy) will be tradeable. The most likely Melo trade is to the Clippers for 2021 and 2023 unprotected 1st picks. Are you telling me Clips wouldn’t want this roster:

      1: Paul/Rivers
      2: Redick/Holiday
      3: Melo/Kuz
      4: Griffin/Bass
      5: Jordan/Speights

      This could be possible in 2 separate trades:
      Trade 1
      Trade 2

      And don’t start whining about how far in the future they are. In a couple of years those picks will tradeable for a quality player. Yes I want the Nets pick and outlined how that could happen above. But a lot more would have to happen for that to occur so it’s much less likely. And we still got possibilities to add picks/young players trading Noah/Rose (Wolves) and KOQ/Lee.

    119. If we get Austin Rivers, JJ Reddick, and some unprotected picks 4-5 years down the line I’d say Phil gets a B for that trade. Austin Rivers ain’t the shit show I remembered him to be.

    120. Finally, Zanibar gets it. That’s a brilliant trade. I would so do it for those two picks.

    121. And we still got possibilities to add picks/young players trading Noah/Rose (Wolves) and KOQ/Lee.

      Don’t forget Jennings. I think we can dangle him in front of Cleveland. I’d even take a 2nd rounder for him.

    122. I want NOOOOO part of Crawford in any trade. He’s 36, terrible, and signed for two more years at $14m per. It’s one of the worst contracts in the league.

      Unless we are getting major assets back, it’d be better to just keep Melo and revisit the trade market in the offseason.

    123. @152

      Are you nuts? You want a tankable player and Crawford is that. Keeping Melo fucks our draft slotting up and takes away the first rounders we could get in that deal.

    124. This trade is fine if you include one or two of the clippers firsts in a few years from now (i think it’s their 2021 and 2023?)
      http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zzqegl6

      Crawford is terrible but we don’t plan on competing for the next 2-3 years if we’re going the fire sale route. He helps the tank and if we get Brice and 2 firsts that’s a really solid haul from a team that’s quickly aging and is probably going to be shit by the time their picks transfer to us. Rivers is perfectly mediocre and would be fine as a stopgap guard and/or trade bait for some stupid and desperate team.

      Brice is really good, btw. Or he was coming out of college. That being said I think the Clippers are the worst of our theoretical trade partners.

    125. Maybe the solution is to trade Porzingis, Hernangomez, Holiday and Courtney Lee for Dwight Howard.

      That would complete a super-duper-super team of all-stars with Rose and Melo leading the ticker-tape parade through the canyon of heroes.

      Why aim low?

    126. I want NOOOOO part of Crawford in any trade. He’s 36, terrible, and signed for two more years at $14m per. It’s one of the worst contracts in the league.

      Effectively only one more year since final year isn’t guaranteed. But we shouldn’t really care about cap all that much if we’re rebuilding. We should be more than happy to take Pekovic’s contract in any Minnesota deal.

      Don’t forget Jennings. I think we can dangle him in front of Cleveland. I’d even take a 2nd rounder for him.

      Yeah I forgot him. One or maaaaybe two 2nd round picks to Cavs (if they got any left) seems reasonable.

    127. Maybe the solution is to trade Porzingis, Hernangomez, Holiday and Courtney Lee for Dwight Howard.

      That would complete a super-duper-super team of all-stars with Rose and Melo leading the ticker-tape parade through the canyon of heroes.

      Why aim low?

      Melo, Rose, Noah, and Howard! Just need a time machine back to 2011 and they’re set.

    128. @153

      If Crawford was expiring or even had one more year, he’d be valuable as a tank asset. But his contract length and value will be an albatross for years. Between him and Noah you could have $32mil in dead money through 2019. That’s a third of the cap dedicated to unplayable guys.

      Melo is a neutral or slightly positive asset at $25m. Crawford is an enormous negative asset at $14m. He is 100% untradeable except to dumbass teams like the Knicks.

    129. There’s no reason to give up assets to move Melo, because moving Melo isn’t super urgent. Let his contract expire, who really cares? It’s not like you HAVE to move him.

    130. If Crawford was expiring or even had one more year, he’d be valuable as a tank asset. But his contract length and value will be an albatross for years. Between him and Noah you could have $32mil in dead money through 2019.

      Unless you plan on attracting any major FAs to NY in the next two years I don’t see what the big fucking deal is. You’re thinking small term when you should be planning big term.

    131. @157

      Zanzibar, you’re right about Crawford’s partial-guaranteed third year. He’s got a $3m buyout. I didn’t realize that. That makes him more palatable. Still a big negative asset, but not horrible.

      If Phil was willing to commit to a 2-year tank operation — which I approve of — in order to get consecutive high picks, then Crawford wouldn’t hurt us.

    132. Melo, Rose, Noah, and Howard! Just need a time machine back to 2011 and they’re set.

      Add Vujacic and Phil will need to re-learn how to spell “dynasty”.

      Sometimes the solution is staring us in the face!

    133. There’s no reason to give up assets to move Melo, because moving Melo isn’t super urgent. Let his contract expire, who really cares? It’s not like you HAVE to move him.

      Yes, we do HAVE to move him. Unless we’re in win now mode we’re rebuilding. That’s how the NBA works. The sooner we start to move him the more options we have to rebuild.

    134. Knicks are also one of the best offensive rebounding teams in the league, which is probably as good an indicator of effort as anything.

      And as for the person complaining about focus on defense – when it’s Derrick Rose saying that Hornacek needs to concentrate more on defense….I would say that might be the pot calling the kettle black.

      Frank and others,

      Respectfully disagree.
      Listen, the Knicks show incredibly uneven performance period to period.
      First period they’re giving up 30+ points and the third or fourth, often much less.
      This suggests to me that athleticism isn’t the issue per se (although I think Melo is greatly diminished; we are not a better team with him on the court. Far worse on defense, slightly worse overall).

      It also suggests effort is an issue.

      If you are coming out flat in the first and giving up a shit ton of points, and then shutting someone down in the fourth, you don’t suddenly become athletic and effective on D. No, more likely you’ve always had athleticism.
      Giving up a shit ton of points in the first and then shutting down a team in the fourth does show a disparity in effort.

      I think that comes down to leadership on the sidelines and on the court.
      Our backcourt is pretty athletic. In fact, Ron Baker is less athletic than our starting back court, but he plays better defense.

    135. One other point, it can’t be an athleticism issue of we hit the O boards fourth best in the league.

      What that tells me is we can do it, but we only hustle on offense.

      It also is notable that this deep into a season we cannot defense a basic offensive scheme, the high pick and roll.
      That’s coaching and effort.

    136. Yes, we do HAVE to move him. Unless we’re in win now mode we’re rebuilding.

      You don’t HAVE to move him if the price for moving him is giving up useful assets. At that point you’re better off letting his contract run out. His cap space would only be used to make further mistakes.

      Either move him for assets or let the contract run out. No brainer.

    137. Giving up a shit ton of points in the first and then shutting down a team in the fourth does show a disparity in effort.

      Maybe Dolan uses his power to have the NBA pass a rule that the fourth quarter is played first. #creative

    138. sign idea: the president is a vain New York blowhard who loves trade barriers and so is trump

    139. You don’t HAVE to move him if the price for moving him is giving up useful assets.

      Unless its KP or Willy any asset on this team is expendable and easy to replace.

    140. Alternative fact: the Knicks can get Love plus a couple of first-round picks for Melo, because LeBron desperately wants him.

    141. Regarding the no two max rookie extension players- the Knicks could just waive Rose. But the Clips ain’t trading Blake for Melo anyway so whatever.

    142. just had a chance to make it through the thread – nice comeback from monday’s knickerbocker tuneout…

      perfectly said silky:

      Also: fuck Derrick Rose, he’s awful and one of the least fun players for me to watch in the NBA. The worst is that I’ve seen him yell at other people for poor defense when it was his fault in the first place lol. Great for tanking though.

      he might be helping our tank – but, i don’t think he’s doing the young guys any favors on the team by sticking around…i hope we can get rid of him, sooner rather than later…he seemed okay early on – but, when things go south, a person’s true nature is easier to see…

      what’s up with knick management (ie: phil) letting the world know about all the melo failed trade attempt(s), is he covering his ass, trying to piss off melo or just trying to drum up some trade partners around the nba…are these failed trade feelers going to become a weekly “thing”…

      theo and reub are both key reasons i wanted to join in on knickerblogger – appreciate you both…that and the fact that this level of fan misery is way too great to not share with others…serious – this is some epic stuff here…we’re beginning to make the old clipper organization seem sane…

    143. 11 million illegal aliens oppose any Melo trade. #dreamers

      Re-name Melo ‘Abdul Dahoop Isbad’ and send him to Aleppo.

    144. what’s up with knick management (ie: phil) letting the world know about all the melo failed trade attempt(s), is he covering his ass, trying to piss off melo or just trying to drum up some trade partners around the nba…are these failed trade feelers going to become a weekly “thing”…

      Who said it was Phil who leaked that news? Once he made the overtures the information was out. It could have been the Clippers, Cavs and Celtics front offices which let the news leak that a deal was offered to them.

    145. Who said it was Phil who leaked that news? Once he made the overtures the information was out. It could have been the Clippers, Cavs and Celtics front offices which let the news leak that a deal was offered to them.

      true…i guess at this point i’m just ready to blame phil for global warming, disappearance of jimmy hoffa, faked moon landings, fluoridation, and the cancelling of firefly before it even finished one full season…

      and, i’m particularly pissed at him for the firefly one…

    146. @178 for them all to come out in short order like that, it’s more likely a single source. If those names are out there because Melo has already signed off on them as destinations, this could end really nicely for the Knicks.

    147. @180

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Melo’s leaked out the information either.

    148. Sorry if I haven’t been as prolific with my posting this past hour as I’ve been catching up on my overnight Australian Open tennis. Where real men compete to win all the time. And the Williams sisters too.

    149. Geo and Theo?
      Two sides of the same coin?

      Reub, Geo and Theo – The Magic Trio.

      We have the best names. The best ideas. The best trades.
      #make the knicks great again!

    150. Mannix said the Celtics are also desperate for a C and that Horford wants to play PF. There’s got to be a way we could swing a Melo + OQ trade

    151. The most upvoted comments on Celtics Blog are absolutely against the idea of trading anything for Melo. In fact, several posters there (correctly) recognize all of his faults and how he’d add nothing to their team. Public perception of Melo is NOT good.

    152. Clippers fans like the idea of the trade.

      They also are pretty high on Rivers so that’s good for us.

    153. Mannix said the Celtics are also desperate for a C and that Horford wants to play PF.

      Reunite Horford and Noah! #Florida

    154. I think Boston is too smart to trade for Melo. If the Clippers are in for it who are we to disappoint their fans? Brice Johnson, Austin Rivers (who we wanted in the offseason) and a #1 and I vote yes. It would be highway robbery for us but the left coast needs more Melo before he leaves the sport so why deprive them?

    155. Melo and Kyle O’Quinn
      for
      Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, Jaylen Brown, James Young and the Brooklyn pick.

      Boston gets both Melo and O’Quinn for this season and next season. O’Quinn’s cheap salary and solid production offset Melo’s high salary. Amir Johnson and Jerebko are both expiring and you’re looking for Melo and KOQ to take their minutes anyway. Brown and Young are young players who have been underwhelming. The Brooklyn pick is the real thing of value for the Knicks here of course.

      Boston wouldn’t do that though I guess.

    156. I think Demetrius Jackson over Young. He’s promising and one of the players who projected well from last year’s draft class.

      You might be able to get the BK pick with OQ in that deal–they really, really want someone who can rebound and play C full time or part time. If not, I’d settle for Brown + Jackson + Johnson + Jerebko.

    157. Boston is smart so why would they want Melo? It will have to be the Cavs (only if LBJ insists) or the Clippers I believe.

    158. Its not easy to trade for a superstar anymore. That Boston team is built to win now and there aren’t many options so long as the Warriors keep KD and the Clippers keep Blake. Its a possibility to make a move for Melo now if Boston is desperate enough to win now.

    159. The Celtics have a couple of other assets they could throw into the pot, namely Ante Zizic and Guerschon Yabusele. Both of those guys have played well overseas this season. Plus they have another unprotected pick from the Nets next year. Boston is definitely the best fit for us. It would be dumb for them to waste some of the assets they’ve collected on Melo, but maybe we’ll catch a break.

    160. I would be very very surprised if the Celtics felt they were one Carmelo away from winning it all.

      Don’t tell them they will also get ruruland annoying everybody at CelticsHub as part of the deal

    161. No to Rivers and Crawford.

      But I can see the beauty in the Clippers 2021 pick.

      Paul and Melo will be just retired and the Clippers will suck really hard for a couple of years.

      I’m tempted but Crawford’s contract is exactly what the Knicks should be avoiding at all costs. Long and expensive contract for a veteran taking away cap space and young player’s minutes.

    162. Sources: LeBron wants management to explore trade options to acquire Carmelo Anthony from the Knicks. A third team would be needed.— Mike Ortiz Jr. (@xOrtiz4x) January 25, 2017

    163. Report: The Knicks are open to trading Carmelo Anthony to the Clippers for a package including Jamal Crawford, JJ Redick or Austin Rivers— NBA SKITS (@NBA_Skits) January 26, 2017

    164. Dang, this might really happen… I have no idea how a trade would work with the Cavs without them giving up Love or Tristan Thompson, which they would be stupid to do.

    165. Shopping Melo around might be a great way to trade off Lee, O’quinn, Jennings, and Luz on the sly.

    166. I don’t know what it means, but this is the 2nd link when you google “nba trade machine”

      it’s not loading, what’s the trade.

    167. @203,204,205:

      <—- grabs popcorn and a drink.

      These turn off events should be something else.

    168. @210, three-way trade between Boston, NYK, LAC.

      Boston gets DAJ and the other teams get nothing. WTF?

    169. Adding Rivers and Reddick is just what we need to make a final push for the playoffs this year.

    170. Lala and the kids were just seen at the airport boarding an airplane for LA. It’s definitely happening now.

    171. man, melo must have really wanted to stay here badly to have his agent get both a NTC and 15% salary bump if he was traded…

      gotta really tip your cap to him for going all in on the new york knicks…hopefully we can ship his ass out of town this week…

    172. i’d be more than happy to work out “whatever” with miss Lala…

      ummmmm….fruity pebbles…oooops – make that ummmmm, honey nut cheerios…

    173. The sun is shining a little bit brighter today.

      Melo to Boston makes so much sense for both teams and him. And, sure, they can have OQ, too. The question is can all parties come to an agreement? However, yeah, to get both they need to pony up either the 2017 or 2018 Brooklyn pick.

      It will be fun to see how hard Lebron pushes for Melo to Cleveland. That seems like such an incredible longshot.

      Btw, don’t trade Kuz!
      :-)

    174. Clippers may want Courtney Lee as well. They actually want some of our players so we can get this done.

    175. Melo and Lee for Rivers, Reddick, Crawford, Johnson and 2 future #1s. Who says no?

    176. Did Doc coach Courtney Lee in Boston? That guy REALLY likes to acquire former players and/or players he coached against regularly.

    177. Clippers may want Courtney Lee as well. They actually want some of our players so we can get this done.

      Better be at least a first rounder in this deal.

    178. Melo and Lee for Rivers, Reddick, Crawford, Johnson and 2 future #1s. Who says no?

      I think that’s the proper assessment of a deal both parties would accept. The question is if Phil can get a second 1st round pick. If he can, then I say definitely. If can’t I say he should continue to shop around.

    179. Yes Doc Rivers did coach Lee in Boston in 2012 (when they traded for him) and 2013.

    180. @229 We might have to throw in a PG to replace Austin Rivers. Would Jennings be included too?

      Melo, Lee, Jennings for

      Rivers, Reddick, Crawford, Johnson and 2 #1s

      How’s that sound?

    181. I don’t see how the clippers match up without sending us both rivers and crawford. in which case, why do it?

    182. You know how great that deal would be for our ability to sign free agents? I can hear the pitch now:

      “Come to New York where we’ll overpay you for your services and when it doesn’t work out in 6 months we’ll trade you to a contender!”

      How can we go wrong with that?

    183. If we manage to slough off Melo’s and Lee’s contracts simultaneously and get two first rounders out of it I’ll pull a Herzog and boil and eat my shoe

    184. @231

      I wanted to hold on to Jennings to trade to Cleveland for a couple of 2nds. But if that’s what it takes then we should do it.

    185. “You know how great that deal would be for our ability to sign free agents? I can hear the pitch now:

      “Come to New York where we’ll overpay you for your services and when it doesn’t work out in 6 months we’ll trade you to a contender!”

      How can we go wrong with that?”

      Genius move by Phil

      Thanks Phil!

    186. i can’t see a trade with the clippers panning out… first rd picks 5 yrs out have some value but it’s very hard to get no current value in return if it involves melo….

      ultimately this has to be a 3-team deal…. i would trade lee instantly for a 2021 1st rd pick tho…

    187. I don’t see how the clippers match up without sending us both rivers and crawford. in which case, why do it?

      Um, because we’re rebuilding. Rivers and Crawford will help us tank harder. You think we’re contending for squat in the next two seasons?

    188. My conspiratorial mind makes me wonder if the reason Rose threw his little bitch fit by going M.I.A. was because he heard on the down low that Phil and Melo had agreed to a potential midseason trade and left him the dust.

      Think about it. All of that mess happened after the Rosen article. Rose finds out through the grapevine that the guy he wanted to form his little “superteam” with is bolting out the door, meaning that the Knicks will rebuild and probably won’t resign him as a result. He feels shafted on a shitty team and pissed he’s missing out on a big contract so he just goes to Chicago in a fit before his agent talks him back to the team.

    189. I am sorry, Rose no shows on the 9th of January and Rosen comes out with his article on the 12th.

      Coincidence? I think not.

    190. Don’t doubt the angle that Melo is doing this because he’s in cahoots with Dolan and is super okay with never winning a championship and wants to be around KP to mentor the youth of the Knicks as we trade out everybody for youth, expiring deals, and picks. *takes pump of asthma medicine*

    191. ambroseck: Public perception of Melo is NOT good.

      Homer fans think their own players are better no matter what unless the team dramatically underperforms. Had you gone on a typical Knicks blog a year ago and asked, “Would you trade Melo for Giannis?” 99% of people would have said “are you nuts? No way!” I mean come on… who could forget the circle jerking around Derrick Rose after we got him? Celtics have a narrower window than it seems at a glance with both Thomas and Bradley on ridiculously cheap deals that expire in summer 2018. I think they will push hard to make an upgrade at the deadline.

      On the other hand, if I’m Jackson, and the best offer I can get from a team Melo accepts is like Marcus Smart and the 2018 Celtics draft pick, I do that deal. It’s worth it just for the extra losses it will help us accumulate. I think we could get a little more than that though whether from Boston or somewhere else especially if we include some of our role players.

    192. If pull this deal off we should look to trade Derrick Rose next. Sacramento would be the perfect location.

    193. I can’t wait until the Clippers trade for Anthony and then put up an identical record as they had before him. I cannot wait for that day.

      I don’t want Blake and I sure as hell don’t expect DeAndre. I’d unload our All-NBA First-Teamer superstar for a pittance: 2 future 1sts, the right to swap a 1st somewhere in the future, and as many 2nd rounders as the Clippers have on the books. Plus I’ll take Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford, because I want the #1 overall pick this offseason.

    194. @293: I don’t get why we would trade Melo for 2 guys back who combined make the same $$ for the same time……because they might make us worse? All for a Clippers #1, which would be what, like the 25th pick?

    195. If the Knicks do a five player for Melo/Lee deal with LA aren’t they first going to need to waive Ron/Ndour/Sasha to create roster slots for those guys? I’d still do it for sure- though I think the Knicks would probably want to find a way to get another first rounder this year before making that deal. Really, if the Knicks are willing to make a trade like that how do the Clippers say no? They have to know they can’t beat Golden State as currently constructed and they need to keep CP3 happy to make sure he doesn’t leave. A CP3, Blake, DJ, Melo, & Lee lineup with basically no bench probably doesn’t beat the Warriors either but it could be interesting- They’d maul Golden State on the boards just like Cleveland did and could certainly put up points themselves.

    196. How long is CP3 out for? It seems to make sense for the Clips to hang on to Rivers until Paul comes back, no?

    197. If the Knicks do a five player for Melo/Lee deal with LA aren’t they first going to need to waive Ron/Ndour/Sasha to create roster slots for those guys?

      How about this trade which would include 2021 and 2023 1st round picks and maybe 2nd round picks? So the value we’d receive would be 22yo rook Brice Johnson, 2021 and 2023 1st round picks, 24yo Rivers, and maybe some 2nd round picks. Meh but it’s probably the best we could do unless Cavs/NYK/Celtics are interested in a 3-way trade. Here would be main Clips roster after trade:

      1: Paul/Jennings
      2: Lee/Holiday
      3: Melo/Kuz
      4: Griffin/Bass
      5: Jordan/Speights

    198. It might pay to have “serious” talks with the Cavs so that the Celtics feel a little pressure to make us an offer.

    199. The clippers would be a great playoff team with melo, fun to watch that’s for sure

      You also thought this about the 2016-17 Knicks, no doubt. How’d that work out for you?

    200. After we trade Carmelo we need to prioritize getting Rubio. He is maybe the most underrated PG in the NBA. I say top 10 but he is at least top 15, he is also 26 and on a reasonable contract. I think a pass first PG would really help both Porzingis’s and Hernangomez’s development. He solves our PG issue long term and makes the possibility of missing one of the PGs in this draft less terrifying.

      As for Lee trades, if the Lakers don’t work out what about Lee to Orlando for Meeks’s expiring contract and Hezonja?

    201. Yo, how the fuck did Klay Thompson make an all-star game this year?

      Here are the Warriors in order of AST/36. Reminder: Klay Thompson is a mother fucking guard.

      Green
      Curry
      West
      Durant
      Iguodala
      Varejao (!)
      Pachulia (!)
      Livingston
      Clark
      Patrick McCaw
      Kevon Fucking Looney (!!!!!!)
      Thompson

      This dude is playing on a team with the best assist numbers in history and he averages TWO assists per 36 minutes. And he’s also 12th on his team in REB/36. 13th in STL/36! 11th in BLK/36! On his own fucking team!

      Who the mother fuck are these voters watching?

    202. I can’t see why the Celtics would trade for Melo. What they need the most right now is rebounding. Of course, Melo is a offensive star and all, and would likely make their scoring better, but his a bad defender right now. Plus, they already have Isaiah Thomas as their resident isolation-star-who-they-have-to-hide-on-defense, so Melo would maybe be a little redundant there. I think his obvious destination is LA, where they really need a guy like him (Cleveland would be interesting, but they don’t have the assets to make it work).

      Of course, if Boston wants to take Melo, giving back that juicy Nets pick, thank you very much! :D

    203. You also thought this about the 2016-17 Knicks, no doubt. How’d that work out for you?

      You compared this roster to one with CP3, Blake and DJ. Just when I think you say smart shit you say this….

    204. I think you’re forgetting that not only did Klay score 37 points in a quarter a couple years back, he’s also a chill ass dude who smokes weed

    205. Klay gets a lot of credit for his defense I guess. I agree it’s pretty harsh on Conley (and CP3 although I’m sure he makes it if healthy) to pick a guy who’s clearly the 4th best guy on his own team over them.

    206. Alternative fact: Melo will take the next team to a title. All he needs is a change of scenery and the right support cast.

    207. So, let me get this straight: everyone knows Melo has a NTC on top of his nearly 30M cap hit (includes the trade kicker), which basically leaves the Clippers and Boston as the only possible destinations. So, these teams know Phil Jackson is stuck with Melo and desperate for a trade, but will – for some unknown reason – *not* fleece Dolan and the 70-year old dumb GM.

      Right.

    208. I also dislikes the selection of Thompson, but I don’t think it was something like the travesty that was leaving Lowry out to make space to Joe effing Jonhson on his last legs in Brooklyn (circa 2013). I thought Klay would kind of “explode” this year (more open looks), but he didn’t. People surely gave him credit for his defense, that’s the only rational reason. And poor Conley. I think he was left out because of how many games he missed (and because of how well Memphis did without him for a stretch). I thought maybe Lillard or McCollum would get some love, but Portland is a dumpster fire on their own right right now, so nah.

    209. i think a 3 teamer with the clips and minny can snag us rubio and a 2021 top 3 protected 1st… which i would do in a heartbeat… it really all depends if minny wants rivers and lee…

    210. After we trade Carmelo we need to prioritize getting Rubio.

      After the Clips deal above, here is the bombshell deal I hope Thibs makes if he strikes out on Chicago trade involving Taj: Noah/Rose/KOQ for Rubio/Jones/Pek/Cole. Of course, Thibs would have to speak to Rose before trade to make sure he’s alright with whatever money he’s prepared to offer plus transitioning eventually to second unit. Here’s our youth picture after dust settles:

      Our high 2017 pick (tank)
      Rubio 26yo
      Tyus Jones 20yo
      Rivers 24yo
      Brice Johnson 22yo
      KP 21yo
      Hernangomez 22yo
      Ron Baker 23yo
      Clips 2021 pick
      Clips 2023 pick
      All of our own picks every year

    211. they’re near the bottom in generating turnovers, getting defensive rebounds and committing fouls.

      This simply implies there is an effort problem.

      This is not so. I think it’s a lack of team quickness. Phil likes big players (for their position) and by and large he has them. Big players are typically not a quick, and thus are not the best at getting steals and drawing fouls.

    212. The Knicks are going to wind up making a Melo trade that’s even worse than the Ewing trade was. I’d rather they just let Melo’s contract run out.

    213. Honestly I’d still rather add than subtract by making a trade for Rubio and not tanking for draft picks 3 or 5 years away.

    214. The Knicks are going to wind up making a Melo trade that’s even worse than the Ewing trade was. I’d rather they just let Melo’s contract run out.

      If we get at least one pick and don’t take on salary past Melo’s deal, it’ll be good.

    215. Please give me a list of contenders who have pgs who can’t shoot.

      We’re not a Melo trade away from contention my friend

    216. Just to complete the fail that this season has been PJ will give away Carmelo for little or nothing in return – because Knicks…

    217. Phil’s Bulls teams got plenty of steals.

      Phil was the coach, not the GM, so this is irrelevant. He didn’t acquire the players he had. Are you actually trying to say this years Knicks have a,lot of quick players?

    218. Larry Sanders just tweeted he wants back in

      have fun on the Kings, Lar

    219. I think Melo would actually help the Clippers. Jamal Crawford and his 49% TS takes 11 FGs a game while doing literally nothing else. Melo is a clear upgrade.

    220. rondo was a pg for some pretty good celtics teams…. and tony parker was never a good 3 pt shooter….

    221. Fair enough, But I still think our current lack of steals is due to the nature of our personnel, not our lack of effort.

    222. I want to get into a time machine and go back to the late 90’s and tell my younger self to appreciate Charlie Ward and Chris Childs more cause the future at PG for the Knicks is going to be much, much worse.

    223. Speaking of 90’s point guards, remember the Derek Harper for Tony Campbell trade? Now THAT was a trade.

    224. Our lack of steals and FTs isn’t an effort thing–it’s because our players are by and large unathletic. Though BJ D-Rose and Melo also show little to no effort on the defensive end.

    225. I agree, Charlie Ward or Chris Childs could probably play better than the current Knicks point guards right now if they suited up

    226. Rubio is pyrite

      Rubio is like a young Rondo. Look at his +/- stats compared to George Hill over previous 5 seasons:

      Rubio: +8.3, +10.9, +12.6, 0.0, +7.3
      George Hill: +.5, +9.7, +4.3, +12.4, +.7

      The SG and SF on Wolves are often initiating the offense much like Butler and Wade in Chicago so Rubio is not a good fit as a starter there and he’s stated he doesn’t want to be a second unit guy. Most important though for Knicks is that he’s still young enough on a decent contract that we could trade him this summer or next season so there isn’t a whole lot of risk there.

    227. They’re both approaching 50 yo but I’m sure right now they could certainly defend better than Rose and Jennings.

    228. Would love Rubio on the Knicks. He’s a great passer, can run the offense, and plays hard on defense. And as stated above he’s still pretty young.

    229. Also Rubio is still quite young and with his high ft% and solid midrange numbers he should eventually develop a consistent 3 point shot. Mainly though adding a top defender at the one would be such a breath of fresh air I could almost care less about his scoring numbers. I think young Rondo is a great comparison. Bonus is, it doesn’t look like Rubio is going to become a cancer later in his career.

    230. Rubio can’t shoot, but he can defend and is a nice passer. Way way better than Rose. Rubio would be here on a 2 year deal and could help the development of KP, Willy, and co.

      The idea here is to look to start to contend in 2-3 years or so, at best.

      Right now, IF a Melo trade goes down, it seems likely that it will be to the Clippers. Minny would make an interesting third team if the Knicks try to somehow flip Melo and someone else (KOQ? Lee?) for Rubio and a 1st rounder (plus some salary trash…yeah, Crawford would likely come this way). The Clips 2021 pick would be a nice get.

    231. Want a crazy stat? Rubio has six technical fouls in his whole career. He’s never been ejected and he’s never committed a flagrant, all while leading the league in STL% in three of his six seasons. 9983 minutes played.

      For comparison, Carmelo has 1 FLAG, 7 TECH and 3 EJECT this season alone.

    232. Would love Rubio on this team even if it mildly hurts the tank (but if we trade Melo + OQ + Lee we’re gonna be losing A LOT more games.) A pass first PG like him might make KP less of an iso scorer and more of an inside-outside, dunk and catch-and-shoot kind of player, which is undoubtedly good for his development. He’s the kind of guy whose productivity isn’t fully captured by the box score, imo.

    233. I wonder if there’s any way we could get Sacramento to take Rose. We could take back afflalo, Ben Mclemore, and maybe Skal. Afflalo’s has just a small guarantee for next year so we could waive him immediately without too much issue I think. mclemore is expiring whereas Skal theoretically has some upside. It’s better than nothing?

      Sac has to send their pick to Philly if they’re bad so they have zero incentive to tank.

    234. If we have any kind of return for D-Rose I’d consider it a win. If we traded him anywhere it’d be to Sacto or Minny.

      I’d make a play for Malachi Richardson if we were going to get any of their young ones–he fills a position of need for us and has played well in limited minutes.

    235. rubio is much more like a late career jason kidd…. rondo is a fair comparison but rondo was much better driving to the basket during his peak…. rubio has very low usage for a pg…

      there are hints he’s getting better… his midrange shots are starting to fall at league average levels… and he’s opportunistic around the basket… all it would take is for him to improve his 3pt shooting which he’s probably not a 23% shooter… and maintain his progress in the midrange… that would easily vault him to top 10 at his position…

    236. To be clear, I’d rather have Rubio and his passing and defense than any of our last pgs since lin, but to think he’s going to learn how to shoot is problematic.

    237. http://www.thescore.com/news/1217775?utm_source=chatbot&utm_medium=messenger&utm_campaign=news

      There’s life after all. I applaud Phil Jackson if he really wants to get rid of the roster. I’m a believer that this team is a playoff team but they really played so bad lately. Get some assets for Melo, clear lee and Noah, if we can snatch Rubio or maybe thibs is dumb enough for Rubio-Noah plus some youngster from wolves like dieng or they want a rose – Dunn or whatever to match the salaries. Let’s do this.

    238. All for a Clippers #1, which would be what, like the 25th pick?

      You’re just not thinking big enough. By 2021/2022 the Clippers will be horrible and old. That pick would be a high lottery pick.

    239. does anyone know the stipulations for trading protected picks? like i’m thinking the 2019 is reserved for the raptors but it’s lotto protected…. is it possible to get a conditional 3 -13 stipulation to get under that for 2019, 2021 and unprotected 2023? because if so… that would be incredibly valuable…

    240. Here’s another crazy stat:

      Kawhi Leonard has played 11,058 minutes in the NBA.

      He has zero technicals, zero ejections, zero flagrants, zero personal-foul disqualifications and zero triple-doubles.

      Brad Stevens has been called for just one technical foul in 291 regular season games.

    241. Was it a knee injury? Just turned it on and he was holding his hip while limping.

    242. very hard to say, it did look like his hip to me, but it looked bad not like a contact injury…landing with his hip locked out maybe. he is one my favorite players to watch, probably top 3.

    243. Shit, if Jokic is hurt the Nuggets will stop losing just like we did when KP got tired and injured.

    244. Right now the Nuggets just tied us in wins (20) so that bodes well for our tank. But Jokic being injured is a no bueno.

    245. Guys I really think it’s just as possible that the Knicks could trade Courtney Lee and some filler deals for Dwayne Wade. Don’t believe the Melo trade hype until he waives that NTC.

    246. Here are some Tank Mathematics:

      The New York Knicks are currently tied with the Portland Trailblazers for the 11th worse record in the NBA. Though this doesn’t put us safely in Ntilikina rage (4-8th pick range) there is very good news to suggest a further trend downward. Of the other 11 teams with equal or worse records, the Knicks are tied with two other teams (Lakers and Kings) for the 5th worse record in the past ten games (3-7). Every other team has advanced major ground on us in that span, with most either playing .500 (Suns, Mavericks, Trailblazers) or even winning basketball (Sixers, Heat, and Timberwolves). If this trend continues the Knicks could very well be the 6th worse team in the NBA by the end of the 2016-17 season.

    247. One, why in the hell would we want Dwayne Wade?

      Two, the agreement has already been worked out. Phil isn’t making these overtures without acknowledgement from Melo that he’d waive his NTC. Its why Melo and his people haven’t said shit about the trade rumors.

      You guys have to do a better job of reading between the lines here.

    248. Melo not waiving that NTC. The unicorn has come and left, like Linsanity, might as well trade him for another player of value for win-now plus a first rounder.

    249. Melo already said yes. All of this posturing in the media is a ruse. He and Phil have already worked out an agreement. The real devil is in the details of the trade. What can Phil get for Melo? That’s the question.

    250. Melo not waiving that NTC. The unicorn has come and left, like Linsanity, might as well trade him for another player of value for win-now plus a first rounder.

      This is my response.

    251. I think the point is that Melo already agreed to waive the NTC to certain teams. Phil isn’t making random explorations.

    252. The one sure thing about this proposed trade is that, no matter what it is, this blog will complain about it. After all, most people here think Phil is a terrible GM, despite him doing many things people here have asked (not trading draft choices and taking risks on young players). Now he’s actually wanting to trade Melo for youth and picks; but whatever he does, I’m sure it won’t be enough.

    253. @320

      I totally agree. You can see it in how the whining has shifted from the complaint that Phil will never trade Melo to the complaint that he won’t get anything decent in return. You can already see it in the moaning about picking up bad contracts, when its a given that we have to in order to match salaries. You can already see it in the proposition that this team should keep Melo for the rest of the season despite the fact that his trade value will only diminish with more time.

      As someone who has argued with half of this blog that Phil’s mission isn’t complete this entire deal doesn’t come as a surprise to me. It was clear he was ready to move on from Melo a while ago, and will now try to accumulate picks to rebuild with. And, like you said, it won’t be enough for the usual cast of characters. But they seem like a bunch that’s perennially dissatisfied, even when they get what they want. So be it. I, for one, will enjoy the prospect of an actual Knicks future for once.

    254. I think a good 40-60% of this board would be very happy with a Melo trade so long as no assets are given up

    255. @322

      When you say assets what do you mean? For me the only assets worth keeping are KP, Willy and our draft picks. Everyone else’s status is negotiable.

    256. When you say assets what do you mean? For me the only assets worth keeping are KP, Willy and our draft picks. Everyone else’s status is negotiable.

      By assets I mean: giving up draft picks (even 2nds), KP, Willy (they’re not moving though) or our one solidly moveable contract, KOQ. I’m fine with packaging in KOQ so long as it gets us more assets in return (a pick or a young player.) Any other player I’m fine with them throwing in for no reason at all because their contracts stink.

      so long as we’re not giving up picks or young ones I don’t think most will care.

    257. @324

      I agree with you. I want:

      At least a second rounder for Jennings
      At least a first rounder for Rose (if not we can keep him for the tank)
      A first rounder for O’Quinn

      I’d add Holiday, Kuz, Noah, Thomas, etc. in that mix to sweeten the pot.

    258. I’ve been plenty critical of Phil but if he can pull this off and get a real rebuild going I’ll be very happy. That’s all I ask for: the CHANCE for something better than a team with a first round playoff exit ceiling.

      That’s Phil’s chance for salvaging something out of his tenure. Build something here that will outlast his own reign as GM. I’m getting a little bit excited!

    259. Melo leaving is so important for the tank that the bar for an “okay” trade is crazy low here. Taking back only two shitty players on bad contracts would be a contextual win here, as at least two shitty players for Melo would make the Knicks worse and would also begin the fire sale. For it to be actually impressive as its own trade, we’ll have to see what kind of picks come to the Knicks. Hopefully they get something good. We shall see!

      The best thing about Melo being dealt is that the tank could commence in full measure, and they can start dealing Jennings, Lee, etc.

    260. The pressure is also on the Clippers too. Its why this news leaking out is so positive for Phil’s agenda. Doc Rivers is on the hot seat to make it past the second round in a stacked Western Conference playoff race. Clippers fan want him to make the deal. Chris Paul definitely wants him to make the deal and would be very upset come free agency if he didn’t. For that reason LA is the perfect destination for Melo.

    261. Also, complaining about your teammates to the media is bad, but complaining about your teammates on Instagram is okay? Rajon Rondo is a weird guy.

    262. Also, complaining about your teammates to the media is bad, but complaining about your teammates on Instagram is okay? Rajon Rondo is a weird guy.

      I’d actually defend it. Butler’s and Wade’s comments were on the offensive, and Rondo’s were on the defensive. Rondo called them out for calling him and his teammates out. I get that. He’s saying, “This isn’t okay to initiate.” The initiation is the main problem, not the defensiveness.

      And I think that Rondo is generally an asshole.

    263. Once you air out your team’s dirty laundry everything said afterwards is fair game. So I have no issue with what Rondo wrote on Instagram. Of course, with that said, Rondo should be careful to throw stones living in that big glass house of his.

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